/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19268413]

Did any other author piss off the communists more than this guy?

[Anonymous No.19268419]

Trotsky. The greatest enemy of any passionate communist is another passionate communist with slightly different beliefs.

[Anonymous No.19268449]

>>19268413
stirner is a communist

[Anonymous No.19268703]

>>19268449
retard

[Anonymous No.19268733]

>>19268703
oh no nevermind he’s a based anti-commie. the ego and its own is just him listing off all of your vague resentments against communism

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19268753]

<- This is Stirner advocating communism as he sees it. The Marxist tanky approach will never bring up humans ready for it.

[Anonymous No.19268758]

>>19268413 art of the deal
By trumpski.

[Anonymous No.19268779]

>>19268758
This is true, the cold ear was actually going very strong until Donald j. Trump published his magnum opus and completely broke the spirit of the communist party. He literally saved America and destroyed communism with his staggering dialectic.Not everyone can bring down an entire state with a single book. Didn’t even need to cause a war, it just demoralized the communists to such a degree that they feel to their knees.

[Anonymous No.19268821]

>>19268449
egoism is a form of individualism, arguably one of the most extreme aspects. it is inherently anticommunist which is a collectivist ideology.

>>19268753
pointing out a fact like this isn't advocating communism. take it to its logical conclusion, the most able laborer has greater power than the do nothings as shown by the pareto principle.

[Anonymous No.19268869]

>>19268821
>egoism is a form of individualism
not only did stirner never mention “egoism”, -isms are fickle descriptors especially in the sense that you mean to use them

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19268896]

>>19268821
He critiques socialists because he cares for the ideal. Communism is an as yet achieved utopia

[Anonymous No.19269119]

>>19268413
anyone that argues for explicit superiority of one group over another

[Anonymous No.19269130]

>>19268821
>it is inherently anticommunist which is a collectivist ideology
Implying bending over backwards for my boss is individualistic. Stirner wasn't a capitalist either, he was just a regular asshole and an edgy brand of socialist.

[Anonymous No.19269162]

>>19268753
>implying Stirner would ever promote workers rallying behind a spook for any reason other than to destroy another spook's influence and power in people's minds

[Anonymous No.19269206]

>>19268413
>Did any other author piss off the communists more than this guy?
Literally most of them pissed them off more than Stirner. If you ever read Lenin or Trotsky, for example, you would notice that they don't even recognize the existence of Stirner and his discourse, but they spend most of the text on SEETHING about Kautsky,

>>19268821
>pointing out a fact like this isn't advocating communism. take it to its logical conclusion, the most able laborer has greater power than the do nothings as shown by the pareto principle.
And that contradicts Communism... how? Somehow I don't remember the specific place in Marx, Engles or Lenin where they say "Communism is about forcing everyone to be the same and exterminating any element of difference and inequality". Would you refresh my memory, please?

>>19269119
Communists argue for explicit superiority of laborers over exploiters. So does Stirner, btw.

[Anonymous No.19270333]

>>19268753
hes saying that you don't need a communist state, just collectively strip the rich from resources and its done

[Anonymous No.19270580]

>>19270333
>communist state
The absence of a state is Communism

[Anonymous No.19270673]

>>19270580
That's Anarchism.

[Anonymous No.19270691]

>>19270673
Marxists are socialists
Anarchists are also socialists
They both want communism. The statists claim the name Communism for their political parties, but they’ve yet to claim that they’ve achieved full communism. Got it?

[Anonymous No.19270710]

>>19268779
Not sure if you're serious, but trump's negotiations with new york policy makers in the late 70's actually did jumpstart neoliberalism which the USSR had no way of countering

[Anonymous No.19270757]

Here's a redpill for you guys: we already live in a union of egoists. The whiny faggots who say otherwise are probably just the property of a more free egoist

[Anonymous No.19270917]

>>19270757
Moron. A union of a tiny minority who feed the majority endless spooks is s shit world.
That’s why we like the schoolteacher of maximum forehand and not your elites and their zombie troops

[Anonymous No.19270931]

>>19268753
Lmao doesn't even know how to spell tankie

[Anonymous No.19271232]

>>19269206
Reminder that Marx & Engels seethed so much over Stirner that their writings about him are larger than his entire ouvre.
Also
>Would you refresh my memory, please?
Not advocating doesn't mean contradicting. Stirner's ideas fundamentally clash against the fundamental ideas of Marxism/Socialism.
>>19270691
So, by this logic, Socialism is also communism, and socialist-led countries are also communist, even if the workers don't own the means of production? Is Socialism/Communism/Anarchism some sort of holy trinity now, where one is not the other but all three are one?

[Anonymous No.19271260]

>>19271232
Not exactly. by this “logic” socialism is aiming for communism, or claims to be. (Soc-dems lose sight of the goal like any other statist form for the heights of capitalism)
Again. Socialists countries want to become communist someday. Global statelessness has clearly not happened. Equating this with the Catholic inability to count is ridiculous though.

[Anonymous No.19271461]

>>19268413
> try to find a writer close to Nietzsche
> hear about Stirner
> get excited about such bold ideas as egoism
> writes about ego in context of state and religion and little bit in context of family and nothing more
Am I missing something? He was a tax-avoider LARPing as Egoist? Why was he so naive? How do I live as an egoist if I'm a father? A husband? A brother? A son? How does ego come in play from evolutionary standpoint? Humans evolved to be a social animals, what is ego then? So many questions but he writes about MUH RELIGION, MUH STATE, MUH POLITICS.

[Anonymous No.19271492]

>>19271461
nvm, this thread is also full of you faggots
>MUH COMMUNISM
>MUH SOCIALISM
>BUT BUT HE WAS INDIVIDUALIST AND SOCIALISM IS NOT...
just fuck off. who gives a shit about all that. To say fuck religion, fuck state is such a nobrainer for an egoist, why did this asshole write 350 pages about it AAAAAAHH I HATE HIM SO MUCH. Thinking about doing maths instead of philosophy meme as a hobby.

[Anonymous No.19271506]

>>19271461
literally read Marx and Engels, they solve this exact problem with him and the other Young Hegelians, especially in The Germany Ideology

[Anonymous No.19271507]

>>19270757
don't project onto others to cope. egoists can't be trusted or have any genuine or meaningful relationships with people - everything they do is transactional
(I'm talking about unironic egoists, most are edgy LARPers)

[Anonymous No.19271509]

>>19271506
also The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State

[Anonymous No.19271518]

>>19271461
>>19271492

[Anonymous No.19271549]

>>19268753
>Stirner advocating communism as he sees it
basic game theory destroys this idealistic path to communism. scabs will do it for $1 more. Globalization has ensured that someone somewhere will have whatever input industry needs. And soon much will be fully automated.

[Anonymous No.19271565]

>>19271549
>scabs will do it for $1 more. Globalization has ensured that someone somewhere will have whatever input industry needs.
this is still a testament to the power of labour
>And soon much will be fully automated.
if labour decides it

[Anonymous No.19271591]

>>19271549
Also, if labor decides, the dollar can mean nothing. Backed by nothing as it is.
How’s your game now?

[Anonymous No.19271609]

>>19271565
>>19271591
You're missing the point: humans are not good and will not unite against their owners. They will cave, every time. The inherent self-interest of any animal makes communism impossible, as true altruism is genetic suicide.

[Anonymous No.19271620]

>>19271609
“Good”? The real pivot is knowledge. Will they learn when they hear? Enough of them have brain enough to get the message. Their numbers are growing

[Anonymous No.19271623]

>>19268821
>arguably one of the most extreme
I'd argue THE most extreme

[Anonymous No.19271631]

>>19271609
that's not a point that's just clear cope for your capitalist dialectic being turned against you

[Anonymous No.19271654]

>>19270710
I told you! An absolute genius!
Not many such cases!

[Anonymous No.19271686]

>>19268413
“The communists” as in actual working class people? Probably Saul/Paul has pissed off more actual communists.

As for nomenklatura and bourgeois intelligentsia: that’d be Lenin (for or against).

Stirner’s citations and impact factor are low low low. Also communists are famous for pissing themselves off. Stirner is a communist now? As his ice cream shop shows: yes.

[Anonymous No.19271722]

>>19271232
>their writings about him are larger than his entire ouvre
>Not advocating doesn't mean contradicting. Stirner's ideas fundamentally clash against the fundamental ideas of Marxism/Socialism.
>There's no contradiction, but there is a contradiction!
I start to really get the impression that you're getting angry about books you've never read.

>>19271609
>The inherent self-interest of any animal makes communism impossible, as true altruism is genetic suicide.
You probably missed to point where workers unite against exploitation specifically when it it becomes blatantly in their own self-interests. Marx assumes zero selfless altruism about the Communist formation.

[Anonymous No.19271814]

>>19271722
>Marx assumes zero selfless altruism about the Communist formation.
That's smart of him, but still misses the dynamic I'm talking about. At a certain point of tension between workers and owners, workers will "betray the cause" for their individual benefit. This can happen in a large variety of ways, subtle and explicit. I would point to obvious and current examples, but that would invite retarded tangential attacks from you and your buddies. I have no interest in converting you and should have held out for the Butterfly response

[Anonymous No.19271825]

>>19271814
>This can happen in a large variety of ways, subtle and explicit.
Correct.

>At a certain point of tension between workers and owners, workers will "betray the cause" for their individual benefit.
How do you know that it will always happen regardless of circumstances? That's sort of an absurd claim.

> I would point to obvious and current examples, but that would invite retarded tangential attacks from you and your buddies.
...you do realize that I (and the presumed buddies) have probably read Lenin and do know a thing or two about the historical opportunism, right?

[Anonymous No.19271831]

>>19271814
>That's smart of him
That's also quite an illustration for my point: you never read any Marx.

[Anonymous No.19271877]

>>19268413
He is a pseud and both commies and capitalists wish his fans would go away and bother someone else. Basically he makes everyone seethe which is kinda based.

[Anonymous No.19272202]

>>19268753
>misunderstanding stirner this much
you're more retarded than i thought

[Anonymous No.19272210]

>>19271260
The absolute state of this retard

[Anonymous No.19272254]

Didn't Engels draw the original Stirner?

[Anonymous No.19272255]

>>19271461
>wants someone to tell you how to be an egoist on every aspect of your life
dude, its not hard

[Anonymous No.19272273]

>>19268419
Lmao

[Anonymous No.19272279]

>>19272202
>can’t read

>>19272210
>Also can’t read

Samefag?

[Anonymous No.19272299]

>>19272254
Yup. The OP is a deviation with a ridiculous smirk. The man was mild, good natured and polite.

[Anonymous No.19272316]

>>19268413
Probably Slavoj Zizek, he's a commie but he pisses off the other commies.

[Anonymous No.19272454]

>>19271831
>you never read any Marx.
He says that like it's a shameful thing. lmao

[Anonymous No.19272901]

>>19270917
>shit world
Spooked. Get free

[Anonymous No.19272908]

>>19268419
>trotsky
>communist

[Anonymous No.19272985]

If anything Communism would be the peak Egoist system. You can demand people to collectivize their give shit and give it to you and if they refuse they're considered hoarding bourgeois.

[Anonymous No.19272987]

>>19268413

[Anonymous No.19272992]

>>19272316
Lefties hating zizek is so funny because it all boils down to his lukewarm social conservatism and a lack of cultural signalling. The even more brain dead left even hates Noam Chomsky lol, they really never learn

[Anonymous No.19273022]

>>19272992
A lot of them don't like Noam Chomsky because he didn't like the right wing authorianism of the Soviet Union and Chomsky thinks violent revolutions to establish proletariat dictatorships do not end well which is pretty well established. It always ends up some lord of the flies situation.

[Anonymous No.19273094]

Is Stirner worth reading or not? He keeps being memed here but what's he about?

[Anonymous No.19273137]

>>19273094
>Is Stirner worth reading or not?
no. even if you're an "egoist", you can just copy the memes

[Anonymous No.19273270]

>>19272901
>le meme word misused
>foiled once again!
Spooked bootlickers are scared bootlickers

[Anonymous No.19273279]

>>19273094
He’s great. A must read. Hope you don’t misinterpret him like all these partisans

[Anonymous No.19273291]

>>19268753
He is advocating anarchy you dipshit.

[Anonymous No.19273343]

>>19273291
Anarchism is the method to communism
Hence the anarchist school of thought anarcho-communism

[Anonymous No.19273427]

I will never read Marx. I will support anyone, anywhere so long as they are against Marxism. I will fight and die in the street against Marx, who I will NEVER read. I am one of billions of people who will do the same. Fuck you. You will NEVER win. EVER. Your twisted religion around Marx is pathetic. I will never, ever, ever let you win. I have no other political view. I am only against Marx and Marxism. You cannot win. All of your efforts are futile. If you even could gain power, you would fail. Again and again. You have water your life reading Marx. You have discredited yourself, permanently, for ever being a Marxist. You have no status and no power. You never will. Have sex

[Anonymous No.19273444]

>>19273343
One single flavor of anarchism is Anarcho-Communism. Anarchism is not an ideology, it is simply the absence of government. AnCom is a communist infiltration of anarchism. It is, of all anarchist modes, the most hypocritical and incoherent, which is saying quite a lot. The popularity of AnCom is fueled entirely by fat, ignorant posers who want to co-opt an idea that is in direct opposition to communism and then force out everyone other than the AnCom. Both ideas are moronic, so we should welcome the tension and examine it. Communism will never occur. Anarchism is, ironically, the reality we currently live in and will always live in. It was always here and will always be here. Power is only power. Government is an artifice, now and forever. Nothing needs to be done. There is no revolution except the personal revolution. Communists will never understand this

[Anonymous No.19273482]

>>19273343
Communism is totalitarian inherently. Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.19273486]

>>19273482
capitalism is inherently totalitarian

[Anonymous No.19273489]

>>19273486
>implying I'm not paleo

[Anonymous No.19273493]

>>19270580
>>19270673
Educated by the dodging that reactionaries of all sorts and of all times have done of liberty and equality, we are wise to place next to these two terms an expression of their exact value.

We thus place, next to these two terms: liberty and equality, two equivalents of which the clear significance cannot give rise to ambiguity, and we say: “We want liberty, that is to say, anarchy, and equality, that is to say, communism.”

Anarchy today is an attack, a war against all authority, against all power, against all States. In future societies, anarchy will be a defense, the prevention brought against the reestablishment of all authority, of all power, of any State: full and entire liberty of the individual who, freely and pushed only by his needs, by his tastes and his liking, combines with other individuals in groups or partnership; free development of partnership which federates itself with others in the commune or in the neighborhood; free development of communes which federate themselves in the region – and so on: regions in the nation, nations in humanity.

Communism, the question that occupies us most specifically today, is the second point of our ideal revolutionary.

Communism today is still an attack; it is not the destruction of authority, but the taking, in the name of humanity, of all the wealth that exists on the globe. In the society of the future, communism will be the enjoyment of all existing wealth, by all men and according to the principle: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs, that is to say: from each to each according to his will.

[Anonymous No.19273496]

>>19273493
You should kill yourself for being retarded.

[Anonymous No.19273497]

>>19273444
Go out more. Best if out of am*rica

[Anonymous No.19273500]

>>19273496
>y-you should kill yourself!
It's a quote.
Read books.

[Anonymous No.19273502]

>>19270580
But capitalism can also exist without a state. if 2 people wash up on an island they exchange goods with each other to survive. for example one person fishes and exchanges fish for berries. Is that communism?

[Anonymous No.19273520]

>>19273427
Anon I hate to break it to you, but you have to read and understand the thing that you hate in order to hate it properly and announce it properly. Otherwise it's just "me good them bad" thinking and talking which makes you look like an idiot and achieves nothing. Go to a library or buy a cheap copy of The Communist Manifesto off amazon or ebay or something and read the thing before saying how proud you are for not reading it and hating it by default.

Same applies to the bible or quran or bhagavad gita. You have to read at least part of them before forming an opinion that other people will listen to. Educate yourself or stay retarded

[Anonymous No.19273533]

>>19273500
The only books I read are technical manuals.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19273536]

>>19273444
>AnCom is a communist infiltration of anarchism.
No.
All stripes of anarchism aim for this statelessness.
Syndicalism, feminism, primitivism, futuristim, even capitalism, though it pretends capitalism isn’t the life’s blood of the state and inherent corruption
You get and ancom who says he wants a Soviet style state or whatever, and you do not have an ancom in front of you. Simple as. Write this down on the wall next to your computer.
>both ideas are moronic
See how much you have invested in the truth of it? Why the schizo post?
>…we will always live in…
“Nothing ever changes!” Nonsense. Live free or die.
> There is no revolution except the personal revolution. Communists will never understand this
I believe it. People ought to start with Stirner and grow a spine. Tankies will never accept this. *communists* cannot come about till we achieve the state of statelessness.

>>19273482
You’re probably thinking of BOLSHEVISM, if not JOUCHE, or East Berlin. Back of the class.

>>19273493
>Anarchy today is an attack, a war against all authority
Well it’s piss poor praxis. Anarchism is a challenge to all unjustifiable hierarchies not an eradication of them all.

>>19273502
Sharing isn’t capitalism.

[Anonymous No.19273548]

>>19273536
You should kill yourself.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19273553]

>>19273548
No.
I should take care of myself. Life is good.
Have you read The Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony? You should.

[Anonymous No.19273571]

>>19273553
No. I will be reading only practical instructional books on blacksmithing, sewing, welding, soil science, agriculture, and tax evasion.

[Anonymous No.19273602]

>>19273520
I get the "try to understand what you hate" point, but is the Communist Manifesto really worth reading for refuting marxists? 95% of the time, they're just going to cry about how you haven't read Das Kapital, and claim the maifesto isn't really what marxists want.

[Anonymous No.19273611]

>>19273553
What's Updike?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19273619]

>>19273571
Oh neat. Share your books some thread, please.

In discussing the differences between eros and necessity, Calasso quotes Plato here
> "those who study astronomy and other sciences of the necessary, when they see that what is, is so out of necessity and not out of any plan conceived by some will to accomplish the good."
Plato, unlike Epicurus, sees this necessity as scientific, practical instructions, and The Good as the spiritual, emotional, eros.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19273627]

>>19273611
Same old thing. Anonymous doesn’t want me to answer this though because it’s too blog post for him.
Anons are allowed of course.

[Anonymous No.19273647]

>>19273619
google it

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19273659]

>>19273647
>On a literature board
>Won’t share book
I am disappoint

[Anonymous No.19273710]

>>19268413
>communism's end result is that mankind is equal in ragamuffinhood (paraphrased)
gommies seething to this day. Max Stirner was a proto-Reich in himself.
>>19268449
t. retard who hasn't read EaiO

[Anonymous No.19273717]

>>19273659
oh look the attentionwhore is here being retarded yet again
get a fucking job or push out some children or something you stupid cunt

[Anonymous No.19273760]

>>19273710
paraphrased from your wet dream last night?

[Anonymous No.19273805]

>>19273536
>Sharing isn’t capitalism.
Not SHARING you commie. Exchanging goods. I exchange 1 fish for 5 berries with my buddy. If I were sharing I would give it away for free. But since resources on this island are limited I need berries and he needs fish. If I took berries from him without providing anything in return we would both starve!

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19273819]

>>19273805
Gift exchanging is sharing. In kind economy isn’t capitalist.
Also the fish and berries are just there for the taking.

[Anonymous No.19273844]

>>19273819
Ok then how about this example. I have gold bars and I give 1 gold bar to a person every day to help me plow my field. He then uses that gold to buy food and pay another person to sleep in is house. at no point is the state involved. Is this capitalism?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19273851]

>>19273844
Here. This might help.

[Anonymous No.19273860]

>>19273851
Its called cursoe economics phoneposter

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19274033]

>>19273860
>Rothbard

[Anonymous No.19274767]

>>19273710
>thinks stirner was le epic proto fascist
>refers to it as the ego instead of the unique
do /lit/ards really?

[Anonymous No.19275075]

Stirner makes even anarchists seethe

[Anonymous No.19275111]

>Nietzsche was banned in Soviet Union since 1923 on proposal of Lenin's Wife Nadezhda Krupskaya. All works were placed on the list of forbidden books and kept in libraries only for restricted, authorized use.

[Anonymous No.19275126]

>>19275111
Hmmm I wonder why?

[Anonymous No.19275130]

>>19274767
He was a proto-fascist, not in the German sense but the Italian one.