Alternatives to nihilism

[Anonymous No.19257296]

Please, give me a compelling alternative to nihilism. I've got a long life ahead of me and I can't live like this, but I don't have the will to end it yet.
Everyone except me seems to have something animating them, none of it convinces me, but I'm jealous.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19257309]

>>19257296
It’s not rocket science.

[Anonymous No.19257326]

nigga just live your life

[Anonymous No.19257337]

>>19257309
I get what Kubrick is saying here, but what now? Okay, there's no inherent universal meaning, you have to make that up as you go, but where do I start?

[Anonymous No.19257342]

>>19257326
Part of me wants to go full Napoleon, but Napoleon had some kind of ethos. How do I capture that?

[Anonymous No.19257357]

>>19257342
for you, self-reflection. try reading how to win friends and influence people. as for finding meaning, get involved in your community and find people to love.

[Anonymous No.19257365]

I agree with butterfly. Epicureanism is the only available path. I don't consider pleasure to be the same as "meaning" but it is at least something

[Anonymous No.19257366]

>>19257296
We fight! We fight the new world order. For us the choice is simple: No retreat, No surrender.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19257370]

>>19257337
https://youtu.be/hBWDIzHldPg

[Anonymous No.19257374]

>>19257337
I think "make your own meaning" is ridiculous and impossible at some point of examination.
On the other hand, here is a Cioran quote:
> However disabused one may be, it is impossible to live without any hope at all. We always keep one, unwittingly, and this unconscious hope makes up for all the explicit others we have rejected, exhausted.

[Anonymous No.19257394]

>>19257309
Can my self discovered meaning be... anything?

[Anonymous No.19257409]

>>19257296
advaita

buddhism

[Anonymous No.19257411]

>>19257374
Only in death does life have any meaning. Our time to shine will soon be at hand. Now is the time to prepare our bodies and minds for the trial ahead. The writing is on the wall. We've seen glimpses of the future. Soon we will have the opportunity to make our last stand against and die the beautiful death in a final act of defiance.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19257412]

>>19257394
Satisfying. Content? Happy, at any rate.

Do you need a mission in life? I have one. I talk of it often enough.

[Anonymous No.19257436]

>>19257296
the power of now

[Anonymous No.19257512]

>>19257411
Copeslave

[Anonymous No.19258464]

>>19257374
This is true but the knowledge that all of my hopes have only led to disappointment makes it seem less comforting than the quote implies

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19258570]

You can't create meaning.

Existentialism is a form of humanism adapted as a coping mechanism for modernity and a divisive excusal from participation in sociopolitical life.

You can reconstrue meaning and its production as an immanent process but it mostly makes the project of self-creation in existentialist philosophy superfluous.

[Anonymous No.19258595]

>>19257296
You live Post-God world bro. We are all fucked and there are no solid copes like God.

Read The Trouble with Being Born or Stoics.

>>19258570
Hello oldfag, I have read somewhere that you were a big brained neokantian scholar? Are you the same Deep and Edgy?

[Anonymous No.19258611]

>>19257309
based
I'd like to add though, just because something is simple it doesn't mean that it's easy. People should expect that it will be a struggle, but it is very much worth it.

[Anonymous No.19258617]

>>19257412
what is your mission?

[Anonymous No.19258624]

>>19258617
Attention whoring and derailing threads on /lit/ as a 50 years old dyke minimum wageslave with no girlfriend or family.

[Anonymous No.19258765]

>>19257512
Do all you cowards even smoke copium?
t. viper

[Anonymous No.19258884]

>>19257296
If you do not believe in anything your life will be meaningless. Principles do not hold up, because they are just principles. If you believe in honor, why would you believe in honor? If you believe in justice, why do you believe in justice? If you believe in compassion, why do you believe in compassion? With nothing to elevate these concepts, to tell you why these things matter, you will not be able to justify them. You will simply think you are chasing a worthless ideal because you're stupid. And in fact this is what this nihilistic society believes, that if you chase any ideals you are stupid. Of course these nihilists would love to believe in justice and honor and compassion and all these other pretty words, but without a higher belief to sustain them, there is no point. Why shouldn't you exploit people and make them miserable for your advantage? Because it's wrong? Why is it wrong? If nothing but this world matters, then why shouldn't you exploit others and make them miserable for your advantage? Actually, why not do it for any reason at all? This is why having a spirituality matters, because it gives you this answer, it gives you a pillar you can hold on to when these noble beliefs get you ridiculed and make you fail in this life, because they inevitably will.
>>19257337
>(celebrity's out of touch advice)
>where do I start?
go where the rich people are and make friends with them

[Anonymous No.19259108]

>>19257296
>>19257337
You don't make it up, you discover it. For me, I found that writing made me feel fulfilled and properly engaged. Same with outdoor labour in small doses--say, a weekend of chainsawing or building something. Likewise, developing yourself into a leader in your spheres of influence in virtuous and creative ways so that you have a positive effect on other people's lives. Things like this aren't something you set out to do for their own sake necessarily, but things which, when you happen to do them, you recognize that they nourish your mind and your soul and give you the "animation" you need to sculp a meaningful life for yourself.

[Anonymous No.19259150]

>>19258464
I think Cioran is implying the same thing now that I think about it

[Anonymous No.19259191]

>>19258884
>Why shouldn't you exploit people and make them miserable for your advantage? Because it's wrong? Why is it wrong? If nothing but this world matters, then why shouldn't you exploit others and make them miserable for your advantage? Actually, why not do it for any reason at all? This is why having a spirituality matters
How long is it going to take for people to understand that altruism is an evolved genetic strategy? Sociopathy is the same.
There's nothing mystical about any of these things

[Anonymous No.19259211]

i wish we had at least some 20th century romanticism remaining, i would pan slav so fucking hard, there would be a purpose and goal including me above myself, today its nothing more than a larp

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19259228]

>>19258617
Contributing to a major societal shift.
Even if we fail and it looks like the psychopaths will take us to extinction, I will be happy at my end.

[Anonymous No.19259265]

>>19259228
Good luck doing that on this board lol

[Anonymous No.19259325]

>>19257296
Absurdism. Read "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Camus.

[Anonymous No.19259390]

>open thread
>first reply is butterfly
>close thread

[Anonymous No.19259396]

positive nihilism

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19259407]

>>19259390
>open thread
>first reply is Stanley Kubrick

[Anonymous No.19259408]

>>19259191
Mysticism has been an essential part of human life until the industrial era. Altruism is a vague word, because it's a descriptor of actions, it's not a descriptor of the principles that move someone toward altruism. Of course human beings are social animals and evolved social traits, but the way these traits endure the challenges of this world is through a spiritual path. To what extent are you going by your social animal instincts when you die or you ruin your life for the sake of ideals? If this all boiled down to a vague social instinct, people would always have been content just posturing the values that back altruistic behavior, without actually committing in any way to it, which is what people do today because we value one's image above one's actions. This is the social animal instinct at work.
Nihilism has always been an issue throughout the history of mankind, people were always challenged by the world because the world is harsh and full of corruption, it is indifferent to one's principles, it doesn't care about justice, but good people stood firm on their principles because they believed in something higher. Without this belief, principles die out. Even if someone keeps behaving the right way he will have no choice but to know that his actions are futile, and his hopeless altruism becomes a form of suicide. Having a spiritual groundwork is the only way to really, truly believe in the noblest things such as justice.

[Anonymous No.19259442]

long answer >>19259426

[Anonymous No.19259483]

>>19257296
I have this quote hanging over my bed.
It's the single most helpful sentence I have ever read in my life.

[Anonymous No.19259787]

>>19259396
No such thing

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19259894]

>>19259787
It just means he’s sure of nihilism

[Anonymous No.19259912]

>>19259894
What is your response to pessimism, Butterfly? Seriously enquiring, we have never interacted on here.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19259954]

>>19259912
A generally negative inclination to avoid. It’s one thing to guard yourself from disappointment, but it’s not healthy to believe everything will end poorly.
Life normally turns out ambiguous episodes. Improvements, or simply adjustments, can always be made.

[Anonymous No.19259966]

>>19257296
>Please, give me a compelling alternative to nihilism. I've got a long life ahead of me and I can't live like this, but I don't have the will to end it yet.

Jesus was the only One that ever raised the dead, and He shouldn’t have done it. He thrown everything off balance. If He did what He said, then it’s nothing for you to do but throw away everything and follow Him, and if he didn’t, then it’s nothing for you to do but enjoy the few minutes you got left the best way you can—by killing somebody or burning down his house or doing some other meanness to him.

No pleasure but meanness.

[Anonymous No.19259973]

>>19259191
>How long is it going to take for people to understand that altruism is an evolved genetic strategy?

It's pretty to think so.

[Anonymous No.19259996]

>>19259228
>Contributing to a major societal shift
I request explication. How would this societal shift grant us meaning? Do you believe there is a possibility of a future that is meaningful? I have trouble seeing how any action we commit now can be meaningful, because there is no meaning coming in the end, when the universe dies.
Much easier to accept your Epicureanism when it's not so lofty

[Anonymous No.19260001]

>>19259973
It's not pretty or ugly. Is a bee hive "good" and a cannibalistic spider "bad"?
It's all nothing. Genes playing iterative games

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19260020]

>>19259996
>How would this societal shift grant us meaning?
I do not want humanity to go extinct. There’s so much potential.
>Do you believe there is a possibility of a future that is meaningful?
To explore, grow and learn.
There’s no inherent meaning, only the cornucopia of purposes. Be a humble Epicurean gardener or an explorer of space, a demigod like race. I don’t even believe the universe “dies”. More is what I want.

[Anonymous No.19260025]

>>19257296
You should read the myth of Sisyphus.

[Anonymous No.19260123]

>>19257296
I think you're a moron and should be replaced

[Anonymous No.19260137]

There is no way out. You can only go deeper.

[Anonymous No.19260153]

>>19260020
>I don’t even believe the universe “dies”.
That's where our difference is then. Neither of us can prove it either way. My new theory: the Big Bang may have been a suicide attempt by a sentient universe. It is immortal but doesn't want to be. Intelligence re-emerges, tries, fails, and attempts to end it all. So with that possibility, all efforts we make will be erased, and thus meaningless

[Anonymous No.19260163]

>>19257296

There's no going back, friend. Once you understand the truth, you always will. Oh, you might socialize in this-or-that church and get the happy social animal behaviors/feel-good chemicals flowing, but privately you'll always know that this is all arbitrary and you just rot in the ground.

[Anonymous No.19260199]

>>19260153
Damn that's cool theory
Which other thinker you're merging Mainländer with? Just the other day I wrote this theory on a paper for keks and now you're saying the same thing.

[Anonymous No.19260209]

>>19260163
"I don't have illusions. I'm one of those people who see through to nothing."

[Anonymous No.19260310]

>>19260163
How could anyone possibly "know" this?

[Anonymous No.19260322]

Bump

[Anonymous No.19260339]

>>19260199
I have never read mainlander, does he talk about the world trying to kill itself?
I was just trying to come up with a "reason" for the big bang, while also thinking about how being immortal would be hell. So the conclusion was maybe that universe is immortal and every consciousness that manages to gain control over it eventually concludes that it would rather die. Maybe the giant explosion plan was the one least-likely to result in another sentient universe, hence the attempt. It's like, if you live in Hell, but gain control over Hell, you might attempt to destroy it so you can escape and save others from it

[Anonymous No.19260389]

>>19260339
Holy shit man, you have discovered Will-to-Die and Death of God on your own. Yes Mainländer wrote about this all.

>Despite his scientific means of explanation, Mainländer was not afraid to philosophize in allegorical terms. Formulating his own "myth of creation", Mainländer equated this initial singularity with God.

>Mainländer reinterprets Schopenhauer's metaphysics in two important aspects. Primarily, in Mainländer's system there is no "singular will". The basic unity has broken apart into individual wills and each subject in existence possesses an individual will of his own. Because of this, Mainländer can claim that once an "individual will" is silenced and dies, it achieves absolute nothingness and not the relative nothingness we find in Schopenhauer. By recognizing death as salvation and by giving nothingness an absolute quality, Mainländer's system manages to offer "wider" means for redemption. Secondarily, Mainländer reinterprets the Schopenhauerian will-to-live as an underlying will-to-die, i.e. the will-to-live is the means towards the will-to-die.

I am find to find the page where I wrote my interpenetration. I will write it here if you will check it out

[Anonymous No.19260405]

>>19260339
>>19260389
This is his explanation of Big Bang, which is similar to yours

>Mainlander theorized that an initial singularity dispersed and expanded into the known universe. This dispersion from a singular unity to a multitude of things offered a smooth transition between monism and pluralism. Mainländer thought that with the regression of time, all kinds of pluralism and multiplicity would revert to monism and he believed that, with his philosophy, he had managed to explain this transition from oneness to multiplicity and becoming.[15]

[Anonymous No.19260416]

I wake up every morning disappointed I did not die in my sleep. I'm too lazy and scared of pain to kys myself.

[Anonymous No.19260423]

>>19260416
Same

[Anonymous No.19260429]

>>19260389
>>19260405
I appreciate these explainers and your enthusiasm. I don't think I'm very clever - if I had read these on my own I would not even notice the connection between his ideas and what I wrote.
I do like that idea of death as salvation and I will probably end up reading him l, especially now..I have not read much philosophy and don't yet have the patience for most of it

[Anonymous No.19260436]

>>19260416
I have a few moments in bed every morning where I haven't remembered life yet, then it all comes rushing in. Truly abusive

[Anonymous No.19260443]

>>19257337
The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus goes into stuff like this, I found it really helpful.

[Anonymous No.19260469]

>>19260429
Checkout Mainländer subreddit. There is an unofficial English translation available and a lot of knowledgeable Mainländer readers are there.

[Anonymous No.19260486]

>>19260429
Also checkout Nick Land too. And you can wait for an intelligent AI singularity to bring salvation to whole humanity.

[Anonymous No.19260553]

>>19257296
Every hypothesis alternative to nihilism by necessity involves some part of a nigh-infinite population of karens and stacies enduring FOREVER.

Why the fuck would any sane, decent human being desire an alternative to nihilism?

[Anonymous No.19260727]

>>19260429
>I do like that idea of death as salvation
Then don't read Bahnsen.
Mainlander is candy floss compared to Bahnsen.

[Anonymous No.19260758]

>>19260727
Bahnsen was lunatic with no control over his dick. If we're taking Bahnsen's thesis seriously then why not just accept Nietzsche's Eternal Return?

[Anonymous No.19260760]

>>19260727
Just read his Wikipedia

Every other pessimist is a whitepill compared to this guy holy shit

[Anonymous No.19260773]

>>19260758
>why not just accept Nietzsche's Eternal Return?
I couldn't agree more!

>>19260760
His pessimism is at level: "insane clown"

Sadly, so is mine.
I don't think redemption is in the cards, boys.

[Anonymous No.19260787]

>>19260773
>I couldn't agree more!
I don't remember shit so it doesn't matter. The decisive question for philosophical pessimism is the question of procreation if you affirm it then sorry you're not a pessimist.

[Anonymous No.19260790]

>>19257296
Read up on the philosophy of the mind. Reductive materialism is NOT set in stone, despite what the scientific elite would like to have you believe. (If they can convince you that reductive materialism is true, then they've won.) David Chalmers (The Conscious Mind), Thomas Nagel (Mind and Cosmos) and Bernardo Kastrup (Why Materialism is Baloney) are good places to start.

[Anonymous No.19260800]

>>19260787
>question of procreation
I want to have kids so that their existence negates my thoughts of damnation.
I want to bet with their lives that life is worth living and I just can't yet see it.

And if I'm wrong, sucks for them. Enjoy the grind!

[Anonymous No.19260832]

>>19260800
Then you're no pessimist. This is the credo of a pessimist

>Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, the best thing would to have never been born at all.

[Anonymous No.19260849]

>>19260832
Unless we compete to exist in hellish non-existence.

[Anonymous No.19260851]

>>19260800
>I want to bet with their lives that life is worth living

That's not what you are betting though. You are betting that THEIR lives specifically will be worth living, which is a simple matter of trend analysis.

[Anonymous No.19260861]

>>19260832
>you're no pessimist

I prefer to remain optimistic about my pessimism.

[Anonymous No.19260862]

>>19260849
>hellish non-existence.
No, there is oblivion before birth and snatching someone from the blessed calm is retarded and totally unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.19260864]

>>19260851
Oh, I'm betting THEIR lives, and the lives of all branches extending to the future from my sinful union; Sufferers upon sufferers.

I know what I'm doing, jack.

[Anonymous No.19260875]

>>19260862
Oblivion is an article of faith.
Its like Hellraiser in the ethereal non-existent.

[Anonymous No.19260876]

>>19260861
This doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.19260886]

>>19260875
If this is faith then so is yourself which you're so keen on multiplying.

[Anonymous No.19260895]

>>19260886
I can't help it. Ignoring nature is hollowing me out and I don't have enough empathy for future people. I'm sorry.

[Anonymous No.19260903]

>>19260895
Then pop out a dozen at least.

[Anonymous No.19260906]

>>19260876
Your remark, on the other hand, is merely elegiac and not hopeful.

[Anonymous No.19260914]

>>19260906
No, death is my best hope

[Anonymous No.19260920]

>>19260903
That's the spirit!

[Anonymous No.19260922]

Egocentric manipulative behaviour! It's like coke, but better. Try it, it's even free!

[Anonymous No.19260924]

>>19257296
I thought nietzsche gave the answer, a lofty goal, will to power.

[Anonymous No.19260929]

>>19260914
I wouldn't bet on it.
The ride never ends.

[Anonymous No.19260941]

>>19257296
The answer you're looking for is a Delphic mystery cult.

Come, anon, let's rebuild the temple of Apollo together, and accept the revealed wisdom of Phoibe

[Anonymous No.19260942]

>>19260929
Why death be different from pre birth oblivion? If you're implying an after life live then imply a Christian hell and become a christcuck.

[Anonymous No.19260948]

>>19260942
I dunno, reasons, physics or something.
Death just seems too perfect.

[Anonymous No.19260960]

for me it's stoicism

(inb4 plebbit )

[Anonymous No.19260964]

>>19260948
What physics? Quantum randomness will surely change the configuration of next big bang. And if you're so sure of eternal return then why thoughts of damnation are poking out?

[Anonymous No.19260968]

>>19260964
>why thoughts of damnation
Because I have severe bipolar depression.
Hey, you're more cathartic than regular therapy, thanks!

[Anonymous No.19260982]

>>19260914
Reminds me of this.

[Anonymous No.19261001]

>>19257296
Would you like to go hiking with me?

Let me know if you're in the states

[Anonymous No.19261009]

>>19260968
Sorry man I have also bipolar. I know this feeling of doom and extreme agitation.

[Anonymous No.19261027]

>>19260968
OCD for me

I could write some nuclear blackpill shit given the kind of thoughts I have

[Anonymous No.19261057]

Take the Zhuangzipill


>Zhuangzi's wife died. When Huizu went to convey his condolences, he found Zhuangzi sitting with his legs sprawled out, pounding on a tub and singing. "You lived with her, she brought up your children and grew old," said Huizu. "It should be enough simply not to weep at her death. But pounding on a tub and singing - this is going too far, isn't it?"

>Zhuangzi said, "You're wrong. When she first died, do you think I didn't grieve like anyone else? But I looked back to her beginning and the time before she was born. Not only the time before she was born, but the time before she had a body. Not only the time before she had a body, but the time before she had a spirit. In the midst of the jumble of wonder and mystery a change took place and she had a spirit. Another change and she had a body. Another change and she was born. Now there's been another change and she's dead. It's just like the progression of the four seasons, spring, summer, fall, winter.

>"Now she's going to lie down peacefully in a vast room. If I were to follow after her bawling and sobbing, it would show that I don't understand anything about fate. So I stopped.

Zhuangzi, The Complete Works of Zhuangzi

[Anonymous No.19261058]

[Anonymous No.19261064]

>>19260727
> For Bahnsen, without the will the intellect is impotent. It cannot "will" nothingness, for a will-to-nothingness is still a form of willing, and willing non-willing is a contradiction. Yet it is not impossible for the intellect to have such ideas as, according to Bahnsen, all ideas bred by the intellect are contradictory as the will's desires are irrational and eternally in conflict with themselves. This extremely pessimistic worldview, which offers no escape for the subject, differentiates Bahnsen not only from Schopenhauer, but also from the rest of his pessimistic contemporaries (Frauenstädt, Mainländer, Hartmann). His ideas are arguably more unsettling than Mainländer's notion of a will-to-die, yet strangely similar to Friedrich Nietszche's idea of the eternal return.[11]

Never read any of these niggas but this point seems obvious in retrospect. Mainlander BTFO. Seems like all the big name pessimists we're just coping all along. Pathetic

[Anonymous No.19261100]

>>19260727
Are you the guy who said pic related was bullshit? I just checked the index and Bahnsen isn't even mentioned

[Anonymous No.19261133]

>>19260864

You just gave away the WHOLE game. I'm going to make you world-famous.

[Anonymous No.19261137]

>>19261064
He missed the point. The denial of will is with in the representation, the individual self which has worldly attachments which causes suffering. The denial of Will is the annihilation of individual self and mystically feel the nothingness. This is what monks do and at the end their desires shrink to bare minimum of survival desires of eating, drinking, pissing, shitting and sleeping. They have enough practice to see what their bodies are, packages of piss, shit, phlegm, blood, puss and shit. When self in lost in worldly desires it ignores the mortal reality and works like it is immortal and thus develops a delusion of fear of death. A true monk has no chains, he could die any any moment without any fear. Bahnsen presented tons of shitty conclusions because he was too lazy to properly practice asceticism and celibacy. And fell for memes like marriage and procreation.

>>19261100
No that's me kek.

[Anonymous No.19261159]

>>19257337
>but where do I start?
Literally wherever you want. That's what's neat about perspectivism, literally no one can prove you wrong

[Anonymous No.19261173]

>>19261137
Are you a Buddhist, anon? Do you practice asceticism?

[Anonymous No.19261198]

>>19260800
LOL

[Anonymous No.19261258]

>>19260864
>Sufferers upon sufferers.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RUE9nuR5X7c

[Anonymous No.19261284]

>>19261173
No but I have the desire to become an ascetic. I know it sounds contradictory to desire asceticism but through those practices I can annihilate the tremendous weight of the self which is drenched in all sorts distractions and delusions. I don't believe in reincarnation or enlightenment and I don't have enough strength for an hero because all sorts of worldly desires and delusions are pinning me down and this loud No which comes when I think about death. It is like reversing the error of being born and having a name and stupid bullshit called personality or self. It might be a petty desire to find something ever long lasting with in existence but I want to experiment before fully making up my mind.

[Anonymous No.19261293]

>>19261137
>Bahnsen presented tons of shitty conclusions because he was too lazy to properly practice asceticism and celibacy.
Why would he need to do that? You're making pessimism into a religion. Why would a pessimist deny biological urges? We are what we are.

[Anonymous No.19261301]

>>19261293
>We are what we are.
The heart wants what it wants, amirite? wink wink know what i mean?

[Anonymous No.19261308]

>>19257296
>I've got a long life ahead of me and I can't live like this

If you're ever feeling down, just remember to

Row, row, row your boat
Gently down the stream
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
Life is but a dream.

[Anonymous No.19261313]

>>19261284
Do you believe in a metaphysical system? Something like the Will..

Also, have you researched zen?

[Anonymous No.19261318]

>>19261009
>>19261027
based broken brains

[Anonymous No.19261323]

>>19257296
How old are you?

[Anonymous No.19261326]

>>19261100
Nah, I never read that. But I might,

[Anonymous No.19261329]

>>19257296
Optimism

[Anonymous No.19261350]

>>19261293
>You're making pessimism into a religion.
Not me but the sage of Frankfurt prescribed it. You don't know about the origins of Philosophical Pessimism school? Philosophical Pessimists would have been mystics in medieval times times. Eugene Thacker said that pessimists are failed mystics. The Trouble with being born is the emergence of wretched self and to negate everything we have to start from it's root which self, the source of suffering and affirmation of Will-to-Live. Sex and procreation are the strongest affirmations of the Will and post-nut clarity is where you truly feel the nothingness. But that feeling dissipates into distraction and you get lost in the noise of life's illusion. You're not wrong, Pessimism is a religion. A religion with no immortality projects, a belief in nothing.

[Anonymous No.19261363]

>>19261350
How should I live my daily life as a pessimist?

[Anonymous No.19261372]

>>19261313
>Do you believe in a metaphysical system?
Yes, I have doubt. And no I haven't researched Zen, why?

[Anonymous No.19261375]

>>19261308
I should have noticed sooner. Damn it all!

[Anonymous No.19261380]

>>19261372
I believe it could serve you well

A zen retreat could be a good place to start

[Anonymous No.19261390]

>>19261350

[Anonymous No.19261430]

>>19261363
I don't know. I have many flashes of tremendous lucidity throughout the day but mostly I work like an NPC. Life is only bearable if you work like a NPC, lucidity drenched in death awareness is the height of subjective experience which is no better.

>>19261380
Thank you. Are there any books that any essential Zen books?

>>19261390
Yes, I am Josef K.

[Anonymous No.19261457]

>>19261430
Give this a rip

Best of luck

[Anonymous No.19261512]

>>19257296
Either you realize your sadness is a choice or you don't.
All defeatism and melancholy is a form of cowardice.
Contrary to whatever most people imagine, people do not act in rational but rather do whatever is easiest and are perfectly willing to waste the entirety of their lives.
This makes your type particularly dangerous to yourself OP.
I guarantee you elevate the intellect above everything in order to believe your own bullshit.

[Anonymous No.19261524]

>>19257296
Either you realize your sadness is a choice or you don't.
All defeatism and melancholy is a form of cowardice.
Contrary to whatever most people imagine, people do not act in rational self interest but rather do whatever is easiest and are perfectly willing to waste the entirety of their lives.
This makes your type particularly dangerous to yourself OP.
I guarantee you elevate the intellect above everything in order to believe your own bullshit.

[Anonymous No.19261548]

>>19257309
this type of basic ass existentialism is such a fucking cop out cope. it's just finding something to delude yourself with until you die

[Anonymous No.19261559]

>>19261548
What is the alternative?

[Anonymous No.19261570]

>>19261559
big booty bitches lmao

[Anonymous No.19261582]

>>19261524
>sadness is a choice
fuck out of here with this self-help faustian psychiatry bullshit

[Anonymous No.19261596]

>>19261559
deluding yourself with something for the rest of your life or suicide. personally I haven't done the latter yet because I haven't saved enough money to get a shotgun

[Anonymous No.19261617]

>>19261559
Nothing but suicide. But it's good that the meaningless of the universe and our lives is an impossiility.
It makes absolutely no sense that reality is random and without purpose. To think otherwise is either insanity or simply self delusion.

[Anonymous No.19261621]

>>19257296

[Anonymous No.19261663]

>>19261582
It's pretty much impossible for most people to stop and genuinely consider that they might WANT to be unhappy, so I don't fault you.
It took me until I was 30 to understand what I was doing and how total my contempt was. And I'm exceptional.

[Anonymous No.19261666]

>>19261559
You will probably find this annoying, but the only way is religion. Any religion, just have some kind of belief in something other than this shitty material nihilism. It's as much of a delusion as the beliefs you currently have, because these beliefs have been taught to people just like religion used to be.

[Anonymous No.19261673]

>>19261666
*Any religion EXCEPT Satanism. FFS

[Anonymous No.19261676]

>>19261663
I figured that out for myself once I read Notes from Underground
>And I'm exceptional
No you're not

[Anonymous No.19261682]

>>19261524
>All defeatism and melancholy is a form of cowardice.
you think you have suffered but you probably haven't seen near the bottom. I don't wish it on anybody, but have some humility. The world can break any man

[Anonymous No.19261693]

>>19260163
Your point of view was already BTFO'd by this meme.

[Anonymous No.19261696]

>>19261676
Thinking you've learned or attained wisdom is one of the hallmarks of staying the same. If your life hasn't significantly changed then you haven't either.

>>19261682
Most men deserve to be broken and true to this god leaves them so.

[Anonymous No.19261765]

>>19261666
>because these beliefs have been taught to people just like religion used to be.
Now this is an interesting statement, dark father.
I do wonder from time to time how much pessimism was sewn-in and how much was personal revelation, if any.

[Anonymous No.19261768]

>>19261596
Are you the same as >>19261548

Also, reconsider killing yourself and go hiking with me

[Anonymous No.19261789]

>>19261696
>Most men deserve to be broken
Nobody deserves anything, good or bad, you spooked fool.

[Anonymous No.19261812]

>>19261617
Are you religious?

[Anonymous No.19261813]

>>19261789
You reap what you sow.

[Anonymous No.19261829]

>>19261617
>Nothing but suicide.
seems negated by
>it's good that the meaningless of the universe and our lives is an impossiility.
It makes absolutely no sense that reality is random and without purpose. To think otherwise is either insanity or simply self delusion.

[Anonymous No.19261839]

>>19261829
Yeah, what is he on about?

[Anonymous No.19261841]

>>19261617
>Nothing but suicide.
seems negated by
>it's good that the meaningless of the universe and our lives is an impossiility.
>It makes absolutely no sense that reality is random and without purpose. To think otherwise is either insanity or simply self delusion.

[Anonymous No.19261845]

>>19261839
Its like he found meaning but doesn't realize it.

[Anonymous No.19261883]

I don’t think you can, not in the way modern society is constructed

[Anonymous No.19261906]

>>19261765
If you ask a question like
>Why did every people in the world hold religious beliefs, be it animism, Zoroastrianism, a worship of ancestors, Christianity, Buddhism, Shintō, and so on?
The answer today will be
>It was a psyop to control the people! This way a man could say, "I am in charge in the name of the Heavens" and rule over everyone else!
This answer is extremely loaded, but we have accepted it nonetheless. People have always been extremely practical about things, and cared little for things that were of no use to them. The same went for thoughts, as society shifted they were discarded and changed, but this need for religiosity remained. Could it really have been imposed and only imposed, so seamlessly and in such an organized way, over millennia? Obviously not, people had an affinity for religious thought because religion gave them a meaning above the material world they lived in. Religion was useful to them because it gave them hope about the harvest, about calamity, and so on. Man is part of Nature and Nature cares nothing for the useless things. When someone says that religion was of no use except to those in power, that it was nothing but bait for the gullible for centuries and centuries, that answer is loaded. In the past, people who were gullible would die. People who were stupid would die. People who were easily swayed would die.
It is incredibly arrogant that us modern people, who have lived the world through newspapers and TV and now the internet, safely away from nature in a block of cement, claim that our ancestors had no connection with the real world. People had a much more real experience than us. People would get sick and die. They'd see their sons die. They'd see famine and war and disease. They'd see the reality of death, or growing old, and growing sick. We are crushed by the smallest things and we are unequipped to cope with the smallest intrusion of Nature's reality in our lives. Yet we claim that the ancients were deluded, that they did not know the truth, and that religion was of no use to them but only grew on them because they were gullible or stupid. We claim so because the third-hand hearsay through which we experience reality tells us that religion is a thing of fantasy and we should instead believe that nothing matters, that only what comes out of a lab is truth, because truth is only what produces results. Did religion not produce results? Why is science unable to solve the lack of meaning that is crushing people today, and it cannot do anything except numb them and cripple their brains so they cannot think? Isn't this the very thing by which the materialists mock the religious, that they cannot think?

[Anonymous No.19261922]

>>19261906
I appreciate the effort.

I think what I was getting at was not so much the role or validity of religion and what sustains it, more that pessimism for me has become almost religious. It used to provide me with real comfort.

Pessimism has an insidious feel of the truth, but now I really wonder...

[Anonymous No.19262064]

>>19261813
free will doesn't exist

[Anonymous No.19262146]

>>19262064
Obviously.
>you reap what you sow
>not an absolute statement of causality
You are unintelligent, clearly.

[Anonymous No.19262277]

>>19262146
then how do men "deserve" to be broken? are you a Calvinist?

[Anonymous No.19262351]

>>19262277
You are what you are, you do what you do, you are what you do.

[Anonymous No.19262819]

Found an article on Behnsen from 1932. https://www.jstor.org/stable/2179799

plug into sci-hub.se

[Anonymous No.19262829]

>>19262819

[Anonymous No.19262881]

>>19261524
I am sick of seeing this bullshit non stop all across the internet. You know what this idea amounts to?
Lets look at an example. Someone is in a really dark place and has legitimate reasons to be completely miserable, pessimistic, defeatist. Let's say his whole family; wife kids, dog, cat died in a car accident and the dude is about 60 so he cant restart another family. He has absolutely nothing.
Are you going to tell this man that his sadness caused by losing everything he cared about is a choice? That he feels completely annihilated because he is a coward?
This browbeating philosophy that being sad at events in life to the point where it completely derails your life is some sort of cowardice is completely unacceptable and it shows that you have never had a bad day in your easy comfy life.
It usually comes from self help arseholes who think working out will make you feel happy after losing your entire family in a tragic accident. This shit OBVIOUSLY comes from people who have neve ever had to deal with anything remotely fucked up in their life.
I myself have never lost a close family member other than grandparents and yeah I got over it with time. But I didnt get over it by calling my sadness towards the event cowardice. You are engaging in self psycholigical mutilation and rape when you browbeat yourself and call normal emotions cowardice. Its completely psychotic and disgusting.
Get a fucking grip.

[Anonymous No.19262904]

>>19262881
But, bro, like they totally used to be addicted to videogames and shit. Now they can do 10 chin ups in a row. That's real man shit

[Anonymous No.19262908]

>>19262881
>>19257296
Following on from that I can say OP that there is an alternative to nihilsm (kinda). There are some really fucked up things in the world and you need to come to terms with that and realise just how fucked up they are. Really internalise how fucked up some of the stuff in the world is, dont try to ignore it or make it out as if its completely fine and if you do acknowledge it you are a coward like that stupid faggot came up with.
Its a gradual process thropughout life so you cant sit and do it in an evening but you will eventuially come to the conclusion that you should try to increase the nice things in life. Having something to "look after" if you are on your own for instance is a good thing to try and do. Adopt a baby kitten and take care of it. The love from baby animals and baby humans is a really beautiful thing and if you arent totally dead or malformed in the brain it should heal at least some of your heart and you will get a new perspective on what you should prioritise - helping babies because they are cute and cuddly.
Wont solve everything but its a start.

[Anonymous No.19262923]

>>19262904
Exactly. It comes from people who were video game spergs LDARing in their room for years and they watched a jordan kermit pumpkinhead peterson video on cleaning their room. Now all of a sudden they are an ascended sage that feel they can give life advice over the internet. Its completely fucking pathetic and it should show you just how out of touch with reality a lot of people are.
If someones biggest life crisis is that they cant stop playing world of warcraft then you have absolutely no authority to tell anyone what they should read and do with their lives. Some people have real problems in their life that cant be solved watching 2 hour JP lectures and doing pushups.
God its absolutely vomit inducing im surprised ive not vomitted all over my monitor yet.

[Anonymous No.19262929]

>>19262881
>Are you going to tell this man that his sadness caused by losing everything he cared about is a choice? That he feels completely annihilated because he is a coward?
Grief and sadness aren't the same thing. There's a mourning period. Afterwards yeah, he is making a choice.

[Anonymous No.19262937]

>>19261693

No, it's a feint of language pretending at depth for the sake of humor. It is a comic, after all. The language presents the chemicals as an actor or subject capable in-principle of deception, "telling" the subject abc, but they are rather simply material lacking agency.

>No you can't reduce it to that reading his point is that you have to get outside the material in general in order to produce knowledge, your epistimology needs an extra step

This is a more general observation but it's made superfluous by the earlier one.

>W-well by your own view you see yourself as a concatenation of atoms/chemicals and yet you ascribe consciousness/agency to "yourself" but not to the constituent parts did U ever think about that one huh.

Yes, consciousness is nothing else than physical material moving in such-and-such a way.

>N-no it isn't!! U don't understand the hard problem of consci-

You are mistaken and we are at an impasse.

[Anonymous No.19262938]

>>19262908
I love kittens and children, anon

I used to teach at a summer camp and just adopted a new kitten.

[Anonymous No.19262942]

>>19261906
>The same went for thoughts, as society shifted they were discarded and changed, but this need for religiosity remained. Could it really have been imposed and only imposed, so seamlessly and in such an organized way, over millennia? Obviously not, people had an affinity for religious thought because religion gave them a meaning above the material world they lived
Just because people have felt an impulse towards religious thinking doesn't make religious ideas true. Moreover a "need for religiosity" has to be more rigorously defined. How do you distinguish religiosity from a need for stories or meaning more generally?

[Anonymous No.19262950]

>>19262937
Where did you learn about consciousness?

I'm actually curious.

[Anonymous No.19262962]

>>19262929
Absolutely stupid take on the complexity of the human soul. As if its some washing machine that has a "break-in" period before it can wash clothes.
I am sick to death of people treating human life experiences as if its some fucking IKEA furniture instruction manual. There are so many things that will inhibit someone from getting 100% better after a grieving period such as:
>how close they are to that person
>how much they relied on them (which you will no doubt say relying on people is weak and you should read marcus aurilius and have cold showers)
>how sad it is for the other people you both cared about like children and how you are going to explain to them. Realising the suffering a young child would go through from losing a family member since they dont understand that person isnt coming back
>how much time you have left to restart your life after such an event if that person was really really close
So many factors that just get completely ignored by these self help faggots. Honestly kill yourself if you think like that im sure your parents will get over it after the average statistically accurate science based mourning period so its not an issue in the end. Right?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19262969]

>>19260153
Heh. That’s more of a concept for a science fiction story. A dreary Lovecraftian one.

>>19261548
>cop out cope.
Lets peel this fake scab off. First of all you’re pissed off that there’s no god with some ultimate plan for you in the afterlife. Some Santa Clause story you were spoon fed as a child to warp your natural inclinations. You’re scared of the random wild beauty of life with its sharp edges. You hate the answer, the reality. And you seem to hate those who’ve figured out how to live normal and fulfilling lives. Tell them they’re coping.
Yeah, duh. That’s it. No weird memer shit about it. When you cope this is a good thing
>The real answer is suicide!
This is a degenerate warped mind. You were lied to as a child and were expecting candy, toys and a superman powers in the afterlife with all your dead dogs. Sorry you’re having trouble coping with the facts, I’m sorry you were lied to.

[Anonymous No.19262995]

>>19261617
Why does it have to make sense? And wouldn't reality be just as if not more horrifying if we knew for certain there was transcendent meaning, lets say Christianity, because then we're faced with the radical insignificance of our person. In the atheists world reality is indifferent; in the Christians the opposite, but both are terrifying in different ways. A world underneath some ever watching paternal eye v.s a world wherein nothing has significance beyond that which we decide.

[Anonymous No.19263051]

>>19262937
Laughable

[Anonymous No.19263053]

>>19262923
Everyone desperately wants to be a hero to themselves. So they make up these stories where they overcame great odds. Humility is too rare these days, we should work to develop it. Here's to a million failed alpha males

[Anonymous No.19263081]

>>19263051

Yes, it's true of the objections raised in greentext.

[Anonymous No.19263177]

>>19260416
I hope you get better soon anon

[Anonymous No.19263189]

>>19257309
absolute 100% unadulterated cope

Expected better of kubrick desu

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19263195]

>>19263189
This meme is nonsensical. See above post and hit me up for questions or the inevitable apology

[Anonymous No.19263209]

>>19263195
Are you a materialist, Butterfly?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19263229]

>>19263209
As far as I can tell

[Anonymous No.19263312]

>>19257296
Here's a pragmatic argument I've come up with (maybe someone more important came up with it before but who cares). Either life has meaning or it doesn't. If it has meaning, then you are wasting that meaning by having a nihilistic worldview and acting on it (i.e. not acting to actualize meaning in the world), so it is best to act as if nihilism is not true. If life doesn't have meaning, then it doesn't matter if you're believing the nihilistic truth or deceiving yourself, so it doesn't matter either way if you act like nihilism is true. So if the possible cases are one option being better than the other or both equally not mattering, then it is obviously best to take the option that at least has a chance of being better. Therefore, there is no case where it is preferable to act as if nihilism is true, and you should live your life as if it isn't.

[Anonymous No.19263353]

>>19257296
I Heart Huckabees

[Anonymous No.19264062]

>>19262937
>No, it's a feint of language pretending at depth for the sake of humor.
It can be said about your posts.
> The language presents the chemicals as an actor or subject capable in-principle of deception
For you to be deceived by chemicals doesn't imply that the chemical are an active actor deceiving you.
>Yes, consciousness is nothing else than physical material moving in such-and-such a way.
If it were the case, so what? Have you mastered the physical matter throroughly to its full extent?
Saying that consciousness is 'nothing else' than physical material moving around doesn't address the problem at all, it only desperately escapes it.

[Anonymous No.19264120]

>>19257309
>literally admits he's just coping, but then dresses it up in fancy language and concludes we can have "genuine" meaning
I love kubrick, but this is embarrassing. at least be a man and admit it's just coping from here on out, instead of deluding yourself like that.

[Anonymous No.19264140]

>>19261682
>you think you have suffered but you probably haven't seen near the bottom.
It could also be you who hasn't suffered enough to realize that suffering is a choice. You don't necessarily have to suffer to realize that though, but that's how most people do.
>Someone is in a really dark place and has legitimate reasons to be completely miserable, pessimistic, defeatist.
Nobody denies that you might have a legitimate reason to suffer. But it's your choice whether you are a victim of causality.
>Are you going to tell this man that his sadness caused by losing everything he cared about is a choice?
Sadness is a natural response, the same way as pain is a natural response when you are burning on fire. Nobody's saying that you shouldn't feel that pain, but whether you attribute thissness or I-ness to this pain is by your choice. And nobody blames you for not seeing that choice, don't take it as if somebody's trying to find you faulty. My statements are positive and make sense only positively, if you see them as an attempt to mock misery, you fail to see them.
> That he feels completely annihilated because he is a coward?
Stating from your previous words, he feels so because he lost everything, being a coward alone doesn't make you feel annihilated.
Think, is there anything fundamentally special about that case? If he was coward in any other situation, would it be more justifiable? Does cowardice come out of nowhere? Cowardice is a habit and an attitude which you acquire through experience, be it life-long or instantaneous. Whether you want to be a victim fo your conditioned experience, this you decide for yourself.
> it shows that you have never had a bad day in your easy comfy life
It might as well show he has had too many dark days that he has had enough, that is how most people arrive to that point.

[Anonymous No.19264142]

>>19257296
still nihilism
but enjoy it

[Anonymous No.19264143]

>>19262962
>after the average statistically accurate science based mourning period
Has nothing to do with science. If you want to call out names, you're the one who IFLS here.

[Anonymous No.19264147]

>>19264140
>>19262881

[Anonymous No.19264153]

>Alternatives to nihilism
Metaphysics. Nihilism is a rejection of being.

[Anonymous No.19264185]

>>19260800
this does more or less work. having a kid took suicide off the table and gives your despair a solid floor. but it's not quite as life affirming as you'd hope. I still don't care about my own life at all, outside of the context of contributing to a happy, fulfilling life for my kid. But I am determined to provide and support my kid until my natural end now, which, honestly, is probably a big improvement from where I was. So it does give you a goal, or in some sense "meaning" beyond the usual forms of cope, because it is hardwired in your brain and the wellbeing of your child is something you are always going to instinctively "believe" is important.

[Anonymous No.19264223]

>>19263312
just a secular form of pascal's wager bro. and just like the fatal flaw of that wager (which god do you decide to believe in?), yours is forcing you to "actualize meaning in the world" in some particular way. How could you possibly decide, and furthermore, how could you know that whatever you pick isn't just making things worse since the ACTUAL meaning is diametrically opposed to whatever you decided to pick?

[Anonymous No.19264227]

>>19257342
If you’re asking that then you’re not a Napoleon. Just ask /lit/s favourite law student

[Anonymous No.19264268]

>>19260948
>>19260942


Everything else is a disappointment therefore it follows that death is as well. I'm half joking, but I prefer to get what I can put of this life, just in case.

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19264310]

>>19263312
>Either life has meaning and your actions matter or it doesn't and they don't

>If it is better for life to have meaning and your actions matter than for them not to then you should act as though life has meaning and your actions matter

>It is better for life to have meaning so you should act as though life has meaning and your actions matter

Am I missing something here

[Anonymous No.19264320]

>>19264310
It is better to live as if life has meaning.

[Anonymous No.19264475]

The answer is to embrace your animalistic heritage and indulge yourself in Hedonism. Life is short and can be fun, but only if you dare to free yourself from the shackles of morality and meaning

[Anonymous No.19264479]

>>19264475
>JUST CONSOOM LOL

[Anonymous No.19264544]

>>19264479
Hello there brainlet
What made you believe that Hedonism equates mindless consumption. Maybe caring for African baby’s gets your sense of fulfilment tingling, maybe DMT does. Whatever it is, I am saying that you need to uncover how the mechanisms guiding your reward centre are tuned and act in accordance

[Anonymous No.19264618]

>>19264544
How do you find pleasure, anon?

[Anonymous No.19264741]

>>19257296
no one can give such a thing to you
you must find it yourself in orded to become the ubermensch

[Anonymous No.19264882]

>>19263312
I don't think you understand what meaning is.

Anything that anyone would consider his end goal has meaning. But you wonder if things have a meaning TO YOU or TO OTHER, not by themselves, because things are things, and meaning is their perceived utility to what would be the ultimate end goal of someone.

It's the same moronic thinking, when people wonder (do they really or are they just pretending to be retarded?) if goods have intrinsic value when value is very much in the same way a subjective human appreciation of the utility we can get out of goods.

[Anonymous No.19264885]

>>19257296
start with the 'jeets

[Anonymous No.19264888]

>>19264885
Buddhism is just disguised nihilism

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19264925]

>>19264120
You don’t seem to understand what the word means. See >>19262969
In reality, you are born free and free to choose your purpose. Stop assuming the lie you were told was real. Stop being scared.

[Anonymous No.19264926]

>>19264882
To follow up on that, it's pretty easy to understand what is the general meaning of life: (1) sustain itself, (2) reproduce itself or protect and help its kin thrives (3) find the means to do whatever else might bring sustainable happiness and well-being.

Any act that help you toward those goals have meaning.

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19264984]

>>19264882
>anything that has an end goal has meaning
>meaning is perceived utility to a person's end goal

This is laughably reductive.

You are of course entitled to your poor definition, but you needn't have posted it as though it were in any way a rebuttal of that guy's argument besides a flat out rejection of his premises, and you didn't have to be such a huge dickhead while doing so.

[rag No.19265198]

>>19257296
No such thing. You can't just at some point realize that life has no meaning.
The genesis of your thoughts has physical nature.
Start by reconciling with your family, spend more time outside, find friends, a girlfriend, look for an education/job offers. Build yourself a house, rise your kids.
Spend less time on the internet.

[Anonymous No.19265210]

>>19257296
Before you seek the meaning of life, think of how you will live well and morally. To fulfill what you truly believe is to be the highest good must be a meaningful task. This task is unspoken but nevertheless binding. As in the word of Knud Logstrup:
>Herein lies the unarticulated and one might say anonymous demand that we take care of the life which trust has placed in our hands.
Keep your head in hell and despair not my friend.

[Anonymous No.19265434]

>>19264925
i'm not scared of anything. i'm living my life in the way i choose. I'm just not deluding myself into thinking it is meaningful, as I already said. if others can, more power to them, but it requires greater mental gymnastics than i'm capable of.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19265518]

>>19265434
Pardon.
But “embarrassing” isn’t “more power to them”.
These gymnastics are what your mind needs to be fit for the wide open world.

[Anonymous No.19265559]

>>19265518
i guess it is sort of like when you see those people lined up and excited to watch the newest comic book movie. personally, I think that behavior is embarrassing, that something so retarded can mean that much to them. But if they really do enjoy it that much, go ahead, knock yourself out. i'm glad you're having fun.

not sure what you mean by "wide open world". Are you assuming i'm not a functioning member of society if I can't pull off those gymnastics?

[Anonymous No.19265849]

>>19264984
that is exactly how Nietzsche would define meaning

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19265910]

>>19265849
Nietzsche had a naturalistic account of meaning, specifically as will to power, philosophers in general have many accounts of meaning as naturalistic or immanent, but you are retarded if you think that this is equivalent to what was written above.

This is all irrelevant of course, you are only trying to get a reply out of me because you saw the trip and know I used to post about Nietzsche. If you try this lazy shit again I won't dignify you with a response besides calling you a retard and laughing at you.

[Anonymous No.19265965]

Genetics, family, socio-economic status, upbringing, schooling, random life experience...completely out of your hands.

By the time you reach adult age,, you are already a fully pre-programmed machine, by both birth and arbitrary conditioning. You have something resembling free will, but ultimately the deeper subconscious forces within you will steer the ship. There is really very little you can do to change yourself or the world around you.

Suicide or dedicating your life to a rigorous psycho-spiritual practice such as becoming a Buddhist monk are the most logical options if you want to escape the suffering of existence. Ignorance is indeed bliss and if you are cursed with a modicum of self-awareness, you will always struggle to navigate this absurd world.

This is my own pessimistic worldview. Probably a hundred philosophers conceived of this millennia ago and described this shit better than I ever could. Just saying.

[Anonymous No.19266069]

>>19264888
Start with the heebs

[Anonymous No.19266257]

>>19264888
>t. has never read any Buddhist literature

[Anonymous No.19266397]

>>19265910
Nietzsche wrote that people will find meaning in the affirmation of life after they stop believing in God. The will to power is the drive that facilitates life affirmation. Power is life affirming and meaning is found in that which facilitates it (the means to the goal).

[Anonymous No.19266482]

>>19265965
>Suicide or dedicating your life to a rigorous psycho-spiritual practice such as becoming a Buddhist monk are the most logical options if you want to escape the suffering of existence.
This is the conclusion I’ve come too. It is hard to renounce everything, though I think it may be possible when I leave the west

[Anonymous No.19266572]

>>19266482

Monasticism is a hard, disciplined life. I'd like to think that after the initial shock period, it would get easier. But I guess that's not the point. Forest monks in Thailand get up at 3am and eat one meal a day and are constantly avoiding deadly snakes and other creatures.

[Anonymous No.19266738]

>>19257296
"Those who will succeed in overcoming all these obstacles, and triumphing over the hostility of an environment opposed to all spirituality, will doubtless be few in number; but let it be said once more that it is not numbers that count, for we are here in a domain whose laws are quite different from those of matter. There is therefore no cause for despair, and, even were there no hope of achieving any visible result before the modern world collapses under some catastrophe, this would still be no valid reason for not undertaking a work whose scope extends far beyond the present time. Those who might be tempted to give way to despair should realize that nothing accomplished in this order can ever be lost, that confusion, error, and darkness can win the day only in appearance and in a purely ephemeral way, that all partial and transitory disequilibriums must perforce contribute toward the greater equilibrium of the whole, and that nothing can ultimately prevail against the power of ·truth; their motto should be the one formerly used by certain initiatic organizations of the West: Vincit omnia Veritas."

[Anonymous No.19266752]

>>19266572
>Forest monks in Thailand get up at 3am and eat one meal a day
Looks like I'm halfway there!

[Anonymous No.19266937]

>>19265965
>. Ignorance is indeed bliss and if you are cursed with a modicum of self-awareness, you will always struggle to navigate this absurd world
Imagine someone with your exact philosophical conclusion, but that person is a tall, handsome, and charming man.
What would this man do?
I imagine he would coast along, as a nobody and a nihilist. But he would probably also fall into relationships, friendships, and careers due to his looks and charm.
Should be be a monk? When he could just phone it in and have all the basics?

[Anonymous No.19267054]

these kinds of threads always gather the biggest midwits on the board, proving over and over again that nihilism and reductive materialism truly are pseud shit

[Anonymous No.19267086]

>>19257337
You start doing coke and build your whole life around getting the next fix.

[Anonymous No.19267088]

>>19266572
I didn’t realize there were monks in Thailand. Where?

[Anonymous No.19267155]

>>19257296
Leap nigga, leap!

[Anonymous No.19267160]

>>19267155
unsustainable

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19267186]

>>19266397
>Reginster

Belongs along with Clarke, Leiter and others as Analytic apologists who want to eliminate metaphysics from his writing. Hence you have garbage like relegating Nietzsche's profound, all-affirming and utterly joyous vision of the world as a network of interrelated quanta of power that themselves constitute the world as will to power as a merely singular psychological drive in human beings.

People don't need to find meaning because according to a cosmological view of will to power as constitutive of meaning they already embody and exemplify it, they are quanta of power that express themselves. When you understand this then you understand how superfluous talk about finding meaning or affirming life is from the metaphysico-cosmological perspective.

It is also basically erroneous to talk about power as though it is life affirming, power is not directed towards anything but itself. Richardson's autotelic account of drives is much more elucidating on this account.

[Anonymous No.19267206]

>>19267054

[Anonymous No.19267280]

>>19257296
https://oodegr.com/english/filosofia/nihilism_root_modern_age.htm#I._

"Absolute truth": the phrase has, to a generation raised on skepticism and unaccustomed to serious thought, an antiquated ring. No one, surely--is the common idea--no one is naive enough to believe in "absolute truth" any more; all truth, to our enlightened age, is "relative." The latter expression, let us note-"all truth is relative"-is the popular translation of Nietzsche's phrase, "there is no (absolute) truth"; the one doctrine is the foundation of the Nihilism alike of the masses and of the elite.

"Relative truth" is primarily represented, for our age, by the knowledge of science, which begins in observation, proceeds by logic, and progresses in orderly fashion from the known to the unknown. It is always discursive, contingent, qualified, always expressed in "relation" to something else, never standing alone, never categorical, never -absolute."

The unreflective scientific specialist sees no need for any other kind of knowledge; occupied with the demands of his specialty, he has, perhaps, neither time nor inclination for "abstract" questions that inquire, for example, into the basic presuppositions of that specialty. If he is pressed, or if his mind spontaneously turns to such questions, the most obvious explanation is usually sufficient to satisfy his curiosity: all truth is empirical, all truth is relative.

Either statement, of course, is a self-contradiction. The first statement is itself not empirical at all, but metaphysical; the second is itself an absolute statement. The question of absolute truth is raised first of all, for the critical observer, by such self-contradictions; and the first logical conclusion to which he must be led is this:, if there is any truth at all, it cannot be merely "relative." The first principles of modern science, as of any system of knowledge, are themselves unchangeable and absolute; if they were not there would be no knowledge at all, not even the most "reflective" knowledge, for there would be no criteria by which to classify anything as knowledge or truth.

[Anonymous No.19267353]

>>19262969
shitty ass attempt at psychoanalysis you got there. not only was it inaccurate but you revealed more about your own complexes than mine. In actuality, I'm not afraid of anything but the possibility of reincarnation or the afterlife existing. I want to fade into oblivion when I die.
>You’re scared of the random wild beauty of life with its sharp edges
you've never experienced trauma or actual suffering before or your hubris and ego is big enough to counteract it. also, your music sucks ass and grass isn't as pretty as you think. I've listened to thousands of records and watched thousands of films and I'd trade everything Bach and Coltrane have ever written and everything Tarkovsky has ever directed to never have been born.
>When you cope this is a good thing
that presupposes your conclusion. and most people live "normal" lives because of them being lucky enough to never have to question their society's or family's values or their body's survival instinct.

[Anonymous No.19267450]

>>19267353
Maybe you'd have a better outlook if you stopped consooming and made something yourself, anon.

[Anonymous No.19267557]

>>19267353
You're on an anonymous forum

Let's hear about your suffering

[Anonymous No.19267642]

The amount of coping in this thread is unreal

Obvious that /lit/ can't outgrow their materialism and nihilism. I'm leaving this website.

[Anonymous No.19267648]

>>19267450
art has been my main distraction since I was a teenager. I've made dozens and dozens of hobbyistic film and music projects and have even performed a decent amount of times around my area. still doesn't matter much to me. whatever whimsy the greatest of sunsets or the most magnificent of Brakhage can give you will slip through your fingers like sand. there is nothing new under the sun, and what we have is never enough.

[Anonymous No.19267652]

>>19267642
please stay, there are important thinkers on this website

[Anonymous No.19267696]

>>19267648
I'm an artist as well, anon. I'm sorry that you struggle to find meaning but I encourage you to continue searching.

Also, Brakhage is great. I'll happily connect with you on discord if you're in need of someone to talk to.

[Anonymous No.19267712]

touch glass

[Anonymous No.19267720]

>>19257296
Do you want to go to space or not anon? What must we do if we have relatives out there in the stars, ruled by jannies?

[Anonymous No.19267724]

>>19257357
>find people to love.
this is the most bringing christianity to German peoples attitude ever.

[Anonymous No.19267858]

>>19267353
What are your metaphysics?

[Anonymous No.19267872]

>>19267642

They aren't things that are "outgrown", in the sense of approaching closer to truth. What happens is that adults desire socialization (families/community/relationships) and so if they harbor edgy/nihilistic (true) views of the world, they either delude themselves out of them or learn to keep their views to themselves for the sake of the socialization which is necessary to the human animal. But such a process of maturation is not "becoming wiser", seeing the world aright. It is a cope performed to satisfy psychological needs.

The idea that maturity leads one closer to wisdom or truth by definition, and the related concept that being well-adjusted in the world means that one's ideas are correct or superior to those of the maladjusted, are fallacies. What makes these fallacies so pernicious is that they are often-and only incidentally-true in practice, but not logically or necessarily so. You are like a middle-aged woman who thinks she understands how the world works because she has been in it for a few decades and observed social interactions, mistaking them for a philosophical category.

[Anonymous No.19267892]

>>19267872
In that wouldn't it make more sense to choose the "cope" and be well-adjusted and psychologically healthy? This reads like an elaborate cope for being unable to function.

[Anonymous No.19267933]

>>19267892
The presupposed desired state of what you're saying is to be happy, for a nihilist it's to know the "truth" or what they believe to be the truth. Cope for the former would be against acknowledging you're a loser fuckup and for the latter it would be against knowing the dreadful "true" state of things, that of fabrication and nothingness. Never understood these type of arguments. There's a myriad of arguments to be made against nihilism but at least try to understand it.

[Anonymous No.19267951]

>>19267858
I studied dualistic platonism and idealism when I was younger but once I came to grips with the fact that I've always been learning out of necessity rather than passion, I settled on Cioran type anti-philosophy. I don't care for framework, take that as you will.

[Anonymous No.19267959]

>>19267933
Well, what is a good argument against nihilism? You mention that it's a dreadful truth.

[Anonymous No.19268001]

>>19267951
Not that anon but can you clarify what you mean by "out of necessity?'

[Anonymous No.19268018]

>>19267959

The other poster has the right idea that both "normies", let's call them, and nihilists have their own respective copes. One thing that you could to to undermine a nihilist's argument is to say that by insisting on an unpleasant truth, he is placing truth above all other considerations, in other words, he VALUES truth (or:anything at all), contrary to his professed nihilism. Not that any of this matters.