Is Conan the Barbarian a Socialist hero?

[Anonymous No.19251445]

Hear me out on this one, but I think theres a good case to be made that Conan the Barbarian is a socialist hero or Communist ubermensch. If you've read his books you know that constantly expresses disdain towards any type of perceived nobility and constantly expresses how his common origin is what gives him strength while nobility makes men weak.

In Beyond the Black River, a story set in the colonial frontier of Aquilonia, he expresses disdain towards the idea of the colonial frontier and his belief that the estates of the nobles of Aquilonia should be carved up and given to the peasants for farming and homesteading instead. When he usurps the throne of Aquilonia by force, his first action is to dismantle the system of aristocratic privilege and inheritance and make the common man on equal standing with the nobility.

For all intents and purposes Conan is a Communist dictator

[Anonymous No.19251463]

No that's just American democratism

[Anonymous No.19251485]

>>19251445
No, because Conan believes in the value of strength and masculinity, regardless of it coming from common origins. Left socialism completely lacks any value system, and 99% percent of autistic sub ideologies have literally no moral imperative should favor the proletariat over the bourgeoise. The only one I can think of is Trotsky, iirc, who said that the proles should be backed because they are the only ones exhibiting the virtues of humankind. I have never met a self-identifying leftist who actually can answer this question of moral imperative. I challenge anyone here to suggest one.

[Anonymous No.19251522]

>>19251485
Revolutionary communists believed in strength and masculinity too. They saw themselves as Spartacus. You're too caught up in E communism

[Anonymous No.19251561]

>>19251522
>Revolutionary communists believed in strength and masculinity too
Rhetorically, sure, but reading theory and marxist study was always valued over physical strength, save for the literal grunts in the army

[Anonymous No.19251562]

>esl retard has read one conan story in his life and has never read any non-conan howard
The common denominator of howard's work is barbarism against civilisation. Barbarians conquer civilised men then become civilised themselves then are conquered by barbarians espousing the values they once had
The upper classes of civilised societies are almost walys portreayed as degenerate, effette weaklings in howard's stories, however it's not like he shows commoners as any better. we see basically little of peasant life in howards works but we do see an underclass of degenerate theieves, crime lords, whores, cutthroats, etc.
Howard sees no problem with a violent aristocracy that conquers and takes things by force. In his essay the hyborian age we see that the numerous barbarian tribes of the north conquered the societies of the south, like the vanir who became the ruling class of egypt. you see this all the time in howard's work, where you usually have a race of unintelligent blacks and a race of lighter skinned blacks who conquered them (originally white or alien races but turned darker through centuries of miscegenation)
Conan has love for the common man but if you see him as some communist figure then you're wrong. Conan is an individualist at heart; he does what he pleases and does not identify with any group other than cimmerian.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19251567]

>>19251445
No wonder we never got King Conan.
Seems Howard was something like Jack London

>>19251485
>socialism completely lacks any value system
Hahahhaha hahahhaha. That’s not even vegan leftism you’re talking about. You’re just pulling things outta your ass

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19251570]

>>19251561
Go back to your Rand thread.

[Anonymous No.19251576]

>>19251445
What did Conan think of Jews? That's the question you should be asking.

[Anonymous No.19251607]

>>19251567
>>19251570
>can't argue a moral imperative to defend its stupid beliefs
>'R-rand!'
Lmao, I even offered a possible argument against myself literally right below what you quoted, and you still couldn't formulate anything more than 'nuh-uh'.
Rand sucks for the exact same reason btw. Maybe you should go back, morally bereft room temp IQs seem more like your ilk.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19251617]

>>19251607
Okay. What’s your question exactly?

[Anonymous No.19251620]

>>19251607
Speaking of morally bankrupt midwits lol

[Anonymous No.19251635]

>>19251617
Why am I such a faggot? Is it because I get horny from the thought of manly men

[Anonymous No.19251775]

>>19251617
Why are the proletariat are considered morally superior to the bourgeoise as a historical force?
>>19251620
>>19251635
None of (You) have anything close to an answer. Why the hell should I take anything you say seriously if you can't answer the most basic questions about your beliefs?

[Anonymous No.19251793]

>>19251775
Stop jerking off to Conan and we'll take you seriously

[Anonymous No.19251800]

>>19251793
I mentioned the thread subject 1 (one) time. Coping or stupid?

[Anonymous No.19251810]

>>19251793
Hes arguing against Conan, Conan is a hero of the proletariat

[Anonymous No.19251820]

>>19251562
>however it's not like he shows commoners as any better. we see basically little of peasant life in howards works but we do see an underclass of degenerate theieves, crime lords, whores, cutthroats, etc.

Disagree hard on this point anon. Howard glorifies these type of people and has Conan living amongst them positively, as Conan only wishes to fight, fuck and eat

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19251836]

>>19251775
>Why are the proletariat are considered morally superior to the bourgeoise as a historical force?
Why are classes allowed to exist, is the question I think communism is trying to ask. We shirk off the royalists for the merchant class and we get the same bullshit. Isn’t morality relative? Well, not to the point of allowing elitists conduct themselves like some perverted gods.
Drown Bill Gates and the low life serial killer. Both of them are sadists. I don’t care for either.

[Anonymous No.19251848]

>>19251810
He still wants Conan

[Anonymous No.19251854]

>>19251836
>Why are classes allowed to exist, is the question I think communism is trying to ask. We shirk off the royalists for the merchant class and we get the same bullshit. Isn’t morality relative? Well, not to the point of allowing elitists conduct themselves like some perverted gods.
That's... an interpretation of what Communism is asking. If you ignore all of its historiography, that is.
And that's still a failure to identify the issue. Sure, plenty of elite classes are horrible, but that, by your own admission, is by their action, not existence. Marxism holds that an owner class- and, in some interpretations, anyone who owns any form of capital- should not exist. But this is an assertion backed up by, if anything, the notion of inevitability in dialectical materialism. Which still doesn't answer, in the abstract, *why*.
Thanks for at least replying, unlike the other pseuds

[Anonymous No.19251862]

>>19251800
The latter, for giving you the attention your dad never gave you

[Anonymous No.19251889]

>>19251820
>Disagree hard on this point anon. Howard glorifies these type of people and has Conan living amongst them positively, as Conan only wishes to fight, fuck and eat
Most of them are depicted as degenerates and scum. a few theives are depicted well but most depictions of the underclasses paint them the same as the overclass; negatively

[Anonymous No.19251906]

>>19251810
>Hes arguing against Conan, Conan is a hero of the proletariat
Conan is a raider who pillages and kills without a second thought
he's constantly described as a reaver, a bandit, a pirate, etc

[Anonymous No.19251928]

>>19251567
>No wonder we never got King Conan
He's literally a king in the first story.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19251940]

>>19251854
So your abstraction is still based on subjective morality and you want to know why we would care to level classes and do away with capitalism because this future will still have bad-thing?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19251950]

>>19251928
Sorry.
I meant an Arnold film.
He’s much too old now.

[Anonymous No.19251956]

>>19251906
Until he becomes king and becomes the champion of the common man

[Anonymous No.19251960]

>>19251956
Except he is fine raiding other societies of "common men" as a king.
And conan doesn't want egalitarianism. He is a "common mans king" like many in real history but he is no communist,

[Anonymous No.19251969]

>>19251889
Hard disagree, the Conan stories portray thieves, pirates, barbarians and marauders in a positive light. They are the heroes of the Hyborian age, men that take what they want and live freely. You dont understand REH or what he was going for as a fantasy. Being a roving wayward Barbarian is a positive thing in this world

[Anonymous No.19251984]

>>19251445
No. Your other honor.

[Anonymous No.19251993]

>>19251960
Listen, objectively hes still a common man that led a revolution against the aristocracy of Aquilonia and usurped the throne, using that power to man the common man equal to the aristocrat and establish a system of meritocracy in his kingdom. He conquered and broke the wheel of aristocratic inheritance. Thats his ultimate legacy

[Anonymous No.19252173]

>>19251445
based Conan

[Anonymous No.19252626]

>>19251445
> If you've read his books you know that constantly expresses disdain towards any type of perceived nobility and constantly expresses how his common origin is what gives him strength while nobility makes men weak.

Hating on nobility doesnt make you a communist, is Hitler a communist hero since he hated the Kaiser and the german nobility?

If anything hes a evolian ubermensch, he doesnt care for society or the greater good

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19252661]

>>19251445
>>19251463
>>19251485
>>19251522
>>19251561
>>19251562
>>19251567
>>19251570
>>19251576
>>19251607
>>19251617
>>19251775
>>19251810
>>19251906
>>19251969
>>19252626


>there is/was some person in the world named Conan who was a barbarian and a communist

No.

/thread

/lit/ is not /co/. People here do not debate groundless hypotheticals derived from literary stylistic functions for the purpose of some make-believe fantasy activity.

There is no possible criteria or method of evaluation apart from arbitrary contrivance that would ever establish whether Superman is stronger than The Hulk, whether Holden is a repressed homosexual, or whether Conan is a communist. These are not people with dispositional attitudes, they are configurations of ideas and literary mechanics.

Sage lore threads, downvote lore posters

[Anonymous No.19253331]

>>19251993
>Listen, objectively hes still a common man that led a revolution against the aristocracy of Aquilonia and usurped the throne, using that power to man the common man equal to the aristocrat and establish a system of meritocracy in his kingdom. He conquered and broke the wheel of aristocratic inheritance. Thats his ultimate legacy
You're a communist retard pushing his ideals onto fictional characters. Conan is not a communist because he goes against the aristocracy. He is fine with hierarchies and ruling classes. Richard Longshanks wasn't a communist because he was a tall jacked king who kicked out the merchants and was on good terms with the common man. You are a retard who knows nothing about conan or howard

[Anonymous No.19253366]

>>19251445
Is that a buttplug in her ass?

[Anonymous No.19253441]

>>19251445
this is fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.19253446]

>>19251445
>estates of the nobles of Aquilonia should be carved up and given to the peasants for farming and homesteading instead.
>Conan is a Communist dictator
This is not what the communists want though (they just want to replace the nobles with their "central planning" bureaucratic fraud). You have just described the libertarian proposition in its purest form and we are as far from gommies as you can get.

[Anonymous No.19253459]

>>19253441
No, it's just a panty shot for boomers.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19253482]

>>19252661
The intention of the author can count too.
>>19253441
Naw. You’re just being partisan.
>>19253366
Butt holes are lower. That’s some kind of clasp holding her thong together

[Anonymous No.19253487]

>>19252626
Hitler cucked to the Kaiser and sold out to the German nobility though, thats what the night of the long knives was about

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19253518]

I'm sorry that I stole whatever agency or individuality you felt you had by including you in my mass reply but it really would be best for you if you didn't embarrass yourself further by replying to me I.e. directly quoting me as though what you were saying was some sort of adequate response to anything I said.

[Anonymous No.19253521]

"Our desires are quickly spoken, king of Aquilonia," said Tsotha. "It is our wish to extend our empire."

"And so you want to swine my kingdom," rasped Conan.

"What are you but an adventurer, seizing a crown to which you had no more claim than any other wandering barbarian?" parried Amalrus. "We are prepared to offer you suitable compensation—"

"Compensation!" It was a gust of deep laughter from Conan's mighty chest. "The price of infamy and treachery! I am a barbarian, so I shall sell my kingdom and its people for life and your filthy gold? Ha! How did you come to your crown, you and that black-faced pig beside you? Your fathers did the fighting and the suffering, and handed their crowns to you on golden platters. What you inherited without lifting a finger—except to poison a few brothers—I fought for.

"You sit on satin and guzzle wine the people sweat for, and talk of divine rights of sovereignty—bah! I climbed out of the abyss of naked barbarism to the throne and in that climb I spilt my blood as freely as I spilt that of others. If either of us has the right to rule men, by Crom, it is I! How have you proved yourselves my superiors?

"I found Aquilonia in the grip of a pig like you—one who traced his genealogy for a thousand years. The land was torn with the wars of the barons, and the people cried out under oppression and taxation. Today no Aquilonian noble dares maltreat the humblest of my subjects, and the taxes of the people are lighter than anywhere else in the world.

"What of you? Your brother, Amalrus, holds the eastern half of your kingdom, and defies you. And you, Strabonus, your soldiers are even now besieging castles of a dozen or more rebellious barons. The people of both your kingdoms are crushed into the earth by tyrannous taxes and levies. And you would loot mine—ha! Free my hands and I'll varnish this floor with your brains!"

[Anonymous No.19253551]

>>19253521
>and the people cried out under oppression and taxation
What the fuck? Conan said this?

[Anonymous No.19253560]

>>19253446
The idea in Communism of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat is to forcibly seize and transfer land and wealth from aristocrats to the common people, which is what Conan does

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19253563]

>>19253518
It is an adequate response.
You’re the one that seems embarrassed. LARPing as a namefriend is probably chafing.

[Anonymous No.19253569]

>>19253551
Yes, he becomes a wise and matured champion of the common man later in his life

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19253603]

Sure I'm embarrassed, over how much of a dumdum you are.

An author could intend that a fictional character represent certain ideas but that is a completely non-identical claim to one that suggests a character is or holds this or that particular disposition.

One of these requires a textual analysis of themes and stylistic use of language.

The other requires bullshit speculation on the basis of what happens in a story.

All of this is peripheral of course, because Foucault and Barthes have handily given analyses of why appeal to authorial intent in the former case is not a royal road to the locus of meaning.

[Anonymous No.19253604]

>>19253560
Nonsense, ownership is private or there is no "ownership" whatsoever.
We say that the land legimately belongs to particular people who toil it (they homesteaded it - or they voluntarily agreed to do it for a wage). Commies babble that "the workers" _together_ can own all the land, fucking, meaningless absurd.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19253622]

>Attempting to sound deep about simple sword and sorcery genre fiction

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.19253689]

>describing what you stupid assholes were doing before I came into the thread

[Anonymous No.19253706]

>>19253560
Then a bunch of the common people become the new aristicrats.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19253714]

>>19253689
Not really. Just looks like someone finding the author of Conan was a socialist.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19253725]

>>19253706
It was a different time.
And let’s not get into the weeds of state socialists versus libertarian socialists. It’s just a fantasy series. Entertainments not instruction manuals

[Anonymous No.19253736]

>>19253482
no it's definitely retarded

[Anonymous No.19253766]

>>19251445
>t. Did Not Actually Read Any Of The Stories
Conan is king in several of them and still has a shit ton of noblemen.

[Anonymous No.19253790]

>>19253521
>the taxes of the people are lighter than anywhere else in the world
This is how you know REH wasn't a commie.

[Anonymous No.19253838]

REH wasnt an ideological type of man. This is a passage from a letter he wrote in 1933 about the state of politics

>“I do not expect a permanent state of slavery, but I do look for a period of more or less length, in which class and individual liberty will be practically unknown – oh, it won’t be called slavery or serfdom. They’ll have another name for it – Communism, or Fascism, or Nationalism, or some other -ism; but under the surface it will be the same old tyranny, modified, no doubt, to fit modern conditions. The victims probably won’t realize they are slaves for a long time, until conditions get too utterly hellish. They they’ll doubtless rise, overthrow the existing rule, and institute another regime, in which the people will for a short space held [sic] the reins in chaos and confusion, then natural rulers will institute another mode of government – different in name and outward aspects, but fundamentally the same as the old, or capable of becoming modified to resemble the old type: and which will itself drift irresistibly toward eventual serfdom and ultimate dissolution.”

[Anonymous No.19253909]

>>19253838
>“As for war, that will come when international capital is ready. I do not believe, and have never believed, that Mussolini, Hitler and the other European strong-arm, he-man dictators are anything but figure-heads and tools for international capitalism. The same crowd that recently approached Smedley Butler with a proposition to overthrow the government and set up a Fascist dictatorship”

[Anonymous No.19253932]

>>19253766
In the same fashion that Stalin was the Red Tsar.

[Anonymous No.19253945]

>>19251445

Conan is strong, you noodle-armed limpdick. Go ask your wife's boyfriend to show you how to lift a dumbbell. This is literally the stupidest take on Conan ever written.

[Anonymous No.19253950]

>>19253521
>"I found Aquilonia in the grip of a pig like you—one who traced his genealogy for a thousand years. The land was torn with the wars of the barons, and the people cried out under oppression and taxation. Today no Aquilonian noble dares maltreat the humblest of my subjects, and the taxes of the people are lighter than anywhere else in the world.

How do we interpret this quote? Is it socialist or libertarian?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19253958]

>>19253838
>>19253909
A cynical anarchist. Damn.

[Anonymous No.19253966]

>>19253958
Well he is a Texan after all

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19253999]

>>19253945
Memer, stop embarrassing yourself. There’s plenty of straight white males with muscles that identify as socialist.

[Anonymous No.19254083]

>>19253909
This was the dialog of semi-learned men in 1933? Jesus.

[Anonymous No.19254181]

>>19254083
I assume by “international capital” he means something else.

[Anonymous No.19254376]

>>19254181
It seems almost like lost knowledge that has resurfaced.

[Anonymous No.19254529]

>>19254083
The guy was a published author anon

[Anonymous No.19254592]

I’ve never read Conan, is The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian a good place to start?

It’s illustrated, but the eBook doesn’t seem to have any illustrations. Is it worth picking up the paperback?

[Anonymous No.19254710]

>>19254529
Of pulp fiction lmao

[Anonymous No.19255057]

>>19254710
what have you written?

[Anonymous No.19255124]

>>19255057
I write your paycheck.

[Anonymous No.19255215]

>>19254592
You can start literally anywhere with Conan. Every story stands alone, and its meant to be fragmented stories of different eras of his life told out of order

[Anonymous No.19255357]

>>19253950
Its called being an American frontiersman freedom fighter liberator

[Anonymous No.19256486]

>>19254181
He doesn't. He means capitalism