/lit/ - Literature

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/wg/ - Writing General Anonymous Mon Oct 18 13:55:06 2021 No.19248736 [Reply] [Original]

Previous Thread: >>19233736

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft
>On Writing, Borges
>Links: https://pastebin.com/i4RLYJEx (embed) (embed)

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry
>This Craft of Verse, Borges

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/
> Write a query
https://www.janefriedman.com/query-letters/
> Track your query
https://querytracker.net/

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format
https://screenwriting.info/

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 14:15:05 2021 No.19248810 https://justpaste dot it/8rb46

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 14:54:23 2021 No.19248940 >Stephen King reportedly writes 2000 words a day >he has mentioned if you don't read and write at least 4 to 6 hours a day you'll never be a writer It's over for me isn't it

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 14:55:47 2021 No.19248946 >>19248940 isn't his writing terrible though? like borderline anime stuff?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 14:59:30 2021 No.19248961 >>19248946 Some would say he's not writing for literary merit but solely to be published. I haven't ever read him

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:01:15 2021 No.19248969 >>19248961 got a name that's modern who IS writing for literary merit? I need a fucking senpai.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:19:26 2021 No.19249046 >>19248969 me

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:23:35 2021 No.19249070 remove the (embed) (embed) in the next OP

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:23:59 2021 No.19249072 >>19249046 then start posting senpai, I need toes to suck

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:36:34 2021 No.19249126 I see the end in sight. My book has finally reached the climax of the story. I have two options. Do I let the bad guy rape the girl or do i cop out and have someone stop him as he's about to penetrate?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:41:59 2021 No.19249154 Anyone know of a well written story where we follow the corruption arc of a character where it climaxes at them getting retribution for what they've done? Bonus points if said karma is them getting the shit beat out of.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:45:49 2021 No.19249182 >>19249126 reverse rape but he likes it

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:46:45 2021 No.19249188 >>19249126 why would you even need rape in the story dumbass. it's overdone and boring unless the chick gets murdered afterwards, and then it may cross into the domain of torture porn. there's more dramatic potential with domestic violence or coercion

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:47:44 2021 No.19249199 >>19249072 I was only partially memeing but I'd feel bad about not following up so I'll spoiler tag it https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:50:05 2021 No.19249215 >>19249188 He's raping a robot, but doesn't know it's a robot. So the robot can either rip his head off, be a dead starfish, or push him off and walk out with his dick still hard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:51:22 2021 No.19249223 >>19249215 I am going to need a story synopsis anon

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:51:41 2021 No.19249227 >>19249070 my b

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 15:57:18 2021 No.19249262 >>19249154 A film, but Uncut Gems The masturbatory Lit pick would say that Blood Meridian satisfies parts of this. A lot of Shakespeare; Richard II, Hamlet.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 16:00:24 2021 No.19249282

>>19249223
An incel is tasked by his company to test and develop their newest product, a robot that can assist with any household chores. The incel has terrible time with women, but his coworkers introduce him to a girl. naturally he puts this girl on a pedestal. Naive and innocent, he doesn't know how immoral humans are. He brings his robot to a party. His crush's friend, lusts after his robot and wants to fuck her at all cost.

What is an incel to do in a web of complex relationships? Does he let Chad fuck his robot so he has a chance with the girl, or does he destroy any hopes of their relationship together to protect his name, reputation, and company's robot?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 16:10:22 2021 No.19249326 >>19249282 Why are robots always hot women? Just make a big bulky robot that looks nothing like a woman and the problem is solved.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 16:10:25 2021 No.19249327 >>19249262 damn, I loved Richard II. I thought by now someone would produce something that had that satisfying energy but in a new way. hell maybe I should do it

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 16:58:21 2021 No.19249542
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What are some green flags that make you stick through the start of a book? And/or red flags that could make you drop it? For me it's:
>+ protagonist is already thrown into some situation that fleshs out his character during the introduction
>- small pov shifts in the initial pages

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 16:59:25 2021 No.19249546 >>19248736 just give up and become plumbers

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 17:05:52 2021 No.19249579 File: 135 KB, 737x988, noa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19248961 >I haven't ever read him Him getting film adaptations has helped him. He has some cringy shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 17:06:54 2021 No.19249584 >>19249546 No one here plumbs

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 17:12:08 2021 No.19249613 >>19249215 >He's raping a robot, but doesn't know it's a robot. Then he should fail humorously because he's a retard who cant even rape someone successfully

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 17:15:57 2021 No.19249630

Journey to the End of the Night is dramatically changing the ideas I had for my historical fantasy novel (again). Now I feel the need to adequately show the despair felt by soldiers on the front line as opposed to the heroism and valor I was trying to depict earlier. Balancing that with the politics of the nation and the prevailing public sentiments is going to be fun, too

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 17:19:05 2021 No.19249646 >>19249126 He should penetrate, but his dick gets broken in half because of someone pushing him off and the robots metallic pussy breaks it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 17:31:26 2021 No.19249709 >>19248946 He has a very good visual sense when writing his novels. He imagines his book AS a movie and describes what he's seeing, where the camera goes, where the focus is, etc.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:20:58 2021 No.19250208

r8 pls (it's sci-fi not modern)

The medical waiting room for vaccination processing was a cold place. The walls had no infographics about common ailments or medicinal advertisements. The side tables had no aged copies of lifestyle magazines, nor educational pamphlets about improving one’s health.

The analog clock had been peculiarly engineered through careful neglect and improper repair such that the only thing accurate about it was the fifteen minute marks. The second-hand errantly ticked and tocked, rattling in its cage however it happened to feel. The volume varied as it circled the digits and at times it seemed to creep backwards before leaping ahead. Watching it made the passage of time unbearably long for the kids waiting on their compatibility reports.

This of course was part of the interview. Not just him, but the dozen other new adults that sat in hard plastic chairs watching the clock were all recorded and scrutinized for red flag behaviors. The nervous ticks of foot-tapping. A compulsion to sneak nicotine or THC. But also for anyone who would strike up a conversation among their peers, and how successful they were at it. Those were given officer consideration. No one did much of anything during Harry’s wait, which made it all the more stifling.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:31:21 2021 No.19250268 >>19250208 I want to say it might be a little purple prose, but it's fine prose regardless.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:33:12 2021 No.19250275 >>19249215 Or, or, hear me out, the robot falls in love with the d.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:33:28 2021 No.19250278 >>19248736 I've got several characters with some personality in a world I'm trying to expand but I can't figure out how to bring them into conflict and get everything moving. Do you guys have any tips for things like that?

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:40:12 2021 No.19250313
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>reading Story Genius in the OP links
>on page 97 and read the origin story example of how to illustrate how a misbelief is formed in your protagonist that helps drive the story
Man, that hit really hard and I'm not even sure if the prose mattered so much either. I spent some time to think about how some other characters got their beliefs, it's cathartic to imagine what someone to go through to have a life-altering epiphany that they struggle with for years.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:40:17 2021 No.19250314

>>19249215
And, to add to the whole falling in love bit. If the robot has the ability to literally rip his head off, but doesn't, the sex is clearly consensual. Make the lesson be that women respond positively to cocky, arrogant chads and despise incels. I realize you're writing a story, but sometimes stories should actually reflect reality and not your hopeful incel fantasies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:45:21 2021 No.19250346 >>19250278 Write it out and discover their conflict along the way. Wing it. Draw from life experience. Read something that deals with this topic. But at the end of the day just write.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:47:05 2021 No.19250352

>>19250314
But he doesn't get with the robot. The robot represents incel fantasies. The robot never falls in love with the incel when he fucks the robot it feels like nothing. The robot symbolizes all the e-thots, anime characters, porn actresses and host of other unloving fake women that incels prime over.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:47:13 2021 No.19250353

>>19250208
>vaccine
I know that feeling of waiting in silence before a nurse or doctor shows up. Not seeing any magazines about life is really telling, I liked that.
I'm probably gonna write a short story on an experience I had related to this and not publish it for a long time. I can't imagine anyone would want to hear anything more about vaccines than we already do. More specifically about the championed ethics of a company and the concept of "stop-work order" where if you feel unsafe you don't have to do it and not risk losing your job.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:48:35 2021 No.19250359 >>19250352 She will never love him and is ultimately fake. The robot is a tool, and nothing more. The twist of the story is that he realizes this and uses the robot not as a lover but instead it's intended use, as a amazing housekeeper.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:51:42 2021 No.19250377

>>19250352
Oh I see, that's cool. I saw another thread today where /lit/ discussed waiting for the great Incel novel of the 21st century and whether a publisher would pick it up. I had only considered writing dark comedy about the "autism" side of incels and less about the "no gf." It's on the back burner because I know I'll shove idiosyncratic language all over it.
>prime over
Do you mean "pine over"?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 19:58:51 2021 No.19250424 >>19250377 yes.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:04:47 2021 No.19250458

hey /lit/ I've finished the draft of my first novel, I've given it out to a bunch of friends and family members and the reviews have been positive. Most people I give it to have read it in a couple days, so I don't think they're just being nice.

But what the fuck do I do now? Do I test my luck with tradpub? Do I start ''''''''''building my audience'''''''''' and then try to selfpub? I don't know how I'd build an audience for a book like this, the only thing that I can think of is a broad sort of fiction youtube channel combined with blogs. Anyone have any tips/been through this?

Also, book tease Set in a mountain town in (x), a mysterious apocalyptic event seems to completely bypass this small village, though all that leave never return; eventually, supplies run low, forcing those to venture past their town and confront what lies in wait.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:06:36 2021 No.19250468

>>19250352
Then obviously have the chad fuck the robot. And its definitionally not rape, its an object, make that point clear. Then have chad fall in love with the robot because it gives him the only thing he thinks a woman is good for, and have the MC end the story eating breakfast with the girl he likes.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:16:35 2021 No.19250512

>>19250458
>Set in a mountain town in (x), a mysterious apocalyptic event seems to completely bypass this small village, though all that leave never return; eventually, supplies run low, forcing those to venture past their town and confront what lies in wait.

Could rewrite the tease alone, my guy.
'Mysterious apocalyptic event' is top tier cliched
'Small village' villages are small
'though all that leave never return' eh, I see what you're getting at, but it's real clumsy

'A mountain village has gone many months without visitors, and all who leave never return. As famine and misfortune strike, a group journeys forth. . .'

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:24:52 2021 No.19250552 i didn't write a single word in months i'm never finishing my nover am I

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:24:54 2021 No.19250553

>>19250468
But why would Chad fall in love with a robot since he already gets laid and think it's another notch on his belt? I think it'll be funnier if the robot rapes the incel in front of Chad. Then Chad defeated since a hot girl chose to fuck an ugly guy over him. But that now plays to incel fantasies.

FUck this story, into the trash it goes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:30:18 2021 No.19250582 https://justpaste dot it/8rb46

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:40:33 2021 No.19250631

>>19250512
My tease is pretty shitty, but
>months without visitors
???
>journeys forth
feel like this construction is incredibly cliche 2bh
don't know how to portray the apocalyptic event though without going into detail, all utilities, lines of communication, modes of transportation -- all cease immediately. Don't know how to summarize that without bogging down the 25 words.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:40:46 2021 No.19250632 Sometimes I think of capeshit to write, other times, I think of harem. One time, though, I though of a story about reviving religions.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:44:12 2021 No.19250643 I’m 3000+ words into a novelette and the main crisis feels like it should be soon, but I haven’t written that part yet. What can I do to improve my pacing?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:49:03 2021 No.19250660 >>19250643 It's hard to go off of such little information. What is the focus of your 3k words so far? Setting? Number of characters?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:50:46 2021 No.19250665 >>19250660 Setting and the back story of the main character, as well as introducing another character who later betrays the MC.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:53:34 2021 No.19250678

>>19250665
even for a novelette I don't think that 3k words is too much to not have established the main conflict. If it focuses on the two characters, then it implies the story will revolve around their relationship. I haven't read it obvs but it seems okay so far to me

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:57:36 2021 No.19250700

>>19250678
Okay thanks a lot for allaying my fears! The absolute word limit is 15k words but the publisher I’m looking to send to says the longer the work, the better it has to be. They’ve told me my prose is great before but my emotional character arc is lacking. Hopefully I can draw that out over the course or 10-15k words, but maybe I’m a bit cold and lack enough empathy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:58:20 2021 No.19250703 Welp, including the September bonus, I've now made 14.89 off of Kindle Vella. Somedays I feel like I might just make it.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:59:03 2021 No.19250706

>>19245492

I hope the "Son Of The Sun" guy is here.

I finished the book and wrote a review. Hopefully Amazon white-lists it soon.

p. 242, near end of ch. 16: "tent of the barbarian priests": missing period
p. 247, near start of ch. 17: "plot and seize a city.": missing end-quote

Every once in a while, you allude to the narrator writing these words after the fact.
Is it possible to remove those references?
Because they imply the narrator survives all the events.
It may heighten tension to remove that revelation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 20:59:23 2021 No.19250708 >>19250703 Is making it merely financial to you or do you see writing as an artform? Not trying to imply anything about you but you shouldn’t measure yourself by sales.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:01:52 2021 No.19250720 >>19250708 Spoken like an "author". I'd prefer to be a "writer". See Ian Fleming's classic essay on the subject. https://lithub.com/ian-fleming-explains-how-to-write-a-thriller/

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:09:19 2021 No.19250757

>>19250720
>I write for pleasure and money, not fame
This is the biggest cope I’ve ever seen. Just because you decide to put more schlock in the world doesn’t make you a “craftsman of the people.” Maybe this entire article is as sarcastic and ironic as she is with “Authors” because she’s so defensive about writing shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:16:20 2021 No.19250799 >>19250703 Do you get to see who bought your books off kindle?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:18:40 2021 No.19250815 >>19250708 I do both. I'll enjoy both getting paid, and being better than those other chumps getting paid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:19:49 2021 No.19250819 >>19250799 Nope.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:26:16 2021 No.19250859 >>19250819 I wonder how much money gardner has made

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:28:33 2021 No.19250874 Help I can't do it. I feel so bad writing about my robot getting fucked by chad. It feels so jarring and I feel like I'm being cucked myself. How do I separate my emotions from my writing?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:37:48 2021 No.19250919 >>19250757 >I write shit nobody wants to read Get a load of this loser

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:41:00 2021 No.19250942

>>19250874
>emotionally invested in a character
>a robot character
>a robot character you specifically designed within the story to have no emotions at all
>a literal object. an imaginary object at that
have sex. or touch grass. or harden the fuck up you faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:45:40 2021 No.19250955 >>19250919 Who cares about what the average retard wants to read? You shouldn’t be writing for the lowest common denominator

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:46:59 2021 No.19250960 >>19250942 I'm trying I thought I could write it and had the plan all figured out. But now I'm at the part I can't continue. I even wrote the sex scene already

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:47:38 2021 No.19250963 >>19250955 >not even retards want to read what you write I can see why you're so bitter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:54:47 2021 No.19250990 You know how romance stories are big sellers? And half of them are like gay werewolf or BDSM vampire stories? Are many of those incest? I have a daddy/daughter werewolf story in mind.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:56:57 2021 No.19250998 >>19250963 Maybe because it’s a little harder to read than whatever schlocky “thriller” you shat out like a shit factory

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:57:41 2021 No.19251000 >>19250990 Even if it's incest, dumb w*men will buy it. >inb4 incest is wincest!!!1!

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:58:14 2021 No.19251003 >>19250998 nah, it's just that you suck

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 21:58:57 2021 No.19251007 >>19250990 Because women love the beauty and the beast story.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:03:58 2021 No.19251030 >>19251003 How many readers do you have? Like a few dozen? That’s nothing. You suck.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:09:57 2021 No.19251055 >>19251030 Combined across all sites? About 16,000.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:17:26 2021 No.19251085
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>>19251055
I got almost 400 views for a few sections of my first draft last month. I'd be ecstatic to jump up a few orders of magnitude and get people talking. There's still more work to do, but I'm optimistic if I'm given the opportunity to share a finished story.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:21:03 2021 No.19251101 Where do you people post your stories?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:21:40 2021 No.19251102 >>19251101 I crosspost my main series on Royalroad, Scribblehub, and Spacebattles.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:22:57 2021 No.19251107 >>19251101 Despite all the hating on it here, I post mine to Reddit. There is a plethora of fiction-related subs. Find my master story list here: https://reddit.com/user/ulatekh/comments/pluf8q/hello/

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:25:20 2021 No.19251114 >>19251007 Yet they won't date a neckbeard (who are about as beast as it gets).

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:25:33 2021 No.19251116 >>19251007 Oh, but the daugter's a werewolf. Daddy's a monster hunter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:26:24 2021 No.19251119 >>19251116 Then they'll think its rapey and cancel you on twitter

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:29:20 2021 No.19251127 >>19251114 neckbeards aren't beasts. They're more like blobs and oozes.

Anonymous Mon Oct 18 22:34:02 2021 No.19251145

>>19250706
Thanks for making it all the way through and taking the time to leave a review.

I'll think about it. There are a few passages where it might be difficult to smoothly extricate those references, but it might be worth rewriting them if they are intrusive or detrimental.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:00:41 2021 No.19251256 >>19250268 >>19250353 Thanks

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:01:36 2021 No.19251260 I really enjoy the prose of the bible and jack london How would i fuse to the two?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:10:06 2021 No.19251294 >>19251127 This. You can't call yourself a beast when you're afraid of basic hygiene.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:11:18 2021 No.19251296 >>19251260 I'd have Jesus come back for a second time, but then freezes to death in the Yukon wilderness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:47:01 2021 No.19251419 fucking dumb story idea https://justpaste dot it/51nzv

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:50:05 2021 No.19251431 >>19250990 No, incest is usually reserved for the internet.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:51:17 2021 No.19251439 >>19251419 I would read this if you wrote it, I find that kind of insanity to make very entertaining stories, could be fun if you can pull off the surrealism aspect of deadly carnival games

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:53:29 2021 No.19251452 >>19250700 >gets feedback from publishers Wtf are you doing here? Shouldn't you be writing queries to agents or something?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:56:36 2021 No.19251464 >>19251452 Not that anon but in my country the whole "literary agent" thing doesn't even exist, you send your shit straight to the publisher.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:57:18 2021 No.19251468 >>19251260 Write a book about a survivalist who moves to Alaska or the Yukon and goes off his schizo meds and starts getting god delusions

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 18 23:58:37 2021 No.19251472 >>19251464 Sounds based. What country?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 00:00:35 2021 No.19251479 >>19251472 Binland :D:D

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 00:09:52 2021 No.19251523 >>19251468 Extactly! This is what i'd write, to T You get me anon Also i was asking about the prose i.e the descriptios of things and how they're explaned

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 00:15:50 2021 No.19251555

>>19251523
Well, what It would do is to start out emulating Jack London's prose and as the god delusions get worse start emulating the bible. Have the main character speak in religious parables and stuff. I don't think I could give you specific examples about what to emulate though

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 00:16:57 2021 No.19251558 File: 638 KB, 1280x800, Dorf scholar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I've cut down from 140k to 134,590 There's so much useless shit hiding in the paragraphs. Editing is a frightening thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 00:18:23 2021 No.19251564 >>19251558 I agree. It is fucking terrifying how much garbage is still lurking in the shadows even after like two revisions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 00:22:03 2021 No.19251581 File: 308 KB, 700x420, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19251419 also help me out here, anyone curious enough to look, I have to work on my gauge for seeing anime or not anime is this anime

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 00:24:28 2021 No.19251592 >>19251452 >queries to agents For short stories? I don’t think they even accept short stories unless it’s a collection, and even then not many do that anyway. I’ve never written a full-length novel and never intend to until I master shorter forms

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 00:28:16 2021 No.19251606 >>19251592 I just assumed you would also have a novel or something coming down the pipe if you had a relationship with a publisher already. I'm a moron, please ignore me

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 01:33:03 2021 No.19251888 >>19248946 >borderline anime 1. What does that even mean 2. How would that be negative

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 02:18:41 2021 No.19252035 >>19248940 >stephen king Well to be honest stand by me is a good YA book. As for his writing advice: lol. Basically it's like taking advice from a hit making pop music producer about composing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 02:21:37 2021 No.19252043 >>19249579 >cannon has rifling but it is not curved gotta love it when someone has a partial eye for detail and no understanding of what they are seeing.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 02:32:02 2021 No.19252078

>Pulling the lid from the rations, I was hit with a realization, I had not had a chance to look up the state of the girls mouths. While the fruit would be more than acceptable, all it would take is a couple half-cooked grains in the wrong spot to shatter what little likely remained. I had always had a certain squeamishness about me when it came to teeth. Not once had I done discipline through dentistry despite how accepted, and especially effective, a practice it was in this trade. A Swede once explained to me, in great detail mind you, how he had removed every tooth from a harpies mouth with a pair of pliers before forcing the girl to gum him to completion. Apparently, where he was once met with gnashing fangs and shrill bird noises, he was now greeted with open legs and a spread cunt. While I cannot argue the efficiency of such actions, I can say that the image of that canine’s canine alone was enough to make me shudder in a way where all of the gore associated with that escort had failed.
>While there was a staunch determination not to view the horrors of each mouth, I could at the very least plan around them. The fruit mash, when let to rest, would always have a layer of offensively sugary liquid pooled at the surface, something I’m sure would be acceptable to the girls. Though another issue was brewing, the only drinking implements aboard the carriage were my personal canteen, which I was not about to pollute, and my quaich; a vessel that held almost ceremonial value. The quaich had become a hallmark of my time on the stage. Where as every other man in my place would either feed their wares in private, or would be seen lifting a cup to each girls mouth, mine would feed themselves. The two handles of the bowl would accommodate the myriad hands of the animal races in a way that no other vessel could and would allow for a show of domestication as each girl politely took their share and handed the dish to the next. Those who attempted to replicate my technique while avoiding the “shameful” cultural implication that came with using a quaich would find themselves knelt at the beasts feet picking shards of porcelain from the cobblestone.
More bullying pls and thank you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 02:53:02 2021 No.19252144 Anyone doing Nanowrimo next month?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 03:00:14 2021 No.19252171 >>19252144 I have plenty of free time next month so I will definitely be giving it a shot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 03:17:50 2021 No.19252240 >>19252144 I wrote the most in any nanowrimo last year, hope to exceed it this year

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 03:22:32 2021 No.19252248 >>19252144 I do nanowrimo every month desu

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 04:53:55 2021 No.19252449 Which "The Art of Fiction" is the OP recommending? I have a copy of one by David Lodge which I'm going to start tonight, but is it Gardener the OP is pointing to?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 05:08:44 2021 No.19252486 >>19252449 The one in the pastebin is by Lodge but I accidentally read the Gardner book (for the same reason as you're asking this question) and found it very useful.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 05:20:53 2021 No.19252508 >>19252486 Thank you!

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 06:39:59 2021 No.19252703 >>19248969 Post your favorite books from a literary merit POV, I need inspiration.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 06:41:05 2021 No.19252706 >>19252144 How to finish Nanowrimo 101. Start a month or two earlier.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 06:59:43 2021 No.19252730 File: 96 KB, 862x575, 8c4f25a15573b0f8bcdc086aa40a1b35.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] We're not gonna make it Oh no, we ain't gonna make it We're not gonna make it anymore

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 07:00:52 2021 No.19252735 >>19249709 but that's a terrible way to write. most novices write that way, by imagining the movie/video game/cartoon they'd rather be making and it produces awful results.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 07:03:36 2021 No.19252740

>>19252735
i like to keep the eventual video game adaption of my book in the back of my mind as i write. just wanna make sure that what i got on the page will one day translate to a pretty fun action rpg.
but of course, the goal is to first write a good book.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 08:10:48 2021 No.19252919

>>19248736
I think I might be committing a literary sin. I decided to write a story in a first person perspective and slowly but surely I've absorbed the character, and now I'm writing a guy who is pretty much literally me. Should I stop and start over or double down and commit myself to it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 08:48:10 2021 No.19253046 >>19252740 Plenty of successful writers mimic movie techniques like the cold open. Just keep in mind some things work better in writing, and a lot of game and movie adaptations change to suit the director's taste rather than the original author.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 08:49:37 2021 No.19253050 >>19253046 i will be directing the game

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 09:02:25 2021 No.19253105 >>19250552 According to Stephen King, yes

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 09:07:45 2021 No.19253120 >>19252919 If you can name and understand at least 3 good self insert BOOKS (like Portrait of the Artist, The Sun Also Rises, and Tender is the Night) then there's no need to start over

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 09:25:19 2021 No.19253184 >>19252703 you are posting the question I want the answer to unfortunately >>19251888 1. borderline "too simple" 2. negative because it could have better descriptions but it just doesn't that sex scene in the shining was an attack on my eyes and brain

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 09:39:33 2021 No.19253222

>>19252919
My protag has some similarities to me but also the antagonist, but there are points of departure. The former more paranoid and aggressive, the latter more milquetoast. Another is more nihilistic.
The exact way each character forms their beliefs, how they handle them and what they go after in life is still different from me though. How similar does a character have to be for readers to consider it a self insert? To always agree with the author, look like the author, and get vindicated at least by the end? I try to refute all the characters so I can't imagine being accused of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 10:01:23 2021 No.19253289 >>19252919 Hot take: there are no literary sins, only awful executions of the story idea.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 10:06:38 2021 No.19253308 >>19252078 >discipline through dentistry What is the title of this? 50 shades of off-white?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 10:30:54 2021 No.19253370 >>19249542 Nice, my story does both.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 10:51:17 2021 No.19253423 Everytime I wrote a sex scene I end up fapping to my scene.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 11:06:50 2021 No.19253472 >>19253222 If it's as blatant as that Jew who put himself into that kids cartoon as the savior hero the main girl falls in love with, or is downright wish fulfillment, it's terrible. If it's expression of the self without being cringe, it gets a pass.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 11:12:18 2021 No.19253494 >>19253472 The hard part is not being cringe.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 11:19:21 2021 No.19253528 File: 308 KB, 752x1170, 1611235875984.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Would any anons like to work together on some erotic fanfiction? Especially if you're also into NTR. It's a great way to practice...

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 11:23:10 2021 No.19253543 >>19253528 Only if I get to pull your teeth out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 11:24:18 2021 No.19253548 >>19253423 same except i dont write sex scenes it just becomes relevant to mention my protagonists feet

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 11:48:57 2021 No.19253619

>>19250631
You didn't provide details on the "mysterious apocalyptic event" or how the village learned it happened. My assumption was pre-mass communication (since the contemporary apocalypse has been done to death,) which would have meant the village had to rely on travelers for news.

"Journeys fourth" is cliched, but it's better than "ventures past"
"A group departs" still doesn't feel right. But I'm needling over a fucking teaser, lol.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 11:51:22 2021 No.19253631 >>19252735 most novices do not write that way at all, you can barely visualise anything in their work because an amateur never fully visualises a scene themselves, they write about the idea of a scene rather than the scene itself.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 11:58:08 2021 No.19253651 >>19249709 >He imagines his book AS a movie and describes what he's seeing, where the camera goes, Then why are 80% of his works just masturbatory rambling that goes nowhere?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:01:57 2021 No.19253664 >>19253651 Because he knows Kubrick or some superior talent is going to come along, clean up the mess, and make the general concept compelling and presentable.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:03:29 2021 No.19253669
File: 523 KB, 500x329, 1634370731588.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>"hurr this story is so lovecraftian!"
>read story
>it has a tentacle monster that lives in another dimension or some shit
>the writing is regular YA trash and not at all like lovecraft and doesn't evoke subliminal dread through its imagery
I hate zoomers so much. None of these retards have ever read a single lovecraft story, and most of them don't have fucking tentacles

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:07:01 2021 No.19253688 >>19253664 Didn't he despise The Shining adaptation so much he redid it himself years later?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:10:25 2021 No.19253704 >>19253688 Probably. People who write for others with shit taste often have shit taste themselves.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:17:54 2021 No.19253742 >>19253669 Uhh, Lovecraft was racist okay? So maybe, uhh, don't read his stuff, okay sweetheart?

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:27:47 2021 No.19253787

>>19253688
King has been assblasted for 40 years because Kubrick understood the idea of The Shining better than King and the film is a testament to Kubrick's genius against King's relative cleverness.

That said the book isn't bad, you get to 'stay' in the hotel longer and watch Jack's slow, reluctant decline into madness, where Kubrick depicts Jack as a monster, only waiting for the push.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:46:01 2021 No.19253865 >>19253669 share the work anon, I wanna see

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:47:03 2021 No.19253873 File: 410 KB, 221x196, no escape.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] share BAD work, stuff that really grinds your gears, things that make you wanna PUKE post the OPPOSITE of good, maybe we can learn by example

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 12:53:50 2021 No.19253920 >>19253873 I would but most of it is fanfiction and that's not allowed on /lit/

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 13:13:15 2021 No.19253990
File: 219 KB, 1154x769, lataus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I've edited down to 133k words. That's 7k words of fat trimmed, and an untold number of lines rewritten.
Some stuff was better when rereading it than I thought. Most of it isn't though. I recommend two months between finishing your first draft and your proper go at editing. That gives you enough time away from the work to look at it with fresh eyes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 13:25:37 2021 No.19254041 >>19253990 Editing has helped me go a lot deeper into subtext of scenes once I know more about everything. My 2nd draft is fun so far because of that and it's going by almost 3x faster than the first.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 13:34:15 2021 No.19254067 >>19248946 There are several distinct phases of Stephen King that I know of: 1. Drug abuse phase 2. Pre-car accident phase 3. Post-car accident phase You can see it in his writing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 13:41:07 2021 No.19254102 >>19254067 I dont even read King but I had a co-worker point out the post-accident writing. Specifically referred to him self-inserting literally himself as a character

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 13:42:16 2021 No.19254107 >>19253865 Man, I don't even shill my own shit, why would I get readers for some other nerd!

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 14:33:33 2021 No.19254401

Publishing question, if I submit short stories to literary journals, will that hinder my chances at being traditionally published later?

Obviously I'm not banking on the odds of either happening, but I know that publishers reject any person who was previously published (including self published). I just don't know how journal submission affects that, if at all.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 14:50:25 2021 No.19254488 I wrote 300 words gmi

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 14:56:06 2021 No.19254524 >>19253873 >post the OPPOSITE of good i can't, when i do ctrl+a ctrl+c ctrl+v on this entire thread it tells me i'm over the character limit

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 15:07:25 2021 No.19254578

>>19254401
>but I know that publishers reject any person who was previously published
yeah it's really a shame how that stephen king guy never got a second book out after carrie since that's not allowed in publishing. what the fuck are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 15:14:52 2021 No.19254630 I'm not sure if some of my stylistic choices might not be just mistakes. I like to interrupt the action with the thoughts of my main character now and then, do you think that's just going to be irritating or it might actually enrich the text?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 15:24:44 2021 No.19254682 >>19254630 It's irritating, but if you have enough friends in high places it also "enriches the text"

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 15:28:08 2021 No.19254699 File: 68 KB, 700x700, 1468522027422.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19254682 Fuck...

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 16:07:21 2021 No.19254952 >>19254630 Share an example

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 16:13:17 2021 No.19254985 >>19254630 >interrupt the action Who the fuck do you think loves interruptions?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 16:20:21 2021 No.19255035 Lads, I've inadvertently made a character that's too close to my ex. What's a nice woman's name? I'm thinking Brianna or Kiara but, in all honesty it could be anything. She has a hole punched through her skull and dies horribly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 16:28:52 2021 No.19255077 >>19255035 I've always trusted women with names like Beatrice. Modern ones like Amanda, Allison, Molly, and especially Stephanie always cuck you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 16:37:06 2021 No.19255119 >>19254985 I like it when characters interject with their thoughts, that's why I'm doing it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 16:48:12 2021 No.19255165 >>19255119 share a goddamn example

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 17:13:48 2021 No.19255272
File: 10 KB, 112x112, 1605825809571.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19255119
More words in a scene mimics the passage of more time. If you character is going to say or think something in an action scene, make it short. It's better to have motivations and emotions revealed through actions if you can do that in less words. That way you can show the action and share how the character is feeling at the same time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 17:25:22 2021 No.19255325 https://justpaste dot it/8rb46

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 17:26:09 2021 No.19255330 >>19255035 Kylighe. There's like 10 different variations of them

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 17:45:58 2021 No.19255462 >>19255325 best thing i've read here lately there are a few sentences that could be written better and a few word choices that could be better, but still good

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 17:50:12 2021 No.19255491 >>19254488 Based

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 17:53:30 2021 No.19255517 Which is more important for you guys? Meeting your daily word count goal? Or meeting your daily pages read goal?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 17:59:00 2021 No.19255549 >>19255517 Meeting my yearly book completed

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 18:03:57 2021 No.19255573

>>19255272
>More words in a scene mimics the passage of more time.
no it fucking doesn't. did you learn to write from visual novels? fiction writing isn't a videogame running on some internal clock, it describes subjective experiences, it will dwell on a heartbeat's worth of sensations over a dozen pages and then summarize a decade with a paragraph. that's what it does and that's what it should do. holy shit start reading books you fucking helpless retards, this place is really getting too stupid to withstand

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 18:17:48 2021 No.19255638 If i write for YA, how much curse words and sex scenes can i get away with?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 18:19:07 2021 No.19255646 >>19255573 Actually, I learned it from novelist. There's a reason why Thrillers have shorter chapters, paragraphs and scenes on average.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 18:32:16 2021 No.19255693 >>19255638 I don't think you can really do sex scenes in YA. I've heard YA authors say that you can have sexual themes and imply that sexual contact occurred, but explicit sex scenes are a no go.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 19:27:22 2021 No.19255917 >>19255517 Former even though I struggle writing consecutive days sometimes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 19:30:20 2021 No.19255931 >>19252706 Doesn't that defeat the point?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 19:32:26 2021 No.19255940 >>19255931 if you write a novel you've succeeded

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 19:33:00 2021 No.19255942 >>19255517 I personally think reading is more valuable long term than just trying to write for the sake of it. I worry much more about reading every day rather than writing constantly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 19:33:18 2021 No.19255945 >>19255517 Writing goal. I find it very easy to meet my reading goals but my writing goals take a lot of active effort.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 19:34:02 2021 No.19255949 >>19255940 Fair point. That's for sure something I haven't managed yet. Maybe I'll keep going into December and January if I need to this time.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 19:42:51 2021 No.19256003

>>19255646
>Actually, I learned it from novelist. There's a reason why Thrillers have shorter chapters, paragraphs and scenes on average.
yes there is, it's because they're written for people who don't like to read. do you actually think that when the hero meets a character for the first time there being a paragraph of visual description means that this particular handshake but not any subsequent one took two minutes? when that wise novelist of yours sees that he has written "and then he went home in a cab" does he correct this obvious mistake by writing filler paragraphs about the back of the cabbie's head so that the amount of text matches the length of the drive? does he believe that in the world of his novel taking a sip of champagne takes longer than a sip of gin because champagne is a longer word?

objective time doesn't even apply in action movies (the last 10 seconds on the bomb's timer don't take 10 seconds of screen-time but 30 etc) and you think it applies to novels? look at a novel for once instead of repeating brain-rotting advice.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 20:31:12 2021 No.19256243 do you respect YA or do you consider it inferior

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 20:38:03 2021 No.19256275

please r8 and be gentle. it's about my recent hospital stay. yes I'm a degenerate alco but I'm trying to get well

HOSPITAL BED

This is my holiday home.

The bin reeks being unchanged in days: banana skins, a half punnet of pureed peach, homogeneous pig-slop. The scent makes my stomach go merrily round. Today, lunch was a cold soup of leftovers: discarded supermarket produce unfit for sale. I hereby award the chef negative three Michelin Stars.

The bathroom drain plays music for me; the ensemble: a pipe-organ strangling a cat. I wish I could help it. It's stuck in the pipes, desperate for escape. Here kitty kitty. It scratches and strikes, tail caught in the rollers. It struggles all night.

I know this room like the back of my cannula'd hand. I am its expert, it my field of research. The corner houses a wall-mounted alcohol dispenser: a brand of liqueur I've discovered is not for humans. I can recite you verbatim the laminate guides for the washing of hands, donning of gloves, rinsing of eyes, and disposal of syringes. I know which switch for which light, how to bell the nurse in the dark, and how to adjust my headrest in varying angles of agony.

The wall clock does not tick, its seconds hand in constant motion in the fashion of the latest Apple Watch. What use is millisecond precision to me? I exist in hours: the hours between obs, between meals, between shits.

The sheets smell of sweat: the putrid sweat only alcoholics know. It's inescapable: in our hair, in our clothes, in the air around us. I shower, yet no matter how long and hard I lathe, the stench follows. The moment I slip into the permeated bed I return to my pre-showered form.

Disconnected from the heart-rate monitor, the flat-lines amuse me. No pulse. No pressure. No saturation. Nothing. I'm dead to this machine. “The thought of suicide is a great consolation: by means of it one gets through many a dark night,” someone said. Beep beep.

A nurse pushes tubes in my nostrils, twin ice-picks, deeper and deeper digs this enthused lobotomist. A therapist drills me. I know all the boxes and how to check them. Yes sir, yes ma'am. I'm given pamphlets, papers: War and Peace.

They say I can go. It was a good holiday.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 20:44:06 2021 No.19256300 >>19256243 I consider it an inferior form of literature but I respect that it takes a lot more effort and talent than people usually give it credit for.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 20:48:45 2021 No.19256322

>time to write hits
>>19252144
this belief that every retard with a reddit handle can shit out a novel in 1 month and deserves to get it thereby published is absolute cancer. quality over quantity.
>>19256243
it should and can be decent (such as His Dark Materials) but most YA writers use it as a crutch to lower their standards and shit out a log on a page.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 21:07:36 2021 No.19256441
File: 199 KB, 240x320, genie.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You know what your problem is anon? You aspire to write as the greats did. The problem with that is two-fold: any attempt at emulation will be dogshit, & the greats were only great for their own time. You need to write BETTER than the greats. They already set the bar, and now you have to raise it. So stop coming to this thread and asking inane questions like "what makes a character believable" or "how do I think of a good ending to my story." You can get these answers and more by reading the greats. And don't come around to post your effortless pith looking for feedback. Just ask yourself: "Can I make this any better?" Only after the answer is 'no' should you post it. When it is invariably torn apart go back to square one.

We all start somewhere, and it's with reading a book. Read a book you dumb motherfucker.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 21:10:03 2021 No.19256452 >>19250706 I believe your review just posted on Amazon. It is very much appreciated.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:24:06 2021 No.19256790 File: 797 B, 152x23, mogged.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >wrote 3.5k words today feels good man

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:29:27 2021 No.19256805 >>19256790 >not over 9000 pathetic

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:31:08 2021 No.19256821 [DELETED]

>>19255638
I don't think it's necessarily inferior just because its for children. Good YA has all the hallmarks of good adult literature, its just aimed at a different audience. I don't really think there's anything wrong with adults reading YA occasionally, but if you're an adult and all you read is YA there's something wrong with your brain.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:32:19 2021 No.19256828 >>19256790 shit dude, I consider it a good day if I can get 500 out. How many hours did you write for?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:33:20 2021 No.19256838 >>19256828 That represents about six hours of writing in a trance state. I guess you could say I was inspired

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:33:28 2021 No.19256840

>>19256243
I don't think it's necessarily inferior just because its for children. Good YA has all the hallmarks of good adult literature, its just aimed at a different audience. I don't really think there's anything wrong with adults reading YA occasionally, but if you're an adult and all you read is YA there's something wrong with your brain.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:39:21 2021 No.19256870 >>19249326 I'd fuck it

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:44:44 2021 No.19256898 >>19256790 3.5 is hard to do. I'm happy with 2.5k

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:50:54 2021 No.19256933
File: 108 KB, 800x800, 1568068567223.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19256790
>get home and edit 4k words worth of passages in 4 hours
This is pretty much every weekday during second draft. It trims my mostly rambling sentences and adds segments for better detail. I'm going to sleep.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:56:33 2021 No.19256960 >>19256838 Inspired by what?

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 22:56:39 2021 No.19256963

>>19254401
Submitting to lit journals is how you build a "resume" that agents will take seriously. They get a flood of queries every day, if you can cite a publication history you're already over the first hurdle.

So you should absolutely be sending your stories to journals if you want to publish a book

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:03:19 2021 No.19256997 File: 76 KB, 668x665, cockvore.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19256960 I'm so glad you asked anon. here's an excerpt, figure it out

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:05:02 2021 No.19257004

>>19256960
Not that anon, but what inspires me the most is when I capture the feeling of a character. I'll go about my day and then it dawns on me how strongly a character wants something. Sometimes its their strong reaction to a defining event that holds them back. When I feel that tension, I want to show it bleeding out of them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:08:04 2021 No.19257016 >>19256997 If you experience inspiration for more than four hours, then you should call a doctor.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:10:36 2021 No.19257025 File: 9 KB, 239x211, kek.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19257016

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:10:36 2021 No.19257026 >>19256243 I think children are inherently inferior. I can admire the craftsmanship.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:12:24 2021 No.19257032

>>19254102
>Specifically referred to him self-inserting literally himself as a character

I don't see how that still pisses people off. It's literally a series about infinite parallel universe within universes. it was only a matter of time before it went full meta.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:13:10 2021 No.19257036 File: 249 KB, 600x448, 48741734_p0.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19256322 Yes, spent a solid 2 hours writing/editing. Fixed up the pivitol chapter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:14:49 2021 No.19257042 >>19252144 I thought about it, but I think I'll wait until next year. I'll do about the same amount of work equivalent, just on different products.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:21:46 2021 No.19257071

>>19256243
What kind of themes do YA novels have? People here don't seem to like the genre and I'm not sure if my story fits the criteria. Even through I write anime I don't really consider it intended for audiences under 18 since it has very mature themes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:25:12 2021 No.19257087 >>19257071 YA always seems to include coming of age as a theme, among other things.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:36:14 2021 No.19257125 >writing a novel where louis xvii is an avatar of baldr and decides to destroy the world with jormungandr as revenge for the injustices he faced in his life currently have about 1,500 words. thoughts?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:41:35 2021 No.19257153 >>19257125 I'm not shitting on your idea, I'm just confused. Why would an 18th century French child king an avatar of a pagan Norse god? Shouldn't he be a reincarnation of Charlemagne or Vercingetorix or something?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:42:13 2021 No.19257159 >>19257153 i don't know. i just thought it would be a cool idea

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:42:29 2021 No.19257161 >>19257071 >Even through I write anime jesus christ the cringe

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:43:46 2021 No.19257166 >>19257125 99.999% of people don't know who Baldr is. Half that amount know about Louis XVII or the injustices he faced. Even fewer still want a DBZ style power Olympics between him and Norse gods. Seems niche and not in a good way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:44:15 2021 No.19257169 >>19257159 Hey man you're the boss. If that's what you wanna write, go for it

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:47:26 2021 No.19257178 >>19257166 Is Baldr not in the Marvel movies?

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:47:28 2021 No.19257179

>>19257166
The way I'm writing doesn't rely on people knowing who it is, that's almost a little treat. People who know them will recognize them, but those that don't will be told everything they need to know throughout the story.
>DBZ style power olympics
What would be a good way to go about writing that? I feel fights could only go on for so long without seeming redundant in prose.
>>19257169
You might see an excerpt here later on if I like it enough.

Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:52:49 2021 No.19257207

>>19257179
If you are going to pull from anime fights scenes look at something like JoJo instead of DBZ. I know it's a meme at this point but there was always some level of wit in the way it handled its fights as puzzles instead of raw power levels.
the new God of War is another example I suppose where they use Baldrs weakness to Mistletoe but I really hope you don't plan to use that. It's entered normie culture at this point.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 19 23:56:26 2021 No.19257226 >>19257207 Dying as Louis XVII was for all intents and purposes his mistletoe. This’ll be post ragnarok Baldr.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:04:22 2021 No.19257280 >>19254067 Things got really crazy after that accident.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:19:13 2021 No.19257351 >>19257161 Yeah I'm sure you're writing the most profound story of the modern age. Totally not psuedo cringe. 'Anime writing' isn't even a well defined term. What the hell does it even mean and why is it being tossed around like it's a bad thing?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:26:46 2021 No.19257391 >>19257351 im pretty sure the cringe comes from anime being a visual medium. the guy basically said he writes scripts for tv shows when i think he meant manga

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:31:20 2021 No.19257413 >>19257351 >What the hell does it even mean and why It means a poorly written cartoon script, poorly translated into English and losing any quality it may once have had.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:31:50 2021 No.19257414 >>19257391 Manga is also a visual medium though

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:38:55 2021 No.19257442 >>19257413 >>19257391 If 'anime writing' is just poorly written script writing then can't we just call it that? Shitty script writing. Calling it anime writing is pretty vague and all it's doing is targeting authors who are inspired from anime/manga.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:42:40 2021 No.19257456 >>19257414 oh true. i know nothifn about anime or manga

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:53:39 2021 No.19257496 >>19255462 thanks man. Means a bit. Gotta get back on the writing horse again.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 00:56:41 2021 No.19257507

>>19257442
That's how I think about it. Though if somebody wants to specify anime I don't mind the word.

Keep in mind, 4chan is filled with 12 year old weebs who haven't outgrown their japanimation phase and still think the world revolves around their larval tastes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 01:02:46 2021 No.19257520 >>19256441 Thanks anon. I will try. I am just starting out writing,

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 01:27:07 2021 No.19257623

>>19256441
This reminds me of some comments by Dwight Eisenhower, President of the US, and Supreme Allied Commander in Europe in WWII.

He said that every general, warlord, or any kind of military leader in history has tried to reproduce the Battle of Cannae. That famous Carthaginian victory over the Romans where a double envelopment completely annihilated enemy. One of greatest ass-whoopings in history.

He said instead of trying to go for the absurdly unrealistic goal, it's better to just go for a win. If the opportunity for a Cannae comes up, great. But you can't count on it. It's better to win, than risk to win big.

I guess it's another way of saying the perfect is the enemy of the good.

He also said good generals study strategy, great generals study logistics. But that's more military specific.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 02:43:08 2021 No.19257865 >>19257125 Based

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:18:50 2021 No.19258891
File: 316 KB, 530x631, Goodbye cruel world.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I didn't make it. I wasted a year and have nothing to show for it.
>Wooden narration of obvious things.
That's it. That's what my work is according to someone who read it. I'm
>an amateur reaching for too much.
My topic is
>too obvious
I'm so fucking done with this shit, I hate writing and I hate all of you but more than anything I hate myself and the piece of shit I let other people read.
See you in Hell, /lit/

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:32:45 2021 No.19258937 >>19258891 lol pwnd but in all seriousness just keep going and improve the areas that need improving gl we are all gonna make it

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:38:53 2021 No.19258961 >>19258891 Post your work. Those are the go-to complaints of a bitter pseud so may not be a real issue.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:41:37 2021 No.19258969

>>19258937
Anon there's no way to improve it, the subject itself is "too obvious", I'd have to write a different book, to throw away everything I've done and just go back to zero.
>>19258961
Language barrier. I got my criticism from people who can actually read my language. Sorry.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:47:40 2021 No.19258993 >>19258969 What's the subject? Do you think it's obvious? What about it makes it obvious?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:51:17 2021 No.19259005

>>19258993
I wrote about experiences during my military service and it's too obvious because it's THE coming-of-age experience for most males in my country. I just thought it'd be a nice book since there hasn't been a book focused on it since 1931, actual war novels excluded.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:51:57 2021 No.19259009 >>19259005 Respectfully, your critic is a fucking idiot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:56:05 2021 No.19259028 >>19256452 You're welcome! Maybe read and review my book? I need some reviews. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09HLY13CL I'll gift it to you for free if that helps.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 09:59:13 2021 No.19259048 >>19259009 I don't know anon, they hit me in a sore spot and I've been rejected by publishers already, showing there's something wrong with my work. I don't have a clever and unique perspective, only my own.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 10:09:32 2021 No.19259088

>>19259005
I can kind of see the complaint considering it's only done in your language but surely there must have been more to it than the standard bootcamp experience.
There are thousands of books set in American high schools that are shit out every single year, half are obvious and half are not. an obvious premise or setting does not make an obvious story. There are plenty of crazy premises that degrade into structure 101 so it just doesn't correlate.
What would you say the themes of your works are?

>>19259048
Everyone gets rejected. Even Lewis Carroll had 800 rejections over his career, and that's back when competition was a little intense.

>>19259028
Post a upub to Nopy or something. I'll check it out.
The blurb really doesn't grab me though. I honestly had to go back and check what it said before writing this out because I got distracted by your karaoke videos.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 10:32:41 2021 No.19259198

>>19259088
>What would you say the themes of your works are?
The revelation of the content of people's character. Some who start off highly motivated end up accomplishing nothing, some who are seemingly not really fit for service actually get ahead, some (including myself) have to confront our worse sides when lack of motivation leads to negligence and attempts are made to cover up fuck-ups to avoid taking responsibility for them.
For my own part, I start off not really liking the service, but as I get used to it I start to feel more confident in myself and start planning on getting promoted. Then a fuck-up changes all that.
I think people are the thing that's most important in this book. The military aspects are only the setting where they meet each other and interact. For the protagonist (me) to go outside my own comfort zone and meet such drastically different people, spending time day and night with the sorts of guys I'd normally never have interacted with at all. Making friends outside the cliques you'd form in high school, getting to know people whose interests do not align with yours. Broadening your horizons despite being contained at the barracks is somehow a very nice thing in my mind. Learning to relate to others and going through adversity together.
I'm not sure any of this is answering what the "themes" are. But that's what I think it's about. It's a tribute to the guys from the 2nd platoon.
There's also a lot of me mooning over my high school crush and feeling jealous of guys who are already married or steadily dating. Maybe yearning is a theme?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:09:23 2021 No.19259411

>>19258891
>>19259005
>>19259198
this is the sort of thing i can't really judge without being able to read the writing but i see a lot of amateurs operate on the assumption that their personal experiences are interesting and worthwhile and then become massively depressed when putting them on paper just makes everyone else yawn. you can't expect a straightforward narration of your life to be as interesting to other people as it is to you, you have to extract something from it that's of general value, to look at it from a distance and mercilessly prune the parts that someone who doesn't care about you or your high school crush or your platoon would find banal, which might be most of it. it might be all of it.

your starting position should be that nobody gives a shit about you. all that matters is what the words you can put on the page do to the reader and if your memories from high school or the army help you write well then great and if they don't then they belong in the trash.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:25:06 2021 No.19259501 >>19259411 >they belong in the trash Thanks, I really needed that.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:29:28 2021 No.19259525

>>19259005
>experiences during my military service
lmao it's you. Fucking learn to let go you goddamn autist, you've been rambling about this shit for months. How many times do you have to get told the same to believe? It can't be this hard. Move on with your life. Do something else.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:33:39 2021 No.19259549 >>19259525 >you've been rambling about this shit for months 10 months, actually.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:36:46 2021 No.19259565 >>19259549 Christ, it's like you're proud to be sick

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:40:19 2021 No.19259582 >>19259565 Honestly there's good material here>>19258891 for a new pasta

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:44:36 2021 No.19259604

>>19259582
>Any progress on your novels?
Yes, I'm done now. I was never going to become the next Faulkner, the next Nabokov or the next Joyce, but I hid behind the language barrier to avoid criticism for months, maintaining an illusion that was fun to live in while it lasted. I had thought my country's education system to be topmost in the world, but this turned out to be utter bollocks. A child of 18, a person ten years my junior, has a greater vocabulary than I, who had to look up the word “topiary”, and no one likes the expression theory of art anymore, I am likened to a long lost dinosaur.
This will be my final post on /lit/. I've been humiliated and exposed as a fraud. My writing is pretentious, infantile, banal drivel. My observations are dull, my language grade school level. My tenses are mixed up; I use colloquialisms, ellipses and onomatopoeia. I mix tired and trite idioms together to obfuscate their unoriginality with a veneer of irony; I have continued to recite ornate Jewish chimpanzee parables with diminishing returns. The parable seemed very clearly to me to be asking me whether or not the now-grown-adult can choose. I say yes, of course, but that's not my issue.
I was never cut out for writing. I began writing my "book" on January 6th. Since then I've produced 140 thousand words for it, then editing down to 132 thousand. These words are a tide of garbage without value, without insight, without form. The themes of time, space, infinity, memory and pointless duelling are not present in my work. It was never real writing, it was anime and weebshit!
Story arcs, character arcs, narrative arcs, these are all outdated terms. You say what you hear, and only the anime fandom uses the term “arc” anymore. I am a toad! Look how many words I wrote, because apparently literature is bodybuilding and just aimlessly typing will somehow improve my writing. My appetites grew as I wrote, I set a goal of a 100 thousand words when I began, only for the cancerous growth to demand a 137 thousand words soon enough to be completed, then rising all the way to 140 thousand, and still I don't even know what genre it is that I'm writing. Is it autofiction? A comedy? A picaresque? Am I merely shitposting edgelord-triggering diarrhea in neo-emo gothic revivalist gestalt?
Regardless, I have failed, and even in my failure I have merely imitated how people who think they write well but write poorly write, and I couldn't even do that well. "Oh I can do that anytime if I wanted to" I thought, but no. My subject is too obvious, my narration wooden. I have put down my pen. Never again will my fingers click-clack across the keyboard. No more outlines, no more characters. Goodbye. I will take my own advice and go to the rope. Why live if you can't be a great writer, or even a passable one? And why write at all, anyway, if no one is reading anymore and Harold Bloom isn't around to insert us into the Canon? Learn from me! Learn from me!

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:50:31 2021 No.19259622 I now know the joys of writing everyday. Open that document as soon as you can, anon. You'll have fun.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:53:09 2021 No.19259637 >>19259088 >Post a upub to Nopy or something I posted an early version of ~40% of the novel. See >>19218109

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 11:55:16 2021 No.19259641 >>19259637 >40% of the novel You expect me to buy it to see the other 60%?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 12:02:37 2021 No.19259681 >>19259637 STAYVUN

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 12:14:12 2021 No.19259739 I just want to write a book, post it on Amazon and hopefully sell 10 copies. My mom will buy 1, 1 for myself, 1 from my friends so they can laugh at me, so I just need 7 more sales. You'll buy one right /lit/?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 12:19:03 2021 No.19259755 >>19259739 Sure thing dude.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 13:24:12 2021 No.19260023 >>19259641 Only if you like the first 40%.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 13:29:25 2021 No.19260039 >>19259739 If I like what I see in the "Look Inside" portion, there's a good chance I'll buy it. I like supporting unknown authors (being one myself).

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 13:38:03 2021 No.19260079

what are the chances of a literary revolution happening to the point where it becomes the most popular artistic genre in the next ten years?
imagine social media being swarmed with book discussion, writing commissioners being more popular than art commissioners and generals about individual authors being as populated as /vg/
I think that'd just be really neat.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 13:43:52 2021 No.19260117

>>19260023
Right now I can go to ca1lib and download 1 of 8,789,188 different books for free. Why would I read 40% of your book? The only interaction I've had with you has been you coming up to me with open palms shouting "Brother!".
You are a new writer who is floundering. You came into this thread asking for reviews, now you are asking for sales. You are not providing a service right now, you are begging. Be humble.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 13:45:07 2021 No.19260126 >>19260117 Wow. Guess I'll be more careful about what unknown writers I try to help in the future. For a moment, I forgot that everyone's an asshole.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 13:50:10 2021 No.19260169 >>19260126 The guy who tried to clean my windshield while I was stopped at a red light had a very similar speech.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 14:00:08 2021 No.19260236 >>19260169 Well, enjoy all the free typo fixes, I guess.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 14:12:48 2021 No.19260300 For every situation there needs to be a retard just to show you how not to act in it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 14:16:42 2021 No.19260316 >>19259739 I'll read and follow it if you post it on Royal Road desu

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 14:22:13 2021 No.19260330 >>19260300 4chan amazes me. A message board filled with people that slag others for no good reason, then bemoan how horrible their lives are. It's like they're all trying to prove, by counterexample, that karma works.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 14:24:08 2021 No.19260337 File: 801 KB, 640x480, 71.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19260330

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 14:55:47 2021 No.19260497

>have a great idea out of the blue
>excitedly think about the story all day
>finally get home
>sit down with a pen and notebook to sketch the outline
>doesnt seem like a very unique idea all the sudden
>start doubting myself
>realize all ive ever written is garbage
>give up
>repeat ad infinitum
Started regretting this post as i typed it out.
Help.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 14:57:13 2021 No.19260501 >>19260497 Give me a sample of your great idea. You've dropped it anyway so no worry of it being stolen.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 14:59:59 2021 No.19260517 File: 105 KB, 1080x974, 1634088957274.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19260497 exact same thing happened to me with this idea: https://justpaste dot it/1utv2 except it was a dream and I excitedly typed it down before going back to sleep

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:03:26 2021 No.19260540 >>19260497 >>sit down with a pen and notebook to sketch the outline Rookie mistake desu, should've just write

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:03:57 2021 No.19260541 >>19260497 good, less competition for me :^)

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:04:47 2021 No.19260545

>>19260517
because like at first I thought it was a great idea because it made fun of carnival antics, juxtaposed a fun carnival with death and as a bonus had some vain looking chick die in an explosion, but then when I woke up the next day I'm sitting there like
this is just a fucking episode of jojo

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:08:20 2021 No.19260561 >>19260517 >>19260545 This is genuinely awful.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:19:31 2021 No.19260608

>>19260501
Short story, around 20 pages.
>Young boy in war-time britain, whose father is fighting in normandy, gets involved in gang criminality.
>His group of friends decide to steal ammunition from the war supplies to fight back against a rival gang. One of them has an old winchester rifle, but there is a serious shortage of ammunition for 'civilian use'.
>He is reluctant to sabotage the war effort at first, but his friends manage to convince him that it is necessary.
>Before the robbery, he takes a walk around the docks and asks the workers if they know where the supplies are going, and they give him a vague answer that doesnt do anything to calm his fears.
>They go through with the plan, and get their hands on a decent amount of ammunition.
>Two days later, there is an army officer knocking on their door. His father has died at war with the germans.
That's about it.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:34:41 2021 No.19260679

>>19260079
In order for that to happen we need a revolution amongst writers, specifically litizens. Right now we're split between RR hacks just crapping out whatever, and isolated neurotics endlessly polishing their masterpieces, periodically emerging from their seclusion to request feedback, only to discover that nobody wants to read three hundred pages of boring drivel trying to ape the classics.

We need writers who are prepared to produce consistently while still maintaining fundamental respect for their audience, instead of F. Gardners who have apparently never heard of revisions, or John David Cards, who spend years polishing some highly personal bildungsroman and then can't accept that it isn't their ticket to literary acclaim. We need writers who are prepared to sit down with a style guide and re-arrange their masterpieces into something someone might actually want to read. Spend a few months writing something you're passionate about, edit it once or twice, and then publish it to KDP or whatever and move on.

If you study the really successful writers of the last century, Isaac Asimov and Anthony Burgess and William Golding, they weren't obsessing over masterpieces, and yet they created them. They were constantly producing, but their prose was always clear and realistic.

The quality they had that so many anons in these generals are lacking? Humility. They didn't say "Yeah my grammar and description suck but THERE'S SO MUCH EPIC ACTION it doesn't matter" and they didn't say "I can't bear to let anyone read this before I have achieved complete perfection because I've spent years writing it and I've basically sunk all my dreams of the future into the immediate success of this novel, so facing the fact that it might not be good is too painful"

Basically, if you're the first camp, you know what you need to do: learn grammar and story structure. If you're the second camp: A Clockwork Orange was written in three weeks. See if you can't produce an entire novel in one month. Flat characters, surface-level themes, boring description. Just get it done. If we had writers like that, really taking a step back and asking "what can literature do that a movie can't?" and applying that unique capacity to their own work. In the time it takes to make one movie that manages to really capture the "cyberpunk" feel, you could have a dozen men writing a dozen different novels, each one focusing on some unique aspect of the cyberpunk world. Food production, education, whatever. And the people who love cyberpunk will start to realize that books have more room for innovation, and they'll start reading again, if only to get another hit escapism.

Waldun is the only one who comes close to this realization. He clearly isn't attached to his work, but he aspires to artistic innovation and technical competency. What we really need is about a thousand people with Waldun's attitude, who spent most of their days waiting tables or manning an assembly line.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:37:32 2021 No.19260687 >>19260679 how does not being attached to your work help anything?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:50:58 2021 No.19260732
File: 284 KB, 499x559, 1531641483010.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

well, I've finally figured out the silliness of my problem when it comes to writing.
I fell in love with writing and reading in reverse order. While I loved reading, I fell in love with it combined with other media. Manga, movies, shows, books, I loved all of it. I wanted to make anything. And at the time, all a kid can do by themselves is write. So I wrote. I fell in love with writing before reading. Now I have no passion for the books, or even mine, but an overwhelming desire to make something, anything, and this still being my easiest point of access.
I say this as a bit of a warning I guess, for anyone as dumb as me. Read, love books, learn and love the craft before you go and make a mess of yourself pursuing something that has no gas in the tank. I have to restart and make up for lost time. But at least I finally get it.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:52:21 2021 No.19260735

>>19260679
If you really want that easy escapism money angle I'd suggest Isekai over cyberpunk. Or drivel like wine-aunt romance novels you see in Walmarts aisles and stuff. Cyberpunk? We kinda live in a cyberpunk world already—just not the cool depiction we frequently see depicted in media. I've always believed that a writer should write for themselves over money and fame so fundmentallu I disagree with most other other points—idnyouew really strapped for cash though, hate it or not Isekai is basically drawing furry art commissions.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:55:54 2021 No.19260757
File: 2.68 MB, 240x240, why'd you have to do this.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19260735
he never said a good writer was in it for the money. he's saying we need to walk the line between being a freak polisher and a shillbot writing serials. Take it seriously but not too seriously.
Writing truly is the shittiest art to produce why was I built this way

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 15:59:59 2021 No.19260777 File: 56 KB, 500x800, ErasedCover500x800.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Chapter 53 released. https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erased Hope everyone is making progress with their projects.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:02:06 2021 No.19260785 >>19259005 I've thought about doing the same. I would never attempt to get it published, though. Just something for when I'm older and my memory is failing me. It's too personal to me.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:07:44 2021 No.19260811

>>19260497
I've seen interviews with editors and one was an editor for Clive Barker. Apparently Barker has a bad habit of getting depressed halfway through writing a book and vents about how awful it is. Then his editor just tells him to keep writing and it ends up alright and he sells it. It's a really common issue even for writers who know what they're doing. If you don't have that much experience, maybe read some of the /wg/ OP links to get familiar with the writing process.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:08:44 2021 No.19260814

>>19260687
It allows you to take the most critical step necessary for improvement as a writer: actually publishing. Getting real feedback from an active audience, not from other aspiring writers who are just as clueless as you. Finding out what does and doesn't work. Moving on to the next project with these lessons in mind.

Anon asked if there was any possibility of literature regaining it's popularity against social media and streaming. The last time literature was really competitive was in the 60's and 70's. Part of the reason it was competitive is because writers were fearless about criticizing society and because they weren't hamstrung by a production budget. That's still true today. But a missing factor is that publishing used to be a bigger industry: paperbacks and magazines used to fill the role that smartphones fill now. And part of that is that these publishers had to compete against each other and therefore put pressure on the writers: give me a novel in six months or we drop you. Outside factors forced them to acknowledge the existence of their audience, and to work with them.

If you read up on the history of a lot of significant works, "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" or really any of the really significant sci-fi of the mid-20th century, most of the writers claim they didn't particularly like the work when they wrote it, they just needed to fulfill a contract or earn some quick money. Hence, Waldun. He's not trying to earn money, so much as cultural capital, but he still managed to put out two novels in two years. Because he doesn't genuinely care about literature. He didn't spend years fussing over it and making sure it reflected his unique personal tastes, he just wrote them and released them at a bare minimum standard of quality.

So let 4channelers take that same mentality and apply it to their own work. "I want to make thought-provoking literature, but I also want to satisfy my audience." Let the insanity of 4chan stop festering and start fermenting in your own mind. Look at how Frank Gardner has been received: I wanted to like this book, cool idea, but it was just completely unreadable. A Goosebump's-quality novella about a man trying to survive in the backrooms would probably take off, but no one here is writing that. They're either Frank Gardener "Here's that backrooms thing from /x/ come buy this" or John David Card "I have written the world's most boring book but I worked really hard so you have to like it" or David Bryan "I make dis myself!!" Bleh.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:16:13 2021 No.19260857 >>19259028 Sure thing, anon. And don't sweat it. I'll buy a copy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:16:44 2021 No.19260859 >>19260814 so what you're saying is, you make it by not taking it seriously? but when that works and you have something worthy of taking seriously, you still can't take it seriously?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:29:13 2021 No.19260928 >>19260857 Thanks, I appreciate it! Have you considered releasing a paperback version of your book? I'd buy it for my bookshelf & make up for the free e-book download.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:29:28 2021 No.19260930

>>19260735
Maybe you're in it for the money, maybe you want an audience. I don't think there's any really "pure" motivation for writing, there's always some degree of vanity or greed. I pick A Clockwork Orange for my example because it really hits all notes: serious literary analysis, pop culture influence, and financial success (not this particular book, but it did launch his career), and it was written either in three weeks or eighteen months, either one a fairly short period of time. He wasn't particularly invested in the project, just needed some money.

I chose cyberpunk for my example because it does remind of me of times when I've seen the type of attitude I have in mind start to flourish. The early days of creepypasta are a good example, but there was a similar movement briefly on SomethingAwful back in the day: seasteading. A group of internet libertarians wanted to build a self-sufficient independent community on floating platforms in the ocean, and SA mocked them by writing fiction based on such a community. Novellas, short stories, vignettes, fake news reports. Just piles and piles of fiction. The only remaining mention I can find is a tvtropes pages (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/InGoldenWaters).). These stories weren't outstanding literature, but they were getting read. If any of the "stars" of this temporary genre had wanted, they probably could have turned their temporary acclaim into a stable career.

So while there exists only one video game of such a concept, there are dozens of novellas and short stories on the same concept. People who played Bioshock and wanted more of that concept could have found it. Maybe they'd spend money on it, maybe they'd gush with praise for the author, maybe they'd just read it and move on. But those stories wouldn't have existed without the initial passion of the writers, they didn't just search for "popular genres" and slap a plot on it.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:33:04 2021 No.19260944
File: 496 KB, 1280x960, 1606572825382.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>19260679
Nice post, I appreciate this. I grew up on Isaac Asimov. My approach for writing so far is:
>brainstorm about an idea and make it into a story
>outline gives birth to characters, events, settings, etc
>1st draft just write
>2nd draft make sure it all makes sense
>3rd draft wordsmith and more intentional literary devices
>finish up with line-by-line editing
I'd been warned about the eternal rewriters and eternal outliners, so I've come to appreciate impetus far more. Trying to learn how to avoid some mistakes but accepted I will make them anyways. On the topic of aping the classics, I think writers ought to have more respect for their own voice rather than regret not being born 100 years ago. Our voice the most unique thing we have in writing and it deserves development.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:37:20 2021 No.19260962

>>19260859
Right now this is all theory. I'm attempting to write a novel based on the application of this idea, as a proof-of-concept. Taking an idea that I am genuinely fascinated by (cyberpunk but with the tech of the 2000's) and attempting to produce a serviceable manuscript that I will publish on KDP. Basically starting with a plot, adding settings, dialogue, and action, and just typing it up without stopping to ask myself questions like "Could I enhance the feeling of suffocation in this scene by usually more focused language?"

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:39:17 2021 No.19260970 >>19259501 Don't let that ass get to you. Even if the book doesn't sell, the learning experience of writing it will be invaluable should you choose to write another book, Every writer's first book is an autobiography, anyway.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:41:24 2021 No.19260978 >>19259604 From what you've said here, your book would probably go over really well on WattPad or RoyalRoad. Post it there!

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:43:11 2021 No.19260987

>>19260944
The whole thing is just something I'm trying to exorcize within myself. I'm trying to break myself out of the habit of:
>brainstorm
>outline (characters, settings, events, etc.)
>first draft, lose sight of outline entirely
>begin fixating on irrelevant details and backstory
>elevate secondary characters to primary focus in second half, lose focus of main characters
>go back and recheck outline, wish I had just written that story instead, now I have a bunch of work that is useless but I can't get rid of it because it was so much effort and some of it is really good
>Decide to take a break, write a nice quick novel for KDP, repeat the process
I've written two novel-length manuscripts this way, and I'm about to start on my third. This time I'm taking a bottom-up approach, starting with an outline and gradually adding info on top of that until I have a fleshed out story.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:44:46 2021 No.19261000

>>19253873
>>19253873
Pick any John Green book basically. The Fault in Our Stars gets a soft pass, but only because the book's subject matter gives the story weight and meaning that even a shit writer like John Green would find hard to fumble (hint: he still does fumble hard).

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:44:52 2021 No.19261002 >>19260987 define novel length. this changes how mad I am that it isn't me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:46:49 2021 No.19261014 >>19261002 I start off intending to write novellas. The first one is over 120,000 words. The second one is 60,000 words. My third novella is currently 5,000 words of basic outline.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:47:01 2021 No.19261017 >>19260978 That post you quoted is a copypasta from 10 months ago

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:49:26 2021 No.19261022 >>19261017 Then my point is doubly valid! That sort of petty drama goes over really well on WattPad! I only wish I could write trashy enough to succeed there.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:50:26 2021 No.19261031 >>19261014 Nice problem to have!

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:54:59 2021 No.19261050 >>19261014 I’m having the same issue. I’m 15k words in and haven’t even finished off the inciting incident. I thought this thing was going to be 40-60 pages when I stared.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:57:06 2021 No.19261060

>>19261031
Definitely. With the first and second, all I need to do is go back and remove all the superfluous bullshit. I am currently in the middle of revising my second novel, and I managed to catch myself before I added too much bullshit. Should be ready to publish by the end of the month.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 16:58:39 2021 No.19261070 >>19261050 Don't measure in pages, measure in word count. If it makes you feel any better my inciting incident isn't until 56k or even 115k depending on context into my story.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:02:19 2021 No.19261099

>>19261050
Where would you say the vast majority of your bullshit comes from? My biggest problem is endless justification, the protagonist acts the way he does because of his father, who acts the way he does because of the environment in working America, which is the way it is because blah blah blah. Every single character gets that exact same treatment. Even a character who does literally nothing gets an entire chapter devoted to her home life. And I got so fixated on that, I forgot that cellphones existed when my story takes place.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:03:15 2021 No.19261104 Days since anything halfway decent was posted: 13 >>19188360

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:05:40 2021 No.19261112 >>19261104 Be the change you want to see. We're waiting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:07:42 2021 No.19261124 >>19261060 Or just go full Asimov & release a long-ass novel!

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:10:20 2021 No.19261142 File: 1.37 MB, 264x264, 9C8153B1-ABE6-4058-8ECF-82AC21446A73.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19261112 implying he isn’t samefagging, no one even responded that well to it when it was originally published

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:12:40 2021 No.19261153

>>19261099
My story is the monster girl slaver story you might have seen some excerpts from in the last few threads.
I just keep throwing in world building on each race and techniques used in breaking. I feel like it’s justified personally but I can see an issue sprouting up with just how much internal monologuing is done.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:17:02 2021 No.19261174 >>19261142 Nah, he's not samefagging. I wrote that and I'm also the guy effortposting about "trying without caring" ITT. Not a terrible effort, it just lacks an overall story. More of a collection of cool ideas all slammed together.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:18:14 2021 No.19261186 >>19261174 Not a single person here believes that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:18:35 2021 No.19261189 >>19261174 You’re monitoring the general like a hawk then? Are you losing sleep over this?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:19:48 2021 No.19261199 New haiku drop: You're a cunt And you're annoying Please fuck off

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:23:04 2021 No.19261217 >>19261199 3/5/3 isn't a haiku.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:24:52 2021 No.19261232 >>19261189 No not really. I opened the general for the first time in three days, did a bit of effortposting, and then left the thread open while I went back to writing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:27:25 2021 No.19261248 >>19261217 Yes it is Dumb motherfucker Suck my cock

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:29:16 2021 No.19261260 >>19261174 Should have spent less time effort posting and more time crafting a believable reason for why you’d be shilling a 13 day old story that received no real feedback.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:33:04 2021 No.19261277

>>19261232
For someone claiming that we ought to remain detached to our works, you’re very invested in bringing up your effortposts. I read them and find them very simplistic, but that’s just how we have to be sometimes to make a point. I’m currently trying to become detached and write stories people want to read (e.g. fantasy adventure with a female girl protagonist). I don’t want it to be YA, but I definitely wouldn’t write this last year when I took myself too seriously. I’m not sure why following a style guide would help, like you suggest, because I’ve worked with style guides at work before for technical writing and it’s very bland, almost made up rules.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:33:36 2021 No.19261281 >>19261199 >>19261248 nigger hold your tongue cant write a fucking haiku philistine fuckwit

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:40:57 2021 No.19261312 >finish writing my robot getting raped >My friend asks >Why does the robot need to be a hot girl? How do I address this question in the story?

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:48:34 2021 No.19261349

>>19261260
I bet you're the one who posted it. You saw all the praise I was getting for my effortposts, and you knew that you could never write that good. You got jealous and combed through the archives for a story which matched my writing style. No doubt you could sense my devotion to the craft through my effortposts, and you knew that I wouldn't be able to resist using my own work as a teaching example, relying upon my knowledge of the writer's motivation to grant additional insight to his process.

You thought it would make me look vain and self-absorbed. Selfish. Ugly.

You thought it would make me look like you.

Well, you failed to consider my infinite capacity for zen self-denial. My profound humility. I have won, and the really funny part? I never even cared. While you were seething and gnashing your teeth and crying and contemplating suicide, I was just working on my novella and encouraging my writer bros to kickstart a new revolution in literature. Creating, building, dreaming. How does it feel? Caring so much, trying so hard, and not getting even half way to the summit of my own brilliance?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:50:00 2021 No.19261355 >>19261312 footnote: this makes my willy hard

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:51:25 2021 No.19261360 >>19261312 >robot getting raped Oh shit here we go again https://youtu.be/RIZqrO0mNi0

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:53:24 2021 No.19261369 File: 415 KB, 1433x1013, dealing with schizos.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19261349 >>19261260

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:53:52 2021 No.19261371 >>19261312 Just say how it was inspired by another person who was hot

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:56:05 2021 No.19261379 >>19261369 >Filename Schizoids aren’t schizophrenics, you absolute mongoloid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:56:35 2021 No.19261382 >>19261312 "It makes roasties seethe."

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:58:18 2021 No.19261385 >>19261248 No, haikus are 5/7/5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:59:20 2021 No.19261388 >>19261385 >Haikus are 5-7-5 You’re too dumb to know why that isn’t correct, western filth.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 17:59:23 2021 No.19261389 >>19261312 Why bother making a lifelike robot if it ISN'T a hot girl? Proof by obviousness.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:00:50 2021 No.19261394 >>19261388 Then perhaps you should update the Wikipedia article with your copious wisdom.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:04:12 2021 No.19261408 >>19261394 Open a fucking BOOK, not Wikipedia. It’s even in my preface to Basho by Penguin.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:09:18 2021 No.19261437 >>19261408 That still doesn't obviate updating Wikipedia. You can even footnote the Basho reference.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:14:47 2021 No.19261465 >>19261437 How have you NEVER heard that the 5-7-5 is an entirely Anglo artificial construction? Do you really think Japanese even go off syllables and not characters? It’s just common sense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 18:26:53 2021 No.19261521 >>19261465 So why not update Wikipedia, so we can bask in the glow of your superior wisdom.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:14:02 2021 No.19261779 >>19261379 Is that like the difference between dog shit and dog food?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:26:21 2021 No.19261827 >>19260928 I've thought about it, but I'm reluctant since the profit margin is so much lower.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:38:00 2021 No.19261898

>>19260732
Glad you realised this. I have a friend who has the desire to be a writer and doesn't enjoy reading. I keep thinking to myself, it's like someone wanting to be a musician who doesn't like listening to music.

To be fair, I don't think he is really trying to be a writer anymore. I think for him it was something to do that seemed easy to him.

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:44:10 2021 No.19261921

>>19261827
Still, it's better than the zero profit of not selling a paperback.

Also, paperbacks tends to cost a lot more than e-books, so people aren't going to buy them to save money, which naturally supports your e-book sales.

Just sayin'...I'd buy a paperback. I'm old school. LOL

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 19:51:49 2021 No.19261956 >>19261951 >>19261951 >>19261951 New bread!

Anonymous Wed Oct 20 22:46:18 2021 No.19262770

>>19261389
"I'm going to invest hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars into the manufacturing of humanoid robots just so they can be fat and ugly"

I'll give your friend the benefit of the doubt that they were checking your worldbuilding for consistency rather than them seriously asking such a retarded question.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 20 23:08:00 2021 No.19262848 >>19262770 Well to be fair, miniaturization is a process. Robots will slim down over time not right off the bat.

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