/CLG/ Catholic Larp General v4 - Underground Edition

[Anonymous No.19230111]

Talk about Catholic related Literature here.

>The Vatican website
https://www.vatican.va/content/vatican/en.html

>The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
https://www.usccb.org/

>Catechism of the Catholic Church
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

>Catholic Encylopedia
https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia

>Catholic Resources
https://www.catholic-resources.org/

>Catholic News Service
https://www.catholicnews.com/

>National Catholic Reporter
https://www.ncronline.org/

>The Jesuit Review
https://www.americamagazine.org/

Talk about
>The last Catholic related book you read
>What was the last Homily in your Church about?
>Who's your favorite Catholic writer and why?

[Anonymous No.19230140]

Is there a Christian form of Jihad?
The crusades come close but the loss of Jerusalem to the Muslims and persecution of Christians was the justification. Essentially, a defensive attitude.
I assume a holy war against those that wish to persuade people from the path of God is against the doctrine of love thy neighbour as thyself?

[Anonymous No.19230217]

>>19230140
No, because the Catholic Church don't start wars, but ends it.
And, not like Jihad, the catholicism must be propagates by catecism, not the sword.

PS: I'm Non-religious theist. Don't take my claims serious, I guess.

[Anonymous No.19230228]

Read Pascal.

[Anonymous No.19230229]

[Anonymous No.19230314]

Anyone else kinda uncomfortable when some e-Catholics try to become too much like their protestant counterparts by making it too much about themselves? Last year, I remember hearing grumblings about the Word on Fire Bible, Bishop Robert Barron's ongoing Study Bible series which has thus far only released the Gospels, for leaning too hard on his e-celebrity and personal popularity for promotion, the Crossway-esque slick advertising campaign, and for encouraging a consoomer-like approach to the Catholic Bible (i.e., the unboxing videos they made part of the aforementioned slick advertising). Whether intended or not, the result sorta places someone like Bishop Barron too close to John MacArthur terrority.

Then again, I feel a lot of the issues surrounding the Word on Fire Bible would've been solved had they just added the word "Study" between "Fire" and "Bible", called it the "Word on Fire Commentary of the Holy Bible", or just called it the "The Holy Bible with Commentary by Bishop Robert E. Barron". I dunno, I just feel icky about the Biblical text becoming an afterthought to the point of not even using the full name "Holy Bible" or having the decency to label yourself a Study Bible or Commentary on the actual spine and cover.

Anyway, speaking of Study Bibles, what's the over-under on Ignatius finally releasing the complete OT+NT ICSB in Fall 2022, like they're now claiming? I remember the ancient interview with Scott Hahn predicting it'd be done no later than 2014.

[Anonymous No.19230413]

>>19230314
I feel the same way. Maybe they're dissatisfied with the direction the Church is taking and deciding to take it upon themselves to start their own following.

[Anonymous No.19230437]

>>19230314
It's expensive to do the whole Bible in the way that WoF is going about it and the Gospels is a more relevant place to start than pretty much anything in the OT. I don't think WoF is trying to be "the definitive" resource on anything Catholic anyway but is more of just for reintroducing a lot of things to a generation that were only taught dumbed-down post-VII feelgood nonsense that clearly isn't working in the broader culture.

[Anonymous No.19230443]

When I grow old, I wish to translate the Bible to several endangered languages as a project.

How does the Church typically process translations?

[Anonymous No.19230486]

>>19230111

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20151201/was-peter-the-first-pope/

[Anonymous No.19230503]

>>19230413
I guess. Again, maybe it's just me (and the others who got miffed about it when it was first revealed) more concerned about the way it's being presented as opposed to the actual content. Nothing against Bishop Barron, but I'd prefer the selling point being "Hey, Bishop Barron wants you to read the Bible, so here's a Bible; oh, and he included some commentary to help you along" rather than "Hey, you like Bishop Barron, so here's a collection of his commentary; oh, also the Biblical text is here, I guess."
>>19230437
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if I eventually added the WoF to my shelf. However, I'm definitely going to wait until they've at least finished the New Testament before doing so. Funnily enough, it's probably the only way I'd ever end up with the NRSVCE translation. Again, it's not really about the content; I just take issue with selling the Bible specifically on the merits of the e-celeb promoting it rather than the Bible being the focus, because that remains me too much of how protestants sell their Study Bibles--less "here's a Study Bible in line with our faith" and more "here's a Study Bible by THIS GUY." Case in point: With the Ignatius, they didn't sell the RSV-2CE on the back of, say, Scott Hahn; they sold it entirely on its own merits as a tweak of the RSV-CE, reinserting more traditional Catholic renderings from the footnotes back into the text but trading out the classical language of thees and thous. They sold the ICSBNT on the back of Scott Hahn because it was (A) his commentary and (B) meant specifically as a companion to their Bible, rather than a replacement. Nobody bought the ICSBNT thinking they were getting a full 73-book Bible; they bought it because they wanted a NT commentary/Study Bible to go along with the RSV-2CE translation that they probably already owned.

[Anonymous No.19230536]

>>19230486
I wonder how JWanon would feel if he actually read philosophy and realized how utterly bereft of any true wisdom protestant denominations have in their theology

[Anonymous No.19230586]

>>19230536

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-june-2019/look-out-no-one-takes-you-captive/

[Anonymous No.19230664]

>>19230443
I guess you translate the Bible, present it to the bishop for the nihil potest and imprimatur and thats about it.

[Anonymous No.19230672]

>>19230536
>JW is Protestant
based retard

[Anonymous No.19230687]

>>19230314
I don't like bishop Barron either. He uses his He pushes too hard the Communio narrative of Vatican II and teaches, imo, unevangelical teaching like "Dare we hope Hell is empty" or the goodness of other religions.

[Anonymous No.19230690]

>>19230687
He uses his Internet fame to push*

[Anonymous No.19230711]

>>19230111
What exactly led to the popularity of TradCath LARPing in fringe political communities on 4chan/Reddit etc? Seems like it grew a lot over the last two years or so.

I figure a lot of the the more vocal LARPers would have "evolved" from American White Nationalism, which has historically been very anti-Catholic.

[Anonymous No.19230718]

>>19230140
Evangelism and martyrdom. If you want to die for God remember "the blood of martyrs is the seed of the church" - Tertullian. Further:
>Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.
Ephesians 6:11
> The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
2 Corinthians 10:4

[Anonymous No.19230741]

>>19230711
Just like the rise of atheist popularity = a bunch of losers trying to feel superior in some way

[Anonymous No.19230745]

Does anyone have any thoughts on Martinism? Its clearly Christian, and its structurally similar to Freemasonry, but as far as I can tell thats where the similarity stops and its not actually a Masonic body. The founder was Catholic. I know there are still lodges today, but can't find any information on how they square with the Church.

[Anonymous No.19230924]

>>19230111
>National Catholic Reporter

Can't remember who said it, but if you get confused between that and the National Catholic Register just remember that 'Reporter' rhymes with 'Distorter'

[Anonymous No.19230930]

>Papias went to the trouble of asking surviving disciples of Jesus and people who knew the apostles about Christ and his teachings
>We only have snippets of Exposition on the Sayings of the Lord

It genuinely makes me sad that we'll never have the full work

[Anonymous No.19230953]

>>19230111

[Anonymous No.19230961]

>>19230745
Pasqually's system was explicitly masonic (albeit a looser, earlier form of masonry)

Currently associating with masonic groups incurs excommunication so there's that. I'm not certain about his theology though, I haven't read Treatise on the Reintegration of Beings but if it implies some form of annihilation into God then that is heresy to the best of my knowledge

[Anonymous No.19230967]

If you lurk or post on 4chan you're going to burn in hell.

[Anonymous No.19230968]

>>19230930
Who knows? We might recover it from some monastery in the Sinai.

[Anonymous No.19231189]

>>19230930
I have faith it'll be discovered in my lifetime.

[Anonymous No.19231202]

>>19230111
"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Matthew 23:9

[Anonymous No.19231296]

Is Irenaeus worth reading?

I'm interested in that real early generation of Christians in living memory of Christ - Irenaeus was just one generation after but knew Polycarp etc. He seems to be one of the earliest writers doing big works rather than just letters

[Anonymous No.19231410]

>>19230536
>JW
>Protestant
pick one

[Anonymous No.19231467]

I keep thinking about the most unpleasant and obnoxious kind of Catholics.

Not in an edgy reddit atheist way but this is how I generally see people and extends to Catholics. More of a mental health issue I think and also the internet affects me I guess.

[Anonymous No.19231486]

>>19231467
Faith is very subtle and incredibly easy to miss the mark with

If faith is accepted for the wrong reasons it becomes autism

[Anonymous No.19231521]

>>19231296
>Polycarp
Vastly inferior to Gyarados

[Anonymous No.19231539]

>>19231521
>evolutionary theology

Heresy

[Anonymous No.19231552]

>>19230314
I don’t really like Bishop Barron, but that may just be because I prefer a different style of presentation. Well, that and his quasi-universalist statements.

[Anonymous No.19231559]

>>19231296
St. Irenaeus is always worth reading. Especially when you contrast how protestants describe the early Church was, and how Irenaeus does.

You can skip the first two books of Against heretics, because they are against gnostics and can be very tiring.

[Anonymous No.19231572]

>>19231539
This is a common translation error among those less familiar with Koine. Gyarados's position is metamorphic, not evolutionary.

[Anonymous No.19231573]

>>19230536
What the fuck are you talking about? Most of the great novelists from Britain and America were Protestant. And don't get me started on France; you will have a hard time convincing me that Flaubert was a great Catholic novelist.

Greene and Waugh are the closest you get to good Catholic literature whereas Huysmans, O'Connor, Chesterton, Belloc, etc. are indisputably second-tier.

Don't bring up Chaucer and Dante unless you want we wuzzing.

[Anonymous No.19231585]

>>19231573
How do you have novelists confused with philosophers?

[Anonymous No.19231629]

>>19230687
>unevangelical teaching like "Dare we hope Hell is empty"
Seems to be a recurring thing. See (21:39):
https://youtu.be/rbAQGvuoXwk?t=1299
>"Now, the Catholic teaches that there is Hell, but it's not necessary that there be anyone there. But Hell is for people that have known God and loved God and rejected that. Very difficult. [....] Only God can judge. So, the Catholic Church has never judged anyone to be in Hell. So, we do not say that Judas is in Hell, we do not say that Adolf Hitler is in Hell, [because] we don't know."
Was Fr. Martin Diaz of the Cathedral of the Madeleine talking out of his ass?

[Anonymous No.19231634]

>>19230687
>unevangelical teaching like "Dare we hope Hell is empty"
Seems to be a recurring thing. See (21:39):
https://youtu.be/rbAQGvuoXwk?t=1299
>"So, the Catholic Church teaches that there is Hell, but it's not necessary that there be anyone there. But Hell is for people that have known God and loved God and rejected that. Very difficult. [....] Only God can judge. So, the Catholic Church has never judged anyone to be in Hell. So, we do not say that Judas is in Hell, we do not say that Adolf Hitler is in Hell, [because] we don't know."
Was Fr. Martin Diaz of the Cathedral of the Madeleine talking out of his ass?

[Anonymous No.19231649]

Do you think we'll ever see another Counter-Reformation in our lives?

[Anonymous No.19231774]

>>19231634
He, like bishop Barron and Von Balthasar walk on the edge of heresy (apocatastasis), claiming that their teaching is completely in line with the teaching of the Catholic Church.

It is absolutely bs, Jesus clearly taught that most people will be damned (many are called, few are chosen; narrow is the gate that lead to life and few there are that find it).

It is also not true that the Church doesn't say Judas is in Hell. The First Vatican Council teaches that we must interpret Scripture according to the common consent of the Church Fathers (2nd session) And the common consent of the Church Fathers is that Judas is in Hell, and therefore, Hell is not empty.

[Anonymous No.19231830]

>>19231572
How do you explain what Porygon said then?

[Anonymous No.19231891]

>>19230741
/thread
/board
/larp

[Anonymous No.19231895]

>>19231573
>And don't get me started on France
You don't know shit about French literature.

[Anonymous No.19232061]

The Vatican II Sect is not the Catholic Church. After the death of Pope Pius XII, the freemasons and illuminati who had infiltrated the Vatican in the late 19th and early 20th century finally were able to "elect" a fraudulent antipope, John XXIII, who even took the name of the previous historical anitpope also named John XXIII. This papal name had always been avoided by previous popes due to the fact that none of them wanted to take the name of an antipope - but not Roncalli. During the 1958 conclave out of which he emerged "pope," white smoke was seen twice coming from the Sistine Chapel's chimney, yet the after the first time black smoke began coming out again. The fact is that it was likely Cardinal Siri (the favorite going in) was elected and then immediately afterwards the election was stolen. No Cardinal present has ever spoken about what truly went on because of the secret nature of the conclave, which is sort of similar to the seal of confession for reference. Many cardinals however have alluded to something sinister occurring during the conclave. Immediately following his false election, John XXIII convened the Vatican II Council, which would completely upend all the customs of the Catholic Church for the past 1900 years. Not only that, but this ecumenical council, which is held to be infallible, contains pronouncements in direct opposition to previous ecumenical councils, which are also considered infallible. It also contains blatant heresy aside from the logical contradictions. The only solution to this problem is to take a sedevacantist position, which is that John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II (cursed be his name), Benedict XVI, and Francis are all apostate antipopes, leaders of a satanic antichurch set up to deceive the masses and lure them to Hell.

[Anonymous No.19232089]

>>19232061
>The only solution to this problem is to take a sedevacantist position
Sounds like protestantism with extra steps

[Anonymous No.19232100]

>>19232089
not in the slightest

[Anonymous No.19232109]

>>19232100
>pope is wrong
>conclave is wrong
>hierarchy is wrong
>my idiosyncratic reading is correct
Sure thing Billy

[Anonymous No.19232111]

>>19231585
You sure are moving the goal posts quite a lot there, but my comment was with regard to theology. My point is that evidently Anglo-Saxon countries must have found something helpful in Protestant theology since many of the great novelists and poets were pious within their Protestant traditions.

>>19231895
I know enough about French literature to know that Huysmans, Mauriac, and Bloy are inferior to Flaubert, Stendhal, Hugo, etc. who were hardly orthodox Catholics, if you can even call them Catholic besides their baptisms.

[Anonymous No.19232116]

>>19232109
>>pope contradicts all previous popes and saints
>>conclave is sketchy as fuck
>>hierarchy contradicts all previous church teachings and supports boy rapists
>>my idiosyncratic reading is correct
ftfy

[Anonymous No.19232131]

>>19232116
Literally the only defining feature left of Catholicism apart from Protestant denominations is the papacy and its church hierarchy. Everything else is "Jesus loves you, we're an international NGO that does charitable work." If you dump that you're effectively a a high-church Protestant.

[Anonymous No.19232141]

>>19232131
>Literally the only defining feature left of Catholicism apart from Protestant denominations is the papacy and its church hierarchy
yeah that's literally what i'm saying. The Vatican II Sect is not the Catholic Church. it's fake. throwing out the Vatican II Sect's hierarchy means also throwing out their heresy, and instead choosing to keep the actual Catholic Faith.

[Anonymous No.19232155]

>>19232141
That's exactly what happened after the FIRST Vatican council and in the build up to the Council of Trent. Have you ever heard of the Old Catholics?

For all the sede talk about tradition, they sure are ignorant of history.

[Anonymous No.19232173]

>>19232141
>we're just bringing back the real religion
Yes the Protestant churches all agreed that was what they were doing, and made a variety of arguments for their ever multiplying cases
>>19232155
I just looked that up and some are apparently in communion.... with Lutherans! Interesting choice of terminology "Old Catholic." Lutheranism would be closer to pre vatican 1 or 2 Catholicism, not unlike how Quebecois French is more archaic than Metropolitan French.

[Anonymous No.19232186]

>>19232089
Nah, It’s just another schism.

[Anonymous No.19232209]

>>19232155
>>19232173
ok whatever, go worship you rnigger loving idol worshippng antipopes. when you end up in Hell, don't say you weren't warned

[Anonymous No.19232222]

>>19232209
anon even if you are right your average lay catholic is not responsible for whatever the pope does.

[Anonymous No.19232225]

>>19232209
Yes yes spoken like a true protestant, damn me to fire and brimstone for being an idolator. Don't you have some saints to pray to for your lost car keys?

[Anonymous No.19232651]

>>19230111
>Catholic
just read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_opposition_to_papal_supremacy
and convert to orthodoxy

[Anonymous No.19232697]

why do caths allow remarriage after spouse's death?
you promise them faithfulness until death and then casually do the same thing to someone else as if the first marriage meant nothing

[Anonymous No.19232768]

>>19230711
>What exactly led to the popularity of TradCath
The Holy Spirit

[Anonymous No.19232774]

>>19230711
It’s because traditional Catholicism is a value system that, in its opposition to the values of the modern world, appeals to the large section of young men who feel lost, disillusioned, depressed etc. And it just so happens that 4chan and Reddit are hubs for young men.

[Anonymous No.19232831]

>>19232173
I did not know about them being in communion with Lutherans, but yeah, the next big council do expect to see some more schism. The sedes are nothing new under the sun.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Protestantism as "a variety of arguments for their ever multiplying cases." The only distinction among the different sects that really has any significance is between Calvinists and Arminians on the question of free will and how it relates to justification. Other teachings aren't that important.

The Roman Catholic Church itself, by the way, does not have a definitive teaching on the nature of how grace and free will work together. The views that are tolerated within the Church actually contradict each other (see Thomism vs. Molinism or Thomism vs. Congruism).

[Anonymous No.19232900]

>250,000 years ago Homo sapiens appeared
>200,000 years ago Human language
>6,000 years ago Written language
>2,000 years ago Christianity
What was God's business in leaving people in the dark for hundreds of thousands of years?

[Anonymous No.19232913]

>>19232900
>>250,000 years ago Homo sapiens appeared
>>200,000 years ago Human language
these are bullshit

[Anonymous No.19232921]

I wish I could be orthodox (no church here)
I am not a catholic tho.

[Anonymous No.19233006]

>>19232900
>6,000 years ago Creation of Heavens and Earth
>2,000 years ago Christianity
ftfy

[Anonymous No.19233471]

[Anonymous No.19233672]

>>19230111
watch this video if you are not 100% sure of going to heaven. you can't work your way to heaven like the catholic church teaches you. a sinner's work cannot save you from hellfire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEawcSFuCTw

[Anonymous No.19233714]

I just want society to be normal and not degenerate. I hate "individualism". This is why I'm in favour of Catholicism returning even though I am not, and never will be, a Christian.

Good luck, larperbros.

[Anonymous No.19233737]

>>19233672
>spend entire lifetime having gay orgies, murdering babies, and committing terrorist acts
>1 minute before you die say "I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior!"
>get into heaven on a technicality
protestantism is so retarded it's not even funny

[Anonymous No.19233837]

>>19233006
>7000*
ftfy

[Anonymous No.19233850]

>>19233737
I mean, technically Mussolini got into heaven according to Blessed Edvige Carboni, so if he can get in, the rest of us really have no excuse.

[Anonymous No.19234181]

What publication company currently produces the nicest Douay-Rheims?
Recently got a Baronius Press Knox version and want a DR to go with it.
Also, what's the deal with the NABRE? Why is it supported by the USCCB if it has so many contraversial/contradictory to doctrine notes?

[Anonymous No.19234233]

>>19230314
Read “Bishop” Robert Barron’s AMA on Reddit, he excommunicates himself multiple times over lol. According to him it’s possible to go to heaven without believing in Jesus.

[Anonymous No.19234252]

>>19231573
The novel is what ruined European literature in the first place.

[Anonymous No.19234265]

>>19232131
> effectively a a high-church Protestant.
Nah, high-church Protestant services are way more beautiful and reverent than any Novus Ordo mass, at least in my experience.

[Anonymous No.19234274]

>>19233737
Stop misrepresenting the Protestant position. This meme needs to die.
Protestants believe that a genuine repentance is required, and you can’t just say the magic words but you have to feel contrite with every ounce of your being.
Some Protestants say that a person won’t even have saving grace unless God has first called him to Himself, and since you might know a person by his works, a murderer would most certainly be a reprobate no matter what he says at the last moment. To reiterate: there is no magic word, only true repentance can save a sinner.

[Anonymous No.19234297]

>>19234274
Baptists, at least, do not believe anything remotely like that, there is not a single “Protestant” position. They are also obviously full of shit, because true repentance the way they describe it is impossible, no-one is able to stop sinning no matter how hard they try to live in accordance with the law, that’s the whole reason the crucifixion was necessary for our salvation in the first place.

[Anonymous No.19234302]

Is it possible to get a physical copy of a Vulgate?

[Anonymous No.19234303]

>>19234181
>What publication company currently produces the nicest Douay-Rheims?
To my knowledge, there are three companies producing Douays: Baronius Press, St. Benedict Press, and Loreto Publications. Personally, I have the Baronius leather hardbacks (non-flexible) for both the Knox and the Douay, and then an RSV-2CE from Ignatius, and they all suit me well.
>Recently got a Baronius Press Knox version and want a DR to go with it.
In that case, a Baronius Douay would probably be your best bet to match the Knox (which makes sense, as the Knox was originally created to become a companion to--not a replacement for--the Douay).
>Also, what's the deal with the NABRE? Why is it supported by the USCCB if it has so many contraversial/contradictory to doctrine notes?
It's supported by the USCCB because they own the copyright on it because they created it, and as such it's in their financial interest to support it and direct people to it regardless of its actual quality. As for the notes, it's because the NAB was originally produced at a time when "historical criticism" was all the rage immediately following Vatican II, and the USCCB got caught up in it, and in the process handed the process of writing footnotes to people who weren't Catholic and didn't care for Catholic doctrine and/or got too experimental with academic theories that were popular at the time. And that doesn't even get into it being a dynamic equivalence translation (which isn't bad as a secondary Bible, but a bit eyebrow-raising for a main one). All in all, if you want a "modern English" Catholic Bible to go with your classical translations, I'd suggest the RSV-2CE. The Didache Study Bible version might be the most useful version of it right now if you don't intend it as your main Bible, as it's rather thicc.

[Anonymous No.19234309]

What's some notable Catholicism-related literature from France, Italy, or Ireland?

[Anonymous No.19234312]

>>19234181
Consider that the USCCB is a collective of homosexual child molesters and sexually compromised clerics who cover up for homosexual child molesters. You shouldn’t be turning to them for guidance of any sort.

[Anonymous No.19234317]

>>19234302
Yes, you'd be looking for picrel. Unfortunately, it's really expensive for some reason, especially for a non-leather hardback book that's still readily in print. Even the paperback version is expensive. For virtually the same price, you can get the Baronius "Douay-Rheims & Clementina Vulgata [side-by-side]". But that's if you're willing to fork over $100 for it.

[Anonymous No.19234328]

>>19234317
That's a shame. I wonder why - was it ever actually widely printed? I know Latin was more common before Vatican II

[Anonymous No.19234372]

>>19234328
It's more to do with the fact that the company that prints those hardcovers (the German Bible Society) mainly sells to scholars or researchers--so, think college textbook prices; they're expensive because they don't actually expect the common person to buy them, but rather people whose job it is to use them. The Baronius one is expensive just because it's huge. The GBS also prints the NA28 and BHS, too, which are the "critical editions" of the NT and OT used by Bible translators. They're similarly designed as that Vulgate: a hardback with textual variants noted and a bunch of translation jargon.

[Anonymous No.19234374]

What's some good writing to explain why Catholics are ok with cannibalism?

[Anonymous No.19234390]

>>19234374
Jesus is God so it’s not cannibalism.

[Anonymous No.19234442]

>>19231649
The next pope will almost certainly be a moderate compromise between the very liberal electors Francis picked and the traditionalists he radicalized. The following pope might be willing to clean house.

[Anonymous No.19234522]

>>19230314
Word on Fire Vol. 2, which will be the rest of the NT, is apparently coming out in January, so I'll judge it then. The leather version looks pretty nice ngl.

[Anonymous No.19234598]

>>19234522
I'm getting the hardbound instead, it'll fit better with my bible collection.

[Anonymous No.19234606]

>>19232697
"A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, as long as he belongs to the Lord. In my judgment, however, she is happier if she remains as she is. And I think that I too have the Spirit of God." (1 Cor. 7:39-40)

[Anonymous No.19234654]

>>19234598
It's just that there are so few Catholic Bibles that aren't just bonded leather that I'll take what I can get, if anything to signal to the market that Catholics want calfskin too. That and it means I never have to think about rebounding. Also, waiting until Vol. 2 is out increases the chance of them bundling both NT volumes together.

[Anonymous No.19234791]

>>19234372
So is that Baronius Vulgate Rheims combo not really all that necessary? How difficult is getting into Latin, boys?

[Anonymous No.19234797]

>>19234791
Here, have a sample page from the Baronius book.

[Anonymous No.19234809]

>>19234797
Huh.. and they make good quality copies eh? Might ask for this for Christmas I think.

[Anonymous No.19234865]

Real Catholicism has never been tried.

[Anonymous No.19235037]

>>19234865
How Catholic were the Papal States anyway?

[Anonymous No.19235078]

>>19234181
I have the Baronius Press flexible pocket size DR and it's very nice.

[Anonymous No.19235083]

>>19234309
Viper's Tangle by Mauriac

[Anonymous No.19235097]

>>19234181
>Recently got a Baronius Press Knox version
My man.

[Anonymous No.19235121]

Read Anscombe. She destroyed everyone she confronted. Her opponents admit her argument is better even though they don't want to concede.
>The philosophy examiners wanted to give her a First ... but the ancient history examiners would agree to this only on condition that she showed a minimum knowledge of their subject in a viva voce (oral) examination. Anscombe's performance ... was less than spectacular... To the last two questions she answered 'No', these being 'Can you give us the name of a Roman provincial governor?' and (in some desperation) 'Is there any fact about the period you are supposed to have studied which you would like to tell us?' The examiners cannot have been well pleased, but somehow or other ended up being persuaded by the philosophers ... As Michael Dummett writes in his obituary ... 'For the [ancient historians] to have yielded, her philosophy papers must have been astonishing'

[Anonymous No.19236230]

>>19234303
It looks like there's also Preserving Christian Publications' edition of it in black or red (pic related), which I found through the Angelus Press web store. I will probably go with the Baronius Douay. I was already thinking of doing this for the reason you mentioned (that it would go with the Baronius Knox), but wanted to get the opinions of some others before making my decision. I was also planning on ordering their copy of St. John Henry Newman's Meditations and Devotions, so I suppose it also will make for a simpler delivery schedule.
>It's supported by the USCCB because they own the copyright on it because they created it
>As for the notes, it's because the NAB was originally produced at a time when "historical criticism" was all the rage immediately following Vatican II, and the USCCB got caught up in it, and in the process handed the process of writing footnotes to people who weren't Catholic and didn't care for Catholic doctrine and/or got too experimental with academic theories that were popular at the time.
Ah, that makes sense. My first encounter with it was when I attended a Bible-study at a local Newman Center, and it seemed weird to me that the notes were so like a secular-slanted Oxford Study Bible/Annotated Bible. After looking into it a bit more I also now see that the paperback student editions are incredibly low-cost at around $7, which for having the deuterocanonicals and notes (even if they are controversial) makes me think it would seem like a good deal to a study-group leader buying in bulk to distribute/use in a group.
>All in all, if you want a "modern English" Catholic Bible to go with your classical translations, I'd suggest the RSV-2CE. The Didache Study Bible version might be the most useful version of it right now if you don't intend it as your main Bible, as it's rather thicc.
I've had my eye on the Didache Study Bible for a little bit now, I'll probably be getting a copy in due time. I've read a bit of the RSV and from reading up on the changes made in the CE/2CE, it seems like a good translation to use.
>>19234312
I'm not planning on seeking guidance from them, but their page is linked on numerous other Catholic webpages I've visited. I looked at their approved translations and found it odd that the NABRE was there. Their FAQ page on the Bible also has 2 separate questions about the NAB(RE), clearly putting an emphasis on it.
>>19235078
Excellent to hear, that's the size I was thinking of purchasing. Black, white, or burgundy?
>>19235121
My brother, it's been wonderful reading such a refreshingly different translation. I've been comparing it to the Douay-Rheims using BibleTime, one of the books I've especially taken notice of differences in is Ecclesiastes.
>A shadow’s shadow, he tells us, a shadow’s shadow; a world of shadows!
I like the use of shadow to render what is usually translated as vanity, a striking difference but one that in some ways may convey the original meaning to a layman easier.

[Anonymous No.19236236]

>>19236230
oops
>>>19235121
>My brother, ...
was meant to be in response to >>19235097

[Anonymous No.19236304]

>it's 4pm, time for your daily latin mass restrictions!

[Anonymous No.19236335]

>>19234390
God does not have a body

[Anonymous No.19236363]

>>19230711
Contrarianism, those seeking to reject the prevailing value system which is fluid and nebulous find its opposite in tradism- something concrete and absolute.

[Anonymous No.19236477]

/clg/bros, what's your darkest sin?

[Anonymous No.19236486]

>>19232651
>>Catholic
>just read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_opposition_to_papal_supremacy
>and convert to orthodoxy
more like
>Catholic
just read Apology of the Church of England by Bishop Jewel
and become anglican

[Anonymous No.19236521]

>>19236477
The story behind this image is creepy af.

[Anonymous No.19236545]

>>19232900
“That which is called the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist, from the planting of the human race until Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, came to be called Christianity.”

[Anonymous No.19236562]

>>19234274
>the Protestant position
No such thing exists

[Anonymous No.19236628]

>buy Ignatius from Ignatius
>reading it in public months later
>sitting under a bus stop
>one drop of rain residue falls on a page and leaves a stain
>ignore it
>next day a fly lands on a page
>blow it
>it doesn't move
>try to gently push it off
>end up squishing it and leaving a slight bloodstain on a page
Question: Would it be a sin if I ordered a replacement copy from Amazon and then returned my strained copy in its place while pretending that it was Amazon who sent me the latter copy just to get a free replacement? Or is it justified just to not give $30 to Bezos?

[Anonymous No.19236684]

>>19236628
dishonesty is a sin, though the temptation is great and I understand not wanting to give your money to Bezos, remember that it would be sinful and your awareness of the action being poor would increase its gravity
confess to a priest afterwards if you do

[Anonymous No.19236693]

>>19234606
yes, I know they say it's allowed but they never explained why, and neither did the church fathers or aquinas

[Anonymous No.19236704]

>>19236628
>Amazon
no

[Anonymous No.19236960]

Hello, I'm considering joining the Church.
What books for this feel?

[Anonymous No.19237007]

>>19236628
Yes, lying is sinful

[Anonymous No.19237234]

Do mainstream Catholics unironically believe in the occult and wicca and whatnot?

Blew my mind to recently discover that hardline traditionalists within the Church unironically believe that every bored, delusional idiot LARPing as Dumbledore is actually conjuring up diabolical/demonic power to perform magic.

Obviously Ouija boards, seances, tarot, psychic power, etc. are fake as fuck, though. You can't contact demons through a piece of plastic manufactured by Milton Bradley. Please tell me you guys don't actually believe this stuff.

[Anonymous No.19237261]

>>19237234
Catholics believe that demons are swarming around us at all times and that if we could see them, we wouldn't be able to see further than our noses. Once you believe that, the rest follows easily.

[Anonymous No.19237308]

What are some good books from a Catholic perspective against hinduism and buddhism?

[Anonymous No.19237325]

>>19237234
The medium is not the issue, it's the intent. If some wiccan thot thinks she can contact a familiar through a Ouija board, demons will take advantage of that.
Read this.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MK37K4F

[Anonymous No.19237334]

>>19237308
you should be reading books on the synthesis of Catholicism and Hinduism, anon.

[Anonymous No.19237344]

>>19237334
No. "Traditionalism" is a freemasonic front.
https://justacatholic.medium.com/observations-on-the-influence-of-the-occult-in-traditional-catholic-discourse-2d798e5ba51c

[Anonymous No.19237356]

>The Cartesian/Newtonian Metaphysics is a false pagan synthesis that has inhibited the superior scholastic understanding of creation
Any other books with this theme?

[Anonymous No.19237387]

I just had a catholic baptism. I am now officially a catholic.

>>19234302
Yes. I bought both of these from amazon for around 100$ each. The vulgate shipped from Brazil for some reason.

[Anonymous No.19237390]

Everyone loves catholics.

[Anonymous No.19237437]

>>19237325
>>19237308
Thanks anon, this is the exact book I'm looking for. I work in a psychology-adjacent field so am naturally extremely skeptical of the rite exorcism but intensely interested in it.

I struggle to believe that demons, conceived as conscious, willful malevolent spirits, actually exist. Evil does, sure, but this portrayal of it smacks of the anthropomorphization of the natural world that was characteristic of pre-scientific pagan thought. Aristotle, for example, believed that the velocity of falling objects increased as they grew more exuberant to be coming closer to home. It seems possible to believe in the divinity of Christ while also understanding that the Church has absorbed thousands of years worth of ancient superstition. I'm trying to understand if and to what extent my thinking is incompatible with the Church's catechism.

[Anonymous No.19237451]

>>19236960
Mere Christianity

[Anonymous No.19237524]

>>19237234
No, Catholics never believed in witch wicca pagan spell magic shit. It was illegal to believe it since like 400 ad when Chrysostom wrote it comes from pagan beliefs and it's all fake.

[Anonymous No.19237552]

>>19237524
Definitely fake as fuck. Some people in the Church definitely believe it's real though. Example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kQxJc8pAVY

Most of this dude's views are way outside the mainstream though, so I'm wondering whether this is an actual doctrine of the Church or just something dreamt up by deranged trads.

[Anonymous No.19237587]

>>19230111
I was raised a Catholic (went to Catholic school, did my communion etc.) and didn't even know there were people who weren't Catholic til high school. I've never been an atheist but I kinda strayed away from the religion; I've kinda felt a need to go back to it, though I don't think I'd ever be as "intense" as TradCath larpers.
End of blogpost.

[Anonymous No.19237590]

>>19237437
Jesus Christ drove demons out of persons and the apostles also did so in His name.

[Anonymous No.19237595]

I'm not religious. What do I read first?
>mere Christianity
>introduction to Christianity by Pope Benedict
I know only some basics of Catholic theology. I want to know more about the world, and now it's time for religion.

[Anonymous No.19237602]

>>19237524
>>19237552
It's not that witches themselves have any power, it's that demons will exploit their beliefs.

[Anonymous No.19237622]

>>19237587
It's easy to dismiss people as "LARPers" when you live in a state of conditioned apathy, but once you realize what's at stake and how far things have fallen, you'll understand. Read "The Plot Against The Church" by Maurice Pinay to start with.

[Anonymous No.19237661]

Do we have an actual Catholic general now? Or do you guys all post things like Vatican 2 bad heresy kill the Pope?

[Anonymous No.19237684]

>vatican 2 bad
>kill the pope

[Anonymous No.19237694]

>>19237622
I'm not from the US, I live in a city that is like 99% catholic and where many people are traditional, conservative, Catholics. I look at them with distrust because I don't know how honest they are, but maybe I should be less cynical. I might check out the book you mention either way, though I probably should first read the bible and the like to reconnect with the religion.
Unrelated but we had to read St. John of the Cross, St. Theresa and some other religious poets from the period for uni and reading them made many who were raised Catholics to consider reconnecting with the religion, even the more progressive, leftist, types. Most have probably read them here but I'd recommend them either way, they're not only great religious poetry but just poetry in general.

[Anonymous No.19237705]

>>19237602
But you're still suggesting that these people are playing with something that's real. The question about whether the epic ouija board LARP session is actually contacting the dead or contacting a demon is null, because the planchette doesn't move on its own in the first place. It's unclear to me why so many Catholics are willing to hang their hat on something that is so easily and obviously falsifiable.

[Anonymous No.19237711]

>>19237595
I've been recomended Fides et Ratio by John Paul II

[Anonymous No.19237717]

>>19237694
Where do you live?
>they're not only great religious poetry but just poetry in general.
I agree. I also like Hildegaard von Bingen.
>>19237705
Idolatry is an error regardless of how "real" it is, and can spiral into other errors.

[Anonymous No.19237730]

>>19237711
Looks great, thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.19237731]

I didnt know there was a general going. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted my own thread
R8 my books

[Anonymous No.19237749]

>>19234442
>next pope
he doesn't know

[Anonymous No.19237752]

>>19237730
Your welcome, anon. I wasn't aware it's posted on the vatican page

https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_14091998_fides-et-ratio.html

[Anonymous No.19237756]

Any young anons in the general discerning if they have a vocation?

[Anonymous No.19237772]

>>19237587
People have the idea that traditionalism is classy because of the epic Latin rite, but in reality you are often dealing with some real Westboro Baptist Church tier thinking. Based Pope Francis recognizes this.

[Anonymous No.19237775]

>>19237717
I'm from Mexico
>I also like Hildegaard von Bingen
I've been meaning to read her too, I should really do it soon.

[Anonymous No.19237851]

>>19237717
I'm not saying that it isn't idolatry, superstition, pride, and a litany of other things unquestionably considered sins within the catechism of the Church. What I'm saying is that it's made up nonsense that's not worthy of entertaining as real in any sense whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.19237863]

I have so much work I have no time for RCIA... Just let me get baptised...

[Anonymous No.19237956]

>>19232209
>>19232222
>>19232225
My Last Word on the Fake “Vatican Pachamama Idols” Controversy
>https://ericsgiunta.wordpress.com/2019/11/07/my-last-word-on-the-fake-vatican-pachamama-idols-controversy/

On the so-called "pachamama" Statues
>https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2019/11/pachamama-fiasco-hysterical-reactionaryism-as-usual.html

>>19232061

On JPII Kissing the Koran (?)
>https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2019/06/john-paul-ii-kissing-the-koran-dialogue-with-traditionalists.html

>https://jimmyakin.com/2006/04/jp2_and_the_qur.html

[Anonymous No.19237990]

>>19237344
Literally guilt by association purity spiral drivel

[Anonymous No.19237995]

>>19237334
This but synthesis of Catholicism and Shintoism. Does it exist?

[Anonymous No.19238011]

>>19237752
You're welcome* sorry

[Anonymous No.19238015]

>>19230111
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>>19234791
>>19234797
god isnt real

[Anonymous No.19238022]

>>19234809
>>19234865
>>19235037
>>19235078
>>19235083
>>19235097
>>19235121
>>19236230
>>19236236
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>>19237851
>>19237863
>>19237956
>>19237990
>>19237995
>>19238011
god isnt real. grow up

[Anonymous No.19238030]

>>19237990
>muh purity spiral
Narrow is the way.

[Anonymous No.19238033]

>>19237587
>I was raised a Catholic (went to Catholic school, did my communion etc.) and didn't even know there were people who weren't Catholic til high school.
This, but public school + CCD. Despite my best friend being Orthodox, I genuinely assumed everyone else was Catholic probably until sometime after confirmation, or at least believed general Catholic things. Not even a larp.

[Anonymous No.19238045]

>19238015
>19238022
>middle school mentality
>tells other people to grow up

[Anonymous No.19238059]

>>19238022
>god isnt real. grow up

But I have grown up and left behind childish things, like believing that everything evolved out of nothing.

[Anonymous No.19238069]

>>19237387
>I am now officially a catholic.
Glad to hear it. Keep the faith, anon.

[Anonymous No.19238088]

>>19238022
>>19238015
I'm not really Catholic. Just have some Catholic heritage and find it all interesting.

[Anonymous No.19238092]

>>19237334
This anon is selling heresy

[Anonymous No.19238098]

>>19237387
>I just had a catholic baptism. I am now officially a catholic.
Well done, brother.

[Anonymous No.19238144]

>>19237387
Blessed. I really want to add that Vulgata to my shelf, but the price is daunting for one hardback. I'm considering saving up for picrel and then putting off the Vulgata for later. But spine autism makes me reconsider and look at the NA28, even though I think the THGNT is the better GNT.

[Anonymous No.19238163]

>>19237387
The Bible in the original langues looks convenient. Are there notes or annotations and stuff?

[Anonymous No.19238172]

>>19237387
ywnbac

[Anonymous No.19238175]

>>19237863
Prioritize anon

[Anonymous No.19238182]

>>19238015
you are a sub zero IQ gorilla monkey

[Anonymous No.19238251]

>>19235037
Catholic enough until 16th century, around the time usury was partially permitted.

[Anonymous No.19238319]

>>19238163
https://bibletruthpublishers.com/the-holy-scriptures-in-the-original-languages/c-d-ginsberg-f-h-a-scrivener/pd8568
>Are there notes or annotations and stuff?
In the languages. Sample pages:
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.tbsbibles.org/resource/resmgr/store/page-samples/HBOGRCB-TS.pdf

[Anonymous No.19239032]

>>19233672
>willfully misconstrues the church's position

[Anonymous No.19239204]

How come the Knox translation isnt frequently on Bible comparison sites?

[Anonymous No.19239386]

>>19239204
It's pretty obscure unless you get deep into Catholic Bibles. Also, prior to Baronius picking it up, it had been out of print for decades.

[Anonymous No.19239559]

>>19239386
Ah very true, thank you. I think ill ask for a copy for Christmas lol,

[Anonymous No.19239615]

>>19239559
Here's some audio recordings of the Knox NT as read by Rev. Hugh Thwaites SJ. These are my go-to recordings if I ever just want to hear the Bible in the background, especially around Christmastime.
https://catholicaudio.blogspot.com/2007/08/bible-knox-translation.html

[Anonymous No.19239628]

>>19230111
>national catholic reporter
>america magazine
I wouldn’t link to dissident “catholic” media tbchwyf

[Anonymous No.19239807]

I notice that the average Protestant knows more about the Bible than the average Catholic but that Catholic theologians more often than not best their Protestant counterparts.

Are Catholics just less practicing on average?

[Anonymous No.19239858]

>>19239615
Oh damn! Very nice thank you! ive been listening to the King James on Audible but this will be much better thank you so much.

[Anonymous No.19240024]

Bros how the fuck do I convince the Knights of Malta to let me join them.

[Anonymous No.19240025]

Despair is said to be a sin in both Catholic and Orthodox teachings if I understand correctly. How does one overcome it, though?

[Anonymous No.19240037]

>>19240025
Despair is part of pride, the other part being presumption. By despair do you mean "sad because my life sucks" or "sad because I will never be worthy of God's love"? If the latter just realize that God wants you to be happy and wants you infinitely more than you could even want him.

If the former, that's just the tough shit of life bro and I feel that.

[Anonymous No.19240073]

>>19240037
I guess it's a bit of both. I feel like my efforts to change as a person keep falling short and that no matter what I do I'll keep pulling away from the right path even though I know the consequences. At times it seems like Calvin's thing about the predestination of souls was right. Compounding that feeling are some things I did when I was younger and dumber that hurt a family member quite deeply and continue to affect them - it feels odd to imagine confessing to them and being forgiven while that person might be hurt for the rest of their life because of it, and for that reason I've started to think of myself as undeserving of forgiveness. On top of that I have the typical 4chan-user issues - social problems, no gf, porn addiction, etc.
I'm not Catholic, Orthodox, or even a Protestant, really, but I'm considering converting to one of the former two, and I'm trying to figure out what doing so would mean for me.

[Anonymous No.19240077]

>>19230229
>>19230228
Wasnt he not a catholic, or had a very particular religious belief? I read Pansees years ago, liked it, but haven't recently.

[Anonymous No.19240155]

What's the Catholic counterpart to the King James Bible?

[Anonymous No.19240181]

>>19240155
If you mean older and considered traditional, then Douay-Rheims. It was even published before the King James Version.
If you mean based on the Masoretic Text and has a ton of different versions available to purchase with varying levels of quality, then NAB probably.

[Anonymous No.19240214]

>>19240073
Confessing a sin before God is not the same thing as remedying a situation between persons, but it is a great start. If you're truly sorry then you are forgiven in Catholicism even without going to confession in a technical sort of sense, but you should still make every effort to go to confession for it and doing so would be part of really being sorry. You typically need to actually go through RCIA to go to confession. I don't know how it is for the Orthodox.

>I feel like my efforts to change as a person keep falling short and that no matter what I do I'll keep pulling away from the right path even though I know the consequences.
In Catholic tradition there is only considered to be one real difference between Peter, who Catholics consider the first Pope, and Judas, the betrayer of Jesus. Both Peter and Judas betrayed Jesus, but Peter realized that his mistake could still be forgiven by God whereas Judas killed himself in shame.

I would first take care of the more minor issues in your life, you know them better than anyone here, and then by then you will be in a better space mentally and probably just life situation as well to do what you can about the major thing that is eating you.

[Anonymous No.19240255]

>>19240155
Douay-Rheims 1610 = King James Version 1611
Douay-Rheims-Challoner = King James Version (Authorized)
NAB/RE = NIV, TLB, NLT, others
Knox, JB/NJB/RNJB = CSB, EHV
RSV-CE/2CE = ESV, NRSV, NASB

[Anonymous No.19240286]

>>19240073
>I feel like my efforts to change as a person keep falling short and that no matter what I do I'll keep pulling away from the right path
Anon, seems you're on the right path. Sometimes Christ allows us to fall into sadness and despair so we can see that truly nothing we do of our own has any power.
I was like you too with the social stuff, but I've become a different person gradually starting from my first confession (people who didn't even know much asked me where I got the power to fix some stuff in my life), some sins seem like they were wiped out from me and I do not have a positive drive towards them, others are harder to fight, but I understand now that with Christ's grace and placing your trust solely in Him it is all possible.
>it feels odd to imagine confessing to them and being forgiven while that person might be hurt for the rest of their life because of it,
I have done things to close people as well, and not so close ones, even strangers. It hurt my soul when I started to convert and realize it was a horrible sin, but confessing it with faith in Christ really does heal the wounds and you do not feel the same way afterwards. It truly is a sacrament/mystery, not a formality.

[Anonymous No.19240290]

>>19238033
Yeah I actually had a prot cousin living in the US but I just attributed their religious practices to them being weird. I only realized there were noncatholics when a friend explicitly told me he wasn't catholic and was a christian either way.

[Anonymous No.19240521]

>>19237437
>Evil does, sure
Literally demonic. Evil does not exist as substance, only will of certain creatures as straying away from God is what "creates" evil.
>It seems possible to believe in the divinity of Christ while also understanding that the Church has absorbed thousands of years worth of ancient superstition
No, not really. Christ's divinity is based on the Holy Gospel which describe demons clearly, and early church fathers and even the apostles themselves also clearly describe them. You have to become basically a post-modernist atheist who denies scripture if you want to deny demons.

[Anonymous No.19240531]

>>19237356
Give me a tldr of his argument

As if you were explaining it to a mental retard

[Anonymous No.19240643]

>>19237356
Etienne Gilson writes about that

[Anonymous No.19240654]

>>19240077
The latter; he was a Jansenist, which is a Catholic sect, however, Jansenism was ultimately declared a heresy.

[Anonymous No.19240665]

How do you greet other LARPers on a Sunday? Hello. I've discovered that my BCP and the BCP in the calendars don't have the same prayers because mine is the 1662 edition. It's the 20th Sunday after Trinity today, right?

[Anonymous No.19240678]

Reminder that a return to the One True Church is the only way forward for Anglos now that the entire Anglican tradition is committing an hero

[Anonymous No.19240684]

>>19237863
Listen bucko, we have plenty of retards who don't understand the religion already, we don't need another one. Get to work

[Anonymous No.19240700]

>>19239807
Very different contexts. It's important to remember that in a lot of places where Catholicism was established like 15 centuries or more ago, it is often more like a folk religion than a structured system of mystical philosophy for more people. However, the institutional Church has had literally 20 centuries to develop its thoughts and ways of doing things, so their theological formation for serious theologians is very developed

Protestants, on the other hand, have a much shorter history and much less resources, so the congregations will be more devout and knowledgable, but the higher-level theology may get shat on by a competent Catholic theologian

[Anonymous No.19240709]

>>19240024
I'm pretty sure you just ask nigga

In some countries like Ireland you can join their Ambulance service too which might help

[Anonymous No.19240714]

>>19237387
Good job nigga, welcome

[Anonymous No.19240722]

>>19236304
>tries to ban latin mass
>fails embarrassingly

Lmao nice try

[Anonymous No.19240739]

Clerical sex abusers should be publicly burned alive in St. Peter's Square desu

[Anonymous No.19240762]

>>19240739
When did it get this bad? Child Molestors embarrass the Church badly.

[Anonymous No.19240780]

I've read the Bible and I'm lost in regards to chose between Catholicism or being a Protestant. I feel one should follow Jesus and its teachings, rather than rituals.
What do? Kinda lost here.

[Anonymous No.19240788]

>>19240780
Rituals were always a part of the Church, e.g. it was considered an honour when Polycarp was allowed to celebrate the eucharist in Rome - this was within living memory of Christ.

While I can understand the desire on the part of some for minimalistic worship, the fact is that beauty is very effective for helping people to understand divinity

[Anonymous No.19240814]

>>19239807
>Are Catholics just less practicing on average?
The element of salvation by deeds has made so that many Catholics see the Church as some kind of purity vendor. You do whatever you want, but if you go to church on Sundays and pretend to be Christian during mass time, and leave a generous offer behind, you're saved. And the Church is fine with this view, so why would a Catholic need to read the Bible or even act like a Christian? Protestants' faith comes from the Bible itself so when they ignore Scripture and act un-Christian at least they need to have a structured excuse to reinterpret the text (but the Bible says X). Catholics don't have to.

[Anonymous No.19240840]

>>19240780
>>19240814
That's how I feel, yet no judging tho, but trying to understand.

[Anonymous No.19240944]

>>19240780
>I've read the Bible and I'm lost in regards to chose between Catholicism or being a Protestant.
Catholicism, because it assembled the Bible in the first place from the separate books/oral traditions.
>I feel one should follow Jesus and its teachings, rather than rituals.
Then follow Jesus's teachings. Jesus clearly laid out the structure for his church, which then produced the Bible. This included granting various people "authority" over other members of his church--including, but not limited to, Paul, the elder from 3 John 1:1-10, Titus, Timothy, and others--who were not only granted that authority but granted the ability to give others the authority. As such, the Catholic Church for 2000 years has consisted of people who received authority from people who previously received authority from others dating back to when the aforementioned people received authority from those who received authority from Christ, and thus from God. They received this authority via the Spirit of Truth, as Jesus explained in John 14, 15, and especially 16. To suggest otherwise is to claim Jesus was unable to guide the church via the Spirit of Truth.

Matthew 18:15-17 is also especially important in this, where Jesus lays out the following process for dealing with sinners:
>“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
So, if someone is a sinner, you try to convince them to turn away from sin and embrace Christ; if they don't, you bring other people to help you convince them; if they still don't, you bring them to the church to try and convince them; and if they don't after that, you let them on their way, knowing you tried to save them. This is the system Jesus constructed for dealing with sin in his church (see Matthew 16:18); his church which, guided by the Spirit of truth, is to perform these duties. As a fun example, you can actually see that the Catholic Church applied this very system to Martin Luther, and he failed all the tests, and thus was treated "as a Gentile and a tax collector" and removed. The system worked, as Christ intended it.

The Bible is not the highest authority; God is. Thanks to God, we have Jesus Christ, who created his church, which had people to whom he gave authority, whom he could guide via the Spirit of Truth, which God sent to his church after Jesus ascended into Heaven and no longer physically guided them in human form. And, guided by the Spirit of Truth, they eventually compiled the Bible and the early traditions, due to the structure of authority stated.

[Anonymous No.19240947]

>>19240780
Have you tried praying about it

[Anonymous No.19241126]

>>19240944
Good post.

[Anonymous No.19241257]

I've always found myself drawn to the Catholic liturgy and theology but I often can't stand normie Catholics, the Pope's virtue signalling, priestly celibacy, and the overall dog shit attempt at ending all the pedophilia.

Books for this feel?

[Anonymous No.19241272]

>>19241257
>I've always found myself drawn to the Catholic liturgy
Vatican II liturgy single-handedly turned me away from Christianity when I was a kid out of pure undiluted cringe.

[Anonymous No.19241294]

>>19240025
> Despair is a development of pride so great that it chooses one’s certitude rather than admit God is more creative than we are

[Anonymous No.19241352]

>>19240521
>You have to become basically a post-modernist atheist who denies scripture if you want to deny demons.

Not really. Demonology was the prevailing explanatory model for extremely abnormal or wicked behavior when Jesus was alive and throughout most of history. It’s now described as mental illness. You don’t have to dismiss the descriptions of demons in the New Testament as metaphorical or made up. You can acknowledge that it’s describing a phenomenal reality, and that Christ spoke in the language of the time while healing people in what are now called psychotic fugue states etc.

[Anonymous No.19241354]

I bought this on eBay after reading some passive aggressive reply on /lit/

[Anonymous No.19241424]

>>19240722
besides fsspx there are only indults (aka cash grabs since they produce higher donations) in my area

[Anonymous No.19241490]

piracy is not a sin right? if it's digital it should be free right?

[Anonymous No.19241557]

>>19239615
Thank you so much for dropping this link, looks like he also did a handful of other readings on there including Imitation of Christ.

[Anonymous No.19241565]

>>19240073
>I've started to think of myself as undeserving of forgiveness.

Your forgiveness has already been secured by the blood of Our Lord, you don't get to decide that you are undeserving.

[Anonymous No.19241568]

>>19240684
Anon, I read like 20 books on christianity.

[Anonymous No.19241571]

>>19241490
You know in your heart that it is, on some level, theft. Dishonesty to Christ through wordplay and trickery will not succeed.
Repent, confess, and sin no more. Enjoy what is in the public domain or available for free.

[Anonymous No.19241573]

>>19241490
I think if someone demands that you pay for a product he's selling and you take it anyway, you are stealing. It doesn't matter if the product is reproducible at no cost for the seller, if there's a price tag and you're taking that thing without the price tag, you're committing theft. You may as well justify stealing from someone who is rich, perhaps it doesn't matter that you're taking one little coin from his hoard but it matters to you. To justify digital stealing over the ins and outs of what a file represents seems to be rule-lawyering to me.
I also feel like being hardline about piracy has made me choose better and drastically reduce what I "consume" since my money is limited. Many things are superfluous, you don't need them so much that you have to steal them.
My 2 cents.

[Anonymous No.19241577]

>>19241490
>is theft a sin

Think hard anon

[Anonymous No.19241612]

>>19238015
Le epic mass reply

[Anonymous No.19241679]

>>19241490
Pope Francis thinks you should get vaccinated. He probably thinks you shouldn't download books either.

[Anonymous No.19241715]

>>19241573
This is a very clear analysis of an issue that had been in somewhat of a grey area in my mind. And it has some good advice, to boot. Excellent post!

[Anonymous No.19241759]

has bergoglio come out as gay yet?

[Anonymous No.19241774]

>>19241490
If you pirated a thing that you would have bought if it wasn't available for free, that's theft.

But if you download a thing just because it's available for free, and you know 100% that you definitely wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't available for free, that's not theft because you wouldn't have given them your money anyway. Nobody loses in this situation, on the contrary, the company gains because you can recommend it to someone who will buy it. And they don't lose any money because you wouldn't buy it anyway.

[Anonymous No.19241781]

>>19241759
He's in good company by this point, half of the priests in the Church are fucking gay

[Anonymous No.19241818]

>>19241354
What is it

[Anonymous No.19241834]

Tfw no Order of Malta nurse gf

[Anonymous No.19241844]

>>19241781
>half of the priests in the Church are fucking gay,
>book claims

[Anonymous No.19241848]

>>19241774
>But if you download a thing just because it's available for free, and you know 100% that you definitely wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't available for free, that's not theft
So assuming I will never use a hair straightener, and assuming I would never buy one, if I go into a store and steal a hair straightener then I am not stealing?

[Anonymous No.19241856]

>And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

[Anonymous No.19241861]

>>19241774
>If you know you wouldn't pay for something but you would take it for free, then ifs okay to take it for free

This is literally what theft is retard

[Anonymous No.19241864]

>>19241848
>>19241861
piracy is different in that nobody is losing the thing you take
if you don't use it, it's as if you never took it

[Anonymous No.19241884]

>>19241864
Imagine you released a book that cost $5 to download. 1000 people wish to read it.

Consider two scenarios
>1000 people purchase the book
>1000 people pirate it

What are you losing in the second scenario?

[Anonymous No.19241904]

>>19241864
It doesn't matter that who you're stealing from loses "nothing", what matters is that you were asked to pay for a good and you circumvented having to pay for it.
If you think that selling digital goods is unethical then send a mail to the publisher and ask them to adopt a PWYW business model, or to give you a free copy of the good. If you are unashamed about circumventing payment you should not be ashamed of asking them to give it to you for free.

[Anonymous No.19241931]

>>19241884
He will argue that those 1000 pirates will speak highly of the book they stole and as a result of that there will be 10000 people who will buy it as a consequence, so stealing is actually beneficial to the person you're stealing from. It's insincere mental gymnastics that doesn't even address the core point: you should not steal. Someone puts something for sale, it's not yours to take for free, but you take it for free, so you are stealing. If you want to argue that giving things away for free then invite the publisher to give things away for free on his own volition.

[Anonymous No.19241933]

>>19241884
Under no circumstances will I be spending thousands of dollars of money that I earned working to rent digital media that can be denied to me at the whim of Amazon, Steam, etc. Simple as. I own my hardware, I own my media devices, I pay for my internet access, I’m not throwing away money for the privilege to access (not own) bits of information. Anyone who doesn’t like it can fuck off. We’re not talking about goats, fish, and bread here.

[Anonymous No.19241946]

>>19241848
>>19241861
Piracy is different. Literally no one loses. You can't take an mp3 track away from someone so that they lose it forever. And since you wouldn't buy it if it was available for money, you're not stealing money because they wouldn't get the bucks anyway.

You want X, you'd buy it but you pirate it -> stealing money, theft
You would never buy X, but you'll try it only because it's available for free -> not a theft, no one loses.

same way if you take that free thing and you like it so that youd buy it 100% just to use it, but you continue to use it without buying it -> theft.

but in most cases pirating is not a theft, youd just not buy it if it werent free

[Anonymous No.19241947]

>>19241933
>Under no circumstances will I be spending thousands of dollars of money that I earned working to rent digital media that can be denied to me at the whim of Amazon, Steam, etc. Simple as.
>I’m not throwing away money for the privilege to access (not own) bits of information.
This is perfectly right, but if you think their pseudo-rental business model is unfair this does not justify you stealing from them.
>We’re not talking about goats, fish, and bread here.
There is no such definition of stealing as limited to food and bare necessities. Find a DRM-free publisher and buy books from those, or download public domain media or free media from sources that actually publish it as a free resource.

[Anonymous No.19241964]

>>19241946
Suppose I hack into your computer and make a copy of your own private data for myself. I will not use this data for whatever nefarious needs, but I'll keep it. You didn't lose the data either. Would you object that I shouldn't have made a copy of your data? Would you be happy if I told you that you didn't lose your data, but just created a copy for myself? Do you think your wishes matter nothing in this exchange?
When you make this argument you are superimposing your wants over someone's property. Whether that property is digital and easily reproduced or not doesn't matter, it was not your to take because otherwise, the seller would have put it up for free. If you think you are in the right why don't you just send them a message and solicit them to give you their files for free?

[Anonymous No.19241967]

>>19241946
So if everyone who reads the book does so after pirating it, the author doesn't lose anything?

>N-no I'm just saying if some people do it it's okay

So it's okay for you to sin but not others?

Your argument seems to rest on the idea that copying is not the same as stealing. Even if this argument was accepted, piracy blatantly leads to loss of income to the author, a child can see that and so can you

[Anonymous No.19241969]

>>19241964
>Suppose I hack into your computer
anon, this argument is retarded, don't you have anything better? you're saying you'll break into my property and take my data, and compare it to taking some book pdf i wouldn't buy if it wasn't free

[Anonymous No.19241976]

>>19241818
The Cloud of Unknowing

[Anonymous No.19241977]

>>19241967
But you wouldn't buy that particular book if it wasn't free. You take it because it's free, you would never buy it if it wasn't free. So how can they lose money if they would never get that money anyway?

[Anonymous No.19241978]

>>19241946
>youd just not buy it if it werent free
well obviously you wouldn't buy it, given that the option of stealing it with impunity was made available to you
>>19241967
I think this argument shouldn't even begin, it doesn't matter if stealing it is beneficial or not. If I barge into someone's home and steal all his money, then invest it and give him back twice as much, I've still stolen from him. It was still wrong of me to take what was not mine to take. He didn't tell me to take care of his money, I didn't ask him to give me money so I could invest it.
>>19241969
Why is it a stupid argument? It's just files, you don't lose them, I get my copy, everyone wins. My point is that you probably don't want me to get your files to begin with and this is what makes it stealing.

[Anonymous No.19241979]

>>19241354
have fun!
>>19241818
title's on the side

[Anonymous No.19241980]

>>19241976

[Anonymous No.19241988]

>>19241978
>well obviously you wouldn't buy it, given that the option of stealing it with impunity was made available to you
you found some retarded meme book on lit, lacademie or something
you will never buy it, never
but someone posted a pdf on lit, so you'll look it up
now you're saying you're a disgusting thief and need to confess

>Why is it a stupid argument? It's just files, you don't lose them, I get my copy, everyone wins
because you compare my example to BREAKING INTO SOMEONE'S HOME and taking their personal documents
this is utterly retarded, you can do better

[Anonymous No.19241989]

>>19241977
See
>>19241861

You wanted to consume something that is being sold by a creator

The intention is that you can do so in return for payment

You are consuming the product without paying for it because you don't want to. This is obviously dishonest

You are saying that you wouldn't consume it if you weren't able to steal it, therefore you should be allowed to do so

[Anonymous No.19241992]

>>19241977
Stealing because you know you can get away with it isn't the same as a book being free. Books in the public domain, or officially given away/hosted online legally, are free.

[Anonymous No.19241993]

Convert to platonism heathens

[Anonymous No.19241997]

>>19241988
>you found some retarded meme book on lit, lacademie or something
>you will never buy it, never
No I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean I will download it. It's just an insincere argument. You're taking a pirated good, it wasn't meant to be available as a free download and you know it. If the author/publisher put it up for free then whatever, but downloading a pdf goes against the wishes of the people selling it, otherwise they wouldn't be selling it but giving it away.
It's stealing. You can get away with it 100% of the time and you can evangelize the stolen good to other people who will probably pirate it as well but maybe buy it if they feel like it, but it's stealing.

[Anonymous No.19242063]

give me one convincing theodicy that explains animal suffering and isn't a complete cope, then I'll convert to your roman high class christianity flavor

[Anonymous No.19242508]

>>19230111
Finally went to confession after months of not going to church, lads. Any cozy Catholic book for these feels?

[Anonymous No.19242574]

>>19242508
Calista by St. John Henry Newman

[Anonymous No.19242599]

>>19242063
heres a theodicy:
animals aren't sentient and don't fucking matter

[Anonymous No.19242670]

>>19242599
Animals are sentient and they suffer. You're being as much of a cunt as the piracy guys above.

[Anonymous No.19242689]

>>19242063
mans' sin corrupted the Earth and brought suffering to all who live on it
it is our duty to try to be as sinless as possible and act as good stewards for the blessed creations of the Lord, this includes alleviating animal suffering and taking care of the environment

[Anonymous No.19243112]

>>19241946
>youd just not buy it if it werent free

Or rather, and more realistically, if you *couldn't* steal it, you *might* buy it. But since you *can* steal it, you definitely *wouldn't* buy it.

[Anonymous No.19243148]

>>19241490
>Don't mind me, just pirating this fish and bread

[Anonymous No.19243196]

>>19243148
Jesus didn't steal the fish he multiplied.

[Anonymous No.19243351]

>>19243196
I think he is making a comparison of the multiplication of bread and fish and the multiplication of whatever you are pirating digitally
i'd rather have some nice bread tho.

[Anonymous No.19243367]

>>19243148
The people didn't pay the farmers for that bread multiplicated by Jesus, therefore we can say it's piracy.

[Anonymous No.19243397]

>>19243148
No one has mentioned that fact that pirating games or whatever is illegal and we are called to respect the law of the land.

[Anonymous No.19243409]

Lads by the grace of God I haven't masturbated or looked at pornography in one month.

My desire to do this has completely disappeared. If I see a thread with lewds I simply hide the thread. This started when I was saying the rosary daily and praying to God for chastity.

[Anonymous No.19243462]

Can someone please explain temporal punishments and indulgences as described by the Catholic Church? What does it mean when a certain devotion brings a "plenary indulgence"?

[Anonymous No.19243532]

>>19243367
Nobody owns or invented the idea of fish and bread. Bad example

[Anonymous No.19243577]

>>19243532
These guys are just bizzaro weird moralists. Jesus Christ himself would not have cared if you stole something from some massive corporation that actively hurts people by its very existence. Didnt he break rules all the time ? Didnt he say his followers can harvest and eat on the sabbath because the rules are retarded and get in the way of his people? Give your head a shake. You can steal anything you want from a corporation and Christ understands.

[Anonymous No.19243579]

>>19243577
Thou shalt not steal

[Anonymous No.19243591]

>>19243579
It isnt stealing if its from a corporation. Do you think Christ condemns the starving child who manages to grab a piece of bread from the corporation owner who sneers at him?

[Anonymous No.19243601]

>>19243591
>It isnt stealing if its from a corporation
Now thats some mental gymnastics

[Anonymous No.19243609]

>>19243601
Do you think Christ condemns the starving child who manages to grab a piece of bread from the corporation owner who sneers at him?

[Anonymous No.19243639]

>>19243609
What a deflection. Matthew 6:26

Now its pretty damn certain that Jesus affirms the Ten Commandments. They are not overruled. Ownership by corporation is still ownership. Christ does not tell people to get revenge on one's enemy, so the corporation's disdain for the child is not grounds for delegitimizing its claim to ownership nor justifying a sinful act against it. I think you're being extremely dishonest in your line of thinking

[Anonymous No.19243647]

>>19243639
I just want you to answer the question.

[Anonymous No.19243658]

>>19243462
https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/27435/pg27435-images.html#toc74

[Anonymous No.19243659]

>>19243647
I gave you my answer. You're engaging in sophistry. Corporations have legitimate claim to ownership you're objectively wrong to deny this. Encouraging children to sin is to lead them down the wrong path. Christ gives grave warning to those who lead children to sin.

[Anonymous No.19243667]

>>19243609
The analogy fails because you're not a starving child with respect to the intellectual property you misappropriate.

With that said, there *is* an exception recognized by Aquinas in the case of the starving child who steals food, as discussed in his Summa Theologiae, Second Part of the Second Part, Question 66, Article 7 ('Is it lawful to thieve in a case of necessity?'), here: https://www.newadvent.org/summa/3066.htm

[Anonymous No.19243669]

>>19243659
yeah yeah yeah, you didnt answer. Just give a sincere answer or stop.

[Anonymous No.19243670]

>>19243669
Illiterate fag

[Anonymous No.19243673]

>>19243667
based, i require the intellectual property in order to thrive, it is needful. corporations will burn in the hells. and likely so will you for your defense of them. Tax collector gentiles indeed.

[Anonymous No.19243675]

>>19243673
Render unto Ceaser

[Anonymous No.19243685]

>>19243670
You are the enemy of God, get behind me, Satan.

[Anonymous No.19243698]

>>19243673
There are hundreds of years worth of books in the public domain. You aren’t starved for entertainment, you just want to take without paying.

[Anonymous No.19243705]

>>19243698
I will not listen to you anymore, Satan. Take your ways elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.19243713]

>>19243705
>Someone telling me not to steal?
>Must be Satan!

[Anonymous No.19243730]

>>19243698
>you just want to take without paying.
Of course, and all the better for it. I exemplify the platitude that knowledge should be free and I steal everything, I share my crumb of wisdom eagerly for they are worth nothing and so on. But if MacMillan are so starved of dosh, buy two of every book if it pleases you, for my part I am a thief and a pseud, and damned proud, good day.

[Anonymous No.19243744]

>>19243730
>damned proud
You said it, not I.

[Anonymous No.19243749]

>>19243730
Based, Christ loves you.

[Anonymous No.19243759]

>>19243730
Based. I WILL download books. Getting knowledge is not sinful.

[Anonymous No.19243769]

>>19243759
Satan is literally in this thread using scripture deceitfully to defend the great ravagers of mankind, he will not dissuade us in our goals.

[Anonymous No.19243789]

>>19243759
remind me, what fruit was eaten in the first sin?

[Anonymous No.19243815]

>>19243789
get behind me, satan.

[Anonymous No.19243821]

>>19243351
It's a bad comparison because it isn't distributing free things that is stealing, it's the stealing that is stealing. Jesus isn't Robin Hood, there's no such thing as justifying stealing if it's from the rich. But this doesn't matter because this truly is a LARP thread.

[Anonymous No.19244338]

>>19243815
I know that you are an agent of Satan, you need not proclaim your master as a title.
I will not get behind you, I will face you and your prideful, unashamed sinning head-on.
Deep in your heart, you know that what you do is wrong. Even if you refuse to admit it, the Lord in Heaven reveals all mysteries. He knows your heart better than you will state to us, and it is His judgement that matters most. Sophistry will not deceive Him, wordplay will not trick Him.
Repent, and sin no more.

[Anonymous No.19244463]

>>19244338
I said GET BEHIND ME SATAN. NOW. YOU WILL NOT HOLD POWER HERE OR ANYWHERE. YOU WILL NOT TWIST SCRIPTURE TO HURT THE POOR. YOU WILL NOT COME ONTO MESSAGE BOARDS AND HURT THE WEAK. YOU WILL NOT SPREAD YOUR MISCLAIMS AND EVILS. LEAVE.

[Anonymous No.19244469]

>>19244463
Render unto authors, what belongs to authors. You are not entitled freely to the labors of others, cease this prideful nonsense. Your LARP is neither funny nor well-written enough to be believable.

[Anonymous No.19244473]

>>19244469
Yeah and neither is yours, you willfully twist scripture so that it hurts the poor. I said stop. and I mean it this time, no LARP. Stop.

[Anonymous No.19244499]

>>19244473
I'll bite this last time, you can live fine without stealing digital content.
There are plenty of free and or public domain texts to read, including many translations of the Holy Bible, theological writings, hagiographies, and general books available to all without theft. You have no actual need to steal, you are not harmed by not stealing. You choose to steal, and then loudly proclaim it with pride to others. Cease digging your grave deeper; look upwards and know that light still shines upon you even though you have fallen low.
Repent, and sin no more.
Good night.

[Anonymous No.19244576]

>>19244499
Stop. Just please stop.

[Anonymous No.19244610]

I'm not going to buy a novel written 300 years ago, lol. You didn't actually stop downloading books?

[Anonymous No.19244753]

You don’t even need to buy books in order to not steal. Just borrow them from the library.

[Anonymous No.19244776]

>>19230111
>>19230140
>>19230217
>>19230228
>>19230229
>>19230314
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>>19230437
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>>19230486
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>>19230672 >>19230687 >>19230690
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>>19234328 >>19234372 >>19234374
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>>19234598 >>19234606 >>19234654
>>19234791 >>19234797 >>19234809
>>19234865 >>19235037 >>19235078
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>>19236486 >>19236521 >>19236545
>>19236562 >>19236628 >>19236684
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>>19237007 >>19237234 >>19237261
>>19237308 >>19237325 >>19237334
>>19237344 >>19237356 >>19237387
>>19237390 >>19237437 >>19237451
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>>19241774 >>19241781 >>19241818
>>19241834 >>19241844 >>19241848
>>19241856 >>19241861 >>19241864
>>19241884 >>19241904 >>19241931
>>19241946 >>19241947 >>19241964
>>19241967 >>19241969 >>19241976
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>>19242063 >>19242508 >>19242574
>>19242599 >>19242670 >>19242689
>>19243112 >>19243148 >>19243196
>>19243351 >>19243367 >>19243397
>>19243409 >>19243462
God is real.

[Anonymous No.19244801]

>>19244776
blessed

[Anonymous No.19244813]

>>19230140
>Is there a Christian form of Jihad?
Not overtly christian, but western culture has agon, which is similar in many ways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agon#Religion

[Anonymous No.19244816]

>>19244776
Based

[Anonymous No.19244828]

Were the monks stealing when they copied books for the next generation? There are movies and albums that would be lost forever had private trackers not preserved them.

[Anonymous No.19244848]

Guys, kind of a weird question here but (and let me preface by saying that I am a Catholic) how do you deal with the reality of hell? How could a loving, omnipotent God permit such a place to exist? Why let people be born into the world if they are assuredly going to hell?

[Anonymous No.19244862]

>>19244848
>The actual truth of the matter is that God allows us free will even if that means that we choose to reject Him.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2015/10/hell-can-actually-be-defended-my-shot.html

[Anonymous No.19244873]

>>19244862
Yeah but why even allow a potentiality of it? Why not just destroy the world at the fall instead of letting countless generations go to the pit?

[Anonymous No.19244904]

>>19244862
To me (who is the above anon), and this is the only way I have been able to rationalize it, it exists as a sort of total inversion of God and his kingdom and people and things that end up hopeless, end up there out of necessity as an impure creature can not enter the kingdom of heaven. But what I still don't get is why does God not forgive these people? Maybe He does and they still reject Him at the gates but to me that still doesn't seem fair. Eternal punishment for a temporal existence that wasn't requested. Beings hurled into reality only to fuck up and enter hell for eternity. I just can't see how a loving God could allow that to go on. Imagine the suffering. And that goes on forever? No. Even psychotic murderers we don't torture ad infinitum. We put them down. We end things. Why doesn't God end hell? And here I go back to my suggestion that possibly hell is a necessary reality of existence. That God himself can't exist without a negative repository for the negative consequences of free-will. But that is contingent on believing God isn't all powerful which wouldn't make him God.

[Anonymous No.19244944]

>>19244873
I don't know the answer to that. But "Possibility #3" as set forth in this argument is one possible answer (emphasis on the word *possible*; I'm not saying it *is* the answer):
https://jimmyakin.com/2020/12/why-would-god-create-people-he-knows-will-go-to-hell.html

[Anonymous No.19244969]

>>19244904
>But what I still don't get is why does God not forgive these people?

I don't know the answer, but to the extent there is one, it seems to arise from the nature of free will. From which it follows, that in some important way, we ultimately become the sum of our free choices. And the person we become may not be a person who is happy in heaven, in a way somewhat analogous to the fact that Lucifer, presumably, would not be happy in heaven -- because Lucifer has made a fundamental rejection of God.

I would also suggest that CS Lewis's book 'The Great Divorce' may throw some light on the question. (It's a lousy title, but a very good, short book, btw.)

[Anonymous No.19245204]

New thread?

[Anonymous No.19245224]

>>19245204
hit it

[Anonymous No.19245290]

>>19245287
New thread.

[Anonymous No.19246210]

>>19237261
>if we could see them, we wouldn't be able to see further than our noses.
Have you tried Ayahuasca?