/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19221472]

I can't stop thinking about this goddamned cursed book during every single fucking day. It's going to get me killed.
The deepest, gravest pit of despair ever laid on a page was written by this italian autist. Unbelievable.

[Anonymous No.19221491]

Care to elaborate?

[Anonymous No.19221507]

>>19221472
>falling for Jewish memes

[Anonymous No.19221536]

>>19221491
never seen anybody make the human experience look so pitiful and pathetic, and it's not done in a highly stylized manner with flowery prose and artistry, it's very clinical, sharp as scalpel, tearing out any attempt a man can make to justify his means to exist as just another vain, sorry excuse. philosophy as surgery.

[Anonymous No.19221921]

>>19221472
bartleby psychosis

[Anonymous No.19221944]

>>19221536
why do you need an excuse to exist?

[Anonymous No.19222048]

I found it hopeful.

[Anonymous No.19222087]

>>19221472
Is this dude the Italian Weininger?

[Anonymous No.19222088]

>>19221536
philosophy was never science or real truth, it was always persuasion. some philosophers were more correct than others, but it's always been masturbatory

[Anonymous No.19222094]

>>19222088
Fuck off Marx, the point of philosophy is bringing it to life.

[Anonymous No.19222099]

>>19222094
Kind of a Marxish thing to say

[Anonymous No.19222110]

>>19222048
would you please care to elaborate?

[Anonymous No.19222112]

>>19222094
Based illiterate retard

[Anonymous No.19222140]

>>19222099
My quote is a reference to pic related. Marx was understandably pissed at philosophy's inability to address the injustices he witnessed in life. That's why he created a 'science'.
>>19222112
Marx didn't consider himself a 'philosopher', illiterate retard.

[Anonymous No.19222177]

>>19222140
Didn't know the Marx quote because I've read very little of him. I know about how he packaged his ideas as a 'science' which is largely why I've avoided him. Very dishonest.

[Anonymous No.19222191]

>>19222177
>Very dishonest
Materialism is as good as it gets for a science that is nearly 2 centuries old. His ideas shaped the world. Wagies, that is the vast majority of people have him to thank for the 8 hour work day. Marx dedicated his life to fighting for the rights of workers. Calling the man 'dishonest' is well— dishonest.
He would gladly take criticism, he was quite free of dogmatism.

[Anonymous No.19222198]

lots of rhetoricians itt

michelstaedter was a nuclear blackpill

[Anonymous No.19222250]

>>19222191
you have a bright career as a satirist ahead, anon

[Anonymous No.19222259]

>>19222191
>>19222191
I agree with the premise that human conflicts and beliefs are usually shaped by material conditions, and yes, that's a decent enough attempt at a political science.
The idea I reject is that shit about history only moving in one direction and all societies gravitating towards socialism. I don't even dislike socialism I just know this isn't true or scientific. While typing this I realize this might be an Engels idea I'm mistakenly attributing to Marx -- if so, Marx is off the hook.

[Anonymous No.19222268]

>>19222250
marx was good, chud.

[Anonymous No.19222298]

>>19222140
>philosophy is to science as masturbation is to sex
saves time and unwanted consequences?

[Anonymous No.19222325]

>>19222298
>enlightenment larper also passionate about jacking off
can't make this shit up. suppose it's to be expected when a bunch of hentai addicts start getting into philosophy overnight because it's the based and dark-enlightened thing to do

[Anonymous No.19222328]

>>19222259
>The idea I reject is that shit about history only moving in one direction and all societies gravitating towards socialism
He clears this up in the poverty of philosophy. No he does not say 'communism is inevitable' and even Engels admitted that their work being interpreted as 'economic determinism' as flat out wrong. I cannot remember the name for the life of me of that article he wrote.
>I don't even dislike socialism I just know this isn't true or scientific
I don't know what you mean by 'isn't true'.
I don't think it HAS to be scientific either—many Marxists would disagree with me on that though. You must be critical of people who adopt the title of 'Marxist'. Marx didn't like people who call themselves that and the bread and butter of his work is difficult for the layman to grasp.
You might want to get into Sorel and syndicalism, who after the 'Crisis of Marxism' 'rejuvenated' socialism and gave it some virility after it turned into a parliamentary and bourgeoisie movement. Indeed syndicalism was arguably the most genuine interpretation of communism at the time—following that you'll also want to get into fascism. For reasons that should be obvious after you study it.

[Anonymous No.19222392]

>>19222328
If Marx & Engels rejected economic determinism they didn't reject it often enough or loudly enough. Marx was comfortable with adherents championing ideas that he didn't subscribe to, as long as it helped spread the ideas he considered more important. This is visible in how he deviated from his own beliefs in writing the manifesto in order to make it more effective propaganda.

[Anonymous No.19222397]

>>19222328
>you'll also want to get into fascism. For reasons that should be obvious after you study it.
Daily reminder Bordiga rooted for Mussolini in WW2.
Fascism is literally a type of left-communism. That's why they opposed USSR lmao.

[Anonymous No.19222419]

>potentially interesting thread about poignant themes is derailed by marxfags
i fucking despise you all so much.

[Anonymous No.19222433]

>>19221472
Is this the book equivalent to Everywhere at the End of Time? It seems interesting but if it's just gonna make me go schizo I think I'll pass.

[Anonymous No.19222461]

>>19222110
It’s so pessimistic that it’s hopeful. It’s like the first step to the sort of great tragedy that ultimately redeems life for what it is. He basically just wants you to live in such a way that by the time you do, the fact that you ever lived at all will have been worth it, despite the complete horror show that is living. It’s extreme pessimism but it’s a different sort of pessimism than what you might expect.

[Anonymous No.19222493]

>>19222433
i don't mean this to be derogatory in any way, but how old are you, anon?

[Anonymous No.19222500]

>>19222328
>following that you'll also want to get into fascism. For reasons that should be obvious after you study it.
Nice try, but not subtle enough. You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.

[Anonymous No.19222547]

>>19222493
21
>inb4 just tape manipulation
I know, but having a family history of Alzheimer's doesn't help.

[Anonymous No.19222555]

>>19221472
Man shall not live from bread alone.

[Anonymous No.19222570]

>>19222555
sadly, many are led to expect the opposite. and that's a highway to despair.

[Anonymous No.19222593]

>The Michelstaedters were an Italian-speaking upper middle class Jewish family of Ashkenazi origin.
It's you're own fault for being a faggot, OP.

[Anonymous No.19222612]

>>19222593
the greatest philosophical works of modern times have all been written by self hating jews. this, sex and character, and philosophical investigations. if you want to go further in time, spinoza is the apex.
the self hating jew has an unparalleled wisdom

[Anonymous No.19222638]

>>19222612
based. don't forget weil and shestov.

>michelstaedter thread gets hijacked by marxist bullshit
americans are a disease

[Anonymous No.19222675]

>>19222500
>Nice try, but not subtle enough. You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
What the fuck are you on about you fucking nigger faggot. What the fuck do you mean 'not subtle enough', what the fuck is 'talking like a fag'? You fucking monkey nigger.

[Anonymous No.19222680]

>>19222198
>michelstaedter was a nuclear blackpill
I'm not read enough to understand it yet but I do have the book.
What would he say against Epicurus? The moderate hedonism and avoidance of pain - Not enough for him?

[Anonymous No.19222696]

>>19222638
>>michelstaedter thread gets hijacked by marxist bullshit
>americans are a disease
Waaaah why don't you let me be a nihilist prick waaaaaah
You are the disease.

[Anonymous No.19222923]

>>19222696
>michelstaedter
>nihilist
Leave.

[Anonymous No.19222925]

>>19221472
>listening to anybody who kills themself
big mistake OP. not even trolling right now.

[Anonymous No.19222934]

>>19222923
He shot himself

[Anonymous No.19222941]

>>19222934
you have to be 18 to post on this website

[Anonymous No.19222957]

>>19222941
>conclusion of philosophy is murdering yourself
>uMmMmMmM it's NOT niHiLiSM. hOw oLD aRE yOU????
OK retard

[Anonymous No.19223068]

>>19221472
I used to be real into philosophy when I was younger, I spent years grueling over fundamental questions of life, then I realized something;
No philosopher has EVER said anything of value or came to any real meaningful conclusions in any way, it's all a bunch of horseshit designed to keep you depressed forever.
Nothing will change that fact, NOTHING.

[Anonymous No.19223075]

>human trolley experiment
he was really prescient

[Anonymous No.19223098]

>>19223068
based and true-pilled

[Anonymous No.19223112]

>>19223068
then what is of value to you, anon? i see tarkovsky in that image, do you consider his works to be more valuable? why or why not?

[Anonymous No.19223137]

>>19221536
>>19221472
who cares? we all know you like feeling this way, otherwise you dismantle the feeling and do something else.

[Anonymous No.19223182]

>>19223068
i think philosophy is pretty useful intellectually. actually we are in dire need of it. you can easily see through things people take as obvious truth. and by people i include governments and academia. not a simple wrong or right, but where it comes from, its assumptions and form, improper scope, the conceptual errors and leaps in reasoning through association, etc.

i don't really care much about 'conclusions' because whether or not you have a conclusion, it will not 'solve' your feelings and will not substitute a full life. sure it helps but if you're so deep in it, your life and mind is probably fucked anyway and you can do nothing with it. besides that, many cretinous and unwell losers are so sure about their understanding of the world, no matter how trivial and arbitrary, that they think they literally know the world or that their word is the world. they don't do anything with this, they stay stunted and unhappy. other people in a similar position but less rigid and autistic, less obsessive, are full and happy. and have an inner wisdom from that wholesomeness that in some sense makes them intellectually superior. perhaps if they were taken to philosophy they would btfo them all.

[Anonymous No.19223188]

>>19223068
I think exactly like you, but I make an exception for a few books. This is one of them. Still, I think it’s a dangerous book and should come with a label that says “reader beware”.

[Anonymous No.19223218]

>>19223068
It's because there are no ultimate truths about life etc
"any real meaningful conclusions" just deny your and every subjectivity and you'll see the world and philosophy correctly

[Anonymous No.19223223]

>>19222612
Also Jesus

[Anonymous No.19223248]

>>19223112
>>19223182
I value people in my life, we exist for each other, everything we think or feel about the world or other people is a mirror image of how we feel about ourselves to a degree, Perhaps I was being too hyperbolic, I think Philosophy can have surface value, it can help people analyze how we solve problems to an extent, as anon below mentioned, but I think getting wrapped up in outcome dependence is a serious pitfall of Philosophy.
But I do think Tarkovsky had more thought provoking things to say than most, that's just my opinion though

[Anonymous No.19223552]

>>19222397
https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1925/05/speech.htm

[Anonymous No.19223664]

>>19223552
So who is correct in this exchange?
I really can't tell.

[Anonymous No.19223693]

>>19221472
Holy based

[Anonymous No.19223718]

>>19223693
I want to read him now

[Anonymous No.19223751]

>>19222612
Most of the ills of modernity is perpetrating by self-hating Jews. Spinoza served as the base for destructive Whig ideology that created modern liberalism. It's all demoralization, whether they want it to be or not.

[Anonymous No.19223989]

Wew lad