Psychoanalysis and Masculinity

[Anonymous No.19206854]

A couple of weeks ago, there was one of these reoccurring threads about loss of masculinity on this board. Usually the replies are full of meme answers and out of topic shit, but one anon recommended pic related. It’s a psychanalytic take on masculinity, the issue we as men face and where they stem from. I really liked it, I’m only superficially familiar with Jung’s psychoanalysis but I was able to comprehend the book and digest it well. I was wondering if other such books or texts exist where they tackle the topic of masculinity and how it develops in a person from a psychoanalytical perspective while also offering methods to heal. I’m asking this because pic related wasn’t really that in-depth. It was a pretty short read

[Anonymous No.19206879]

>>19206854
Symbols of Transformation
The Origins and History of Consciousness
Maps of Meaning

[Anonymous No.19206898]

>>19206879
What do these books offer exactly? Also I dont want Jordan Peterson he seems like a pseud to me

[Anonymous No.19206907]

masculinity is a social construct. when did people even start talking about "masculinity" and shit like that? my guess is like 1840s germany or something. anyone actually know?

[Anonymous No.19206927]

>>19206907
Of course masculinity is a social construct in the sense that each society has a slightly different idea of what a man is, but there are definitely instinctive traits that define masculinity. I think discussions of masculinity are somewhat synonymous with how to live as a healthy virtuous man

[Anonymous No.19206946]

[Anonymous No.19206952]

>>19206854
Bro we don't even use psychoanalysis any more. I can tell you a decrease in perceived masculinity is going to be caused by two things: the biological and the environmental. Bio = decreased testosterone and individual vulnerability to suggestion, and the environmental, the systemic (and yes this is true) oppression of men under the guise of equity.
>>19206927
Ignore those who tell you your pursuit of becoming the ideal man is a bad thing. Recognise everyone benefits from you being well rounded. Educate those who just parrot what they've heard, but be mindful of their position.

[Anonymous No.19206959]

i never understand this weird self-consciousness about masculinity, maybe cuz i had a dad.

[Anonymous No.19206962]

Iron John by Robert Bly is what you're looking for

[Anonymous No.19206966]

>>19206946
I’ll check it out thanks

>>19206952
Yea I know psychoanalysis isn’t popular anymore especially since you really can’t test it lol but I do believe there is some truth in it. There’s definitely a biological and environmental factor to how you express your masculinity but there is also a psychological one, which isn’t explored in depth in modern psychology. This is why I’m relying on psychoanalysis in this manner

[Anonymous No.19206970]

[Anonymous No.19206978]

>>19206959
You jest but it really is a lack of solid parental figures. My father was absent (physically and emotionally) and my mother was overbearing, so I grew up to be a really confused adult

[Anonymous No.19206986]

>>19206970
Is this book worth it? I heard mixed reviews about it

[Anonymous No.19206990]

>>19206966
>isn’t explored in depth in modern psychology
How so? If you apply banduras model that emphasises cognition's pretty heavily. Its worth pointing out the social/bio model essentially rests on the assumption that were exploring inter individual differences in how they affect someone.

[Anonymous No.19206991]

>>19206970
all that shit is normally referred to as toxic masculinity but since that triggers chuds that guy had to call it something else. by the way, when that author murdered his wife and killed himself do you suppose by his own definition that was "boy psychology"?

[Anonymous No.19207002]

>>19206854
I don't have an answer to your question unfortunately but I can say that if you were impressed by Under Saturn's Shadow you should check out some of James Hollis's other books. Like a lot of people I had an early midlife crisis when I turned 30 (yes, I'm a 30-something-year-old boomer) but Hollis's The Middle Passage really helped me deal with the fears and anxieties surrounding aging and mortality. He's really an expert on how to live a meaningful life in middle and old age.

[Anonymous No.19207007]

>>19206990
hmm tell me more, where do you recommend I should look into for social psychology?

[Anonymous No.19207010]

>>19206986
My expert (tm) opinion is that the author can't recognise mental illness. All these people would more or less fit the criteria for antisocial personality disorder. They seem to poorly be describing the environmental factor here.

[Anonymous No.19207014]

>>19206991
>it’s real

[Anonymous No.19207023]

>>19207002
Oh I’ll try to do that. I really liked how open-minded he is. Psychoanalysts rarely talk about gay people so I was surprised that he included them in his discussions. I’m glad he helped you anon

[Anonymous No.19207029]

>>19207007
Im a 3rd year psych student so I'm overall cautious of anything in book form. As dry as they are, textbooks are simply way more objective because they act as a meta analysis. Find a psych programme you like and get a list of their textbooks. In general bandura and vyrgotskies models are my favourite because they're multifactorial and generally well regarded.

[Anonymous No.19207061]

>>19206854
I do not see a single deifntion of masculinity in this thread

[Anonymous No.19207094]

>>19207061
masculinity is to get down in your knees and suck my dick

[Anonymous No.19207123]

>>19207029
As someone who wrote textbooks for years this is just a silly point of view. You'll learn a lot more from one brilliant expert than you will from textbooks.

[Anonymous No.19207135]

>>19207123
Hardly. The best approach for psychology reading is to read research papers. I can not think of a single psychology book that is not simply an opinion piece. By very nature of the field it can not be done. Or, unless you're reading anecdotes in which case they can be useful for clinical training, sure.
Do not confuse my argument with that against all books on stem and associates. The best philosophy is in book form, for example

[Anonymous No.19207893]

>>19206854
You'd benefit more from an ecomonic anlysis of the worker and technology. Man becoming an automon of machines and productive forces that in turn alienate him from cultivating a fuller self and his relations with women, children, others etc. seems more of the issue than nebulous daddy issues.

[Anonymous No.19208623]

>>19207893
books on this?

[Anonymous No.19208649]

>>19208623
Spengler wrote one, Junger wrote one, Heidegger wrote one, the entire Marxist school on alienation (Lukacs) etc.

[Anonymous No.19209018]

>>19206854
The Problem of the Puer Aeternus by Marie-Louise von Franz

[Anonymous No.19209065]

>>19209018
was gonna say this