/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19193586]

Dudes unironically triplehandedly ruined English literature

[Anonymous No.19193607]

>prepare for dribble, and make it triple

[Anonymous No.19193612]

>>19193586
They didn't ruin it. Their bad copycats and mediocre imitators did.

[Anonymous No.19193700]

>>19193586
pound and eliot ruined it far more than joyce did

[Anonymous No.19194319]

>>19193586
>angloid literature ruined by being angloid

[Anonymous No.19194341]

>>19193586
why is Eliot so w i d e

[Anonymous No.19194345]

>>19193586
None of them were English

[Anonymous No.19194347]

>>19193586
Post a picture with more talent.

[Anonymous No.19194390]

>>19193612
Yeah, it wasn’t the guy who wrote “The Waste Land” or anything. I mean, really. What is there to write after that?

[Anonymous No.19194428]

>>19194341
so based he must hold the other two up

[Anonymous No.19194488]

>>19193586
Eliot only ruined English literature in the sense that he perfected it and thus made any further literature completely redundant

[Anonymous No.19194500]

>>19194347
joyce a class mf

[Anonymous No.19194514]

>>19194347
>Post a picture with more talent.
easy

[Anonymous No.19194529]

>>19194500
Sure is.

[Anonymous No.19194532]

>>19193586
One citation by Eliot, one rant by Pound, and one fart by Joyce are worth more than the entirety of your life's work.

[Anonymous No.19194551]

>>19194347
This one nearly matches it, but Joyce's presence is too strong.
"In front of Le Jockey in Montparnasse, 1923:
Kneeling in front are Man Ray, Mina Loy, Tristan Tzara & Jean Cocteau. Others include Kiki, Jane Heap & Ezra Pound."

[Anonymous No.19194580]

>>19194551
I think this might take the cake.

[Anonymous No.19194584]

>>19193586
the three horsemen who buried English literature forever more

[Anonymous No.19194589]

>>19193586
no, retards like you that talk like niggers did. "dude" isn't a pronoun, only they is correct

[Anonymous No.19194619]

>>19193586
Pound produced literally nothing of any value and only existed as a very helpful advertiser for other talented writers

[Anonymous No.19194624]

>>19194619
hotake for a monolingual

[Anonymous No.19194681]

>>19194580
>Heidegger is a good example of how nothing is left but a number of ridiculous photographs and a number of even more ridiculous writings. Heidegger was a philosophical market crier who only brought stolen goods to the market, everything of Heidegger's is second-hand, he was and is the prototype of the re-thinker, who lacked everything, but truly everything, for independent thinking. Heidegger's method consisted in the most unscrupulous turning of other people's great ideas into small ideas of his own, that is a fact. Heidegger has so reduced everything great that it has become German-compatible, you understand: German-compatible, Reger said. Heidegger is the petit bourgeois of German philosophy, the man who has placed on German philosophy his kitschy night-cap, that kitschy black night-cap which Heidegger always wore, on all occasions. Heidegger is the carpet-slipper and night-cap philosopher of the Germans, nothing else. I don't know why, Reger said yesterday, whenever I think of Stifter I also think of Heidegger and the other way about. Surely it is no accident, Reger said, that Heidegger just as Stifter has always been popular, and is still popular, mainly with those tense women, and just as those fussy do-gooding nuns and those fussy do-gooding nurses devour Stifter as their fovourite dish, in a manner of speaking, so they also devour Heidegger. Heidegger to this day is the favourite philosopher of German womanhood. Heidegger is the women's philosopher the specially suitable luncheon philosopher straight from the scholars' frying pan. When you come to a petit-bourgeois or even an aristocratic-petit-bourgeois party, you are very often served Heidegger even before the hors-d'oeuvre, you have not even taken off your overcoat and already you are being offered a piece of Heidegger, you have not even sat down and already the lady of the house has brought Heidegger in with the sherry on a silver salver. Heidegger is invariably a well-cooked German philosophy which may be served anywhere and at any time, Reger said, in any household. I do not know of any philosopher today who has been more degraded, Reger said. Anyway, Heidegger is finished as far as philosophy is concerned, whereas ten years ago he was still the great thinker, he now, as it were, only haunts pseudo-intellectual households and pseudo-intellectual parties, adding an artificial mendaciousness to their entirely natural one. Like Stifter, Heidegger is a tasteless and readily digestible reader's pudding for the mediocre German mind.

[Anonymous No.19194785]

>>19194390
The Bridge

[Anonymous No.19194807]

>>19193612
That's what i said. They ruined literature.

[Anonymous No.19194815]

>>19193612
>Their
lmao

[Anonymous No.19194829]

>>19194681
This isn't a philosophical criticism or novel insult, I don't know why you keep posting this.

[Anonymous No.19194842]

>>19194390
What are you even trying to say?

[Anonymous No.19195954]

>>19194681
Nap time already?

[Anonymous No.19196287]

>>19194785
BASED. The existence of crane validates the existence of eliot and pound. Fine poet and thinker but crane far exceeds eliot.

[Anonymous No.19196631]

>>19194347

[Anonymous No.19196637]

Has anyone read pic related?

[Anonymous No.19196641]

>>19193612
Similarly with Wagner and music.

[Anonymous No.19196643]

>>19196641
I don't know anything about Wagner, could you point me in the direction of a good place to start?

[Anonymous No.19196682]

>>19194681
Bernhard was gay for Heidi, this is just cope

[Anonymous No.19196689]

>>19196682
do not confuse the author and the narrator
the words are of the latter

[Anonymous No.19196775]

>>19196643
Wagner revolutionized 19th century opera and Western harmony. His first works are typical operas with closed sections, but were already quite stretched. Soon he started writing some interesting essays (like Art and Revolution) and conceived of a unified work of art which would join several different art forms. He was primarily a man of theatre and for him opera was too much music and not enough action. At the same time he also religiously listened to Beethoven's symphonies and used his logic of thematic uniformity and narrative (even Beethoven's instrumental music always has a strong feeling of narrative and it wants to communicate ideas and his (liberal) worldview, he even added a choir to his final symphony, which you probably know) in these works to achieve greater homogeneity and communicativeness. The concept of leitmotifs is extremely interesting; every important character, item, notion etc. has its own motif, but some are grouped together, connected, and they constantly transform depending on the psychology of the characters or the situations.
All of this together resulted in "music dramas", which are like operas but with a free-flowing burst of hypnotizing music in the service of drama. Ironically, Wagner is known to the mainstream for his "instrumental" parts, i.e. preludes and parts of his operas, but that's missing the point entirely.
I obviously recommend watching his works in full. I started with Der Ring Des Nibelung, specifically the Boulez and Chereau production, which looks fantastic in my opinion, but music-wise it leaves a lot to be desired. It still got me hooked. And don't let the fantasy fool you, it just seemed to Wagner that (usually Germanic) mythology is the most appropriate subject matter to communicate his worldview and ideas. Look beyond that, the Ring deals with plenty of things; greed, the subconscious, it's very Freudian.
Other good places to start are early Wagner like Tannhäuser or Lohengrin, or something like Tristan und Isolde (most important contribution to Western harmony, it basically started the end of tonality in the late 19th/early 20th century) or Parsifal, which are extremely transcendental (Schopenhauer and Buddhism become massive influences).
I'm new to this stuff as well, but hopefully this gives you a good starting point.

[Anonymous No.19196877]

>>19196631
Hahahaha what is Gaddis doing!

[Anonymous No.19196880]

>>19196631
BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL BILL

[Anonymous No.19196886]

>>19194347

[Anonymous No.19196946]

>>19193586
English literature has always been fucked

[Anonymous No.19197000]

>>19196886
>Finnish people think Sibelius made something other than glorified pop music

[Anonymous No.19197232]

>>19196877
>>19196880
The absolute mad man, there was simply no stopping him

[Anonymous No.19197564]

>>19194619
Have you ever read him?

[Anonymous No.19197577]

>>19194807
How so?

[Anonymous No.19197588]

>>19194807
No.

[Anonymous No.19197599]

>>19196631
literally who

[Anonymous No.19197683]

>>19196637
> pound joyce
Read that again.

[Anonymous No.19197781]

>>19194681
This is the type of thing some retard sperg tells everyone is satire after smarter, more level-headed people in their gracious humanity praise it as satire with a good faith slap on the back---when in fact the retard sperg was really being embarassingly sincere at the time. Perfectly understandable to 4chan posters.

[Anonymous No.19198044]

>>19196637
I've read a quarter to half of it, I got the impression it was mostly Ezra Pound helping out Joyce with money and the rest of it being smatterings of what Pound enjoyed in Joyce's work

[Anonymous No.19198571]

>>19197599
Titans of post-war American fiction and postmodernism
BARTHELME, Donald
BARTH, John
COOVER, Robert
HAWKES, John
VONNEGUT, Kurt
ABISH, Walter
GADDIS, William
GASS, William H.

[Anonymous No.19199889]

>>19196637
>Has anyone read
do you know where you are ?

[Anonymous No.19199952]

>>19194514
Based. Wish I was born French.

[Anonymous No.19201463]

Picked up Personae today lads, looking forward to it. Already have read Joyce (minus The Wake) and Eliot (minus the plays)

[Anonymous No.19201484]

>>19196287
Notice how no fans of Eliot ever try to argue he’s better than Crane or Stevens. Do Hart Crane fans have some type of insecurity where they must constantly compare Crane to a true master in Eliot? Or do they just consciously understand their opinions come from a place of contrarianism? You cannot bring up Eliot without some Cranecel bringing up his pansy ass poetry

[Anonymous No.19201487]

>>19198571
Who are the chicks?

[Anonymous No.19201495]

>>19201484
Do not disrespect crane faggot

[Anonymous No.19201606]

>>19201487
Wives

[Anonymous No.19202290]

>>19196886
>the worst composer in the world