Literature explaining temptations

[Anonymous No.19185229]

How was Christ tempted by the demon when He was God, the Logos?

[Anonymous No.19185285]

>>19185229
There's a difference between being tempted and being temped if you know what I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.19185290]

Because He has both a divine and human nature

[Anonymous No.19185300]

>>19185229
*tempted

[Anonymous No.19185301]

>>19185290
This is the best answer

[Anonymous No.19185407]

>>19185229
You mean, when incarnate as a man?

[Anonymous No.19185419]

Satan’s literally dumb enough to think he can tempt God. Just think about that

[Anonymous No.19185479]

>>19185419
This. Why did the demon even think He could tempt Christ and make Him fall like He made Adam? I understand that Christ has human nature, that He has blameless passions the demon could see and try to tempt, but it is still very weird.

Also, did Satan even know that he was dealing with the Logos or did he think He was just another prophet (possibly not even the Messiah)? I have heard that the betrothal of the Blessed Virgin to St. Joseph was also God's way of concealing the birth of the Messiah from even the demons, since Satan knew He had to be born of a virgin.

[Anonymous No.19185484]

>>19185479
>I have heard that the betrothal of the Blessed Virgin to St. Joseph was also God's way of concealing the birth of the Messiah from even the demons, since Satan knew He had to be born of a virgin.
Really interesting

[Anonymous No.19185550]

>>19185290
/thread
to the demons He just looked like Adam.

[Anonymous No.19185583]

>>19185229
Rene Girard

Violence and the Sacred
Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World

[Anonymous No.19185590]

>>19185479
>>19185419
Because Arius was right. Acts 7:55-56

[Anonymous No.19185616]

>>19185590
John 1, heretic

[Anonymous No.19185648]

>>19185229
Because it's not real retards. It's all a larp.

[Anonymous No.19185696]

>>19185590
>>Acts 7:55-56
>Implying this verse proves "Arianism" and not that Christ ascended bodily into heaven to reign as God in His full humanity, refuting both "Arianism" and "gnosticism".
The demon has control over your intellect anon.

[Anonymous No.19185756]

>>19185229

He was tempted by the Father.

[Anonymous No.19185764]

>>19185229
Cos he was also a chap.
Its pretty clear on this anon. Even the gospel lost focused on the metaphysical nature of christ makes a pretty important point about him being made flesh.

[Anonymous No.19185778]

>>19185756
>He was tempted by the Father.

[Anonymous No.19185805]

>>19185778

Who owns all the Kingdoms of the world?

[Anonymous No.19185824]

>>19185805
Satan is the king of this world. 2 Corinthians 4:4, John 12:31, Ephesians 2:2

[Anonymous No.19185825]

Glad there are other Orthodox on /lit/

[Anonymous No.19185832]

>>19185824

Who enthroned him?

[Anonymous No.19185840]

>>19185229
Why is it bad when Satan offers world-domination in exchange for exclusive worship but its okay when Yahweh offers the exact same deal to the Israelites?

[Anonymous No.19185843]

>>19185229
The Temptations Of Saint Anthony by Flaubert might be something you want to check out

[Anonymous No.19185846]

>>19185832
He rebelled against God. God is perfectly sovereign. When things rebel against God, God uses them either to further his glory, or to either bring more men to salvation. God also allows things for the purposes of preserving freedom of will. Satan serves a purpose, so God permits him to act, although to bring about a greater good.

[Anonymous No.19185853]

>>19185846

What distinguishes this statement from "God enthroned Satan"?

[Anonymous No.19185854]

>>19185840
Process of ascending consciousness of civilization, culture, community ethos, etc.
Reading the books here >>19185583 will help to make you understand a bit more.

[Anonymous No.19185858]

>>19185840
Do you think that stiff-necked and stubborn Israelites could have been convinced to follow God in any other way? God told them simply that if they followed his commandments, they would be prosperous, and if they didn’t, they would perish. The entire purpose of Israel was to forge a nation that would deliver Christ. It was a means to an end. Satan was just offering wealth and power which would not lead to the saving of one’s soul or righteousness. Just look at politics today. It is worldly and the opposite of righteous.

[Anonymous No.19185859]

>>19185805
Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

[Anonymous No.19185865]

>>19185859

What is the meaning of the temptation then?

[Anonymous No.19185867]

>>19185853
There’s a difference between what God explicitly wills and what God permits. Satan and his minions can’t touch you if you’re a godly person anyway.

[Anonymous No.19185868]

>>19185840
Because Satan is a lier and cannot actually deliver on the promise, but God promises more than just domination of the world. Also you should not worship a creature, that is evil.

[Anonymous No.19185871]

>>19185865
That Satan is a fool, trying to tempt Jesus with what he already possessed

[Anonymous No.19185877]

>>19185865
That the demon was trying to act on Christ's natural (good) human desire of power and subvert it by making Him worship an angel, thinking it has the sovereignty over creation and kings only God has. Christ went through these temptations for our sake, to fix them, that we might more easily escape them using our new regenerate human nature after baptism which has the potential to become exactly what Christ was in his humanity before the resurrection.

[Anonymous No.19185887]

>>19185867

What meaning does God's will have if it can be implicitly opposed?

[Anonymous No.19185890]

>>19185871

So there was no temptation?

[Anonymous No.19185895]

>>19185877
>thinking it has the sovereignty over creation and kings only God has

Would his "Divine part" not know this?

[Anonymous No.19185914]

>>19185890
There was temptation as Christ did truly experience it (He had true hunger), but it was unwinnable for Satan because the evil thoughts he tried to induce into Christ could not take hold and were instantly destroyed because all of Christ's human faculties the sin could prey upon were fully deified.
>>19185895
Christ does not have "parts". There is only one Christ.
Satan thought Christ could be tricked into worshipping it by claiming that it has all power, while Christ of course knows this not to be the case.

[Anonymous No.19185926]

>>19185914

Logically, there was no temptation if he knew that Satan does not own the Kingdoms of the world,.

[Anonymous No.19185931]

>>19185887
He knows past, present and future. He will not be opposed in any ultimate sense and cannot lose.

[Anonymous No.19185940]

>>19185887
The meaning is to allow created beings to make their own choices and use their wills without God subverting it or breaking it to serve His own needs. In the end, even the evil use of will is accounted for and nobody can really outplay God's plan for those who want to be saved and join Him. Satan cannot hurt you if you are under God's protection, and if God allows him to hurt you, it is for your own benefit. You always win if you are with God.

[Anonymous No.19185955]

>>19185926
Temptation is the experience of being pulled towards a sinful action. The experience in Christ was absolutely there, since the demon had real human desires to act upon, the desire of righteous power in this case. Satan has limited power over the world (as allowed to him by God) and a human can absolutely participate in this power by giving into temptation and working with Satan.

[Anonymous No.19185959]

>>19185940

Taking you for your word, what would prevent the conclusion that it is Satan's will that is sovereign?

[Anonymous No.19185965]

>>19185955

From no power to limited power. Intriguing.

[Anonymous No.19185981]

>>19185959
Satan is a fallen creation. He does not have perfect knowledge and will be judged and thrown into eternal hellfire when Christ returns.
>>19185965
It's not a true power, since Christ allows Satan to have it and takes it/distributes it however He pleases. Satan lies that it is he who gives the power, but it is God who places anyone in a position of temporal authority, either to do His will (like King David) or in a way of allowing a person to be evil providentially (perhaps to punish His people for apostasy, like Nebuchadnezzar).

[Anonymous No.19186008]

>>19185981

You seem to have inadvertently admitted that God enthroned Satan.

[Anonymous No.19186009]

>>19185868
>but God promises more than just domination of the world
He did not promise the Israelites heaven though as far as I remember, but rather earthly domination

[Anonymous No.19186027]

>>19185290
Correct.

[Anonymous No.19186060]

>>19186008
Yes, that was originally Satan's ministry, of being enthroned in a sense over the earthly realms, remember that he is a cherub. Then when Satan already fell, Christ created Adam and gave it to him. In Adam's fall Satan subverted this power, gaining it by corrupting Adam.
Christ allows some power to be in Satan's hands for now because it serves Christ's goals. The power over hell was already destroyed and given to Christ entirely, the same will happen for all of creation upon Christ's glorious return.

[Anonymous No.19186075]

>>19186060

Approaching fan fiction...

[Anonymous No.19186085]

>>19186009
He promised salvation from the fall (Genesis 3:15) to all of mankind, and to Israel that the Messiah would come from them.
>rather earthly domination
That's what the Pharisees misinterpreted it to be, but the Messiah's kingdom was never supposed to be of this world since He was prophesied to suffer and die.

[Anonymous No.19186094]

>>19186075
>Approaching fan fiction...

[Anonymous No.19186118]

>>19185825
>Glad there are other Orthodox on /lit/

[Anonymous No.19186270]

>>19185854
>ascending consciousness of civilization, culture, community ethos,
sounds like progessivism?

[Anonymous No.19186360]

>>19186085
>He promised salvation from the fall (Genesis 3:15)
Can you please cite which OT verse he does so? In Genesis 3:15 he is not promising any salvation but is talking about placing enmity between people
> That's what the Pharisees misinterpreted it to be, but the Messiah's kingdom was never supposed to be of this world
When Yahweh says he will “set you in praise, fame and honor high above all the nations” (Deuteronomy 26:19) and that “You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none” (28:12), that sounds pretty worldly

[Anonymous No.19186371]

>>19186270
Worded that badly since I’m not at home. Meaning that with Christianity there is a more profound level of consciousness concerning the world, the foundations of civilization, culture, the community “instinct”, etc. that the Jews grasped too but to a lesser degree.

[Anonymous No.19186427]

>>19185479
>>19185484
Yeah this is a really interesting take. Where did you come across this?

[Anonymous No.19186444]

So if Satan had not told Christ to change a rock into bread, could Christ just have done that and not had to suffer through starvation? Is there any particular sin for Christ to have just done it himself if the devil didn't tempt him to do it? It seems very strange.

[Anonymous No.19186540]

>>19186444
>any particular sin for Christ to have just done it himself
No. There is no inclination to sin in Christ, since Christ's human will is always cooperating with His divine will. It is not natural for a human to want to sin, and Christ has the perfect human nature (with voluntarily assumed capability to suffer, so as to affect our savlation). Adam before the fall does not have sinful inclinations, same with Christ.

[Anonymous No.19186585]

>>19186427
Fr. Daniel Sysoev's talks on the Gospel of Luke I think. He quoted some patristic source but I don't remember it.

[Anonymous No.19186592]

>>19185419
Michael Heiser thinks that Satan was really just probing for data through Christ's reactions to the temptations, because Satan wasn't privy to a lot of important implications of Christ coming in flesh.

[Anonymous No.19186595]

>>19186444
That is the point, that He suffered through things like we do to fix them for us. If Christ didn't truly experience death and go through it, we wouldn't be saved. Christ could just instantly give Himself a resurrected and glorified body without dying, but He did not do it and suffered for our salvation, so we may participate in it fully.

[Anonymous No.19186610]

>>19185778
>chooses a little sweetie snek for the pic related

[Anonymous No.19186627]

>>19185805
>>19185832
God *owns* everything. Satan "rules" this world because *we* give him that power through our own thoughts and actions, democratically. We have "elected" Satan as our king.