Thread for the discussion of Mencius Moldbug's essays and poetic works.

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Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:43:48 2021 No.19183939 [Reply] [Original]

Thread for the discussion of Mencius Moldbug's essays and poetic works.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:45:19 2021 No.19183943 File: 110 KB, 1198x938, mold1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] He did a pretty bad job defending his position on the Elite Question on the last episode of Caribbean Rhythms, imho

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:53:54 2021 No.19183974
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>>19183943
Essentially he defined "elites" as cultural "influencers" (e.g. Instagram thots or nyc/sv hipsters), or those who will hold power in the future. Reminiscent of Trump's "super-elites", I guess? Big deflection that doesn't get at the criticism. Any definition of the term that doesn't imply "holds power" is fake.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:58:45 2021 No.19183991

>>19183939
I dont really buy MMs thesis that we are ruled by a decentralized priesthood located in the Ivy League schools. I think we are ruled by a kind of mafia that uses various tools, especially banks. The current state of academia is the way it is because this mafia wanted it to be like that. I think this may have been true as far back as the intelligentsia of France, Germany etc in the 18th century. I think they actively push analysis that focuses on impersonal systems while shunning anything that sounds like a conspiracy.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:59:19 2021 No.19183993
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>>19183974
He also massively underplayed the importance of discrimination (in the guise of affirmative action), and nepotism in the elite selection process, which he merely characterised as being "selective"--- insinuating that this selectivity correlates to competence or virtue in some worthy domain.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 01:00:53 2021 No.19184001 It was fun listening to him and BAP chat BAPs previous criticism of his work is still valid though imo

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 01:11:11 2021 No.19184025 File: 441 KB, 425x621, 1631412329947.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The article referenced by BAP: https://archive.is/yLHcj

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 01:12:58 2021 No.19184032 >>19183939 not worthy of my time

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 01:23:24 2021 No.19184066 >>19184032 Thanks for taking the time to inform me.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 02:17:29 2021 No.19184248 >>19184001 damn i wish they would do a podcast together once a month, that was good listenin

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 02:37:14 2021 No.19184314 >>19184066 Moldbug's "philosophy" is even less worth your time BTW. Read real philosophers.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 03:31:36 2021 No.19184450 >>19184314 How so? How much time have you spent trying to understand his thought?

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 03:34:49 2021 No.19184457

>>19183974
You missed his point. The point is that power is most essentially something spiritual or intellectual, that the man who can rule does so by convincing others to support his rule, to proclaim and support his right to rule. Well, given that, it's obvious that the most powerful people in any society will be who ever controls the ideas people have about what is true and what is good. Journalists, teachers, scholars, artists, critics, and the people and institutions that create and support them. The New York Times is more powerful than the president, because they determine how well received his policies will be and how much support he'll be able to rally for any project. When ultimate power is invested in a person, there are different dynamics involved. But that's not our system.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 03:41:40 2021 No.19184477 someone link the full paypig version

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 03:49:42 2021 No.19184500 >>19184477 gumroad.com/l/BronzeAgePervert

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 04:18:05 2021 No.19184559 >>19184500 i like BAP but i'll NEVER pay money for a podcast.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 07:34:06 2021 No.19185120 >>19184559 ok. then someone link the reupload on youtube or wherever.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 07:45:11 2021 No.19185179 >>19183939 https://youtu.be/He1TntAK2fs This is the honest version of yarvin

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 10:10:46 2021 No.19185795 >>19184025 https://archive.org/details/BerrierHilaireDuBackgroundToBetrayalTheTragedyOfVietnam (more) (prepare for many threads on this book)

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 10:42:18 2021 No.19185920 File: 35 KB, 327x400, Hippolyte_taine.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19185795 (still more) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippolyte_Taine Not sure which work of his he had in mind though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 10:43:52 2021 No.19185927 >>19185920 Origins of Contemporary France (it's boring btw and its influence on historical writing has been horrible)

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 13:12:50 2021 No.19186718 >>19185120 someone pls do this

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 13:16:56 2021 No.19186749 >>19183943 >>19184001 Audio links, please?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 15:28:04 2021 No.19187532 >>19186749 >>19186718 https://glycineputler.libsyn.com/caribbean-rhythms-with-bap-episode-89-moldbug-on-cold-war-and-glowies First hour is for free

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 15:40:25 2021 No.19187605 >>19187532 Is that his (BAP) real voice or is it part of this comedy sketch?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 15:47:03 2021 No.19187639 >>19187605 it's funny is all, sometimes he breaks character when a guest makes him laugh

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 16:25:53 2021 No.19187829 Moldbug is a kike who exists to deflect criticisms of established power as abstractions and encourage people to do nothing. NRX people are controlled op.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 16:43:38 2021 No.19187905

>Molotov-Ribbentrop was a trap for Hitler
>FDR knew about pearl harbor and used the navy as a bait (somehow implying he could have averted nip aggression and the pacific war?)
>Holocaust most documented event in history
>Hitler’s order of the holocaust just never would have been written down “of course” just like FDR’s knowledge of incoming pearl harbour attack
>CIA is communist
>Burning man are aristocratic nobles
1. these guys have never interacted with active CIA (and friends) members, nor been in the according sphere
2. This is just a for lolz podcast for people who are too lazy to read the relevant texts and find the relevant documents to LARP schizo conspiracy theorists on their own.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 16:49:14 2021 No.19187932 >>19184001 >BAPs previous criticism of his work which is?

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:16:57 2021 No.19188401
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Relevant discussion: https://voca.ro/1lZ4yvQucfyv

It's $5 for the rest, and also the entire back catalogue, if you like it so much.

The film is called "Weiner"

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:40:07 2021 No.19188516 File: 238 KB, 1280x853, t-jack-dorsey-john-huba-april-2011.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19183943 >>19184477 >>19184559 >>19185120 >>19186718 >>19186749 >>19188401

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:49:02 2021 No.19188567 >>19187829 >I'm angry that I get asked to leave social groups because I can't stop talking negatively about Jews

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:51:30 2021 No.19188578 >>19188567 yes

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:52:58 2021 No.19188585 >>19187829 >build the antiversity >true election >patchwork >government reset/RAGE How the fuck is any of this "do nothing"? You just don't even understand what he meant by passivism

>>	micsimone Thu Oct 7 18:53:04 2021 No.19188586 File: 2 KB, 112x112, 747.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19188401 we get 2 a week. biirthday or not. 800 hundred at hristmas of our doves. if they bloom. wellome to midnight

>>	micsimone Thu Oct 7 18:54:48 2021 No.19188589 >>19188516 and i heard fanlub sreen shots are out

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:54:49 2021 No.19188591 >>19183991 I don't think this is necessarily contradictory to his ideas. both are true

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 19:03:11 2021 No.19188638 >>19183991 Go read chapter 3 of gray mirror

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 19:06:39 2021 No.19188650
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>>19188401
I fail to see how he's is any better than her. Same category of status/power, same over fitting for the qualities of homo bureaucratis, same deficit of taste, and same phenomenon of regression to the mean talent wise.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 20:37:05 2021 No.19189005 >>19183943 BAP didn't seem to understand that moldbug was defining 'elite' a particular way and that the colloquial definition of 'Elite' wasn't really relevant.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 20:44:06 2021 No.19189025 >>19188585 I don’t denigrate moldbug because he advocates we “do nothing”. I denigrate moldbug because what he advocates we do is install an aristocratic class of verbose nerds and software engineers as our rulers because… …no thanks.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 20:59:14 2021 No.19189078 >>19189005 The reverse: MM didn't grasp BAP's point, and then whipped out a bizarre ex-post-facto re-definition of the term. >>19188650

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 20:59:38 2021 No.19189080 >>19183939 I'll be the leader :)

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 21:01:40 2021 No.19189087 >>19183939 when is it my turn to be altright celebrity

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 21:24:01 2021 No.19189185 >>19189078 I must have missed it too then, I'll listen back.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 22:46:29 2021 No.19189530 >>19187829 Get over the Jew shit already. It doesn't help anything, in fact it just makes you look stupid

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 01:07:05 2021 No.19189993 >>19187829 And these "controlled operations" ... are they in the room with us right now?

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 04:03:10 2021 No.19190473

>>19183974
If the best are always able to rise to the top, why does he even bother to criticise the status quo? It would, given this premise, have greater wisdom and fairness embedded within it than anything a critic might have to offer. Maybe Moldbug is being deliberately obscure, otherwise, he's being inconsistent and undermining his other critiques.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 04:24:04 2021 No.19190530 >>19189025 You're always going to be ruled by an aristocratic class whether you like it or not you little piggy

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 07:34:40 2021 No.19191016 >>19190473 He could just be in denial, though (ego-defence)

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 10:36:27 2021 No.19191655

>>19187605
Probably distorted to some degree but not as much as it used to be, he sounds very weird in the early eps (listen to the Angola episode on YouTube)

The accent is fake but his voice does sound like that. There's some video uploaded where he's chasing some sheep trying to give them sugar and he's doing the same accent

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 10:39:42 2021 No.19191664

>>19187932
Their core disagreement is the nature of the elite controlling things

Moldbug views this as a decentralised globohomo with no leader, kind of a hivemind. BAP views this as impotent theorycel stuff (making a theory that lets you off the hook because you can't do anything about it), his view is that there are an actual elite of maybe 500 people who control globohomo

There are other disagreements but thats the main one

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 13:10:25 2021 No.19192479 >>19191664 BAP is correct. Moldberg can't tell on his friends.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 13:16:54 2021 No.19192509 >>19189530 >ignore the elephant in the room, goyim

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 14:12:29 2021 No.19192799 >>19183939 Someone should warn the poor fellow not to allow himself to be ensnared and exploited by that scene groupie who seems to love self-shilling here so much.

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 18:59:12 2021 No.19194147

>>19192509
It's not just the Jews though. You can just as easily make your boogyman the anglos. And having this hatred for Jews makes you unable to appreciate Jews like moldbug, and others who are worthy of praise and respect. It makes you lose sympathy for them when in some cases they deserve it.

I'm not opposed to pointing out nepotism, and pilpul and other deceitful cultural practices but other groups practice as well. I'm not even saying it's not Jews, I'm just saying it's not *the* Jews -- it's not them alone.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 23:22:23 2021 No.19195080 >>19191664 That theory is odd in that there doesn't seem to be any room left to account for for personal agency

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 23:27:18 2021 No.19195100

>>19184457
And the further point is that power while spiritual or intellectual is a more roundabout process than is represented by the most apparent node of The New York Times et al. This is a fairly obvious but important point you could glean from some familiarity with Marx, but Moldbug doesn't even reach that. You can then combine that with the more fine-grained historical detail that >>19183991 mentions.

>>19190530
If that is the case, which I don't prejudge, the makeup and the exercise of power of our elite disqualify them from any claim to the title of aristocratic.

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 23:50:56 2021 No.19195187

>>19195080
What, Moldbugs?

There is a logic to it but BAPs criticism is as you said, there's no room to actually act to do something about it because it's this non-local 'thing' with no real attack surface. It's a tempting theory because it allows you to just sit and seethe about it without being obligated to do anything

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:50:08 2021 No.19195941 Another major question is: If the permanent bureaucrats (who comprise Moldbug's elite) are so great, why do they have such poor judgement and taste? Why do they permit their own world to be so terrible?

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:02:03 2021 No.19196086

>>19191664
They're both right desu. There is a cabal, but these people are not driven by anything that would make sense to you or me. Whether it be simple profit seeking, power, etc... really misses the core schizophrenia of the ruling class. Moldbug's right that these people are basically dogs, simply powered by a primal animus. On the other hand though the wheels of power are still run by men, with names and addresses you can visit in Minecraft.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:17:16 2021 No.19196134 >>19196086 I thought the dog metaphor applied to the state as a whole wrt its tendency to go to war ostensibly to spread liberalism, not to individual people. This thread shows that he needs to explain his points much more clearly than he does.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:30:11 2021 No.19196163 >>19195941 Cause they're addicted to power, the same reason Mao enjoyed the cultural revolution.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:36:53 2021 No.19196180 >>19195100 >>19183991 Banks adopt the symbols of the Cathedral like the rainbow flag. The Cathedral doesn't accept taking orders from banks or money power, they would get savaged in the press. Banks bow to them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:43:31 2021 No.19196204 >>19196180 This is ass-backwards. https://isgp-studies.com/liberal-cia-feminism-and-birth-control

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:57:34 2021 No.19196253 >>19196204 This article is referring to what MM calls "the Foundation". You just need to read Gray Mirror ch 3 "descriptive constitution of the modern regime".

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:59:38 2021 No.19196259 >>19196253 No. I will read more worthwhile people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 06:00:31 2021 No.19196263 >>19196259 >No, I enjoy my ignorance

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/lit/ - Literature