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19179870 No.19179870[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

How does anyone properly integrate this in life? It means suicide essentially, which is fine from a Christian perspective, the martyrs and all, but is every Christian supposed to strive for this basically suicidal standpoint? To never attack evil, to just let it pass in the world because it is the next world which matters and the best thing to do for the next world is to let any evil happen but never attack because it would just cause more ?

>> No.19179896

>>19179870
Basically I am wondering: is this teaching opposed to this entire world which is ruled by power or does the grace of God enter into the equation somehow to stop it being just a ruthless struggle wherein the only holy option is martyrdom in a world of universal suffering inflicted by everything, the only way out being suicidal levels of pacifism

>> No.19180083

>>19179870
Christians pls respond

>> No.19180170

>>19179870
Read Tolstoy - The Kingdom of God is Within You. It's entirely about Christian nonresistance.

>> No.19180185
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19180185

>jesus tries to teach overcoming ressentiment
>christers still perplexed "what did he mean by this"

>> No.19180188

>>19179870
It’s in the context of ‘an eye for an eye’ type practices. It’s about forgiving people and moving on, not getting involved in some stupid cycle of revenge. This teaching is useful in daily life almost every day.

>> No.19180272

>>19180170
I skimmed it and found this at the end

>"O днe жe и чace тoм никтo нe знaeт, тoлькo oтeц мoй oдин (Mф. XXIV, 36)",
- тyт жe гoвopит Хpиcтoc. Ибo oнo мoжeт нacтyпить вceгдa, вcякyю минyтy, и тoгдa, кoгдa мы нe oжидaeм eгo. Ha вoпpoc o тoм, кoгдa нacтyпит этoт чac, Хpиcтoc гoвopит, чтo знaть этoгo
мы нe мoжeм; нo имeннo пoтoмy, чтo мы нe мoжeм знaть вpeмeни нacтyплeния этoгo чaca, мы нe тoлькo дoлжны 6ыть вceгдa гoтoвы к вcтpeчe eгo, кaк дoлжeн быть вceгдa гoтoв хoзяин, cтepeгyщий дoм, кaк дoлжны быть гoтoвы дeвы c cвeтильникaми, вcтpeчaющиe жeнихa, нo и дoлжны paбoтaть из вceх дaнных нaм cил для нacтyплeния этoгo чaca, кaк дoлжны были paбoтaть paбoтники нa дaнныe им тaлaнты (Mф. XXIV, 43; XXV, 1-30). Ha вoпpoc, кoгдa нacтyпит этoт чac,
Хpиcтoc yвeщeвaeт людeй вceми cвoими cилaми paбoтaть для cкopeйшeгo нacтyплeния eгo.
>И дpyгoгo oтвeтa нe мoжeт быть

This to me is just a reinforcement of the concept of martyrdom as defended by the idea that the next world matters more than this one. Here he basically says explicitly you have to act as if the judgment or rapture could happen at any time
> мы нe тoлькo дoлжны 6ыть вceгдa гoтoвы к вcтpeчe eгo, кaк дoлжeн
быть вceгдa гoтoв хoзяин, cтepeгyщий дoм, кaк дoлжны быть гoтoвы дeвы c cвeтильникaми, вcтpeчaющиe жeнихa, нo и дoлжны paбoтaть из вceх дaнных нaм cил для нacтyплeния этoгo чaca, кaк дoлжны были paбoтaть paбoтники нa дaнныe им тaлaнты

And in Tolstoy's earlier essay which he references in this one "What is my religion" he says that his principle is defined by this concept of "resist not evil". That is the key for him. And I do think that is the unique thing about Christianity really, this resist not evil concept. But this is very radical is the point, practically suicide.

>> No.19180377

>>19180272
Tolstoy isn't a Christian.
You should not fight evil with evil. But be patient, even if you need to suffer for Christ.

>> No.19180384

>>19180377
Why do you think Tolstoy isn't Christian? He agrees with you that you should not fight evil with evil, and that you should suffer for christ

>> No.19180408

>>19179870
>let it pass in the world
It's not about letting it pass in the world. It's about letting it pass onto you. When you break an unjust law, serve the sentence. When you are sent to a Gulag for your faith, go. When someone lies about you, don't start a campaign to clear your name. All these unjustices are filth that will collapse under their own weight at some point, partially because a Christ-like person will be (seen) suffering from them.

>> No.19180422

>>19180408
This is plainly not true, as seen in the obvious cases: the murderer who is never discovered etc. There is a basic dichotomy here between grace, the other world, and nature, power, our world.

>> No.19180428

>>19180272
The passage quoted doesn't address what you raise in the OP. But your characterization of it as an reaffirmation of an "other world theory" is misleading imho.
>Хpиcтoc yвeщeвaeт людeй вceми cвoими cилaми paбoтaть для cкopeйшeгo нacтyплeния eгo.
This doesn't devalue this world. On the other hand you paбoтaть in THIS world.

>> No.19180438

>>19180422
>the murderer who is never discovered
Can you elaborate how this relates to "suffer the sentence of an unjust law" etc?
>There is a basic dichotomy here between grace, the other world, and nature, power, our world.
I know. Why do you keep diverting the discussion to Nietzche's "other world theory" or whatever it's called?

>> No.19180455

>>19180384
Because he literally thought you should read the Holy Gospel with two pens (red and blue), mark all the miracles and stuff you dont like or understand with the blue, mark Christ's words with the red and take that as the only necessary truth.
Also the "minor" fact that he did not believe Christ to be God who died on the cross and rose from the dead.

>> No.19180465

>>19180428
You work in this world according to christ though is what he is saying, he is reinforcing that every single moment has to be according to Christ. Again the martyr is the best Christian right?
>>19180438
You said the injustices will collapse under the weight of their filth but i dont think they do. And I am not referring to Nietzsche, "my kingdom is not of this world" etc

>> No.19180472

>>19179896
>this entire world which is ruled by power
The world is rules by Christ, not by dark principalities. They only do Christ's will even in their evil deeds, since He turns it into good in His providence.

>> No.19180477

>>19179870
Christian morality is the highest form of morality, and it is fundamentally opposed to the world. Humans have agency. We like to rationalize immoral actions - "oh, he deserved it", "it is just", "I'm a victim, give me lenience". But because we have agency, we have no reason not to act virtuously.

>> No.19180488

>>19180465
>You work in this world according to christ though
Yes. In this world. Because this world matters. Otherwise Christ wouldn't have came down here.
>Again the martyr is the best Christian right?
Yes. And he martyrs for the salvation of this world, by becoming an instance of Christ (a loving sacrifice) in this world.
>You said the injustices will collapse under the weight of their filth but i dont think they do.
You don't have to believe the teaching, but your question was what the teaching is and that is it.
>And I am not referring to Nietzsche
Alright because I think Nietzsche has this almost-destructive critique of religions and ideologies where he calls out the fallacy of relying on 'another world' or 'world to come'. Which is a valid critique. It's just not destructive to Christianity because we insist on the value of this world also.

>> No.19180500

>>19180465
>but i dont think they do.
Then you believe in eternal evil and are a gnostic/manichean. Christ defeated death on the cross, it has no binding power over us anymore. Matter has also been deified by Christ's incarnation and inevitably predestined to resurrection. You can participate in this in a beneficial way by believing in Christ and aligning your will to His. Anyone who does not do this will lose in the end for all eternity, so yes, every injustice will be destroyed.

>> No.19180511
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19180511

>>19179870
i don't think they mean literally let them kill you and rape your wife and daughter. it makes more sense if it's like, somebody calls you a faggot on 4chan and even though your feelings got hurt you shouldn't darken your own heart with bitter rage and hatred, but keep going in your own way and try to be good and amend yourself to the truth
but also when they were under the romans it probably would make it worse to try to fight roman soldiers that attacked them. to cling to the truth in spite of worldly force is being a martyr i guess

>> No.19180524

Christianity has always just been about death, don't let these tradfags tell you otherwise.

>> No.19180527

>>19180500
>>19180488
There are rich people who rape children for decades and live in luxury and dir in peace. Obviously not all evil is conquered in this world

>> No.19180572

>>19180527
>Obviously not all evil is conquered in this world
I didn't say all evil is conquered. I said there is a teaching that if you take your fair share of the filth, the world will be cleaner.
"Turn him also [the other cheek]" isn't an instruction to shrug about kids being raped.

>> No.19180599

>>19180572
>the world will be cleaner
But it won't be clean will it? I know the Christian teaching is to tend to your own garden but that wont fix the world in general. Hence the opposition between this world and the kingdom of god

>> No.19180605

>>19180599
>But it won't be clean will it?
How will the world not be cleaner if you pick up a piece of filth from it, Anon?
>that wont fix the world in general
Can you fix the world in general?
>opposition between this world and the kingdom of god
Diversion.

>> No.19180608

>>19179870
>How does anyone properly integrate this in life?
>suicide
>integrate into life
>suicide
>life
???
Does not compute.

>> No.19180616

>>19180605
Cleaner and clean are not the same thing are they? Evil will still exist.

How is it a diversion to refer to Christ saying his kingdom is not of this world?