/CLG/ Cath Larpers General

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/CLG/ Cath Larpers General Anonymous Wed Oct 6 03:32:41 2021 No.19178849 [Reply] [Original]

To combat all the circlejerking by TradCath larpers, I think its time to contain them in one general so they don't fuck up the board. Talk about Catholic literature here.

Post
>Your favorite Saint
>Your favorite Book related to Catholicism
>Your favorite Catholic writer
>The last book about Catholicism you've read
>Your favorite Bible verse

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 05:17:22 2021 No.19179082 St. Perpetua True Devotion to Mary by St Louis de Montfort Flannery O'Connor On the Divine Names by Dionysius the Areopagite Proverbs 26:11

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 06:34:14 2021 No.19179319 >>19178849 Can we also have a General for actual, legit practicing Catholics? Not everyone here actually left their faith.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 06:36:02 2021 No.19179327 >>19178849 > Muh Cath Larpers Can we also have a General for actual, legit practicing Catholics? Not everyone here is a recent band-wagon convert.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 07:14:20 2021 No.19179446 >>19179327 >Not everyone here is a recent band-wagon convert. You'd be surprised at how many reactionaries there are here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 07:25:23 2021 No.19179478 >larpers Feelsgood to have been born in a catholic-majority country, to a catholic-majority family and to have been a practising catholic my whole life (well, apart from those edgy teenage years)

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 07:48:41 2021 No.19179557 >>19179446 You'd be surprised at how many genuine Catholics there are here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 07:49:58 2021 No.19179567 File: 15 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19179557

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 07:51:39 2021 No.19179574 >>19179557 If by genuine you mean christians that hate jews and dark-skins sure.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:20:19 2021 No.19179676 >>19179478 same. larpers will never experience having to sing catholic hymns with 300 other students because they grew up in a catholic school.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:22:44 2021 No.19179689 >>19178849 Man I unironically think all this "cathtradlarp" thing is some pseudo atheist scheme. You can't even mention you're religious because they'll tell you you're a 14 yo larper who just likes paintings and cathedrals lol. I'm not religious btw.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:25:59 2021 No.19179705 >>19179327 I wish we had a comfy Catholic general. I want to talk about going to mass and how the confession went. It'd be infected with "CATHOLICISM ENDED WITH VATICAN 2 HERESY HERESY" in no time lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:27:22 2021 No.19179714 File: 22 KB, 225x346, 518MvbFy+5L._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:27:49 2021 No.19179717 >>19179705 You have to admit that it's hard to talk about Catholicism without talking about the current state of the Church.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:33:23 2021 No.19179741 >>19179714 not Catholic, read Salazar instead

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:35:19 2021 No.19179750 >>19179714 Love thy neighbour

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:39:29 2021 No.19179772 Friendly Catholic reminder that being racist is bad.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:41:18 2021 No.19179784 >>19179772 Only whites can be christian dumbass. Also Francis is the antichrist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 08:41:53 2021 No.19179787 >>19179705 Those guys are pretty funny >Catholicism is based and true but the church is wrong about everything

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 10:21:17 2021 No.19180210 >>19179705 Jannies would probably kick us to /his/.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 11:21:42 2021 No.19180510 >>19179787 To be fair to them it's somewhat difficult to reconcile VII with pre-VII Church teaching in certain respects unless you disregard VII as "pastoral" - but how do you know what parts of VI for example are "pastoral"?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:13:20 2021 No.19181023 Lads, is there a good Catholic resource for NoFap? I'm sick of being a degenerate.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:20:23 2021 No.19181053 >>19181023 Just stop masturbating anon, it's literally that easy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:24:15 2021 No.19181077 >>19178849 >>19179327 If you want to discuss Catholicism, the best place to do it is at your church, with a priest. Why would you discuss your faith on 4chan, that's retarded.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:25:23 2021 No.19181083 >>19181077 What if they also want to discuss religion on the internet on their favourite website

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:28:08 2021 No.19181093 >>19181053 I just need a saint or a role model I can look to for inspiration

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:31:12 2021 No.19181106 >>19181093 st augustine was a sex fiend before he saw the light

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:31:59 2021 No.19181110 >>19181093 Read Confessions by Augustine

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:37:33 2021 No.19181134 File: 3.20 MB, 2000x1404, 47b7662727b7150bc00ed2115c66ec8af09ff0b0af20db33fd28e5ec846cd955.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19178849 >Hildegarde von Bingen >The Bible >Martin Luther >On the Bondage of the Will >Romans 1:17

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:42:51 2021 No.19181164 >>19178849 St. Joan of Arc Mansions St. Teresa de Avila The Bible :^) John 1:1

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:48:17 2021 No.19181201 File: 905 KB, 1571x2400, 91RZyUdbYJL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19181023

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:51:36 2021 No.19181214 >>19178849 St. Athanasius The Protestant Reformation in England by William Cobbett Hilaire Belloc De Incarnatione (Athanasius) Revelation 21:4

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:52:37 2021 No.19181219 >>19181023 Use the internet less

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 13:53:45 2021 No.19181223 Has anyone ever read anything by George Bernanos? I rewatched the adaptations of his books by Rohmer recently (Mouchette, Diary of a Country Priest) and I'm curious to read them, as well as Under the Sun of Satan.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 14:32:40 2021 No.19181423 >>19180510 Basically, Catholicism isn't a coherent belief system

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 14:35:01 2021 No.19181436 >>19181223 La grande peur des bien-pensants and La France contre les robots are great. I don't know if there are translations.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 14:35:21 2021 No.19181437 >>19178849 >fuck up the board Trad larpers are the only bunch of you insufferable midwits that are actually readable.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 14:56:27 2021 No.19181542 >>19181436 Thanks, I read French, I'll try them out

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 14:57:40 2021 No.19181551 >>19181542 essaie Charles Péguy et Léon Bloy aussi alors

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 19:03:26 2021 No.19182674 >>19181437 But they aren't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 19:21:59 2021 No.19182750 >>19179717 I just go to Mass at my church which is run by a traditionalist society. I don't follow Church politics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 20:17:23 2021 No.19182942 >>19182674 Yes they are. They're at least trying to return to a real tradition and not some gnostic freemason LARP. They're the only people on this faggot board who say anything of substance.

Anonymous Wed Oct 6 20:33:50 2021 No.19183015

>>19181077
Because 4chan is literally one of the best places to talk about Catholicism in neutral ground with other denoms or unbelievers. It’s way better than sites like Reddit where everyone’s chud consensus is the same as Richard Dawkins or CNN

If only monkeys like you understood that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 20:39:04 2021 No.19183038 >>19183015 Lol. If there is one thing we can all learn from 4chan is that free inquiry may be a necessary but it is not a sufficient condition for serious discussion.

Anonymous Wed Oct 6 21:05:12 2021 No.19183129

>>19183038
>free inquiry may be a necessary but it is not a sufficient condition for serious discussion. Excellence, then, consists in knowing what threads to make and what bait to post, for it is this that baits people into a serious discussion about the absolute state of the Catholic church.
t. anonides

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 21:06:16 2021 No.19183132 >>19183015 There has never been any such thing as a sincere Christian who posts on 4chan. This has never once taken place. t. have been browsing the site the entire time it's been online

Anonymous Wed Oct 6 21:14:20 2021 No.19183150

>>19182942
19th century Italian Catholicism is not a real tradition, it's a centrally planned Modernist product offered up for consumption in the market. You want to be edgy and RETVRN? Start making threads about performing animal sacrifice to St. George.

Anonymous Wed Oct 6 21:17:11 2021 No.19183165
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Purchased a copy of pic related. I have Bibles at home but they're too big to carry around outside.

Do you guys know of any other Bibles that are simple, compact but elegant like pic related?

Anonymous Wed Oct 6 21:43:44 2021 No.19183270

>>19183150
>19th century Italian Catholicism is not a real tradition,
It is in direct continunity with the apodtolic tradition. Who the fuck is trying to sell it when it goes against everything globohomo stands for? Even glownigger plants like Richard Spencer would rather push Sun worship and paganism.
>sacrifice a bull to Saint George
I'm not an Albanian.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 21:54:20 2021 No.19183318 >>19178849 >Jesus >The Bible >The Apostles >The Bible >The New Testament Any other answer is heresy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 23:52:33 2021 No.19183770 >>19179689 I don't like that "tradcath" is becoming the new boogeyman for everything that isn't godless degeneracy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 23:57:16 2021 No.19183781 >>19179478 >t. Spic

Anonymous Wed Oct 6 23:59:21 2021 No.19183789

>tfw hate nuChurch but also think the ultra-centralised tridentine setup had run it's course

I would love to see the Church loosen it's grip a bit. The allowing of older rites like Sarum would be nice, or reinstating the old Egyptian and Celtic ideas of permeable monasteries, where you can be a monk for a few years and leave, rather than lifetime vows. This would also rebalance control away from the clergy and back towards monasteries, I think some decentralisation like this would help things.

Or at the very least split V2 and Tridentine into two separate rites in communion with Rome, that seems like an easy fix for the current problem.

It just seems like we've run into a wall where dogmatic autism has made any new thought or evolution impossible, and the only avenue for growth is further into globohomo. This needs to change, and imo I don't think just restoring the pre-V2 stuff will solve it. That had its own issues, it's just that the replacement was worse

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 6 23:59:24 2021 No.19183790 >>19181053 I've tried that. I'm constantly horny if I do that. My dick will literally be hard all day.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:02:13 2021 No.19183801 >>19178849 >Your favorite Saint >Your favorite Avenger

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:02:18 2021 No.19183802 I tried reading GK Chesterton and he is painfully boring

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:06:10 2021 No.19183811 St. Anthony the Great is my favorite, mainly for all of the spiritual warfare he was said to have endured. I also always have a soft-spot for ascetics.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:07:39 2021 No.19183816
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BAP is right in his criticism of integralists. The attempt to turn Catholicism into a means of propping up suburban community life instead of a means of spiritual overcoming is missing the point entirely

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:12:19 2021 No.19183826

>>19183789
How has a 2000 year old tradition "run it's course" because of a few fuckups in the 60's?
>new thought or evolution
The reason the NO is so messed up is because of an infactuation with novelty. Dogmas are transcendant revealed truths, they don't change with fashion.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:31:01 2021 No.19183888

>>19183826
>How has a 2000 year old tradition "run it's course" because of a few fuckups in the 60's?

Read my post again - I'm saying the style of Church that emerged (in the Latin Rite) after the Council of Trent had run out of vitality and was in need of change, it had become stagnant and corrupt. That does not mean the whole concept of Catholicism is invalid but rather than the form the Church took needed to evolve

This was understood by the Vatican, who attempted to do this, but dropped the ball

>The reason the NO is so messed up is because of an infactuation with novelty. Dogmas are transcendant revealed truths, they don't change with fashion.

That must be why things like
>monotheletism
>papal infallability
>immaculate conception
>assumption of Mary

Dogma doesn't 'change' but if you don't think some were selected by executive decision from two completely split and opposed camps then you are mentally ill. Maximus the Confessor lost his tongue for being on the wrong side of one of these supposedly universally held truths

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:33:14 2021 No.19183904 >>19183802 Which did you read? The Man who was Thursday and Napoleon of Notting Hill are his best.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 00:50:49 2021 No.19183960 >>19183904 Orthodoxy and Heretics. Skimmed through The Everlasting Man. His style is just very tedious

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 01:35:52 2021 No.19184110 >>19183888 >>monotheletism >>papal infallability >>immaculate conception heterodox unpatristic belief-systems.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 01:41:10 2021 No.19184129 >>19183888 >executive decision they're not "selected" by a decision, but rather revealed to us to be true. dogmas are always true since the faith of the apostles was delivered once and for all. only our explications of it can change/develop.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 02:40:11 2021 No.19184321 >>19181023 Pray the Saint Michael Prayer when you feel tempted. It doesn't always work but it's worked for me more than once. Also pray to your guardian angel, he exists for a reason.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 02:50:10 2021 No.19184350 >>19183165 Douay rheims pocket size from baronius press

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 02:55:00 2021 No.19184371 File: 9 KB, 145x261, Younganscombe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I love Anscombe so much. I wish she had been my wife.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 02:57:37 2021 No.19184377

>>19183816
BAP is a fucking moron who refuses to engage with the real shit niggas of Integralism. I'm talking about the unironic monarchists and the supporters of aristocracy, who hate democracy and would be willing to use force to bring about the downfall of it. People who think separation of Church and State is quaint and want to bulldoze the wall between them. BAP is merely engaging with the Boomer Dads of the Integralist debate, he can't answer the hardcore types like the ones at the Josias because he knows he'll lose.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 05:40:15 2021 No.19184740 File: 184 KB, 507x555, 1616398315643.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >my source? VaticanCatholic.com

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 05:51:58 2021 No.19184763 >>19179741 Salazar could never hope to be half the man that Codreanu was.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 05:54:41 2021 No.19184767

>>19183790
This is not your natural sex drive, it's spiked and disturbed by porn. Once you withdraw from porn and have seized masturbation for a while, you'll see that your sex drive adjusts to normal levels again. I used to spend about 6 hours a day masturbating and I haven't masturbated in 150 days now. It gets easier the longer you abstain and you'll find that everyday things become much more enjoyable.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 05:57:33 2021 No.19184773 >>19181023 Confessions of St. Augustine Make your own confession too

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 06:09:12 2021 No.19184806 >>19178849 >St. John Henry Newman >Everlasting Man >Chesterton >Faith of our Fathers >parable of the prodigal son

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 06:10:17 2021 No.19184809
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>Pray the liturgy of the hours from Monday to Saturday
>Make a prayer before every meal
>Eat fish every Friday
>Avoid gazing at women with lust
>Abstain from coarse language
>Read the Bible everyday
>Donate 1/10th of my monthly income to the Church
>Support Catholic businesses
>Attend mass every Sunday

Any other habits I should add to my daily routine?

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 06:14:08 2021 No.19184823

>>19184767
This.
Stop watching porn and jerk it ritualistically every 2 days. Do this for 3 months. Then, slowly go down with the frequency until you’ve reached 2 weeks. Then just keep going.

Your sex drive will adjust. I must mention you should not masturbate to porn fantasies.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 06:14:56 2021 No.19184824 >>19184823 Thank you brother. I'll do as you advise.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 06:37:51 2021 No.19184886 >>19183790 https://easypeasymethod.org/ Thank me later. Loads of people have quit by using this method.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 06:39:31 2021 No.19184890 File: 149 KB, 611x750, 1633227101653.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19184809 Sounds like you're doing good, lad. I'd suggest attending confession regularly, if you aren't already.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 06:47:03 2021 No.19184911
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>>19178849

>>Your favorite Saint
St Joseph

>>Your favorite Book related to Catholicism
The Holy Bible

>>Your favorite Catholic writer
Tolkien

>>The last book about Catholicism you've read
Introduction to the Devout Life

>>Your favorite Bible verse
Galations 6:7 "Be not deceived, God is not mocked."

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 06:47:50 2021 No.19184912 >>19184890 Of course, I try to attend confession once a month at least. This routine has helped to keep me calm. Reading the Bible deeper also helped me to understand mass better than I did as a Youth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 07:14:10 2021 No.19185008 >>19184823 Masturbating is still a grave sin, even if you do not deepen it with pornography. If you feel you do not have the strength to stop completely, then pray for that strength.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 07:26:51 2021 No.19185073 >>19184763 you obviously know nothing about Salazar and you shill a meme book

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 08:34:46 2021 No.19185388 >>19184912 How do you organize your scripture reading? Do you just read, say, a chapter per night, working your way through? Or do you just select passages at random?

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 08:46:08 2021 No.19185441

>>19185388
I've read the bible from cover to cover two years ago and now I'm following a more concise bible reading plan alongside reading Catholic commentaries for select chapters, It takes longer but it helps you to understand it better.

If you were to do what I did and read it from cover to cover, You can probably finish the entire book within 90 days if you're not that busy.

My favorite books are Mark and Psalms so I re-read them every now and then.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 08:50:00 2021 No.19185452 File: 117 KB, 614x528, 1630381590326.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Question for Catholics, how far can you go in questioning the teachings of the church without becoming a protestant?

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 09:06:53 2021 No.19185518
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>>19185452
If you're of the clown pope, there is no teaching of the Church, do whatever you want.
If you're of the "trad pope", then use any compiled list of Roman dogma, but be ready to drop any belief and say it was not actually not excathedra (so you don't have to actually believe in) it whenever convenient.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 09:14:54 2021 No.19185552 >>19185518 is this what they teach protestants?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 09:15:48 2021 No.19185559 >>19185518 implying francis has contradicted an ex cathedra teaching?

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 10:33:23 2021 No.19185891

>>19184129
They are literally selected by a decision, are you retarded?

When exactly was papal infallibility 'revealed'? When the Church decided it would be useful in the 19th Century? Or during the middle ages when popes were being installed by emperors?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 10:57:35 2021 No.19185984 >>19185891 >When exactly was papal infallibility 'revealed'? Never, because it is a false teaching.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 11:15:10 2021 No.19186098 >>19185559 He doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 11:54:40 2021 No.19186295 Who's the best Catholic Apologetic today? I'm ashamed to say I'm always left speechless when my atheist colleagues question my beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 12:14:20 2021 No.19186400 >>19186295 What disputes do your colleagues have?

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 13:22:18 2021 No.19186784

>>19181023
"EasyPeasy Method"

There are a handful of immoral statements, but if you are familiar with Catholic teaching you should be able to filter them out. This book will dismantle the irrational fears enslaving you to this addiction.

Also read St. Antony's discourse to the monks, he talks about all the fear tactics used by the demons.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 13:28:26 2021 No.19186815

>>19181093
Females went crazy over St. Bernard in his youth and he was successful in thwarting their wicked plots against his virginity.

There is also a nameless martyr mentioned in the life of St. Paul the Hermit who bit off his tongue and spat it into the face of a whore who was trying to arouse him.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 13:39:32 2021 No.19186876

>>19186295
I always btfo atheists in discussions with simple arguments written by William Lane Craig on reasonable faith.
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/media/debates
Read some debates and you'll learn. He's retarded when it comes to the church or the history of religion, but he's the best guy when it comes to btfoing atheists like harris or other dumbasses.
But when it comes to specific questions or just Catholicism, type the question into Catholic Answers.
https://www.catholic.com/
Literally all questions and arguments against Christianity that you find on 4chan have their own articles on that website. You could just copy the replies from there lol

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 13:50:41 2021 No.19186959 >>19186295 Scientism is pretty popular right now. The River Forest/Laval Thomists are good answer to that. http://www.u.arizona.edu/~aversa/scholastic/ http://www.morec.com/nature/river.htm http://www.morec.com/natural.htm

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 14:01:31 2021 No.19187005 File: 134 KB, 265x480, download (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Lads, this is a good thread.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 14:09:59 2021 No.19187056 >>19187005 Indeed it is, a nice containment thread with all my Catholicbros.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 14:48:13 2021 No.19187269 >>19184377 Aren't the people from The Josias leftists?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 14:51:09 2021 No.19187285 >>19184763 Salazar was the ideal Catholic leader.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 15:55:07 2021 No.19187688 >>19184767 I don't watch porn. I jack off without it. I'm still addicted to masturbating without porn

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 16:00:31 2021 No.19187710

>>19181023
The sacraments of confession and the Eucharist. Both are spiritually healing. Both empower you to resist temptation.

If you can manage daily Mass, it can work wonders.

But you have to cooperate with God's grace. You have to will it. If you fall (and you almost certainly will, a number of times), you have to humbly get back up again, and re-apply yourself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 16:02:04 2021 No.19187715 >>19181223 Diary of a Country Priest is very good.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 16:17:27 2021 No.19187799

>>19185891
>When exactly was papal infallibility 'revealed'?

It was defined during the First Vatican Council (1869-70)

Newman's An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine is the best explanation for how the eponymous process works.

You could just jump to Section 3 of Chapter 4 to get to his discussion of the Papacy:

https://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/chapter4.html

But you'd be well advised to read the three preceding chapters first.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 16:39:48 2021 No.19187888 >>19183789 Do you believe it is necessary for the Church to regain/expand it's global influence and authority? Wouldn't decentralization harm those efforts?

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 16:59:09 2021 No.19187972

Im muslim, and i thank God he let me born in the truest religion of Him. Our religion its literaly better than yours in every aspect, there is no absolute reason to choose Christianity above Islam. Use your logic.

Also, its so hard to accept jesus just as a humble human prophet? Of course he did a lot of miracles, but all thanks to the real God, not him.

Its so hard to accept Muhammad? A human whos blood is of Abraham family, who became literally the greatest man in history. Look at his biography, at the geopolitical situation. U accept in your everyday life every type of man you think is great and u refuse the greatest. Blood of Abraham, look God how He s generous with you christians, maked the new prophet from Abraham blood, not a stranger at all. So its easyer to convert for you. If it was, for example, a chinese, that would be difficult.

Our Quran is simple, our Religion is simpler, our community is simpler. We dont have dogma, clierics, and a the meta stuff to know about, its all about you and God, as straight forward as possible.

We deal with the devil and desires better then you. We are more prudent in the everyday life with vices. We freely declare things like music and homo is from evil.

Did you know music was created by Evil himself? Yes, in the times of Noeh family, woman and man were divided. The Evil created the Music so they can unite and dance, and so created Fornication.

Surah Al-Ikhlas in English :
In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is God, the One.
2. God, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is nothing comparable to Him.”
This is a clear statement by God describing Himself to humanity without any room for confusion. God is One and is exalted above everything He creates.
This chapter of the Quran is about the oneness of God. The concept of God has been presented here in its purest form, ridding it of all polluting associations which people of every age have brought to it. There is no plurality of gods. There is only one God. All are dependent upon Him, but He is not dependent on anybody. He Himself has power over everything. He is far above being the progeny of anybody or having any offspring. He is such a unique being that there is nobody like Him or equal to Him in any manner whatsoever.

As nice and "romantic" the idea of God became human and suffered with us is, sadly is just deviation of true monotheism, a syncretic phenomenon, maybe cuz romans

In islamic tradition this sura its considered the essence of Quran, and reading it its like reading one third of the Quran

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:01:20 2021 No.19187985 >>19187972 >He begets not, nor was He begotten So where does Creation come from

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:07:24 2021 No.19188012

>>19187985
Dont deformate God words. You know what i mean, you are letting the Evil speak for you now.

Islamic fun fact: Did you know that the Quran, says us that prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, for a couple of times, Evil was speaking and not him? So in the quran, there is literally written somewhere words of the devil and not from God, but this is not a problem at all, because the Quran itself it says that its just God trying us, and the true believers are safe

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:16:24 2021 No.19188048 >>19187972 trinitarians btfo

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:25:27 2021 No.19188103

>>19178849
Catholicism is nothing more than Judaism with different rituals. Same old shit about salvation via works, same old shit about rituals and rules, same old shit about obeying holy men who know better than you.

>inb4 a bunch of braindead zoom zooms post out-of-context passages from James
retards

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:26:02 2021 No.19188108 New Doctor of the Church! https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2021/10/07/pope-francis-saint-irenaeus-docor-241592

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:32:04 2021 No.19188131 >>19186295 I'd say Trent Horn and Michael Lofton of the Reason and Theology channel

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:32:21 2021 No.19188134 >>19188103 >old shit yes, it is a 1600 year old apostolic tradition unlike whatever Pastor Joe thought up this weekend

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:34:29 2021 No.19188149 >>19188134 >we've been doing it wrong... but we've been doing it a long ass time so that makes it right fucking retard

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:36:59 2021 No.19188160 >>19188149 >everyone was doing it wrong for centuries until Pastor Joe showed us the way last Superbowl you're practically a Mormon

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:40:31 2021 No.19188191 >>19188160 >just repeats his completely retarded argument doing the same shit for a long time does not make it more right, retard.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:42:59 2021 No.19188206 Anyone else recently refound their faith in Christ? Born and raised a catholic but only recently came back to it. Any other anons done the same? I kinda feel like a cultural form of Christianity may be emerging again? Am I dumb?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:55:35 2021 No.19188277 >>19188191 yes, it does join the body of Christ (Orthodox and some anglican/luther churches are fine too) or go see the mormons

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:56:26 2021 No.19188281 >>19188277 >no argument other than "yes it does" you're not making catholics look very smart right now.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 17:59:32 2021 No.19188301 >>19188281 >no argument other than 'old so bad' oh, and >its judaism because it has rules, unlike us prots who just make up interpretations as we go

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:00:55 2021 No.19188312 >>19181023 https://www.strive21.com/ Good luck bro

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:01:46 2021 No.19188317

>>19188206
I feel like I'm on that path, and sure hope I am. I was raised Catholic, albeit moreso in name than practice, but became an edgy antitheist in my early teenage years. At this point I've been exploring the faith again and have a deep, profound respect for it and wish to become a part of it, but my return has to be sincere. I've made many of what I think to be necessary reconciliations in my head, but still have a ways to go before I think I can truly call myself a believer. I'm slowly making my way through the Bible, and have writings of Augustine and Aquinas and, as of today, C. S. Lewis's Mere Christianity.

I also think there might be a religious renewal budding, though I'm not positive. It would be a nice thing to see I think.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:05:54 2021 No.19188336 >>19184809 Daily Rosary

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:08:55 2021 No.19188351 >>19188160 >everyone was doing it wrong for centuries until Pope Pederastius the 69th showed us the way in 1919 you're practically a Mormon

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:20:43 2021 No.19188419

>>19188351
it seems like the struggle to even understand the notion of an apostolic tradition
the torch that has been carried for two millennia in what is known today and the Catholic and Orthodox inheritors
Luther rejected any form of the accompanying hierarchy, and look at the results
what started off as a semi-coherent schism with legitimate concerns has dissolved into a disjointed mess of 'denominations' where the word of God is twisted and manipulated freely
progressive churches where pederasty isn't limited the shadows. but preached as gospel
and reactionary churches where the gospel is subverted for partisan electoral goals

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:22:09 2021 No.19188426 >>19188419 >it seems like the struggle to even understand the notion of an apostolic tradition Oh no, I get it. The problem is that you just don't believe what the Apostles believed.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:31:04 2021 No.19188471

>>19188426
Then luther should have established a new tradition that follows the apostles
instead there's an amorphous blob of Christians whose interpretations change from one day and denomination to the next
you are institutionally incapable of spreading the word of God outside of some bare basics you manage to agree on

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:36:36 2021 No.19188494 >>19181023 if your serious, force yourself to do the rosary everyday, you will either dropt the rosary and masturbate or stop masturbating and do rosary from now on

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:40:09 2021 No.19188517

>>19188471
>instead there's an amorphous blob of Christians whose interpretations change from one day and denomination to the next
I know, right? Pope's change every, what, decade, and suddenly everyone in Christendom has to flip their views around because what was once a heresy is now saintly.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:42:30 2021 No.19188526

>>19188206
I started going back to church a few years ago after a super-edgy atheist phase, and I agree that Christianity is coming back into the broader culture in certain ways. At least in America the atheism/religion conflict was a major front in the culture war during the GWB years when I was a kid w/ the War on Terror, and the battles over intelligent design and same-sex marriage, but those issues are politically dead. Like now that race and gender have become the hot spots of cultural conflict, there's room for us to recognize how much of our values on all sides are shaped by our common Christian heritage.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:46:27 2021 No.19188552

>>19188206
It feels like it's slowly but surely bubbling through the surface. I seem to see it only among weirdos right now: outcasts, strangers, random people, people in weird places like here or bizarre sections of Twitter. But we all know that the things that start in those places rarely stay there.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:50:18 2021 No.19188574 >>19178849 St. Faustina Kowalska The Bible St. Isaac the Syrian Simply Jesus by N. T. Wright Philippians 4:5

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:52:58 2021 No.19188584
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Every time we have a Catholic thread I like to shill the Jesus of Nazareth books. They're full of theology and prayer, but are not difficult to read, and contain a great meditation on the life of Christ. I feel like, especially for people who think of it as "based and redpilled," Catholicism can sometimes obscure the person of Jesus. That's why these books from Benedict are so good. They're basically all about how the Catholic Church views Jesus. They're a good place to go once you've read the Gospels.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:55:14 2021 No.19188595 >>19188526 True and hopeful

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 18:55:30 2021 No.19188596

>>19188517
you imply this falsehood and yet the church has remained a coherent body, in communion with each other, despite the diversity within, across the world. Christ's people, united
how often does pastor joe change? how many are there?
how many handfuls of churches manage to agree on the same label and be in communion with each other?
how long does tenuous agreement even last?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 19:06:39 2021 No.19188649 >>19179327 >being a hipster about religion

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 19:09:13 2021 No.19188663 >>19188206 I think you're right. I was an atheist from my late childhood until recently but found the faith again through reading and a profusion of new Catholic media.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 19:44:16 2021 No.19188803

>>19181023
Demons are real, they whisper and encourage sin and shame repentance. Pray everyday, stop browsing things that only increase your malicious passion, never give up and always remember sin is evil and destroys your soul. It's normal that after you commited the shameful act you feel worthless and turn away from God, don't do that, for hidding in shame from God is the tool of the devil to drag you into further despair. Repent and ask for forgiveness.
You can do it, always believe that, you can choose to not sin with the help of God.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 19:46:48 2021 No.19188813 >>19183015 Indeed. There's some interest highsight from the people here, especially one or two anons that are scholars.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 19:56:18 2021 No.19188859

>>19188301
wrong retard, my argument is not that old is bad. My argument is that old does not automatically mean good. Retard.

>unlike us prots who just make up interpretations as we go
as opposed to caths, who just write a new fanfic into church doctrine if they don't like what was already written

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 22:50:57 2021 No.19189545 >>19188584 Thank you for the recommendation.

Anonymous Thu Oct 7 23:03:28 2021 No.19189588

>>19179327
Not everyone, but most are and enough that a containment general is necessary.
>>19188649
He’s right to gatekeep out the insincere; people using a guise of faith (which they don’t actually have) to justify reactionary autism out of contrarianism is not going to help the church get better.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 7 23:30:52 2021 No.19189688 >>19188206 >cultural Christianity Some call this "wokeness" if you restrict "Christianity" to "Northern liberal Protestantism"

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 01:36:34 2021 No.19190084 >>19189688 I'd argue they're just following Jesus' words to the T.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 01:46:28 2021 No.19190120 >>19183132 >there has never once been a serious Christian post in 4chan >from my pov this has never taken place in my experience of the site Sounds like your speaking for only yourself here, pal.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 02:05:57 2021 No.19190178 >>19190084 And yet they reject the Resurrection, the most important thing in Christianity.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 05:36:52 2021 No.19190714 >>19190120 You think Christians would browse this site?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 05:58:52 2021 No.19190752 >>19186295 Why would you restrict yourself to today? Anyway try C.S. Lewis to start with

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 06:42:23 2021 No.19190851 >>19188494 Can confirm.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 08:09:29 2021 No.19191132 >>19188206 >Any other anons done the same? Yes. God gave me the strength to abandon pornography and return to the Faith within the last year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 08:18:54 2021 No.19191156 >>19188317 Pray! Ask for God's help and light: O Lord, in your loving kindness illuminate my mind to see your truth.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 08:25:12 2021 No.19191179 >>19188803 These words are true. Good post.

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 08:46:56 2021 No.19191243

I grew up in a 3rd world village where we’d all pray the rosary together and practiced our faith unironically. I’m curious, why do atheists keep saying “there’s no Christians on 4chan”? Are Western countries in such a state of apostasy that that assume anyone who’s religious must be pretending?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 08:57:49 2021 No.19191280 >>19191243 >Are Western countries in such a state of apostasy that that assume anyone who’s religious must be pretending? Partly that, partly wishful thinking on their part, and partly because they wish to avoid engaging with contrary viewpoints.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 09:08:10 2021 No.19191312 >>19191243 >Are Western countries in such a state of apostasy that that assume anyone who’s religious must be pretending? Unironically yes.

>>	Armond White's review Fri Oct 8 09:20:22 2021 No.19191343 >>19191243 >Are Western countries in such a state of apostasy that that assume anyone who’s religious must be pretending? The mere thought of christians is scary and a threat for them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 09:40:11 2021 No.19191401 >>19191243 Honestly yes. Secularism is our new religion.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 09:47:53 2021 No.19191429 >>19191243 Reminder that (((catholics))) aren't Christians at all. >>19191343 nobody's scared of catholics bro, they can control catholics by controlling the pope. and that's exactly what they've done.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 11:34:07 2021 No.19191971 >>19191243 > Are Western countries in such a state of apostasy that that assume anyone who’s religious must be pretending? Basically yes

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 11:38:10 2021 No.19191994

>>19190084
Well, following Jesus's words requires you to actually believe in Him. It's closer to:
>If you were a Christian whose faith was centered on equality of all before God, all humans being made in the Imago Dei, concern for the poor and victimized, etc., and you ceased to believe that things happened in what is today Palestine ~2000 years ago as described in the Gospels... where would you end up?
To which the answer for Anglophones is basically "wokeness" as it is called now. Not that there weren't other iterations under different names, it's just becoming more widespread as belief in the Christian revelation declines.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 12:22:53 2021 No.19192219 >>19191429 >prots revert to jewish OT >prots create israel >prots fund israel to this day >(((catholics)))

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 12:29:52 2021 No.19192256 File: 29 KB, 326x500, 41uqwbaZZpL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19192219 >(((Donald Jesuit Trump))) >le pope supports lgbt >the leaders in the vatican literally live above a gay bathhouse you're nothing but a lost little lamb, anon

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 13:22:44 2021 No.19192542 >>19191429 >Catholics aren’t Christians Reminder that what you’re saying is (((((full of shit))))) Prots can fuck off this general. Go take your 95 theses to the bottom of the sea, Heretic.

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 14:08:45 2021 No.19192783

I'm protestant but I really admire the catholic tradition. I love the art and tbe philosophy and often find myself looking up historical catholic resolutions to questions I might encounter. Ive thumbed through the most recent Catechism, read Augustine's Confessions, and am somewhat acquainted with scholastic philosophy.
What are some very fundamental catholic books and literature I should read to further my appreciation for the catholic tradition?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 14:23:16 2021 No.19192858 >>19192542 >waaahhh make me, you dumb nigger. gonna keep shredding your bitch ass cult for shits and giggles. too bad you can't excommunicate me huh. fag

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 14:28:08 2021 No.19192884 File: 612 KB, 2560x1707, 150116-jones-gay-vatican-tease_z9pw97.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Four in five Vatican priests are gay, book claims https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/12/four-in-five-vatican-priests-are-gay-book-claims

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 14:43:19 2021 No.19192946 >>19192884 >the guardian

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 15:42:46 2021 No.19193246

>>19192783
You might enjoy Louis Bouyer, The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism.

Bouyer was an ordained Lutheran minister who converted to Catholicism. A brilliant scholar, and a fine writer. This book is a kind of theological/historical analysis of the very early stages of the Reformation, deeply informed by Bouyer's personal knowledge and experience of Protestant spirituality.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 15:45:52 2021 No.19193254 >>19192946 so are you saying they're making it up? prob making up all the pedophilia cases too right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 15:48:13 2021 No.19193263 >>19192884 Bless the modern inquisitors for never ceasing to expose the disguised heretics.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 15:57:29 2021 No.19193308 Read Morte D'Urban

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 16:44:05 2021 No.19193559 >>19193254 Probably. http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 16:45:05 2021 No.19193565 >>19192256 >Book written by a faggot trying to blame conservatives who oppose Bergoglio's agenda. Classic misdirection.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 17:00:08 2021 No.19193635 >>19193559 I wonder (((who))) wrote this >>19193565 does vatican leadership live above a gay bathhouse or not?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 20:47:47 2021 No.19194558 >Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. Uh, what did He mean by this??? What was the problem with eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil if it doesn't even work?

Anonymous Fri Oct 8 22:21:48 2021 No.19194881
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>>19192884
>In the Closet of the Vatican

This book was written by a gay faggot who has an axe to grind with the Church, and everyone who's actually read it says that it contains little actual reporting and a whole lot of conjecture.

It does have a really cool quote about Cardinal Sarah, though, I'll see if I can find it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 8 22:28:18 2021 No.19194901 File: 30 KB, 850x567, 8234a5eb01032073959d4cba46e27e80_XL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19194881 Found it: >Sarah is a great mystic. He prays constantly, as if he's under some sort of spell. He's frightening. He's literally frightening.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:09:01 2021 No.19195261 do you consider baptists as Christians?

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS Sat Oct 9 00:14:45 2021 No.19195283 >>19195261 You know who John the baptist is?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:37:08 2021 No.19195382 >>19195283 She went to Southern Baptist U but somehow she never did found out who John the Baptist was.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:38:53 2021 No.19195389

>>19187888
Yes it is necessary, no it will actually help those efforts

The Church does not have to be a centralised vicegrip of the curia as it has been since Trent, it has flourished in the past with a looser structure.

The Church must spread it's influence but I cannot see the current model of spreading only the Latin Rite as a franchise of a highly centralised Italian bureaucracy around the world accomplishing this. It is plainly failing, and has been for decades.

I simply wonder if loosening their grip on things like local rites would help spread the influence, give people a greater sense of local belonging to Christianity than cookie cutter nuChurch stuff.

Also important to remember the Church is all believers, not just the Church® which are the salaried employees of the Vatican. The influence of the former is what you want to spread, not just the latter

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:40:10 2021 No.19195394 >>19188012 >Dont deformate God words. You know what i mean, you are letting the Evil speak for you now. Different guy here If you don't know that's fine, but at least be honest about it

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:41:06 2021 No.19195397 >>19188584 Read the infancy gospels one years ago and thought it was breddy good

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:49:16 2021 No.19195411
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>>19195397
I really love Benedict/Ratzinger. Francis is just okay but I adore Benedict. I think he's going to be a saint some day, and also a Doctor of the Church. I think he will have an immense legacy in the decades and centuries to come.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:49:25 2021 No.19195413 >>19194901 This characteristic should be mandatory for any Cardinal tbqh

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:53:00 2021 No.19195425

>>19192884
Might not be that high but there is 100% definitely some truth to it

I have a gay friend who has chatted to priests openly on Grindr before. He asked one guy what the deal was and he said that you get guys joining the priesthood because they can't accept that they're gay, and are trying to make it go away

It's honestly the best argument in favour of destigmatising homosexuality from the church's point of view. The less of these guys you having going in to try and suppress their sexual hangups, the less bad sexual shit will occur.

Or at least TRY and screen them out but possibly too late for that now

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:54:00 2021 No.19195429 >>19193559 >>19193559 If anything the paedophilia stats supports the large number of gays in the church. Abuse victims were overwhelmingly male in contrast to normal society, where they're overwhelmingly female

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 00:59:16 2021 No.19195445

>>19195411
He's a fantastic scholar but imho he's a better scholar than a Pope

The current state of the church is not his fault, but for whatever reason God's Rottweiler was not up to the task of righting the ship. He realised this and abdicated (for some weird reason deciding to invent a title rather than the historical precedent of just returning to Cardinal), leaving the faithful wide open for Francis and the St. Gallens

I don't know if the Church has any candidates that are strong enough to fix it at this point. You need someone with high levels of deviousness, personability and forcefulness of will .

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:01:00 2021 No.19195454 >>19195445 I wont mass reply but you guys got me convinced on Benedict. What are some essential readings by him?

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:03:24 2021 No.19195463

>>19191243
Sincerity has been collapsing in the West for decades. No one truly believes in anything objective anymore, and all activities are consequently just surrogate activities to give people meaning.

Basically the conception of a world in which Christianity is the objective truth has collapsed, now Christianity is one lens for truth of many, to be chosen if one likes. When this occurs you can't put the genie back in the bottle, which Nietzsche correctly realised

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:04:09 2021 No.19195466 >>19195454 I've only read the Infancy Gospels one but I've heard basically all his work is good

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:04:50 2021 No.19195469
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>>19195454
The Jesus of Nazareth series, which I mentioned up here >>19188584

Another good option is his Introduction To Christianity book. Also he has a dialogue with Jurgen Habermas that's supposedly excellent.

Really Benedict wrote a fucking ton of stuff and all of it is good. You can't go wrong with any of it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:05:50 2021 No.19195475 File: 26 KB, 322x499, 51UT43NdlVL._SX320_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19195469 Here's what the Habermas dialogue looks like.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:09:26 2021 No.19195490
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>>19195463
Fun fact: this is why both Benedict and Francis want to call attention to climate change. Benedict is more explicit about it than Francis, but it's the project they both share.

The idea is: climate change IS objective reality. You can't deny it. You see some people in the United States trying to deny it, but they're an increasingly small minority and it's increasingly clear they're out of their minds. Fires increase. Droughts increase. Hurricanes get stronger. Sea levels rise and cities are flooded. Ice caps melt.

This is all objective reality and it defeats postmodernism. What the fuck is the point of someone like Derrida when all the coastal cities get flooded? It's no longer a constructed reality, it's real, hard reality that escapes all attempts to engineer a counternarrative.

Benedict and Francis have both realized that this is the key to bringing Christianity back into the popular sphere. Because if climate change is an objective truth, then it invites the question: what are some other truths which are objective? What are some other things that are really real, and not subject to the lens of interpretation? And so through this, Benedict and Francis argue, men can be led back to God.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:15:38 2021 No.19195516

>>19195490
>the idea is: climate change IS objective reality.

The idea of focusing on a visible and objective consequence of human sin and weakness is a clever one, but the weakness of this argument is that plenty of people DO deny it, and the science is opaque to the man on the street

Consider Al Gore's thing that, iirc, polar icecaps would be gone by 2013. His movie was shilled RELENTLESSLY at the time and by now it's considered to be alarmist bunk. That's not to say Climate Change isn't happening (I know virtually nothing about it), but it does show that it's an idea that relies on faith as much as anything

Having said that, appealing to a concrete and obvious truth visible to the common man is a sound strategy, I just think they could pick their target better.

Without going all /pol/ on it, one example would be transgenderism - the false idea that human technological advancement can render the most instinctive human truth to be untrue is surely a useful entry point for the church, although I understand Francis wants to strike a more conciliatory tone than that

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:15:51 2021 No.19195517 >>19195475 Very interesting. Thanks. I got that and Theology of the Body. I hope this general persists because I would love to discuss these

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:21:50 2021 No.19195536
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>>19195516
At the risk of going all /pol/ myself, I think it's going to take some great tumult. The fall of some power, a major war, great strife. Whether related to climate change or not.

Hell, you're already hearing stories about people rediscovering their faith in the aftermath of the pandemic. Objective reality recentering people on Truth is already happening.

One other thing, which does get /pol/, is: I think something significant is going to have to happen to the United States. In a negative way. The United States to me is the biggest obstacle to the Church's renewal, at least as it is currently constructed. Because it IS the subjectivity, the hyperreality, the thing that people like Baudiillard and Derrida talk about. The constructed reality in which one is free to pick from lenses with which to view the truth. That's America in the 20th and 21st centuries and it's an enemy of the Church in that regard. I do not think the renewal of the Church can come with America as it currently is. I think something terrible is going to have to happen to the United States, in order for the Church to begin serious rebuilding in the West. Maybe it's already in the process of happening. Who knows? Our Lord works in mysterious ways.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:30:49 2021 No.19195560 >>19195516 What a load of nonsense. Scripture says the Earth wont pass away until the Lords return. Climate hysterics are incompatible with Christianity

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:31:33 2021 No.19195563 >>19195490 >climate change IS objective reality. You can't deny it lol. Didn't he say the same about evolution?

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:33:31 2021 No.19195571

>>19195536
I'd agree that some big event may be necessary, but with
>9/11
>Great Recession
>Covid
All in (relatively) quick succession, being all world-changing events, I wonder at what point apathy will just set in to these major changes.

I'd agree on the US, to a degree. It was born out of Enlightenment rationality and in turn spread an ever more extreme version of that throughout the world. The rest of the West is now infected with total relativity of culture, I don't think collapsing the US will solve it.

At a basic level, this is how I see the problem: you have a fundamental division in how the Church thinks and how the common man now thinks namely
>do you think truth is objective?
or
>do you think truth is subjective?

While Christianity was the dominant worldview, truth was objective, so people felt that meaning came from God. This is the opinion of the Church.

Now people view truth as subjective, in other words that truth and meaning comes from themselves, when you get right down to it. Nietzsche saw that this would happen, and argued that humanity's progression depended on developing people who could shape the world to their will (as I understand it), rather than being shaped by the will of others.

So the Church's task is to take people who believe that they determine truth and make them accept that God actually determines it. The problem that Nietszche points out (and I personally agree with) is that you can go from an Objective -> Subjective worldview but going backwards is nearly impossible. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

I don't think the West exists without Christianity, but I'm uncertain what the way forward is with Christianity. Possibly it may need to evolve, as much as this makes online trads shriek about modernism.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:38:36 2021 No.19195582
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>>19195571
Should have used pic related. This is a good visual example of the subjective worldview in action

>MY truth, not THE truth, in the sense that what you believe to be true is equally valid as what someone else does
>Beauty presented as subjective, the logic being that different people have different views on what's beautiful or attractive, therefore this being 'beautiful' to some is equally valid as someone else seeing Eva Green or someone hot as 'beautiful'

This is the core problem, people can say this fat blob is not beautiful but once subjectivity takes root, all this means is that THEY don't find her beautiful. To return that to something objective on a mass scale may not even be possible imo

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:43:23 2021 No.19195588
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>>19195571
>>19195582
So what's needed, then? Some great miracle? Some great display of God's power? We had at least one of those in the 20th Century with the Miracle of the Sun, but it doesn't seem to have had an effect. But it does seem like something literally miraculous would have to happen, something that involved God coming out of Heaven in some regard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:43:48 2021 No.19195590 >>19195582 There is no reason you have to include all human beings in your ingroup. period. I dont accept blacks or leftists inside my ingroup so beauty suddenly becomes completely objective again

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:48:26 2021 No.19195601

Catholic bros, I'm being stumbled by the idea of hell. My brother nearly killed himself and I spent days worrying about him going to hell. My dad is an atheist anand my mom is a wiccan. I worry about their souls too. I worry that one of their deaths will make me lose faith because I just can't accept that they're in hell. What is the justifcation for it? Whats the logic that makes it make sense? How do I handle the thought of hell cominf from a loving God? I tried reading John Hicks take on it but he's a bona fide hereitc. How do I accept christ without falling into heresy about hell

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:50:59 2021 No.19195607

>>19195590
If you choose your ingroup with a specific set of beliefs then by definition that is subjective. You're deciding on a shared belief and stating that as how you're going to view the world

To be clear, that's fine, but it's fundamentally different from this belief being just the way things are, in the way that the sky is obviously blue. You don't choose the view the sky as blue, but in the current era you do need to choose to view the world through a Christian lens. That's the point I'm making - there has been a fundamental break between these two mindsets.

>>19195588
Christianity at one point was a 'chosen' belief rather than an objective worldview, possibly it needs to go back to that state in some way.

But tbqh I don't really know. Returning to that worldview is like stepping through a mirror

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:53:33 2021 No.19195611

>>19195607
>Christianity at one point was a 'chosen' belief rather than an objective worldview, possibly it needs to go back to that state in some way.

Doesn't Ratzinger's famous quote about the future of the Church say exactly this? That Christianity is going to become a chosen thing again, rather than a default thing?

And Ratzinger said that, though this would cause the Church to lose much of its worldly power and privilege, it would be the key to its renewal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 01:54:43 2021 No.19195613 >>19195611 Sounds like protestantism desu

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:00:35 2021 No.19195627

>>19195611
I think he's probably right on that.

One thing I'd say is that people usually read the quote (if I'm remembering the right one) and think he just means the church is going to get smaller. In reality, it may go down to the level of something like Gurjieff Groups or minor protestant churches or something. Small, niche groups meeting in rented rooms, for example (like SSPX already do in some places).

The difference here is that it would lose the illusion of being a fundamental part of society in the way that other religious groups aren't. It would become just another religious group. Whether or not it survives that transition is hard to say, but I think it may be inevitable.

Ultimately imo its this point that people are subconsciously picking up on when people call online trads 'larpers', it feels like they're deciding to believe something, like any other chosen belief; it feels inauthentic. If the Church wants to survive and regrow it needs to hold onto the authenticity

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:05:22 2021 No.19195641

>>19195627
>Ultimately imo its this point that people are subconsciously picking up on when people call online trads 'larpers', it feels like they're deciding to believe something, like any other chosen belief; it feels inauthentic. If the Church wants to survive and regrow it needs to hold onto the authenticity

But I don't see what's the problem about that. Is that not how Christ called the Apostles? Christianity was a chosen thing from the beginning, or rather a called thing. God calls whom He calls. God called Paul in the same way.

Converts are a sign of strength, not weakness. You must choose to believe in all of it. You must choose to believe that a man can rise from the dead. That the supernatural and the miraculous is real. That God exists and founded the Church.

And if Catholicism grows to a dramatic extent it can force itself into the fabric of a society that previously did not know it. This is happening in parts of Africa right now, and in Asia too.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:06:28 2021 No.19195645

>>19195601
>What is the justifcation for it?
>Whats the logic that makes it make sense?
>How do I handle the thought of hell coming from a loving God?

Let's say that God told you in a dream that he sent your brother to hell and that doing so was just, but the logic of why was beyond your grasp. Would you accept His judgement and action or not?

Maybe a tough example, but ultimately that's a test of whether you truly trust God's judgement even when it contradicts your own.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:12:57 2021 No.19195665

>>19195641
>This is happening in parts of Africa right now, and in Asia too.

I live in Asia as an expat, and imho it's not happening in the way you think. The form of Christianity out here is quite different, it's much more 'thin'. They LOVE American-style protestantism, megachurches especially, where you sing about how great Jesus is and that's it.

Filipinos are a good example - they're nominally very strong Catholics but the form that takes is usually
>I love jesus! :)
With no further thought put into it than that. Which is fine, but it sometimes comes across like Christ may as well be a local god or something.

That's not to say that Asians aren't capable of authentic Catholic devotion and practice or something, far from it, but simply that the spread of 'Catholicism' in some parts of the world is not quite as positive as it seems on paper imo. In some cases it comes across as a different religion entirely.

SSPX have set up a ton of locations in Asia so that may improve things but I find it hard to relate to the Christianity I see here, it's just different in a way I can't put my finger on.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:17:14 2021 No.19195670 File: 355 KB, 1580x1122, download (11).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What's the deal with Latin Mass now, did Frank completely ban it or is it still going on?

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:25:00 2021 No.19195683

>>19195670
Basically, almost every single bishop in a Latin Mass-heavy country backed off and granted existing Masses the approval they needed. There's a handful of exceptions in the US and France and other places, but generally the vast majority of the Latin Masses are being allowed to continue.

There's actually a really strong sense from the Vatican that they may have fucked up. Even some of the Francis-friendly bishops, like Cardinal Cupich, allowed their Latin Masses to continue. It seems to have been a big blunder and even the Holy Father has backtracked from the initial declaration a bit.

It will be a boon to the SSPX and the FSSP and the ICKSP, is what will happen.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:27:49 2021 No.19195693

>>19195641
>But I don't see what's the problem about that. Is that not how Christ called the Apostles? Christianity was a chosen thing from the beginning, or rather a called thing. God calls whom He calls. God called Paul in the same way.

Nothing in theory, but it will be very different from the Church we see now, and it will not be the backbone of Western culture that it has been to date. It will be competing in the marketplace of ideas freely, which in one sense is a good thing.

A question I would have is whether or not it would survive vs. systems of thought based on direct experience. Reading through Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future atm and Rose brings up this point. Ultimately Christianity initially developed in an the pagan world, where the mysterious and illogical was taken for granted. If it is to repeat this process in a world obsessively focused on the rational, it may need to adapt its messaging if it's to attract people to the idea of the resurrection etc

I guess my overall point is that people trying to turn back the clock to a Catholic-led christendom are deluding themselves, and what's needed is to prepare for a world in which Catholicism is one competing idea among many. Benedict already basically said this, but it doesn't seem to have filtered down to general consciousness

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:29:54 2021 No.19195699

>>19195683
That's good to hear.

Honestly I kind of gave up a bit when I heard about the banning. If the Church wants to commit suicide by nuking its only growing sector then let it.

Good to hear that they've come to their senses a bit, but they fact that they even considered it worries me for the future, they really just don't understand the problem

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:33:38 2021 No.19195707

>>19195699
All these guys are old, remember that. Francis is in his 80s, all these guys are in their 70s and 80s. They are not the future fo the Church. Don't forget that. If you want to know what the future of the Church looks like, try to find the younger Catholics. The laypeople, the priests, the monks, the nuns, in their teens and 20s and 30s. They will shape the Church for the next century.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:38:34 2021 No.19195719
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[ERROR]

>>19195693
I guess the reason this doesn't bother me is that I truly do believe that the Catholic Church is God's Church. I really do believe that God looks out for the Church, that Christ looks out for it. That Christ has ensured that the Church will spread to the ends of the Earth, that it will survive all attempts to destroy it, that "the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it."

And I think this is a thing people miss when they discuss what is going to happen to the Catholic Church. Sure, if you're an atheist, or I guess a Baptist or a Lutheran, it looks like one religious denomination among many, which could rise or fall. But as a believing Catholic, I believe God is with the Church. I believe the Church has the Holy Spirit guiding it and looking out for it. So I think any prediction of its demise is premature, and I think it will triumph over the troubles of the modern world in a way that many of its critics and observers do not foresee. It's a hell of a thing to have God Himself on your side, as an institution.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 02:39:51 2021 No.19195724

>>19195665
>Filipinos are a good example - they're nominally very strong Catholics but the form that takes is usually

I'm Filipino and what you say is true, Filipinos generally don't try to differentiate between the types of Christian sects that exist, which is why there are so many independent 'churches' in the country.

Even LGBT people here go to Church unlike gay people in the West who make anti-Christianity a part of LGBT identity.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:02:03 2021 No.19195800

>>19195560
In Genesis, God told Adam, and by extension all of humanity, to have "dominion [...] over the earth" (Genesis 1:27-28), and "to work it and take care of it" (Genesis 2:15). Why would he grant the role of stewardship to humanity for the purpose of maintaining the earth if it is not at risk of being damaged? By your argument, wouldn't this be completely arbitrary?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:02:22 2021 No.19195802 File: 171 KB, 987x1406, Our+Lady+of+Sorrows+(2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19188494 Second this. Also the Angelus at dawn, midday and nightfall. Holy Queen pray for our protection from the snares of Satan please

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:05:32 2021 No.19195814 >>19195607 >If you choose your ingroup with a specific set of beliefs then by definition that is subjective. Ethnic groups are not build aound believes, but around community.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:15:34 2021 No.19195838

>>19195724
Yeah that's what I've observed here as well, there seems to be a million random churches giving out t-shirts to filipinos.

It's not to shit on filipinos or something, but more an observation that the form of Catholicism present in flip culture is not exactly the same as we imagine in the west, it's much more surface-level, at least at its present stage of development

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:16:08 2021 No.19195841 >>19181093 Try BVM and Joseph.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:22:07 2021 No.19195852

>>19183789
Seems to me all we need is to keep the exact structure of the old liturgy but use vernacular language. Keep a latin form as extraordinary and have novus ordo become just the ancient rite in vernacular, i.e. the ordinary form of the rite. Thoughts?

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:25:34 2021 No.19195862

>>19195838
We stopped taking Catholicism seriously after we opened up to the world after Independence.

If you read up on Spanish era Filipinos, they took the faith much more seriously, mixed in with their own cultural beliefs and myths that mixed with the Spanish enforced Catholic Church.

What we have now is Folk Catholicism, the Catholic Church used to be very powerful in the Philippines until the revolutionaries like Rizal exposed their abuses and the American occupation introduced the Filipinos to other Christian interpretations resulting in a weaker Catholic faith.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:25:37 2021 No.19195863 >>19184809 Angelus and Our Father at dawn, midday and sunset.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:27:34 2021 No.19195870 >>19184824 Dont though. Masturbating is not how you stop masturbating. You have to replace the thoughts with holy thoughts. You have to pray. The rosary is the favoured spiritual weapon of this period. Use it!

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:38:26 2021 No.19195907

>>19187972
Be honest : what is a higher morality: 1. Eye for an eye. 2. Turn the other cheek?

When you stand before God will you want mercy or justice?

Muslims acknowledge that Lord Jesus will come again. You have a grave prepared for him in Madina. You know He is the messiah. Why persist in rebellion against God's choosen saviour?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:40:53 2021 No.19195916 >>19195907 I expect friendship from God.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 03:47:37 2021 No.19195936

On the subject of masturbation, I have never fully understood why it's considered a mortal sin.

The objection to it seems to be against the use of nature - in that the sexual impulse is intended to be used for reproduction. Could this logic not be applied to a lot of other things? For example, is using glasses against the use of nature because God intended your eyes to be your sole source of vision? Or wearing shoes because God intended you to harden your feet by walking barefoot? These examples might seem contrived but its the same logic

On another note, even chimps masturbate, albeit only in states of captivity if we believe BAP. If even animals do it, can we realistically say it is unnatural?

As a pleasure-seeking activity that incurs some psychological damage I think it should be demonised for sure, even considered sinful, but I don't see why it is considered MORTALLY sinful

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 04:23:50 2021 No.19196000

>>19195588
>what's needed, then
Nothing, really. There are periods of chaos, then order swings back. This era is particularly bad, but I don't think we are in the ultimate era for that. Anon was right about the end of America coming along with such change. Our lifetimes will probably see a world that is very different from the one at the turn of the century.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 04:59:42 2021 No.19196078

>>19195463
Nietzsche was one of the most interesting Christian thinkers of all time, even though he didn't want to be.

Its more true to say that all activities are just snares of the devil to lead us away from the Truth of theosis. Activity has today become the willful blindfold people place over their eyes to ignore or reject the Truth of Christ.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:02:59 2021 No.19196091 >>19195490 The transcendental reality is that the sky has cracked and we are awaiting the angelic trumpet blast at any moment. The new flood is happening and it is because of our sin this time, not God's wrath.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:12:03 2021 No.19196115

>>19195571
I think the problem with this analysis is that this idea of the relativity of Truth is destroyed in Christ. Its Pilate washing his hands. After Christ the only sense in which Truth can be relative is under the aegis of Christ. Relatives resolve in the absolute, or they destroy themselves in falsity and dissipate into nothingness. Its true perhaps that we've reached a point of subjectivism, but this only heightens the contradiction, so to speak, of the world amd Heaven. It is the time of the sorting now. Will the son of man find faith on earth when he returns?

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:15:55 2021 No.19196129

>>19195601
Even the tax collectors and sinners may enter Heaven before the righteous. Remember not everyone who says to Him Lord Lord will enter Heaven but they who do the work of the Father.
Who are we to judge? Worry less about others going to hell and the foolishness of confusing your judgement for God's.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:28:26 2021 No.19196157

>>19195916
Then be friendly to others and show mercy to them. Do Gods will and love his Son and you will become a brother of Jesus with God as your Father. Don't "kill the unbelievers and lie in wait for them after the holy months are over" or whatever the sword verses say.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:31:10 2021 No.19196167 >>19195936 Because you killing millions of potential people. Those are souls and they don't go away. They follow you and cry out for justice to the Almighty.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:33:54 2021 No.19196174 Anyone got good recs for lives of the saints type books?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:37:30 2021 No.19196182 >>19196167 >souls in sperm This is also the logic behind sex magic in things like OTO, where objects are consecrated with semen that is then consumed. This was the common theory of how sperm worked until chromosones were discovered iirc

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:39:32 2021 No.19196188 >>19195936 >that incurs some psychological damage What?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:40:24 2021 No.19196192 >>19196078 >theosis Why did this concept never catch on in Catholicism in the same way that it did in Orthodoxy? The idea that we can in some way raise ourselves towards God seems to have been autisticly resisted by the Church

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:41:20 2021 No.19196197 >>19196188 Fap a lot, get depressed and weak Many examples of this all over this website if you're asking for source

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:45:12 2021 No.19196211 >>19196192 Its just called divinisation or something. Its not really rejected as I understand it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 05:46:25 2021 No.19196219 File: 18 KB, 256x389, The_Mirror_of_Simple_Souls.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I wonder if this work will ever be reevaluated by the Church The decision to declare it heresy seems to have been as much political as anything

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 06:06:08 2021 No.19196274 >>19194901 Based

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 06:28:44 2021 No.19196322
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[ERROR]

>>19195536
This has been my thought for some time. As the ongoing slow motion collapse progresses, individual comfort will decrease, as will the allure of niche special interest issues such as "trans rights". Western people will begin to exit the historical anomoly that was the last few hundreds years and our lives will begin to resemble what they have for the majority of history, complete with the centrality of religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 06:31:55 2021 No.19196333 >>19194901 Man I wish someone said something as cool about me

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 06:32:42 2021 No.19196336

>>19183802
Generally books written by others about him or collections of his writings are better than his own. Dale Ahlquist (I think that's how it's spelled) collections of Chestertons writings are very good. Common Sense 101: Lessons from G.K. Chesterton is a great starter

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 06:48:12 2021 No.19196374

>>19195683

>It will be a boon to the SSPX and the FSSP and the ICKSP, is what will happen.

I'm interested as to your thought process here. If even one church run by one of these societies can no longer operate, that's a negative, imo. Personally, I attend an ICKSP church and we aren't affected because our Bishop seems to like the TLM.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 07:22:09 2021 No.19196475 >>19194901 Evil is and should be frightened by holiness

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 08:16:14 2021 No.19196624 Are SSPX heretical?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 08:19:26 2021 No.19196632 >>19196624 Not heretical in terms of their teaching but their communion with Rome is kind of a grey area

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 08:35:27 2021 No.19196675

>>19195560
Climate alarmists like to go all 'The world will end in 10 years!!111', but the general idea that there is going to be a massive shift in ecological balance is true. Humanity and the earth will certainly survive whatever happens, but millions of people could experience famine, be displaced, etc. It is a genuine danger.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 09:04:37 2021 No.19196756 >>19183802 Zoom zoom

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 09:52:43 2021 No.19196952 >>19195670 I live in New England and there's a Tridentine Mass every Sunday 15 minutes from me, and a Latin Novus Ordo every Wednesday about 10 minutes away. Seems like not too much has changed, at least not on local levels.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 09:55:08 2021 No.19196966

>>19195707
I hope there's a church left to save by that point. We haven't even got to the Boomer popes yet, Francis is Silent Generation.

The tridentine community is the immediate future of the Latin Rite, it's the only bit with any vitality. If they hate it so much I wish they'd split the Latin Rite in two, and have the Trent Rite as a separate thing so trads can just be left alone.

Eventually though, even the tridentine stuff will have to evolve. I actually fear a future in which its just frozen in time as much as I fear a V2 globohomo future

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 10:24:25 2021 No.19197071

>>19195936
>I have never fully understood why it's considered a mortal sin.

In the marital act, a man and a woman become, as it were, co-workers with God in creating a new human soul, which will live forever. As such, it is a sacred act.

However, our desires have been all knocked out of true by the Fall, and in particular, and in some special way, our sexual desires.

>even chimps masturbate
A man's erection, and the act of ejaculation have a distinct teleological purpose -- to plant the seed, and create new life. This is a God-given ability, not a chance byproduct of evolutionary processes. When used contrary to that purpose, it is, accordingly, a grave sin. In the case of sodomy, it is an especially perverse action -- almost a mockery of the marital act. In the case of masturbation, it imposes psychological damage -- the sin becomes its own punishment, as it were, in the way it becomes compulsive, and traps the mind in a debilitating, unreal world of impossible sexual fantasy.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 10:35:48 2021 No.19197127

>>19197071
The chimp also has this god-given ability to reproduce, all life does. Yet he still masturbates. What means?

>the sin becomes its own punishment, as it were, in the way it becomes compulsive, and traps the mind in a debilitating, unreal world of impossible sexual fantasy.

this I agree with

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 10:39:52 2021 No.19197149

>>19197127
>The chimp also has this god-given ability to reproduce, all life does. Yet he still masturbates. What means?

Human life is different -- fundamentally and profoundly different. A human soul exists for eternity. The human person is made in the image and likeness of God. We are utterly unique in that respect. Accordingly, the marital act is sacred in the human context. It is merely a matter of instinct, akin to eating, in the realm of the lower animals.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 10:52:38 2021 No.19197198 >>19181023 >>19181093 Literally just stop it. Do other things. When you have the urge to jack off, do ten push-ups or read a book or even better yet, go out. You aren't going to masturbate in public, are you, Anon? It's this easy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 11:01:05 2021 No.19197225 >>19197149 This. Jesus made it clear there's a difference between man and animal.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 11:06:47 2021 No.19197238

>>19197127
>this I agree with

But you evidently don't agree with the rest of my remarks. Which is fine. However. Why isn't masturbation simply fun? Why does it have such peculiar and powerful side effects?

It is because you are acting contrary to the nature you have been given by God. Eating too much makes you fat. Masturbation, however, being a perversion of the sacred, damages the human person in his inner being -- in his psychological mind, including his spiritual self, which is ineffable but tied to one's psychology. There is not a direct line between the two - as there is in the case of over-eating and getting fat. But there is a cause and effect, nonetheless, albeit a somewhat mysterious cause and effect. Masturbation tears at the primal roots of our human nature -- it shreds something very deep in us, so deep that we don't really have access to it. We only know we're doing something destructive to ourselves, wounding ourselves, as a result of the after-effects, of the damage done.

The Church is the hospital that cures these wounds. The Church is the fulfillment of the type presented by the Good Samaritan. The sacraments are the medicine the Church uses, especially the sacraments of confession and the Eucharist for this particular ailment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 12:00:33 2021 No.19197462 gonna quit fapping forever from now on lads it'll be difficult but gotta do it

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 12:23:07 2021 No.19197553 >>19196756 I read and loved The Confessions. I'm not burned out on smart phones. Chesterton is just tedious

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 12:37:59 2021 No.19197660 >>19197462 Based. I'm also doing the same brother. Day 2 and going strong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 12:46:54 2021 No.19197713 >>19194901 We need Sarah as the next pope.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 12:49:24 2021 No.19197736

>interested in Catholicism/Christianity in general
>have gf that was raised Mormon but never believed it and is averse to all organized religions as a result
She has a strong sense of morals, seems to believe in God and expresses respect/admiration/veneration for Jesus, Mary, and the saints, she'll even pray now and then, but she doesn't want to participate with an established church.
Her and I have been together for years and plan on getting married soon, once we're a bit more financially stable, I'd like to stay with her and build a family together but I'd also like to explore the faith.
If she does not want to be a Catholic or any defined/practicing Christian, is that considered detrimental to my salvation in some way?

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 12:55:23 2021 No.19197784

>>19197736
"is that considered detrimental to my salvation in some way?" reads as very self-centered looking back, I am concerned with her spiritual state as well but I also don't want to force anything onto her.
I will encourage and invite her, but as a sinner I am in no place to condemn her and do not intend to drive a wedge between us.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 12:58:04 2021 No.19197798

I'm becoming some kind of archetypal failed-Christian alcoholic. I'm trying so hard to get in touch with God and I do find the Bible inspiring as a text but I feel there's an insurmountable abyss between me and faith. I try not to talk about faith because I feel like I shouldn't talk about it from my position. I feel like a massive LARPer although I keep this stuff well hidden.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 13:06:31 2021 No.19197841

And when you start giving some value to God and the Gospels and you see people in their normal conversations it gets really depressing. I've been an ethical vegetarian for many years and being in conversations on subjects adjacent to Christianity or Christianity in general right now feels a lot like what it felt in the first couple years of being a vegetarian. Even people who say they're Christian clearly don't give a shit about any of the traditional Christian values, they openly mock the very basic concepts of Christianity, they think Jesus as a figure is lame and ridiculous. But if you ask them they say oh yeah God exists I believe in God. They have barely more respect for religion than someone who's a hardcore atheist. How do people think like this? What is the point? Just posturing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 13:07:36 2021 No.19197843 >>19197736 It is very detrimental to her salvation, and does not bode well for any children you may have.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 13:10:30 2021 No.19197861 >>19197798 >I try not to talk about faith because I feel like I shouldn't talk about it from my position That is where the devil wants you. Stop wallowing and reach out to a priest or an involved layperson about your issues.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 13:12:06 2021 No.19197870 >>19197841 Remember the parable of the sowing of the grain.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 13:17:12 2021 No.19197905

>>19197736
>>19197784
Forgot to respond to OP's prompts.
>Your favorite Saint
Andrew the Apostle
>Your favorite Book related to Catholicism
The Holy Bible: Knox's Translation
or, Imitation of Christ
>Your favorite Catholic writer
Tolkien
>The last book about Catholicism you've read
bits of the Roman Catechism
>Your favorite Bible verse
"Go thy ways, then, eat thy bread with a stout heart, and drink wine to thy contenting; that done, God asks no more of thee.
Ever be thy garments of white, ever let thy brow glisten with oil; live at ease with the wife that is thy heart’s love, long as this uncertain life is granted thee; fugitive days, here beneath the sun. Live thou and labour thou under the sun as thou wilt, this thy portion shall be, and nothing more.
Whatever lies in thy power, do while do it thou canst; there will be no doing, no scheming, no wisdom or skill left to thee in the grave, that soon shall be thy home."
Ecclesiastes 9:7-10

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 13:17:35 2021 No.19197907

>>19197861
What should I even tell him? That I'm trying to force myself to believe in God when I clearly am incapable of it, or if it is God who is supposed to will faith upon me, He has no intent to? Should I ask if getting closer to Christianity as a desperate attempt to backpedal from all the ruin I've endorsed upon my country is a good and legitimate way to approach God? I mean one of my favorite arguments against the Church used to be that you could do whatever nasty immoral shit you wanted and then simply ask for forgiveness and go to Heaven anyway, and now I'm crawling back to be granted exactly this because I'm appalled by the outcome of the humanist morals I thought so superior?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 13:55:30 2021 No.19198129 File: 150 KB, 2592x1728, Saint_Bernard_2019-08-29T202951.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >favorite saint

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 13:56:30 2021 No.19198135 >>19197907 Why don’t you ask all those questions? Hearing the answers will help.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 14:21:23 2021 No.19198296

>>19198135
>Why don’t you ask all those questions?
Because it's embarrassing. The priest in my neighborhood has seen me act defiant toward the Church through my whole childhood and youth. I hated him because he represented something I didn't like and I never paid basic respects to him and the Faith. There are horrible people I dislike who go to this church and will talk behind my back if they see me. I'm tired of just asking and asking of people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 14:33:38 2021 No.19198374 >>19198296 The shame is how the devil tries to keep you from reaching out to God. Read the parable of the prodigal son, and see how you will be received

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 14:37:51 2021 No.19198409 >>19198374 Can't I at least have some faith first This is way to close to other episodes of my life Actually I can't believe how this exact situation repeats over and over and over

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 15:45:28 2021 No.19198824 >>19198409 How far is the next diocese or church? Somewhere else, where you don't have bad blood with the priests there or know them at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:05:18 2021 No.19198927 >>19187972 no one will ever like your shit religion if you introduce it by saying that its better than the one of whoever you are talking to, fucking mudslime.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:16:40 2021 No.19198985
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>>19198409
There's a man in the Bible who begs Christ to heal his son. When Christ says that he will do it if the man believes in Him, the man falls to his knees and cries out

>Lord, I do believe; help my unbelief!

This has become a prayer for people to pray when their faith wavers, or they have no faith at all. If you wish to believe, ask God for faith. Ask God for the ability to believe. Even if you don't believe right now, ask. You might be surprised at what happens.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:21:51 2021 No.19199020 >>19198985 I'm doing that. Maybe I'm just not desperate enough.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:23:11 2021 No.19199029 >>19198824 There are other churches because I live in a Catholic heavy place. I've had my history with this one though. It feels right to go there. Maybe at unusual hours? I don't know.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:24:03 2021 No.19199036

>>19179705

This. Every conversation, particularly from converts (I use that lightly because I'm willing to bet 5% at best actually have gone to RCIA), immediately goes into an anti-Vatican II invective. I'm not a huge fan of it myself but it kills me how these former atheists cringelords, upon finding that atheism is now mainstream, decide to be the clever contrarian by going overboard into Catholicism, repeating "true church" platitudes, and yet immediately go straight into being borderline schismatic.

I understand that (1) Catholicism is the new way to feel smart because it's the "unpopular" position and (2) LARPers love reading the hagiographies and Church Fathers the same way they like reading TES:Oblivion lore but christ, when will it end? These are the same dudes who will spam GK Chesterton in every thread but hardly actually go to mass and, despite being hardline online, are too autistic to follow through on their alleged beliefs and go through the months-long RCIA because it would require them to talk to a human being.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:41:04 2021 No.19199130 >>19199029 Anon, from what you say, you have bad history with the people in that particular church. It will hurt to go back with your heart bared to them. Are you prepared?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:42:17 2021 No.19199138 >>19196966 Why not just update it by doing it in vernacular? Keep all the forms and rubrics, just adjust the language. I don't see why it needs to change more than that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:44:33 2021 No.19199151 >>19197127 The chimp reproduces out of impulse, we have free will, thus our sexuality can be in service to God or in rebellion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:51:02 2021 No.19199185 >>19198296 How do you think St Peter felt after denying Christ three times?

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 16:54:02 2021 No.19199193

>>19198409
If you have believed it the past, you have to choose to believe again. Its not something that just is the case at first, you need to choose and keep choosing to believe in order to develop faith to the point were you no longer doubt. Ask for the strength to choose God, it is the best choice overall.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:00:28 2021 No.19199217

>>19199130
>It will hurt to go back with your heart bared to them.
I am not sure if this is a bad thing. Despite not having had contact with him ever, I know that priest and I think he somewhat knows me. I think it's better if I talked to him than other priests in another church.
>>19199185
I'm no saint, anon.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:03:46 2021 No.19199238

>>19199217
>I'm no saint, anon.

Sainthood is something of which everyone is capable. This is one of the great secrets of Christianity: that everyone can achieve sainthood. Because to be a saint is merely to follow Christ wherever he leads you. Everyone is capable of that in their own, distinct way.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:06:34 2021 No.19199251

>>19199217
My point is that Jesus new Peter was going to forsake him and forgave him anyway. I think your problem is of will not belief. You know that Jesus loves you, stop wilfully withholding a return of love. Choose love, not rebellion. Love isn't always easy either, sometimes, most of the time, it means sacrifice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:08:27 2021 No.19199259 >>19196174 Seriously, what should I get? Like some sort of encyclopedia of saints. Anyone got anything?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:13:27 2021 No.19199282 >>19199217 As you say, anon. Judge with correct judgement about what to do next, and do not be discouraged by the long road to seeking faith. I pray that you will be able to find some answers. God bless you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:40:22 2021 No.19199432 File: 40 KB, 500x696, 6901064d74aa4318e3cb0cca87772bd3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Best thread on lit in a long time. Someone please be sure to make another when this dies.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:44:12 2021 No.19199451

>>19178849
>>19178849
>>Your favorite Saint
St. Ioannes Calvinus de Geneva
>>Your favorite Book related to Catholicism
Institutio Christianae Religionis
>>Your favorite Catholic writer
St. Ioannes Calvinus de Geneva
>>The last book about Catholicism you've read
Institutio Christianae Religionis
>>Your favorite Bible verse
Ephesians 2:8-9

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:48:50 2021 No.19199469 >>19199251 >I think your problem is of will not belief. The two are tied together aren't they?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:53:25 2021 No.19199492 >>19199469 Sure. All I'm saying is you have to make an effort. Its not enough to somehow just realise and understand, you have to seek in order to find.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 17:58:31 2021 No.19199523 >>19199492 I think I know what to do but it's easier said than done. Thanks anon.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 18:13:58 2021 No.19199599
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>>19178849
>Your favorite Saint
St John the Apostle
>Your favorite Book related to Catholicism
Maybe sayings of the desert fathers
>Your favorite Catholic writer
Nic Gomez Da Vila?
>The last book about Catholicism you've read
The Catechism of Modern Man: All in the Words of Vatican II and Related Documents
>Your favorite Bible verse
Maybe: What shall if profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul. Or
>But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 18:15:17 2021 No.19199607 Trying to decide whether to become a Orthobro or Traditional Catholic. Which sedevectavist sect is the most based and redpilled? Are fascist lay orders really a thing and how do I join them?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 18:16:29 2021 No.19199611 File: 299 KB, 761x1024, 1624314523011.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19199607 forgot pic

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 18:27:38 2021 No.19199667

>>19188526
I don't really understand where you're coming from.
The only reason the cultural conflict has seemed to go away is because the religious side lost hard on every cultural issue. We're at the point where even being pro-life is enough to get you cancelled.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 18:34:56 2021 No.19199699 >>19199259 Golden Legend 1913 catholic encyclopedia

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 19:13:03 2021 No.19199832 >>19199699 Perfect. God bless you and keep you anon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 19:42:54 2021 No.19199936 File: 162 KB, 1710x900, Travis-in-Taxi-Driver-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I wish Ireland was still Catholic as it was during the tension with the UK.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 20:02:06 2021 No.19200022 >>19198985 Saint Therese was such a great person

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 21:00:10 2021 No.19200262
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>>19200022
There's not a single saint who isn't extremely cool and based in his or her own way.

Speaking of, it's Saint John Henry Newman's feast day. He's a personal favorite of mine.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 21:06:38 2021 No.19200298
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>Thread already reached bump limit
crap. I wanted to post here but I was banned, so I don't think my request will be heard, but I wanted to ask /clg/ something. Does anyone have links to the work of Philip Sherrard? I know he's not a catholic but I cannot find most of his works online and I really want to read him. I thought you guys could help, so if anyone can link me to a repository of his work i would be really appreciative. Thank you

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 21:17:26 2021 No.19200353 >>19200298 Allow me to say this as someone who sinned in this way too many times before. Do not pirate. If you want to read the books without buying then there are inter-library loans, but simply downloading a pdf is stealing.

Anonymous Sat Oct 9 21:17:28 2021 No.19200354

>>19199036
>>19199036

As a non-religionfag, this basically confirms everything I ever thought about the influx of Christcuckery on 4chan. Thank you. And the tradcaths are definitely the most cringe of them all. No wonder they remind me of the fedoras - they ARE the fedoras. I just wish they had kept the fashion choice so I could continue to pick them out in real life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 21:21:06 2021 No.19200379 File: 1.63 MB, 540x293, oxrsudk2veb21.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>19200353 >but simply downloading a pdf is stealing

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 21:28:10 2021 No.19200407 >>19200298 Isn't /lit/'s bump limit 300?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 9 21:43:49 2021 No.19200501 >>19181423 Incorrect.

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/lit/ - Literature