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/lit/ - Literature

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19173810 No.19173810 [Reply] [Original]

Anons I can't cope anymore. I don't think anyone really has a clue what the fuck is going on. I've filled my head with useless stuff and I just want to live simply now. But the people on this board call you an NPC if you don't larp as some mystic on the quest for truth, isn't this cult mentality?

>> No.19173812

>>19173810
Also any books on living simply so I can stop this neurosis?
And how do I stop coming here

>> No.19173817

You keep coming back because you know in your heart that a simple life will not be enough for you.

>> No.19173821

>>19173810
are you intoxicated rn

>> No.19173827

>>19173810
Who cares what the people on this board think. Most of them are just projecting larpers.

>> No.19173834

>>19173810
>But the people on this board call you an NPC if you don't larp as some mystic on the quest for truth, isn't this cult mentality?
Yes.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
You have a divine mandate to do what you will

>> No.19173837

>>19173817
I can't suspend my disbelief anymore, none of the shit I see shilled on here seems true to me
>>19173821
No, why?
>>19173827
It's my only form of discussion so I'm easily affected by this. I'm torn between thinking it's all bullshit and being pressured into believing I'm a bugman by people more eloquent than I am, I need an out

>> No.19173844

>>19173837
remember, barely anyone on here actually reads

>> No.19173849

>>19173844
I think that's a meme, this board is by far the most well read on 4chan
Go to /his/ and compare

>> No.19173851

>>19173837
You are agnostic, embrace it, find your true faith.

>> No.19173854

>>19173849
>most well read on 4chan
Is that like being the least painful way to die?

>> No.19173858

>>19173810
you shouldn't let random anons have any influence over you

>> No.19173859
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19173859

>>19173810
Hi anon, entirely understand how you feel. I have stopped reading all philosophy almost three years ago after studying it for ten years, and got into novels and poetry. A simple life does not mean that you won't think or that you won't become more and more aware of what is going on. The idea that life is a "quest for truth" is misleading. In my experience, life looks rather than a gradually waking up and becoming aware of a truth that was always there. It will come to you if you keep paying attention to life, it has nothing to do with how many books you have read and with how complex or accurate your theories about life are. My suggestion is to read lots of good novels and poetry. Joyce was the one who got me out of the old philosophy mindset, so I'm going to suggest Ulysses, but in general just stick to good literature and poetry for a year and you'll immediately see the difference.

>> No.19173863
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19173863

You are now ready for the final redpill of philosophy:
>Man is the measure of all things, of things that are that they are, of things that are not that they are not
Meditate on it deeply and you shall find the truth.

>> No.19173865

>>19173849
not a meme, the vast majority of posters are undergrads in their first philosophy/literature courses or high school students. They seem well read because no one reads in general, but they read very little, and very sparsely.

>> No.19173871

>>19173844
Yeah but all of the regulars do

>> No.19173875

>>19173851
I know I'm agnostic but /lit/ makes me feel like I'm a bugman midwit for it. I don't have a true faith, yes I think that the modern world has many things wrong with it and that scientism is biased but I don't think we should larp as ancient sorcerers either, I just don't know
>>19173858
This is my only form of social contact outside of my family, I spend too much time on here. I want to stop but I keep coming back because the threads are interesting, it's like intellectual junk food

>> No.19173883

>>19173859
Yes, maybe I should get into reading more fiction and poetry. Right now it's like I have an existential crisis every week and I'm in constant anguish over whether I'm missing out on something important, I hate it.
I don't know if I have the required level to read Joyce but I will try.
>>19173863
Relativism is extremely unpopular on /lit/, everyone shrieks in anger when it's brought up. I often read about it being self-refuting ("man is the measure of all things" being a statement on objective truth) but I don't think it's wrong

>> No.19173889

>>19173810
>I don't think anyone really has a clue what the fuck is going on
Why do you think everyone is so hooked on friends, work, and family? No one has a clue and no one cares
You are not upset that you don't understand reality, you are unhappy because you are a failure. Happy people don't care that everything is meaningless
But you can't cope with the fact that you can't do something so basic as getting your shit together, so you call them NPC's or normies just to cope and jerk off to religion, politics, or whatever other schizo mindset will keep you from kys
Suck it up losers

>> No.19173896

>>19173875
>I don't think we should larp as ancient sorcerers
Anon, you are the sane one, you just need to get out here, read other stuff and talk to real people. Larpers aren't real, none of them is englithened, and 90% of the mysticism stuff is bullshit, especially when it comes to Evola threads, Guenon threads, LARP-as-a-christian threads. If they use the word "degeneracy" or "occult" in any context they are most likely stupid and have read - at best - five or six books into the subject they keep sperging about.

>> No.19173925

>>19173810
Some people are so desperate for an answer that they structure their entire selves around the need to believe first and foremost that one exists. It's not a strength; it's a weakness. They've been overcome by their own frailty.

>> No.19173943

>>19173875
As i said, you need to embrace your agnosticism. The reason you are easily swayed is because you believe it all. When you start feeling yourself getting swayed remind yourself that you believe the other stuff just as much because you lack the knowledge to disprove any of it.

>> No.19173948

>>19173810
Take a time off 4channel, friendo

>> No.19173956

>>19173810
You got the vax didn't you?

>> No.19173968

>>19173810
so you are an NPC

>> No.19173979

>>19173896
>>19173948
How do I stop coming here (on /lit/)?
>>19173956
No, why?
>>19173925
I guess but who's to say we're right and they're wrong and that they really haven't realized an answer? Do you never have doubts?
>>19173943
That makes me an eternal fencesitter, despised by all. Should I?

>> No.19174005

>>19173979
>That makes me an eternal fencesitter
No it doesn't. Picking a side is the most NPC thing you can do, 99% of people who do that outsource all their thinking.

>> No.19174006

>>19173968
Why?
>>19173889
I used to be happy and then I discovered /lit/, now I'm constantly anxious about things I'll never be able to figure out

>> No.19174011

>>19174005
How do you cope with uncertainty and alienation as an eternal agnostic?

>> No.19174023

>>19174005
this

>> No.19174034

>>19174011
You will be less uncertain and alienated once you embrace it. You will cease worrying about being right or wrong and fighting unwinnable battles. When you approach everyone as though they are right they become very personable to them, most will not figure it out before it is too late and they are just sort of use to you. Everyone has truths to offer, find them and people will love you for it.

>> No.19174036
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19174036

>>19173883
>I often read about it being self-refuting ("man is the measure of all things" being a statement on objective truth)
I have only just started to contemplate the significance of protagoras's phrase so I don't think I can really say much about it, but I will try. It is both objectively and subjectively true. The notion of objectivy can only be arrived at through the subject. Once nothing is true then everything is. You might want to read more on the method of the skeptics, how they managed to construct equally plausable arguments for both sides of any issue.

Or maybe it's time to step back and enjoy more literary works like the other anon said, for you have realised that all positions are arbitrary and only you can measure their worth- whether they are or are not.

>> No.19174054

>>19173979
>Do you never have doubts?
About the presence of truth and the possibility of life being a quest? Absolutely. I may be entirely wrong, and sometimes it is scary, but the fact that I have not reachhed a plateau of certainty about life in my 20s as most of the larpers pretend to have done makes me feel that I am most likely on the right track. Again, I have read and studied this stuff for a very long time, and while I don't regret doing it, ultimately every progress I did was because I was paying attention to what I was doing and not because I did something specific, supported a specific philosophical/political position, or read a specific book. Books won't make you smarter or more knowledgeable. They can make you more aware of things surrounding you, of your own thoughts and of your own doubts. Having doubts is okay. People who are certain about life being this or that are usually larping under a flag of some kind, and pretend not to see how uncertain and complex reality is.

>> No.19174058

>>19173810
>But the people on this board call you an NPC
If you care about other people thinking you're an NPC, you're still an NPC.

>> No.19174115

>>19174034
Do you mean that instead of embracing uncertainty as a rejection, I should embrace it as an acceptance (of anything being potentially true) in order to not become alienated from everyone?
>>19174036
>The notion of objectivy can only be arrived at through the subject.
Isn't there an infinite loop here? Is this assertion you've made objective or subjective? I don't have a background in epistemology but aren't you making objective statements every time you attempt to assert subjectivity?
I think all positions are arbitrary... but I don't *know* if they are.
>>19174054
>the fact that I have not reachhed a plateau of certainty about life in my 20s
I share this sentiment, it's weird to me that some people genuinely feel as if they've figured out the truth, I don't mean this condescendingly, it's just not something I understand. How can you be certain you're on the right track? What is it that makes something click to that extent?

>> No.19174140

>>19174058
It's not that I deeply care about their opinion as such, I care about the possibility that there is an underlying truth in their criticism
I've engaged in discussion with a lot of the most common ideologues on /lit/ (Christians, Traditionalists, Buddhists, some others) and every time the fact that I can't manage to buy into what they're selling makes me feel as if I must be missing something. They're so deeply convinced of whatever they've realized, so absolutely sure that they're walking the right path, while I'm lost in doubt, so do they actually know something I don't? Or are they just blind to the uncertainty of their own dogmatic assertions? Every time I mention the latter, I'm hit with the old "if you read more/experienced it for yourself, you'd know it's true" but that strikes me as a copout, firstly because I'm not gonna read thousands of pages to refute something I don't believe in (and I doubt they have either), secondly because I don't see personal practice as proof of anything else than personal biases acquired through whichever methods you're using. Am I making a mistake in my reasoning here? It's so simple but everyone tells me I'm retarded when I point it out

>> No.19174142

>>19174115
>I think all positions are arbitrary... but I don't *know* if they are.

Well, you can brush that thought aside since its tautological.

>> No.19174148

>>19174142
It's not possible to brush it aside. You must have some kind of belief to be able to function, if only to survive at all. The belief that all beliefs are arbitrary is still a belief, even if it's a tautology, it applies to itself nonetheless
If I brush it aside, I brush everything aside, and what's left?

>> No.19174167

>>19174115
>I should embrace it as an acceptance (of anything being potentially true) in order to not become alienated from everyone?
That is pretty much what agnosticism is, you are without the knowledge to prove or disprove, so you find what truths you can and accept the ones you can not prove because you can not disprove them either, they will offer you truths either way as long as you are willing to look for them. So when you meet someone you attempt to understand them so you can find those truths, you don't try and prove them wrong or agree with them because that would only serve to obscure those truths. Almost everyone takes very well to such questioning, it feeds their ego more than agreement, you are put worth in and asking for their knowledge, not just a handjob.

>> No.19174201

>>19174167
I understand. Sometimes it's difficult though when you're talking to someone who's actively seeking to convert you to their point of view and takes doubt as offense.
But I'll try to be more accepting instead of dismissive as I have been so far.

>> No.19174224

>>19174167
>>19174201
Also, I feel like when I'm humoring a certain point of view, I'm opening myself up to influence. Rejecting things is easier in order to maintain distance, otherwise I'm constantly filling my mind with possibilities to obsess about.

>> No.19174242

>>19174140
I'm probably one of those religious anons you mentioned, the point still remains that I never would've progressed on this path if I didn't completely annihilate the value of other people's mere opinions. I never have any "allies" in discussions. I like to argue and push forward things I've seen and reasoned to be true. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, because things never work that way, especially not here. Anyhow, all you have to do is free yourself from the snare of other people's thoughts. So many people who will judge you and cast ridicule upon you are themselves snared by an even vaster net, the net of popular opinion or even just the net of some subcultural value system. Casting off the vaster nets is the easier part, because the gaps in the nets are wider. It's the smaller nets of individual opinion that are usually trickier, and require a greater degree of conscious effort to both perceive and shrug off. At the highest level you attain, you will know you've made it to something great due to the absolute lack of anger you will ever experience at the mere statements or views of others. As it's said in the Law of Manu, "Learn the Law always adhered to by people who are erudite, virtuous, and free from love and hate, the Law assented to by the heart."

>> No.19174256

>>19173812
Try the Taoteching, it helped me at least

>> No.19174283

>>19174224
There is nothing to reject, if you can not prove it, you accept it because you don't know. Rejecting ideas is just passing judgement, when you pass judgement you just end up defending yourself. Listen to what they say, don't question their beliefs, just find something you know is true and ask more about it so you can understand them, this will reveal more truths you can ask about. You don't need to agree or disagree, when you find a truth just ask them to tell you more about it.

>> No.19174284

>>19174242
>completely annihilate the value of other people's mere opinions
How do you do that, when everyone presents an opinion that seems backed up by a sensible wider system (what you call nets)?
The smaller nets are easier to dismiss I've found, it's the large ideologies that I feel are harder to free yourself from, or to disregard entirely, because they're often very structurally consistent.
>the absolute lack of anger you will ever experience at the mere statements or views of others.
This is a good point since I often find myself irritated or bothered by some assertions.

>> No.19174295

>>19174256
Thanks
>>19174283
>just find something you know is true
Based on intuition?

>> No.19174301

>>19174295
Intuition is not truth, but it still has value. If you feel it might be true it is worth asking for more about it.

>> No.19174306

>>19174301
Right now I feel like nothing I've read about is true. Maybe I'm in a coping phase and need to wait a bit.

>> No.19174309

>>19174306
>Maybe I'm in a coping phase and need to wait a bit.
Nah, you just need to accept it and that you can not know most things. The truths you find when talking to people will not be about thing like God or politics, they will be simpler and they will be more honest and personal.

>> No.19174314

>>19174309
I believe this, I just need to fully accept it instead of continually doubting, letting myself be influenced and changing my mind

>> No.19174325

>>19174314
It is mostly just learning to accept the contradictions, which you can not prove or disprove any more than you can prove or disprove God vs Allah, so there is not really a contradiction. You just accept it as true because it is true to those that believe it and you can not prove them wrong even if you have faith in one or the other. It is truth for them so it is true, even if you do not believe it.

>> No.19174329

>>19173837
>/lit/ is your only form of discussion
You will never be able to leave while this is the case

>> No.19174334

>>19174329
Where else can I discuss interesting things? I also browse other boards, but for this kind of discussion, only /lit/ has a lot of intelligent posters.
>>19174325
Yes, acceptance. I need to work on this. To not neurotically cling to things all the time

>> No.19174540

>>19174036
Is a skeptic skeptical about their own skepticism?

>> No.19175368

>>19174540
Well?

>> No.19175389

>>19173810
>the people on this board call you an NPC if you don't larp
hylic

>> No.19175401

>>19175389
epic btfo my fellow guenonian zoomer

>> No.19175484

>>19175389
Like clockwork. Who's the actual NPC?

>> No.19175744

>>19174329
You're here forever

>> No.19175944

>>19173810
>I've filled my head with useless stuff and I just want to live simply now.
I feel exactly the same. I was obsessed with understanding the world for so long now. Now I don't want to take part in it anymore. I don't want to discuss with people anymore.
I just want to live a simple and quiet life with friends that can only talk about cars and football etc.

>> No.19175949

>>19173810
you should get drunk and lurk on /pol/ for some hours, that will cheer you up and make your thoughts relaxed

>> No.19175989

>>19175949
Why /pol/

>> No.19176062

It’s your life dude.
Not everyone wants or should be a scholar.
If you want to live a simple life go for it, far better than to have overambitious goals that you don’t have the willpower to follow through.

>> No.19176098

>>19176062
Isn't being a scholar the highest calling?

>> No.19176215

>>19173810
After reading almost all of this, and having zero ethos to speak on it, I think you oughta pursue intuition and do what you can to make the lives of the people around you better.

That’s the ultimate truth, you will never understand all of the world, and even if you did by some miracle; what then?

It’s what you do and how you apply the knowledge, I think, is where “beliefs” truly become beliefs. As the saying goes “talk is cheap”, so with all the understanding you have currently, and all that is to come, go forth and help others.

Sure it may feel taxing at times but frankly, it’s needed. We all need it, and the more people that do it the clearer, I think, the truth will become

Like I said earlier, I have no ethos for this stance, nor even much logos, and as far as I know I could be a deluded big man mideit, but I think this is an essential truth/important axiom to good & healthy living.

Idk if this helped or makes sense, but I wish you, and all, Anon, the very best on your journeys

>> No.19176224

>>19176215
*deluded bug man midwit

>> No.19176265

>>19176215
>pursue intuition
>and do what you can to make the lives of the people around you better.
Why is there inherent value in the latter? Not trying to spark a debate, I just want to know your reasoning. I'm not a particularly empathetic or altruistic person, so I wonder if this kind of take on life applies in all cases and if so, why.

>> No.19176329

>>19176265

I think of it kinda like living in a dump; if you live in trash you’re likely gonna act “trashy”.

you’re a product of your environment (more or less), so the more you do to enhance it the more it will enhance you

The intuition aspect may be a more personal thing to me specifically, however, I wasn’t always like this. I began to care more about things and not be disillusioned with “being correct and perfect all the time” because I realized it’s almost wasteful. That’s not to say you shouldn’t strive for the best, but just realize that’s it’s alright and expected that you fall short of perfection as were obviously imperfect

So be good to those around you and they’ll likely be good to you. Obviously not always, and ofc it’s not going to be easy every time, but I think there’s more benefit/likely good in finding truth (and meaning) in acting good than there is in just collecting knowledge for yourself and doing nothing with it

Lmk if that makes any sense to you

>> No.19176349

>>19174006
Every board on 4chan is like the loser table at a special needs school, if you were actually happy, you would never have become anxious by any of the mongoloid memes that get spouted here
4chan was cool before any of you were born, it's been braindead longer than you have been alive

>> No.19176858

>>19173810
>But the people on this board call you
Think about the words coming out of your keyboard right now.