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19167343 No.19167343 [Reply] [Original]

These are the greatest philosophers. Debate me.

>> No.19167347

>>19167343
Cormac McCarthy.

>> No.19167355

>>19167347
Not a philosopher, but a novelist.

>> No.19167362

>>19167343
the buddha

>> No.19167365

>no Avicenna

>> No.19167381

>>19167362
Eastern philosophers didn't affirm rationality and the affirmation of the individual, the ego, and the pride of individuality. They were mere collectivists concerned with expounding on religious texts. No originality, creativity or imagination.

>>19167365
Negligible contribution to the movement and dialectic of history. Side note, and mostly brought up for inclusivity reasons. Good, but not great.

In the main, philosophy started in Greece and developed in Europe in its most eminent form. There is no such thing as "eastern philosophy," only "eastern religion."

Mere expounding on religious teachings and texts.

>> No.19167418

>>19167343
these guys all look like shit

>> No.19167426

>>19167418
Do you mean "dead white men" or some shit. If yes, gtfo my thread.

>> No.19167428

>>19167426
no I mean they are all ugly

>> No.19167436

>>19167428
Good thing this thread is not about aesthetics but about intellect then

>> No.19167444

Can you please list the names of the philosophers in the photo?

>> No.19167448

>>19167381
>he doesn't know about Jena Romanticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Schlegel

>>19167343
It's a pretty good list. Although it lacks anyone from Persia/India Nietzsche as a philosopher through the influence of Deussen and Schopenhauer does encapsulate the strange admixture of classical Indo-Aryan thought and Medieval/Enlightenment European thought that formed into what we know as German Philosophy.

>> No.19167449
File: 312 KB, 1600x900, 1631649365232.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19167449

Define greatest. You couldn't have read all these, and most are in disagreement with one another, so why bother taking a position on how great they are to argue with strangers?

>> No.19167450

>>19167343
Nice list, but you missed Jackie Chan.

>> No.19167461

>>19167449
Is that supposed to be Augustine the Hippo or The Hippope?

>> No.19167470

>>19167461
The holy hippodrome himself

>> No.19167471

>>19167436
then I don't see why you're here

>> No.19167474

>>19167444
Yeah

Plato
Zeno
Heraclitus
Parmenides
Anaximander
Anaximenes
Thales
Seneca
Cicero
Aristotle
Marcus Aurelius
Rene Descartes
Leibniz
Baruch Spinoza
Diogenes (I forgot to include him)
Plotinus
Boethius
David Hume
George Berkeley
Blaise Pascal
Max Stirner
Boethius
Friedrich Nietzsche
Kierkegaard
Arthur Schopenhauer
Augustine of Hippo
Immanuel Kant
Thomas Aquinas
Johan Gottlieb Fichte
Voltaire
Schelling
Hegel
Machiavelli
John Locke

>> No.19167485

>>19167449
"Greatest" is having profound influence and impact not only philosophy as field but on humanity as a whole.

Don't tell you're one of those "it's all subjective bro" types.

>> No.19167496

>>19167448
German philosophy has nothing to do with Eastern or Indian philosophy. German philosophy developed independently and mostly from Europe.

>> No.19167507

>>19167496
>Schopenhauer kept the Upanishads by his bed side
>Sanskrit was part of the general curriculum of Higher Ed in 19th century Germany
>Nietzsche literally says that Greek, Indian, and German Philosophy is analogous
>First great European Sanskrit scholar, Friedrich Schlegel, was also a key member of a highly influential literary movement whose works are referenced in important German philosophical texts like Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction

>> No.19167523

>>19167474
>no Eriugena
trash list bro

>> No.19167525

>>19167507
Can you name a "romantic movement" equivalent in India?

The romantic movement was influenced highly by Kant's Critique of Judgment. His work on aesthetics not from Indian philosophy. If there is mention of Indian philosophy it is mostly negligible.

There is always a hidden motive in including eastern or indian philosophy in the western canon. It is either because people hate "dead white men" or because they want a more inclusive list of the western canon. My pic is roughly the western philosophical canon.

>> No.19167527

>>19167485
Imagine reading all those divergent philosophers and coming away with something other than the total destruction of subjects and objects. Did your favorites make the list and that's why you're so proud of having a thought in common?

>> No.19167534

>>19167527
I made that list.

Max Stirner and Friedrich Nietzsche explicitly affirm the ego and subject. So does Descartes in his cogito. The ego is affirmed, but always in relation to the transcendent or a transcendental condition, or to Nature as an esemplastic whole

>> No.19167539

>>19167525
>romantic movement in India
I don't even know what this would mean, but the very fact that you ignored the three other pieces of evidence in my post indicates a general desire to ignore such influences to codify a so-called "western canon".

>> No.19167545

>>19167534
You've got Spinoza in there so he's immanence and btfo's all the transcendence (platonist ripoff) philosophers.

>> No.19167553

>>19167525
>There is always a hidden motive in including eastern or indian philosophy in the western canon.
You do realize that half the people in the OP were working from either Greco-Egyptian or Jewish doctrines?

>> No.19167555

>>19167539
The western canon is generally recognized and affirmed to be from Socrates to Wittgenstein in philosophy and from Homer to Joyce in literature. There's also a western canon in painting.

It will be pretty hard to refute the western canon. I know Harold Bloom is dead, but his point still stands.

>> No.19167563

>>19167553
The western canon runs from Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian sources. Not so much Egyptian.

>> No.19167583

>>19167563
anon means Ptolemaic Greeks in Alexandria. Plus there was a lot of Egyptian influence on Greek Culture but that is its own rabbit hole and outside the scope of this thread.

>> No.19167588

>>19167583
Point taken

>> No.19167602

>>19167555
It's hard to refute because its cherry-picked. I'm not going to say "Avicenna" because you already rejected him, but its quite difficult to believe a people who had regular contact with Persian and Indian sources (the Greeks) weren't at all influenced by them. I can even find you the direct evidence if you want but such basic reasoning doesn't generally require it.

>> No.19167605

>>19167563
You can't bitch about purity then if you freely admit the canon is already a hodgepodge of divergent traditions reconciled by priests who waited out the collapse of the Roman empire
>>19167583
Plotinus was from Egypt, entire dialogs of Plato are attributed to Egyptian speakers e.g. Timaeus

>> No.19167613

>>19167355
Every great novelist is a philosopher, not all philosophers are novelists

>> No.19167616

>>19167555
This is false. How can cannon start with Socrates when the man didn´t even write something to be cannonized?!

No, western cannon begins with Plato and ends with Hegel.

>> No.19167620

I am partial to the following:
Jordan B. Peterson
Sargon of Akkad
Joe Rogan
Black Pigeon Speaks
E. Michael Jones
Tucker Carlson
Alex Jones
Ben Shapiro
Styxhammer666
Milo Y.
Dave Rubin
Mike Cernovich
Paul Joseph Watson
President Donald J. Trump

>> No.19167624

>>19167616
Plato based most of his writings off of Socrates. Diogenes of Sinope also didn't really write works, but he's also included in the canon generally. You can still have an influence in the canon by spirit just like Jesus had on the bible. Jesus didn't write the bible, the bible was written about him from the apostolic perspective.

>> No.19167628

>>19167616
>actually it ends with Judith Butler.
Ok honestly she's not dead yet so who knows, but just like Hegel there are many large flaws but its impossible to open up to any random page of her work and not immediately recognize brilliance.

>> No.19167631

>>19167628
>Judith Butler
Literally who?

>> No.19167632

>>19167613
Well I see McCarthy is still disqualified then.

>> No.19167634

>>19167631
see

I think a lot of her fame probably had to do with the politics of the academy.

>> No.19167635

>>19167632
Harold Bloom actually regarded his work as great. But it takes time to develop the canon. I think it will include him in the literary tradition but not in the philosophical one.

>> No.19167673

>>19167525
Cannot see how the romantic movement has to have an equivalent in india for the indic influences on philosophy to be valid. You just sound like you are more afraid of political correctness than you are thirsty for truth.

>> No.19167680

>>19167673
Because I read the works. There's basically a negligible influence. And I think political correctness has done too much damage.

I recommend thinkers like Roger Scruton and Harold Bloom as good thinkers in the contemporary era. Also Jordan Peterson unironically.

I would also recommend a doc called "Why Beauty Matters" to see how much damage postmodernism has done in academia and in life in general.

>> No.19167688

>>19167624
Okay sure I can see that. Im talking abouth the philosophical project. If we are talking philosophy as a whole and not the specifical philosophical project why start with Socrates and not like Anaximander or Herakliton et al?

>> No.19167695

>>19167620
Its fucking hilarious that molyneux fell so hard that hes not even on this joke list of washed up memes.

>> No.19167701
File: 1.82 MB, 2141x3040, _FAUST._II.THEIL”.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19167701

OP here. To make a side point about post-modernism. I think eventually it will be gobbled up by the Faustian spirit of Europe in historical dialectic and be extirpated from academia. Greatness will win out. Post-modernism is a dark period in our secular and nihilistic age but the passion of the western mind will move from the horrible trash archetype of post-modernism and recover in its further emergent and transcendent form.

>> No.19167706

>>19167624
Yeah I don't like that argument but if Pythagoras is included in the western Canon then it must be noted that he is historically the first person to go to Indian and have a "spiritual experience" then come back and start a new-age religion.
>>19167680
You still haven't responded to my other 3 critiques. I'm not arguing against with your assertions because of "political correctness", I'm arguing against them because they're fucking stupid and not unsubstantiated by evidence. Have you actually studied Greek? Are you aware of how similar it is to Persian and Sanskrit? Did you know they were often intermixed in the classical era?

>> No.19167708

>>19167688
I would also include the presocratics from there like I said in my OP. But you're right.

>> No.19167727

>>19167471
Got 'em

>> No.19167728

>>19167706
Because you're talking about linguistic etymology mostly and it's besides the point when discussing a chronological Western canon

What are you arguing? that linguistically they are similar and thus had an influence on the canon?

or are you arguing that Schoppy kept an Indian text next to his bed and thus derives most of his philosophy from India?

I am trying to downgrade the importance you place of Indian philosophy or Sanskrit on Western philosophy and the canon as a whole.

>> No.19167733

>>19167620
Election tourist chandala

>> No.19167735

>>19167343
>These are the greatest philosophers. Debate me.
Looks more like an impression to consciousness that is apprehended as if it is an image on a screen whose contexts indicates that it be read as a .jpeg file served by an Indonesia fish sauce fucking correspondence group.

Pictured are works of art faithlessly representing images of dead people.

They don't seem to consciousness to be the greatest philosophers, but rather a jpeg file.

>> No.19167742

>>19167735
I laughed after reading the post. Then I thought about it later and realized how stupid your post is.

>> No.19167744

>>19167343
>Le Roman lawyer man
>Le Roman Emperor
>Le priest
>Le 2010 portrait of Stirner
>No Epicurus

>> No.19167750

>>19167744
fug
I also forgot to include Lucretius

>> No.19167760

>>19167706
>historically the first person to go to Indian and have a "spiritual experience" then come back and start a new-age religion.
This is not exactly a historical fact. That he studied with Egyptians is almost a certainty but that he went to India? It is first claimed by some random guy in the 3rd century AD.

>> No.19167767
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19167767

OP here.

"Indian metaphysics"

>Poo in the loo metaphysics

>> No.19167859

>>19167343
How would you know if you haven't read the orientals?

>> No.19167943

>>19167343
Ignore all pseudo-intellectual rhetoricians.

>> No.19168020

>>19167381
>Eastern philosophers didn't affirm rationality and the affirmation of the individual, the ego, and the pride of individuality.

Because they surpassed it.

>> No.19169069

>>19167728
I know but Schopenhauer is so clearly influenced by Indian philosophy to ignore it is silly. And to Ignore Friedrich von Schlegel, and to ignore Nietzsche referencing the Vedanta multiple times in his work, and to ignore the philosophical and linguistic analogies...

>> No.19169132

>>19167343
>Voltaire

>> No.19169137

>>19167474
>no Husserl

>> No.19169140

>>19167343
>no Deleuze or Heidegger
Have you not reached the 20th century guys yet or?

>> No.19169176

>>19167343
>no Zhuang Zhou
What is actually wrong with you

>> No.19169239

>>19167381
Avicenna, together with Boethius, are essentially the reason Aristotle turned out so influential in the first place.
His medical-philosophical examinations, his critical commentaries of Aristotle, and the problems that arose from that laid the groundwork for most of the western scholastic tradition,
More concretely, im fairly certain his floating man argument inspired Aquinas who in turn inspired Descartes' cogito. its essentially the seed for the modern philosophical turn towards the subject.

weird insistence on the isolated and privileged nature of 'western philosophy', while also insisting on excluding the arab world, who were just as much carriers of that tradition as were the medieval europeans, maybe even more so.
you wouldnt happen to hold any funky racial ideas about 'western philosophy' do you?

>> No.19169475

>>19167620
does e Michael jones have no literary value? never read his stuff, just remember him being based in any interview I've seen with him...