How do you know if you are a Materialist or an Idealist?

[Anonymous No.19148365]

I don't want to be a materialist because it inevitably leads to nihilism and death. Materialism is synonymous with science worshiping bug people. Who do I read to stay in the ideal realm? Just stick with Plato and Kant? Who do I read to BTFO filthy bureaucratic materialists?

[Anonymous No.19148383]

Yo hold up, is this nigga saying the things im looking at aint really there??
> Kant’s transcendental idealism was a modest philosophical doctrine about the difference between appearances and things in themselves, which claimed that the objects of human cognition are appearances and not things in themselves.

[Anonymous No.19148391]

Materialists were right. You're just coping.

[Anonymous No.19148411]

>>19148365
Idealism is when you believe in magic. Materialism is when you believe in science.

[Anonymous No.19148456]

all materialists are nihilists, change my mind.

[Anonymous No.19148538]

>>19148365
Idealism is believing in dinosaurs. Materialism is believing in what you can see.

[Anonymous No.19148551]

>>19148365
>don't want to be a materialist because it inevitably leads to nihilism and death. Materialism is synonymous with science worshiping bug people.
You seem more interested in pop identity politics than any actual philosophical thinking, so why even bother?

[Anonymous No.19148560]

>>19148365
If not a metaphysical Idealist, then relinquish the ability for man to judge metaphysically, and become a spiritual Idealist.

Kant, Fichte, Schelling and Hegel were all great psychologists. Strauss, Feuerbach, Marx and Engels were not.

[Anonymous No.19148585]

>>19148551
>emotion has nothing to do with reason
>the emotion of not wanting to believe in the meaningless of the world has nothing to do with reason
Marxism as a complete worldview is a sham, no one could justify life by a "philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Whereby all common sense is thrown up in the air, and it is better to do something than nothing.

[Anonymous No.19148608]

>>19148365
>Plato and Kant
Don't forget about Schopenhauer

[Anonymous No.19148616]

>>19148365
Reading a post like this is just so sad.
I'm sad people like you get to vote and have human rights.

[Anonymous No.19148623]

>>19148560
You know what, being a materialist seems easier. Maybe I'll go down that road. I do like stoicism a lot. But, I also want to go to heaven. How do these people even decide what they are? I have no idea. Keine Anung. Fuck man, I'm freaking out a little bit.

[Anonymous No.19148638]

>>19148608
You could argue he is not an idealist. I just read an article on German idealism and they said this
>Schopenhauer had studied with Schulze in Göttingen and attended Fichte’s lectures in Berlin, but he is not considered a German idealist by many historians of philosophy. Some, like Günter Zöller, have argued against this exclusion, suggesting that the first edition of The World as Will and Representation is, in fact, “the first completely execute post-Kantian philosophical system” (Ameriks 2000, 101). Whether or not this system is really idealist is, however, a matter of some dispute. Claims that Schopenhauer is not an idealist usually take as their starting point the second part of The World as Will and Representation, where Schopenhauer claims that the representations of the “pure subject of cognition” are grounded in the will and, ultimately, in the body.

[Anonymous No.19148646]

>>19148365
Read Plato, Plotinus, Berkeley. Don't read German autism, they weren't really idealists anyway.

[Anonymous No.19148671]

>>19148585
You don't seem to have engaged with marxism outside reactionary memes

[Anonymous No.19148677]

>>19148585
Brainlet

[Anonymous No.19148682]

>>19148638
>are grounded in the will and, ultimately, in the body.
Lmao wikipedia articles writted by literal retards

[v_v !!+e0M0fBMYzt No.19148683]

>>19148365
don't a lot of european technocrats love hegel? lol

[Anonymous No.19148699]

>>19148671
>>19148677
Lack of arguments expose you for just what you're doing: seething.

[v_v !!+e0M0fBMYzt No.19148704]

>>19148683
also i'd say kant is irrelevant but i don't hold reactionaries to any standard so go wild ig

[Anonymous No.19148780]

>>19148383
>These things are the same
Based rambler

[Anonymous No.19148785]

>>19148608
>>19148638
I've always wondered about this. Schopy regards the mind itself as subordinate to the Will, a product of its manifestation in the phenomenal world. It really doesn't seem like he's an idealist. except in the sense that Kant was.

[Anonymous No.19148787]

>>19148638
That's fine. But he was definitively not a materialist:

"The fundamental absurdity of materialism is that it starts from the objective, and takes as the ultimate ground of explanation something objective, whether it be matter in the abstract, simply as it is thought, or after it has taken form, is empirically given—that is to say, is substance, the chemical element with its primary relations. Some such thing it takes, as existing absolutely and in itself, in order that it may evolve organic nature and finally the knowing subject from it, and explain them adequately by means of it; whereas in truth all that is objective is already determined as such in manifold ways by the knowing subject through its forms of knowing, and presupposes them; and consequently it entirely disappears if we think the subject away. Thus materialism is the attempt to explain what is immediately given us by what is given us indirectly. All that is objective, extended, active—that is to say, all that is material—is regarded by materialism as affording so solid a basis for its explanation, that a reduction of everything to this can leave nothing to be desired (especially if in ultimate analysis this reduction should resolve itself into action and reaction)."

[Anonymous No.19148851]

>>19148787
Man, Im going to need to reread this a few times. I am inebriated.

[Anonymous No.19148885]

>>19148365
Materalistic and Idealistic philosophers just different shades of sophists. Philosophy is largely a joke, and people take it too seriously because they are vested in personality cults.

[Anonymous No.19149303]

>>19148365
idealism is when you do not take the meds materialism is when you take the meds

[Anonymous No.19149309]

idealism was debunked

[Anonymous No.19149397]

>>19148623
>How do these people even decide what they are?
they don't 'decide', they have a will for truth and dig deep

[Anonymous No.19150170]

>>19148365
Stop coping and finally embrace materialism

[Anonymous No.19150399]

>>19148638
Schopenhauer is 100% a idealist under almost every meaningful definition of this term.
Also regarding that excerpt, bodies are not an ultimate ground of anything. Bodies are still in space, time, and causal relations, and as such are only finite manifestations of the Will.

[Anonymous No.19150410]

unless you're a published philosopher you are not a materialist or an idealist or any shit like that. you're just a random fag with opinions.

[Anonymous No.19150845]

>>19148699
You posted nothing that would deserve an argument

[Anonymous No.19150850]

>>19148785
>It really doesn't seem like he's an idealist
Except the parts where the mind is able to break through the physical world and experience pure ideas and will.

[Anonymous No.19150917]

>>19148365
In the common usage when dealing with the philosophers in your pic, materialism subscribes to the notion that things come about because of existing material conditions. Idealism is the subscription that ideas shape the universe.

When dealing with humans, idealism clearly has a more solid foundation to stand on.

[Anonymous No.19150955]

>>19148885
>people take it too seriously because they are vested in personality cults.
Isn't this like 90% of humanity? Everything is a cult, everyone apart of some cult. You can't escape philsophy, no matter how hard you try. Cope and seeth

[Anonymous No.19150961]

>>19148456
youre right and an honest materialist/atheist should say the same.

t. materialist and nihilist

[Anonymous No.19150978]

>>19150955
>You can't escape philsophy, no matter how hard you try.
What if I don't try and just stop caring?
Honestly after all the /lit/ copes I'm starting to think I should just maximize pleasure, minimize suffering, and stop caring about the rest.

[Anonymous No.19151155]

>>19148885
Seeth more

[Anonymous No.19151349]

>>19148365
The world is a construct of your consciousness. Without you, there is no world.
That's not to say materialism/science is wrong, but rather it's a tool to measure the world consciousness has created, and like all tools it's application is relative to the subject.

I am also pretty sure that quantum physics has already disproved materialism, as it is observation which creates reality.

Tl;dr the world is imagination, but your imagination is real.

[Anonymous No.19151366]

>>19148456
Only when it comes to morals, not when it comes to consequential relationships in the physical world.

[Anonymous No.19151376]

>>19150955
>Think everyone is in a cult because you're in one for medicore humanities majors
Take your meds.

[Anonymous No.19151389]

>>19148365
Do you jack it to cartoons?

[Anonymous No.19151418]

>>19151349
Another thing I would like to add is that we, as living organisms are limited in how we experience the universe, time as we know it only makes sense from our perspective, but there may very well be other ways to perceive the universe which is limited by the 5 senses we have.

Idealism isn't about "magic" it's about perception, and developing a framework of understanding without making apriori assumptions. Materialism in fact, is not even logical in that it posits the existence of the the universe as we experience it apriori, when it is clearly our consciousness which first creates the universe in the way we experience it.

You logically cannot build an epistemology through materialism. Let alone make moral judgements.

[Anonymous No.19151478]

>>19151389
Yes why

[Anonymous No.19151496]

>>19151478
Well there's your answer.

[Anonymous No.19151501]

>>19151496
To what

[Anonymous No.19151509]

>>19151501
to the question of whether you are a materialist or an idealist.

[Anonymous No.19151532]

>>19151509
idealist then?

[Anonymous No.19152308]

>>19151349
I wish I knew more about quantum theory so I could btfo of materialists.

[Anonymous No.19152313]

>>19151418
ok, ok I'm with you, keep going. How would a materialist respond to that?

[Anonymous No.19152314]

>>19152308
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1YqgPAtzho

[Anonymous No.19152348]

>>19148365
Questions is:
Have you got the balllls, sir?

[Anonymous No.19152351]

>>19152314
c'mon man don't condescend me.

[Anonymous No.19152355]

>>19148383
We know this from physics. There are no things, only quarks. The human brain is just a weirdly shaped object that filters certain quark patterns and rejects others. The signal then becomes our experiential reality and the noise is oblivion. The center of the universe really is you.

[Anonymous No.19152359]

>>19148365
just worship money lmao

[Anonymous No.19152360]

>>19152351
watch it stupid
or read the wikipedia article
or an academic paper

same shit

[Anonymous No.19152365]

>>19152355
and what does LSD do? you see different quark patterns through it?

[Anonymous No.19152370]

Materialism is an an idealism. I think there's a Bataille (pbuh) essay about this

[Anonymous No.19152371]

>>19152359
the great irony is that the end goal of marxist materialism is creating a world without money

[Anonymous No.19152379]

>>19152371
Yeah, a lot of religions tend to have a lot of stupid end goals that never work out.

[Anonymous No.19152391]

>>19152360
i know about the fucking slit test and so does every middle school kid in america

[Anonymous No.19152399]

>>19152355
this is unnerving

[Anonymous No.19152425]

>>19152365
Signal processing in the brain is an electrochemical process you can disrupt it with chemicals or electrical shocks. LSD and all drugs in the simplest and most basic sense cause parts of the brain to fire electrical signals and bind different chemicals which alter how you normally experience your sensory inputs and what you think about. This is what causes you to trip, see, hear, feels things you don’t normally.

The LSD world is just as real as the non LSD world. However your brain didn’t evolve to have regular LSD-like experiences during your awake moments, during sleep something similar happens with dreams, probably because going into psychedelic trips while you’re awake reduces your chances of survival/reproduction in the environment we evolved in.

[Anonymous No.19152436]

>>19152425
Why you so smart did you go to college?

[Anonymous No.19152437]

>>19148391
post beard

[Anonymous No.19152439]

>>19152425
thank you
i should read up more on acid, I only ever read hoffman's book.

i owe my life to that drug. it's one of the things that keeps me sane in this crazy world.

[Anonymous No.19152457]

>>19152439
Ever tried shrooms?

[Anonymous No.19152483]

>>19148365
Science and materialism don’t have much in common actually. Measuring stuff in the world and accumulating, hoarding wealth have no common ground. I know science here doesn’t fly on 4chan because muh vax and fedoras and whatnot it’s just people observing and measuring shit. Science also is incapable of disproving the existence of God (whichever one you may choose to believe in) so you don’t really have to get buttmad about that either.

[Anonymous No.19152485]

>>19152457
nope but I will, in time. within this year most likely. I always bought online and obviously the former is much more discrete to ship.

i'll probably teach myself to make DMT, and smoke that. I reckon i'll be 'introduced' to some very familiar things. i read in a quora post people who believe in an 'idealistic monism' have a pretty intense experience on it. I frighten easily.

[Anonymous No.19152487]

>>19152399
What unnerves me is that what we know about quarks is extremely accurate but it’s limited. In particle accelerators they can measure, charge, spin, momentum and differentiate these particles and they all fit perfectly in the theoretical model and the model accurately makes predictions. At the end of the day what defines these entities are either a set of numbers that describes their properties or an equation that describes the quantum field associated with each particle and the probability that particle will be somewhere in that field.

So at the most fundamental level we have some maths. Numbers. Our deepest understanding of reality is unsatisfying it seems. What is this place we exist in? Is it a place? Is it a time in a place? Nothing really makes senses except the math which follows some strict logic rules. This has led some to simply assert we live in a “mathematical universe” because really math is the best “eyes” we have and what they see is quarks.

It’s hard to return to a human centric view and be happy about it but I think it’s possible. I just try to remember that I am a brain, I am a person. I am a nexus of interesting and rare particle interactions in what’s a mostly empty universe. That seems to give me just enough warmth to survive.

[Anonymous No.19152489]

>>19152485
>idealistic monism
Like all is one, that kind of stuff?
I want to try DMT because of the "realer than real" feeling but I haven't even tried LSD or shrooms yet so I'm taking it slow. LSD is hard to get your hands on though, I'm not that good with darknet stuff.

[Anonymous No.19152501]

>>19152489
Start with shrooms then go acid and then DMT. You can also try deadly nightshades like brugmansia if you’re not a pussy. That shit is also as “real” as it gets.

[Anonymous No.19152505]

>>19148365
>How do you know if you are a Materialist or an Idealist
You stop eating and see whether you live or die
You pray for your angels or your "god" to actually do anything that matters to your life at all
And then you find out that there are no idealists
Mongs

[Anonymous No.19152510]

>>19152505
>asceticism doesn't actually exist!

[Anonymous No.19152519]

>>19152501
Is acid a necessary step?
And yeah I'd rather not fuck with literal poison like nightshade or datura or whatever

[Anonymous No.19152523]

>>19152510
>Ascetics really don't die they fly around on mental clouds, bro
Like I said, you're only jacking yourself

>>19152489
>>19152501
>Just do drugs dude, they'll definitely show you truth and not just fuck up your actual brain!!!

[Anonymous No.19152526]

>>19152489
>Like all is one, that kind of stuff?
yes essentially. i have some other "mystical" beliefs which are not based off any empirical evidence but in a nutshell I'm pretty sure 'god' or 'spirit' comes onto this world to experience the lives of living organisms to learn lessons or things of that sort.

anyway they are some facts of life I have trouble coping with, like cartels skinning people alive. i feel responsible for that, or really anything horrible and it haunts me when I remember. I haven't killed a bug in years

[Anonymous No.19152528]

>>19152523
>the quest for absolute truth
Doing drugs is about about finding any truth you fucking normie. It’s about insight to different perspectives.

[Anonymous No.19152529]

>>19152505
>>19152523
retard

[Anonymous No.19152531]

>>19152523
>you're only jacking yourself
Even if that were completely true, what does it matter?

[Anonymous No.19152536]

>>19152528
Doing drugs is just a symptom of not being able to cope, like
>>19152526
>anyway they are some facts of life I have trouble coping with, like cartels skinning people alive. i feel responsible for that, or really anything horrible and it haunts me when I remember. I haven't killed a bug in years

and of course you need the >normie because your frail ego can't deal with others having different perspectives, and that's the real reason you spend your time jacking off to fantasies

[Anonymous No.19152537]

>>19152487
im gonna fucking throw up man

[Anonymous No.19152542]

>>19152531
It's pathetic

[Anonymous No.19152547]

>>19152526
>god' or 'spirit' comes onto this world to experience the lives of living organisms to learn lessons

That is exactly why the cartel skinning shit happens the same as cute puppies in a field. The cartel is also god and the people they skin is the same stuff as the ones doing the skinning. God experiences it all. To what end? It’s not our task to know this. In short we are all doing gods work.

[Anonymous No.19152549]

>>19152542
not an answer to the question

[Anonymous No.19152552]

>>19152526
Don't you think nondualism makes more sense than "naive" monism?
>cartels
I mean there aren't many answers to this. You either go full dualism or you reject the notions of good and evil.

[Anonymous No.19152558]

>>19152536
>your frail ego can't deal with others having different perspectives,
>literally insults someone for having a different perspective
You saw that coming didn’t you

[Anonymous No.19152565]

>>19152549
It is. Pathetic is a value judgment, it means you are worthless, you could do something that mattered in regards to reality as best you can know it. If you don't know something, pretending you do, makes everything you do, say, think, everything a lie. And it makes you a liar and a fraud.
Believing is not good enough, it is just a copout.

[Anonymous No.19152568]

>>19152536
>and of course you need the >normie because your frail ego can't deal with others having different perspectives, and that's the real reason you spend your time jacking off to fantasies
what are you even saying?

mind you hallucinogens are not "cope" because they quite literally put you into the shit, those drugs are the opposite of cope.

>>19152547
it's horrible

>>19152552
>you reject the notions of good and evil.
ah but i have. obviously this doesn't mean i reject morality.

[Anonymous No.19152571]

>>19152487
Have you read Talbot's Holographic Universe?

[Anonymous No.19152573]

>>19148411
>Materialism is when you believe in science.
Which is not a good thing, since you basically turn into cattle.
There is a reason most actual scientists are idealist.

[Anonymous No.19152579]

>>19152573
Source?
Panpsychism is the only thing that makes sense aside from physicalism

[Anonymous No.19152580]

>>19148365
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that materialism/physicalism is correct.
Consciousness is then a non-local phenomenon created by a great number of 'objects'. Now, which of these objects contribute to form a certain consciousness, and which ones do not? It appears that it is based on physical location, but if the consciousness is linked to a location, then there is a consciousness for every location determined by the configuration of atoms near it. It follows from this that there would be a nigh-infinite number of consciousnesses in the area that is held to constitute your brain.

[Anonymous No.19152582]

>>19148365

Idealists believe in certain imperceptible principle which guide reality. For example Plato who postulates that the real world is the one of Forms (or ideas) which cannot be perceived, but it can be thought of (with the intellect). Or Hegel Geist which in the same way is a principle that gives sense to everything that exists, gives it a purpose, but it's a principle which cannot be perceived. Being a christian and believing God created the word means idealism too because you posit that the existence of reality is dependenant upon something which can only be though of in terms of rational thought (like deductive / inductive type of thinking or through association, etc), basically only with the help of the mind.

Materialism on the other hand is the belief that all reality is material and thus can be known in this sense. Radical materialism could even take the form of believing the mind is material. In this sense, if you believe that consciousness is only an organic by-product of our constitution as humans, that's a materliastic view because it reduces something abstract as "consciousness" to material causes. Being a materialist means reducing everything to material causes.

[Anonymous No.19152584]

>>19152579
Panpsychism makes no sense, because the combination problem is obviously fatal.

[Anonymous No.19152589]

>>19152568
>mind you hallucinogens are not "cope"
Of course they are. People watch movies and cry their hearts out. Doesn't make them real. And you are telling yourself that hallucinogens show you a deeper reality with no actual understanding of what they do to you or how.

[Anonymous No.19152598]

>>19152565
Ok then name the thing that isn't a pathetic attempt at coping.

[Anonymous No.19152602]

>>19152598
Saying you don't know when you don't know
Simple isn't it?

[Anonymous No.19152610]

>>19152602
Do you truly know that I exist outside of your perception of reality?

[Anonymous No.19152611]

>>19152589
your post is nonsense. movies are 'real'. and whether what you see while tripping is real or not, my point is that it's not cope. drinking is cope. hallucinogens take everything you have in your mind and lay it out in front of you. it's not the same at all.

you are clearly just talking out of your arse

[Anonymous No.19152642]

>>19152610
On the nuts scale think you don't would be higher than thinking you do, so let's assume you do
>>19152611
>movies are 'real
They are manufactured manipulations of your senses and your emotions. They are one of the most unreal things you can encounter. See, this is what it's like talking to stoners.

[Anonymous No.19152647]

>>19152584
Elaborate

[Anonymous No.19152651]

>>19152602
Nobody claimed to know anything when talking about the use of drugs anon. It however broadens your experience of life like every other thing you try or do. You might as well stay in your room and stare at the wall because even if you went out or read a book or talked to someone you just can’t know what absolute truth is. Your reasoning is juvenile and embarrassing

[Anonymous No.19152663]

>>19152651
I was answering a specific question
>even if you went out or read a book or talked to someone you just can’t know what absolute truth is
That is the whole point. You cannot know. Telling yourself that you DO because DONE DRUUUGS is a massive cope and it makes you a retard

[Anonymous No.19152669]

>>19152642
>on the nuts scale
lmao imagine crafting your beliefs solely on how likely it is that you'll be perceived as insane

[Anonymous No.19152672]

>>19152647
I'm assuming your talking about the 'electrons are conscious' sort of panpsychism. Then it is unclear how such consciousnesses could combine to form a consciousness like that of a human. Such a consciousness would also have no causal power (unless we're disregarding material laws, which one can do, but generally the motivation of panpsychism is to dodge the Hard Problem and keep the rest), so it turns out that panpsychism just collapses into epiphenomenalism with an added 'atoms are conscious' spiel tacked on.

[Anonymous No.19152677]

>>19152669
>Not understanding what banter is

[Anonymous No.19152681]

>>19152663
>Telling yourself that you DO because DONE DRUUUGS is a massive cope and it makes you a retard
Nobody mentioned that you big baby. But you saw the word shrooms and had to have a kneejerk response and spill out all this spaghetti. Take a 20 minute break from whatever it is your browsing 4chan with.

[Anonymous No.19152690]

>>19152677
>implying
solipsism is a good deal of fun

[Anonymous No.19152698]

>>19152681
>Nobody mentioned that
So there wasn't any reason at all for the nothing but personal insult-response, hey?

[Anonymous No.19152706]

>>19152642
>They are manufactured manipulations of your senses and your emotions. They are one of the most unreal things you can encounter
no they are EXPRESSIONS of sense and emotions. just the same way photographs are real and paintings an expression of what exists in the imagination. they are REAL, and very real.

you are just a spiritually devoid anglo.

[Anonymous No.19152716]

>>19152706
>you are just a spiritually devoid anglo
kek
Just go back to your movies and your drugs, if you can't even cope with some offhand derisive shitposting you need all the help you can get

[Anonymous No.19152720]

>>19152698
What personal insult? Are you a girl or a faggot? (This is a personal insult)

[Anonymous No.19152721]

>>19152672
No I'm talking about "everything is mind" as opposed to "everything is matter"

[Anonymous No.19152732]

>>19152716
>i WaS jUsT sHiTpOsTiNg
retard

[Anonymous No.19152745]

>>19152720
It's funny how you always pretend to some spiritual high ground and immediately shit yourself in a flood of ad hominems as soon as anyone doubts your personal fantasies
>>19152732
I'm not the one needing bullshit fantasies to cope

[Anonymous No.19152761]

>>19152745
>I'm just shitposting heh
>atleast I unironically don't cope like you do
Behold! The 21st century schizoid man

[Anonymous No.19152762]

>>19152732
>alternating capitals
twitter tourist

[Anonymous No.19152771]

>>19152762
>my internet lingo requires segregation
:(((

[Anonymous No.19152773]

>>19152761
See, name-calling, that's all you got
Why don't you enlighten us all about the spiritual insights you got from your movies and your drugs?

[Anonymous No.19152779]

>>19152773
I'm not that anon, I just know hypocrisy when I see it

[Anonymous No.19152794]

>>19152762
4chan is the only social media I use, and the 'alternating capitals' have been used for longer than you've been alive

[Anonymous No.19152797]

>>19152779
>I'm not that anon
>I just know hypocrisy when I see it
>(you)

[Anonymous No.19152803]

>>19152797
point out the post where I talked about movies and drugs please

[Anonymous No.19152815]

>>19152803
I pointed out the name-calling one already, I was just being generous. But of you have nothing to contribute, at all
Silly me

[Anonymous No.19152818]

>>19152815
I contributed the observation that you are afflicted by modern materialist tendencies

[Anonymous No.19152822]

>>19152721
That’s typically referred to as Idealism, of which there are a great many variants.

[Anonymous No.19152824]

>>19152815
although admittedly yours is not a purely modern condition, as hypocrisy is found in all ages

[Anonymous No.19152830]

>>19152822
Which is the most likely considering the current advances in science?

[Anonymous No.19152835]

>>19152818
I have explained my position already, if you don't know something, don't say you do
It is not a modern claim

[Anonymous No.19152840]

>>19152835
you don't know anything, and you know you don't, or do you?

[Anonymous No.19152844]

what are you retards even arguing about? shut up it's pathetic.

[Anonymous No.19152847]

>>19152803
>>19152815
>>19152818
>>19152822
>>19152824
>>19152830
>>19152835
>>19152840
go read a fucking book jesus christ

[Anonymous No.19152857]

>>19152847
which one

[Anonymous No.19152860]

>>19152844
>>19152847
Start with the Greek and get a clue

[Anonymous No.19152867]

>>19152857
call of the crocodile

[Anonymous No.19152880]

you sound like you're more concerned with chasing the nebulous idea of the capital-T Truth and claiming you're pondering the mysteries of the universe as a way to avoid going outside and actually experiencing something

[Anonymous No.19152912]

>all of these shit throwing and dick waving competitions even after 6000 years of speculation about the nature of reality
Fuck everything, just nuke this shithole of a planet already

[Anonymous No.19152923]

>>19152912
we've done pretty well for being shithole dwellers

[Anonymous No.19152929]

>>19152912
>I'm just gonna think about this realllllll hard until I get it
So take the clue and realize you were doing it wrong all along, there's no need to throw a fit about it

[Anonymous No.19152931]

>>19148683
Why would this have any effect on the content of his philosophy being Idealist or Materialist you retarded tripfag.

[Anonymous No.19152952]

>>19148391
There have NEVER been people to inhabit earth that were more deluded and wrong about everything than materialists.

[Anonymous No.19153417]

>>19152355
>The center of the universe really is you.
Goddammit, Kant was right all along

[Anonymous No.19153442]

>>19148365
>I don't care what's actually true, I just care what gets me the outcome I want
You're already a materialist realist.

[Anonymous No.19153528]

>>19148383
>Yo hold up, is this nigga saying the things im looking at aint really there??
Filtered

Next you gonna say that chairs really exist outside of the human mind and would continue to exist even if all humans died

[Anonymous No.19153542]

>>19148365
Simplest way to figure out for yourself

Would a chairs exist if all humans died out
If you answered yes than youre a materialist, you see a chair as a material being having the form of a chair that is inherit to it

If you asnwered no, youre an antirealist or idealist
You realise that a stump in a forest can become a chair when you decide to sit on it, and that a chair only exists on an intentional level, you recognising it as a chair by its intantion of sitting on it like a chair

[Anonymous No.19153547]

>>19151349
Why did you post Gentile if this is just Husserls phil

[Anonymous No.19153548]

>>19153442
>You're already a materialist realist
Everyone is. Some people just lie about it

[Anonymous No.19153550]

>>19153542
I think that without a consciousness to perceive the chair then the chair just doesn't exist
what is that called, inb4 retardation or a synonym

[Anonymous No.19153579]

>>19153550
Depends what you mean by chair
If you think that a material world would still exist without a consciousness and that chairs would be just clumps of atoms, than its just regular antirealism

If you think that there would be no sensable reality, like Berkley described, that there is no reality outside the potentialy sensable smell, visual reflection, touch etc, than youre a immaterialis

If you think that things would just be gone, as if nothing would exist at all, that the simulation turns off etc, than its solipsism or strong scepticism

[Anonymous No.19153620]

>>19153547
i never read husserl, this is what i got from gentile, he too deals with phenomenology. gentile goes further than husserl and essentially places the responsibility of the state on to the subject

[Anonymous No.19153633]

>>19153579
I just think there's no such thing as "reality" if there is no consciousness to perceive it. It doesn't matter what would happen to reality if no minds were there because without a mind, there is no reality. Reality depends on a mind to perceive it.

[Anonymous No.19153637]

>>19153620
>and essentially places the responsibility of the state on to the subject
So he developed a phenomenological philosophy of politics? Seems interesting, in what book did he write about it, is it the Theory of the Pure Act?

[Anonymous No.19153685]

>>19153633
>I just think
This is the problem with post-Boomer babies
It doesn't matter what you think. You can even formulate it, much less think of arguments, or ways of how you can know whether it's a true or sensible position. You have everything turned upside down

[Anonymous No.19153700]

>>19153685
I don't care what you think lol

[Anonymous No.19153803]

>>19152487
>it's another "naturalist bugman" episode
yawn

[Anonymous No.19153807]

>>19148646
>Read Plato, Plotinus, Berkeley
All of them are refuted by science

[Anonymous No.19153835]

>>19153807
Can you explain how?
I want to believe in physicalism but it just seems obvious to me there's "something" else. I don't know what, but it's not all just randomness and matter

[Anonymous No.19153846]

>>19153835
>but it just seems so obvious to me
sorry anon, you're going to need better arguments than "i just feel it's not correct, bro"

[Anonymous No.19153856]

>>19153846
Hard problem

[Anonymous No.19153858]

>>19153856
fair enough

[Anonymous No.19154231]

>>19153807
How could they possibly be refuted by science? Remember that the dualism posited by Plato and Plotinus was never Cartesian, the body was supervened on the soul.

[Anonymous No.19154604]

>>19148365
>I don't want to be a materialist because it inevitably leads to nihilism and death.
The material world begets qualia, and thus is itself the origin of most things religions have concerned themselves with. That said, I don't see how idealism refutes nihilism.

[Anonymous No.19154616]

People who believe in materialism don't even wholly follow it. Go ahead and posit experience to them.

[Anonymous No.19154625]

>>19153417
How is that Kant?

[Anonymous No.19154652]

>>19154616
this is the most brainlet post on /lit/ currently

[Anonymous No.19154663]

>>19154652
have you seen the thread above it??

[Anonymous No.19154733]

>>19154663
I use bump order on /lit/ you pleb

[Anonymous No.19154875]

>>19148365
>creates the perfect synthesis between German Idealism and Materialism with the neckbeard

[Anonymous No.19154891]

>>19154875
damn wtf was he thinking with that neck strap? that's embarrassing

[Anonymous No.19155332]

Wow this is the worst thread I’ve ever seen!

>implying materialism mandates nihilism

>fuck materialism man just give yourself brain damage with drugs! Lmao!

[Anonymous No.19155373]

>>19155332
and you predictably have nothing to say about the topic, you pseud. go suck your own dick.

[Anonymous No.19155813]

>>19153637
sorry for my late response, unless you're able to read italian you wont be able to read his system of logic which is his magnup opus and has never been translated into english. however, theory of mind is a good place to start with

i recommend the secondary literature of roger holmes or h.s harris. genesis and structure of society, his last work published work is a pretty good summary of all his thoughts and it's written aphoristically. h.s harris did a very good translation of it.

Giovanni Gentile and the State of Contemporary Constructivism is a good modern work. People today interpret him as a liberal, though I disagree with this notion.

[Anonymous No.19155835]

>>19150955
dubs of truth. pre liberalism (as in, britbongs in the 1800s, not shitlibs), "cults" were known to be natural. people bitch a lot about the modern day on here but this is rarely brought up.

[Anonymous No.19155851]

>>19154875
what is materialistic in wagner? perhaps any echo of schopenhauer's Wille?

[Anonymous No.19155858]

>>19155851
Ich denke he is just talking about the facial hair, a joke based onnthe OP

[Anonymous No.19155883]

>>19155851
He was under the influence of Feuerbach as well as Schopenhauer/Hegel for his entire life, taking what he could from the Young Hegelians.

>>19155858
It's that too.

[Anonymous No.19156663]

>>19148365
You either are a Stirnerist or an Idealist, everything else is just a cope.

[Anonymous No.19156787]

>>19155373
Nor do you

[Anonymous No.19157656]

>>19155858
Ah lmao

>>19155883
I didn’t know Feuerbach - or any materialistic philosophy at all - had influenced Wagner. Can you expand a bit on what in Wagner echoes Feuerbach? I think this is curious.

[Anonymous No.19157663]

>>19152573
Don't be so binary for fuck sake. There is good science, and mainstream science. Mainstream science is not about science, but Capital accumulation. Profit.
>>19148365
OP you are a retard, and i guess you haven't read the authors on your pic.
Also, congrats for not having noticed that Marx's materialism is not bourgeois materialism, but a materialism of social relations, which is not about nihilism and death. In order for you to understand this, you would have had to read. Lol. Imagine. Reading.

[Anonymous No.19157674]

>>19157663
>not bourgeois materialism, but a materialism of social relations
Virtually the same thing in practice

[Anonymous No.19157677]

>>19157663
>there is good science (science I like)
>and mainstream science (science I don't like)
gotcha

[Anonymous No.19157682]

All self proclaimed materialists are coomers

[Anonymous No.19158786]

bumparino

[Anonymous No.19158949]

>>19153807
Science goes for Berkeley tho

[Anonymous No.19158954]

>>19148365
VSauce made a video on ontology and mereology and its kinda decent

https://youtu.be/fXW-QjBsruE

[N E M O . !!GgBWHLRiayD No.19159439]

>>19148365
>How do you know if you are a Materialist or an Idealist?
I am an idealistic realist —id est: an optimalist—; to relinquish dreaming is to become adulterized; to become a materialist is to become adulterated.

>Who do I read to stay in the ideal realm?
Noone, lest you want to become like the heterodoxical socalled "traditionalists" that plague this board, constantly seeking "selfhelp" advice following their inevitable & customary existential crash.

[Anonymous No.19159852]

>>19158949
Elaborate

[Anonymous No.19159936]

>>19152483
the problem wish "science" is that there is often an arbitrary human element to it. for example when talking about race, the average person will say science disproves the idea of race, but the reality is that science only "disproves" race via a completely arbitrary line drawn in genetic variation that we use to define sub-species, there's not actual hard material debunking of the concept, just arbitrary human definitions