/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19146901]

Hey, /lit/. Any books on how Vatican II contrasts from the entire history of the Catholic Church? To further describe what I'm looking for: anything that points out the malleability of a religion as a point of weakness in its veracity would be great.

[Anonymous No.19146943]

>>19146901
>malleability of a religion as a point of weakness in its veracity
All religions are malleable and change over time. There is not one religion in history that remained the same from its inception to today (or to its death if it’s a dead religion).

[Anonymous No.19146982]

>>19146943
I mean to the extent of which it has today to conform to a globalized and liberal world. Gay marriage, abortion, immigration, interfaith dialogue, "we're all one", "we are the world, the children". You get the picture.

[Anonymous No.19146988]

Just read early church father writings.

[Anonymous No.19146990]

>>19146982
>conform?
Social democracy and related phenomena are the sickly children of Christianity as developed by the Roman Catholic Church. If anything, the last shreds of pagan antiquity had to conform to it.

[Anonymous No.19147007]

>>19146990
I suppose. It's just interesting to observe these Christians today who hold claim to a church they say hasn't changed when that is verifiably false. I don't know what church they are a part of, but most practicing adherents of it would look at them as if they had twenty heads, especially priests and higher clergy, including the infamous Bergoglio, pic related, of course.

[Anonymous No.19147030]

>>19147007
Explain how the gesture depicted in this image deviates from the precepts of Christ as explicated in the Gospels and early Church Fathers.

[Anonymous No.19147053]

>Pope literally can't stop kissing feet wherever he goes
If he teamed up with Biden, they'd be unstoppable.

[Anonymous No.19147055]

>>19147030
It honestly felt like a publicity stunt to me, considering how much of a hot button issue immigration is. Destabilizing Western countries through immigration doesn't exactly solve the problem of irreligiousness among the youth, it seems like there is something much different at play here.

[Anonymous No.19147078]

>>19146943
Ironic considering the exact allegation against the Orthodox Church that you constantly hear from Catholics is that it’s stuck in the 8th century.

[Anonymous No.19147104]

>>19147055
Sure, but, ceteris paribus, I don't understand how the image is in itself deviant from Christian teaching, which was my original question.

[Anonymous No.19147152]

>>19147104
You're not wrong, I'm simply an outsider observing how modern Christians act in the face of a changing world. By the differences I mean more of the institution itself than anything. That being said, I think many people are a little quick to use the words of Jesus to justify things that clearly don't make much sense, but on the other hand, there are people who try and mix Christianity with 'racism' and end up getting insane looks from their fellow-Christians and their priests. That's sort of the phenomenon I'm after.

[Anonymous No.19147210]

>>19146990
are you retarded? the catholic church spent most of its history embracing the monarchy, then made its official endorsement of corporatism and later fully embraced fascism as an extension of corporatism

[Anonymous No.19147234]

>>19146901
OP why did you make this thread if you are merely looking for books that will confirm a viewpoint you already possess? What possible use was there in making this thread, when you just want to read things that will tell you something you already believe?

[Anonymous No.19147239]

>>19147210
And now the Catholic Church repents of its terrible mistakes. Which was the point of this thread, the malleability mentioned.

[Anonymous No.19147245]

>>19147234
i mean, you literally answered your own question, the use of the thread is to find books that will explore ideas he is already interested in

why would YOU post this?

[Anonymous No.19147255]

>>19147239
yes im 99% sure that political pressure has a lot to do with the church "repenting" after ww2 , i wouldn't be surprised if they were threatened with the end of the Vaticans sovereignty, or weren't asked at all and were simply infiltrated and subverted by other means

[Anonymous No.19147270]

>implying the Church isn't a few short decades away from rejecting democracy again

You can already see it in the younger priests, in academic circles, in small circles of young Catholics. Francis and his generation are dying out and the Catholics that replace them will not share their ideas. These things are only talked about in small, exclusive circles right now, but we all know they won't stay there. The "Spirit of Vatican 2" will be a blip in the Church's 2000 year history. A brief moment when it looked like the Church was going to be cool with democracy and liberalism before the old ways resurfaced.

[Anonymous No.19147304]

>>19147270
This is the faggiest thing I’ve read all week

[Anonymous No.19147330]

>>19146901
The church has constantly been reformed throughout history. Priests being celibate was a medieval innovation, for example.

[Anonymous No.19147745]

>>19147330
>Priests being celibate was a medieval innovation, for example.
St Paul wrote about priests being celibate

[Anonymous No.19147758]

>>19147270
Most young catholics are normies. very few ascended autistics exist and they are marginalized. The church won't be saved.

[Anonymous No.19147761]

>>19146901
Who gives a fucking shit you huge homo

[Anonymous No.19149219]

the church def changed with vatican 2 from a project of salvation for a fallen mankind to an organization out to affirm all human dignity. somewhat similar and maybe some overlap but also very different missions. the church could easily do gay marriage, priest marriage, etc. but i think the line is abortion. if they condone abortion it's over. personally, i'm not even that opposed to abortion rights, but the church, new mission or old, cannot endorse that. that is one too far, but bergoglio is so eager to suck up to powerful american catholics that he wont call out pelosi or biden for promoting abortion. are there any other sins that if you happen to be a powerful enough politician you can get away with?

[Anonymous No.19149235]

>>19147270
Holy cope....

[Anonymous No.19149336]

>>19147053
catholic bros we got too cocky

[Anonymous No.19149501]

>>19147270
"And from those who say, “We are Christians,” We took their covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they had been commanded to uphold. So We let hostility and enmity arise between them until the Day of Judgment, and soon Allah will inform them of all they have done." - Qur'an 5:14

[Anonymous No.19149539]

>>19147270
>this is fine.
>everything is fine.
>everything will go back to normal any day now.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.19149593]

>>19146901
You are going to go to hell.

https://youtu.be/4cjOMKQPKMY

[Anonymous No.19149851]

>>19146901

[Anonymous No.19149937]

>>19147270
Holy cope. The Church has been trending progressive for the entirety of its history; it's not going to suddenly reverse.

[Anonymous No.19149952]

>>19146901
I don’t understand sedevacantism. Presumably you are Catholic because you trust the religious authority of the Church to define correct belief. If you lose that trust, why believe any aspects of Catholicism at all? Where does it derive its authority? How does one verify that x claim is true?

[Anonymous No.19149955]

>>19147210
>the catholic church spent most of its history embracing the monarchy, then made its official endorsement of corporatism and later fully embraced fascism as an extension of corporatism
Catholicism was against fascism. Also Catholics have supported social democracy traditionally in many places, as Benedict XVI said

[Anonymous No.19151757]

>>19146901
>Any books on how Vatican II contrasts from the entire history of the Catholic Church?
I'm glad you asked. Picrel is exactly what you're looking for.

[Anonymous No.19151759]

>>19146982
You’re a retard

[Anonymous No.19151787]

>>19151759
You're free to disprove what I just said, in fact, I want to be disproven.

[Anonymous No.19151949]

>>19146901
>>19149539
>Hey, /lit/. Any books on how Vatican II contrasts from the entire history of the Catholic Church?
The complete Youtube channel of Don Minutella (pbuh).