Meditation Literature

[Anonymous No.19143790]

Well /lit/, I decided to start with the Jeets. I am reading the Upanishads, then I will read the Bhagavad Gita, and then I am going to read In The Buddha's Words. However, I have seen here that a lot of people talk about how they make the mistake of reading too much, and how they neglected their meditation. So for my spiritual journey, to avoid making the same mistake as they did, after these 3 books, I plan to jump right into it. I don't really know much about meditation, so I was wondering if any anons on here could recommend some good lit on the topic. Is it fine to read just that first book on the Suttas (the first one in pic related), or do I need to do some other reading first before I am ready? Is the chart of good quality, are those recommendations good? I don't know any better, so I will probably end up following it down to the letter, and read: The Mind Illuminated --> With Each and Every Breath --> Right Concentration. Also, for those of you who have spent time meditating, can you give me some tips, anything I should know going into it?

[Anonymous No.19143811]

>>19143790
This plan any good bros?

[Anonymous No.19144024]

>>19143790
I don't know what the contents of "In The Buddha's Words" are but you ought to read the Mahasatipatthanna Sutta, which i believe is in DN

[Anonymous No.19144750]

>>19143811
As long as you don't get attached to it :)
Anyone got charts for other traditions?

[Anonymous No.19145685]

>>19143790
you dont need to read before meditating, but you need to change your life, that's hard and atheists hate to do that. Here is the sutra which brings sampajana and then samadhi. Don't forget that in buddhism, you need to memorize the dharma and non-rigth samadhi is not a step towards enlightened. Non-right samadhi is like what the hindus do, and the crowd of the The Mind Illuminated too.
Sati is necessary to reach right samadhi, ie you need to have in mind the teaching and also have the ordinary samadhi. If you dont you 'll be stuck and wont know how to reach the next level.

It's just the way it is. The path doesnt start with right samadhi. Right samadhi is actually the last step of the path.

[Anonymous No.19145689]

>>19145685
"What is the purpose of skillful virtues? What is their reward?"

"Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, Ananda, and freedom from remorse as their reward."

"And what is the purpose of freedom from remorse? What is its reward?"

"Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of joy? What is its reward?"

"Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of rapture? What is its reward?"

"Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of serenity? What is its reward?"

"Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of pleasure? What is its reward?"

"Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of concentration? What is its reward?"

"Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of knowledge & vision of things as they actually are? What is its reward?"

"Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of disenchantment? What is its reward?"

"Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of dispassion? What is its reward?"

"Dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.

"Thus in this way, Ananda, skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward. Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward. Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward. Dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.

"In this way, Ananda, skillful virtues lead step-by-step to the consummation of arahantship."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.001.than.html

[Anonymous No.19145938]

>>19145685
In which order, then, would you suggest to go through this chart?

[Anonymous No.19145993]

Does Anyone Have The Original Of This Image? Without The Drawings Over it OP Made ?
:)

[Anonymous No.19146750]

>>19145993
>>19145993
OP here, I havn't touched the thread since my first two posts. The second image I sent has the drawings over it, but the original is fresh. So right here >>19143790

[OP No.19146832]

>>19145938
And I second this. This thread has gotten fairly derailed. I am still wondering what I should read, or what I should do, to learn how to meditate. And "just do it' is not an answer. I don't know if I made it clear in my original post but I am a complete beginner. The problem with >>19145685, is that you are explaining to me why I shouldn't read "the mind illuminated" in terms that I don't know. I think sutra just means a saying/quote of the Buddha if I'm not mistaken. But I have no idea what: sampajana, samadhi, dharma, non-right samadhi, sati, samadhi, etc means. And worse yet, you have not presented any alternatives, you just told me it's bad. I know that you said you don't need to read before meditating, but then you go on to say "Don't forget that in buddhism, you need to memorize the dharma''. How am I to memorize it without reading it? You also said that "you need to change your life", but this is very broad, and I have no idea what changes specifically you mean. Can you at least give a list of steps on what you would recommend to get into meditation, whether it be books to read or actions to take?

[Anonymous No.19146940]

>>19146832
Let's hope he answers. Finding a person actually knowledgeable about Buddhism seems impossible. My father has read quite a lot, and he can't honestly advise me anything more than 'do yoga before meditation'. Still, I have some kind of advantage, since I've accidentally done a lotus flower when I was a child and am still able to

[OP No.19147091]

>>19146940
No replies... Alright I guess I'll just follow the chart. I am going to go straight down the left side of that list and see where it takes me.

[Anonymous No.19147105]

>>19147091
Are you reading The Suttas? If you want to, we could add each other and try discussing each as we go through it.

[OP No.19147149]

>>19147105
Eh probably not, as I'm reading the Upanishads and I'm going to read the Bhagavad Gita first. I haven't read much about this topic yet, I'm just trying to plan out which books to get and what to read in the future.

[Anonymous No.19147160]

>>19147149
You're overestimating me, and I have no fixed plans for reading it, either.

[Anonymous No.19147559]

>>19143790
It's laudable to want to start from the beginning but I think you may be assuming more of a continuity between the Upanishads and early Buddhist meditation methods than is actually present in the texts if your primary goal is to find a cohesive system of meditation. What is meant by dhyana and samadhi changes quite drastically and this is complicated even further by the "jhana wars" amongst later Buddhist practitioners. As for books, I'd say With Each and Every Breath is a good choice because, in the end, you have to extrapolate a repeatable, practical technique from all those suttas. Establishing a basis in breath awareness is a very good place to start.

[Anonymous No.19147613]

>>19143790
Just avoid Western "Buddhism", and you're good.

[OP No.19148046]

>>19147613
>B-b-but Sam Harris said that religion is evil, and that we need to create our own fun version of Buddhism

[Anonymous No.19148100]

>>19148046
Lol, I know you're facetious but, if anon read original Buddhist text, and was able to think for themselves and apply critical thinking, again, in the true send of CT, and not some hippie BS, OP will come across some "dark truths". Also, meditation, in this sense, is a painful experience. And of course, ignore Western cunts that bastardize Buddhism for some self-help crap, because, it's not the same kind of self-help that they preach.

TLDR: read the original sauce mane, think for yourself, and yeah, enjoy the ride my g.

[Anonymous No.19148773]

why did the other meditation thread get baleeted?

[Anonymous No.19148788]

>>19148773
Well thats dumb, thankfully I have it open in another tab, I don't have auto update enabled, and I'm not going to refresh it

[Anonymous No.19148799]

I'm just going to repost a few things from the other thread so that they aren't lost:

"Here, I'll give it to you:
>Sit or lie down. I prefer sitting since it's easier to concentrate and not doze off.
>Scan you body. Start with your toes or what ever you feel like.
>Notice sensations like pain, warmth, tingling in your hands or what ever.
>Try to accept what ever sensation your feel without judgement. Let the sensation of one body part go when you move to a new one.
>Now your body is hopefully relaxed enough to go to the next step:
>Focus your full awareness on your breath. Do not breath mechanically, try to zoom out and watch your breath.
>Thoughts will disturb you. Am I doing it right? What should I eat tonight? When your start thinking, gently turn your awareness back to your breath.
>Think of your brain like a puppy, when it starts to run around and tug at your sleeve you tell it to sit. By time, your dog-mind will learn how to sit.
>When you reach a moment of clarity and you think to yourself "wow, this is amazing", let that thought go too because that will snap you ot of your meditative state.

This is not the end of it all but this is what I did when I first started meditating.
There's no need to be too strict in the beginning, you can count your breaths if you want too.
Good luck, Anon!"

[Anonymous No.19148809]

Here are some more posts, essentially a summary of the other thread, I'll be separating them with different paragraphs:

OP - What is the best meditation guide for beginners?

the mind illuminated for the buddhist approach
happiness beyond thought for the advaita approach
both try to remain secular

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8wNh8-HLs [Embed]
watch this, or rather listen to it (listen only to sound without screen and listen/follow)
then repeat that shit everyday

www.dhamma.org

Undoing yourself with meditation and other devices by Christopher S Hyatt PHD

Critique of Pure Reason Immanuel Kant

Bhagavad gita is all you need. Yoga is really the most simple and profound approach to contentment and wellbeing through life. The basedposter who suggested dhamma is also solid advice -- preferably you'd take one of their donation based 10 day vipassana events and get to know the spiritual path of meditation.

The Sun My Heart by Thich Nhat Hanh was very simple and helpful for me, as well as his other books like Being Peace and The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching. The latter is my favorite of his works that I've read, and I've come back to it and studied it over and over. His Sutra translations at the end are gold. I'd also recommend any of the short guides on the Plum Village website, or the websites of the other monasteries in that tradition like Deer Park. Thich Nhat Hanh also has great dharma talks that help us understand and apply meditative practice. There's one on youtube called "Resting in God" that I watched and enjoyed earlier today.

Thich Nhat Hanh helps us understand that in many ways, meditation is really a simple and deep practice. You're just sitting and being with yourself, becoming present to yourself and thus to the Buddha and to the consummation of reality. You are resting in the availability of existence.

As a supplement I also would recommend Buddhadasa's book on Mindfulness With Breathing as it is excellent. As I think more I'd also recommend Thich Nhat Hanh's book on the Energy of Prayer because it helps us understand the spirit of contemplative practice. Beyond this I'd say you just need a simple understanding of the practice and then a broad and profound motivation to uncover the beauty of existence. Read some of Saint Sophrony's writings to understand the rigor and energy of spiritual life.

I really liked Mindfulness in Plain English. I've been trying to meditate off and on for a few years, but after reading it I've been meditating pretty consistently for the past 5 months.

[Anonymous No.19148818]

>>19148799
>>19148809

With these two posts, you >>19148773
should have everything you need from the other thread. But on a side note, why are the jannies so dumb?

[Anonymous No.19149613]

Dead thread

[Anonymous No.19149637]

>>19149613
Bumping with the Jeets

[Anonymous No.19149738]

>>19149637
Third jeets chart

[Anonymous No.19149744]

>>19149738
A few on here too

[Anonymous No.19149754]

>>19149744
Heck, I'll even throw in a different kind of jeet

[Anonymous No.19149780]

>>19149754
We need more micro charts. Can't expect pedestrians to read 20 books.

[Anonymous No.19149789]

>>19149780
This is exactly what I was thinking. Like damn there's no way I will get through like 30 books. Like make multiple charts, and call the first one a beginner chart, and narrow it down to like 5 books, just to get started.

[Anonymous No.19149798]

>>19149780
I am actually starting with that micro chart, and it is taking months to properly study just the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita alone. (But this is balanced with a full time job, and a pretty busy life in general)

[Anonymous No.19149815]

>>19149798
I would have put the Gita first, but otherwise that's a sensible chart covering the essentials. You have the root text, the popular text, and a few schools.

[Anonymous No.19150671]

>>19148818
>>19148809
all those are mash ups of bad methods and contains zero buddhism in them.
They're good if you want to be hindu or some atheist larping as one.

[Anonymous No.19150687]

Could any of you, Buddhist masters, just write in what order to read these books?

[Anonymous No.19150697]

>>19143790
if you want to meditate go do it, you don't need to read any book to be able to meditate

[Anonymous No.19152042]

yes

[Anonymous No.19152090]

>>19143790
In a nutshell, it seems meditation is just a way of removing metabolites from the brain and getting food into it without sleeping. So you feel refreshed. Whoops, enlightened.

[Anonymous No.19152129]

>>19144750

[Anonymous No.19152404]

>>19146832
>The problem with >>19145685 #, is that you are explaining to me why I shouldn't read "the mind illuminated" in terms that I don't know. I think sutra just means a saying/quote of the Buddha if I'm not mistaken. But I have no idea what: sampajana, samadhi, dharma, non-right samadhi, sati, samadhi, etc means. And worse yet, you have not presented any alternatives, you just told me it's bad.
He is just presenting his narrow sectarian view where he views anything that isnt Theravada Buddhism as being intrinsically bad and incorrect, so naturally this kind of person will try to dissuade you from reading Hindu and Mahayana writings. Buddhists dont really have any good arguments for why Hinduism and Hindu meditations are bad. They criticize the Nyaya, Samkhya and Vaisheshika schools (which nobody really follows anymore anyway), but they dont have any serious critique of Hindu yogic/meditation methods, and nor do they have any substantive critiques of the Vedantic/Tantric metaphysics that most Hindus follow today. There are actually many parallels between Buddhism and how cults function, where people are taught a value-system that automatically ranks people as good insiders and bad infidels (wrong view) where everything else is automatically dismissed as wrong without any good faith examination or demonstration of why, it’s all just circular and you just get redirected back to “because Buddha said so” without any underlying reason for why other views are bad. It gets to the point where Buddhists will be tell other non-Buddhists who are deep into Yoga or Taoist Neidan etc that their views actually are making them suffer, not because the Buddhist in question has actually examined those things to see if they produce suffering, but rather because this claim has to be true in order for the Buddhists’ cult-like world view to remain consistent.

[Anonymous No.19152472]

>>19152404
>they dont have any serious critique of Hindu yogic/meditation methods, and nor do they have any substantive critiques of the Vedantic/Tantric metaphysics that most Hindus follow today
Those replaced Buddhism in India so there are few Buddhist sources concerned with refuting later Indian views, since the centers of both Buddhist intellectual output and Buddhist laity had shifted outside India, and so what was preserved and studied whether in Tibet or in Thailand was largely debates against the older non-Buddhist Indian systems
>muh cult
There are surely cultists in the most pejorative sense among Buddhists as there are among other religions, but in all fairness Buddhist contact with rival beliefs has been far more syncretic than in other systems, especially as compared to say abrahamism. It is true in Buddhism from a strictly doxographic perspective that other views are considered inferior, but this is a fairly banal view for any system to have of its rivals. If such a view was not upheld the system itself would fold into mere pragmatism or mere skepticism, which some people mistake Buddhism for and then are surprised when they find out it does have dogma and really isn't for nihilistic hippies at all.

[Anonymous No.19152670]

I think people get confused about how to meditate because they really know why they're doing it, they just know that it's something "good to do" like eating right and exercising. When you read the sutras, the Buddha would recommend specific meditation practices to specific monks depending on what issues they were facing. There are different practices to calm down an angry mind, or a distracted mind, or a deluded mind. There are practices that just feel good, and practices that help develop wisdom. There's meditations just to stop monks from being coomers, or from overeating and getting fat.
>>19143811
Here you have 3 different practices. Samatha is your standard meditation where you calm your mind and develop focus. It focuses on attaining a trance-like state. It helps lessen attachment to the sensual world.
The books in the Insight box will teach a style of meditation that doesn't lead you into deep trances, but helps you see the reality of things without the illusions that the mind normally projects onto them.
The Metta book is good for overcoming hate and greed and other evil mental qualities. This meditation is good if you're angry or jealous all the time. I've read the author's other books and they're kind of advanced, but that book should be fine.
There's also overlap between all of these. Samatha can lead to insight, and both Metta and Insight meditation can lead to low-level Samatha states.
In the end, there's no one size fits all guide because everyone's different. Also I generally don't read books on meditation; I just read short essays or talks by monks I like.
Here's some instructions that combine all three types. If there's some part that you find interesting you could research it more:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/breathmed.html

[Anonymous No.19152970]

>>19150671
Ok then. You say it's bad, yet you provide no alternatives. Every single thread we have people people like this. You come in, whine about literally every single option given, and then refuse to provide a better one. You didn't even name any specific criticisms, you just said that they were bad, and accused them of being hindu/atheist. If you don't have any other recommendations, then regardless of your criticisms, then I will have no choice but to go with the options already given

[Anonymous No.19152982]

>>19152129
Can you tell me more about Islam, I tried to read the Quaran (without commentaries), and I got absolutely filtered. Could you recommend the most readable translation, with good commentary for a westerner? Esentially like the Good News Translation of the Bible, but for the Quaran

[Anonymous No.19153014]

What's the point of any other religions except of buddhism? Its positive influences have been proven, the scientific reasons for them explained, and so on. What is there to Islam? Christianity? Hermeticism? I really see no reason why one should even consider them.

[Anonymous No.19153082]

>>19152670
Thank you for the genuine reply. You actually tried to answer my question, and you made a post that I learned something from. I couldn't get any definitive answer here, but I ended up deciding on this path (pic related in red). So my current plan is:

Upanishads (the book I'm on now) --> Bhagavad Gita --> In the Buddha's Words --> With Each and Every Breath --> Right Concentration

I feel like these 5 books are a good way to get started. I have spent a long time trying to get advice and choose the right books, but I think this is as refined as the list is going to get. Keep in mind I know literally nothing about the topic, so in that sense it's kind of hard to find out where to start.

Though I must say that I'm kind of disappointed though that I can't find a paperback copy of With Each and Every Breath on Amazon, (well you can but only sold by scalpers for like $100) because I prefer to read spiritual texts with physical paper, not through a screen. But I mean the guy puts all available formats on his website for free, so I guess beggar's can't be choosers.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#eachandeverybreath
^The link for anybody else who is interested

This is honestly the list that I'm probably going to follow. If anybody has any other advice, then explain which books on there aren't good, why, and provide alternatives. You could even recreate the entire path with completely different set of books, I am open to it. But at the very least explain the choices. That's all

[Anonymous No.19153094]

>>19153082
Also, the question marks I put there, are because I do not know where specifically to go next. I might try the insight meditation and the Metta as was mentioned by >>19152670. But at this point, that's more then 5 books of study away from me right now, and as such, it's not something I need to know right now. I'll figure that out as I go

[Anonymous No.19153123]

>>19153014
Well in my life I have found that when I actually try to engage with religions, and actually study their theology, I have found a lot to gain from them. I am not an atheist, but now I simply have to play devils advocate for fedora:

>What's the point of any religion? You can just practice all of the spiritual aspects without any of the dogma. All its positive influences have been proven, the scientific reasons for them explained, and so on. Read Sam Harris. What is there to Islam? Christianity? Hermeticism? Buddhism? And Hinduism? Why would you want the extra baggage associated with these religions. Why not just take the best parts of each and dump the rest. Why limit yourself to just one? I really see no reason why one should even consider them. They have been long disproved, and we have found secular societies to be by far the most successful in the world, that is clearly where the future of the human race lies.

[Anonymous No.19153136]

>>19153082
Why are you skipping The Mind Illuminated?
>>19153123
You haven't actually said anything

[Anonymous No.19153170]

>>19153136
Oh, I'm skipping the mind illuminated because I had a long chat with somebody who knows quite a bit about it, whose actually read these books, and he said that it was boring and dry. That's it really

[Anonymous No.19153183]

>>19153170
>appeal to authority
>in spite of the fact that he is still trying to figure out how to read this chart
>boring and dry
?

[Anonymous No.19153196]

>>19153082
Click the link in your post and look under "Printed Book Requests" You can request any book be sent to you for free. You do have to send a physical letter with your request, but that makes it cooler. If you go this route, get a copy of the Dhammapada too. It's short and much easier to read than the actual sutras.

[Anonymous No.19153337]

>>19153183
I am tempted to wojack post in response to this, but what else do you want from me? Yes, I have a friend who has read most or all of these books, and he personally strongly recommended to skip the mind illuminated. He specifically cited the reason, that it was boring and dry. No I don't know anything about these books which is why I made this thread.

> Why didn't you just take his word on it in the first place
I asked him after I made the thread, and I want a variety of opinions on the topic

>appeal to authority
Well yes. I don't know anything about these books. So I should probably ask where to start right? The entire point of this thread...

>in spite of the fact that he is still trying to figure out how to read this chart
Yes. It is precisely because I have not read any of the books on this chart, that I am asking for somebody more knowledgeable on the subject for advice on where to start. It doesn't have to be the be all and end all, but I just want to know where to start

>boring and dry
Yes. He explained it in depth, but honestly I'm tired replying to troll posts, I refuse to answer any more dumb greentexts

[Anonymous No.19153340]

>>19153196
Thank you

[Anonymous No.19153354]

>>19153337
You just weren't clear enough, thus my reaction - sorry. Most people would call math boring because they prefer to play games. I've read a bit of The Mind Illuminated and didn't find it boring nor dry. Would you please paste his explanation, or simply clarify what he meant by 'borng and dry'?

[Anonymous No.19153405]

>>19153354 1/?
"I'm really happy you're so enthused about studying the Dharma. Seriously, that's pretty great. Though it's really difficult to tell you where to start without you knowing what practice suits you best.
Perhaps you should start with a beginner's meditation book, like Mindfulness in Plain English, which is one of the texts there.

Academically, sure, nothing wrong with these, but these texts have underlying contexts that can only be found and understood with the right teacher and matching practices. They're not beneficial at all without them because these books primarily mentions practice complimented by supporting "philosophies" and concepts. The Bodhicharyavatara, for example, isn't worth much without understanding concepts such as bodhichitta, why that's important in Mahayana, and practices/vows connected to it.
I would suggest not following these charts, seems very "DIY Buddhist" to me
Very scattered as well

There are a lot of really great books there I do recommend, but not without knowing what would be the best for you at this moment besides anything that is specifically about meditation.
For example, Ajahn Chah's Food for the Heart was incredibly helpful for me but only after establishing a practice.
Stay away from the philosophy heavy books like Nagarjuna, Chandrakirti, and Aryadeva.
Take a book on the view such as In the Buddha's Words along with a book on meditation such as With Each and Every Breath and that is really solid to start with.
In fact, those were some of my beginning books.

[Anonymous No.19153416]

>>19153405
ME: Hm, how about "the mind illuminated", is it any good?

It could be good for you, or not. It's a very detailed meditation manual on the 9 stages of shamatha presented in a secular format. It could be too dry, but if that style works for you, then it might be good. For me it was too dry.
I recommended With Each and Every Breath because it's more true to the Buddha's actual teachings as opposed to a commentary of sorts, and that book would also take you through shamatha, including all the jhanas.

ME: I guess next thing to ask would be about the book after, which is "Right concentration"
I see it says, a practical guide to the jhanas, which you just mentioned

Leigh Brasington did help me a lot in the beginning to understand jhana so he would be good too. Although my jhana path went a little differently than perhaps most peoples' did as I practiced straight out of the EBT's with TWIM (Bhante Vimalaramsi)
Honestly, anyone practicing jhana should do it via TWIM which is an incredibly effective path.
If not, then the forest Ajahn's are the best to follow, IMO. I recommend following the Buddha's earliest teachings as closely as possible.
Commentaries of commentaries might be helpful but it's like watered down Buddhism. Better to go right to the source or close enough to it, I think.
If you find even a inkling's worth of interest in Mahayana, Zen or Tibetan Buddhism would be the next place to look and I would do that. Not everyone has an interest in Mahayana and if you do, then it's worth exploring.
Though it can be a little much which is why just starting on a path of practice and a path like the jhanas is easy and effective until one becomes more acquainted with Buddhism in general.

[Anonymous No.19153458]

It's a mess, and more then one person jumps in there, but it should be easy enough to understand

[Anonymous No.19154461]

Alright dead thread

[Anonymous No.19154484]

>>19148809
Congrats on the brain worms -- you've consented to a cult!