/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19095140]

How's "The Meme Trilogy" going /lit/?

Did you read them already?

[Anonymous No.19095148]

>>19095140
No, and it's clear from those spines that neither have you.

[Anonymous No.19095154]

>>19095140
I love debolsillo so much

[Anonymous No.19095161]

I already read Pynchon and Joyce long ago. I'm pretty convinced DFW isn't worth it, though.

[Anonymous No.19095163]

translating that pynchon meme must have been a shitty job

[Anonymous No.19095171]

Read The Jest.
Filtered by Ulysses
Dropped GR out of boredom.

[Anonymous No.19095195]

I tried reading ulysses but all it described were trivial events in the life of extremely uninteresting men. Are the other two any better?

[Anonymous No.19095216]

>>19095140
No, I value my time.

[Anonymous No.19095220]

Whatever you do, do not read Pynchon translated

[Anonymous No.19095237]

>>19095195
Gravity's rainbow is at least not mundane. Just make it past part 2 (300ish pges into the book) and you'll know if you want to commit to 800 pages
The beginning is weird, even for pynchon

[Anonymous No.19095256]

Read it all three, but hated. It's baroque (post) modernist prose trying to be edgy. I prefere a concise and elegant style like Walser or Borges.

[Anonymous No.19095257]

>>19095140
I must admit as an ESL I'm a little intimidated by them.

[Anonymous No.19095275]

>>19095256
Almost nothing you said makes sense.

[Anonymous No.19095284]

>>19095275
He should write postmodern novels, then.

[Anonymous No.19095394]

>>19095140
If you're not reading these in English you might as well not read them at all, especially Ulysses.

[Anonymous No.19095415]

>>19095171
The Holy Trinity of the Midwit

[Anonymous No.19095423]

>>19095140
>IJ
one of my favorite novels, read around 2017 or so.
>Ulysses
also one of my favorites, read this year.
>GR
haven't read, not really interested.

[Anonymous No.19095430]

Are you seriously reading a translation of fucking Ulysses? Only GR could retain any value in translation. IJ and English rely too much on linguistic tricks. IJ also has some really cool ideas though. Maybe that's okay but Ulysses, no, waste of time.

[Anonymous No.19095446]

>>19095140
based esl fellow making anglos seethe
godspeed

[Anonymous No.19095453]

IJ > Ulysses >>>> GR

Pynchon is just fucking boring. I don't understand what people like about him personally. IJ is constantly bombarding you with fleshed out characters, brain crunching moral dilemmas, constantly satirizing culture and yet embracing it in a nice warm hug. It offers a way out of irony, out of contempt. Ulysses offers so many linguistic tricks you can read that book over and over again and it has a very happy, yellow feeling about it. GR is just fucking boring, I too can make up shit. It reads like Pynchon just wrote down whatever came into his head. The prose is opaque, somehow even more than IJ and sparing a few beautiful passages, much of it is nonsense. I could go on wiki and mention every esoteric thing on the planet but that does not make a book good. The story, especially part 1 has zero fucking momentum. Shit book, shit writer, glorified by losers.

[Anonymous No.19095487]

>meme books
>no Call of the Crocodile

[Anonymous No.19095527]

>>19095256
Love the walser praise on /lit/. The berlin stories are great. Stil, wtf are you saying. If you mean gr is postmodern prose trying to be edgy... wtf is postmodern prose? Is making an edgy artistic statement the same as revelling in edginess for its own sake? Because the edginess in gr serves pretty simple satirical and more opaque thematic purposes that are obviously not revelling in the edge. Is showing a sexual or violent scene always bad?

[Anonymous No.19095556]

>>19095453
Gr is a hopeful book, and its anger is justified. I hate dfw's whole reaction to the "coldness" of pomo lit thing. Isn't contempt sometimes justified? The black humor of pynchon and gaddis is a proper response to what they satirize. Sure, the attempt to move beyond it is admirable, but there's far more heart to be found in pynchon than dfw. I read the coprophagia and bdsm scenes as intensely emotional and caring, born out of a sympathy with the people that evil governments step on and demand complicity from.
It's also far funner to read than dfw for me but that's subjective.

[Anonymous No.19095590]

I'm 100 pages away from finishing IJ, gonna read it later. Honestly it's been a fucking journey. It took my three tries over two years to force myself through the book, being an ESL I was having a hard time trying to comprehend what the fuck's going on in the book. My favorite chapters are probably the one where JvD was collecting materials to demap herself, and also the fight between Gately and the Canadians. Really glad I wasn't turned off by the meme status and managed to power through the book.

[Anonymous No.19095594]

>>19095154
Qué tal sus notas? Son al pie de página o posteriores al texto?

[Anonymous No.19095598]

>>19095556
>black humor of pynchon and gaddis is a proper response to what they satirize
True, and DFW agrees with this. What he argues is that black humor and sardonic irony, though effective against WWII, Watergate, etc., are not effective against television addiction, American laziness, etc., i.e. the problems of the new millennium.

[Anonymous No.19095617]

>Gravity's Rainbow
Read it, enjoyed it, barely understood 10% of it. I'd like to re-read it at some point to try and get more out of it. The chapter comparing calculus and the rocket scientist and his daughter was one of the most beautiful things I've ever read. Pynchon also seems to be a master of the human attention span, he always had shit dangling just on the edge of awareness.
>Infinite Jest
Loved it, but was incredibly pissed by the "ending." You go through the whole thing only for DFW to shrug and say "you figure it out fucker." None of the reading I did after suggested that anyone had any satisfactory clue what the fuck he was going for there. Mario was my favorite though, too pure.
>Ulysses
Haven't read it yet, on my list.

[Anonymous No.19095634]

What's the point of reading those in beanspeak? Ultimately you're reading some spic's fanfiction and not Joyce's Ulyses.

[Anonymous No.19095637]

Where’s CotC?

[Anonymous No.19095647]

>>19095634
I saw a spanish translation of Finnegan's Wake the other day, it made me chuckle

[Anonymous No.19095653]

>>19095647
>Finnegan's
>'
nval

[Anonymous No.19095665]

>>19095647
>>19095653
forgot to add picrel
>>19095653
oopsies

[Anonymous No.19095667]

>>19095594
Pie de pagina

[Anonymous No.19096581]

>>19095617
>None of the reading I did after suggested that anyone had any satisfactory clue what the fuck he was going for there
He didn't shrug, the answers are all there and the ending is perfect from the standpoint of theme.

[Anonymous No.19096589]

Pretty sure it’s meme quadrilogy at this point

[Anonymous No.19096594]

>>19096589
Very true Kek.

[Anonymous No.19096596]

>>19095140
currently reading Ulysses. Just finished Cyclops, definitely my favorite chapter so far. I read IJ in high school and found it good. I sometimes see something and think to myself "DFW was right". Should reread it soon. I also hope to read some Pynchon soon. I'm so happy bros Ulysses has resparked my love for reading after being in a reading slump for a month or so.
>>19095154
I hate them so much. I'm currently on a crusade to replace all my Debolsillo with nicer editions. They should all cost at least 50 mx pesos less.
>>19095594
Nunca he visto que tengan notas. Y a veces el texto está diminuto, ilegible.

[Anonymous No.19096603]

>>19095634
I've compared the first chapter in English and Spanish the other day and the translation was not that bad. Much is lost but it seemed to capture Joyce's style and the essence of the book well. I imagine other chapters are harder to translate though.

[Anonymous No.19096604]

>>19096589
CotC is in a league of it's own. Infinite Jest, Ulysess and Pychon are the classic literature ones.

[Anonymous No.19096605]

>>19095140
Yeah IJ was the most enjoyable and resonating however GR lingered for much longer and I kept thinking about it despite not having as good of a time reading it. I'm considering rereading Ulysses for the centenary. The parts that clicked really stayed with me but the parts that didn't were a slog

[Anonymous No.19096755]

>>19095140
why not in english?

[Anonymous No.19096779]

read them all

[Anonymous No.19098343]

>>19096581
I'll admit I was being a bit hyperbolic saying nobody had any clue, I'm just frustrated that the consensus online for how a lot of the loose ends get tied up seems to rely on some pretty ambiguous statements. It felt to me like DFW is the teacher that assigns homework like he's your only teacher. There's other books I want to read and immediately turning around and re-reading a 1000 page book isn't my idea of a good time. I've always sucked at exegesis though, how was the ending thematically perfect?

[Anonymous No.19098389]

>>19095140
Read ulysses, absolutely loved it from start to finish. I've never seen a book as varied and deep in style and theme. Perhaps it helps that I finished dubliners and protrait the same month I started ulysses but damn, what a novel.
Reading gravity's rainbow. It'a fun with some spectacular passages, but really nothing like ulysses in terms of literary achievement. What's really impressive is it's ability to capture the culture and uncertainty of the post war world. Kind of disappointed pointsmen disappeared in part 3 because he was the character I was most invested in, even if slothropes pathetic journey is compelling
Haven't read IJ

[Anonymous No.19098539]

>>19095195
are you joking?

[Anonymous No.19098556]

>>19095257
ulysses is certainly tough but I don't know about the others. read Dubliners and and Portrait of the Artist before anything if you want to get into Joyce.

[Anonymous No.19099824]

>>19095161
He's not outstanding in an "Important Enduring Canonical Literature" sense but he absolutely does speak to disaffected introverted white guys who find themselves very bored and somewhat lonely in the 21st century (i.e. (You) and me) in a way that I've found few other authors to.
IJ is not a bad book, and there are many sections of it that are absolutely exceptional, but I don't think I'd personally like the whole thing very much if I was anybody else. The Pale King is a better work in my opinion but still carries the same caveat.

[Anonymous No.19099842]

>>19096755
Big book scary

[Anonymous No.19099850]

>post2015/lit/ tries to talk about literature

[Anonymous No.19099864]

>>19098556
He really needs to read Dubliners in English, there's no point if he doesn't.
Shouldn't be a problem since he browses this website so often, and he can look up unknown words in Online Dictionaries.

[Anonymous No.19099874]

>>19099850
I was too late to the party.

[Anonymous No.19099922]

>>19096589
will someone actually explain wtf CotC is about so I dont have to read it

[Anonymous No.19100556]

>>19095140
There's a couple huge spanish translations of Ulysses that looked amazing
How's that one?
>>19095154
They can be retardedly expensive, but I like them well enough

[Anonymous No.19101211]

Mine went pretty well.

[Anonymous No.19101224]

I only read IJ so far. How difficult are the other two in terms of language compared to IJ? I am not a native but got through IJ fairly well

[Anonymous No.19101259]

>>19099824
>(You)

I'm not disaffected nor white nor "very bored." DFW revels in non-problems. His essays are total cringefests, and the one that actually concerns a real problem (9/11) was wholly embarrassing for how tedious and dimwitted it was.

I think maybe you meant to say "DFW is an inspiration to white academics with nothing interesting to say because it's FUBU."

[Anonymous No.19101330]

first of the trilogy I read was Ulysses and IJ in 2017 and GR in 2018.
Enjoyed all of them thoroughly.

>>19095394
>>19095430
I read ulysses in my native language (out of curiosity) and in english. Both were very enjoyable experiences but obviously different, and obviously in the original language it is much better, but dismissing a translation altogether is just wrong.
Between never reading ulysses and reading it translated (with a good translation, obviously), one should definitely read it translated. Not all is lost in the translation, saying so is an insult to Joyce.
Also, by having such strong opinions, I'd guess you both speak fluently a language distant from english and read ulysses in that language, to be able to comapre them side by side, right? anglos always as arrogant as they are stupid.

[Anonymous No.19101337]

>>19095140
>traducciones
>debolsillo
oh no no no

[Anonymous No.19101492]

>>19101337
What is your recommendation? tusquets?
Los modismos españoles me destrozan el alma

[Anonymous No.19101637]

>>19101330
>Not all is lost in the translation, saying so is an insult to Joyce.
Bit dramatic... It's like closing your eyes to watch a movie. You can follow the story but you sure missed a lot.

[Anonymous No.19101877]

>>19101211
Would be better if all three authors were of the same literary movement. Replace Melville with some modernist.

[Anonymous No.19101883]

>>19101492
No onions él, pero como señala >>19095665 Zabaloy tiene traducciones a las tres obras cumbres de Joyce (Ulíses, Finnegans Wake y Dublineses) y son más fidedignas que las de Debolsillo. TusQuets tiene la única traducción del Arco Iris que he visto y la Broma Infinita sólo está traducida por Penguin Random House y Debolsillo que pertenece a PRH.

En general, para traducciones prefiero TusQuets que Debolsillo, y editoriales con buenas selecciones diría: Conmemorativas RAE, Anagrama, Impedimenta y Austral.
Austral tiene muy buenas traducciones de los clásicos y sus nuevas ediciones en tapa dura son bastante lindas.

[Anonymous No.19101890]

>>19101883
Ah y Penguin, por supuesto, para traducciones y para obras en español. Los artículos en su edición de La Celestina me parecieron muy útiles.

[Anonymous No.19101915]

>>19101883
>No onions él
kek

[Anonymous No.19101922]

>>19101883
>>19101890
Gracias

[Anonymous No.19101931]

>>19101915
Sí, detesto que sōy se cambie a onions

>>19101922
De nada, anon, ¿qué editoriales lees?

[Anonymous No.19101949]

>>19101931
TusQuets, Debolsillo, Penguin, y cuando no hay dinero compro Porrua.

[Anonymous No.19102266]

>>19101492
leelo en ingles y ya

[Anonymous No.19102294]

You forgot one OP

[Anonymous No.19102303]

>>19102294
BASED
A
S
E
D

[Anonymous No.19102314]

>>19102294
Got filtered by this one and sadly there's no spanish translation, yet.

[Anonymous No.19102317]

>>19101949
Puedes descargar libros gratis.

[Anonymous No.19102320]

>>19102317
Me gusta el papel.

[Anonymous No.19102321]

>>19102294
This is honestly an actual meme book. IJ, Ulysses, and Gravity’s Rainbow are books normies know about.

[Anonymous No.19102327]

>>19095163
Translating anything is a meme.

[Anonymous No.19102536]

Read IJ and enjoyed it a lot minus a few small parts like the Wardine bullshit. But when that book hit, it hit hard. It spoke to me as a young depressed male in a way that no other book has desu.

I read GR maybe 2 years ago and what a trip that was. A ton of things went over my head and I'm not too sure what to make of the book as a whole. I think I need to reread it.

[Anonymous No.19103844]

i refuse to read infinite jest
joyce is a fun guy, his books are really funny
i refuse to read pynchon
cantos are missing from that list, but it was a fun enough read, but it isn't his best

[Anonymous No.19103913]

>>19102536
>I think I need to reread it.
absolutely, it gets better the second time.
but be aware, pynchon himself said there are parts in GR even he doesn't understand what the fuck he meant when he wrote.

>>19101637
>It's like closing your eyes to watch a movie.
no, it isn't. If the translation is good and the translator takes some creative liberties to maintain the nuances, the humor, the obscenities, there's plenty of value still to make for a good read. I laughed reading the original, I laughed reading the translation.
Plus, it's a great exercise to read a translation of such a complex work, it can improve your understand of the work itself and even of the language you are reading it in. I read the whole thing translated to my native language, and as an exercise, I also read a couple of chapters and other parts in Italian, and it's interesting.
again, dramatic is dismissing it altogether, specially if you don't even speak another language other than english and have never actually experienced a translation...

[Anonymous No.19104409]

Just finished Circe, I'm generally not reading as much as I used to, not even every day anymore, which is why it's been three or so months since I started it. I am enjoying it when I do read it though, and I'm definitely going to finish it. One thing not enough people say about Ulysses is that it's legitimately just fun to read, if you have to force yourself and pretend you're enjoying it then you're doing it wrong
I read Infinite Jest a couple years ago when I did read every day, and finished it in a month
I've read Lot 49 and want to read V. before GR, and want to read GR before it reaches its 50 year anniversary (I have successfully read IJ before its 25th and will have read Ulysses by its 100th)

[Anonymous No.19104447]

>>19103844
read Inherent Vice, it's unpretentious and hilarious

[Anonymous No.19104480]

Loved IJ and not afraid to admit it. Read it three times and got more out of it each time.
Just finished Dubliners and about to start Portrait, building up to Ulysses.
Will maybe try GR, but have a lot of others that seem more worthwhile ahead of it on my to-read list.

[Anonymous No.19105679]

>>19103844
>i refuse to read infinite jest
why

[Anonymous No.19105683]

>>19095140
Only Ulysses and Infinite Jizz.