[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 2.52 MB, 1020x1016, 1631451147463.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19082469 No.19082469 [Reply] [Original]

Was talking to another anon about this in another thread and I'm 100% serious

What am I trying to get out of poetry when I'm reading? Am I trying to find a narrative or does it not matter at all? I've just never ever ever been compelled to read poetry. I'm kinda open to it but I just feel weird reading something without straightforward prose

I'll try and keep an open mind cause I'm interested in your reasons

>> No.19082506

Honestly poetry is been made pretty much irrelevant with the invention of music

>> No.19082523

>>19082506
That's what I was thinking, though music has existed forever.

But what I mean is that if I'm gonna read poetry, it might as well have some music to it. There must be something else to it because millions of people read it

>> No.19082532

I'm the one that told you to make this thread, though now I'm here I don't know what to say. Have you ever read poetry? That's a good start. Read a number of classic poems. Google 'best poems'. Or ask people to post their favourite poems in a thread.

Poetry is ... almost a sense impression. Of course all literature is composed of sense impressions in some way, but poetry is like all of that condensed. If a novel is the change from sunshine to storms and back again, and a short story is a storm, then a poem is a flash of lightning. See?

And poetry is musical, in a sense, it has its own technical language for composition; meter, feet, iambs and trochees and quatrains and enjambement etc. much like musical bars and quavers and octaves. And the joy is in the music of the language, somewhat, poetry should be read out loud, but of course it's literature so it's about the meeting of sound and content, sense impressions and ideas ...

>> No.19082554

>>19082532
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/22653/anyone-lived-in-a-pretty-how-town
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/49493/i-carry-your-heart-with-mei-carry-it-in
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48419/this-be-the-verse
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/42891/stopping-by-woods-on-a-snowy-evening
https://poets.org/poem/do-not-go-gentle-good-night
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48860/the-raven
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/44212/the-love-song-of-j-alfred-prufrock

Some poems to consider. Read out loud.

>> No.19082560

>>19082506
You could say the same thing of painting, and you'd be just as right (i.e. just as wrong). It's a different artform.

OP, what you should try to get out of the poem. Some poems are narrative, but many aren't. In general you should be looking for some kind of aesthetic contemplation and thematic issues that are brought up in ways that might initially seem unexpected.

>> No.19082568

>>19082560
>OP, what you should try to get out of the poem
*What you should try to get out of a poem depends on the poem

>> No.19082630

>>19082469
Keep in mind poetry is a genre in itself and try not to read it like a novel, a short story or a play. The only way to learn to read poetry is to actually start reading it, little by little you'll understand that each poetic form or verse means a poem has to be read a certain way –or at least they will serve as hints on how to read the poem.
I'd recommend you read some of the more canonical writers in your language out loud. That's how I started out.

>> No.19082650

>>19082532
I've read some as a kid in English and Spanish class and just meh about all of it.

But now that I think about it, Desiderata was a poem I read recently that I felt satisfied with.

>> No.19082659

>>19082506
>>19082523
Music is a completely different experience to literature and poetry. Music is an inherently sensual thing; language is not. The basic building blocks of each form are so completely different it's absurd and ignorant to assume one is greater than the other or anything like that. They are simply different, in the same way a painting is not a sculpture or a piece of music or a novel or a poem.

It can be very difficult to create any sort of sensuality with language, and that is the art of it. Language is after all a common place thing in a way none of the other arts really are. We do not have idle chatter or business meetings communicated via music or painting. Language is a functional thing, often all about ideas and generalisations, nothing sensual. To take this thing and create a piece of art that transports you to another reality, that is the art of language and poetry.

I can't remember who said it, but they said, roughly, Poetry is the art of remembering. That is to say, to remember what we never pay attention to. If you know a little of semiotics you'll know that in our day to day life, using language as we do, we take the symbols of our communication for granted; a chair is a chair, a brush a brush, our neighbour our neighbour. Over time we stop seeing anything but the symbol, the symbol replaces the thing itself, and in doing so we pay no attention to the details of the thing. Art opens us up to seeing symbols in new ways and taking us in to new realities through them.

>> No.19082666

>>19082532
>If a novel is the change from sunshine to storms and back again, and a short story is a storm, then a poem is a flash of lightning. See?

Makes sense, even though I sort of kinda knew it was this deep down. I know what you're saying

As for poetry being musical, I can't say I disagree but music is the form I'd rather hear that poetry.

Also remembered the poem Ozymandias, which was also another poem that moved me fairly recently.

>> No.19082667

>>19082659
Just read lyrics then

>> No.19082692

>>19082659
Pretty compelling, desu. This post genuinely made me consider unironically reading some more poetry.

>> No.19082702

>>19082650
Poets generally zero in on specific moments and scenes to reflect on them, or tell narratives as vehicles for reflection.
Don't look for a story or characters, look for emotion. Don't look for something easy, look for something to learn. This may be alot easier if you weren't raised on film and thus conditioned to expect narratives in everything.
In many ways, poetry is language at its most powerful; it's less the all-encompassing flames of passion that engulf everything around them and more of the blue flame in a blowtorch. It's about concentrated energy. It's also the hardest general form to write.

>> No.19082709

>>19082667
Lyrics have no musicality, most of the time, as they are there to furnish melodies. Poetry is written with music inherent in its composition.

>> No.19082725

>>19082554
First poem was pretty comfy. Enjoyed it more than I thought. You fags might have single handedly convinced me to get into poetry lol

>> No.19082727
File: 108 KB, 1080x1624, 2A3C335C-47EC-48F6-AF7D-4285118CD347.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19082727

>>19082469
Anon, have you ever felt anything you couldn’t describe?

>> No.19082737

>>19082727
Yes, specifically nostalgia as an example

>> No.19082755

>>19082666
>As for poetry being musical, I can't say I disagree but music is the form I'd rather hear that poetry
That's like saying "as for painting being visually appealing, i don't disagree but i'd rather look at a film."
Just read some goddamn poetry. Read 5-7 collections and you'll feel it out by the time you're 18.

I know you're self aware but this thread reeks of youthful idiocy. Your ideas about what poetry even is and is supposed to do are so hilariously offbase and underdeveloped that it merits no real response.

>> No.19082762

>>19082532
>poetry should be read out loud
The single best advice someone can give to you.
Then, you can begin to "get it".

>> No.19082835
File: 276 KB, 1624x1080, 17E8CBE1-4169-4EA6-91DF-11B7926631E5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19082835

>>19082737
Poetry attempts to describe, and present through artifice, the concrete universal, or that which is simultaneously immediate and ineffable. A “poem” that does not do this is no poem.

>> No.19082878

>>19082709
This is facts:

Hopelessly drift in the eyes of the ghost again
Down on my knees and my hands in the air again
Pushing my face in the memory of you again
But I never know if it's real
Never know how I wanted to feel
Never quite said what I wanted to say to you
Never quite managed the words to explain to you
Never quite knew how to make them believable
And now the time has gone
Another time undone
Never quite said what I wanted to say to you
Never quite managed the words to explain to you
Never quite knew how to make them believable
And now the time has gone
Another time undone
Hopelessly fighting the devil futility
Feeling the monster climb deeper inside of me
Feeling him gnawing my heart away hungrily
I'll never lose this pain
Never dream of you again

Is this a good poem? Of course not. It's terribly written, almost objectively so. When paired with the instrumental and Robert Smith's vocal style most of it sound great. Herein lies the secret of music: The language and words don't have to be well crafted, the singer has to be "good" (whatever that means).
That song - Untitled, by The Cure - is incredible. Put those down in a writer's workshop and you'll be laughed at. The language isn't beautiful. It's cliche, it's too expository, it's too emotionless, it's too simpleton's diary-ish. When sang by Smith, the emotion gets injected.

Take something like Hopkins's Carrion Comfort:

Not, I'll not, carrion comfort, Despair, not feast on thee;
Not untwist — slack they may be — these last strands of man
In me or, most weary, cry I can no more. I can;
Can something, hope, wish day come, not choose not to be.

Sure it's more difficult, but the language is beautiful, the metaphor does so much to explain his mental state: despairing is compared to carrion comfort, the comfort of feeding on the dead/hopeless, and to anyone who can empathize with the comfort despair gives you, that's incredibly powerful. But Hopkins talks about suicide ideation and desperately trying to grasp at any saving grace or plan of action, however aimless it is: "not...cry i can no more. I can; can something..."
How emotional is that? Then, when the speaker tries to convince himself to not kill himself (taking an action) he can only do so with a double-negative, not an action, but a non-action.
I won't do every line of the poem. But hopkins's verse is superior to any of those lyrics. The mental picture given of the speaker is fuller and more compelling, the language is stunning, it's far more original despite being written over a century before the cure was around, and it's more evocative. Hopkins does much more with the same amount of words - that is what poetry does.

>> No.19082882

>>19082878
Then why is the greatest poem a song??
https://youtu.be/M0lya8HfDs0

>> No.19082896

>>19082882
Kek

>> No.19082904

>>19082896
I'm not joking anon, and you posted a song by The Cure as a piece of "great music" so I will not be listening to your opinions.

>> No.19082913

>>19082755
I've read a lot of books and I love reading like you have no idea but I gotta admit I've always had a prejudice towards poetry. Hence the existence of this thread. Of fucking course its gonna reek of idiocy, you pretentious fucking tryhard. Just ordered a robert frost collection cause out of all the ones the other anon >>19082554
showed me, it was the one that really grabbed at me the most. So congrats on red pilling me but no thanks to you

>> No.19082919

>>19082904
Disintegration is the best breakup album of all time and you wouldn't know poetry from a cabbage so lick the shit out of my hemroidal ass you fifteen year old braindead faggot

>> No.19082938

Morrissey is the only poet-singer in rock music. Some traditional folk songs are really poems.

>> No.19082949

>>19082913
>he likes robert frost
FUCKING KEK

>> No.19082962

>>19082919
Okay i love this

>> No.19082968

>>19082949
Neck yourself, you gatekeeping asshole-eating faggot. I'll do what I want. I'll buy 10 robert frost books just to spite you so suck my dick

>> No.19082978

>>19082968
This is just dipshit rube cope

>> No.19082980

>>19082913
Robert Frost is amazing. You should consider getting some sort of compendium of poetry though so that you can sample many things, something like the Norton book of poetry will have all the great poets in their and a selection of their famous poems.

>> No.19082982

>>19082878
>>19082919
Not posting best The Cure:
"I miss the kiss of treachery"

>> No.19082988

>>19082968
>threatening to spend 100+ dollars on shit frost poetry even though there are one collection's worth of decent poems scattered through 10
>muh gatekeeping
>you don't control what i like!!!!!!!
12 year old detected, get out of 4chan then hang yourself in the woods

>> No.19082998

>>19082913
>>19082980
>You should consider getting some sort of compendium of poetry though so that you can sample many things, something like the Norton book of poetry will have all the great poets in their and a selection of their famous poems.
This is some solid advice here, anon.
With this and reading out loud if you still don't acquire an appreciation for this kind of thing, give up. Poetry is just not for you. Kek

>> No.19083009

>>19082978
Kek, unfortunately true
>>19082982
Be nice

>> No.19083043

>>19082988
You're that mongoloid who always talks about obscure horseshit as if that gave you any sort of value, aren't you? Kek seethe and cope, you absolute fucking zero of a human

>> No.19083044

For me, poetry is all about the 'tiny things that touch truly'...

A certain turn of phrase or a certain way of putting something will resonate with me and I'll be really pleased with how my mind responded to these written words.

So yes, reading poetry is a deeply personal experience that is mostly rooted in how much emotional depth you have.

Empathy is your greatest tool for reading poetry.

>> No.19083050

>>19082980
Will do, anon. Thanks for the insight. Definitely considering poetry a lot differently

>> No.19083106

>>19083043
What are you talking about? I fucking hate mongoloids.
I did post some "obscure" things in a stack thread 3ish weeks ago but havent popped in recently. I get tired of dipshittery. Threads like these are fun to muck up

>> No.19083119

>>19082469
Put a gun in your mouth

>> No.19083149

Check this analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc9yLJORWNI

>> No.19083247

>>19083149
I regret watching this video. Terrible. Boring teacher. His reading was dull and there was no analysis, he just reads the biography from the back of the book and talks about how wild it is that Eliot was born across two centuries. Zero insight. Mundane. Like a high school lesson.

>> No.19083258

>>19083247
It is a hs lesson. There are several parts.
I’m guessing you are in hs so you hate teachers etc.
This teacher is good enough for this poem. Check out the rest of the vids.

>> No.19083725

Shall I compare thee to a summers eve
Thou art more lovely and more temperate
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of may
And summers lease hath all too short a date

Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines
And often is his gold complexion dimmed
And every fair from fair sometime declines
By chance; or nature changing course , untrimmed

But thy eternal summer shall not fade
Nor lose possession of that fair thou owest
Nor shall death drag thou wonderst in his shade
When in eternal lines to time thou growest

So long as men can breathe or eyes can see
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee

>> No.19083754

>>19082469
sauce for the pic?

>> No.19083848

Bump

>> No.19083871

>>19082506
Considering that in all likelihood music precedes poetry, you're fucking retarded

>> No.19083917

>>19082469
The purpose is to "catch the vibes", as the zoomers would say

>> No.19083961

>>19082980
It might be that I'm just not big into poetry, but if so then it applies even more strongly to the average poetry-let, but it takes a bit of time to immerse myself in a particular poet. I feel like if someone who's not very poetry literate jumps around a lot they won't develop the sense to engage with poetry properly