/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19075389]

>the book that bookbroke /lit/

[Anonymous No.19075400]

Rip fuzzy thoughts.

[Anonymous No.19075408]

>>19075400
?

[Anonymous No.19075422]

>>19075389
>reading retarded books written by “academics”
Shiggy

[Anonymous No.19075495]

>>19075389
My issue with anti-natalism is that it
1) Assumes that non-existence is inherently preferable to a life with hardship
2) Downplays the importance of one's own choice and perspective when it comes to the quality of their life (IE if your life has suffering then it is better if you didn't exist than trying to make it better for yourself)

It's a useful philosophy for making one think about why they would want to have kids, but like most philosophies those who tout it online tend to be teenagers without a great understanding of life.

[Anonymous No.19075601]

>>19075389
>thinks spooks like morals, harm, etc mean anything in the face of more than a billion years of evolution.
ngmi

[Anonymous No.19075741]

>>19075495
they're hedonists what do you expect.

[Anonymous No.19075749]

>>19075389
Better to have never been*

[Anonymous No.19075784]

>>19075495
The issue here is that when you talk about choice, by giving birth you create a being who has been denied choice on a fundamental level. If he chooses that his life is not worth living, it will be after a large amount of suffering and trauma, and he will be forced to undergo the trauma of attempting suicide (something I've noticed natalists tend to make light of). Basically to give someone the choice that you are talking about, you have to lock them into the biology of life and suffering.

[Anonymous No.19075788]

>>19075389
kys op

[Anonymous No.19075795]

>>19075601
A billion years of evolution means nothing either. You have no obligation to follow your biological imperatives. You will suffer if you don't, but you have no duty.

[Anonymous No.19075915]

>>19075784
>If he chooses that his life is not worth living, it will be after a large amount of suffering and trauma
This is why I think anti-natalism is at least useful as a thought exercise about why one should have kids. I personally believe one should only have kids when they can be reasonably sure of giving them a sure chance at a happy life (be able to clothe/feed them and being empathetic towards them as the main two factors towards that)

>and he will be forced to undergo the trauma of attempting suicide (something I've noticed natalists tend to make light of).
I'd still argue that being able to choose how they respond to suffering, whether it makes them come out better or worse, is better than never getting to have a "You" in the first place because you're nonexistent.

[Anonymous No.19075958]

>>19075915
>I personally believe one should only have kids when they can be reasonably sure of giving them a sure chance at a happy life
Yeah you can give them a chance, but that's it. They could still end up living a life of tremendous suffering and misery (disease, abduction, torture, etc.); it's not something you actually have any real control over.
>I'd still argue that being able to choose how they respond to suffering, whether it makes them come out better or worse, is better than never getting to have a "You" in the first place because you're nonexistent.
People don't have a state of nonexistence and there are no hypothetical people. There are only people that exist. If someone never exists, then nothing was lost. Things can only be lost, things can only be better or worse if you are alive, and to be born is not a choice, it's to be forced to suffer until you either find a way to cope with out or you endure sufficient trauma to break your biological imperative and kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.19075966]

>>19075784
How can you give a choice to someone who does not exist? Conceptual people aren't people any more than the people in your dreams, in fact less so. Anti-natalism is inherently flawed, as such a perspective is impossible to have.

[Anonymous No.19075975]

>>19075966
>How can you give a choice to someone who does not exist?
That's the entire problem, idiot. Coming into existence is not a choice. You are locked into the prison of suffering. There can never be a choice about it. You only get the choice of whether you want to murder yourself or not.

[Anonymous No.19075993]

free will did not exist. nobody "consents" to being born just as nobody consents to becoming a parent. everything just happens and yes it is almost entirely "bad"

[Anonymous No.19076000]

>>19075958
>it's to be forced to suffer until you either find a way to cope with out or you endure sufficient trauma to break your biological imperative and kill yourself.
Completely disagree. There's much more to life than suffering, and those reasons for living are more than just a cope to those who find them.
>I think I could stand anything, any suffering, only to be able to say and to repeat to myself every moment, 'I exist.' In thousands of agonies -- I exist. I'm tormented on the rack -- but I exist! Though I sit alone in a pillar -- I exist! I see the sun, and if I don't see the sun, I know it's there. And there's a whole life in that, in knowing that the sun is there.

[Anonymous No.19076010]

>>19076000
>Completely disagree. There's much more to life than suffering,
Perhaps you've found that. Perhaps your children won't. The one thing that can be assured in a life is that it will suffer. That's the only thing that can be guaranteed to a child.

[Anonymous No.19076011]

The Book that can fix /lit/.

[Anonymous No.19076016]

>>19075495
you did not read the book

[Anonymous No.19076023]

>>19076000
>I'm tormented on the rack -- but I exist!
The glory of natalism.

[Anonymous No.19076039]

>>19075784
>by giving birth you create a being who has been denied choice on a fundamental level
All souls choose to incarnate. If you think that this is not the case, you're simply in a state of forgetfulness.

[Anonymous No.19076042]

>>19075389
Sam Harris could debunk anti natalism lmao

[Anonymous No.19076055]

>>19075993
elaborate

[Anonymous No.19076066]

>>19076042
Kek, just no, he indeed did an interview with Benatar and was left speechless and without argument in the end.

[Anonymous No.19076087]

>>19076055
No.

[Anonymous No.19076115]

>>19076087
please?

[Anonymous No.19076257]

>>19075975
You shouldn't be able to murder yourself either.

[Anonymous No.19076269]

The main issue I have with anti-natalism is its inherent assumption that life is simply bad and that the suffering of life is a bad thing. If you actually believe in any sort of meaning, even that which is subjective, or materialistic, this is not the case. All anti-natalists should just let their physical processes take their due course, and stop spreading this life-destroying virus rooted in nihilism.

[Anonymous No.19076281]

>>19076023
This is glory.

[Anonymous No.19076294]

This is now an Exotic Bully thread