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/lit/ - Literature

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19065822 No.19065822[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Is it even possible to produce great art that will be appreciated during the collapse of a civilization?

>> No.19065826
File: 410 KB, 934x898, 1620871713840.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19065826

It seems as though it's completely hopeless to produce anything meaningful when society does not actually value meaning at all

>> No.19065845

>>19065826
that image is stupid. the scales are obviously representative of the shackles imposed on women by beauty standards

>> No.19065848

>>19065822
I've been thinking this for ages. The answer is: no, it's not worthwhile. However, you can always expect that in the future your work will be rediscovered somehow.

>> No.19065858

>>19065822
>collapse of a civilization?
You don’t read much history, do ya?

>pic
They’re going to push them out in two weeks, I assume.

>> No.19065859

>>19065845
>the scales are obviously representative of the shackles
Why yes this banana here clearly represents an apple

>> No.19065863

>>19065845
Weak bait

>> No.19065884

>>19065845
Why not burn fashion magazines with airbrushed models or even burn their bras?

>> No.19065888

>>19065858
Explain what part of western civilisation doesn't look in serious decline right now.

>> No.19065924

>>19065888
Like capitalism, “civilization” goes through cycles of “collapse”. Unfortunately it’s been repeatedly reassembled with barely anything learned as to how rotten they are. Your attachment to this ephemeral “western” one shows just how unaware you are of how rotten it has been. Look at cracks it’s brought upon itself, upon us all?
Clown world indeed.

>> No.19065938
File: 440 KB, 500x626, lost_hope.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19065938

>>19065822
>>19065826
>>19065848
>The answer is: no, it's not worthwhile.
Same conclusion. This is probably the worst time for art in history. Such a shame because art is the only meaningful thing in my life and as things stand it can be nothing but a hobby. People are so hollow inside that even if someone wrote the ultimate masterpiece they'd treat it like yet another entertainment snack. They're the proverbial swine who trample the pearls you'd throw at them.

>> No.19065943

WATCH OUT, ANYONE WHO'S TALL!
MEXES, AREN'T YOU GLAD YOU'RE SMALL?

>> No.19065947

>>19065924
What is happening is unprecedented. You are right that history is cyclical but the framework of today enables developments that were impossible before. Perhaps we will go through more cycles but it will be a completely different, global history. The world as it's been since the dawn of man is definitely going to be over.

>> No.19065966

>>19065822
i think regardless of the surrounding circumstances, it's always worth trying to make great art. maybe especially when the world you send it into is falling apart

>> No.19065972

>>19065822
no, the entire publishing industry and elite institutions of discourse are rapidly being taken over and subverted.

https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/ya-twitters-victims-and-critics-speak

https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1334565184443211777

>> No.19065992

>>19065947
There’s nothing unprecedented about this. Climate migration will be unprecedented. That’s the real crisis coming. Don’t mourn a “civilization”. Murderous work camps kept together with lies is all they.
(I should be asleep, but I have too much caffeine in me)

>> No.19065997

>>19065966
I know it sounds like a furbaby redditor thing to say but sometimes I think I should get a bunch of animals and try to make those happy instead of trying to do shit for people and thinking I should have a role in "society". I genuinely feel I'd be a lot happier if I just gave up on humanity and spent my years on plants and animals.

>> No.19066004

>>19065992
>There’s nothing unprecedented about this.
I am replying to you from a whole another continent away, how is the internet not unprecedented? Mass media have changed the collective perception if reality in a way that never happened before.

>> No.19066019

>>19065997
i don't think that's an unreasonable notion to have. every day i dwell on the idea of checking out permanently. but even with that mindset, i still think art is valuable, and your unique ideas are worth expressing and putting out into the world, in whatever capacity that may be.

>> No.19066024
File: 22 KB, 480x600, FF3FFC3D-1335-4AE8-9892-9D5D9A7A0353.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066024

>People are so hollow inside that even if someone wrote the ultimate masterpiece they'd treat it like yet another entertainment snack. They're the proverbial swine who trample the pearls you'd throw at them.

>> No.19066025

>>19065992
>dont mourn a civilization
I happen to live in one, though. I'd prefer not to live through a total collapse

>> No.19066030

>>19066004
Mass migration has happened before, but we ain’t seen nothing yet.

>> No.19066034

>>19065924
>Your attachment to this ephemeral “western” one shows just how unaware you are of how rotten it has been
Yeah I'm attached to western civilisation because despite being told my demographic is the root of the world's evil and increasingly getting replaced, this is
still my home and I don't have another one. Of course I'm attached to the people and the culture.

>> No.19066038
File: 82 KB, 307x475, 224FA4D7-F0D7-4294-928C-FC016E324291.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066038

>>19066025
Here’s what I mean. (Pictured)
It was always far better to live outside of these beasts.

>> No.19066039

>>19065924
Based Spenglerian butterfly.

>> No.19066047

>>19066024
You sure told me anon, whatever that meant.

>> No.19066088

>>19066019
>even with that mindset, i still think art is valuable, and your unique ideas are worth expressing and putting out into the world
I think not only it's useless but also deleterious because you are contributing to the very popular idea that "true" artists will always be there, churning out valuable work, all for no reward whatsoever, while wageslaving, like some sort of martyr when in reality all the great works of art of the past came from a position of comfort and stability if not luxury. People really detest hearing this because it shows them the ultimate truth that if you don't water the flowers you won't get any flowers. No, they want the flower to somehow water itself and trim its own leaves and trying to be this for the entitled brat-consumers actually makes them right.

>> No.19066172

>>19066088
>all the great works of art of the past came from a position of comfort and stability if not luxury
there are plenty of examples of great writers who produced their works in hardship. where does your argument lead to? that art just shouldn't be produced because times are tough? i disagree with that entirely

>> No.19066279

>>19066172
No, I am not saying that artists should not produce in times of hardship. I aam saying that entertaining the narrative that they should be expected to is what is killing the arts. In the end what is happening is that talent will be stuck wage slaving while a bunch of rich kids get awards for having a vagina. If you look to give something to posterity enjoy the idea of your work getting cancelled or reshaped by the MiniTrue.

>> No.19066319

>>19066279
>I aam saying that entertaining the narrative that they should be expected to is what is killing the arts
i agree with that, i don't think anyone should feel compelled. i was meaning people feeling dissuaded by that atmosphere and culture of hostility, i think it's a shame that it would stifle creativity and would hope that if an artist has something that they really want to create and put out there, that they will. that's my plan for myself at least. but of course that's up to the individual

>> No.19066348

>>19066319
I think there's a point in denying the very best you can give to a hostile culture that doesn't value anything. See it like this: workers go on strike when the conditions of their work get unfair or unreasonable. The act of producing something "for the art" is praiseworthy of course but it shouldn't be treated as a condition for art to exist. You have this narrative where someone can have dedicated years and years to painting obsessively, acquiring skills, trying to put his work out there... as soon as he laments this lack of results people immediately say "you're not a true artist, you're not supposed to 'chase attention', awards, money, etc. you should just do things for the art", like if you'd like to make barely enough money to sustain yourself in poverty you're not a real artist, not truly passionate about your work, in a world where total hacks make millions. The entitlement of people in this aspect of life is plain sadistic, and I think they shouldn't be given anything as long as they reason this way.

>> No.19066353

>>19066348
i can see where you're coming from

>> No.19066380

>>19065826
if these were computer printers i would understand

>> No.19066386

>>19065822
Thank god the world actually exists índependently from you neurotic muttcucks lol.

>> No.19066391
File: 180 KB, 860x838, A02EE1FC-8D35-48F7-868A-EBED2DF3982B.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066391

>>19065822
>Is it even possible to produce great art that will be appreciated during the collapse of a civilization?

>> No.19066402

take the vax chud

>> No.19066405
File: 8 KB, 212x238, 4102171F-5068-452F-914A-F148A343A804.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066405

>>19065822
>>Is it even possible to produce great art that will be appreciated during the collapse of a civilization?

>> No.19066421

Imagine slaving away after you come back from work so that the wojak posting retards above can download your shit for free and use it to fill their worthless lives. Who the fuck would ever want to be so cucked? Only a literal cuck would do this.

>> No.19066427

>>19066391
>>19066405
Havus sexus incellius.

>> No.19066431
File: 75 KB, 390x391, 3838648A-0EE6-49B7-A6B4-8D9D00ABE579.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066431

>>19066427
>Havus sexus incellius.

>> No.19066435
File: 125 KB, 811x1049, CC7B5D42-7445-42ED-9DCB-AB19788A27C7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066435

>>19066427
>>Havus sexus incellius.

>> No.19066437
File: 136 KB, 434x652, 4EE67BE3-ABAC-4631-9260-7F92F3D82E3B.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066437

>>19066427
>>>Havus sexus incellius.

>> No.19066442
File: 92 KB, 424x525, 5539E60D-C5BB-48AE-A143-79CA10F3CA63.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066442

>>19066427
>>>>Havus sexus incellius.

>> No.19066446

>>19066421
cry about your shitty pol thread more inceloid

>> No.19066447

>>19065924
Holy shit butters took the /trad/pill, never thought I'd see the day

>> No.19066448

>>19066427
Kill yourself

>> No.19066495

>>19065826
>fatass americans means that civilization is collapsing
In a sense yes, but probably not in the way you intend.

>> No.19066500

>>19065845
Makeup, jewelry, lipstick, etc. would be good representatives of shackles of beauty standards. A scale is not.

>> No.19066507

>>19065859
The Fruit of Knowledge was a fig.

>> No.19066533

>>19066034
Just have sex and buy a McMansion. All the shit you just said is for incels.

>> No.19066532

>>19065822
It’s still worth it.
Not for your contemporaries but for posterity.
Write an honest memoir of our times so future generations can understand how it felt to live under Kali Yuga (our times won’t be truly understood until we can look back with the benefit of hindsight).

>> No.19066537

>>19065822
>civilizational collapse
this isn't the bronze age
shit bad faith thread

>> No.19066542
File: 158 KB, 1059x1497, page_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066542

>>19066532
>Not for your contemporaries but for posterity.
lol

>> No.19066547

>non-white in my country so civil ending
what is your civ if not decades of raping, burning, killing, enslaving?
corps are balls-deep in you, while all you reee about is DAE IMMIGRANTS BAD???
not only you're not actually helping, chances is you'd be the one to exploit, steal, and have no empathy for anyone but your sorry fag ass.
your civ is collapsing? good.

>> No.19066550

>>19066427
based
>>19066431
>>19066435
>>19066437
>>19066442
>>19066448
kys genetic dead-ends

>> No.19066553

>>19066542
The pic you posted is relevant in one (1) country in the world.

>> No.19066554

discord is leaking today

>> No.19066560

>>19066553
0

>> No.19066561

>>19066553
this is happening all over Europe as well, there will be no posterity

>> No.19066570

>>19065822
>Thinking america collasped because of blacks and latinos
>doesn't realize Asians and Jews dominate every high end field and now have outpaced white people
silly goy

>> No.19066573

>>19065884
What makes smashing the scales any less of a reasonable choice than the ones you've listed?

>> No.19066582

Yes. It’s actually more necessary but it is qualitatively different. You can see Jean Gebser and Martin Heidegger for specifics.

>> No.19066595

>>19065822
"Civilization" isn't "collapsing", also DEFINE "civilization" and "collapse". Faggot.

>> No.19066675

>>19066595
>Civilization
Walking down the street without getting stabbed.
>Collapse
Getting stabbed walking down the street

>> No.19066712

>>19066675
100% of the times I've walked down the street I haven't been stabbed. This fact is the reality for 99% of the population who makes up civilization. Where's the collapse?

>> No.19066716

>>19066561
>this is happening all over Europe as well
False

>> No.19066740
File: 867 KB, 1242x1228, 1608074677793.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066740

In the collapsed civilization, the one-man bookbinder is king.

>> No.19066746

>>19066712
https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/02/london-onlookers-scream-as-man-chased-and-stabbed-in-hyde-park-by-gang-with-machetes-14694218/

>> No.19066759

>>19066675
>>19066746
Do you really think that people weren't getting stabbed in the street in the 1900s? Fucking retard.

>> No.19066764

>>19066034
>RePLAcEd

>> No.19066769

>>19066746
he was probably a rapist

>> No.19066787

>>19066746
There's no point arguing, these people cheer on the things you're talking about.

>> No.19066790

>>19066787
No I want to ban knives

>> No.19066809
File: 23 KB, 264x210, 1614217296579.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19066809

>/lit/ - Literature

>> No.19066924

>>19066809
This. That said, how are there people defending the OP image? The job market is fucked as it is.

>> No.19066957

>>19066924
Why do you think the parties flipped? Reps are now the party of the working class. Dems are the party of the technocratic and bureaucratic classes who don't have to compete with these people for jobs. Still have to compete for housing though.

>> No.19066973

>>19066547
>what is your civ if not decades of raping, burning, killing, enslaving?
far better than any other in history
>corps are balls-deep in you, while all you reee about is DAE IMMIGRANTS BAD???
pro tip: they're the same thing, they're funnelling people in to replace native populations because it's profitable, that doesn't make it wrong for people to want to keep their homes for their own people
you wouldn't apply these same standards to any other race though, so see you in the gas chamber faggot

>> No.19066989

>>19066924
Technological shifts always fuck over the job market in short run. We're moving towards a model of high skill remote workers being serviced by armies of deliverypersons. This will dislocate lots of people who were adjacent to the old economies of office workers commuting into urban centers, people who did easily automated or offshored work, etc. I have to imagine that eventually the hordes of delivery jobs will give rise to their own logistical managerial bureaucracy as bad as the corporate offices had been and that will bring back a lot of middle class sinecure work.

>> No.19067049

>>19066989
Great analysis. There are people in San Francisco who will fill your fridge for you.
I'll probably become homeless before I do Uber or Amazon Fresh or whatever. But thats easy to say now while I'm hanging on to my comfy office job.

>> No.19067071

>>19065822
No. Great art only comes out of very stagnant societies where everything is as it was in your grandpappy's time. Scary change makes art dry up.

>> No.19067074

>>19066924
>That said, how are there people defending the OP image?

They're consumerist shills. It's easy to spot them if you suggest limiting/ending migration because their reaction will be similar to that of a death-threat -- which it is for the system they promote, but they've mistaken their promotion as "humanistic" and not consumer-centric.

>> No.19067103

>>19065992
Climate migration is only a problem because whites are utter retards who will let people in. My hope is that they cease to be a majority in Europe and America well before that happens so people with spines will be able to do what needs to be done. I don’t think you’ll see climate migration if people are being shot at when they try to cross the border, like what happens nowadays if they try to get into Turkey. It’s very inhumane and I do see it as tragic but when faced with a cataclysm like climate change it’ll be the only solution.

>> No.19067119

Picasso painted during the world war. He was already famous though.

>> No.19067152

>>19065822
(Pic related). Fake news. There are no migrants packed under Texas bridge.

>> No.19067155

>>19066746
lol every single article about the stabbings makes zero mention of the nationality or ethnicity of the perps. It's kind of weird given that my country normally says it and they're always what you'd expect.

>> No.19067164

>>19067119
Picasso was fucking trash lol holy shit dilate please

>> No.19067168

>>19067152
>There are no migrants packed under Texas bridge.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/more-10-000-migrants-packed-under-texas-bridge-number-still-n1279423

>> No.19067176

>>19067103
>utter retards who will let people in.
the people who push for this don't like to be called white

>> No.19067186

>>19067152
There have always been immigrants under the Texan bridge comrade.

>> No.19067187

>>19066790
knives don't kill people people using knives to kill people kill people, if they need a weapon the';ll fabricate one, if it's not knives they'll sharpen sticks.

>> No.19067207

>>19067176
The people who vote for this are proud of not being racist.

>> No.19067222

>>19067207
Who controls the propaganda that is fed to these unthinking cattle?

>> No.19067228

>>19066447
?
The word “trad” has been misused by rightwing liberals and I’m not claiming it. I stand for various ways of life that some “trad” would like though. But it’s very “Leftwing” communal and rejection of nationalism and modern racist idealism that panic about the wrong things when they see mass migration.

>>19067103
>because whites are utter retards who will let people in
There is no “in” or out of it. They’re fools for allowing the environment get this bad for short term profits. Now they take advantage of the butthurt and confusion to make more profits still. They think they’re so clever.
The only solution is the ending of the systems that brought this on is all.

>> No.19067268

>>19067228
>they
you're white too my tranny friend

>> No.19067273

>>19067222
Who controls you as the bogeyman they must demonstrate their virtuepolitik against?