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/lit/ - Literature

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19049010 No.19049010[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

For the last fucking time, you cannot be a Christian and a communist/socialist

>> No.19049014

For the last fucking time, you cannot be a Christian and a capitalist

>> No.19049020

Christian and anprim?

>> No.19049023

>>19049010
How can you be a Christian and be anything besides a socialist? You think Jesus would have been a free market capitalist?

>> No.19049045
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19049045

>/lit/ - Literature

>> No.19049049

>>19049014
>>19049023
Christians ought to reject both capitalism and socialism/communism
>>19049020
That would be a heresy

>> No.19049051

>>19049023
doing nice things for socialism means you care about the wellbeing of other people. Obviously OP means that if you are a christian and break bread with others in a way that seems socialist it's actually TO SAVE YOUR SOUL FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION AND THE PLEASURE YOU GET FROM HELPING OTHERS IS A PERPETUATION OF ORIGINAL SIN YOU DISGUSTING PERVERSE PIG

>> No.19049058

>>19049049
>That would be a heresy
why

>> No.19049079

>>19049058
any form of Anarchism is inherently atheist

>> No.19049089

>>19049010
>They shared their material blessings with each other as brothers and sisters had need
>They sold their real estate and possessions to meet the needs of others
>The apostles distributed to each in need
>They met together as an entire group in the temple as well as eating together as households or from house to house
Maybe try reading the bible before you make shitty midwit bait threads about christianity faggot.

>> No.19049097

>>19049014
Divinely based and inspired.

>> No.19049105

>>19049089
read Divini Redemptoris

>> No.19049106
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19049106

>>19049010
It's not that one CAN'T, it's your belief that you shouldn't. Different things but people always claim the former because it sounds better.

>> No.19049122

>>19049105
>Believing the earthly pope more than the inspired word of God.
Why are Catholics considered Christian again?

>> No.19049123

Early Christians lived in small communes without private property. That's neither communism or capitalism, but it's very close to some forms of anarchism.

>> No.19049126

>>19049089
Keywords: "In Need," not "I Want" - there's a crucial difference based on arbitrarian idealism. Can you spot it?

>> No.19049145

>>19049023
>You think Jesus would have been a free market capitalist?
yes, because he would give of his own free will rather than it being a federal mandate.

>> No.19049151

>>19049123
Sort of anarcho communist no? They were also pacifists

>> No.19049154 [DELETED] 

>>19049145
So Jesus would have also been against legislating Christian morality. Jesus as pro-life that would make some Bible thumpers blow a gasket

>> No.19049159

>>19049122
Prots get the rope. Stop larping as Christian and accept you're an atheist or a gnostic.

>> No.19049168

>>19049145
So Jesus would have also been against legislating Christian morality. Jesus as pro-choice that would make some Bible thumpers blow a gasket

>> No.19049214

>>19049145
>free will rather than it being a federal mandate.
Render unto Caesar sweatie

>> No.19049221

>>19049159
>[violent sand noises]
Christ tried to teach you people but apparently you can't read

>> No.19049259

>>19049010
Don’t validate them by calling them Communists/socialists.
Call them what they are, which is spiteful, subhuman thieves

>> No.19049269

>>19049023
Thou shalt not steal
Retard

>> No.19049275

>>19049269
this made me laugh for some reason

>> No.19049276

>>19049269
>thou shalt not kill
>crusades
What does this mean?

>> No.19049283

>>19049168
outlawing sin vs mandating good deeds

>> No.19049291

>>19049283
So outlaw employers from taking more than their fair share of production. The church outlawed usury in the dark ages

>> No.19049293

>>19049010
You can, and I am

>> No.19049295

>>19049269
Capitalism is theft of many by the few you retard

>> No.19049302

Christian anarchists rise up!

>> No.19049314

>>19049010
Jesus Christ, and the Essenes, and the Hutterites, would like to disagree.

>> No.19049315

>>19049269
Ok so give back the OT to its owners and stop claiming to have superseded it. Oh wait, I think the church technically did this since you can't pray for their conversion. Kek

>> No.19049319

>>19049295
It's not theft you faggot, it's at most a bad exchange rate. Taxation is not theft either unless they forbid you leaving the country if you want to opt out of the system.

>> No.19049321

>>19049291
>>19049295
Just because you say your boss is robbing your doesn’t make it true

>> No.19049330

>>19049321
And just because you say abortion is murder doesn't mean it is

>> No.19049341

>>19049321
By what standard or definition are you going by when it comes to robbing/theft? What tradition or wrong doing? What legal system? What moral construct of ethics? Where do you get off saying what is and isn't theft but couching it in complete moral terms as if it isn't some kind of sociological construct? Get over yourself you wagecucked faggot ass troglodyte

>> No.19049342

>>19049319
Yeah exchange rate of making millions by stepping on the balls of people who can't afford health care or buy their home to raise a family.

>> No.19049350

>>19049159
Kek. Keep praying to your idols and groveling before your pedophilic clergymen heretic. I'll be over here communing DIRECTLY with god and praying for him to show mercy on you.

>> No.19049359

>>19049221
Based

>> No.19049364

>>19049295
You’re dumber than a box of dog turds

>> No.19049368
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19049368

>>19049295
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:33:03 No.19049276▶
>>>19049269
>>thou shalt not kill
>>crusades
>What does this mean?
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:34:45 No.19049283▶>>19049291
>>>19049168
>outlawing sin vs mandating good deeds
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:36:26 No.19049291▶>>19049321
>>>19049283
>So outlaw employers from taking more than their fair share of production. The church outlawed usury in the dark ages
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:36:35 No.19049293▶
>>>19049010 (OP)
>You can, and I am
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:37:21 No.19049295▶>>19049319 >>19049321
>>>19049269
>Capitalism is theft of many by the few you retard
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:38:20 No.19049302▶
>Christian anarchists rise up!
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:39:47 No.19049314▶
>>>19049010 (OP)
>Jesus Christ, and the Essenes, and the Hutterites, would like to disagree.
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:40:09 No.19049315▶
>>>19049269
>Ok so give back the OT to its owners and stop claiming to have superseded it. Oh wait, I think the church technically did this since you can't pray for their conversion. Kek
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:40:58 No.19049319▶
>>>19049295
>It's not theft you faggot, it's at most a bad exchange rate. Taxation is not theft either unless they forbid you leaving the country if you want to opt out of the system.
>>>
> Anonymous 09/14/21(Tue)21:41:26 No.19049321▶
>>>19049291
>>>19049295
>Just because you say your boss is robbing your doesn’t make it true

>> No.19049370

>>19049259
That just sounds like capitalists though

>> No.19049374
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19049374

>>19049089
This. I totally remember this new testament passage when i read it before this years. Also, reminder of the "rich young man".
>>19049159
Keep worshipping saturn without knowing about it. One thing i can say for sure, trads are not the brightest among us. And the brightest ones are evil.

>> No.19049377

Jesus wouldn't have cared about capitalism vs communism. Worrying about the distribution of Monopoly money is beneath him.

>> No.19049385

>>19049342
Profit from wage labor is not responsible for the losses of the working class in recent decades.

>> No.19049388

>>19049364
Keep coping

>"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

>> No.19049396

>>19049010
>>19049014
>>19049049
All three correct and false

>> No.19049397

>>19049385
Then what's the reason?

>> No.19049415

>>19049377
He cared about the suffering of proles

>> No.19049422

>>19049269
kek
(((camel)))

>> No.19049426

>>19049079

Explain how submission to humans, who aren't the divine authority of God and just other flawed beings like myself, is in any way good or righteous.

>> No.19049447

>>19049377
>Jesus wouldn't have cared about capitalism vs communism
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

>> No.19049452

>>19049447
This is Jesus cleaning up the church, not Jesus trying to change society's economic system

>> No.19049462
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19049462

Christian fascism is the true path
Please read Codreanu's 'For my Legionnaires'

>> No.19049467

>>19049447
That's because they were corrupting the spiritual with the material. He didn't go out to normal markets and cause a fuss. It's because they were harming their own and others' spirits.

>> No.19049471

>>19049452
You are purposely avoiding the implication that a temple run for profit is theft. "just cleaning up the church" is dubiously misreading or just plain retarded on your part.

So are you a liar or stupid or both?

>> No.19049478
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19049478

>>19049010
I will mantle Leo Naphta IRL and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop me, frog-poster.

>> No.19049484

>>19049214
I don’t think Jesus had a political program. All rich people go to hell though, he was quite clear on this.

>> No.19049492

>>19049471
My point is not that money lending is not theft, I agree it is. My point is that Jesus is concerned with his own house, with the church, not with trying to fix society which he knew was impossible

>> No.19049504

>>19049492
>be jesus
>realize I can't have a lasting impact on society
>give up
>hang myself on a cross
wtf lol

>> No.19049508

>>19049452
>>19049467
>"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:23–26

>The saying was a response to a young rich man who had asked Jesus what he needed to do to inherit eternal life. Jesus replied that he should keep the commandments, which the man replied that he had done so. Jesus responded, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." The young man became sad and was unwilling to do that. Jesus then spoke that response, leaving his disciples astonished.

How many greedy capitalist Christians today willing to follow Jesus in authentic way? In muttland all them them take sides with capitalists and the wealthy. If Jesus' concerns wasn't material then Christians should refrain from taking sides and if they're taking sides then it is clear that Jesus sided with the poor, whores and the needy.

>> No.19049513

>>19049504
What do you think "my kingdom is not of this world" means? Why do you think Jesus lived on the fringes of society and let himself be killed rather than becoming a warlord-prophet?

>> No.19049543

>>19049508
“Taking sides “ isn’t what sends you to hell. Being rich is. So you go to hell too, even though you disprove of the allowance your dad gives you.

>> No.19049557

>>19049508
Do you not understand the difference between a rich person giving away their stuff and communism?

>> No.19049596

>>19049452
>not Jesus trying to change society's economic system
>>19049467
>He didn't go out to normal markets and cause a fuss.

3 “At nine o’clock in the morning he was passing through the marketplace and saw some people standing around doing nothing. [...]
8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

---

Remember, minimum wage is socialism

>> No.19049617

>>19049596
It's not though, it's the most basic form of charity. Literally feudal lords did this kek

>> No.19049618

>>19049557
>communism: the state takes your stuff and shieet
>G*D: literally tells you to give your stuff otherwise you'll be damned forever

>> No.19049622

>>19049010
>For the last fucking time
I don't believe you.

>> No.19049623

>>19049618
>giving your stuff away
>taking rich peoples stuff
Are you still not grasping the difference

>> No.19049624

>>19049617
I was sarcastic

>> No.19049638

>>19049623
Think very, very hard

>> No.19049640

>>19049623
Both come from a place of authority threatening violence. I don’t see the difference.

>> No.19049648
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19049648

>>19049596
If you are going to be retarded (you probably can’t help it)

“ You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. ”

Picrelated, ultra capitalist Christ.

>> No.19049652

>>19049484
Marxism is just accelerated jesusism then. Although, the government did execute Jesus. Perhaps he was more political than you make him out to be.

>> No.19049658

>>19049640
Christ says "if you want to follow me then give away what you own"
Now imagine a commie saying that exact same thing. But they dont say that do they?

>> No.19049669

>>19049159
Very Christlike of you.

>> No.19049674

>>19049652
Marxism intends to make everyone rich, which would damn everyone to hell.

>> No.19049689

>>19049658
What is mutual aid for 500, Alex.

>> No.19049690

>>19049543
>>19049557
Capitalism is literally wealth hoarding and protects wealth hoarding. Jesus is pretty clear about rich people "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

>> No.19049692

>>19049596
Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a merchant who had a supply of merchandise and found a pearl. That merchant was prudent; he sold the merchandise and bought the single pearl for himself."

Stop pretending that Jesus cared about money. He didn't. The parable you cited is just that, a parable, and is not meant to be taken literally.

>> No.19049712
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19049712

>>19049692
No, Jesus is quite clear rich people burn in hell. Which is why he wasn’t a communist, who intend to make everyone rich

>> No.19049719

>>19049221
>>19049350
>>19049669
>heretic seething
I don't care
>>19049374
>Keep worshipping saturn
So you're saying I worship my ancestral god from 2000+ years ago? Based.

>> No.19049720

>>19049690
Jesus: give away your wealth
Commies: let's take the wealth of the rich

It is psychologically fascinating that you just cant understand the difference between these two things and you just keep repeating that wealth hoarding is bad as if I have even once contradicted this

>> No.19049721

>>19049692
>Stop pretending that Jesus cared about money
Yes he did, he rejected on money and wealth "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

And yet contemporary Christians do the opposite.

>> No.19049722

>>19049648
>Bible is not internally consistent
WHOA...who could have imagined...

>> No.19049730

>>19049722
It’s only an issue if you have completely retarded exegesis on both parables

>> No.19049736

>>19049720
*let's take the wealth of the rich who have been stealing from the poor so the poor can eat the bread with dignity

>> No.19049744

>>19049736
Jesus makes none of these qualifiers regarding the nature of the rich (such as your dad). Liberals do, however.

>> No.19049746

>>19049674
If we fill up hell does it freeze over? Seems like a good way to rebel. But doesn't the screaming of those in hellfire please the saved? Tertullian thought so. And I think he knew a bit more about ressentiment than you do.

>> No.19049754

>>19049736
>give away
>let's take
Not sure how much more explicitly two things can be different

>> No.19049764

>>19049754
Mens rea only matters in the metaphysical sense. The two things are materially the same.

>> No.19049767

>>19049746
Well, given the idiotic nature of this post, I can safely assume your attempts at biblical exegesis are other.

>> No.19049772

>>19049767
*over

>> No.19049773

>>19049744
>"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
His words are clear. Yet everywhere I see Christians taking side with capitalist, the wealth hoarding. It's a talk about Jesus' taking side with the poor and needy and slapping rich man.

>> No.19049778

Hurr durr mindlessness guise amirite?

>> No.19049780

>>19049764
Is communism just an inability to understand the difference between the words "give" and "take"?
This might explain a lot

>> No.19049781

>>19049010
wrong
https://politicaltheology.com/saint-iosif-stalin-and-religion/

>> No.19049790

>>19049773
Yep, quite clear. Rich people go to hell, and there is no moralizing as to how or why they are rich. If you are into moralizing about how some rich people are “good” and others “bad” liberalism is more your speed.

>> No.19049792

>>19049780
The discussion started with who Jesus would have preferred rich or poor? Answer is poor. So it's unchristian of Christian to take side with capitalism which is the ideology of the rich.

>> No.19049806

>>19049780
Just because you refuse to acknowledge someone else's point and argue in circles doesn't make the other person stupid. It makes you stupid.

>> No.19049812

>>19049792
Because socialism intends to make poor people rich, which would damn them to hell

>> No.19049813

>>19049790
>and there is no moralizing as to how or why they are rich
Yes there is because when a man is alive he has opinions. If doesn't engage with political discourse then good if he does then he should refrain from following ideology of the rich which is contrary to what OP claimed.

>> No.19049823

>>19049792
It is no more Christian to take the side of communism than capitalism. If jesus meant "take from the rich" he would have said that, but he did not mean that, he addressed the rich themselves and said "if you want to follow me then give away your wealth". Do you not get how astronomically different these things are?

The righteous man is just the man who works and gives away everything he can. There is no political dictate beyond that in his teachings

>> No.19049828

>>19049813
Making more people poor would save more souls however

>> No.19049834

>>19049812
>Because socialism intends to make poor people rich
Not at all. Socialism view all people as equal children of God. An average will eat the bread of dignity so in his free time he could spend time with family, pray, give time to community, pursue hobbies etc. these things are more meaningful that wealth.

>> No.19049839

Capitalism rewards the 7 deadly sins. Communism encourages Christian values such as brotherhood of man

>> No.19049857

This threat is protestant cancer.

>> No.19049858

>>19049834
That’s not Marx claims what will happen under the socialist program

>> No.19049876

>>19049839
Communism encourages envy. Capitalism encourages greed.

>> No.19049880

>>19049823
Yes it is, one ideology focuses on the pipe dream of getting rich and famous other focuses on giving everyman bread of dignity. Main point is worldly political engagement which argues against Capitalism.

>>19049828
Poverty is a curse for those who haven't experience comfort. Poverty doesn't create noble people.

>> No.19049882

>>19049767
Well hold on a minute, if communism will make everyone rich and thus send them to hell, according to Christian theologians that torment is pleasing to the saints in heaven. So if we are looking to maximize the glory and reward of heaven, we should send as many people to hell as possible, which is of course, what many 4channel christians call for, the destruction of sinners and heretics and such. I understand these things better than ye

>> No.19049908

>>19049858
The bread of dignity says it all. And Marx is not prophet.

>> No.19049910

>>19049880
You have comically childish views of what capitalism and communism are. Regardless of your dreams the fact is that Christianity has nothing to do with either and you cannot contort his teachings into political activism for either of them.

>> No.19049916

For the last time, you be christian and be imperfect

>> No.19049920

>>19049882
No, you are just comically liberal

>> No.19049932

>>19049910
>Christianity has nothing to do with either
Most of the contemporary Christians side with capitalism and meme bullshit of liberty. Again we are discussing worldly political engagement here.

>> No.19049984

I am a Christian, and believe Jesus to be the model for living, even though his teachings are very different than what we hear today from many Christians. I am a libertarian socialist, which essentially means my values can be best described by the slogan “Live Free or Die.” I see liberty as the highest ideal and a necessary condition of human flourishing. However, unlike many libertarians I believe socialism is the way to achieve this due to allowing workers to claim ownership over the means of production and the full fruits of the labor.

>> No.19049990

>>19049984
>libertarian socialism
So "voluntary association of worker owned companies" type thing ?

>> No.19049997

>>19049984
What about the church hierarchy?

>> No.19050004

>>19049990
Yes. Direct worker control of the means of production and syndicalist unions