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/lit/ - Literature

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19045794 No.19045794 [Reply] [Original]

What's your opinion on Faulkner? And why does /lit/ hate him?

>> No.19045811

I read As I Lay Dying. Felt like I didn't 'get' it

>> No.19045920

>>19045811
This, why would I ever want to know how an old woman bakes a cake?

>> No.19045937

>>19045794
A non-entity. Means absolutely nothing to me. Something, something corncobby chronicles.

>> No.19045989

>>19045937
>A non-entity.
Nabokov was a cunt and all he wrote about was cunny

>> No.19046005

>>19045794
/lit/ doesn't hate him.

>> No.19046053

>>19045794
He is completely locked into southern culture. Basically anyone outside of that very narrow context isn't going to enjoy it at all, which means as time goes on, he will become continually irrelevant.

>> No.19046291

>>19046053
Dogshit, his work is timeless as long as modernity continues at at least the pace it did in the twenties.

>>19045794
He's the greatest novelist of the twentieth century enabled all that came after him from Gaddis to O'Connor to McCarthy to McElroy. One of the greatest writers to ever live at his height. More than an exemplar of modernism, he was the most important precursor to post-modernism. The Sound and the Fury is an unmitigated timeless masterpiece (as long as time goes on) and so are Absalom Absalom and some of his short stories. Read him.

>> No.19046422

>>19045794
Generally only those who really, really hate americans or modernism don't like him
>>19046053
Aside from being the choice of his setting, seeing everything he wrote as a grand southern history allegory is your own decision, especially when he leaves so much room for you to interpret

>> No.19046642

>>19046053
I'm brazillian and I had a good time reading as i lay dying and the sound and the fury.

>> No.19046927

>>19046053
I'm German and he's my favorite writer. I love his prose.

>> No.19046933

Faulkner is the unrivalled god of American letters and my personal selection for the king of the twentieth century. Every page is just sublime.

>> No.19046964

>>19046291
>The Sound and the Fury is an unmitigated timeless masterpiece
I was completely filtered desu

>> No.19047066

I respect him for his Southern voice and prose but his books filtered me years ago. Need to revisit him.

>> No.19047608

>>19045794
Just really boring. Don't get much out of it. Don't know why southern literature is so shit-tier.

>> No.19047651

I couldn't make it through light in august

>> No.19047794

>>19045989
>nabokov...LE BAD
>b-becuz he didnt like this one writer that i really like!!1!
grow up

>> No.19048006

>>19045794
Lit has a boner for Joyce because Joyce started with the Greeks. Faulkner being better is just an inconvenience

>> No.19048037

>>19046053
He's greatly influential in Mexico (Fuentes), Portugal (Antunes), France (Simon), Austria (Handke)...

>> No.19048140

>>19046933
>Every page is just sublime.

Post some of your favorites.

>> No.19048342

>>19048140
My mother is a fish

>> No.19048459
File: 816 KB, 707x915, the best passage in AILD.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19048459

>>19048140
the greatest passage Faulkner ever wrote, no doubt

>> No.19048511

>>19045794
Shitty stories; shitty prose. Everyone knows it, but Faulknerfags are still intent on defending him, saying that readers are simply too dense to understand shitty prose.

>> No.19048516

>>19047794
I never said Nabokov was bad. Here's the citation:
>Nabokov was a cunt and all he wrote about was cunny

>> No.19048517

>>19048459
That's not even the best passage in AILD. Addy's monologue about her life, Dewey Dell describing how she got pregnant, Cash? musing on existence, and the barn burning are all top notch.

>> No.19048531

/lit/ doesn't like modernism or post-modernism because they both contain the word modern.

>> No.19048540

>>19045920
>>19045937
>>19045811
>>19047608
>>19047651
>>19046053
>>19048511
100% FILTERED
>>19048140
"Once a bitch always a bitch, what I say"
This applies to the above mentioned seething brainlets.

>> No.19048572

OP's mother is a fish.

>> No.19048594
File: 128 KB, 1143x310, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19048594

>>19046291
>One of the greatest writers to ever live at his height.
Kek, good one.

>> No.19049137
File: 22 KB, 600x567, ee1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19049137

To leave Harvard your mother's
dream for sold Benjy's pasture for
what have I done to have been given children like these Benjamin was punishment enough and now for her to have no more regard for me her
own mother I've suffered for her dreamed and planned and sacrificed I
went down into the valley yet never since she opened her eyes has she
given me one unselfish thought at times I look at her I wonder if she can be
my child except Jason he has never given me one moment's sorrow since I
first held him in my arms I knew then that he was to be my joy and my
salvation I thought that Benjamin was punishment enough for any sins I
have committed I thought he was my punishment for putting aside my
pride and marrying a man who held himself above me I dont complain I
loved him above all of them because of it because my duty though Jason
pulling at my heart all the while but I see now that I have not suffered
enough I see now that I must pay for your sins as well as mine what have
you done what sins have your high and mighty people visited upon me but
you'll take up for them you always have found excuses for your own blood
only Jason can do wrong because he is more Bascomb than Compson while
your own daughter my little daughter my baby girl she is she is no better
than that when I was a girl I was unfortunate I was only a Bascomb I was
taught that there is no halfway ground that a woman is either a lady or not
but I never dreamed when I held her in my arms that any daughter of mine
could let herself dont you know I can look at her eyes and tell you may
think she'd tell you but she doesn't tell things she is secretive you dont
know her I know things she's done that I'd die before I'd have you know
that's it go on criticise Jason accuse me of setting him to watch her as if it
were a crime while your own daughter can I know you dont love him that
you wish to believe faults against him you never have yes ridicule him as
you always have Maury you cannot hurt me any more than your children
already have and then I'll be gone and Jason with no one to love him shield
him from this I look at him every day dreading to see this Compson blood
beginning to show in him at last with his sister slipping out to see what do
you call it then have you ever laid eyes on him will you even let me try to
find out who he is it's not for myself I couldn't bear to see him it's for your
sake to protect you but who can fight against bad blood you wont let me try
we are to sit back with our hands folded while she not only drags your
name in the dirt but corrupts the very air your children breathe Jason you
must let me go away I cannot stand it let me have Jason and you keep the others they're not my flesh and blood like he is strangers nothing of mine
and I am afraid of them I can take Jason and go where we are not known
I'll go down on my knees and pray for the absolution of my sins that he
may escape this curse try to forget that the others ever were

>> No.19049301

>>19048459
Unironically kino
>>19048517
I think he was being facetious

>> No.19049352

>>19046964
Did you get past the first 2 chapters? Because I feel like after that, Faulkner kind of gave up and literally spells everything out for the reader.

>> No.19049436

>>19049352
Yeah, he did gives up after that. The existence of the epilogue proves it.

>> No.19049444
File: 178 KB, 798x770, 1595270114162.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19049444

>>19048140
>"You got to keep in mind he is a Northerner. They does things different from us. If a fellow in this country was to set up a goat-ranch, he would do it purely and simply because he had too many goats already. He would just declare his roof or his front porch or his parlor or wherever it was he couldn't keep the goats out of a goat-ranch and let it go at that. But a Northerner dont do it that way. When he does something, he does it with a organised syndicate and a book of printed rules and a gold-filled diploma from the Secretary of State at Jackson saying for all man to know by these presents, greeting, that them twenty thousand goats or what it is is, is goats. He dont start off with goats or a piece of land either. He starts off with a piece of paper and a pencil and measures it all down setting in the library -- so many goats to so many acres and so much fence to hold them. Then he writes off to Jackson and gets his diploma for that much land and fence and goats and he buys the land first so he can have something the build the fence on, and he builds the fence around it so nothing cant get outen it, and then he goes out to buy some things not to get outen the fence.

>> No.19049969

>>19049444
continuing for bump
>"So everything was going just fine at first. He picked out land that even the Lord hadn't never thought about starting a goat-ranch on and bought it without hardly no trouble at all except finding the folks it belonged to and making them understand it was actual money he was trying to give them, and that fence practically taken care of itself because he could set in one place in the middle of it and pat out the money for it. And then he found he had done run out of goats. He combed this country up and down and backwards and forwards to find the right number of goats to keep that gold diploma from telling him to his face he was lying. But he couldn't do it. In spite of all he could do, he still lacked fifty goats to take care of the rest of that fence. So now it aint a goat-ranch; it's a insolvency. He's either got to send that diploma back, or get them fifty goats from somewhere. So here he is, done come all the way down here from Boston, Maine, and paid two thousand acres of land and built forty-four thousand feet of fence around it, and now the whole blame pro-jeck is hung up on that passel of goats of Uncle Ben Quick's because they aint another goat betwixt Jackson and the Tennessee line apparently."

>> No.19050072

>>19049137
Quentin's part is just brutally tragic. I could post my favorite excerpts but I'm too lazy

>> No.19050122

absalom absalom was a trial, but it was a worthy trial. submerged in some dark mythology, some ancient swamp, he evaded many tired tropes, and what he didn't evade, he enriched. i doubt i'll read anything more by him, but Absalom Absalom was a clear work of genius, and Sutpen's history is one of the most haunting I've read. He has a meandering quality, a mushmouth that serves a sublime turn or another, but also tends to run one haggard. I prefer works of triumph that have a bit more control. For example, if Nabokov had destroyed his work unintentionally, or had it burned or some such tragedy, he probably would be able to refashion the work, (arduously) but more or less the same. Faulkner gives me the sense of a futile inconsistency, and that each beautiful line he offered was as ephemeral as the conduit he used to create it.

>> No.19050127

>>19050072
idk if i'm retarded, but why did Caddy being a slut bother him THAT much? It's pretty much the focal point of his character.

>> No.19050150

>>19050127
Quentyn saw caddy not as a person but as a symbol, represntative of the christian innocence he loved so much.

>> No.19050160

>>19050150
why would he see her as an aesthetic symbol and not as his sister and a real person?

>> No.19050172

I managed TSATF and AILD fine, but Go Down Moses filtered me. Had to read it about three times before I realized why the dude had to leave the plantation

>> No.19050195

>>19050160
He was honorpilled since a young age. Sadly not even his father believed in that.
It supossed to be representative of the lost values of a decadent South.

>> No.19050205

>>19050195
>honorpilled
is that your twee euphemism for obsessive neurosis?

>> No.19050226

>>19050195
I guess his idealistic "chivarly" when he wanted to fight one of Caddy's boyfriends showed that he barely saw his sister as a real human bean. But I do also think that his own virginity had a large part in the whole ordeal.

>> No.19050723

>>19045811
Same, to me it was funny and a little jarring.

>> No.19051075

>>19050195
>lost values
>>19050226
>idealistic "chivarly"
>>19050150
>a symbol, represntative of the christian innocence
all i saw was that he was envious of ames and got immasculated by him by the bridge. he seems way to schizo and hopeless to care about lost values so all this feels like a reach

>> No.19051106

>>19050127
Quentin's relationship and obsession with Caddy is essential to understanding Faulkner's message in the novel.

Quentin's section in The Sound and the Fury can be boiled down to the tragedy of internal conflict and struggle that inevitably arises via the passage of time and impermanence of values. Quentin was raised on the values and virtues of the antebellum South when those values no longer had any reflection in reality. Being merely human, Quentin is unable to dispense with that way of thinking regardless, even in spite of the advice from his father to do so and the recognition of the damage it is doing to him; it is how he was raised and what he believes in. Quentin's inability to let his sister go is the result of the chivalry and sense of duty that has been instilled into him from birth. That his sister is a slut bothers him to almost no end, but ultimately not as much as his impotence to do anything about it to protect her. His failures to do so (fighting her lover, trying to convince their father that they have committed incest, failing to prevent the marriage and then watching it fall apart) are all only reiterations of the inescapable quality of Quentin's suffering and despair.

It is not correct that he saw Caddy as a symbol, and there is much, much more to Quentin's section that what I wrote, but that is a criminally compressed version of it.

>>19050150
>>19050195
>>19050226
all misguided or plainly incorrect

>> No.19051113

>>19048540
t. didn't get faulkner

>> No.19051118

Read TSATF, impressed by the first section, engaged by the second, dissapointed by the third, exasperated by the fourth, disgusted by the appendix.

>> No.19051134

>>19045794
He's a manlet

>> No.19051162

>>19045937
You know why he called them corncobby, right? In Sanctuary a woman is anally and vaginally penetrated by a corncob during a rape scene.

>> No.19051174

>>19051118
The appendix can be ignored. Written way after the fact, after Faulkner more or less tapped himself out of creative talent.

>> No.19051621

>>19051113
I know you didn't. That's why I said "100% filtered"

>> No.19051936

>>19051075
That's a very face value reading of the book.

>> No.19051943

>>19051118
The jason section is the absolute best of the book and the omnipotent section is needed to both redeem jason, free quentin, and settle benji.
The appendix was added much later because the editors thought the book was too hard, most people just ignore it

>> No.19052066

>>19045794
I read As I Lay Dying and it was okay.

I feel like Faulkner is not a particularly great stylist. Joyce is someone who managed to write highly colloquial/regional language in a modernist way that is also beautiful and entertaining to read. I agree with Nabokov that Faulkner by contrast is kind of "corncobby".

>> No.19052116

>>19052066
I like Faulkner, but I have to agree with this. Purely as a prose stylist, while he is definitely unique, he isn't as good as Joyce (or even, god forgive me, Nabokov at his most lyrical). I think his forceful, sometimes overpowering prose helps elevate his stories for sure, and is part of what makes him such a fine writer, but as a prose stylist alone I don't think he's the most refined or notable

>> No.19052124

>>19051943
>section is needed to both redeem jason
How does it redeem him?

>> No.19052126

>>19052066
I like Faulkner's prose in Light in August and Absalom, Absalom!
Especially Light in August.

>> No.19052136

>>19052116
That's interesting, I really like Faulkner as a prose stylist because he's so obviously good.
And i completely disagree, I find Nabokov way worse as a stylist, Nabokov at worst (which often coincides with his most lyrical) has no sense of restraint.

>> No.19052167

>>19045794
I'm Southern, his work is lovely

>> No.19052202

>>19051943
>The jason section is the absolute best of the book
I do actually like it the best from the prose standpoint. As original as the previous two sections were, there where blemishes like flowery in places where it shouldnt be (even a few here and there in the Benjy section) which comes back tenfold in the fourth section and makes for an awful flowerfest. Jason's was a lot sharper in contrast (not as in lucid, but sharply written) and the plot was moving along with things coming together too but I cant help but feel like Jason is a cheap character. I'm just not interested in him

>>19052136
From the one Faulk and few Nab I've read, Nab has way more restraint. In TSATF, there were many times I felt he was forcing poetry. But I hope the thread doesnt derail into piss contest hell

>> No.19052232

>>19052167
Fellow Southerner. Please read William Gay. He’s not Faulkner but my God he is good, especially adept at Southern Gothic.

>> No.19052488

just finished absalom absalom and completely destroyed.
didnt even realize quentin was quentin cuz i only read s&f when i was a shithead high schooler. gotta reread that now and find out what thats all about

>> No.19052658

>>19052232
Rec some of his works

>> No.19052717

>>19046642
>I had a good time reading the sound and the fury.
I don't believe you

>> No.19052731

>>19052126
I should give them a try, thanks.

>> No.19052797

>>19052658
He only had a few novels before he passed on. A distinctly strictly Southern novel would be his first The Long Home which is more of a Bildungsroman. If you prefer Gothic then read his third novel Twilight which involves a necrophiliac undertaker, a hitman and pursuits through the mountains and woods of the South. He also has a short story called I Hate to See that Evening Sun Go Down. Sadly, I haven’t read it yet, but the title is sublime. Apologies for the late reply, hope you still see and enjoy the books.

>> No.19052826

>>19052232
>>19052797
Nice to hear, thank you very much friend

>> No.19052846

>>19052826
If you end up reading them, please make a thread. I’ve never seen him discussed here, other than myself. Though I suspect that Southern literature isn’t widely read here. Any-who, much love.

>> No.19052873

>>19052717
Why? It's a beloved masterpiece

>> No.19052975
File: 26 KB, 634x222, 39152140-9248425-image-a-135_1613024139365.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19052975

Funny moment from last year from Alan Greenspan's lovely wife

>> No.19052983

>>19052975
she really should have looked up where billy faulks got the title before making herself look like a dumbass
but then again, stupid shit on twitter is fairly common so she's in good company

>> No.19053393

>>19052983
How could you possibly misunderstand that tweet?

>> No.19053405

>>19053393
How did he misundestand it?

>> No.19053407

>>19053405
Because she's obviously aware where faulkner got the title, why else would she mention shakespeare? What she's doing is calling Faulkner loud and meaningless, unlike shakes.

>> No.19054996

>>19052136
I feel like, between Nabokov and Faulkner, if we're talking about restraint, then Nabokov is definitely more retrained than Faulkner. There will be scenes in Faulkner's books where the characters are doing things that are not structurally or thematically important, but he *writes* the scenes like they are; I remember this being especially bad in Light in August. Perhaps that's why some people like him, because every scene reads like a climax, but to me its just exhausting

>> No.19055461

>>19054996
>every scene reads like a climax
while i agree with the rest, one of my problems with tsatf was that the preacher scene, which should have been a climax, wasnt sufficiently climactic

>> No.19055503

>>19052124
The beey ending, where he saves benji from certain death instead of letting his burden die, is just about the first time he really went out of his way for his family. And this is coming off of quentin leaving

>> No.19055530

>>19052202
>but I cant help but feel like Jason is a cheap character
That's kind fo the point though. He's the leftovers of the compson family, his genius brother dead, his gentry father dead, and his darling sister run off leaves just the retard and jason. Through out the entire novel jason was treated as a after thought by his family, made to pick up their slack and come into a patriarchal role he was never prepared for. He basically never got the chance to be free like caddie did or to learn of the world like quentin. He had absolutely nothing but a shitty job and a broken home. Which is why he became the ignorant, spiteful, petty man who coild be so much more than he is

>> No.19055591

>>19053407
Bad bait

>> No.19056323

I absolutely loved Absalom Absalom,
'do you hate south?'
'I DONT HATE IT'
ah so good

>> No.19056472

>>19045794
>What's your opinion on Faulkner
He is one of the best writers ever

>> No.19056510

>>19045794
>And why does /lit/ hate him?
Because, if you hadn't gathered it by now, /lit/ is full of pseuds and edgelords.

>> No.19057195

>>19055530
Shame his exacution is scene after scene of him being cartoonishly unlikeable. The benjy and quentin sections captured something that cant be expressed on analyses whilst every analysis of jason including yours here expresses more nuance than there is in the book. The beauty he adds to the book is largely the contrast with the others, which dies down as the section progresses.

>> No.19057482

>>19057195
Yeah, it's an analysis by implications not what was expressed or experienced in his part.

>> No.19058144

>>19057195
>The benjy and quentin sections captured something that cant be expressed on analyses
That's just wrong, there's countless analysis on benji and quentin, entire novels worth of analysis exists for all the brothers.
>expresses more nuance than there is in the book
Perhaps the problem isn't that there isn't nuance to jason, but that you yourself simply don't like him. Because there is very clearly a nuanced prose style to his passage, the cyclical yet jumpy syntax helping to connect jason's fantasies, ambitions, and present situation. All done through simple repetition of phrases and pacing of events. All this goes to show his ginormous ego, strength of will, pettiness, unused intelligence and repressed desires. All these 'cartoon villain' acts you accuse him of are all very real things people of his situation do to feel control.
>The beauty he adds to the book is largely the contrast with the others
All the brother's largely contrast each other, that's the entire point
>>19057482
Firstly, all deeper analysis is based off of implication, there is no point in analysis if the book just gives you all the answers outright
Secondly, the context of the narrative is vital to understanding it and should not be ignored for not being explicitly stated. You could just as easily ignore the nuance of the benji and quentin sections if you applied this logic
Thridly, many of those points can be seen in scenes like when jason is speaking to his boss or that one negro who got one over him. When he's outright told that he could do so many other things but fools himself into continuing his meaningless, petty war.

>> No.19058151

>>19045794
I disliked his earlier works, then read The Hamlet and realized he is great.

>> No.19058256

I hate how some of the characters will just randomly think something sexual in As I Lay Dying. Especially when it's supposed to be a kid, like WTF

>> No.19058276

>>19056323
based

>> No.19058284

>>19055591
learn to read jesus christ it's a fucking tweet

>> No.19058294

>>19058256
You may have a dirty mind if you think vardaman was thinking about sex
Also the avergae adult male thinks abour sex a lot, it's a well documented fact

>> No.19058306

>>19058256
when did vardaman say something sexual?

>> No.19058315

>>19058306
Any time a character is looking at an animal I can't help but feel Faulkner is channeling his closeted bestiality into his writing.

>> No.19058428

>>19058144
>That's just wrong, there's countless analysis on benji and quentin, entire novels worth of analysis exists for all the brothers.
im saying there is some magic in those sections that cant be expressed in the analyses, not that nothing about them at all can be said.
>Perhaps the problem isn't that there isn't nuance to jason, but that you yourself simply don't like him.
not him as a person but him as a character yes. like ive said, i just dont find him interesting even with his circumstances in mind.
>there is very clearly a nuanced prose style to his passage, the cyclical yet jumpy syntax helping to connect jason's fantasies, ambitions, and present situation. All done through simple repetition of phrases and pacing of events.
again like i said, the prose was the sharpest on that section and i do appreciate it. in theory, i shouldn't be evaluating him seperate from his distinct voice, but that is how i came away from it feeling.
>ego, strength of will, pettiness, unused intelligence and repressed desires
maybe i felt beaten over the head with these characteristics.
>very real
never accused him of being unrealistic. there are uninteresting people irl too
>All the brother's largely contrast each other
yeah but when you reach the middle of a section, the refreshing contrast feeling wears off and you're left with the character itself instead of his difference from the previous one. when that happened with jason, the novel deflated for me

>> No.19058444

>>19058315
That's on you m8

>> No.19058489

>>19058428
>im saying there is some magic in those sections that cant be expressed in the analyses, not that nothing about them at all can be said.
This statement is all together meaningless. You might as well have said you liked them better because you liked them better. Perhaps ut was due to some personal affinity you had with them, perhaps not, I'm not you so I will never know. What I can know is that this is far from a valid criticism
>not him as a person but him as a character yes. like ive said, i just dont find him interesting even with his circumstances in mind.
I reiterate, your problem isn't how he's written or the nature of his actions, you simply do not like him. Which is personally fine, I have plenty of characters I simply do not like. Gatsby from gatsby for example. I suppose my issue with you was that it seemed you were undermining jason as a character, and I wanted to prove(more to prove to myself that I put thought behind what I like more than anything else, I suppose, ) that he is in fact nuanced.
>in theory, i shouldn't be evaluating him seperate from his distinct voice, but that is how i came away from it feeling.
To seperate a character from their own voice in a stream of consciousness piece of all things is to quite literally tear all the thought from their actions. Imagine what a lifeless shell bloom would be if you did the same to him
>maybe i felt beaten over the head with these characteristics
Fair enough I suppose
>never accused him of being unrealistic. there are uninteresting people irl too
>>19057195 here you said just about the opposite
>yeah but when you reach the middle of a section, the refreshing contrast feeling wears off
Never happened to me, in fact I grew to like jason more as a character because as his passage wnet on, it became more and more obvious just how much of an idiot he really was
But speaking honestly, this discussion will go nowhere. You will tell me of how you didn't like him, I will rell you of how I did, we will measure the respective penises of our personal experiences with the novel, neither of us will change position, and large sums of time will be wasted. Time that I could use getting back to whitman and time you could use on a novel you actually like

>> No.19058645

>>19058489
it was articulation practice at least but still thanks for bearing with me. sadly my actual penis is covered in dried soap that im still peeling off :) enjoy whitman anon

>> No.19059722

>>19058284
Once again, bad bait