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/lit/ - Literature

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19010920 No.19010920 [Reply] [Original]

Why does /lit/ hate Beat writers so much?

The way you guys talk to each other is actually very Beatesque

>> No.19010945

>>19010920
The beat writers were largely delinquent pseuds which makes them very relatable. Kerouac even had a thing about Spengler lel

>> No.19010959

>>19010920
Beat literature is atrocious

>> No.19010964

>>19010959
Why?

>> No.19010967

>>19010959
>>19010945
Kek. /lit has been the beats for the last 6years

>> No.19010972

>>19010920
They are the antithesis to anyone who post on this site.

>> No.19010987

>>19010920
They weren't good writers, save for Burroughs, but he was old.

>> No.19010988

They seem like posers, idk never read em. Never will either. Much better stuff to see.

>> No.19011006

>>19010920
but we love waldun and co.

>> No.19011019

>>19011006
No, we do not.

>> No.19011022

Post your best beat impressions bros:

The main street was rough and rolling filled with loose women and spilled drinks, men staring as I walked past, hurried step, nervous eyes, feeling for excitement but scared to step in. Too much to take in lost in visions exploding car exhausts and cigarette butts and street food wrappers. Voices shouting across the road like a tennis match, laces untied cannot bend down to retie as the cracks in pavement look up at me with smiles. I look down the wind tunnel for my buddy who is waiting at the corner with a half-drunk bottle of rum in one hand and sucking deep on a sodden cigar other hand in the air in a mock-salute. Salut mon ami salut. Let's go bash ourselves against a couple of loose gals. We step inside and the street ceases.

>> No.19011031

>>19010920
I don't hate them, I'm just not in high school anymore.

>> No.19011039

>>19010920
They all sound the same, that is to say, bad. And I say this despite a great eagerness to believe otherwise being something of a child rapist myself.

>> No.19011040

>>19010987
Burroughs sucked too, have you even read him? He’s proto-Reddit and then didn’t write for years and just recycled old stuff.

>>19010920
/lit/ hates them out of jealousy.
They are bad writers though

>>19010964
Their books were just nonsense to market their movement. Like throwing in eastern stu

>> No.19011067

>>19011040
proto-Reddit is not an argument nor a credible critique you peasant

>> No.19011087

>>19011067
He went off on how he hates stoners then how the government shouldn’t make it legal in Junky it was the post pathetic thing I’ve ever read. Also he writes like a retard in that quirky dead-pan way for humor effect. Naked Lunch has comic book tier exposition, are you mentally retarded that piece of shit is well-written? The entire appeal is the edgy drug angle that isn’t even fun to read.

>> No.19011092

>>19011087
>make it legal
Illegal**
He’s like Muh weed isn’t addictive same old retarded song and dance ever libertarian faggot makes written like a Reddit post.

>> No.19011096

>>19010920
I haven't read much of the beats but I like Kerouac's poetry. For instance:

Charlie Parker looked like Buddha
Charlie Parker who recently died laughing at a juggler on TV
After weeks of strain and sickness
Was called the perfect musician
And his expression on his face
Was as calm, beautiful and profound
As the image of the Buddha
Represented in the East — the lidded eyes
The expression that says: all is well

This was what Charlie Parker said when he played: all is well
You had the feeling of early-in-the-morning
Like a hemit's joy
Or like the perfect cry of some wild gang at a jam session
Wail! Whap!
Charlie burst his lungs to reach
The speed of what the speedsters wanted
And what they wanted was his eternal slowdown
A great musician
And a great creator of forms
That ultimately find expression
In mores and what-have-you

Musically as important as Beethoven
Yet not regarded as such at all
A genteel conductor of string orchestras
In front of wich he stood proud and calm
Like a leader of music in the great historie Worldnight
And wailed his little saxophone
The alto
With piercing, clear lament
In perfect tune and shining harmony
Toot!
As listeners reacted
Without showing it
And began talking
And soon the whole joint is docking and talking
And everybody talking —
And Charlie Parker
Whistling them on to the brink of eternity
With his Irish St. Patrick Patootlestick.
And like the holy mists
We blop and we plop
In the waters of slaughter and white meat —
And die
One after one
In Time.
And how sweet a story it is

When you hear Charlie Parker tell it
Either on records or at sessions
Or at official bits in clubs
(Shots in the arm for the wallet).
Gleefully he whistled the perfect horn
Anyhow made no difference...
Charlie Parker forgive me.
Forgive me for not answering your eyes.
For not having made an indication
Of that which you can devise.
Charlie Parker pray for me.
Pray for me and everybody.

In the Nirvanas of your brain
Where you hide —
Indulgent and huge —
No longer Charlie Parker
But the secret unsayable Name
That carries with it
Merit not-to-be-measured
From here to up down east or west.
Charlie Parker
Lay the bane off me
...and everybody.

>> No.19011104

>>19011096
Or:

lights out-
fall, hands a-clasped, into instantaneous
ecstasy like a shot of heroin or morphine,
the gland inside of my brain discharging
the good glad fluid (Holy Fluid) as
i hap-down and hold all my body parts
down to a deadstop trance-Healing
all my sicknesses-erasing all-not
even the shred of a "I-hope-you" or a
Loony Balloon left in it, but the mind
blank, serene, thoughtless. When a thought
comes a-springing from afar with its held-
forth figure of image, you spoof it out,
you spuff it off, you fake it, and
it fades, and thought never comes-and
with joy you realize for the first time
"thinking's just like not thinking-
So I don't have to think
any
more

>> No.19011105

>>19011096
>I like Kerouac's poetry
You’re probably the only person in the world to like his poetry

>> No.19011107

i love on the road

>> No.19011119

>>19011107
One of his worse books desu

>> No.19011129

>>19011119
then tell me one of his better books

>> No.19011131

>>19010920
Because most of /lit/ was exposed to tumblrfags bumblingly trying to imitate Beat style (or more likely at this point, imitate someone imitating Beat style) while completely lacking its substance long before they were exposed to any actual Beat writers. That special combination of pretentious romanticism, banality, and obscenity just takes them back to that girl with the round glasses and Doc Martens forcing her 'slam poetry' on them in AP English

>> No.19011150

>>19011129
Town and City (Only Skimmed, written normally, honestly bad, very bad. No discernible style)
On the Road (decent, pretty bad in parts.)
Doctor Sax (nonsense, unreadable)
Maggie Cassidy (decent, cozy, but forgettable)
Subterreans (good, but ultimately incredibly self-unaware)
Tristessa (Probably his best work)
Visions of Gerard (decent, forgettable though)
Dharma Bums (Very bad, would be decent if he didn't have the insufferable Buddhism/wisdom rants)
Desolation Angels (decent, bad in parts though)
Big Sur (decent, kind of pathe)
Satori in Paris (good, one of his best, he’s very senile here)
Vanity of Duluoz (decent, kind of pathetic)
Pic (pretty bad)

I read them all and the first 3 Burroughs.

1. Big Sur
2. Tristessa
3. Subterreans
4. Satori in Paris
5. Vanity of Duluoz
6. Desolation Angels
7. Visions of Gerard
8. Maggie Cassidy
9. Dharma Bums
10. On the Road
11. Pic
12. Doctor Sax
13. Town and the City

>> No.19011159
File: 112 KB, 785x731, 1566608356913.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19011159

>>19011092
>NO YOU CAN'T HECKING SMOKE WEED IT'S BAD FOR YOU

>> No.19011165

>>19011150
noted, appreciate it

>> No.19011181

>>19010920
I like waldun

>> No.19011184

>>19011159
The point was that it was poorly written and retarded. Weed is dumb though, but it was just a typical post you'd see on Reddit he put into his book to be edgy. A given Nabokov book is funnier, and Melville interposes essays better. The 'weed essay' was horifficly written and Burroughs trying to one-up authority in his shitty novella.
I was reading the book and kept saying, 'does this sound like a Redditor relaying his life,' and I could not get that thought out of my head. Then whatever he did for Naked Lunch was absolutely embarassing.

>> No.19011223

You guys make me sad. Do you even read? [ I have no great affection for the Beats aside from a few poetic high-points they happened upon.] “Proto Reddit?” How small is your world view ?

>> No.19011225

>>19010920
I literally don‘t know what beat is and I don’t care. They all look like homosexuals. Literature got shit after postwar was over and died whenever people stopped caring up the works and opinions of philosophers and writers who were not journalists or scientists by their main profession. That was either fifty or thirty years ago, incidentally when all the writers died who still had respect due to their fame.

>> No.19011231

>>19010920
Beat my dick, you freak beatnik.

>> No.19011233

>>19011225
How old are you? Honestly answer this.

>> No.19011237

>>19011223
The book sounds like a redditor writing a blog, I don't know how else to describe it. I'm sorry I insulted your favorite site and a book you enjoy, now back to r/cuckhold faggot.

>> No.19011243

>>19011223
Proto reddit is a valid descriptor old man

>> No.19011250

>>19011096
This was cool. Thanks for sharing.

>> No.19011252

>>19011233
I‘m 21. I am aware beat is post war but there is different post war literature which is actually good. It’s a generalisation to say all is bad but beat is just so fucking gay. I just can’t believe anyone would want to larp as that especially given the choice.

If I got a dollar for every time they mention anything associated with privileged non conformity I could buy a car in 1952.

>> No.19011359

>>19010920
This board like Celine, who is fantastic and also the ancestor to all beat literature. Everyone who came after was kind of a pale imitation. Henry Miller was ok though, and Hunter Thompson was lots of fun.

>> No.19011365

>>19011252
>I‘m 21.

stopped reading there

>> No.19011404

>>19011022
Kek. I would read this book.

>> No.19011418

>>19010920
Though Bukowski was not a beat he blows these asswipes out of the water. It is a good thing that their influence has declined while his has risen. Nonetheless Bukowski is still a shit-tier writer.

>> No.19011423

>>19011359
It always surprised me that Tropic Of Cancer isn’t more widely read here. It reminds me a lot of Celine meets Hemingway’s A Moveable Feast, which are both great

>> No.19011430

>>19011039
>kerouac sounds like burroughs
wat

>> No.19011437

>>19011423
that's because this board is full of pseuds

>> No.19011438

>>19010920
It's like if literature had all the fun and interesting parts of it replaced with pseud bullshit. It's just not interesting to read.

>> No.19011454

>>19011096
thanks anon i now know i dislike kerouac’s poetry

>> No.19011459

>>19011096
nice ending

>> No.19011485

>>19011418
Bukowski, Hemingway, Kerouac, and Burroughs are all the same tier imo.
Saul Bellow and Updike are clearly the professional writers.

>> No.19011534

>>19010920
>waldun
The Beats were the original "Dark Academia" pseuds.

>> No.19011631

>>19011485
Nah, it goes like this Buk > Hem > Ker > POWER GAP > Bur. But they are all generally in the same shit category.

Couldn't into Updike after attempting Run Rabbit Run and generally I don't read Jews so I can't speak for Bellow. These days the most modern novelists I read are the California noirists. Awful taste, I know, but I just can't get into what's considered high brow after WW2. Otherwise I like Henry James, Conrad, etc.

>> No.19011639

>>19011485
>>19011631
Grouping Hemingway with these people. 100% filtered.

>> No.19011669
File: 306 KB, 320x528, 1500262619270.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
19011669

>>19011184
>I was reading the book and kept saying, 'does this sound like a Redditor relaying his life,' and I could not get that thought out of my head.
my first thought was "kill yourself" but i started feeling pretty sorry for you if you actually think this way
so you should probably kill yourself for real, your brain is broken

>> No.19011682

>>19011096
His poetry only works when he reads it.
https://youtu.be/AmOmAogOd2A

>> No.19011714

>>19011682
i love charlie parker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNHYaJ_cUow

>> No.19011754

>>19011022
The moon shone dim and gleamed its gloaming sparkle over the black station tarmac. Old Donny Hamburger corked me in the arm and said "hey Jack, why don't we hop on over to Suzie Twoshoes and buckle up on old wine. She's a fine doll don't you know!" Oh, didn't I know it. But truth be told I was tired. Tired for all this old world's mooing and mowing and the yack yack yack of old St John Time. It was late enough as it was and so I said as much, pulled my cap over my eyes and fell asleep right there in that very station. Oh America, if only you could see your children now!

>> No.19011765

>>19011669
I'm sorry I made fun of your favorite website. Any good posts on r/cuckhold recently?

>>19011639
He's not even the best of the bunch

>>19011631
Burroughs is complete shit, I'm sick of the meme that he was the one good beat.

I'd go Buk>Kerouac>Hemingway>Burroughs

Rabbit Run he wrote at 28 solely to make fun of Kerouac, his prose is good later on, try a later work when he's established or a short story.

I don't read Jews either, but almost every writer after 1900 is a Jew in one form or other. I also barely read literature after 1900 for that reason, but I like the contemporary American fiction aesthetic and those 2 were the best I've read, aside from Nabokov who is much better. If you have any other recs in that category I'd be happy to read them.
Also, these are both audiobook while driving or posting on 4chan tier anyway.

>> No.19011791

The only good beat writer was bukowski and he hated them

>> No.19011794

>>19011631
>>19011765
Somehow I did not see this part

>These days the most modern novelists I read are the California noirists. Awful taste, I know, but I just can't get into what's considered high brow after WW2. Otherwise I like Henry James, Conrad, etc.
Ray Chandler is amazing.
Yeah, James, Conrad are excellent. Good taste.

>> No.19011807

>>19011765
>I'd go Buk>Kerouac>Hemingway>Burroughs
Ask me how I know you read and enjoy YA

>> No.19011819

>>19011807
Hemingway is young-adult tier, and they all suck.

>> No.19011848

>>19011765
Interesting I might give Updike another go. I kinda wanted him to be the spiritual successor of the Hawthorne-James stream but was sorely disappointed by that book. Would you recommend a different one?

Chandler's grave is about ten minutes from my house. Good fellow.

Nabby is good but I haven't read him in many years. Can't say I can recommend any writers in particular you probably haven't heard of from post war America. Best book I read recently was Tis Pity She's a Whore a play by the Carolinean playwright John Ford. That was a scorcher.

>> No.19011860

>>19010945
Kerouac was a reactionary Catholic with a thing for Jazz lol

>> No.19011898

It's important to enjoy the Beats for what they are. Don't read them expecting it to be on par with truly great authors; think of them as fun little palate-cleansers in between more intellectual books. I enjoy Kerouac's style (though I can see how some wouldn't), but stream-of-consciousness type shit has been done much better long before these guys. So enjoy them knowing that they aren't top tier.

>> No.19011901

>>19011860
Kek. Probably the best sentence about Kerouac ever written. Too bad it's only going to be recorded in warosu.

>> No.19011904

>>19011848
No he's not that good, even at his peak. I've only read Rabbit Run, Witches of Eastwick, Bech Book, and Rabbit Remembered, so maybe Witches of Eastwick. Aside from glancing over some of his other ones: Roger's Version, A Month of Sundays, S., Marry Me, Seek My Face. Those stood out to me. Can't vouch if any are good.

Oh interesting.

Yeah, I mean Roth is a cancer imo, and Delilo looks terrible. Sure I'll check that out thanks.

>> No.19011906

>>19011898
>Palate cleansers
This is what the noirists are for me as I enter midlife. But I seriously cannot read those writers without feeling intense revulsion now.

>> No.19011913

>>19011904
I'll keep the Bitches of Eastwick in mind then cheers lad you've given me something to attempt reading after this Hammett dime.

>> No.19011920

>>19011906
Why do you feel revulsion?

>> No.19011952

>>19011920
I actually cannot speak for Kerouac and the other Easterners because I have not read them in such a long time but for me Bukowski just seems as if he makes his own bed and sleeps in it willingly over and over again. It's an extremely subjective judgment.

>> No.19011975

>>19011920
>>19011952
However having said that, presuming you are OP, I completely agree that this board has much in common with the beats in tone and character and any distaste they have for them is just Caliban looking in the mirror.

>> No.19011988

>>19011898
Kerouac spends pages talking about how he and his buddhist friends know everything and how everyone he meets knows everything about the world. WB the part where he's lecturing his middle-class brother-in-law about 'reality' in The Dharma Bums. The guy was full of shit. Also there's too much drunk degeneracy, how is that enlightening it's repulsive.

Burroughs I don't like his style and it's all just filth, but it's not even interesting.

Bukowski is just whining.

I'll put them on in the background on audiobook when I'm shitposting, but would prefer Bellow or Updike or Nabokov.

>> No.19011991

>>19011988
>>19011898
Although, I suddenly am in the mood for Buk

>> No.19012017

>>19011087
Slit your throat.

>> No.19012019

>>19011991
Again, the Buk always wins. As shitty as he is, there is something eternal about what he wrote compared to the Easterners. The loser typing away in his little Hollywood dives retiring into the San Pedro bungalow knew far more about life than those sanctimonious know-it-alls. (Ignoring his own little On the Road 1940's draft dodging experience...)

>> No.19012020

>>19011096
Redpill me on getting into Jazz /lit/

It all sounds samey to me but so many people in the 50's couldn't get enough of it.

Is it one of those genres you had to come of age to, before there was popular music, or can you come to appreciate it with some study?

>> No.19012026

>>19011988
>it's all just filth
okay chud
>Bellow or Updike
yikes, embarrassing.

>> No.19012144

>>19012026
You haven’t read them, lucky you
I even like that Bellow Holocaust book

>> No.19013345

>>19012020
you either like it or you don't, just like everything else. it's your taste. it's an acquired taste. doesn't matter.
why do you want to "get into" jazz? to impress people? to satisfy your curiosity? to give it a chance and see if you can appreciate it? doesn't matter. who the fuck cares. what the fuck am i saying. either way, just listen. listen to different musicians playing different kinds of jazz. there is cool jazz, spooky jazz, sad jazz, jazz that makes you want to jump and dance, modern jazz that teeters on the fringe with electric guitars and synth, different instruments, with and without vocals.
but if you already have listened, and you say
>It all sounds samey to me
then you don't like jazz. that's it.