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/lit/ - Literature


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19009055 No.19009055 [Reply] [Original]

>To be truly conservative today, to fight for what is worth saving in our traditions, means to engage in a radical change. The old conservative motto “some things have to change so that everything remains the same” acquired a new weight today: many things will have to change radically for us to remain human. What the Taliban and our new populists are doing can only end in a truly post-human society.
what did he mean by this?

Source: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/534092-zizek-taliban-globalist-traditions/

>> No.19009070

>>19009055
zizek is retarded

>> No.19009104

>We should learn to trust science: it is only with the help of science that we can overcome our problems (caused, among other things, by science in the service of power). We should learn to trust public authority: only such an authority makes it possible to confront dangers like pandemics and environmental catastrophes by way of imposing necessary measures. We should learn to trust “the big Other,” the shared space of basic values: without it, solidarity is not possible.

Bro what the FUCK am I reading? Is he trolling?

>> No.19009110
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19009110

>> No.19009144

For an alleged Marxist he holds a lot of culturally reactionary opinions, to say the least.
It's odd that he hasn't been cancelled yet and sometimes I feel like he's basically just a populist opportunist at this point. He's publicly said "nigger" before. He's very entertaining and his films (Pervert's Guide, ...) are better and more relevant than his books.
I say this as somewhat of a (neo-)reactionary btw

>> No.19009148

>>19009104
I think he's saying that's what the Left thinks. He uses this way of writing all the time. He should've used quote marks.

>> No.19009160

I'm just incredibly jelly of Zizek's academic accolades.

>> No.19009163

>>19009104
>science good
>science in the service of power causes much of our problems
>also we can only really get "science" from inherently powerful institutions so trust the experts!

pretty sure this dude is a retarded leftist of some flavour so i dont know what I expected, but this is still just disappointing

>> No.19009167

>>19009148
>The paradox is thus that, to defeat the external threat (of globalist domination), one should begin by sacrificing the very heart of what we feel is threatened.

No, I've been reading Zizek for years, I know him inside and out, he's not impersonating the Left, this is in line with the general logic of his system: only the loss of what is most precious to us can deliver us from loss. It was cute in his books but now... nah nigga.

I'm willing to be proven wrong though. I can't believe this shit.

>> No.19009169

>>19009110
Amazing how consistently Murphy is producing shit content. Haven't looked at his courses but his videos are just so useless.

>> No.19009172

>>19009144
He's the last true ML and he doesn't care for idpol bullshit.

>> No.19009175

>>19009104
Did you just wake up? He was articulating the same position from the start of covid
>>19009148
not really, he is clearly against populist left and articulating an alternative to it in that passage, this is his position, and he is right. Populists, both left and right, are just resentful crybabies with no drive to power, they are inconsequential and should be ignored. Power should be taken, not resented. Authority is necessary, all talk about authentic resistance is bullshit and just look naive in our days.

>> No.19009176

>>19009163
He isn't a "retarded leftist", he's operating at a cognitive level that mogs most of his critics to dirt (the JP debate was embarrassing, imagine being an academic celebrity and being stonewalled by Hegel), but to come out with this... unreal.

>> No.19009182

>>19009055
"Here is why this word actually means the opposite of what you think" by Some Leftist Faggot

Will they ever tire of this game

>> No.19009189

>>19009176
mogging someone like JP is fucking childs play mate, JP is literally some /pol/ tier "gommunism is when the government does thing" tier youtube hack. also anyone who is a leftist is retarded, so if he is a leftist, yes he is retarded. if hes not a leftist then i stand corrected

>> No.19009190

>>19009182
Please stop, you low iq mutt faggots muddy everything with your burger baby politics. The adults are talking.

>> No.19009193

>>19009176
>the JP debate was embarrassing
Imagine getting destroyed so hard in a public debate that you turn into a literal drug addict
Also imagine having the gall to preach self-improvement while being a literal drug addict

>> No.19009198

>>19009189
retard allergic to nuance. fuck off

>> No.19009202

>>19009189
get a load of this retard

>> No.19009206

>>19009055
It's not 2009 anymore, you don't have to take Zizek seriously

>> No.19009215

>>19009198
>>19009202
>no argument

the entire paradox he presents here is at the absolute heart and soul of leftist ideology, and is largely why it is inherently fucked: to sacrifice the thing you desire in order to achieve the thing you desire.

>> No.19009224

>>19009190
>the adults are talking
You are a faggot on a 4chan sperging into the abyss

>> No.19009259

>>19009215
it's literally based on the hegelian logic of the negation of the negation, please stop posting

>>19009224
I mog cucks like you for breakfast, brunch, and dinner, go home.

>> No.19009266

>>19009055
I lost all respect for zizek when he praised greta thunberg then proceeded to seethe about people who dared talk shit about george soros.

>> No.19009275

>>19009259
Negate the negation of my balls

>> No.19009285

>>19009266
Like I said, I've been reading him for years, I understand his system like it's my own, but this is just embarrassing. We've officially hit boomer obsolescence with a mind I've always greatly respected.

>>19009275
how about i negate your moms vagoo fag

>> No.19009292
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19009292

>>19009259
b-but muh hegel! my broken paradoxical self defeating ideologies are automatically redeemed because muh hegel!
i dont think i will stop posting, no

>> No.19009305

Can this nigga go for 4 seconds without bringing up Lacan

>> No.19009319

>>19009305
Why would he, iirc he studied under lacan's son

>> No.19009398

>>19009055
>What the Taliban and our new populists are doing can only end in a truly post-human society.
Yep, Uncle Ted was right all along.
This guy is only allowed opposition, he will say anything for a few more shekels.
How can he not cherish when "the anglo" get fucked?

>> No.19009570

>>19009175
>not really, he is clearly against populist left and articulating an alternative to it in that passage, this is his position, and he is right. Populists, both left and right, are just resentful crybabies with no drive to power, they are inconsequential and should be ignored. Power should be taken, not resented. Authority is necessary, all talk about authentic resistance is bullshit and just look naive in our days.

I can't believe people are falling for this bullshit. Blackrock and the asset management firms now own $50 trillion dollars in western assets. It's over. We are full blown serfs and own nothing. To counter-signal against "populism" at this point is pure delusion, we are already living under a totalitarian prison planet

>> No.19009650

Basically, he is right but it's the wrong time to be right. People are a mass of useless retards and we're living in the circus. Check-in later after a few historical events, a meat-grinder of a war, maybe then these things will be worth discussing seriously.

>> No.19009696

>>19009055
>"It is time for the country to become fairly radical for a generation" - The greatest American President of all time

>> No.19009724

Intellectually bankrupt

>> No.19009735

>>19009650
it makes sense until he brings up the Taliban. how is what the Taliban are doing NOT a perfect example of conservatives enacting radical change in a society that has been heavily influenced by outside values and has been changed by a literal foreign occupying force, in order to bring about more traditional conservative moral values

>> No.19009736

>>19009104
>>19009175
Why are leftoids such spineless bootlickers?

>> No.19009796

>"The opposition between populist Right and Muslim fundamentalists is thus relativized: populists can easily imagine the co-existence of different ways of life, not only with Muslims but also with Jews if they all stay at a distance."
Wut? I legit think he's losing his mind.
>"Liberal resistance against vaccination on behalf of human rights makes one nostalgic for the Leninist “democratic socialism” (free democratic debate, but once a decision is taken, everybody has to obey it). One should read this democratic socialism in the sense of Immanuel Kant’s formula of Enlightenment: not “Don’t obey, think freely!” but “Think freely, state your thoughts publicly, and obey!” The same holds for vaccine doubters: debate, publish your doubts, but obey regulations once the public authority imposes them. Without such practical consensus, we will slowly drift into a society composed of tribal factions."
This idiot has always been an apologist for tyranny.
>We should learn to trust science: it is only with the help of science that we can overcome our problems (caused, among other things, by science in the service of power). We should learn to trust public authority: only such an authority makes it possible to confront dangers like pandemics and environmental catastrophes by way of imposing necessary measures. We should learn to trust “the big Other,” the shared space of basic values: without it, solidarity is not possible. "
WEWWWWW
>"To be truly conservative today, to fight for what is worth saving in our traditions, means to engage in a radical change. The old conservative motto “some things have to change so that everything remains the same” acquired a new weight today: many things will have to change radically for us to remain human. What the Taliban and our new populists are doing can only end in a truly post-human society. "
This boomer is so caught up in an alienated mode of living that he thinks being dominated by state-like apparatuses is what it means to be 'truly human'. What a fucking cuck man. I actually liked this guy's thought not too long ago.

>> No.19009805

>>19009735
That's what he says.
>American rightist populists who sympathize with the Taliban are more right than they think: what we see in Afghanistan is what our populists want, just purified to its extreme version. It is clear what features the two sides share: opposition to “globohomo,” to the new global elite that spreads LGBT+ and multicultural values, which are eroding the established way of life of local communities.

That's all well and good for Afghanistan but America is not Afghanistan. It works fine if you convert to islam and move there but how do you create the same revolution in the center of the globohomo empire. I know there are many people who believe it is possible but I'm not convinced with the lack of progress so far. That's why I say, check-in later and maybe there will be something to talk about.

>> No.19009811

>>19009735
He agrees with what you are saying but thinks the Taliban and populists are the real baddies not big daddy hedge fund and it's golem, the global State.

>> No.19009825

>>19009805
>how do you create the same revolution in the center of the globohomo empire.
Apparently for Zizek that means becoming the caricatured liberal he has spent his career psycho-analyzing.

>> No.19009832

>>19009144
Oh, and I'm also trans btw if that matters.

>> No.19009839

>>19009825
Apparently. I get the frustration but what are you going to do about it? Caring about what Zizek thinks is stupid in the first place. He will die soon.

>> No.19009873

>>19009839
What are you actually asking me? I'm going to post on image boards about how Zizek has lost his credibility as a public intellectual. His insights into implicit social-psychological mechanisms of control are useful but everything he's written or said in the past year and a half has been bunk.

>> No.19009899

>>19009873
The question is, why does what Zizek think actually matter enough to post about? My theory is that there is nothing else to talk about. People are powerless, they can't do anything, they are slaves, some old fart gives an opinion, and because of their powerlessness they get much more angry at that old fart than they would otherwise. This is based on my life experience.

>> No.19009901

>>19009805
oh i think i get it now

so basically, if i am understanding this right, he has no fucking idea what he is talking about. theres a specific reason why being a "true conservative" means being a radical, its because every day "liberals" make changes that are EXTREMELY unpleasant and difficult to reverse, possibly impossible, and being some moderate milquetoast "conservative" will accomplish literally nothing, we are on the clock, we have a deadline to meet, and even if being moderate is logical way to win people over in the context of a heavily liberalized society, it wont matter because being moderate wont meet that deadline

>> No.19009930

>>19009899
Zizek is a public intellectual. It's important to hold him to task about what he says and writes. How dull are you?

>> No.19009937

>>19009901
But why is that wrong

>>19009930
You're still living in a world where there is such a thing as a public intellectual, imagine that.

>> No.19009960

>globohomo good
embarrassing

>> No.19010026

>>19009901
>even if being moderate is logical way to win people over in the context of a heavily liberalized society
This isn't always the case. I don't see moderates winning people over in droves but for the sake of argument assume that they are. Winning people over by itself is not enough. There is such a thing as quality when it comes to people. So are the people you're winning over, are they skilled, dutiful people ready to sacrifice and work or are they obese pigs living on distractions. Do they have power or at the very least power potential or not? It's easier than ever to get your fifteen minutes of fame but beyond having a personal following of paypiggies on patreon or something nobody has done much with it. Very few people living in America today are of any use. We have whole generations that are a complete waste of biomatter.

>> No.19010317

>>19009055
I'm a bit bewildered as to why Zizek speaks like the Corona pandemic is actually as big of a problem as the media says. It's pretty much a meme as viruses go, few thousand people dying.
Maybe it's because he's old and in the endangered demographic.

>> No.19010608

>>19010317
>It's pretty much a meme as viruses go, few thousand people dying.
incorrect

>> No.19011550

>>19009104
he's saying that a facile set of reactionary positions is just as spineless as the abuse of universals by the bureaucratic class to advance its rule. a radical insistence upon science as such with regards to the pandemic actually spoils the bureaucrat's game, since when they invoke science they only do it as an official talisman. this really is the same as his discussions about how the eastern bloc dissidents who were really effective were the ones who insisted that the party live by its own stated ideology rather than the ones who just wanted blue jeans and coke

>> No.19011593 [DELETED] 

>>19011550
>a radical insistence upon science as such with regards to the pandemic actually spoils the bureaucrat's game, since when they invoke science they only do it as an official talisman. this really is the same as his discussions about how the eastern bloc dissidents who were really effective were the ones who insisted that the party live by its own stated ideology rather than the ones who just wanted blue jeans and coke
The latter position failed and so will the former. Zizek needs to be put out to pasture. Populists ARE arguing for rigorous science and trust in institutions but they get shoehorned as conspiracy theorists at every turn. The only appropriate responsive in the face of a media machine as strong as ours today is to deny "the science" and "the experts" until they literally try to force us into camps.

>> No.19011924
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19011924

>>19009055
>The paradox is thus that, to defeat the external threat (of globalist domination), one should begin by sacrificing the very heart of what we feel is threatened. We should learn to trust science: it is only with the help of science that we can overcome our problems (caused, among other things, by science in the service of power). We should learn to trust public authority: only such an authority makes it possible to confront dangers like pandemics and environmental catastrophes by way of imposing necessary measures. We should learn to trust “the big Other,” the shared space of basic values: without it, solidarity is not possible.
Based

https://youtu.be/kHwqDMIx89Q

>> No.19011946

>>19009175
>Power should be taken, not resented. Authority is necessary, all talk about authentic resistance is bullshit and just look naive in our days.
Zizek is more based than I initially believed.

>> No.19012003
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19012003

>>19010317
This section:

>Perhaps the deepest rift we are dealing with here is the rift between the image of reality offered by science and the common sense normality, the way of life we are used to: normality, inclusive of all the intuitions of how our life works, is on the side of vaccine-deniers. They simply cannot accept that the problems we are facing now - the pandemic, global warming and social unrest – will lead to the end of our way of life. People who need regular dialysis to survive often claim that the most traumatic thing for them is to accept that their very survival depends on this prothesis: there is a big machine out there, in front of me, and my bodily functioning depends on its regular use and smooth functioning. The prospect of vaccination confronts us with the same shattering experience: my survival hinges on the success of being jabbed repeatedly.

Recall Adorno on the authoritarian personality. Adorno distinguishes between conservatives and "pseudoconservatives." The conservative (can probably describe our "liberals" now) will accept the status quo, unjust as it is, or agree with some of the radical's intentions, but disagree that radical change is possible; it's not practical and so forth. The "pseudoconservative," however, is the rebellious reactionary. They rebel in the name of order, in the name of normality. They rebel against the "king" in the name of the "crown," to restore the crown to its rightful head. I think this is shared with the libertarian / populist left, too, in a way -- but that's a different discussion.

Take for example the rebellion against "Big Tech" after those companies banned Trump. Does anyone here trust these companies? I don't. I didn't vote for Donald Trump either, but these companies wanted him gone and that's what they did, after he was president for four years and all those companies gave him a signal boost that whole time.

So who really runs America? The people, or big business? William Randolph Hearst after all was called the "Uncrowned King" and it's said the press is the "fourth estate." Add Facebook, Twitter, and Google, and Jeff Bezos who owns the Washington Post. The thing is, Trump's supporters will rebel against this "king" (Big Tech) and march to and fro, but they won't rebel against the "crown" which is the free-for-all capitalism that allowed these companies to capture a monopoly over information in the first place. As Trump said: America will never be a socialist country. Capitalism is the crown which should not be questioned. You can't let the crown roll on the ground. Instead, the crown has just been usurped, and there's a "pretender" sitting on the throne. And that's the "authoritarian personality" today, such as it is.

The last thing here is that the reactionary rebellion tends to destroy the very institutions of order and normality that have been usurped. Zizek: "Without such practical consensus, we will slowly drift into a society composed of tribal factions."

>> No.19012078
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19012078

>>19010608
I think there's probably more than a million dead in the U.S. and it will continue to increase with new variants. Not to mention "deaths of despair" from overdoses and suicide. So there's a kind of mass psychological trauma that comes with people unable to face the reality that our way of life is ending and we just lived through a genocide that occurred for no reason other than the ideological failures of the state. People just drop out, develop depression and have anxiety attacks, or they just become afraid of their environment and they don't know why.

But for the vaccine-deniers:

>They simply cannot accept that the problems we are facing now - the pandemic, global warming and social unrest – will lead to the end of our way of life.

They rebel against the image of reality offered by "science," by liberal institutions which have frozen up are unable to make radical changes, in favor of "common sense normality" and rebelling in such a way to "go back to the way things were." But that is impossible.

>To be truly conservative today, to fight for what is worth saving in our traditions, means to engage in a radical change.

Or read about what Zizek says marked the difference between fascism and Stalinism. Sure, the Stalinists did bad things to Germans who lived in the East, but a Stalinist victory meant that Germans as a people could go on living. The difference was between Stalinist civilization -- still indebted to the Enlightenment tradition however distorted it became -- and fascist barbarism. Between civilization and collective ruin. Between socialism or barbarism.

https://youtu.be/Net9YgT7qMM

>> No.19012254

>>19009104

C R Y P T O

A

T

H

O

L

I

C

I

S

M

>> No.19012280

>>19009796

More to the point that the world is Evil, the Gnostic reading of Hegel (Baudrillard's Fatal Strategies) sounds painfully actual while this Marxist reading sounds like a joke.

>> No.19012317

>>19009796
>>19012280

The joke being that he concedes that Society is defined by the zero-sum status whereby it owns all the gains and its members own all the loses, and that its members ensuring its continuation and their continuation therein means knowingly affirming this status.

>> No.19012346

>>19009055
not even gonna read it but i'm gonna assume he's shilling for the establishment and Schwabian notions of change

>> No.19012367

>>19012280
>>19012317
When's the next thread? Zizek has failed us, and me. And I used to respect him so much.

>> No.19012383

>>19009144
>For an alleged Marxist he holds a lot of culturally reactionary opinions, to say the least.

lol. The idea that Marxists ever were cultural progressives is what was wrong to begin with.

>> No.19012400
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19012400

>>19009070
no u

>> No.19012414

>>19012078
Sounds all deep and all, until you look around and see that no one is fucking dying anywhere and it’s media manipulation.
/pol/ is right, and the mind raped commie with authoritarian Stockholm syndrome has ruined the last of his reputation by using mental gymnastics to want more control on the people.
He is after all, in capable of coming to terms, like all you leftists, that your ideology and intellectual posturing has been used by the powerful for generations and no threat has come from the right in half a century or more.
Fighting windmills as the world actually marches into tyranny worse than anything the nazis ever did.

>> No.19012418

>>19012280
>Marxist reading

Zizek hasn't been a Marxist since 1989. The moment the Soviet Union fell Zizek turned into a Hegelian social democrat.

>> No.19012426

>>19012367

About 1/3 of the way through, it's big. Note that Zizek readily concedes what all Catholics secretly think, recall my previous point that all Gnostics are uniquely Gnostic insofar as their Gnosticism is as the lights in the sky accompanying an earthquake.

>> No.19012428

>>19012418

As in Ontologically Marxist, Materialist.

>> No.19012438

>>19012428
Yeah, and he isn't one. In any way. The guy literally analyzes everything through Hegel and Lacan.

>> No.19012444

>>19012438
>zizek is not a materialist

The absolute state...

>> No.19012452

>>19012444
No he isn't lol. Literally read anything he has written the last 30 years, it's either references to the Weltgeist, or it's a psychologism, in other words, Zizek is about as Marxist as the average purple haired college radical.

>> No.19012478

>>19012452

Way off. Sad.

>> No.19012487

>>19012478
Either have an argument or fuck off loser.

>> No.19012517

>>19012487

He explicitly described himself as a Materialist and an Atheist, reads Hegel in a literal Materialist way, he claims that the world spirit is emergent from "particles bumping into each other".

>> No.19012533
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19012533

>>19009144
>For an alleged Marxist he holds a lot of culturally reactionary opinions, to say the least.


All Marxists and anti-libertarian socialists due. They're basically the far-right without God.

They're reputation as champ[ions of civil rights and tolerance is because the Libertarians keep outflanking them in their quest to bring the conservatives to the libertarian center. So Marxists today PRETEND to be pro-LBGT+, anti-draft, pro-UBI etc. but then pervert the Libertarian ideas by demanding taxation and regulation to put the Marxists in control.

Note how the far-left in the US suddenly became blindly pro-vaxx and for extending the draft when they think it will help them expand control.

Wait until the far-left goes on a really big racist-eugenics revival. It's being planned.

Smart socialists are returning back to the Libertarian International for guidance on voluntary eco-villages. Interesting times.

>> No.19012536

>>19012517
I don't care what he describes himself as, the way he analyzes society is like a priest or shaman divining what will happen next, and not someone who analyzes society through material processes and contradictions.

>> No.19012543

>>19012536
>not someone who analyzes society through material processes and contradictions.

He claims that everything is a Material process. Put the bong down.

>> No.19012553

>>19012543
Dude LITERALLY watch his debate with Jordan Peterson HE FLAT OUT says he is more Hegelian and psychoanalytical than he is a Marxist.

Just stop talking.

>> No.19012627

>>19012553

BRO, literally read the first part of this shit, pages 24-110, a bong in each hand, I swear: https://sok.bz/content/3-clanky/11-2009/20091012-slavoj-zizek-the-monstrosity-of-christ/christzizek.pdf

>> No.19012641

>>19009570
Now wouldn't it be great if the left could also embrace the same authoritarianism that most of the world is happy to live under and seize and redistribute those resources by force?

>> No.19012701

>>19012452
>>19012553
He is a self-proclaimed dialectical materialist and materialist theologian. His analyses of society are rooted in a thoroughly materialist/Lacanian interpretation of Hegel. We're not saying he's a Sam Harris-tier materialist.

Stop posting, mutt, please. You've never read him.

>> No.19012715

>>19012426
Zizek is a fantastic elucidator of the topology of the Mixture but is notoriously dense when it comes to anything outside his Lacanian-Hegelian paradigm.

>> No.19012796

Rebelling against capitalism the global power structure is pointless, since you will not manage to truly free yourself. To actually fix future global problems, totalitarian measures are required. Being a rebel means that you lack the power and influence to convince others to follow the "science". So you might as well become the totalitarian government controlling the world yourself.

I can see that this is true, but I think he overestimates the ability of what would be a true global power. We see this with Russia and China. They are not controlled by the same elite as the west, and have their own elite with their own desires for power. They only align when it is convenient. Even if initially united, they will fracture shortly after. If humans are unable to organize non-corrupt capitalism nor non-totalitarian communism, then a global order will not be possible either. All of them are merely concepts from fiction. It would be better to just take the old fashioned approach. Mostly ignore it while trying to keep people happy enough to not revolt. Science will follow the profit motive, and might end up finding a solution along the way, even without global control. If no solution is found, eliminate those who stand in your way of survival.

>> No.19012839

>>19009055
>>19009104
sounds like old man slavoj is getting a little, shall we say, BASED... and also redpilled

>> No.19012859

>>19009736
Brcause the alternative seems to be turning into a screeching retard who literally takes horse medicine rather than the human equivalent.

>> No.19012863

>>19009055
IF FAT DEAFCONFIOUFNEFF BY HAF A NIFE LIFE?

>> No.19012939

>>19009070
fpbp and /thread

>> No.19013470

>>19012414
>Fighting windmills as the world actually marches into tyranny worse than anything the nazis ever did.
https://youtu.be/3cbwEdel4z4?t=159

>> No.19015122

more

>> No.19015223

>>19012859
>horse medicine
You're not only spineless but also disingenuous, faggot.

>> No.19017146
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19017146

>>19009215
>>19009259
> when you take Christian mysticism but detach the transcendent quality and apply your utopian materialist neuroticism instead
> this is the heart and soul of leftist ideology
well no wonder everything's fucked up