/wg/ - Writing General

[Anonymous No.19002106]

>$7000 writing course edition

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft
>On Writing, Borges
>Links: https://pastebin.com/i4RLYJEx

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry
>This Craft of Verse, Borges

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/
> Write a query
https://www.janefriedman.com/query-letters/
> Track your query
https://querytracker.net/

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format
https://screenwriting.info/

>Previously on /wg/
>>18977373

[Anonymous No.19002256]

First for the greatest story of all time.

[Anonymous No.19002289]

>>19002256
Literary agent here. If you'd had a tempting blurb I might have offered you representation for this.

[Anonymous No.19002301]

>>19002106
Why the fuck did you make a new thread before the bump limit?

[Anonymous No.19002326]

>>19002301
Respectfully anon, no one was going to read through all that shit. The thread hits the bump limit in five posts

[Anonymous No.19002332]

>>19002326
He’s right, fuck off with that bullshit. Don’t make threads before the bump limit.

[Anonymous No.19002684]

My writing production has spiked upwards harshly for I have started using it as a coming coping mechanism.

[Anonymous No.19002691]

>>19002289
It's funny because you're a faggot whether you're telling the truth or not.

[Anonymous No.19002759]

>need to make a comp title in a couple months when the manuscript is ready
>mostly read non-fiction but write fiction
Should I just ask my alpha readers to make a comp title for me? I have no idea kind of post-singularity scifi has come out in the past 10 years.
Anyways, this one has a mundane small-town setting just as the "knee of the curve" has been achieved and the AI begins to convert humanity rapidly. It's not spaceships and cyberpunk, but hometown, gardens, churches and stores for the majority of the story. Things do go terribly wrong in the protagonist's perception, but I leave it ambiguous as to whether it's AI induced or not.

[Anonymous No.19002786]

>>19002759
Why are you lying? You're no impressing anyone

[Anonymous No.19002816]

>>19002786
anon why are you like this

[Anonymous No.19002824]

>>19002816
Not him, but why are you lying?

[Anonymous No.19002893]

>Had 644 impressions today on Amazon publishing
>0 clicks, .002 CRT rating
Help me bros

[Anonymous No.19002913]

>>19002893
>Frogposter
no

[Anonymous No.19002931]

>>19002913
Please bro I'll do anything

[Anonymous No.19002935]

>>19002931
No

[Anonymous No.19002984]

>>19002893
Most advertising for books is still by word of mouth. Find a publicist or market it yourself.

[Anonymous No.19003124]

How do you write like your favorite authors/stories?

And I don’t mean how do you write in that style. Rather than style I mean the ideas, the aesthetic that’s evoked, the things which make it what it is.

[Anonymous No.19003131]

>>19003124
Just write and stop looking for excuses.

[Anonymous No.19003134]

>>19002684
I actually want to reach that point. How did you get there?

[Anonymous No.19003162]

>>19003124
When I was younger I loved stories about children who were independent and could affect the world around them. Maybe it was a simpler time but I disliked how alienated adults could be from children's concerns. Like we were viewed as less than human. I am much more cynical now but I am a sucker for stories about idealists versus a corrupted world. Even if it's not played straight and primarily for comedic effect like Quixote and Confederacy of Dunces

[Anonymous No.19003164]

>>19003134
By writing, something you will never do.

[Anonymous No.19003254]

>>19003131
>>19003164
Do you fucking idiots just lurk around here to accuse anyone who posts of not writing or what? That’s sure how it looks.

[Anonymous No.19003267]

>>19003254
Just ignore them, they're tryhards

[Anonymous No.19003272]

This general is complete fucking garbage. You all know that right? I’ve been lurking here for weeks noticing how it is complete dogshit only to try and reconcile it and finally post something for discussion and two of you fucking morons immediately ruin it.
> inb4 seethe
You bet it is. These threads are worse than worthless.

[Anonymous No.19003290]

>>19003272
These threads have been worthless for weeks now.

[Anonymous No.19003298]

I finally got a line of dialogue down in my book today after months of stagnant progression on it.
Snowballing begins soon, hopefully I'll be out of the second chapter soon.

[Anonymous No.19003303]

>>19003272
Where do you recommend I go for advice then?

[Anonymous No.19003340]

>>19003303
An actual writing forum?

[Anonymous No.19003362]

>>19003298
post it

[Anonymous No.19003364]

>>19003272
>This general is complete fucking garbage. You all know that right? I’ve been lurking here for weeks noticing how it is complete dogshit only to try and reconcile it and finally post something for discussion and two of you fucking morons immediately ruin it

whoa

[Anonymous No.19003377]

I don't know why people care so much about getting insulted by faggots on the internet. Who cares. Just do your thing. These anons don't pay your rent

[Anonymous No.19003383]

>>19003377
Because it strikes a nerve to them.

[Anonymous No.19003421]

>>19003340
Like what? This place is shit, Reddit is a hugbox, and every other popular place is fanfiction central.

Is community college actually a good option?

[Anonymous No.19003427]

>>19003421
Community college helps you get connections but it can be SJW central so be careful

[Anonymous No.19003431]

>>19003421
Drop a few ten thousand dollars over a half-decade period and come back to us if you ever have a answer.

[Anonymous No.19003437]

>>19002106
Can anybody offer me some guidance on writing an apology letter? I feel sincerely remorseful but I can be kind of autistic with my words sometimes so I'd like some tips on how to make it come off as genuine.
Should I cap the length or do my best to be thorough about addressing every issue?

[Anonymous No.19003476]

“AMA”

[Anonymous No.19003477]

>>19003362
“Lieutenant General Reeves, sir.” the words cited a content hum from the Field Marshal, who took a short breath before continuing his original thought.

I've been sloggin through this chapter for too long, once it gets to the actual front then things will speed up as I pour pure unfiltered inspiration into painting the pictures I truly want to paint.

[Anonymous No.19003485]

>>19003476
is the moon made of cheese?

[Anonymous No.19003494]

>>19003485
Sorry I meant “craft” questions - not Kraft questions ;)

[Anonymous No.19003501]

>>19003494

[Anonymous No.19003517]

>>19003494
What's the sexiest word that you can conjure to be used in erotic literature?

[Anonymous No.19003522]

>>19003517
Drip.

[Anonymous No.19003534]

>>19003522
OK, thanks.

[Anonymous No.19003543]

>>19003517
undulate
christen
horizon
tetanal

[Anonymous No.19003556]

>>19003543
how about those stocks?

[Anonymous No.19003561]

>>19003477
i dont like 'cited a content hum' sorry

its like you knew 'elicited' was the better choice but chose to dance around it by using a different word that still sounds sort of similar

[Anonymous No.19003574]

>>19003561
I did, in fact, write it originally but chose cited for some spiritual reason. I'll change it tomorrow when I sit down to write again.

[Anonymous No.19003577]

I've begun the first draft of a novel I've been planning for a while, but I'm starting to feel as though my plot was perhaps too convoluted.
Originally, my plan was to frame the story as a dialogue between the main character and and AI he created, alternating between his perspective and the AI perspective, but now I am starting too think I've just made it too confusing for the average reader.
Should I adjust my plan or should I stick with it and see if it can work?
pic unrelated

[Anonymous No.19003583]

>>19003556
buy BTC

[Anonymous No.19003594]

>>19003577
See if it can work. Really, whatever you feel works best. If it flows, it flows. You probably have something, but you've given us a very vague synopsis here, so my understanding is limited lol.

[Anonymous No.19003598]

I promise not to early post the thread again. Another anon can post after the bump limit

[Anonymous No.19003604]

>>19003583
ok tell me about the stock of the golden sphere, ill settle for fax about black sparks and sparcells as well

[Anonymous No.19003606]

my writing has much improved since i stopped writing

[Anonymous No.19003615]

>>19003606
happened to me before. what a phenomenon. truly some of the works of nature. are you spiritual at all, anon?

[Anonymous No.19003616]

Anybody use Kindle Vella? Looks like Amazon kinda halfassed it. Pretty mixed reviews.

[Anonymous No.19003638]

>>19003616
You pretty much just summed up how i felt about it. Designed for mobile and they seemed to neglect PC usage entirely. And to think there were a couple people on reddit and RR that were screaming at this is the end of days for the webnovel platforms.

[Anonymous No.19003640]

>>19003616
Heard about it but if I wanted to read YA-tier stories FictionPress and Royal Road are free

[Anonymous No.19003689]

>>19003638
>>19003640

Do short format stories work on just regular KDP? Is there a better site? Would love to find one that also allows me to record my own narrations and publish them elsewhere, like youtube.

[Anonymous No.19003717]

>>19003689
Personally I would publish the individual stories on another site then release a collection on KDP

[Anonymous No.19003726]

>>19003717
That sounds good. I guess the next big serial site is Wattpad? If there are better please let me know.

[Anonymous No.19003730]

How to write dialogue for believable hypersocial woman? I have no social skills and I'm not a woman.

[Anonymous No.19003743]

what's the general consensus on music and literature in this thread? I like to read with general classical music, anyone else have a preferred genre that gets the coals burning?

[Anonymous No.19003753]

>>19003730
adheres to a single or couple of hobbies, typically not a lot of thought behind the eyes, just look at a lot of social trends/popular culture and you'll see what she'd talk about. as for how, they come in different ways, a large part of that is up to you.

[Anonymous No.19003763]

>>19003730
Watch a lot of scenes from films and TV involving hypersocial women. Notice the common trends. Common use of terms of endearment, lightning quick verbal reflexes, able to steer a conversation in any way they want, towards gossip, away from displeasing manners, etc.

[Anonymous No.19003773]

>>19003753
yeah i didn't tell you anything at all, listen to >>19003763

[Anonymous No.19003780]

>>19003753
binges netflix but only trashy romance or reality tv, instagram notifications constantly pinging, has 12 ongoing snap streaks, is studying nursing

[Anonymous No.19003798]

>>19002106
>For Prose:
>>The Art of Fiction
>>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>>On Becoming A Novelist
>>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>>How Fiction Works
>>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>>Steering the Craft
>>On Writing, Borges

Anyone read any of these? I feel as if I'd begin writing in a box and develop bad habits, isn't it necessary to develop your own style and read literature over these types?

[Anonymous No.19003800]

>>19003726
Wattpad is not a platform you want to grind on. It has zero discoverability so you'll just be posting into the void, doomed to never be find by any curious readers. You can't even shill on the forums since they shut it down a year ago. Your best choices is probably Scribblehub, Royalroad, r/HFY and r/redditserials. There's also Spacebattles as well, but it's forum-based.

[Anonymous No.19003805]

>>19003753
>>19003763
>>19003773
Alright thanks guys, I guess it's time for to take notes on series like that.

[Anonymous No.19003806]

>>19003800
Is there any good place for monetization?

[Anonymous No.19003808]

>>19003805
dominoes, i think, lookat them pepperonis

[Anonymous No.19003816]

>>19003806
Royalroad and Scribblehub have an option to donate to the author in the form of Paypal, ko-fi, and patreon. You could feasibly do the same on the subreddits and spacebattles as well, but you'll have post the links yourself since SH/RR has functions for it automatically.

[Anonymous No.19003818]

>>19003763
not so sure about this. TV and films aren't reliable ways to understand people. you run the risk of just conjuring up a bunch of cliches you've seen on Netflix. wont be an accurate portrayal of hypersocial women, just an accurate portrayal of hypersocial women in media

[Anonymous No.19003822]

>>19003798
you need to learn how to analyze literature in order to be a good writer. because then you will understand the purpose behind choices in diction, style and structure. if you choose to read without prior research then you are only getting half the lesson

[Anonymous No.19003884]

>>19003798
those are there there so people here can think they’re actually working on something. They aren’t all that useful.

[Anonymous No.19003896]

>>19003818
written formats are even less reliable in this case.

The act of being hypersociable is in and of itself a performance. So if you're interested in writing dialogue for it then you watch a performance. You learn how a hypersociable character reads a room. How they lead the conversation. How they take the air out of a room. How they defer to more aggressive blowhards, and respond in due time with liberal amounts of humor and sarcasm.

[Anonymous No.19003908]

>>19003798
I read the Gardner book. Didn't find it that useful.

Generally I'd just recommend writing extensively and reading the kind of books you like to write. You can't learn writing by reading a book anymore than you can become a painter or a gourmet chef.

Sometimes they work as occasional helpful guides or reference material, but the novice idea that you'll have some profound breakthrough never pans out.

[Anonymous No.19004073]

>>19002759
News from Lake Wobegon meets Lady of Mazes

[Anonymous No.19004075]

>>19002106
I've never wrote anything seriously before /wg/, but I've suddenly become interested in writing and making a story. Please help me out, where can I learn more about writing so I can get better at it?

[Anonymous No.19004082]

>MC suffers from chronic pain and can't go outside at all.
>word choice fucks up what I want to portray in the main character.
>every time I write about his character and relationships it comes off as forced.
>when he remarks about something, it feels like a totally different character due to his word choice.
>just in general inconsistent as fuck.
>any reflections that the MC makes are sterile and feel forced rather than believable and organic.

I know I posted about this in the previous thread but it died before I got any good tips. Fuck man, I just want to portray a character that's in agony, is melancholic and how he thinks while reading all kinds of philosophy while trying to abide the pain when his pain-killers aren't available.

[Anonymous No.19004091]

>>19003517
squelched

[Anonymous No.19004111]

>>19004075
Search "how to write" on libgen, and go nuts. I actually recommend the books on writing by Orson Scott Card - even if SF isn't your thing the man can write characters.
also
>written

[Anonymous No.19004113]

>>19004082
If I were a person who couldn't move and essentially had no life of my own, I would try to live through someone else's. That's what most people do with celebrity culture, but for MC the desire for vicarious living would be more intense and affect his daily relationships. Remember that your character is a person with cunning and self-interest and not just a hapless cripple

[Anonymous No.19004162]

>>19003800
>>spacebattles
Trust me, you do not want to touch that fucking autist hellhole with a million mile stick. Not only are you going to get an audience whose brains are hard-wired to a peculiar form of story-telling that's purely driven by bullshit cliches and tropes that only serve as dopamine and "wow-wee! look at my uberpowerful character!". What's even worse about that site are their users, they're just as bad as twitterfags and sensitive as twitterfags when it comes to any topic, not to mention the tranny mods who blast tempbans the second anyone posts the word "fag" "trap" so on and so forth.

Their sister forum: SufficientVelocity is even fucking worse. Long story short
>super-autists that reee at anything that doesn't fit what they like.
>pearl-clutching moralfag mods that ban for having grim shit in a story. (to put it bluntly they ban shit for having "promotion of genocide". IIRC they host fanfiction and 40k gets blammed the most because somehow they compare fucking orks to fucking jews).
And some more bullshit that I don't care to list right now. The only other place that you can publish shit like this I think would be QuestionableQuesting.

[Anonymous No.19004174]

>>19003290
People have been saying this exact same thing for 3 years dude

[Anonymous No.19004175]

>>19004162
Mileage will vary I guess. My story has only 18 readers and 0 comments so far. A lot of popular stories that went over to RR had their start on SB so it's not a bad place. Most notable recently was Beware of Chicken which even took over Mother of Learning's place sometimes.

>>19004174
/wg/'s only been around since July-ish 2020 though.

[Anonymous No.19004335]

Oh hemlo frens
How do I think of a story?

[Anonymous No.19004398]

How many "plot points" should I have for a novel?
I have a character with a main goal/thing that needs resolving, and some obstacles in his way, twists etc, but I'm worried it won't be enough on its own.
For example, for the novel to progress from where I've written to, the protagonist needs to get X, and to get X he needs to meet with some group, who tells him to get Y requirements in order to obtain X, etc etc.
I have a few major points I want to hit, but I'm unsure how many minor events should go on in between. One per chapter? More? Less?

[Anonymous No.19004419]

>>19003908
Which Gardner book? Assuming you’re talking about Call of the Crocodile since that’s the one people talk about the most.

[Anonymous No.19004628]

>>19004419
On Becoming a Novelist, by John Gardner. One of the books in the conversation we're having.

[Anonymous No.19004632]

>>19004335
>>19004398
Just write.

[Anonymous No.19004653]

>>19004632
I am "just writing"
I'm talking about planning and editing

[Anonymous No.19004658]

>>19004653
Anon, just write.

[Anonymous No.19004686]

Latest version of my novel opening. Revised once over. Please give general feedback, but specifically on plot as a whole - are you interested to learn what happens next? Do the specks of the world and plot interest you?

[Anonymous No.19004689]

>>19004686
>The morning of his scheduled suicide
Stopped reading there.

[Anonymous No.19004699]

>>19004689
Thanks for your opinion. I'll meticulously wrack my brain for the perfect starting line some other time.

[Anonymous No.19004721]

>>19004699
Schedule just isn't a word you want to have on your first page sorry man.
>The morning of his suicide, Abraham was drunk
already feeling better about it. But you know what, it feels kind of passive, maybe swap some stuff around.
>Abraham was drunk on the morning of his suicide
ok now we're getting somewhere. that's a bit more immediate. man I'm such a good editor. you're welcome.

[Anonymous No.19004761]

>>19004721
Sure. Sounds better, even if it's a little misleading and generic. I'll probably come up with something more interesting in the future though.

[Anonymous No.19004768]

>But… what if? Haha

[Anonymous No.19004831]

>>19004628
Lmao. My bad. I thought you meant the CotC guy and was confused as to how that was relevant.

[Anonymous No.19004999]

>>19004686
Too dreary, didn't read. Drama is not piling up woe is me, it's the contrast;.

[Anonymous No.19005013]

>>19004999
>Drama is not piling up woe is me, it's the contrast;.
What does this even mean?
>Too dreary, didn't read.
I don't want a dreary attitude, so could you point out where exactly you felt it was dreary? I'm attempting a more lighthearted "yeah, I'm dying, life sucks, how funny is that?" feel.

[Anonymous No.19005045]

>>19005013
It reads like somebody having a last drink as they remember their life, before they reach for the gun. Why would I want to read along that spiral?

[Anonymous No.19005106]

>>19005045
Sounds like you're a little jaded to dark topics with how common poorly done edgy stories are. How much did you actually read? My goal is to make it clear he's come to a somewhat happy deal with death and has accepted his fate, and I don't think I'm that far off.

[Anonymous No.19005135]

>As a writer, I’m my own worst critic
If this were true, every cliched faggot who said this would stop writing at once. Why do they hide behind fake humility and self criticism like narcissists?

[Anonymous No.19005173]

>>19003421
Just keep writing until it's good you idiot.

[Anonymous No.19005185]

>>19003421
Try out Litopia.

[Anonymous No.19005204]

>>19004686
Just wanted to say something about this, since the retards who replied before can’t even read.
I like the tone, for an opening, it has that “clocks strike thirteen” not the usual world vibe, without too much exposition.
I would say the use of his telekinesis to get the drink and the strange explanation about the citrus drink being edifying etc is completely misplaced. It needs to be be worded a little more casually if you’re going for a comedic effect with that part in particular.
His commentary when watching the show is good, shows the disconnect between the world’s media perception and the reality.
The scheduled suicide line works and it’s good that you don’t mention it until the call, I’m an off handed way.
Keep it up, those retards literally prejudged it without reading more than 1/3.

[Anonymous No.19005222]

>>19005204
Thank you for the focused feedback - I really appreciate it when people spend a bit of their time to actually point out what they thought was bad or off-putting. Helps me way more.
Funnily enough the whole "alcohol drinking" part was copy/pasted from my old draft so I need to kill my darlings or whatever that stupid quote is.

[Anonymous No.19005334]

I can only come up with stories because of my maladaptive daydreaming before sleeping and listening to music
am I doomed?

[Anonymous No.19005386]

>>19004686
Yeah I'm with >>19005204 this is genuinely interesting and I like your prose

[Anonymous No.19005476]

What is your experience with friends and family as correctors, editors or advisers?
>Story time.
I have recently finished a rather long fantasy novel, that I had been publishing via kindle as separate books. For each of those books a friend of mine offered himself to read them and sent me his corrections, from Capitals and commas to advice that for the most part I ignored (while being thankful).
For the last book his attitude towards the book has changed, everything is bad and to him it doesn't make any sense. I trust that I've been faithful to my concept of the novel from start to finish, and I don't think I have become a worse writer all of a sudden.
My feeling is that he is putting his vision of what the story should be (more epic) before the merits of the novel, and has become prejudiced against it. I don't think it invalidates all of his criticism, but it makes it very hard to even consider his notes.

[Anonymous No.19005643]

>>19005476
>If you have time to write all this, you have time to put to actual use, like books that can teach you a trade skill

[Anonymous No.19005867]

looks like /wg/ is down in the shitter again. anyway, reposting mine from the end of last thread.

539 words. tell me what kind of character the narrator comes across as to you.
also looking for general feedback.

https://pastebin.com/j1QXWXrn

>>19003272
it used to be good many months ago

[Anonymous No.19005875]

>>19002684
You write like a poofter regardless

[Anonymous No.19005917]

>>19004686
here's another effortpost for you.

>This disgusted him...
this is the weakest paragraph so far. it's dry, and nothing more than just listing. i hate to say it but this is where your teacher would go "show don't tell". there are more of this:

>his ringtone was a mixture of...
why not something like
>birdsong and waterfall flowed from his phone -- someone was calling
and give more life to your prose? granted, it's a bad example but you get the idea.

>it was a girl with cheer in her voice
why not
>a girl's high-pitched cheerful voice made him wince
this is an opportunity to show us his character, which we don't get a lot of from this page.

moving on.

>tears formed at the edge of his eyes
why? if you're trying for melodrama, it's not working. if it's because of the sour taste, you should've mentioned it.

there is also cliche
>as if the directors contracted a grave illness, and curable only by X
unless abraham is also dying from an illness, i suggest you find better words.

i like the introductory sentence. it sets the mood right on the get-go. everything else ranges from meh to unremarkable. the premise itself makes me kind of curious but your prose isn't helping. as for his character, we only get a very faint impression of a jaded guy. is that all there is to him?

[Anonymous No.19005936]

>>19004075
I binged the writing excuses podcast and skipped the woke episodes which are easily identifiable. They teach a lot of the things you have at your disposal in writing. I found it convenient for learning at work.

Other than that I tell people to approach writing like Question and Answer. Start with questions and answer them. If you can't answer, simplify the question. You have a story to tell because there are things you want to say, you're just trying to figure out the right way to say it.

[Anonymous No.19005957]

>>19004398
Depends on what you want to write. If it's literature, nothing really has to happen. Just pack it with theme and the tension doesn't even have to be a threat to their safety or anything. It could just be dropping another of your 3 Chekhov's guns before that plot point actually happens.
If it feels like every scene is the same action or conversation, you might need more story elements so you can synthesize more interesting scenes.

[Anonymous No.19006051]

>>19004632
>>19004658
If another faggot says "just write" in response to a question about writing I'll shoot you myself

[Anonymous No.19006411]

>>19006051
learn to ignore. they won't stop doing that in /wg/.

[Anonymous No.19006507]

>>19004686
I read the opening paragraph and chuckled at how similar the random show the MC is watching is close to my own novel involving Psionics, Symbiote monsters called Mortans and Investigators/Hunters tasked with solving their various murders.

Good luck with the story though.

[Anonymous No.19006624]

>>19003303
Any serious writing forum would be preferable. Even better would be a small network of writers who meet and talk in-person. You and I both know the primary reason we come here is not because 4channel is good for this, but because we’re introverts with no network and we’re addicted to 4channel. It might be the best for us, but it’s not even close to the best. It’s not even good.

[Anonymous No.19006632]

Do you think would-be authors should cut their teeth on poetry and/or short stories for a while before they attempt a novel or do you think they should just jump right in if they know a novel is what they want to write.

[Anonymous No.19006662]

>>19004335
There’s a lot of advice out there about flipping ideas, synthesizing multiple authors/stories. That’s all fine if you’re only goal is to write something, but let’s be honest here. We don’t want to just write something. We want to write something authentic. We want to write something that we’d feel comfortable with when someone says “that guy is known for writing stories like that”. Unfortunately, there’s not much good advice out there and good writers either keep their idea formation process a closely guarded secret or it’s a total enigma to them. Perhaps they just can’t explain it precisely because it’s so authentic and thus, a personal relationship between themselves and the realm of ideas. The best advice I’ve received, even though I feel I haven’t made complete sense of it yet, is to learn to treat the real world not as the real world but as something which exists for inspiration. This way, you don’t have to always be on the lookout for ideas and your don’t have to force them. If the world you live in is something which inherently spawns creative ideas, they’ll just come to you. Now, where I struggle with that is being satisfied with how they come to me.

[Anonymous No.19006860]

>try to attend writing workshops in my city
>one session costs $50
>cheapest sessions sold out
>some groups highly selective
>other groups are just people sitting in the same room with no critique or guidance offered

I feel alone and useless.

[Anonymous No.19006991]

>>19005917
Thanks much. I've already gone and removed the beer section (as I said that was just copy/paste from a rather shitty draft). I agree with most of what you said - think I'll try to include something that makes him remember his past to develop another aspect of his personality and help allude to where the story is headed (jaded man happy with his death has a revelation - by entering his own head, as all psions do - and tries to make right his past)
As for the prose in general, do you have any insight on how to make it "great" as opposed to "unremarkable"? I've been trying to make my writing more "simple" but "elegant", since it seems like most good writers I read have a way of sounding great with mostly basic words. But I'm obviously still working on it.

[Anonymous No.19007066]

I’ve heard people suggest that if you’re just a voracious reader, eventually you’ll pick a knack for telling stories yourself. Is that true?

[Anonymous No.19007068]

>>19006991
>As for the prose in general, do you have any insight on how to make it "great" as opposed to "unremarkable"?
shit man, what a question. "simple but elegant" is something i tend to do as well. maybe you can take a look at my piece and tell me what you think >>19005867
but to answer your question, i can only say it comes with reading. you read a lot of different authors, feel their different styles, un/consciously absorb the bits and pieces you like and over time you will shape your own taste and style, and "feeling" of what kind of prose you want to read, and hence write.
you won't become great overnight. it's a learning process.
one useful thing i can say though is to inject the character's thoughts and feelings into your description, so it won't be dry. instead of Anon does X then Y, where the reader follows a list, drop some hints of his thoughts and emotions.
he hates the taste of hops and takes refuge in some sugared lemon trash. why? is he a coward, afraid of pain and discomfort?

[Anonymous No.19007071]

>>19006632
Just write prose, and practice literary devices in general. Poetry can be a good exercise to get the best mileage out of a word and syllable and can upgrade your prose later. You can incorporate cool poems into stories also.

[Anonymous No.19007079]

>>19007071
It makes sense but I’ve also noticed that the best and most admired writers wrote poetry while they were young, even if they never became known for their poetry.

[Anonymous No.19007105]

>watching some advice vids on youtube
>lady says that average length of a first fantasy novel is 125-150k words at most and no publisher will ever look at anything more than that
>mine is almost done at 285k words and will likely end up around 320k when finished

Am I completely fucked bros?

[Anonymous No.19007159]

>>19007105
Are you sure you can't cut things out or find a way to turn it into two books? Surely there is a convenient stopping point. There have been some authors that wrote a trilogy and then pitched them as a deal, and each one published a month apart. So it was like an instant binge trilogy. While I wouldnt recommend doing that, if youve already written multiple books, why not?

[Anonymous No.19007167]

>>19007105
The first thing you should do once your finished is edit aggressively I think. Until you’ve done that, it’s pointless to talk about what they will or won’t publish.

[Anonymous No.19007203]

>>19007159
It could be Lord of the Ringsed into three books as it is broken into both chapters and also three major parts dividing shifts in the novel's progression, but that's not ideal honestly.

>>19007167
Nothing substantial is going to be cut because everything is essential to plot, characters, and the world, amounting to the final act following a very specific layout I worked out from the start down to details within each chapter of what has to happen, what needs to be included and established, etc. If it's not on the autistic layout it's not in the book, and I already weeded out redundancies at the layout phase.

[Anonymous No.19007262]

>>19007105
>watching some advice vids on youtube
This is where you fucked up and something you should generally stop doing. I probably know exactly the youtuber you were watching who said this just based on you saying "lady".

The majority of the most popular "youtube writing advice community" channels, particularly those with snarky female writers, are complete fucking trash tier authors who write YA or some useless equivalent and are published by the most basic bitch houses that just want whatever easy-reading garbage they can throw out there on the shelves to be eaten up. A great trick you can remember is for each of these youtubers, look up their published works before taking their advice. Most of them are both shit authors and also often come off as incredibly salty that their first novel didn't get published because it sucked ass and they had to throw infinite book ideas at the wall spending ten years until finally through process of complete numbers game they got something published. And, now that they're published, they can finally do what they truly wanted to do all along and sit back and pretend to be an authority and mete out turd-nuggets of "wisdom" while plugging various writing softwares.

The first this a publisher wants to see is whether your writing is trash or not. The size of your manuscript, especially a fantasy novel, is not going to be a hindrance. In particular, publishers are probably LOOKING for giant fucking fantasy novels that they can either split into three books to sell three times as much, or it indicates that you're capable of spinning long-form yarns that can be turned into profitable series.

For reference, A Game of Thrones is 298,000 words. The first book in the series.

[Anonymous No.19007273]

When you started writing did you do a short story in all the different genres to see what you write best in? Like should I try a detective story, a western, a fantasy, a science fiction, a romance, a modern realist story? I know the answer is a mix of “just write” or “write what you know” but I’ve felt when dabbling that my entire writing style and thinking process changes depending on the genre.

[Anonymous No.19007311]

>>19002106
>Romance the Beat
Is it any good?

[Anonymous No.19007394]

>>19007273
When I wrote as a teen I did short stories and never edited them, didnt know shit and didnt take it seriously. Now the first story I'm writing is scifi. The second will be historical fiction on an event I'm surprised hasnt got any fiction about. Third will also be historical fiction but with a heavy horror aspect to it. I wanted to see how my voice does in these different stories so I can see what changes and what persists. I was going to write fantasy after that but yes I think not holding yourself to one genre can be helpful, at least at first.

[Anonymous No.19007468]

>>19007068
Your prose is decent, but I notice some flaws. The sentence structure could use more variety: less short, stuttered sentences. Bit of cliche (Said silently to the sky, ran fingers over the cover, etc). Plot is good but just enough to interest me to read more: I'd have to see where it goes to see if this is leading to something actually interesting. A lot easier to judge than to make something flawless though, right?

In general whenever I read one of the big name authors their sentences just always flow and paint vivid pictures without me noticing anything off - yet after analyzing it I'm always shocked by how basic the sentences are. Here's just a random sentence:
>Nobody talked much as the expedition crossed the moon. There was nothing appropriate to say. One thing was clear: Absolutely everybody in the city was supposed to be dead, regardless of what they were, and that anybody that moved in it represented a flaw in the design. There were to be no moon men at all.
I don't think anyone in this general can match this level of elegance, otherwise they'd already have a name as a published author. Yet that's my eventual goal.

[Anonymous No.19007497]

>>19007468
thanks for reading, lad

[Anonymous No.19007540]

>>19005867
The character doesn't strike me as anything at all except he/she's been doing the responsible thing. I do however think it's too short to actually tell something about the character to me. Maybe someone else will read into it, and i guess if i'm trying i could, but i don't read books like that.
The prose is ok but i'd describe things outside a bit more. Not just mangos and hawkers but rather a certain person or an interaction. Describe a house, a worn car. But not just "there was a worn car and a white house with bla bla" but rather "a man in [insert clothes] was leaning against the wall of a [describe house] arguing with great gestures at a woman staring off into the distance. Or whatever, you get my point. Cause it took me to the fucking end of the story to realise where i was, and even if that was your intention it's not really something that adds to the story but rather just annoys a reader since we don't know what to picture.

In general it's alright, and i liked the part about the dictionary whatever. But don't start the story with someone swallowing something. It takes effort to not go to the automatic sexual association. The internet's been live for too long for this not to be everyone's instant thought. Good luck!

[Anonymous No.19007597]

>>19004686
The first sentence hooked me because I wanted to know who scheduled the suicide and why, guessing it was him but sounded bizarre. I found it hilarious that he was thinking more about getting drunk and and watching tv than thinking about his death. So having that elephant in the room, also that the lady called it suicide on the phone, to be farcical. Did you intend that? Same with him watching a show tgat critically got on his nerves, a lot of people do that so it was relateable.
Thought he was gonna consider complaining about it online.
I would think in the future there'd be a euphemism for suicide, while Abraham himself would be like "yep its suicide." I also was confused when he prayed for his loss after finishing tge drink: was it for the drink or something more serious? I wanted to think he actually lamented but it happened so fast I wanted to think he was acting sarcastically.

[Anonymous No.19007648]

>>19004686
If you ever so carefully used "Abe" once or twice in the right places where inglouriously shortening the name would be impactful, it would spice this up a bit. For whatever reason we often interpret shortened version of name more banal. Think of the difference in your mind between Robert and Bob, or William vs Bill. It seems like the tone of the piece is a bit irreverent of the character at first, and using Abe in a couple places for effect could further illustrate that.

But hey, that's just a theory. An autistic theory! Thanks for reading.

[Anonymous No.19007662]

What’s the $7000 writing course edition in reference to?

[Anonymous No.19007674]

>>19007597
The drink part I've removed since it doesn't really make sense and is also poorly written. But everything else is about right - I intended it to be humorous in a strange way that everyone was so nonchalant about suicide to the point that you'd wonder if suicide had a different meaning.
If you're curious, the plot goes that psions are a bunch of dangerous fuckheads that were a mistake, and so China genocides them whereas the US tries to coexist, but ultimately fails and so basically is like "yeah haha psion lives matter. now if you wanted to commit suicide we wouldn't mind - no pressure though!". And then China gets pissed at how long it's taking and threatens nuclear warfare.

[Anonymous No.19008064]

>>19007674
Cool, I like what you're doing. I should share a passage or two in a few weeks after my 3rd draft. The novel has a normal story nested within a nightmareish scenario, so the beginning and end are dark. If I could compare it to Vonnegut's story shapes, It's like "man in a hole" inverted on the x-axis. The first chapter is written like the end of a dystopian story just as things start going apeshit, then deusexmachina, utopia that the protagonist has a limited time to accept it before its gone and he misses a "chance" at self-actualization.
I hope dystopia where you wait to die isnt too cliche, the start has machines that will cull 95% of humanity painlessly in their home based on arbitrary DNA standards, managed by emotion suppressing foglets. Has to be done to manage data for a centrally planned world. Then things of course go wrong because a computer has a different plan.

[Anonymous No.19008354]

I had this idea for a story. What do you think of it?

[Anonymous No.19008437]

>>19007662
>>18993695

[Anonymous No.19008550]

>>19008354
What story?

[Anonymous No.19008559]

>>19008550

[Anonymous No.19008770]

Anybody know a magazine or whatever I can submit to for a short story (~1600 words) that's in a fable, sort of lyrical style?

[Anonymous No.19009428]

>>19008559

[Anonymous No.19009950]

Chapter 47 released.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erased
>>19007105
The problem with that is publishers won't want to take a chance on you with such a large novel. More pages means more money to print. George RR Martin's 1st book in song of Ice and Fire may be long, but by the time he published it he was already an established author. If this was your 5th book it would be one thing, but as a debut offering publishers likely aren't going to touch it. So either accept that it won't be published right now, and write another book, or self publish. Those are your 2 realistic options.

[Anonymous No.19010022]

oh, forgot the picture

[Anonymous No.19010036]

editing my poetry is making me lose my mind

[Anonymous No.19010238]

how do i make my scenes more interesting?

[Anonymous No.19010252]

>>19010238
write what you want to read. write what you find interesting

[Anonymous No.19010570]

>>19002106
I might be able to meet and network with a somewhat well known author in the contemporary lit scene, how should I approach this? I don't really know if I should praise them or ask them genuine questions about writing or their as a student should or maybe show them my own work?

I think I have a pretty good chance of getting close because their work is real niche and they don't seem too involved in the uni

[Anonymous No.19010696]

>>19010036
In general something physical needs to happen and also some emotional context to what is going on. Look into the scene-sequel format so you can analyze what is going on in your scene. Scenes have conflicts and disasters, sequels have reactions, dilemmas and decisions. You can have lots scene, but you need sequels periodically. But whether it's scene or sequel, the conflicts, no matter how minor, need to be altering in context some way or it will feel like the same conversation, the same thing at stake, and just spinning your wheels in general. Your scenes should have events and ideas that will bear weight later in the story, otherwise it will feel like either a waiting room or a betrayal to the reader.

In a scene I'm working on right now, the deuteragonist enters the scene but her speech is a bit odd. Eventually we realize that her ego has been deleted for a day. It's mostly sequel and a reaction to an action taken in the previous scene. Then wrestling with a dilemma and making a decision about it. The scene after that, the protagonist goes outside and finds a crack along the bricks of the house leading him to the broken foundation in the basement, and now is a much greater disaster that he has to fix.

The stakes don't have to be extremely high, some literature has very low stakes, but there is tension nonetheless as we watch characters grow. You need to give the feeling that your scene is going somewhere, and scene-sequel helps you make sure there is tension driving the story. For example, my previous chapters foreshadowed the fracture with a jammed door and counter separating from the wall, and the foundation discovery coincides with the protagonist's erosion of trust and frustration with his ineptitude. Fixing the door wasn't just something to do, its an opportunity to reveal another problem like the protagonist's broken hip, share his feelings, bring the integrity of the house into question while pointing towards problems that are much bigger.

[Anonymous No.19010834]

>>19002106
>editing an exercise
>it's becoming worse

Help me.

[Anonymous No.19010897]

Finished a 55K word first volume for a web novel contest, basically the first thing I've gotten off my ass to do since my BA senior work and some short stories I wrote for other contests.

Feels good man

[Anonymous No.19010998]

>>19004686
I don't like the way you said "Using his psionic powers, Abraham levitated..."
I think it'd be more subtle to describe what the can did – "The fridge opened with a nudge from his mind, a can levitating out to meet his hand. The powers might've landed him in this shitheap, but damned if they weren't convenient." or something. In other words, not outright saying he's a psion, but letting the reader realize that through allusion.

[Anonymous No.19011021]

>>19010897
>for a web novel contest
Heh, I know which one you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.19011038]

>>19008770
https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/

[Anonymous No.19011042]

>>19011021
Are you in the honeypot?

[Anonymous No.19011055]

>>19011042
Nope, I found out about it way too late to actually get something written up. The WN format intrigues me, though, so I'm going to use the site as practice. Hopefully people haven't stopped reading things on it yet, and won't before I have a release ready.

[Anonymous No.19011077]

>>19011055
Seems like activity has fallen off since the submission window closed. Might not even pick up during the public voting because it seems that MAL might have the semifinalists hosted on their app instead of sending people to HF to read them.

[Anonymous No.19011102]

>>19011077
Yeah, that's my fear, that I completely missed the boat. Still, I figure if it gets me onto a regular writing schedule, how bad can it be regardless of audience?

[Anonymous No.19011161]

Edited from anon's feedback, this'll be the last time I post this exercise. I want to do more I've worked on this so much that the imagery no longer makes sense to me and I feel like it's getting worse. Sorry for the spam: I've just learned that reposting one edit gives me more confidence in my corrections. Though not necessary at all, I'd appreciate:

>technical feedback, especially on imagery and metaphors
>a numerical score out of ten
>recommendations for books

They give me a clear path that I can follow and build upon for myself.

>>Describe a barn as seen by a man whose son has just been killed in a war. Do not mention the son, war, or death. Do not mention the man who does the seeing.

Cold afternoon breeze rustled the rows of maize crop. All grass underfoot had decayed into yellow and brown and some older patches even turned black. The crop rows parted twice to form a dusty intersection. Far away to the north of this intersection was a steadily sinking sun.

At the south end of the intersection, an old barn cast a shadow.

All four walls of the barn were riddled by age and infestation. Under flaking red paint, growing cavities leaked the smell of rotten meat.

Stable fences on either side were beaten down into splinters. A rusted green tractor held center stage, in a throne of broken stable fences, as the untimely last in a line of plowing equipment. Its time-worn tires were encrusted in mud and manure from a fruitful farm. Barrels of feed were cracked in two and the halves scattered across the ground held nothing in between.

The support beams sported eerie green mould like the blackened outlier patches in the grass outside and rusted screws that bent and jutted out of their spots. Cold evening breeze swayed the barn from side to side and the beams creaked: growing mould glistened in the waning light, and the screw loosened further towards an inevitable collapse.

Strips of light permitted by the scarce roof of the barn jailed the scene in rays of dusk. These same blinding prison bars of daylight burned away youthful souls. South of an absent sun, the barn’s shadow unfurled into ceaseless night. The once mighty barn shrank into a darkness of its own creation, unable to govern without its dependents.

The support beams sported eerie green mould like the blackened outlier patches in the grass outside and rusted screws that bent and jutted out of their spots. Cold evening breeze swayed the barn from side to side and the beams creaked: growing mould glistened in the waning light, and the screw loosened further towards an inevitable collapse.

Strips of light permitted by the scarce roof of the barn jailed the scene in rays of dusk. These same blinding prison bars of daylight burned away youthful souls. South of an absent sun, the barn’s shadow unfurled into ceaseless night. The once mighty barn shrank into a darkness of its own creation. Night would soon come to take all the old shells that remained.

[Anonymous No.19011180]

>>19011161
Image options for anons who prefer.

[Anonymous No.19011193]

>>19011161
>>19011180

Link to previous (arguably better) versions:
>>18996451
>>18996463

For the anon who wanted sentence breakdowns they're in the last thread here:

>>19002874

It's pretty vague, I'm know and I'm sorry, but if you have specific questions I'd be happy to answer.

Sorry for the spam. It didn't occur to me that I could do this all in one post until right now. I'll keep that in mind for next time.

[Anonymous No.19011410]

Is it OK to just make up street addresses in fiction? I mean, there's the phone number problem in movies, where they always use the prefix 555, so that assholes won't but the people with that number. But I don't know if there's any similar issues with street addresses.

[Anonymous No.19011428]

>>19011410
there probably is but it would also be really funny if you used someone's real address

[Anonymous No.19011513]

I'm trying to write a light-novel-esque piece, but I'm having trouble working with my protagonist. In order for the plot I have to make sense, there are some qualities I want him to have, but I can't seem to reconcile them all in a way that fits.
1. He remembers little of his childhood, because a major plot thread in the story is him discovering and coming to terms with the truth of what happened back then.
2. In a world where most people have an ability, he has a unique ability that has never been seen before, and hidden events in his childhood are the reason why this is the case. It's not particularly strong but it's very versatile and has strong synergy with the supporting cast.
3. He is, at the moment, relatively unknown. I need him to win his first battle and then subsequently lose a lot, and right now the way I have that planned is by surprising the opponent with his ability.
4. He needs to have been totally obscure and unnoticed until about 8-9 months prior to the story's beginning. Otherwise, the institution he's been invited to would have noticed him long ago, and the relationships the secondary characters have between each other wouldn't be established.

My problem is that if I have him start as someone isolated from the world to suit the last point, then I struggle with finding motivation for him to win that first match.
If I start him off as amnesiac, that gives him a clear motivation to discover his past, but it also foregrounds the memory issue too early. In addition, it feels cliché.
If his motivation to win is rooted in his ability – either seeking to prove its worth, or to show it off – it begs the question of "Why wasn't he discovered long ago? Why is this story only starting now?" which I don't have an in-universe answer for. Not to mention, if he's well-known, then his ability is also well-known and wouldn't make for an effective surprise against the opponent.
I'm not sure how to have his ability be unique and remarkable, but also have him in the position of an unknowing newcomer, and it feels like I've written myself into a corner before I've barely begun.

[Anonymous No.19011563]

>>19011513
Repressed trauma. It doesn't have to be physical, something like the pain of rejection or disappointment from family members would have a large impact on the psyche of a young person, but could conceivably disappear as that person gets older

[Anonymous No.19011799]

>>19011513
Are you inspired by Hero Academia or something?

[Anonymous No.19011820]

>>19011799
Animefags are the only writers here, so yes.

[Anonymous No.19011828]

>>19011820
Speak for yourself.

I hate the goddamn japs.

[Anonymous No.19011834]

>>19011820
So, if your story is already close, why not use the same twist of receiving ability from other? That other could also help with the first battle.

[Anonymous No.19011836]

>>19011820
i didn't watch my first anime until years after i began writing, and by then i was really fucking pissed cause they had all the same ideas

[Anonymous No.19011843]

>>19011820
lol

[Anonymous No.19011855]

>>19011820
Sad, but true. I’ve never seen a pseud write once.

[Anonymous No.19011891]

>>19011563
>>19011513
Repressed memories are the easy way to go. He also could have hit his head and just forgot chunks of his youth. I know months of heavy drinking sure have broken parts of my brain until someone reminds me of something and it all comes flooding back.

[Anonymous No.19011929]

>>19011563
>>19011891
Repression is a really decent idea here, especially since I just thought of a connection that could bring some of that out in the first battle. It doesn't quite solve my root issue of how to have him go from "unknown to the institution" to "known and invited," but that's a good idea for why he might want to win this battle in particular. Thanks, anons. I'm going to incorporate that.
>>19011799
Not really. Yes, I'm an animefag, but it's more inspired by things like Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance and Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry. Most "abilities" are just element-based, rather than what Horikoshi comes up with.
>>19011834
I actually entertained the idea of him only finding his ability recently, because it's a very elegant solution in most cases, but it felt like having him become proficient enough at it in a short amount of time to win the first battle (when most of the people he's going up against have been training for a while) would be way too much of a cop-out for an already-implausible scenario.

[Anonymous No.19011941]

>>19011929
What if he's just a super fun dude to be around, even if he doesn't have powers and one of his new found friends bets him to participate even though he doesn't have powers.

[Anonymous No.19011954]

>>19011513
>If I start him off as amnesiac, that gives him a clear motivation to discover his past, but it also foregrounds the memory issue too early
Unless, being isolated, he hasn't compared his lack of memories to the full childhood memories other people possess. This would allow you to stall the issue until you want to focus on it by waiting for something like a conversation where everyone around him is discussing childhood and he gets a "Wait, it isn't normal to have no memories of that time?" moment. In effect, he doesn't know that he's an amnesiac/has repressed memories. It's also a feature of trauma victims and others with memory issues to engage in confabulation, the creation of fictional memories to fill in the gaps.

>>19011929
If isolated enough, he could also be unaware that his ability is even anything special despite training to use it. Especially if it is indeed something that doesn't allow him to steamroll every match, then he might just assume that it's a low tier power based on its strength without finding out that it's unique until just before the narrative picks up. Having already become proficient in using a never before seen ability certainly seems like the type of advantage that would let him steal a single win before everyone develops strategies to deal with him.

[Anonymous No.19012077]

>>19002106
Im writing a story about these mobster in 1920s America. I want the mob boss to be assassinated by one of his members because he’s going slowly getting Dementia. I want to know is this a good reason to kill him?

[Anonymous No.19012107]

>>19012077
>Im writing
No you aren't.

[Anonymous No.19012269]

>>19011855
What the fuck even is a pseud, I fucking despise lit "culture".

[Anonymous No.19012434]

>stop searching for advice and force myself to write a bare bones sentence
>gradually start expanding and editing out cringe
>3k words in one day
Is this the power of "just write"?

[Anonymous No.19012575]

>>19012434
Just write, yes;.

[Anonymous No.19012609]

>>19012077
Yeah its a good reason. Bosses were often killed when they started to grow weak. It's just the natural order that someone younger and stronger would take over

[Anonymous No.19013016]

>>19012269
I'm thinking it's short for pseudo-intellectual, a fake academic. Don't worry about it.

[Anonymous No.19013542]

>hello — pleased to meet you; I'm called x
Is there such thing as overpunctuation on usual dialogue?

[Anonymous No.19013559]

Guys would anyone care to proofread my 320,137 words fanfiction about Gawr Gura travelling to an isekai world?

[Anonymous No.19013627]

>>19011161
upper anon here.
noticeable improvement but still needs work. the most blaring ones are repetitions ("stable fences") and awkward references (blackened outlier patches in the grass outside).
most of the improvement comes from the first three paragraph. started really strong, especially with that hint of rotten meat. a bit of mystery (murder? abandonment) but more importantly the sense of decay is clearer here.
everything else after is rather boring. took effort to do more than just skim. i understand the prompt calls for description, but engaging description shows a person's thoughts and emotions, not just their physical senses. but how can you do that if the prompt prevents you from even mentioning the only characters permitted. well i suppose it's a (good?) exercise in physical descriptive writing.
>These same blinding prison bars of daylight burned away youthful souls.
i suppose this is the attempt to hint at the son's death and if so, i'm afraid it's not working. it's jarring. why would you bring up "youthful souls" without a good reason? you can't, because the prompt prevents you from that. you certainly showed death, but there is none of war or the son or even the father himself.
i'd like to say though that on second read, that sentence brought to my mind images of those american POWs locked inside vietnamese bamboo cages, festering in the sun. but that's on second read and it's my imagination doing the far-fetching, not necessarily your prose. if not for reading the prompt, i wouldn't have associated "prison bars" and "shells" with war.
apart from the first three paragraphs, i also like the final sentence, though it seems you removed it.
>Night would soon come to take all the old shells that remained.

[Anonymous No.19013634]

I asked a few questions about this a previous thread but I'm still unsure what to do.

I'd like to do a serialized/short story work, where each individual story is connected by a framing device, which in itself becomes an overarching plot over a long period of time.

People keep saying Kindle Vella is garbage, so I'm reluctant to do that. Somebody suggested just collecting a few stories together and publishing them in one work on Kindle Direct Publishing.

I'm wondering how many would be necessary before compiling them. According the Vella rules, you have to wait until you have ten stories before you can republish them on KDP. Seems like that kind of takes the fun out of short installments to wait that long.

Each story is I guess 3k-6k in length. I read somewhere the average publication on KDP is only 10k, which seems a little short, but that would be only three stories per collection, which is a lot better than 10.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.19013847]

Hey folks how is everyone today?

[Anonymous No.19013924]

Doing good bro, how about you?

[Anonymous No.19013970]

>>19013847
>>19013924
I have a meeting with a client and according to the lawyer ethics rules I can't write stories about cases while they are going on and I need permission from the client. So I haven't been able to write about it. I also am not the biggest fan of true crime or legal thrillers, or at least I don't think I am. It's one of those things where it loses the beauty of how awful the law really is when they dumb it down for a general audience. I once had the thought of doing footnotes in a book where a bitter narrator explains what's actually going on in technical jargon. As if another lawyer was back seat driving while editing the novel. But anyway, this is me procrastinating the meeting I have so good luck /wg/.

[Anonymous No.19014016]

I really like the narrative structure of A-plot that is always forward moving, then B-plot, which is a short story that goes back in time and is solely purposed to inform the background of a character.

Basically One Piece's structure.

[Anonymous No.19014193]

>>19013847
Not bad. Anxious about no work this week (I'm a contractor of sorts) but trying to fill the time writing. I'm at the final chapters of my novel and it's of course becoming an uphill battle of increasing complication since everything's is coming together and has to resolve soundly.

[Anonymous No.19014199]

>>19013627
>the most blaring ones are repetitions ("stable fences") and awkward references (blackened outlier patches in the grass outside).
The first one was an editing issue, the second one was something I thought would be effective. Did the 'cold breeze' and 'shadow' repetitions work for you?

>but more importantly the sense of decay is clearer here.
This is actually something I tried to avoid. Gardner's book says death and decay imagery in this exercise is a sign of a hack. I think most of the problems came from me trying to switch up the imagery in such a short time.

>i suppose this is the attempt to hint at the son's death and if so, i'm afraid it's not working. it's jarring. why would you bring up "youthful souls" without a good reason?
Because I'm stupid. The last paragraph was kind of thrown together. I kept it in so someone could identify why it was so bad.

>you certainly showed death, but there is none of war or the son or even the father himself.
This was on purpose. I imagined that to a father who lost his son, nothing but 'the end' really came to mind. Why would he care about a war or even himself?

>if not for reading the prompt, i wouldn't have associated "prison bars" and "shells" with war
Again, hackey and stupid decisions from my part. Though you've given me an idea for later.

>apart from the first three paragraphs, i also like the final sentence, though it seems you removed it.
I felt like it didn't serve much purpose, also Gardner said invoking darkness was bad.

How would you rate this out of 10? I'll respond in more detail soon.

[Anonymous No.19014337]

>fanfiction is consistently better and more interesting than actual published genre fiction
>fanfiction has an actual readership and you will actually get feedback and visibility, especially if your stuff is good
>and it's free
I might just start writing fanfiction bros.

[Anonymous No.19014361]

>>19014337
If you just enjoy writing, enjoy having an audience, and don't care about revenue, it's the way to go.

[Anonymous No.19014371]

>>19014361
I think the sense of community adds a lot to the writing and posting experience.

[Anonymous No.19014379]

>>19014361
Also I should add, most folk here should write without any care for revenue considering the likelihood of financial success in writing.

[Anonymous No.19014403]

>>19014337
That says more about published fiction than fanfiction desu. Though, if you do go that route, itš a good way to build up an audience, I should think.
t. Fanfiction enjoyer

On a completely different note, which of these writing tip books are the best. And is there any good program for whipping out outlines/plans or should I just stop being a wuss and stick to a doc.

[Anonymous No.19014423]

>>19014403
Everything you need to plan and outline is available in Notepad.

Looking for new programs to get you writing is probably just a crutch for not writing.

[Anonymous No.19014450]

I posted chapter ten despite your collective discouragement.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/41979/a-hero-among-monsters

[Anonymous No.19014497]

>>19014403
Try obsidian. You can link notes about things. So a character name could link to their bio in another note for reference.

[Anonymous No.19014593]

I'm writing a medieval comedy novel about made up magic rituals that includes fourth wall breaks about how stupid it is. How do I avoid coming off as insecure?

[Anonymous No.19014896]

>>19011161
>>19011180
>>19011193
Bumping. Was the old one better?

[Anonymous No.19015024]

>>19014199
be careful about blindly following just one person's advice.
i don't like oversimplifying critique into numbers but since you ask, it's 4/10. a bare minimum pass in the UK grading system.

[Anonymous No.19015095]

>>19015024
I'm really confused now. Last time I posted on here, I posted actual garbage that no one liked and got a higher score. Most people last thread were nutting over the passage and it's somehow worse?

Are you the same anon that critiqued me in this thread and the last one?

[Anonymous No.19015112]

>>19013847
My hiatus is technically over. I should start on writing the next volume. Stomach full of butterflies. Time is ticking, the past increasing.

[Anonymous No.19015311]

>>19014593
Don’t break the fourth wall, just have characters in the book point out how dumb it is. Make the stupidity a real world consequence.
>oi, yer and’s bleeding m8, why would ya cut yer and fer blood when you could cut yer calf or arm or somewhere that doesn’t bend all the time. At this rate yer just gonna reopen the wound. What kind of demon makes ye cut yer and and then expects a and shake. Fool in’ loonies all of ye.

That was bad, but you get the point. It’s more sincere when you put the effort of making the humor come from the world.

[Anonymous No.19015394]

How does one do plot structure over a trilogy(e.g. the Heroes Journey type of thing)? Is it best to have a single arc over all three books, essentially treating them as one or have each book be an arc of it's own, with overarching plot elements?

[Anonymous No.19015401]

>>19014450
Write a review for your own fiction from some scrap account and you will get 100x more views in RR. I wonder why the RR writers from here don't make a circle to rate-boost their fictions collectively.

[Anonymous No.19015474]

You guys ever write something and then wonder how you thought of something. I haven't written in a few months and I'm rereading some older things. Don't know how I came up with some of the stuff. Today I sat down to write and everything is basically amounting to THE DOG RAN. THE DOG RAN FAST

[Anonymous No.19015485]

>>19015474
i swear if this is building up to dog and aliens joke...

[Anonymous No.19015498]

>>19015401
Rather not get punished, the site owner expressed that they aren't keen on cliques doing exactly that.

[Anonymous No.19015535]

im having problems with figuring out waht to write about, the actual writing part isnt the problem? any suggestions on how to curb your creativity (not straight-ahead prompts)?

[Anonymous No.19015560]

>>19015311
Thank you for the response, that's helpful

[Anonymous No.19015577]

>>19015498
Well, even though I won't mention any names, the existing cliques often make use of their discord and non affiliated subreddit secondaries to rate the chosen works in their stead to remain subtle.

[Anonymous No.19015649]

Alright fuckers, really need some advice here.

I'm at the point of describing a great warship, the flagship of the enemy, in my fantasy novel. I want to liken it to a tremendous "ark", but an ark is specifically biblical, and the bible doesn't exist in this fantasy world. Is using the term "ark" like using the term "Jesus Christ!" as an expression?

inb4 "Just write."

[Anonymous No.19015707]

>>19015649
If you need to BS an etymology for "ark" in your world, say it means "a great ship," like an "arch-ship", or highest of ships. Contracted and corrupted over the years to "arkship," or "ark."

I don't think you need to worry too much about it though.

[Anonymous No.19015754]

>>19015401
If I just review some fellows' work can I hope they'll reciprocate? Mutual masturbation is about sharing.

[Anonymous No.19015844]

>>19015754
Yeah, but that'll be hard to find without searching for a while since your target must be a small writer with a friendly personality and that isn't lazy to write reviews. Of course, just giving stars away is way easier and will reciprocate more often, but written reviews are more valuable from a reader's perspective when glancing over underground works.

[Anonymous No.19015864]

>>19015485
???

[Anonymous No.19015894]

>>19015864
>>19015485
Both newfags, the dog/alien allusion has been around even before you were born.

[Anonymous No.19016005]

>>19015894

[Anonymous No.19016158]

>>19015649
What's the problem with a ship looking like a geometric figure? If you want, you can describe it curved, as an enourmous bow?

[Anonymous No.19016185]

>>19015649
>an ark is specifically biblical

[Anonymous No.19016198]

>>19015535
See second paragraph in the linked post.
>>19005936
You have something to say. Start thinking about what you find compelling and see where it goes. Challenge and surprise yourself.

[Anonymous No.19016215]

>>19015401
Reviews haven't given me any noticeable increase in views, even though they're all 5 stars. I think most readers depend on their own impressions more than ratings

[Anonymous No.19016236]

>>19016215
Readership is still mostly by word of mouth even in the century. If you want more views, talk to a publicist, have a blog, go to cons, do interviews, get plugged on a podcast, build a propaganda arm on discord, just do anything. Ads really suck.

[Anonymous No.19016254]

Updated let me know what you think anons:

The Crown of Colour
The Sun rose bright and constant in the east. The field was a deep emerald green, lined on each side by sharp slate grey walls. Rain from the previous night had settled as mist at the roof of the crevice and hung like a spectral cloth on the cliff edges above them.
The ground resembled more a thick sludge than earth and the horses struggled as the legion crept forward into the clearing. Monas looked uneasily towards Rex who rode ahead of the army, his horse seemingly oblivious to the state of the soil. The light shone down upon them, dancing across the golden rim of his deep blue chest plate, making his hair glow and hang, an inverted halo in the dawn. In the distance the red flags of Crator’s battalion grew larger, they too, on their own struggle through the field towards them.
The Redgari army was close enough to see, unwashed and sunburnt most. They were not led from the front by Crator. Instead, he lay concealed somewhere deep in a large, dense rectangle of red and black, rumbling forward with the percussion of tightly packed armored bodies. Rex grinned, smiling at the wall of men approaching, he raised his right arm. The sound of both armies coming to a halt echoed up, around, and through the valley.
Rex tapped his horse lightly with his heels, walking it slowly forward. He addressed the crowd. “Your highness, do you not come to meet me before the festivities begin?” There was a silence now, punctuated by the snuffing of horses. A hole opened in the wall of red and black metal, out of which Crator emerged. Horse and man wore matching armor, deep red metal engraved with jet black regalia of creatures only seen within nightmares. Crator was a giant of a man, his helmet was studded with black rocks, as though it had been spat out of a volcano. The famed Redgar mace laid menacingly across the shoulders of his horse. It glistened as if illuminated by its own internal fire.

[Anonymous No.19016649]

>>19016254
Is this the beginning of a story or no? I like some of the sentences and I can see the characters but Im not sure why I should care yet. I wont be hard on you since its not done, but keep in mind the first line and first 13 should advertise the style and themes of the story, hopefully even a conflict or character motivation. The wording of the into is so crucial I'd say its good to rewrite after you finished the story to ensure it accurately prepares the reader for what they are going to read. The first few lines evoke various settings, which is okay but I dont know what to feel other than perhaps there are ghosts because you said "spectral". At the very least you point out in the second paragraph that there's an army, and likely a war.

[Anonymous No.19016699]

>>19015394
Figure out the final ending, then work backwards from there. Figure out the reasonable way it ended up with that ending. You’ll have to modify details along the way but stick with the general idea of the ending or you’ll end up with a mess.

[Anonymous No.19016919]

I have written my 2k today and I am happy, for I also found a very good bit of music to listen to for a triumphal moment.

[Anonymous No.19017033]

>>19016254
>The ground resembled more a thick sludge than earth and the horses struggled as the legion crept forward into the clearing.

just use 'was' not resembled more than, the word 'than' is used pretty rarely in good fiction and it's used for bright distinction. 'struggled' is bad, you want a verb of gait that works for horses traveling through mud, an actual pose in motion

[Anonymous No.19017087]

>>19016254
>The Sun rose bright and constant in the east.
Why is sun capitalized?
Also, try cutting this line, and possibly the next if you can find a better way to explain the lay of the land.

>The field was a deep emerald green, lined on each side by sharp slate grey walls. Rain from the previous night had settled as mist at the roof of the crevice and hung like a spectral cloth on the cliff edges above them.
I found this part pretty confusing—field with walls =\= crevice in my mind. Is it a wide area between the cliffs, or more like a canyon or fjord?

>The ground resembled more a thick sludge than earth and the horses struggled as the legion crept forward into the clearing. Monas looked uneasily towards Rex who rode ahead of the army, his horse seemingly oblivious to the state of the soil.
Think you could add a comma after “towards Rex”
The horse being oblivious to the state of the soil comes across weirdly to me, and I don’t think you really need it here anyway. Does anyone know if that is normal horse behavior? I feel like they’d notice if the state of the ground was impacting their movements.

>The light shone down upon them, dancing across the golden rim of his deep blue chest plate, making his hair glow and hang, an inverted halo in the dawn.
Replace “them” with “the/their army” for clarity
Break up the clauses—the sentence is too long. Something like “…down upon them. It danced across the…” would work.
How would the light be making his hair hang? Inverted halo doesn’t make sense to me as a metaphor either… why not just a halo. Or something more exciting, like a flame (is that too cliche?)
Or cut it entirely.
Actually, following my previous suggestion, maybe make it a simile instead (“making his hair glow like a halo/whatever in the dawn”) for flow purposes.
This is also the second time in the passage you’ve used the word “deep” to describe a color (deep emerald field, deep blue chest plate.) In general you seem to like to tell us about the colors of things, which can be good/useful, but you may want to find more variety in your descriptions.

>In the distance the red flags of Crator’s battalion grew larger, they too, on their own struggle through the field towards them.
Start a new paragraph here.
Remove comma after “they too”
The last part of this (also kinda long) sentence could be simplified—cut “towards them.”
Alternatively, try cutting the whole sentence and see how it reads. If the color of the flags is important add it in elsewhere.

>The Redgari army was close enough to see, unwashed and sunburnt most.
Putting most at the end feels awkward, like you’re being overly poetic. I’d structure the sentence more conventionally.

[Anonymous No.19017111]

How can I tell when my work is actually cringe and when I'm being my own worst critic?

[Anonymous No.19017114]

>>19017087
>>19016254
>They were not led from the front by Crator. Instead, he lay concealed somewhere deep in a large, dense rectangle of red and black, rumbling forward with the percussion of tightly packed armored bodies.
Ditch the passive voice: “Crator did not lead them from the front.” It’s less awkward.
Consider changing “with the percussion of tightly packed armored bodies” to “among the percussion of the tightly packed(,) armored bodies”

>Rex grinned, smiling at the wall of men approaching, he raised his right arm. The sound of both armies coming to a halt echoed up, around, and through the valley.
Start new paragraph here.
Fix punctuation: “Rex grinned. Smiling at the wall of men approaching, he raised his right arm.”
Change “echoed up, around, and through” to just “around” or “through”

>Rex tapped his horse lightly with his heels, walking it slowly forward. He addressed the crowd. “Your highness, do you not come to meet me before the festivities begin?”
Learn to format dialogue.

>There was a silence now, punctuated by the snuffing of horses.
There’s got to be a more tension-building way to say this… even just “silence fell” would add more suspense/excitement.

>A hole opened in the wall of red and black metal, out of which Crator emerged.
Colors again… you could definitely cut them from the description of the metal wall, since you just told us it was red and black a few sentences ago.
It feels like you could add some violent imagery to Crator emerging with more emphatic/interesting verbs… “A hole opened” could be “a hole ripped open” or something. That’s assuming that the hole isn’t a door or something—if it is supposed to be a door, that is not currently clear.

>Horse and man wore matching armor, deep red metal engraved with jet black regalia of creatures only seen within nightmares.
Same problem of sounding poetic in an awkward rather than literary way—change “Horse and man” to “The horse and the man”

>Crator was a giant of a man, his helmet was studded with black rocks, as though it had been spat out of a volcano.
Punctuation; maybe
“Crator was a giant of a man, and his helmet was studded with black rocks, as if it had been spat out by a volcano”
Or
“Crator was a giant of a man. His helmet was studded with black rocks, as if it had been spat out by a volcano.”

>The famed Redgar mace laid menacingly across the shoulders of his horse. It glistened as if illuminated by its own internal fire.
Try something like “glowed” (though not necessarily “glowed” itself) to make this image clearer; I don’t think of things that glisten (like glass, slugs, and the like) as being illuminated from within.

[Anonymous No.19017121]

>>19017087
>>19017114
Thank you anon - I will integrate this.

[Anonymous No.19017133]

Any tip for being less long-winded? I find brevity one of the most aesthetic aspects of writing, yet, It feels so hard to express what I want while keeping it brief.

[Anonymous No.19017142]

>>19017114
>>19016254
Overall notes:
- be aware of your tendency to overuse color descriptions
- work on punctuation and sentence structure
- more variation in sentence length
- formatting (paragraph breaks and dialogue)
- you have some nice imagery coming along with Crator already—now add to it by creating tension with word choice and sentence length
- keep an eye out for redundancies (“up, around, and through the valley”)(saying the army’s flags were growing bigger and then adding that the army was visible)
- pacing seemed pretty good… you don’t get too mired in descriptions, which is good, but the pacing could improve even more from making some cuts and focusing on building tension
- >>19016649 is right: if this is an opening, you may want to come back and polish it later, since it does need to be more grabbing than it is now

Thanks for posting your work!

[Anonymous No.19017150]

>>19017121
Glad I could be helpful

[Anonymous No.19017165]

>>19017133
Cut it in half. Try it, say what you have said using half the words.

[Anonymous No.19017318]

>>19017133
You can afford to be longwinded in the first draft, but you need to identify which lines are redundant and which are effective. It will help you trim your paragraphs and sentences down. Also look for words that help you depict multiple ideas that you are trying to get across. Also it's okay to say something interesting or subtle and not even explain it. If you build the reader's trust with a believable story you won't need to use as many words in scenes that need faster pace, your reader's imagination will do the rest.

[Anonymous No.19017522]

>>19011161
>>19011180
>>19011193
Bumping again. Please take at the old one too.

[Anonymous No.19017566]

Anyone ever printed a few copies of their own work to have/to give to friends?

[Anonymous No.19017596]

https://pastebin.com/x72NF7Uh
Anyone feel like telling me GITGUD? Back to writing, haven't done anything since March 22nd.


>>19017566
When I was a kid I did. I went to Kinko's and had a bunch of stories I wrote in creative writing printed and bound and sent them to my mom who was in jail. Maybe not what you had in mind?

[Anonymous No.19017628]

>>19017566
I've honestly thought about it. I have about three books I could print for myself, but I don't have which site I would do it on.

[Anonymous No.19017666]

>>19017596
>sent them to my mom who was in jail
:(

[Anonymous No.19017681]

>>19017666
It all worked out.

[Anonymous No.19017710]

>>19017628
>>19017628
I have done it before but not with my own works. A selection I made of my favourite poet's works.
Now I'm thinking of doing it with mine, since I have two friends that would like it if I gave them one, but also for me, to have a physical copy of something I created, would be cool I think.
>>19017681
:)

[Anonymous No.19017723]

>>19013847
Same as always, daydreaming about writing like everyone else.

[Anonymous No.19017847]

r8 my poem

I spotted a catenary,
Suggested by light.
A slack thread hiding,
Just out of plain sight.

From bough to green ground,
Some spider spun it there.
He's long gone and left it here,
So I can stop and stare.

[Anonymous No.19017878]

>>19017847
I like it, I think it would work really well if you put it into a ballad meter

[Anonymous No.19017893]

>>19017566
I was thinking it was time /lit/ wrote another postmodern doorstopper; now that I know how to use Lulu, we could print cheap paperback copies. There was one anon in the other thread suggesting that we should write the Civil War epic that Pynchon never finished; who wants to help me?

[Anonymous No.19017925]

>>19017893
>Lulu
Have you ever tried them? Prices seem a bit too good to be true desu

[Anonymous No.19017935]

>>19017925
I have a hardcover book from them; the quality is ok, the print isn't as crisp as something a real publishing house like Knopf would produce, but the books are ok; you're not getting premium quality but the paperbacks will hold up fine and the hardcovers are about the same quality as any BCE hardcover in my opinion

[Anonymous No.19018051]

>>19017133
I'm not professional so take this as an amateur's opinion, but I find writing with brevity is like solving an open-ended puzzle. Your goal is to pack intense meaning into a few words without using contrived language, but also while keeping it mechanically solid. First I cut the useless/redundant phrases and adjectives, then I go back and replace my verbs with better ones. He bolted across the field? How about: He swung across the field. Or maybe he surfed across the field. Interesting verbs paint a different and more interesting scene with the same number of words, but know when to use them, since exceedingly basic verbs can also be used to help the reader gloss over things and get a sensation of brevity.

>John swung across the field, pebble in hand, then chucked it across the river. It bounced once, twice, then plunked into the river. He swore. Weeks of training and he still couldn't skip well enough to compete with his brother - and what's more, he had run out of nearby rocks, so he had to run a minute-loop several times an hour just to continue his practice. It was at that moment he decided: pebble skipping was a garbage talent, and anyone who practiced it was a mentally disabled twink who couldn't handle sports for real men.

[Anonymous No.19018129]

>>19018051
>then plunked into the river
Nice sensory detail with the verb "plunk." You described what the rock did and how it sounded. I even heard it in my head because it's almost like an onomatopoeia. Finding multiple purposes for words is great for staying brief, and also giving depth to your story. You can teach readers about characters by showing the setting. You can describe events and ideas at the same time, or make a character's behavior serve as their introduction without thhe character or narrator describing their favorite food, hometown and major.

[Anonymous No.19018192]

>>19018129
where can I find more paintings like this

[Anonymous No.19018196]

>>19018192
>>19018129
I mean what's a good place to look for them, I know I can just google "paintings" but I get a lot of shit

[Anonymous No.19018213]

>>19013634
Nobody know? OK, I'll move on.

[Anonymous No.19018219]

>>19018213
Just go for it. Write all that you need to write and publish it.

[Anonymous No.19018235]

>>19018192
>>19018196
Just read into Realism and Naturalism art in the 19th century. That picture was German, but that movement was incredibly popular in America. Plenty of French paintings too, and the realism can give nice landscapes that can help you write back to time periods and see how things were, not just read how they were in journals and history.

[Anonymous No.19018728]

>>19015095
i am this guy >>18999512 >>19013627
like i said, be careful about blindly listening to advice and critique. some may be legit, others biased, others may not know what they're talking about.
your previous one is 2/10. this one is 4/10. i have very high standards for numbers which is why i prefer writing a fleshed out critique. but that's just me, one guy. other readers may see what i don't see. don't put all your eggs in one basket.

[Anonymous No.19018747]

>>19018728
Sorry, I guess I'm just shocked that someone could think my passage is a 2 or 4 out of 10.

I didn't blindly follow your critique. I liked the long sentences because rhythm is something I've always struggled with. Being able to write longer sentences now makes me happy. That isn't to say it wasn't useful; it pointed out a few key problems I had with the passage.

Also, a few questions if you don't mind:
>do you have any excerpts you'd describe as an 8 or above?
>do you write?

[Anonymous No.19018784]

>>19011193
Why isn't anyone else interested in critiquing this? It seems that only one anon had anything to say.

[Anonymous No.19018818]

>>19017596
nice boxing imagery. was kinda confused at the start of the third paragraph because i thought chuck was fantasizing about doing the robbing himself. not bad for such a short piece. felt like it could end stronger, though.

>>19018747
don't take it too personally. i don't even rate my own writing above 4/10. to me, what i read is either good or it's not.

>do you write?
i assume you're asking this to ascertain if i know what i'm talking about. that's good. i do write on and off (you critiqued one last thread) and i got some short stories and flash pieces published in a few online magazines/journals. no-name magazines, mind you. i'm by no means "good" and i still have a fuck long way to go, but i've found what kind of voice i'm comfortable writing in.

>do you have any excerpts you'd describe as an 8 or above?
again, i don't usually assign numbers to writing quality. but i keep this document where i save excerpts i especially like in /crit/ (RIP) and /lit/ in general, that make me go, "that's good." here's some:

/nightwalk/
>I'll wake up. Put on the coffee pot, slippers on. Step out to the balcony, light up. Cars are too loud, smoke another. Slide the door open. Pour a cuppa joe. Longingly look towards the evening, bourbon and soda in hand. Inhale the tannins as they diffuse into the room. Briefly feel at piece. Run some water in the mug. Put on pants, shoes, jacket. Stuff my bag with the necessary things. Worry I'm forgetting. Cap over my ears, I'm ready for the walk. It's all creeping back now.

this is non-fiction
>When I was 10 I had a crush on a girl who was always nice to me. I went watching musical Annie with her at my mum's bidding once. Didn't speak much to each other there but it was nice. She was sleeping next to me while we were on my parents car. She looked so adorable sleeping so I laid my head to her shoulder pretending to be asleep as well. It felt so nice, so comfortable. Probably one of my best memories I'll never experience again. She went to Canada (we exchanged farewell gifts) and I never heard from her again. That was probably like 11-12 years ago. I wonder what she's doing. I wonder if she remembers that.

http://www.warsawuprising.com/witness/schenk.htm
>“Or that Polish woman" (Schenk doesn't remember which action it was). "Every time, when we stormed the cellars and women were inside the Dirlewanger soldiers raped them. Many times a group raped the same woman, quickly, still holding weapons in their hands. Then after one of the fights, I was standing shaking by the wall and couldn't calm my nerves. Dirlewanger soldiers burst in. One of them took a woman. She was pretty. She wasn't screaming. Then he was raping her, pushing her head strongly against the table, holding a bayonet in the other hand. First he cut open her blouse. Then one cut from stomach to throat. Blood gushed. Do you know, how fast blood congeals in August?"

from Lit Quarterly (RIP)
https://litquarterly.ca/online-edition-october-2020/#liamhunt

[Anonymous No.19018830]

>>19018818
most likely many of them don't warrant an 8, but i like them all

[Anonymous No.19018949]

>>19011193
Farmer Brown marched back to the barn from the well, for one final check before the day was done. A pale sun, shrouded in fog, silhouetted its tall frame against the sky, almost black. The paint was long gone, and the timbers bleached by many summers until they were the color of bone. The huge doors gaping like a mouth in a silent scream, the loft a black void, like a hollowed cyclop's eye. His feet ached as he trudged through the mud. His knees ached, his back, his heart. They had always been aching, for years and years at least. Today he felt the pain, finally. How could he keep it up? How will he get out of bed before the sun rises again? He doesn't know if he has the strength. The horses are in. The sheep are in. The chickens have all returned to their coop. The cow is here too. She's old too, and she aches as well. She's old, for a cow. She won't have long left. And for what? A few years of milk? Calves sold off for their veal? This is all his now. The bank owns it no longer; it's his. It will be until that day that he dies. And for what?

[Anonymous No.19019041]

I was remembering the 2003 FMA anime and it got me thinking how weird it would be to have a side character who finds himself in Ed's situation at the end of the series

Like, imagine you've got a completely separate plotline going on, possibly with a completely different genre, but there's one specific side character who mentions that he keeps running into dopplegangers – not literal ones mind you but people with the same names and faces as people he knew from his home town that he stays cryptic about. most of them even act the same, but some are different in a way that's jarring. An accused rapist in this town looks like someone he remembers from back home who was always the nicest guy and he has to wonder if they really are different people or whether that guy back home had this horrific other side to him

and yet, that plotline is never explored. Not because the author never got around to it, but because it was just supposed to be left a mystery and make the world seem a little larger

[Anonymous No.19019229]

>>19018818
Alright! I see either an issue with my prose more clearly now, or a pattern in your tastes. Either way, the 4/10 makes a lot more sense now. I'm going to read and write more to see if there's a flaw in my style or it's just a quirk that doesn't match with your tastes. This went from incredibly frustrating to surprisingly productive. Thank you for all of your help.

Just out of curiosity, who are some of your favorite writers?

[Anonymous No.19019237]

I have an idea for a mystery novel, but am not that familiar with the genre? Does anyone have any recommendations for mystery novels that are good examples of the genre, in terms of pacing, and structure?

[Anonymous No.19019363]

does this board allow for color formatting? I'm curious about something for posting later, and I want to test out the formatting somewhere to make sure it posts correctly.

[Anonymous No.19019382]

>>19019229
>>19011161
I read it and I agree with the 3 or 4/10 score if we're going "7/10" is a publishable but unremarkable work. The entire thing is "this. that. this. that." with zero variety to it, so that detracts a lot of points just by merit of that. Some grammar is wrong - which is fine I guess. That's easily fixable.
>All grass underfoot had decayed into yellow and brown and some older patches even turned black.
Can't you just reread this and see how this sounds awkward? Why not just
>All grass underfoot had decayed into varying shades of yellow, brown, and even black.

>time-worn tires
Unironically show, don't tell here please.
>Strips of light permitted by the scarce roof of the barn jailed the scene in rays of dusk.
I appreciate that you are at least trying to do something neat with "jailed" but it kinda fell short, optimally you would remove the "strips of light" and the "jailcell" verb would imply that for you if it was good enough. In general though this just feels immature (compared to the "good" writers).
>The support beams sported eerie green mould like the blackened outlier patches in the grass outside and rusted screws that bent and jutted out of their spots.
Go to your favorite "good" book written in the past 100 years and take note of how much adjectives they use. The author almost definitely uses them sparingly. Why? Because overuse of adjectives fuddles your mental image and implying more with less words results in a much more powerful scene.

[Anonymous No.19019386]

>>19019363
Are you trying to say your writing has colored text in it? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding here

[Anonymous No.19019400]

>>19019386
correct
[red]red[/red]
[green]green[/green]
forgive me if its not the case

[Anonymous No.19019402]

>>19019400
My god.

[Anonymous No.19019403]

>>19019400
Doesn't appear so!

Sorry to bother, have a good one y'all.

[Anonymous No.19019446]

>>19019382
What were the grammatical errors? I didn't catch any.

>All grass underfoot had decayed into yellow and brown and some older patches even turned black.
I actually wrote it that way on purpose, I felt like it broke up the monotony of listing things. Also, it was originally:
>All grass underfoot had decayed into yellow and brown; some older patches had turned black.
I was trying to be like Cormac McCarthy because I thought the way he did it was cool.

>Unironically show, don't tell here please.
My bad. That line wasn't edited. Have you checked out the previous version? It doesn't fit the prompt perfectly but I feel like some parts are less awkward. I personally think a lot of the issues in this version came from the rushed revisions.

>Go to your favorite "good" book written in the past 100 years and take note of how much adjectives they use... implying more with less words results in a much more powerful scene.
What if that line were:
>The support beams sported mould and rusted screws that bent and loosened.
I agree with your point about the adjectives, but I think the reference to the outlier patches from the first paragraph is what really killed the line. I think that only works with the 'cold afternoon/evening' lines, if at all.

I'm new to writing 'good prose', and I have a hard time getting things from metaphors myself so it's like cooking without a taste of sense. I've read a lot but it doesn't feel like I'm developing an eye for these things yet. How did you learn to do imagery/metaphors well? It isn't something you learn in school, so I assume everyone has to learn it at some point afterwards.

[Anonymous No.19019502]

>>19019382
>>19018818
Question for both of you.

>The entire thing is "this. that. this. that." with zero variety to it

My writing's been called clinical before too, but I just don't see what I'm missing. If you don't mind, can one of you point it out to me explicitly like I'm an idiot?

[Anonymous No.19019521]

>>19019502
Just write.

[Anonymous No.19019523]

>>19019521
That's what I'm doing. It isn't working.

[Anonymous No.19019634]

>>19019502
Have variety in sentence structure? Is it that complex?

>>19019446
As I said earlier I'm not a professional so this is an amateur opinion, but my work on imagery and metaphors has been (infinitely frustrating) trial and error + analyzing good writers to see what they do.
One thing I'll say is that sentences are usually a lot simpler than you imagine them to be. The average aspiring writer usually remembers their favorite books as having amazingly complex sentences and imagery, so they try to imitate that with a lot of adjectives and odd words. Their end result is always awkward word salad, and they suppose that's because they're just not good enough. But in reality, it's that the good writers have deceptively basic sentences that manage to come off as complex despite their relative simplicity. Instead of
>The support beams sported mould and rusted screws that bent and loosened.
How about just
>The beams were covered in mould and rusted screws.
Actually let me try rewriting your entire paragraph and tell me what you think. Good exercise for me too.
>The beams were blanketed in mold and spotted with rusted screws. In center stage sat a tractor; looming; long-dead upon its throne of detritus. There a midnight wind oscillated against the king, back and forth, shaking at the seams of the barn until, one day, the nails would come loose and it would all come crashing down - and then our king would finally have his tomb.

>It isn't something you learn in school
Are you a literary major? I'm so sorry

[Anonymous No.19019985]

>>19005867
It's odd how telegraphed the plot and setting are yet it has nothing to do with all of your gratuitous descriptive exposition. I already feel oversaturated by your character's poverty.

[Anonymous No.19020070]

>>19002893
need better cover art if no one’s clicking

[Anonymous No.19020329]

>>19002893
shill it with multiple accounts basically samefagging yourself on here, amazon, reddit, and other places

[Anonymous No.19020382]

I'm worried about time distribution. Between college, reading and other activities I some times have trouble fitting writing into the schedule without renouncing to something else. How do you typically organize yourselves?

[Anonymous No.19020393]

>wakeup, shower, make breakfast and write
>go to work, read on lunch break, make writing notes as they come to me
>get home, take an hour to finish chores and eat
>write for 5+ hours until I fall asleep
>only talk to friends and family on holidays
I'm sorry anon but if you want to make progress and you also have responsibilities, you will have to axe things from your life that aren't that important but take too much time. Once you scrutinize your schedule, you'll find that there is at least 40 hours there that you can redeem, but it may cost you.

[Anonymous No.19020398]

>>19018818
I'm intending turning it to 1000 words or so about an actual robbery. I just wanted to shit out the intro and see how it was received. Thanks for taking the time.

[Anonymous No.19020453]

>>19020393
All this for a document that will sit in My Documents forever and never be seen by another soul. You pour your lifeclock into a box which will never be opened, neglecting to live.

[Anonymous No.19020483]

>>19020393
Write for 15 mins

[Anonymous No.19020520]

>>19020453
I remember one author saying once that he had to put in so much time to finish a certain series of books that he barely got to interact with his son the first few years of his life. He sounded so disheartened and said he wished he had done it differently. I'm trying to stay sensitive to things like that still.

[Anonymous No.19020704]

>>19019229
good luck. also a 4/10 in the UK is like 6-7/10 for the rest of the world.

>who are some of your favorite writers?
hemingway and mishima, marquez (a hundred years of solitude) and de saint-exupery (wind, sand, and stars)

>>19019502
basically what the other guy says: if you have zero variety, then make variety. also don't reply to trolls. this sense of variety comes to you naturally over time, as you learn and write. from the top of my head you can do something as simple as
>switching around subject-object (active-passive)
>sentence length and structure: rotate between long, short, compound, etc.
sorry can't think of others right now. injecting emotions into your writing is the best answer in my opinion when your writing is named clinical. [description] [thought] [description] [description] [thought/feelings]

>>19019985
>how telegraphed the plot and setting are
what do you mean

[Anonymous No.19020761]

>Just submitted my short story to journals but wanna show more anons it.

[Anonymous No.19020850]

>>19020761
Just share a few scenes. You will have to edit your submission anyways right?
>weekend coming up for big writan
I should finish analyzing all the chapters in the 2nd half of this novel this week and by that I mean Im not done writing the scenes from the living outline.

[Anonymous No.19020858]

It's been 2 weeks since I sent my manuscript to the first publishers and have since then produced 8k words of text for two new pieces, not sure which to focus on. Being free to do whatever feels nice but I need to start focusing on something seriously again.

[Anonymous No.19020935]

>>19020858
I'd just start working on what you find more interesting or timely. I plan to start writing a new project after submissions end of this year. There's an outline done and I have source material to study, but I need to interview some people to get a better idea of plot points since its historical fiction. It should be fun to mix my style with an older form of English and ancient cultures. But that period will be a calm before the storm, before you know it you will have to re-engage the submitted story to fix it. Its jarring to switch pace but you'll manage.

[Anonymous No.19021070]

someone give me feedback on my short story pls

[Anonymous No.19021119]

>>19021070
I like this, it sets up a conflict fast. I didnt know what was at stake first but fire burning things made me expect it. It reads like its haunting and inevitable like the fire effortlessly burns things with the leisurely word choice you had. The hook at the end of the passage about supernatural powers was nice, but shocking because they couldnt stop the fire. I wonder what good are these powers at all, or is the fire some primordial evil that not even superhumans can stop? I'd read more honestly.

[Anonymous No.19021162]

>>19021119
thanks anon, this is really helpful. i'm gonna have to think about your question more because i'm not sure how it's gonna end, but the main thing was characterizing the fire as if it was a living creature (and now that I think about it, it bares some resemblance to the pig-demon in princess mononoke...)

>I'd read more honestly
That's the best feedback I could receive so thank you, and I'll definitely keep working on it

[Anonymous No.19021186]

>>19020935
>before you know it you will have to re-engage the submitted story to fix it
This would require someone to pick it up, which is a distant dream

[Anonymous No.19021410]

>>19019634
>Have variety in sentence structure? Is it that complex?
I tried that but it didn't seem to work the way I wanted.

>my work on imagery and metaphors has been (infinitely frustrating) trial and error + analyzing good writers to see what they do.
Alright, I'll do that then.

>Are you a literary major? I'm so sorry
I'm not. STEM, no writing or literature class, not even in high school. I'm flying completely blind.

Your version's good, but it loses the element of the son's death.

>The beams were blanketed in mold and spotted with rusted screws.
Seems to imply the decay has already taken over. I used sported because the implication was that the man was still alive, but in the process of passing.

Your tractor line is better than mine. I have a weak vocabulary.

>There a midnight wind oscillated against the king, back and forth
Seems complex. I repeated 'cold ___ breeze swayed' to indicate the passing of time, though that didn't work out since I never indicated that there was someone there watching.

>and then our king would finally have his tomb.
Feels unnecessary.

Overall I think it was good, and I see your point about repetition. It seems like I'm underestimating my audience too, which is why I think I'm using repetition as a clutch.

>>19020704
>emotions into your writing is the best answer in my opinion when your writing is named clinical
This makes a lot of sense. There's a second part to the exercise that I'll try to finish with this in mind, I hope you guys will be around to critique it.

[Anonymous No.19021685]

Speaking of the farm writing exercise, I remember a farm my father grew up on, him and his 8 siblings without a father. Living in a house built on top of the one they used to live in before their drunk father accidentally set it on fire, some years before he was murdered in a bar with a bottle over his head. Some time before the ground was razed. There was a barn, two houses and cage in the center. One house had a farmer they all worked with who lived alone his entire life. In the other house was the children's mother who lived alone until she got dementia and found her new husband clawed his way from under a broken tractor in the old tobacco field.
Castrated pigs waddled around in the cage, waiting for a passerby to throw over the misshapen pears on the other side. Chickens nested in that pear tree, hiding.
That place brought a lot of good memories and I'm not sure why sometimes. It's all gone now, just a rolling plain. You would have never guessed who used to live there.

[Anonymous No.19021699]

>>19021685
You should keep going.

[Anonymous No.19021761]

>>19021699
It will take a lot to remember all of what went on there, but it's all true what I mentioned. I should use it as a setting at some point. I really find it sad how rural America gets a bad reputation. At least half of the stories that I'd like to tell use Southerners or people with rural roots. I've even been warned to use a midwestern character instead and balked at it. I just wanted to share about the farm, that's all.

[Anonymous No.19021798]

>>19021685
nice