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/lit/ - Literature


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18981865 No.18981865 [Reply] [Original]

Was widespread and mass literacy really actually and unironically a fucking mistake?

>> No.18981885

>>18981865

Mass literacy and its consequences was a disaster for the human race

frt, Humanity's capacity to memorize things has greatly diminished now that we can write things down.

Before written language, you just had to remember everything in your head. All existing knowledge was inside your mind

>> No.18981889

>>18981865
Without question it absolutely was

>> No.18981897

>>18981865
No, widespread and mass oracy was. The ideal world is a vast mute caste ruled by a small elite of clergymen that inspire them with phonetically pleasing poetry and an aristocracy (occasionally replenished with uplifted plebes to stop inbreeding) that directs the efforts of the plebians towards worthwhile projects

>> No.18982122

>>18981889
Please give your reasons anon

>>18981885
Based

>> No.18982186

>>18981865
damn he-man... you gottem good

>> No.18982236

>>18981865
Mass literacy is on its way out, there’s estimates from last September that less than half the 18+ population in the USA can read above an eighth grade level
I worked on those reports it’s hideously bad anons and spreading globally

>> No.18982247

>>18982236
good. no more weekend writers getting in the way.

>> No.18982264

>>18981865
Yes, the closest parallel is removing the difficulty to accessing the internet and the IMMEDIATE decline in quality following the advent of smartphones
Gatekeeping is an essential protector of the bell curve

>> No.18982293

>>18982264
>I'm super mad fanfiction.net exists!
Just walk away from the screen! Like nigga just close your eyes!

>> No.18982309

>>18982293
ebonic speakers are a part of the problem

>> No.18982311

>>18981865
Yes, retards are retarded.

>> No.18982352

>>18982309
No, clearly newfags are the problem.

>>18981865
Whatever it took to get antibiotics was probably worth it

>> No.18982393

>>18982352
>Whatever it took to get antibiotics was probably worth it
No.
Just straight up, no.
Modernity is not worth it.

>> No.18982422

>>18982393
Shhh, the dead can't speak.

>> No.18982446
File: 32 KB, 460x627, B6852447-91EF-4238-B137-931684D4721E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18982446

>>18981865
>that image
if you think for more than 2 seconds, this line of argument is obviously wrong. there are at least 3 positions (male, female, non-binary), and 3 =/= 2, so it’s not a binary classification. i don’t even have a dog in this fight, but as a math student it infuriates me when people say shit this stupid. if you’re going to make a reductive argument, at least make the “2 genitals, therefore 2 genders” one. it’s much more defensible.

>> No.18982467

>>18982236
COZY. I feel elite now

>> No.18982610

>>18982446
Not two genitals, since it's a fairly continuous spectrum, but two gametes. Either your body makes the big ones or the little ones. But you are wrong about the image as well, there are 10 genders those who understand binary and those who don't.

>> No.18983575
File: 65 KB, 910x661, America_is_dumb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18983575

>>18982236
you weren't joking

>> No.18983578

>>18982236
Tell us more, tell us about the niggers and their illiteracy

>> No.18983580

>>18981865
no He-Man, when someone calls himself non-binary he's advocating for the extermination of all binary people

>> No.18983592

>>18982236
mass literacy is just converting to video
people will just watch videos
>>18982247
nope, you'll get AI

>> No.18983595

I mean, have you been on R*ddit lately?

>> No.18983616

>>18982446
the existence of non-binary creates a new binary system:
those who are binary (male/female) and those who are "non-binary"
2=2
Really, it boils down to the fact that propositions are either true or false (binary) in standard logic. See how the "new" system is essentially that of "true" (i.e. male/female) and "false" ("non-binaries")
You must not be a very good math student if you can't understand.

>> No.18983784

>>18982422
I would rather be dead desu.

>> No.18984227

>>18983784
The rest of us also enjoy not having consumption and leprosy as well, fortunately I do see a final solution.

>> No.18984254

>>18982446
When you conceive of a category of non-binary, you're creating a duality of "this" and "not-this" with non-binary being opposed binary. Lurk more before your philosophical balls drop. Also, your pic is retarded.

>> No.18984359
File: 136 KB, 663x1000, 521DA304-9607-47AE-B4FB-BBEEF18C844D.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18984359

>>18981865
Thanks for the laugh OP.
Here’s a book on that

>> No.18984512

>>18982446
normal/freak. Binary.

>> No.18984519

>>18983592
>mass literacy is just converting to video
>people will just watch videos
And it makes sense for this to happen as this is much more natural to how humans have developed as a species. People naturally learn through oration since you are able to be imprinted with facial expression, tone, and body language.

Forcing people to learn/study/communicate through text beyond daily vocabulary is incredibly complex and takes up years of study. If there is an easy way to accomplish the same goal (i.e. just use video to teach people things) then humans will adopt the path of least resistance.
For most of history, the only true literates were the scholar/priestly class.
We take it for granted because we were able to graduate from our educational system, but the idea of putting children in chairs for 6 hours a day 160 - 180 days per year for 13 years to constantly read and submit test answers is a very strange one.

>> No.18984527

>>18983592
>people will just watch videos
>people will just get their education from uneducated, poorly read, youtube grifters instead

>> No.18984539

>>18983575
why is america so dumb compared to 20 years ago

>> No.18984543
File: 39 KB, 220x124, seinfeld-peterman.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18984543

>>18984527
>people will just get their education from uneducated, poorly read, youtube grifters instead
It's already happening. Kids watch Crash Course videos and think what's presented in them is the be all end all to the facts of the matter. Then again, people who act and live as slaves consent to their fate and deserve it. Nothing ever changes.

>> No.18984546
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18984546

>translation: i'm angry that there are smarter people than me in the world and would, if given the chance, keep these people down by repealing mass literacy efforts
peak untermensch, op

>> No.18984553

>>18984543
>It's already happening
i know and it would be hilarious if not for future implications

>> No.18984561

>>18981865
This is also why non-dualism is such a mess

>> No.18984591
File: 569 KB, 1437x1411, 1630388884794.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18984591

>>18982236
I've taught both in college and high school. Zoomers don't even qualify as useful idiots, because there's nothing useful about them.
>Even the smarter kids have no interest in reading and see it as antiquated
>Fail to see any utility in proper English and resent being expected to write in anything but incomplete thoughts and text speak
>The internet has completely destroyed their interest in knowledge itself, because they take for granted that the information will always be there and be accessible, devaluing learning altogether in their minds

>> No.18984593

>>18981865
That argument about nonbinary people is only really a gotcha for the ones who are doing it specifically to "spite the system". And there definitely are some who do that but despite what pundits would have you believe, the vast majority of nonbinary people dress and feel how they do purely outside of spite for the system. Sometimes, categories of male and female just don't accurately describe a person and they feel better when they don't appeal to a look that they don't feel is accurate to them. So basically, to answer the argument of the image, I'd say who cares? This only matters if your identity exists and is defined by its relation to other identities and if you're nonbinary for reasons other than attention, that's what you're going for anyway. I expect to change exactly 0 minds with this post and I'm not even returning to the thread to piss away my time but since I'm not, I might as well leave this explanation. Hopefully it helps some nonbinary person who takes that image seriously to think it through a bit more and feel better. I do genuinely hope that some day we can all reach a point where we're able to exist in the same space as people who aren't identical to us.

>> No.18984598

>>18984553
>tfw we won't live in an absurdist dystopian future with domed cities like in the Paranoia RPG where people are so cut off from their history that Marxists are people who watch Marx Bros comedies

>> No.18984607

>>18984598
?

>> No.18984617

>>18984591
Got any stories you don't mind sharing?

>> No.18984619

>>18984607
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_(role-playing_game)

>> No.18984621

>>18984593
>Hopefully it helps some nonbinary person who takes that image seriously to think it through a bit more and feel better.
For the non-binary person in this thread: look at your genitals. If it's a dick, you're a man; if it's a cunt, you're a woman. If you feel these two categories don't describe you, you have a serious case of your headupyourassitis. I suggest you get it out.

>> No.18984627

>>18981865
I'm not sure we have achieved mass literacy

>> No.18984630
File: 58 KB, 994x846, ted.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18984630

>>18981865
The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster to the human race.

>> No.18984645

>>18982236
That's really sad...

>> No.18984685

>>18981865
Let say x is a person that considers themselves non-binary, and therefore there is a two kind of people distinction: binary and non-binary, making x to fall under a binary system again. Is this some instance of the Berry paradox or something?

>> No.18984687

>>18984617
My first year I was making small talk with some kids while they worked on their projects. Good kids, all on the sharper side, not a bunch of retards or punks. I tried to strike up a talk about favorite books and kept getting "I don't know" as an answer. I lowered the bar some and asked for just one book they remember liking. About half said they'd never enjoyed a book before. The other half listed off books they read in elementary school. One girl mentioned that she really liked the Biscuit books as a kid. The fucking picture books about the little puppy. I eventually managed to talk one of them, a senior who seemed to look up to me, into reading The Last Picture Show. I had to bait him into it by telling him about a scene where a cow gets gang raped by teenagers. He liked it and we had some talks about it, but I know he'll probably never read again. The rest of them seemed to mostly just take amusement in the fact I was encouraging them to read, like I was a senile old man telling them to jump over the moon or some shit. It was sad and scary.

>> No.18984710

>>18981865
Absolutely, the NPC mind is incapable of determining truth from falsehood, thus giving them access to any information that can be used to deceive them is a mistake.

>> No.18984814

>>18982446
Real/fake. Binary.
Also, every single """""""""""Non binary""""""""""" I've ever seen has behaved entirely within the gender binary. It's basically what tomboy call themselves nowadays. Really fucking annoying.

>> No.18984941
File: 445 KB, 1112x2208, 1596210877794.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18984941

>>18984593
>Sometimes, categories of male and female just don't accurately describe a person
Why yes, they absolutely do. The words "man" and "woman" accurately describe men and women. If you want to go into more detail, we have "boy", and "old man" and "young lady" and "girl" and etc, for ages.

Bro, if a girl is wearing pants instead of a skirt, that doesn't mean you just invented a new gender. She's still a woman fundamentally, in body and brain.
"Non-binary" is just a gayer version of "tomboy". It's nothing but a fad.

>> No.18985072

So are we the intellectual elite now, boys?

>> No.18985572

that shit about zoomers becoming hostile is true
i went into a discord and got ganged up on by people in their late teens/early 20s for saying words deemed too 'difficult', despite only talking normally.
"i just want to come here to chill"
"you're just showing off"
"i dont want to read a book cuz"

I remember shit being fine even as recently as 5 years ago. Now everyone is a nigger and it absolutely correlates with Discord killing all other forms of online communication.

>> No.18985582

>>18981865
Yes, because none of that will impact the person's intelligence or critical thinking. Idiots will be idiots no matter how much information you cram into their skull.

>> No.18985598

>>18984687
Anon, people read today. It's just not literature in any shape or form. They read shit online. I imagine a young person today reads quite a bit quantity-wise, but all of it is pointless drivel.

>> No.18985615
File: 22 KB, 389x440, worry face.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18985615

>>18982446
>mfw soon everything will be phonetic transcription because people will be too lazy to actually learn proper writing

>> No.18985632

>>18982122
Sorry, its mostly due to reasons the other anon above me said. However Im of the mind that many people while its nice they can read aren’t meant to read, not in an insulting manner but in the sense that their talents would be best exercised elsewhere. Leaving literacy to hobbyists or academics I feel can return the dignity of human language in many ways, since there will be less people using it exclusively for leisure like the vast majority always do and more people who also use it for leisure but love reading and have the option to make themselves literate, and academics who wish to take human language to its limits. Not a catch all solution we would still have problems but I believe it would help us avert some damage

>> No.18985638
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18985638

americans do 200 word """essays""" while the rest of the world does 2000 minimum

>> No.18985647

This is a good thing.
If the midwit market falls out then women will finally fuck off poisoning the entire industry.

>> No.18985674

>>18982446
what kills me is when people don't even doubt for a second that what they're saying could be wrong. no, you are the shithead for pointing out their mistake.

>> No.18985709

>>18984539
You know the problems with modern education? How it operates similar to a prison more than a school? We were the testing ground for that and its had disastrous consequences, what didnt help was the heavy handed form of “learning” that many religious zealots among the colonials were fond of so they were quite eager to apply this modern form of schooling. Im unsure how europe has inherited this but judging from things have turned out I feel you do things a tad different to at least make students feel human

>> No.18985733

>>18985709
Oh I apologize I forgot to add, its gotten worse over the years for a number of factors that entire books are based off( if any anons would recommend some I’d be grateful, I only know 1-2) but one of the principal reasons is that these flawed foundations are finally cracking. Therefore the average american can no longer sit on a high horse to ignore their poor education, what remains is a sea of citizens barely possessing literacy

>> No.18985770
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18985770

>>18985709
>omg poor European babies they didnu nuffin its all those American puritans
Europe is a disease

>> No.18985782

>>18985770
I never said europe was free of blame either, I implied their situation in regards to schooling is a bit superior to ours though it matters little. Not sure about calling it a disease but the entire reason modern schooling became so horrendous is because a certain man named Martin Luther thought the state exercising its force on citizens to create soldiers worked so well that it could do the same to learning, so while I feel blame matters little at our stage I definitely share your sentiments.

>> No.18985795

modern schooling is a derivation of the panopticon not the reformation

>> No.18985806
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18985806

>>18985782
Modern schooling was introduced in Catholic Austria by Maria Theresa and from there found its way into Protestant Prussia. That had nothing to with Luther or this recent Puritan boogeyman.

>> No.18986031

>>18984710
That is what Savitra tech basically said about mass literacy.

>Sincere thought, real free thought, ready, in the name of superhuman authority or of humble common sense, to question the basis of what is officially taught and generally accepted, is less and less likely to thrive. It is, we repeat, by far easier to enslave a literate people than an illiterate one, strange as this may seem at first sight. And the enslavement is more likely to be lasting.

>> No.18986051

>>18982236
based i will be an elite chad just from reading above an eight grade level

>> No.18986686

>>18984941
Based

>>18985072
Tragically yes

>>18985582
It may have made it worse as idiots now have incredible confidence simply because they read Atlantic or Slate or, my allah forgive me for uttering this, Vice. And they think they are very clued up.

>> No.18986712

>>18984227
The dead do not have consumption leprosy or any other troubles.

>> No.18987163

>>18986712
>also
We also appreciate not suffering a long debilitating illness before we die.

>> No.18987194

>>18987163
There are those who are broken like me, who through reading and reasoning have come to see that life is a long debilitating illness, and not only that; that when we die we will reincarnate, that this eternal condition is hell, and that hell is arguably preferable to the alternative when freedom through gnosis is a vast and lonely emptiness.
I think I would warn people not to read.

>> No.18987349
File: 39 KB, 400x323, dag_analysis_bsp_level.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18987349

>>18987194
We are the only consciousness, the only beings, that might understand the complexity, the beauty, the sublime awe of creation. Our descendents must fill the universe with intelligent awareness.
But for now perhaps we will suffer and we walk a hard, narrow path. One where misstep might end in death, in consumption by a consciousless AI, or unimaginably worse. Yet we must not retreat to ancient pastoralism. We must thread the needle of the future. Take those technologies that accomplish that divine goal. Avoiding those that might destroy us or strip away our humanity. Becoming an elder race.

>> No.18987422

>>18982236
I'm friends with people that do research in this field and I've heard the same thing. The mass decline in literacy is only expected to accelerate too

>> No.18987425

>>18987349
The joke is that you come to realize all this has already happened. Technological singularity has been achieved before, our ancestors destroyed their machines in despair (or simultaneously retreated into them, as children immersing themselves in vr minecraft is also a return to primitivism) and created pastoralism as a respite from technological society.
Living cells are indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced nanotechnology arranged into autonomous clusters.
We have done this before.
The gods grow tired after aeons and incarnate as humans.
Reality is orgiastic.
Hot, eternal, hellish orgasm.

>> No.18987517

>>18982446
>there are at least 3 positions (male, female, non-binary)
>male, female
Combined to make the category "binary" which the category "non-binary" relies on. The point is that categorizing yourself as a "non-category" or identifying as a "non-identity" is a self-contradiction.

>> No.18987595

>>18987517
>>18982446
Semantic (logical) paradox? Berry paradox maybe?

>> No.18987613

>>18987425
>I make up stories so I can feel bad.
Got any proof, anon?

>> No.18987653

>>18987613
On the contrary I make up stories to cope with feeling bad.
Feeling bad preceded the stories.
There is an esoteric meaning to this.

>> No.18987708

>>18985632
Based

>> No.18987813

>>18982236
>>18987422
Can you recommend any books on the topic?

>> No.18988298

Facebook boomers are the most retarded people alive

>> No.18988351

>>18981865
calling yourself non-binary means you disagree with the binary system and identify outside of it

>> No.18988505

This thread confirms my belief that the world truly will be fucked once Zoomers get older and inherit it. There’s a reason Boomers are still in power for decades and refuse to die; once they go, shit will explode. You can make the argument that Zoomers are the single worst generation in human history because they offer absolutely nothing except irony, depression, entitlement and anxiety.

>> No.18988588

>>18983616
All of our political culture today is ressentiment but this “non-binary” nonsense of one of the best examples. It’s entirely driven by resentment of the gender binary, but since the gender binary necessarily must exist in order to justify that resentment, they end up affirming its existence and never surpass it, thus leading to decadence and leftist parasites falling into perpetual angst that they never achieve anything.

>> No.18988618

>>18982446
Imagine getting filtered by He Man

>> No.18988628

>>18988351
yes and the "outside" and "inside" form a new binary you dingus

>> No.18988629

>>18984539
Mass immigration

>> No.18988637

>>18984543
My high school and even some college teachers would put on Crash Course videos for us

>> No.18988896

>>18984539
gaining thousands upon thousands of esl's a year

>> No.18988912

>>18988505
But boomers created the world inhabited by zoomers, so who’s really to blame?

>> No.18988958

>>18988896
That number is by the hundreds of thousands, if not millions

>> No.18989148

>>18988637
You wot m8? Please explain what was going on with the college professors? Why did this happen?

>> No.18989264

>>18988637
I took a college mythology course with a female black professor. I looked up her uni and twitter bio and saw she posted a bunch of woke shit, but the course turned out to be much worse than my expectations. Most of the lectures were talking about lotr, star wars, capeshit, Joseph Campbell, and "lol greek gods don't give a fuck", along with watching crash course videos. It was so unbearable I dropped the class three weeks in.

>> No.18989278

>>18981897
ok satan

>> No.18989284

>>18981865
>Was widespread and mass literacy really actually and unironically a fucking mistake?

No - 'social' media was. In fact, letting normies and big corporation get to the internet to create their walled gardens instead of having those tens/hundreds of thousands of niche websites hosted and maintained by regular chaps indulging in their obscure hobbies etc. the internet used to be so ALIVE.

>> No.18989314

>>18985709
Religious zealots have nothing to do with it. It was George W. Bush's "No child left behind" act that made it so smart kids would check out after needing to answer the same question dozens of times and dumb kids might be able to figure out the answer after 10 tries.

>> No.18989319

>>18985598
>They read shit online.

What they read is in the form of a mutated English, the absence of any proper grammar, and largely in short 'bursts' of twitter-length restricted paragraphs. Do you really think there is any benefit, intellectually or socially, when this is the sum content of communication of ideas and thoughts in this modern era for 'that' generation? They are hopeless shits and I fear for the future, not least because they are going to (have to) enter the workforce to support my goddamn pension and retirement but that future don't look to bright to me.

>> No.18989336

>>18984519
>as this is much more natural to how humans have developed as a species.

that's right! Staring at a screen watching slick, psychologically fine-tuned videos to influence their ways of thinking (or rather, to flood their brain with correct-speak and correct-thought). Yes - very natural and the way the human species developed!

>> No.18989338

>>18981885
based and Platopilled

>> No.18989347

>>18985072
I get told a lot that I could be a professor, but really I don't know shit. I mean, I do read some actual lit, but I fill in the gaps with /lit/ shitposts, yet I still come off as insightful somehow.

>> No.18989397

>>18988637
My high school mythology class watched Marvel's Thor

>> No.18990154

>>18989397
Even Disney's Hercules would be better

>> No.18990212

>>18984539
No Child Left Behind

>> No.18990426

>>18984687
Do Americans not have to read anything in school? When I was in school (in Australia) even in primary school they had us read books fairly regularly, and not picture books either. Admittedly most wouldn't have gone on to read much after they no longer needed to, but they still got to read some books at least.

>> No.18990443

>>18985770
America is the most advanced country in the world, so it's getting there first.

>> No.18991121

>>18990426
I remember being in 4th grade and reading some story about a girl who moved to america from Puerto Rico. The thing that stood ot to me was how much it bothered her that Americans would pronounce her island's name in with an anglo accent. Even then it seemed to weird to me to be reading such garbage

>> No.18992224
File: 28 KB, 326x326, 16159049477021.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18992224

I used to read a lot of books as a kid and then I got a smartphone and completely stopped for several years

>> No.18992387

>>18992224
What is having a long break like? I have been considering chucking out my backlog and just taking six months of no lit to do more outdoor stuff. I feel the fatigue I get sometimes after too much music or too much tv. What was your experience like?

>> No.18992476

>>18984593
>I do genuinely hope that some day we can all reach a point where we're able to exist in the same space as people who aren't identical to us.
Uhm this already exists, we're all living on earth right now retard

>> No.18992956

>>18983784
Then be dead.

>> No.18993987

>>18981885
haha I'm going to reply "based" to this because i'm a misanthrope with little accomplishments to his name but i'd rather pin the blame on humanity's mistakes than my own

>> No.18994113

>>18982446
I've been laughing at this comment for like a minute now. How did you stumble into /lit/?

>> No.18994217

>>18982236
Most people don't need to be literate to participate in society though. A small elite of engineers can keep the lights on and the toilets flushing while the others can enjoy life's more immediate pleasures. What's the problem?

>> No.18994267
File: 937 KB, 2528x1679, Prometheus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18994267

>>18988912
Both, the era of men is over

>> No.18994343

>>18981865
the only mistake about wide spread literacy is the fact that americans were allowed to achieve it, even if just barely

>> No.18994493

>>18985638
I always laugh when girls at my uni complain about a 600 word "essay" about textbook reading. It's not even an hour of work if you know what you've read.

>> No.18995987

>>18981865
The consequences of our actions are unknowable. Was it a mistake at the time, or only in retrospect?

>> No.18996006

>>18993987
based

>> No.18996039

>>18994267
Neither, since everybody in history functioned according to subconscious directives and therefore behaved predictably.

>> No.18996051

>>18985615
Phonetic writing systems are good though. There are plenty of languages that already have phonetic spelling, what awful thing has happened to them?

>> No.18996100

>>18981865
Yes. Proof: reddit would say no.
/thread

>> No.18996247

>>18996100
Reversed stupidity is not intelligence.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/qNZM3EGoE5ZeMdCRt/reversed-stupidity-is-not-intelligence

>> No.18996262

>>18996247
You are wrong. Proof: you linked a reddit site.

>> No.18996269

>>18996262
No, lesswrong is not in a reddit domain.
More concisely: the world's greatest fool may say the sun is shining, but that doesn't make it dark out. Stalin also believed that 2+2=4.

>> No.18996281

>>18996269
>Stalin also believed that 2+2=4.
He also killed millions of commies which makes him based unlike you and your brethren.

>> No.18996334

>>18996247
This is an interesting site. Thanks for the link.

>> No.18996397

>>18981885
Based

>> No.18996668
File: 209 KB, 786x1113, Jacques_Ellul,_1990_(cropped).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18996668

>>18981865
Mass literacy was only ever introduced so that the masses could absorb propaganda more easily. Education has never been geared towards elevating intelligence.

>> No.18996730

>>18996334
I'm glad you like it, the Sequences have helped clear up a lot of confused thinking for me.