/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18972973]

>be me
>be reading up on free will
>realise Determinism is true and there is no free will
its so liberatng bros

[Anonymous No.18972975]

>He solved the Problem of Evil
Bros...

[Anonymous No.18973045]

>>18972973
what books were you reading ?

[Anonymous No.18973056]

>>18972973
You still have to act as if free will exists though. Don’t be like ‘dur no free will going to pay in bed all day curse this universe oh well’.

[Anonymous No.18973058]

>>18973045
Paul holbach, the illusion of free will

Buddhism, Meditation, and Free Will : A Theory of Mental Freedom by Rick repetti

Susan Wolf's "Sanity and the Metaphysics of Responsibility"

[Anonymous No.18973061]

>>18972973
>invade OP's house, murder him and steal his books
>show judge his post
>"Well it seems this young man didn't believe in existence of souls, he considered himself an automaton of fate, and therefore cannot be commited a crime against. Sir, you're free to go!"

[Anonymous No.18973082]

>>18972973
There's no being to have a free will. There's only the bare fact of experience. Any being is just a characteristic of the bare fact of experience.

[Anonymous No.18973107]

>>18973082
uh huh so there is a being, you meant to say there is no self, theres only an idea of self, thats the designation argument of buddism

[Anonymous No.18973120]

>>18973107
Yeah, that.

[Anonymous No.18973147]

>>18973061
I'd love that to be the law

[Anonymous No.18973171]

>>18973056
>dur free will going to pay in bed all day bless this universe boo yah
am i wrong?

[Anonymous No.18973176]

>>18972973
What are you liberated from?
>good and evil
>truth
>purpose
>duty
>freedom itself
The only thing one could reasonable say you are now "free" of, that on it's surface might be desirable, is responsibility. But thereby you are also free of the joy it is to fulfill that responsibility and do your part. You are already in inauthentic despair, cease posting happy wojaks to ensare other to your way of thinking and accept your cross.

[Anonymous No.18973181]

>>18973171
I suppose not. It’s actually how I live my life most days as well.

[Anonymous No.18973201]

>>18973176
thats actually a good point
to be a moral agent responsible for my actions, so i do have free will after all! yay!

[Anonymous No.18973333]

You have free will insofar as you don't know what the future will hold

But yes it's also good to remember that fate and chance are different - a man raised in ghetto has a much higher chance of dying drunk but it ain't confirmed from birth

[Anonymous No.18973349]

>>18973333
checked

[Anonymous No.18973470]

I dont understand why determinism would prevent free will.
If anything, determinism is surely a pre requisite of free will.
We make decisions by weighing all of the information available to us and then choosing the option that most satisfies us based on what we expect using that information. Determinism is necessary for that process to be carried out.
>But if you had all the information in the universe you could calculate the future! Your decisions are already determined!
That's not an issue, because nobody within the universe has enough information to do that. And if they did, gaining that information would change what they plan to do and therefore change the original conclusion.

[Anonymous No.18973483]

>>18973470
The decision making instrument (the brain) is embedded in the deterministic system (creation), so no free will.

[Anonymous No.18973492]

free will is a quantum dice roll

[Anonymous No.18973523]

Two questions determocucks are afraid to answer:
>if human will is determined, who is a Prime Mover?
>determinism implies linear flow of time (causal nature of reality) and objective perception of it by the human mind. How do it bode with the fact of relativity and the problem of infinite regress?

[Anonymous No.18973528]

>realize God loves us no matter how much we hate Him
>realize God gives us faith through no will of our own
>realize suffering is inevitable but Grace is a gift freely given

[Anonymous No.18973555]

>>18973470
>That's not an issue, because nobody within the universe has enough information to do that
That is not how it works. But lets say we ever manage to construct a box with such fantastic measurement devices, that we have total information about every bit of energy (matter and otherwise) inside. Trajectory, rotation, speed, everything we could possibly know about the volume contained in that box, we do know. Then we put a human inside. Does he lose his free will in that moment?

[Anonymous No.18973595]

>>18973061
based albino posting

[Anonymous No.18973596]

I don't want to die. This whole situation is so fucking stupid, it's so unfair. It makes no difference to me that we're all in it together. It's like when you're a kid and facing your fear of riding a scary Rollercoaster, yeah everyone is on the ride. But other people trying to talk to you doesn't make it any better, at the end of the day it's a battle within, and inherently lonely. I don't ask why am I here in a wondering manner, I ask it in an absolutely angry and frustrated manner. So stressful, brutal, nature is brutal, and man is just as brutal as nature. The only thing we live for is to see it end. Life is so ridiculously absurd.

[Anonymous No.18973617]

>>18973596
The Sickness Unto Death is the book for you

[Anonymous No.18973641]

>>18972973
You think you are free of responsibility?
Think again.

[Anonymous No.18973643]

>>18973333
Quads of truth

[Anonymous No.18973702]

>he thinks time is a straight line
filtered

[Anonymous No.18973720]

I have to admit I will never understand this argument. People will go down to the level of neurochemistry and quantum physics trying to prove they're right about determinism or about free will, when evidently it makes no difference on a subjective scale.

[Anonymous No.18973778]

Are thoughts deterministic as well or do you all believe your own thoughts are pre-determined?

[Anonymous No.18973813]

>>18972973
>tfw when empirically determined and transcendentally free

[Anonymous No.18973819]

>he thinks his opinion on free will vs determinism has any weight whatsoever
>he hasn't read pic related

[Anonymous No.18973996]

>>18973058
You don’t seem like you were aiming at the conclusion that you “realized” after reading these not cherry picked books at all

[Anonymous No.18974155]

>>18973045
Google images

[Anonymous No.18974198]

>>18973819
Not him but can you elaborate? I didn't read Fichte

[Anonymous No.18974217]

All arguments against hard determinism sound like (and are) brainlet copes.
That said, the main point of understanding the fact of hard determinism is then realizing that it doesn't even really matter.

[Anonymous No.18974486]

>>18973483
If this is the only argument, it's an incredibly weak one. It's up to you to demostrate that physical laws being the ground of all decisions precludes free will from emerging. Who are you to say that freedom isn't built into the universe's design? The irony is that in trying to use the clockwork world to refute free will, you make a very human judgement regarding the inhuman nature of explicitly mechanical systems. You're expecting free will to be a mystical, religious force that is separate from the universe, because you already judged the universe to be a cold, godless place

[Anonymous No.18974598]

>>18972973
For me? I believe in Τύχη.

[Anonymous No.18974628]

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FINITUDE OF THE SUBJECT.

[Anonymous No.18974635]

>>18974486
Everything only happens once, and it all only goes one way. Even if you thought you could have done something different, you didn't, and so everything moves on from the first cause, to wherever they're being inexorably led to.

[Anonymous No.18974645]

>>18973176
>But thereby you are also free of the joy it is to fulfill that responsibility and do your part
I would embrace this were it not for the fact that my impression of general society is that of a cold, hyper-competitive industrial apparatus so far divorced from my ideal of shared communal striving

[Anonymous No.18974659]

>>18972973
I'm determined to live as my will comands.

[Anonymous No.18975836]

>>18972973
Mainly true, it's just some of us have souls - an irregularity that let the few of us change the determined path.

[Anonymous No.18975864]

>>18973523
>>determinism implies linear flow of time (causal nature of reality)
not really, it's just determined 4d shape that we see 3d slices in a given time, no need for causality for 4d shape to exist. Causality is just an illusion.

[Anonymous No.18975870]

Holy... Basado.

[Anonymous No.18975877]

>>18973056
He can't actually decide how he will act.

[Anonymous No.18976243]

>>18972973
>not appreciating the implications of this realization, that is that it too was determined, and so your response, and so your response to this, and that, and so forth
Determinism doesn't eliminate responsibility since it necessitates an infinite regress of realization as you put it. In fact responsibility couldn't exist without determinism, because any other season would undermine causal logic, that is that you could do something in a predictable way to a predictable end, there is no responsibility in randomness which is the alternative to causal logic, eg, determinism.

This is precisely what Nietzsche meant when he referred to the eternal recurrence. The true weight of your will is understanding just how far it connects with everything else, including said understanding and so on ad infinitum. If you find that liberating then I can only think you were determined to be a fool.

[Anonymous No.18976248]

>>18976243
any other system*

retarded auto correct

[Anonymous No.18976270]

>>18975877
>playing retarded word games
You used the word he, suggesting an entity of sorts. The fact is that he is an experiential agent of the causal pertinence local to 'him'. For all intents and purposes, he does act, else he is not a he, and all talk is not talk, and all is subsumed by nonsense. For us to be complete observers as you imply is contradictory by the mere existence of the implication and its terms therein.

[Anonymous No.18976887]

>>18976243

[Anonymous No.18976969]

>>18976243
how does one deal with this?

[Anonymous No.18977225]

>>18976969
As best you can.

[Anonymous No.18977257]

[Anonymous No.18977263]

>>18973056
>you still have to
I dont think you quite get how this works kek

[Anonymous No.18977392]

>>18977257
lmao, which are you?

[Anonymous No.18977396]

>>18977392
Mix of Determinism + Who Knows

[Anonymous No.18977411]

>>18977396
I'm a who knows man myself

[Anonymous No.18977412]

>>18977257
me as free will

[Anonymous No.18977423]

Holy shit I have read almost all of this before, the sense of deja vu I am getting is absurd what the hell

[Anonymous No.18977431]

>>18973528
The left is based

[Anonymous No.18977440]

>>18977423
You're probably having a mild seizure don't worry
Free will threads are extremely repetitive though

[Anonymous No.18978291]

>>18973778
yes they are

[Anonymous No.18978356]

>>18973596
yup your right anon

[Anonymous No.18978379]

>>18972973
Godel's theorem
Alan Turing
George Cantor
Etc etc... Lit should read some physics once in a while. Logic is full of contradictions , or read E Micheal Jones if you hate Jews, u get the same info. Or just sit in your sad materialistic universe and watch Rick and Morty. Grow the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.18978580]

>>18973819
Absolutely this. I literally cried when I read Fichte

[Anonymous No.18978594]

>>18973528

Black and White will always tempt those who NEED things to be simpler.