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/lit/ - Literature

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18929223 No.18929223 [Reply] [Original]

Was he right?

>> No.18929226

>>18929223
About Iraq?
Absolutely
America stronk

>> No.18929227

>>18929223
No smoking in the shower,
Being a trot,
Being a rabid right wing ex-trot,
None of these are cool.

Drinking in the shower and shitting yourself is cool.

So 40% cool.

>> No.18929233

>>18929223
Depends on the topic. Israel? No. Religion? No. Clintons? Yes.

>> No.18929288

>>18929233
Religion yes wtf

>> No.18929292

>>18929223
/lit/ will rage, but Mother Teresa was a fraud and religion as a whole is infantile and degrading to the human spirit. Hitch was an absolute legend and maintains the power to ruffle feathers a decade after his death, and will continue to do so for many more decades.

>> No.18929306

>>18929292
>Mother Teresa was a fraud
This was debunked. Mother Teresa did nothing wrong.

>> No.18929313

>>18929292
I agree
Fuck India

>> No.18929332

He was right about alcohol
https://voca.ro/13mDGhyUKQKo

>> No.18929339

>>18929306
Her ideology is centered on the idea that suffering brings one closer to god, as such, her mission by definition was to increase suffering and deny care to the poor. She preyed on the ignorance of the vulnerable and immeasurably increased their suffering and was praised for it. A deeply depraved woman, and anyone who praises her is also deeply depraved.

>> No.18929343

>>18929223
Who are we discussing? Filename doesn't include the name of the person in question, and I'm face blind.

>> No.18929350

>>18929343
Christopher Hitchens

>> No.18929366
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18929366

>>18929223
>*smirks*
>God doesn’t exist, you fools.
>*gets ass cancer, dies, goes to Hell*
>AHHHHHH IT BURNS! AHHHHH!
>*is still screaming and writhing in flames forever*

I certainly shiggy diggy, anons.

>> No.18929380
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18929380

>>18929339
>her mission by definition was to increase suffering and deny care to the poor
That wasn't her mission.
>She preyed on the ignorance of the vulnerable and immeasurably increased their suffering and was praised for it.
That didn't happen.

>> No.18929409

>>18929380
>"Suffering is the only way to bring enhancement!"
>"Okay, but aren't enhancements only good because they bring an end to suffering"
>"NO! You should suffer always"
wtf is wrong with you people?

>> No.18929417

>>18929409
Nietzsche was an atheist.

>> No.18929430

>>18929366
He did say he wanted to go to hell

>> No.18929433

>>18929417
No he wasn't, he was one of the most religious individuals in centuries.

>> No.18929442

>>18929433
He influenced atheists though

>> No.18929452

>>18929442
"Atheists" are not a monolith, and they are far less of a homogeneous group than even the very divergent sects of Christianity. Nietzsche has had an impact in many spheres, but he has become a luminary to many Christians like Jordan Peterson

>> No.18929454

>>18929223
>Wrote hitpieces on old women who devoted their lives to caring for the dregs of society
I sure hope he repented towards the end

>> No.18929460

>>18929454
That old woman was a vile and monstrous piece of work hell bent on making the lot of the dregs of society WORSE in service of her own massive ego and warped world view. It's actually a shame that hell doesn't exist for such women to be thrown into.

>> No.18929465

>>18929452
Okay, maybe he had more an influence on “anti-theists” if you want to be a little more specific, I’m in no mood to type out exaggerated responses today.

>> No.18929477

>>18929460
What did she do wrong, anon

>> No.18929482
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18929482

he was mogged by his much more talented and moral younger brother

>> No.18929521

>>18929223
New atheists are a waste of time. John Gray was right when he said "New Atheism", humanism, and 'scientism' are extensions of religion, particularly Christianity.

>> No.18929522

>>18929477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76_qL6fiyDw

>> No.18929526

>>18929521
>The negation of a thing is an extension of that thing
Boy, that's a really retarded take

>> No.18929545

>>18929477
She didn't want to give him some pitty fuk

>> No.18929554

>>18929477
https://www.forbes.com/2010/08/10/forbes-india-mother-teresa-charity-critical-public-review.html?sh=77d4337a108e

>> No.18929568

>>18929477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UY-KkPY3vc

>> No.18929700

>>18929522
This "documentary" made by Christopher Hitchens is literally refuted by a reddit post, embarrassing

>> No.18929748

>>18929700
>Atheist central refuting a documentary from their God
How low can you go

>> No.18929778

>>18929288
all he did was give moral arguments

>> No.18929847

Somewhat (it depends on the issue), but his desire for attention through shock-value and wildly inconsistent positions showed how lazy he could be.

Things he was right about:
>The monarchy should be abolished
>Ireland should be reunited under the republic
>Libertarianism (the American definition) is for retards
>Iraq (1991)
>"Islamofascism" is bad
>The Kurds should have a country
>JFK was a trash president
>Mother Teresa was a monster
>Circumcision is child abuse

Things he was wrong about:
>Afghanistan
>Iraq (2003)
>Support for Bush
>How to defeat "Islamofascism"
>The Haditha massacre wasn't even that bad
>Conditions at Abu Ghraib improved with the arrival of coalition troops
>Abortion

He also needed to be waterboarded before deciding on whether or not it was torture.

>> No.18929958

He's proof certain Americans will lap up any plummy voiced brit if he's saying stuff they vaguely agree with, because they hear the accent and assume the speaker is smart

>> No.18930001

>>18929223
>Was he right?
Even he knew he was wrong deep down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9TMwfkDwIY

>> No.18931403

>>18929465
Holy shit you are an insufferable faggot

>> No.18931418

He was too contrarian for his own good

>> No.18931431

https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/gcxpr5/saint_mother_teresa_was_documented_mass_murderer/

>> No.18931524
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18931524

>ACKSHULLY MOTHER TERESA WAS BAD!
It seems like every leftist, atheist soiboy has tobday this at one point or another, and the only evidence they ever give is Hitchen's book without citations. Hitchens couldn't even offer any real proof when he was asked to go to thr Vatican and act as Devil's advocate during her canonization, but midwit atheist retards still take his word as Gospel.

>> No.18931553

>>18931524
There’s a reasonably sized book with the evidence of her typical ghoulish Catholic enterprises. She did nothing for them but get them off the streets and claim their spirits for the church. Pretty sickening, but that’s a saint in your cancer ridden head. Just agree to disagree, blowjack poster.

>> No.18931562

>>18931553
>tripfag is a faggot

>> No.18931569
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18931569

>There’s a reasonably sized book with the evidence of her typical ghoulish Catholic enterprises. She did nothing for them but get them off the streets and claim their spirits for the church. Pretty sickening, but that’s a saint in your cancer ridden head. Just agree to disagree, blowjack poster.

>> No.18931579

>>18931562
>Catholic blowjack poster doesn’t realize how many priests are homosexuals

>> No.18931588

>>18931569
Put it on a sticker and spread it around town.

>> No.18931598

>>18931579
>Tripfag can't defend hinself so he changes the subject like a bitch fag

>> No.18931604

>>18929223
I don't know who he is and what you're referring to, but I'm inclined to say no

>> No.18931608

>>18931598
Whats to defend? That wasn’t an attack. It was an empty slur. It just reveals you to be underage

>> No.18931615
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18931615

>Put it on a sticker and spread it around town.

>> No.18931629

This will always be one of the best retorts to a basedboy telling you that "you're not welcome here".

https://youtu.be/sl9b0sdf91s

>> No.18931649

>>18931553
>She did nothing for them but get them off the streets and claim their spirits for the church.
That's false.
>just trust me bro she's bad
Show the evidence.

>> No.18931677

>>18931649
>Didn’t read the book. Never saw the documentary.
See? Putting the destitute and dying out of sight makes them disappear

>> No.18931726

>>18931677
So you believe everything that has a book and documentary?

>> No.18932063

>>18929700
>"That was DEBOOOOOOOOOONKED"
Are you from reddit?

>> No.18932066

No, he wasn't right in anything.

>> No.18932073

>>18929430
Let's hope he gets an eternity of torture in the most extreme parts of hellfire.

>> No.18932081

>>18929847
>He also needed to be waterboarded before deciding on whether or not it was torture.
Which he did and went on to describe how torturous it is. That's pretty based.

>> No.18932517

i´m an atheist and for me he´s the descendant of the milquetoast liberalist ideology expounded by bertrand russel, a dumbfuck with a big ego, it doesn´t help either that he was a trokyist, he represents everything that was wrong with "alt-liberalism" in the 90s and early 2000s, suffers from the same stupidity as george carlin

>> No.18932549
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18932549

>>18929526
Sir, I'm afraid it is you who is the fool here. Your reply is both arrogant and totally ignorant of the genealogy of western morality. However, that is somewhat understandable considering it's a widely held myth that things like liberalism, humanism and scientism arose as opposition to Christianity. Perhaps a couple of quotes from an article by John Gray will illuminate the subject matter so you can understand:

'the triumph of Christianity was a rupture in Western civilisation. There is nothing at all self-evident about the equal intrinsic worth of all human beings or the inherent preciousness of individual persons. These values – which secular thinkers nowadays take for granted – were placed at the heart of the Western world by Christianity.'

'Holland comes into his own when he shows how Christianity created the values of the modern Western world. Not all Christians accepted the idea of original sin. Pelagius (AD 360-418) believed the only reason human beings act badly is that they have been accustomed to doing wrong from childhood – a view repeated in modern times by generations of liberals who have never heard of the early British theologian. Holland goes on to tell how the medieval French scholastic Peter Abelard (1079-1142) was accused of heresy for his assertion that God’s world was rational and governed by laws that humans could understand, only for this belief to inspire the founding of universities all over Christendom.'

https://www.newstatesman.com/dominion-making-western-mind-tom-holland-review
This is the article those excerpts are taken from, in which Gray is reviewing Tom Holland's book 'Dominion'. I am aware that Tom Holland is a pop historian so his book is probably not the best source to inform yourself on this issue therefore I will provide some more academic suggestions below:

Seven Types of Atheism by John Gray

The Theological Origins of Modernity by Michael Allen Gillespie

On the Genealogy of Morals by Friedrich Nietzsche

Inventing the Individual: The Origins of Western Liberalism by Larry Siedentop

The Secular Age by Charles Taylor

>> No.18932570

>>18929223
Yes.

>> No.18932611

>>18929223
About Iraq and Afghanistan? Yes. 100%.

About religion? No, he refused to engage in philosophical debate. All he ever did was make sociological and economic arguments, exactly like a communist would.

>> No.18932755

>>18929223
>WLC says that morality can't exist without God
>Hitchens takes this as a personal insult and says that atheists can be moral
>WLC clarifies that atheists can still be moral because God exists
>Hitchens continues to claim he's being insulted
Honestly one of the most embarrassing moments in atheist history.

>> No.18932835

it's a pleasure watching him speak, much more so than reading his texts, even though I don't agree with many things

>> No.18932852
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18932852

>>18931615
i fucking hate wojak posting, but some truly have artistic value

>> No.18932909

>>18931403
I know, now let’s kiss

>> No.18932991

>>18929847
Hot damn how can any one person be so stupid.
>The monarchy should be abolished
>Ireland should be reunited under the republic
>"Islamofascism" is bad
>The Kurds should have a country
>JFK was a trash president
>Mother Teresa was a monster
Only two things he gets right is lolberts being dumb and circumcision is bad.
Into the trash he goes.
>inb4 rant about how Mother Teresa was a monster and monarchy/islam bad
LMAO imagine being a materialist atheist loser who doesn't understand the usefulness in short term scarifies. The absolute state.

>> No.18933019

>>18929847
>less governments is for retards
>but also abolish monarchy
Sounds like he was a libertarian to me

>> No.18933032

>>18929339
>people still believe in this Reddit conspiracy
very sad many such cases

>> No.18933067
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18933067

Wtf guys?

>> No.18933133

>>18933019
>republics and democracies can’t be authoritarian

>> No.18933148

>“The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex, and picnics.”
Wrong on all counts.

>> No.18933922

>>18931677
Hmm, that’s one for butterfly. Got you there anon.

>> No.18934001

>>18929526
lol

>> No.18934015

>>18929847
>>Afghanistan
>>Iraq (2003)
>>Support for Bush

he was right about these

>> No.18934023

>>18929223
I'm the only guy on /lit/ who respects Christopher Hitchens, not because I agree with his views but because he was courageous and knew how to live.

>> No.18934026

>>18932991
>materialist atheist

What's the opposite of this?

>> No.18934154
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18934154

>>18934023

>> No.18934162

>>18934026
Spiritual ascetic

>> No.18934237

>>18934154
C'mon, the guy had an amazing life. You can't deny it.

>> No.18934680

>>18934026
non-materialist atheist

>> No.18934692

>>18929433
> he was one of the most religious individuals in centuries.
Elaborate

>> No.18934694
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18934694

>>18929223
Yep.

>> No.18934726

>>18931608
>says the old hag to the un broken Youth
your degenerate gynocentric world shall fall, and be restored into a real patriarchal society which shall will bring forth the eschaton, by taking away women's rights and turning them into onaholes

>> No.18934745

>>18933922
same fag kys

>> No.18934755

>>18932549
retroactively refuted by sam harris(pbuh)

>> No.18934852

>>18929847
>Things he was right about:
>>The monarchy should be abolished
>>Ireland should be reunited under the republic
>>Libertarianism (the American definition) is for retards
>>Iraq (1991)
>>"Islamofascism" is bad
>>The Kurds should have a country
>>JFK was a trash president
>>Mother Teresa was a monster
>>Circumcision is child abuse
He was wrong about all of those things other than circumcision. His slander against Mother Theresa was a particularly low point for him, other than somehow simultaneously being a socialist and a bloodthirsty neocon

>> No.18934861

>>18931524
There’s a Reddit post that completely btfos him
https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/gcxpr5/saint_mother_teresa_was_documented_mass_murderer/

>> No.18935243

>>18931726
I saw the sickly sat on the floor and no one administering any medical care.
She was a garbage collector for human refuse. A ghoul.

>> No.18935502

>>18934755
Has Sam Harris talked about this? What did he say? I was under the impression he was just the same as the rest of them.

>> No.18935614

>>18932549
>Unironically using the word "scientism"
Yep, you're retarded

>> No.18935627

>>18934023
/lit/ is composed overwhelmingly of nit wits, the label "mid wit" would be doing most users too much of a compliment. Christopher Hitchens is legitimately above most users' reading level.

>> No.18935665

>>18929339
>Her ideology is centered on the idea that suffering brings one closer to god, as such, her mission by definition was to increase suffering and deny care to the poor
Fucking stupid. She ran a hospice specifically to ease the suffering of the dying. She couldn't stop them suffering entirely though so gave meaning to their suffering through the fact that they were bearing their cross for Christ and would be crowned with eternal glory for overcoming their trials. Mother Teresa was not deliberately forcing people to suffer to bring them closer to God and if you think that you're a brainlet who still reads r/atheism

>> No.18935672

>>18929223
If Hitch saw the state of the west as it is today he would admit he was wrong and convert to Christianity.

>> No.18935680

>>18935665
Literally look into her hospices. Untrained volunteers caring for people dying of cancer or diabetes, nuns amputating toes or limbs with no anesthetic, people being kept from going to hospital for things that could absolutely be treated and cured. She was not a friend to the diseased, she was a friend to disease.

>> No.18935710

>>18935680

Based anon. rotten.com had a great takedown of Mother Teresa written up years ago.

>> No.18935719

>>18929223
E.Michael Jones destroyed his entire moral tenets from what I read on him in Logos Rising. Atheism is a sad mindset.

>> No.18935720

>>18935680
>people being kept from going to hospital for things that could absolutely be treated and cured
Nobody was going to treat or cure them. These were the poorest of the poor, they couldn't afford medical care nor would any institution offer them some. Their option was the hospice or dying in a filthy gutter. Don't create an option of "being treated and cured" when none existed, This is why you're being called out for being deliberately disingenuous.

>> No.18935723

Fat, repulsive, British, and a journalist

>> No.18935725

>>18929292
Reading St.Thomas aquinas changed my mind on cringe atheism.

>> No.18935744

>>18935720
I bet you that disingenuous anon is a heretical Jew himself.

>> No.18936077

>>18935720
HMM I wonder if someone had massive donations coming in where only like 8% was spent on the hospices while the rest got funneled to private bank accounts. If only there had been some way to fund those hospitals where people could actually get medical treatment and not die!

>> No.18936247

>>18936077
Your full of shit.
First India has a caste system that discriminates against non Hindu populations for care and resources and has is a ton of red tape around what she could have done. Second she had no moral obligation to help but did so because she wanted to and did so in the ways that she knew. Its like saying your a bad person for letting a homeless person sleep in your spare room.
Lastly, she does not share your same materialistic axioms. Now let me pretend your strawman of her work is true, that she tortured people who needed care because she was a bad person and they all died. If she was able to get them to covert on their deathbed because she showed them love that no one else could then she gets my stamp of approval for preforming the most important task there is, saving souls.

>> No.18936260

>>18936077
>He actually believed this blatant bullshit
Is this the power of atheist critical thinking?

>> No.18936388
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18936388

>>18935614
I'm not that guy but the definition for Scientism is:

>Scientism is the view that science is the best or only objective means by which society should determine normative and epistemological values.

That sounds like a good description of what these 'rational atheists' believe. I hope you're not one of these Sam Harris fanboys.

>> No.18936513

>>18936247
And there we have it. You'd rather focus on making people convert to your bizarre cult rather than actually preventing suffering or helping to heal people. You people are legitimately psychotic.

>> No.18936540
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18936540

>>18935614
What's the problem with the term Scientism?

>> No.18936550
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18936550

>>18936513
Where were all the atheist organizations in Calcutta helping these people get their medical treatments?

>> No.18936805

>>18929223
Nah, a good rhetorician but his arguments were always terrible and often boiled down to some anecdotes and "it's just obvious"

>> No.18936814

>>18936550
There are plenty of non-religious charities who provide medical care like Doctors Without Borders.

>> No.18936881

>>18936814
So where were they in Calcutta when Mother Teresa was there and how many poor Indians did they save?

>> No.18936883

>>18936540
It's a word used strictly by ignoramuses

>> No.18936890

>>18936814
If you don't produce 30 years of receipts, names of doctors, patients, hospitals, and pharmaceutical orders than the other anon wins and Devil Teresa continues to be a saint. We're all counting on you, anon!

>> No.18936891

>>18936883
It's a philosophical term with a specific meaning. Atheist midwits don't like it because having their epistemology actually given a term makes them vulnerable to criticism and atheists try to avoid having their actual worldview identified so they can criticise other views but hide theirs behind the conceit that their position is just "lack of belief" and doesn't commit them to any specific positive views.

Just another chapter in the long sad history of atheists not being able to do philosophy or understand metaphysics.

>> No.18936895

>>18936890
It seems reasonable to me that if you're going to criticize Mother Teresa for providing palliative care in the poorest areas of Calcutta in a way that doesn't meet your standards then you should provide a non-religious organization that was providing care to the same people up to the standards you require. Otherwise you're just complaining that someone who donated to charity didn't donate enough for you to give them credit even though nobody else was pitching in, and are thus being a hypocritical faggot.

>> No.18936936
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18936936

>>18936513
>You'd rather focus on making people convert to your bizarre cult rather than actually preventing suffering
Yes.

>> No.18936954

>>18936513
Also I'd like to mention you misunderstand that we do aim to end the suffering just not of this world. In this world there will always be suffering due to the fallen state in which we live in; however, this will be nothing in comparison to the suffering you will experience if you do not repent heathen.