/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18928774]

What are some books about paganism?

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDY3cHnRY No.18928788]

THE SORDID REALITY OF PAGANISM...

[Anonymous No.18928795]

>>18928774
It's incredibly how much the nips hate christianism desu. They do seem to love Jewish symbolism...very suspicious.

[Anonymous No.18928807]

>>18928774
Pic related. Stephen McNallen founded the largest pagan hof denomination in North America. There's also Vargs books.

[Anonymous No.18928811]

>>18928807
Also the Prose Edda

[Anonymous No.18928812]

>>18928788
Have you read René Girard?

[Anonymous No.18928821]

[Anonymous No.18928826]

>>18928774
I’ve heard about The Ancient City by Coulanges

[Anonymous No.18928834]

>>18928821
You can tell this is some kike bullshit. Thor dressed as a woman to trick a troll and kill it. Just like the drag queens/trannys of today if you think about. They dress up to trick parents/kids and kill their innocence when nobody is looking

[Anonymous No.18928847]

>>18928774
The Sacred and the Profane, by Mircea Eliade
Hammer of the Gods: Anglo-Saxon Paganism in Modern Times, by Swain Wodening
Summoning the Gods, by Collin Cleary
The Asatru Edda, by the Norroena Society
Hellenic Polytheism: Household Worship, by Labrys
Essays on a Polytheistic Philosophy of Religion, by Edward P. Butler
Temple of the Cosmos, by Jeremy Naydler
Wights and Ancestors, by Jenny Blain

[Anonymous No.18928897]

Irenaeus - Against Heresies

[Anonymous No.18929209]

>>18928795
Why are the Japanese so obsessed with Gnosticism on that same note?

[Anonymous No.18929257]

>>18928788
KILLING IS... LE BAD

[Anonymous No.18929276]

>>18928795
>>18929209
I would like to know too. Is there any literature about that? It's pretty funny how much they hate Christianity. Most pieces of japanese media is about killing god or usurping him. Every JRPG that comes out is about that lol.

[Anonymous No.18929298]

>>18928774
Retarded to base your interest in it off of some random Jap writer or Hollywood who are just making up stuff.

Also related is the poem The Dream of the Rood. Jesus is framed differently there.
>The poem may also be viewed as both Christian and pre-Christian. Bruce Mitchell notes that The Dream of the Rood is "the central literary document for understanding [the] resolution of competing cultures which was the presiding concern of the Christian Anglo-Saxons". Within the single culture of the Anglo-Saxons is the conflicting Germanic heroic tradition and the Christian doctrine of forgiveness and self-sacrifice, the influences of which are readily seen in the poetry of the period. Thus, for instance, in The Dream of the Rood, Christ is presented as a "heroic warrior, eagerly leaping on the Cross to do battle with death; the Cross is a loyal retainer who is painfully and paradoxically forced to participate in his Lord's execution". Christ can also be seen as "an Anglo-Saxon warrior lord, who is served by his thanes, especially on the cross and who rewards them at the feast of glory in Heaven".
>This image of Christ as a 'heroic lord' or a 'heroic warrior' is seen frequently in Anglo-Saxon (and Germanic) literature and follows in line with the theme of understanding Christianity through pre-Christian Germanic tradition.

[Anonymous No.18929312]

>>18928834
The crossdressing is only humorous. Doubly humorous that a man could trick someone when he is so obviously a man. Crossdressing was always a humorous/ridiculous thing for men to do and semi-tolerated but odd for women to do. Only when it became associated with sexual deviants did it become a thing you wouldn't want to do and didn't find funny. Even up till the early 2000s this holds.

[Anonymous No.18929327]

>>18928795
>>18929276
Nips were mongrelized by their government in times of Jesuits. They killed all converts, tortured and murdered if they didn't step on Jesus. If not that, Japan would probably be Catholic by now.

[Anonymous No.18929337]

>>18928788
Do you seriously need a reminder of all the fucked up shit that has been done in the name of Christianity?

[Anonymous No.18929342]

>>18929337
like what?

[Anonymous No.18929345]

>>18929327
What a cope lmao

[Anonymous No.18929349]

>>18929337
Here it is, made up secular myth about how the church was bad.
Show us some examples!

[Anonymous No.18929357]

>>18929345
cope why exactly? haven't you heard what those bugmen did to Jesuits and kirishtans?

[Anonymous No.18929388]

>>18928788
What's bottom left? That's far and away the worst and on another level

[Anonymous No.18929393]

>>18929349
>>18929342
The Crusades and the Inquisition? Witch burning in Europe? Paedophilia in the Catholic church? The wars between protestants and Catholics? Like, literally just Google it?

[Anonymous No.18929396]

*ahem* paganism has never worked in practice
>but that wasn't true paganism
no true pagan fallacy.

[Anonymous No.18929400]

>>18928795
>>18928897
>>18929209
>>18929276
Absolutely FUMING christcucks lmfao

[Anonymous No.18929401]

>>18929209
Because they're based and Gnosticism is true.

[Anonymous No.18929418]

>>18928788
AW HELL YEAH! ARSON!

[Anonymous No.18929434]

>>18929257
How many have you killed? Are you just a pagan poser?

>>18929337
>in the name of
If I do something in YOUR name are you responsible for it?

[Anonymous No.18929437]

>>18929337
Those in the pic aren't things "done in the name of". They're rituals of the religions themselves.

[Anonymous No.18929439]

>>18929393
>The Crusades
The Crusades were a defensive war against Muslim invaders, despite what modern-day academics would like you to believe.
>the Inquisition
Any society that doesn't punish heretics for what they are will eventually decline. It's in the best interest of the sinner as well.
>Witch burning in Europe?
The Salem Witch Trials were really more of a dumb populist movement, and many Church Fathers rejected them. Has nothing to do with Christianity in of itself. You know this, you're just being disingenuous at this point.
>Paedophilia in the Catholic church?
Well, I'm not a Catholic heathen. That being said, this is obviously not a crime committed 'in the name of Christianity,' although it was concealed by a Christian institution.
>The wars between protestants and Catholics?
By that logic, all political movements whatsoever are bad because people actually fight for what they believe in. Unbelievably retarded.
>Like, literally just Google it?
Yeah, I'd rather not you dumb r*dditor. Look what googling things has done for you, absolutely embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.18929441]

>>18928774
source for webm?

[Anonymous No.18929448]

>>18929393
Ok, let's go.
>The Inquisition
>Witch burning in Europe
Piotrowski in "The Accused Church," writes that the Inquisition did not start lynchings of alleged witches, but limited them. It banished the "judgments of God" and the mindless cruelty of secular courts, often using ordals. The Church actually said very early that belief in witches comes from pagan beliefs and its thus prohibited, John Chrysostom wrote a whole book about it and he died in 407 or so. In 906 the Canon Episcopi was published, which unequivocally declared that accounts of witches' sabbaths, broomstick flying and similar stories should be considered expressions of pagan superstition, and descriptions of such events -- the products of wild fantasy, confusion of dreams with reality or the result of deception by an evil spirit. In the context of this approach, the later work of the Church Inquisition in matters of magic should be considered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Episcopi
The well-known "courts of God" (such as throwing the accused into water), also referred to as ordals, were repeatedly opposed by the Church and were even forbidden by the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215.
Actually, the number of death sentences of all types of the Inquisition is estimated at a maximum of 25,000 during its 700 years of operation, a figure that mainly includes those convicted of common crimes such as bigamy, sodomy, theft in churches, horse stealing, rape of female arrestees (guards), spying for the Arabs, and breaking the secret of confession (priests). The prisons of the Inquisition were much lighter than secular prisons during the same historical period. Similarly, torture, a routine method of investigation in the Middle Ages, was much lighter in the Inquisition's execution and limited by detailed regulations. Medieval inquisitors used two types of imprisonment. The first, murus largus, consisted of sentencing the guilty to stay in a monastery, with very strictly limited rights of movement; the second, murus strictus, consisted of strict confinement in a monastery cell. In both cases, the prisoner received minimal food and was forbidden contact with the outside world (only visits from a spouse were permitted). Prisoners were usually sentenced to life imprisonment, but this was generally reduced later. The isolation in the monastery by its character was undoubtedly more similar to penitential practice than to criminal punishment. The Inquisition introduced into medieval jurisprudence the institution of defense counsel, multi-institutionality, the jury function, and the possibility of early dismissal for good behavior. It also enabled the accused to challenge the impartiality of the judge.

The Inquisition was a beautiful institution. Stop being retarded. Go read books.
If I find some time I will reply to the rest. Witch burning is a protestant meme, the Crusades were just and beautiful wars, paedophilia is a secular meme to attack the church. LEARN FUCKING HISTORY.

[Anonymous No.18929473]

>>18929396
Rome

[Anonymous No.18929486]

>>18929396
Athens

[Anonymous No.18929492]

A general comment for you all: you don't have to deny Christianity's history to be a Christian, just like you don't have to deny science's history to be pro-science. Many shitty things were done in the name of science, medicine, psychology, etc. Many "scientists" were just quacks, but they still formed part of a loose movement which encouraged certain types of unethical behaviour at times. Science isn't like that today (for the most part). Denying Christianity's history keeps it stuck in the past, guarantees that shitty things will continue to be done in its name or its followers. Accepting the sins of your predecessors means you can look to the future with an open mind. Unless you're really a traditionalist (and therefore an extremist by today's standards), in which case I don't think a conversation with you will be helpful.

>>18929434
If I encouraged it (witch burning, wars), coordinated it (the Crusades) or hid its evidence (paedophilia), then yes.
>>18929437
Nice evasive semantics.
>>18929439
>The Crusades were a defensive war against Muslim invaders, despite what modern-day academics would like you to believe.
Only true to a certain extent.
>Any society that doesn't punish heretics for what they are will eventually decline.
I have no comment for that, you must be fun at parties.
>Witch burning has nothing to do with Christianity in of itself
A religion is defined by its followers, the two can't be separated.
>The wars between protestants and Catholics: By that logic, all political movements whatsoever are bad because people actually fight for what they believe in.
Murdering your fellow man for a sky god isn't the same as campaigning for things like human rights, higher wages, equality, etc. or against injustices more broadly.
>Look what googling things has done for you, absolutely embarrassing.
Is there something in the bible about being close minded?
>>18929448
>The Inquisition was a beautiful institution.
Ok.

[Anonymous No.18929511]

>>18929434
>How many have you killed? Are you just a pagan poser?
aye bro listen to this!!!
fuck off

and im not claiming to be pagan anyway
but im certainly not going to worship a random desert deity

[Anonymous No.18929514]

>>18929492
>I have no comment for that, you must be fun at parties.
Hedonistic cumbrains like you are the reason why this world is failing. All further opinions discarded.

[Anonymous No.18929516]

>>18929439
>>18929448
Absolutely btfo, anons like this make me want to convert

[Anonymous No.18929525]

>>18929516
Do it, anon. Just make sure to actually go to a congregation, rather than being an online LARPer. You'll meet like-minded people, too. It's great.

[Anonymous No.18929528]

Christianity is obviously false. All the rest is cope. Won't read replies, don't bother

[Anonymous No.18929534]

>>18929388
Wicker man.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_man

[Anonymous No.18929536]

>>18929473
Rome had slavery and killed animals to predict the future.

[Anonymous No.18929542]

>>18929536
Greatest civilization to ever have existed on this planet. Cope harder.

[Anonymous No.18929543]

Christians are the same broken minded lunatics as liberals.
One just jerks off to a cross while the other does the same to a rainbow flag.
It's especially pathetic when white males belive in it.

[Anonymous No.18929560]

>>18929542
I'm stating plain facts. If your pagan brain thinks that's coping so be it.

[Anonymous No.18929564]

>>18929492
>you don't have to deny Christianity's history to be a Christian, just like you don't have to deny science's history to be pro-science. Many shitty things were done in the name of science, medicine, psychology, etc. Many "scientists" were just quacks, but they still formed part of a loose movement which encouraged certain types of unethical behaviour at times. Science isn't like that today (for the most part). Denying Christianity's history keeps it stuck in the past, guarantees that shitty things will continue to be done in its name or its followers.
The same concept can be applied to paganism in modern times. Religion evolves and the rituals do not have stay the same

[Anonymous No.18929582]

>>18928795
The Japanese spent centuries trying to prevent Jesuit subversion. Christianity acts as a revolutionary force led by foreign fanatics that up turn the traditional social order (at least initally) and sow discontent. If the Jesuits were successful in any meaning sense, a weakened Japan would have easily be colonised by European powers. Its traditions and native religions, bastardized and elements aggressively destroyed by fanatics and rilled up mobs, as has happened countless times over gobally and which was already underway in Japan where Buddhist temples were attacked. It would be today culturally insignificant, and you would know as much about Japanese culture as you would about that of the Philippines. Japan's relative long-standing ideological independence and freedom from foreign rulers and empires, allowed it to develop culuturally more organically and authentically, without destructive culutural revolutions and fanatical foreign interference, and that still is seen today at least superficially.

[Anonymous No.18929585]

>>18929564
Agreed! Great point! I'm not a pagan btw, if that wasn't clear.
>>18929514
Again: is there something in the bible about being close minded?

[Anonymous No.18929612]

>>18929585
>muh close-mindedness
You have literally turned your vices into political and social movements. You defend them, because you are enslaved by them, to the degree that you regard them as innate qualities. Of course you jump at every opportunity to reject and criticize Christianity. I feel bad for you, anon. I'm obviously not going to change your mind, so this is a pointless debate. This is you last (You).

[Anonymous No.18929616]

>>18929393
I don't disagree but witch burning and inquisitions were not under the authority of the catholic church, they were more opportunistic local authorities and it only get bad in the early modern period when europe was rife with religious turbulence. The church maintained that witches and witchcraft did not exist the whole time. many 'witches' are just problematic people someone wanted to lose all reputation and imprison.

[Anonymous No.18929619]

>>18929400
>FUMING
that isn't on the flowchart?! HELP

[Anonymous No.18929624]

>>18928788
>testosterone-fueled blood rituals to gain power in order to pursue your destiny to its fullest in the name of the one who gives you power
vs
>this whitebread represents the flesh of a smelly jew who was abused by the romans for their political gain
tough choice b

[Anonymous No.18929631]

>>18929624
*chop*

[Anonymous No.18929635]

>>18929612
I'm interested in your response and thoughts on this >>18929564

[Anonymous No.18929638]

>>18929612
Keep seething. Not everyone who thinks Christianity is bullshit is a liberal

[Anonymous No.18929650]

>>18929492
>Accepting the sins of your predecessors means you can look to the future with an open mind
At this point Christianity is by all accounts false if you accept this premise. Religions aren't malleable, at least to the truly faithful. Why would a Christian feel the need to justify himself to depraved animals who hate his faith either way? And before you ask, yes I'm well aware "liberal" Christians exist, which is why I am disillusioned with religion in the first place. The idea that there are these groups making religion a malleable institution for the advancement of abstract social issues is unbelievably pathetic to me, not to mention if you believe shit like gay marriage is fine while claiming to be a Christian you're just willfully ignoring your own doctrine, and therefore making your entire faith null.
>I have no comment for that, you must be fun at parties
Why is appealing to someone's social life considered a valid argumentative tactic these days? How would that matter? Surely you understand the average person is mind-numbingly retarded, and that the usual people you'll find at parties would believe your politics are pure evil, right? No one even partially intelligent about anything in this time takes the opinions of the rabble seriously.

[Anonymous No.18929661]

>>18929612
Big cringe, no comment

[Anonymous No.18929665]

>>18929492
>>The Inquisition was a beautiful institution.
>Ok.
Kek, you will just ignore all of what he said and keep going with your ignorance, right?

[Anonymous No.18929667]

>>18929582
Japan WAS colonised by European powers, its traditions and native religions bastardised. And this isn't even true. It would be (rather it WAS) Brits/Americans doing it and they would leave the religious and political structure intact like they did everywhere else that was sufficiently developed.

[Anonymous No.18929851]

>>18929327
>"...To think that Japanese would be heckin wholesome Catholic doggos for heckin wholesome God and licking black feet like our dear Poperino... Catholic bros, how did we lose?"

[Anonymous No.18929886]

>>18929439
>The Crusades were a defensive war against Muslim invaders, despite what modern-day academics would like you to believe.
Yes, and they were also Holy and Religiously fuelled and motivated. There is no contradiction. 30,000 children were sent on their own Crusade to peacefully convert all muslims and take Jerusalem based on the supposed miracles and visions of a little boy. That is the reality of the absolute lunacy and collective madness one experiences living under the theocratic boot of powerful religious institutions. They were expecting the Mediterranean to part ways for them but instead they were all captured and sold into slavery in North Africa by merchants and pirates.
>Any society that doesn't punish heretics for what they are will eventually decline. It's in the best interest of the sinner as well.
You call Catholics heathens sentences latter. Are they not heretics that should be punished? Every society that has ever existed has their heretics, today is no different. What differs is the degree of punishment and scope of what is considered 'heresy'. Racism and sexism are two heresies of today. The difference is you don't have to endure violent, sadistic tortue and potential death at the hands of degenerate clergymen or being beaten to death by a mob, but rather having your twitter deleted and maybe losing your job. Salem is one among many, and is only popular because of media and the fact in occured in the US.
>By that logic, all political movements whatsoever are bad because people actually fight for what they believe in. Unbelievably retarded.
The difference is political movements tend towards creating a a better world in the here and now, rather than religious debates on dogma and spiritual abstractions about saving your eternal soul. Although, to some extent I agree here, as most or all major political movements do have a metaphysical foundation. If you really do believe in your particular system about the salvation of souls, fanatical devotion to the cause and eradicating 'dangerous' opposition is entirely logical.

>>18929448
>paedophilia is a secular meme to attack the church.
Biggest lie in this thread. Paedophilia and homosexual abuse is an epidemic in the Catholic Church, particulary in seminaries. There are entire lay Catholic organizations that spend their time uncovering and trying to bring to light the extent of abuses. I had the unfortunate pleasure growing up in a very Catholic family in a very Catholic country to see the extent of scandals, corruption and abuses most of which will never see the light of day. And if it is bad now, with the amount of scrutiny directed at the Church, I can't imagine what it was like when the Church actually had power and influence over society.

[Anonymous No.18929942]

>>18929631
God didn't defend him from repercussions for doing it either.

[Anonymous No.18929963]

>>18929631
*chop*

[Anonymous No.18929979]

>>18929401
>Gnosticism
snake oil esotericistic crap. pure nonsense. no wonder it only lives on through jewlywood and yellow dicklet cartoons.

[Anonymous No.18930005]

>>18929582
It's often lost that Christianity's influence in Japan only waxed after the destruction of the Ikko-Ikki, a radical anarchistic Buddhist sect rooted in Pure Land Buddhism. Christianity in Japan was very quickly identified as being Ikko-Ikki 2.0. Whereas the Ikko-Ikki were largely content to just unite the various classes of society (against the increasing hierarchy of the Shogun), the Christians not only wanted to destroy the native Japanese hierarchy, but then prop up low-class Japs as janissaries to be used by foreigners. Whereas the Patriarch (technically of the sect that the Ikko-Ikki sided with, as the sect and the Ikko-Ikki weren't the same thing) was nominally loyal to Japan, its people, its Gods, the Tenno, and the Shogun, the Pope was outright hostile and wanted to destroy all of that. The theology of the Ikko-Ikki was ultimately concerned with creating a religious system by which people could slowly be siphoned out of this sinful world towards the next, the Pope's was based entirely around destroying the world (it would be in reaction to this that Motoori Norinaga would create his Japanese Neoconfucian theology of Japan as the ontological center of the world) and damning as many people to hell as possible. The Ikko-Ikki were content to worship the very real Kami, and venerate the very real Buddha, and the Bodhisattvas, but the Christians not only rejected them, but instead worshiped books and crosses. Perhaps worst of all, the Ikko-Ikki were content to maintain the purity and harmony of the Japanese people, whereas the Christians were only even in Japan to create a Janissary caste that would let the Portuguese ship boatloads of niggers in to turn the entire country into a massive plantation in the same vein as Brazil.

It's no wonder the Shogunate took immediate action, Japan had already seen the damage that the Ikko-Ikki had done, and here was something twice as destructive and twice as virulent.

[Anonymous No.18930011]

>>18929393
>Like
>Literally
>Google

[Anonymous No.18930024]

>>18929886
>And if it is bad now, with the amount of scrutiny directed at the Church, I can't imagine what it was like when the Church actually had power and influence over society.
This isn't really relevant to Japan, but during the Conquest of Mexico, pedophilia and homosexuality were absolutely rife within the Dominicans, Jesuits, and Franciscans. The Catholic Church was constantly dealing with this problem that was essentially endemic to all clerics, as you'd frequently get in four-way bouts of everyone pointing out everyone else's gay pre-pubescent lovers whenever the Church-Proper, the Dominicans, the Franciscans, and the Jesuits would (inevitably) come to blows.

[Anonymous No.18930026]

>>18930005
Good post

[Anonymous No.18930028]

>>18929963

[Anonymous No.18930033]

>>18930005
>>18930026
Samefag, absolutely deluded.

[Anonymous No.18930052]

>>18930005
I should add, the identification of Christianity as Ikko-Ikki 2.0 was one the Japanese themselves made. Christianity was intellectually understood by the Japanese as being something they'd already dealt with before, it wasn't really new. Theologically, it was also well understood by native scholars, as its doctrines had been in the country for some time. It was even considered as a candidate for the unifying religion of Japan (that would go on to be certain strains of Buddhism that were then replaced with Shinto).

Ironically, had the Pope and the Portuguese king not have used it as a weapon against the Japanese, they'd probably have converted and slowly been guided into it by the Jesuits. Something similar happened in China, where the Ming Emperor was more than willing to make Christianity the fourth of China's State Religions, but the Pope threw a temper tantrum and ruined it.

[Anonymous No.18930055]

>>18929441
I SAID, SOURCE FOR WEBM??????

[Anonymous No.18930063]

>>18930052
Samefag! Take your meds samefag! You're samefagging!

[Anonymous No.18930070]

>>18929441
>>18930055
I'm pretty sure it's Vinland Saga's anime (I only read the manga). All of the seething LARPers here are making fools of themselves (they're gay nerds, it's to be expected) because it's actually very pro-Christian.

[Anonymous No.18931150]

>>18929257
yes, yes it is.