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/lit/ - Literature

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18903345 No.18903345[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Has there ever been a historical example of a true philosopher king like Plato envisaged?

>> No.18903348

>>18903345
>Inb4 RC Waldun
Do NOT post this

>> No.18903420

>>18903348
But, Anon, it's the closest thing we have to one

>> No.18903427

>>18903345
julius caesar?

>> No.18903437

>>18903345
Marcus Aurelius, but he failed to create the nocturnal council and put his retarded son in his place

>> No.18903442

>>18903345
No, and that was part of the point of the Republic according to Leo Strauss. The perfectly just regime has never existed in practice, and any attempt to create it will result in monstrous forms of injustice.

>> No.18903443

>>18903437
>opium addict

next

>> No.18903454

>>18903427
>>18903437
Both interesting answers. Love Aurelius but gotta say he was sometimes a poor judge of character.

>>18903442
Sure I get that but has an individual, not a regime, ever cropped up that looked like he had the right stuff. Doesn't matter if the republic itself never emerged.

>> No.18903458

>>18903442
I don't think Plato believed his system wouldn't work. He tried to implement something like that in Syracuse. Of course it went horribly wrong, but he tried.

>> No.18903508

Yeah, Plato.

>> No.18903513

>>18903458
Plato never tried to implement this system, because it is not possible to implement. See pages 127 and 138 of Leo Strauss's The City and Man.
>>18903454
You've missed the point. The point of the book is that it is neither possible nor desirable that such a regime be created.
As far as philosopher-statesmen go, there is only Cicero.

>> No.18903545

Alfred the Great? encouraged a new age of learning and translations into old english, wrote a lot of stuff himself (most notably and introduction to the Consolation of Philosophy)

>> No.18903627

>You've missed the point. The point of the book is that it is neither possible nor desirable that such a regime be created.
Yeah I know.

>As far as philosopher-statesmen go, there is only Cicero.
Wanna expand. Don't know much about Cicero.

>>18903545
Interesting choice. Tell me more.

>> No.18903631

the ones I've heard of are
Ahsoka
Frederick the Great
Cyrus the Great

as for whether they qualify by platos definition- I don't really remember Platos definition

>> No.18903638

>>18903631
>Ahsoka
sorry, Ashoka*

>> No.18903655

>>18903345
For me it's Hitler and El chapo

>> No.18903682

The Popes when they had Papal States.

>> No.18903722

Gaddafi

>> No.18903742

>>18903345
Alexander the Great, maybe?

>> No.18903744

>>18903722
blessed post

>> No.18903989

>>18903627
Cicero, according to Strauss, was the statesman who played the greatest role in making philosophy acceptable to Romans. The city is naturally distrustful of philosophy, since it involves questioning the norms upon which its survival is based, and therefore noble rhetoric is necessary to convince it that philosophy will not be harmful or corrosive. Cicero played this role for Rome with his dialogues and tracts. See https://wslamp70.s3.amazonaws.com/leostrauss/s3fs-public/Cicero%20%281959%29_0.pdf

>> No.18903995

>>18903442
Well he's dead wrong. The end justifies the means.

>> No.18903997
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18903997

The Founding Fathers

>> No.18904006

>>18903345
Kublai

>> No.18904018

>>18903443
>ad hominem
not next, back to Aurelious. Opium use is more innocent than masturbation or sex.

>> No.18904033

Salazar

>> No.18904051

>>18903995
What you're saying does not constitute a coherent reply to my post. The point is that no means will ever be able to create such a regime. Even if such means existed, the regime would not be desirable. If you'd like to see why, take a look at the citations from The City and Man I mentioned earlier, and then go and read Aristotle's pithy refutation of it in his Politics.

>> No.18904081

>>18903345
Obviously not cause you know the philosopher king is a Form right? In other words an objective perfection of what a ruler should be, only existing in our highest consciousness, stemming from the heavens to our minds as an idea.

It has no place in reality as praxis, just an ideal. Plato was a retard and thought that through philosophy and educstion you could nurture near-perfection (which is why he established the academy, in order to create philosopher Kings). Plato was a naive child with an all too big brain.

>> No.18904083

>>18903348
rent free

>> No.18904089

>>18904081
You need to be beat up.

>> No.18904099

>>18904083
t. retard cunt walldun

>> No.18904101

>>18903742
>let's conquer a bunch of shit and kill people for no reason except for my own glory
Very wise ruler indeed

>> No.18904120

>>18903345
Julian "the Apostate"
Caesar Augustus
Marcus Aurelius (although this was not in Plato's sense)
The Ashokan King of India was a philosopher and united the entire subcontinent
Charlemagne (more philosophically educated than most realize)
Frederick II Hohenstaufen
Roger II of Sicily

>> No.18904122

>>18904089
Shut up commie. Ari will always be superior to your idealist god

>> No.18904131

>>18903345
Yes, Muhammad, as all Islamic golden-age Faylasufs recognized

>> No.18904214

>>18903989
Very interesting anon thanks for the reply.

>>18904033
Based

>>18904131
>Islamic golden age

>> No.18904263

>>18904131
There are loads of Islamic kings who would qualify in addition to Muhammad. Probably more than European.

>> No.18904323

>>18903513
holy fuck go suck Leo Strauss's dick you faggot. try forming an opinion of your own that isn't what Leo Strauss had for dinner last night to make his cum taste so salty, fuck

>> No.18904467

>>18904323
I think it is important to recognize when another knows better than you. Leo Strauss knew better than all of us.

>> No.18904606

>>18903345
Akhenaten

>> No.18904631

Stalin

>> No.18904654

>>18903345
Friedrich der Große

>> No.18904668

>>18904654
Lot of love for this guy here. Care to red pill an anon that received an anglo education only?

>> No.18904684
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18904684

>>18903997
Ironic. All of them were Kings because none of them was King.

>> No.18904737
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18904737

>>18903345
Khomeini. He overthrew the monarchy in Iran and established an Islamic version of Plato's republic with himself as the absolute authority. Before that, he was a scholar teaching Plato and Islamic neoplatonism (among other things) in seminaries. Needless to say, he was immensely based.

>> No.18904764

Plato's philosopher kings do not exist in a vacuum without the corresponding justly organized society for them to rule. Considering how the hypothetical good city in the Republic was also founded on a lie, it is unlikely it would end up being just at all, even if it had wise people to rule over it. So no, there has not been historical example of a philosopher king.

>> No.18904770

>>18903345
Khosrau I

>> No.18904785

>>18904737
Philosopher? More like Phobosopher kek

>> No.18904791

Plato tried it in Syracuse twice and Aristotle even tried it with Hermias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermias_of_Atarneus

>> No.18904799
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18904799

>>18903345
Yes.

>> No.18904805

me

>> No.18904818

>>18904668
Enlightened absolutist who thoroughly modernized Prussian society, abolished torture, and developed the education system. Read up on him yourself, he's worth knowing about.

>> No.18904840

>>18904785
Khomeini was a moron.
Also, phobosophy is an interesting word. Never heard of it until now.

>> No.18904849

>>18904840
If "philosopher" is a lover of wisdom, then a "phobosopher" is a fearer of wisdom.

>> No.18904853

>>18904840
Morons are unironically fine. It's people of average to subhigh intelligence who are the worst.

>> No.18904879
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18904879

>>18903345
Ashurbanipal

>> No.18904886

>>18904853
Which are you?

>> No.18904988

>>18904818
Cheers mate will do that.

>>18904737
Now that is what I call based.

>>18904879
Literally who?

>>18904853
This

>> No.18905046

>>18904668
Wrote Anti-Machiavelli, basic thesis is that the subjects look at their overlord being amoral douchebags and start emulating them in turn, thus society collapses into spaghetti like Italy spent all its time before Hapsburgs brought some unity.
So if the overlord wants his society to possess political virtue, if only for his own benefit, he must possess this virtue himself expressing it in rulings and behaviour.
Frederick tried to and his generally remembered as a beloved and successful ruler of Prussia, who made it into a European power, even though he was a literal assfucker.

>> No.18905101

>>18905046
Very based. Like Nietzsche said, the overman is Caesar with the soul of Christ. If you are a strong ruler with great heart, people will follow you.

>> No.18905111

>>18905046
>>18905101
Any recommended books on this Frederick fella?

>> No.18905140

>>18904988
At the time of Ashurbanipal's reign, the Neo-Assyrian Empire was the largest empire that the world had ever seen and its capital, Nineveh, was probably the largest city on the planet. Selected as heir by his father in 672 BC despite not being the eldest son, Ashurbanipal ascended to the throne in 669 BC jointly with his elder brother Shamash-shum-ukin, who became king of Babylon. Much of the early years of Ashurbanipal's reign was spent fighting rebellions in Egypt, which had been conquered by his father. Ashurbanipal is most famous for the construction of the Library of Ashurbanipal, the first systematically organized library in the world. The king himself considered the library, a collection of over 30,000 clay tablets with texts of several genres, including religious documents, handbooks, and traditional Mesopotamian stories, as his greatest achievement. Ashurbanipal's library is the primary reason why texts such as the Epic of Gilgamesh managed to survive to the present day.

>> No.18905156
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18905156

>>18903345

>> No.18905181

>>18905156
Can't believe it took this long.

>>18905140
Fuck what a chad!

>> No.18905183
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18905183

>>18903345
Ayatollah Khomeini. The guardianship of the jurists (Velâyat-e Faqih) is rule by philosopher-kings. The philosophy of Iranian sufism, the transcendent theosophy (al-hikmat al-muta’āliyah) of Mulla Sadra, is also Neoplatonic.

>> No.18905203
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18905203

>>18905156
Yes he really showed who was the real king when confronted with Roman power or presented to Herod's court.

>> No.18905227

>>18905183
*Philosophy of Iranian Shiism. Mulla Sadra is mainstream in Iran, the current head of the Mulla Sadra society is the Supreme Leader's brother.
http://www.mullasadra.org/new_site/english/About%20Us/President.htm

>> No.18905358

>>18904886
what do you think?

>> No.18905449

>>18903442
Basado

>> No.18905476
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18905476

>>18903345
Pedro Aguirre Cerda in Chile. He had very interesting point of view about politics, law and well, he was a philosophy teacher. Also during his presidence, the economy got a litle improved after the 1929 crsis. All the former leaders were useless pieces of shit.

>> No.18905494
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18905494

H I T L E R
I
T
L
E
R
Soldier, Painter, Writer, Political Leader.

>> No.18905555

>>18903545
If he counts then Alfonso X the Wise was too. He pretty much did the same thing but for Spanish (he also encouraged poetry in old Portuguese)

>> No.18905593

>>18905476
>Also during his presidence, the economy got a litle improved after the 1929 crsis.
Most Latin American leaders –at least from the more prominent countries– were able to do this. Not that much of an achievment in itself desu.

>> No.18905717

>>18905140
>>18905181
Ashurbanipal described the reasoning behind collecting such a vast library with these words:

I, Ashurbanipal, king of the universe, on whom the gods have bestowed intelligence, who has acquired penetrating acumen for the most recondite details of scholarly erudition (none of my predecessors having any comprehension of such matters), I have placed these tablets for the future in the library at Nineveh for my life and for the well-being of my soul, to sustain the foundations of my royal name.

>> No.18905732
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18905732

>>18905717
Collecting books and killing lions.

>> No.18905957

>>18905717
>>18905732
Giga chad energy. Why can't we have Kino leaders like this?

>> No.18905988
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18905988

>>18903345
He's a Sorbonne grad and a disciple of Paul Ricœur, and a complete asshole.

>> No.18905995

>>18905988
He is a total twat anon, if he were not the top guy he would be a sycophant to the top guy.

>> No.18906142

Plato was probably the best one lol

>> No.18906263
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18906263

>read thread
>not a single mention of Dom Pedro II
Oh boy, here we go:
>Pedro II spent his days studying, with only two hours set aside for amusements.Intelligent, he was able to acquire knowledge with great ease
>the Emperor established a reputation as a vigorous sponsor of learning, culture, and the sciences, and he won the respect and admiration of people such as Charles Darwin, Victor Hugo, and Friedrich Nietzsche, and was a friend to Richard Wagner, Louis Pasteur, and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, among others
>A passion for linguistics prompted him throughout his life to study new languages, and he was able to speak and write not only Portuguese but also Latin, French, German, English, Italian, Spanish, Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, Sanskrit, Chinese, Occitan and Tupi.
>"I was born to devote myself to culture and sciences," the Emperor remarked in his private journal during 1862. He had always been eager to learn and found in books a refuge from the demands of his position. Subjects which interested Pedro II were wide-ranging, including anthropology, history, geography, geology, medicine, law, religious studies, philosophy, painting, sculpture, theater, music, chemistry, physics, astronomy, poetry and technology, among others
>Pedro II became a member of the Royal Society, the Russian Academy of Sciences, The Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium and the American Geographical Society. In 1875, he was elected to the French Academy of Sciences, an honor previously granted to only two other heads of state: Peter the Great and Napoleon Bonaparte.

>> No.18906853

>>18903442
Jew

>> No.18906876

>>18904101
Alexander is literally Prometheus

>> No.18906991

>>18905593
yeah, you are right, but he was the ONLY who did something for his people, all the others are just a bunch of fucking thieves.

>> No.18907035

yes, me

>> No.18907045

>>18903458
That's based on contested sources. Many scholars believe it to have been faked.

>> No.18907051

>>18903345
The Bolsheviks were basically this.

>> No.18907340

>>18905203
Jesus still has followers and Pilate and Herod dont.

>> No.18907362

>>18903513
Leo Strauss is a handrubbing, greedy, civilization destroying jew just like you.
Fuck you and fuck Leo Strauss.
Don't listen to this kike he just wants to prevent everything which could lead to the creation of a better society.

>> No.18907397

>>18906263
Is he the reason Brazil is such a great country today?

>> No.18907436
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18907436

>>18905140
holy based

>> No.18907470

>>18903345
>
No leader has ever been truely great or else the they wouldn't have allowed to world to arrive at what it is today.

>> No.18907484

>>18903442
>removing tyrants from power... makes you a tyrant
whoa

I can't wait until the 20th century dies with this shit critique

>> No.18907529
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18907529

>>18905717
>I, Ashurbanipal, king of the universe, on whom the gods have bestowed intelligence, who has acquired penetrating acumen for the most recondite details of scholarly erudition (none of my predecessors having any comprehension of such matters), I have placed these tablets for the future in the library at Nineveh for my life and for the well-being of my soul, to sustain the foundations of my royal name.

>> No.18907560

>>18903345
Leto II but you're about 40,000 years too early sorry anon

>> No.18907691

>>18903442
A literal joo who advocated a psyop to coop non-liberal thought, of course he fears a platonic republic, his kind wouldn’t be able to operate within it

>> No.18907730

>>18904879
Learned about him from Civ5 lol