/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18892510]

How do you refute him?

[Anonymous No.18892514]

Being mean makes me feel bad

[Anonymous No.18892515]

Why would I refute a shitpost?

[Anonymous No.18892523]

also why do people insist on using the meme drawing when we have not one, but two pictures of Stirner?

[Anonymous No.18892551]

>>18892510
a slight change in epistemology or ontology.

[Anonymous No.18892556]

I refute him by doing what I want

>>18892523
I haver never seen this for some reason

[Anonymous No.18892557]

>>18892510
a spook is as spook and its cringe to get your philosophy from a cartoon

[Anonymous No.18892563]

>>18892523
Terrible meme

[Anonymous No.18892569]

>>18892523
Because that's Samuel Beckett.

[Anonymous No.18892575]

>>18892523
Shit he looks like that? I thought he was some square jaw chad, that is a misleading artist rendition.

[Anonymous No.18892636]

>>18892510
>everything is a spook
>everything is nothing to me
>i am a creative nothing
What is there to refute? It's like refuting radical skepticism, there's nothing to argue against. No conversation is possible.

[Anonymous No.18892689]

>>18892636
>No conversation is possible.
Yup, he was the 19th century's UG Krishnamurti.

[Anonymous No.18892718]

>>18892510
Matter is a spook

[Anonymous No.18892735]

>>18892569
This
>>18892523
lmao at this faggot rn
>>18892556
>>18892575
It's a young Samuel Beckett, don't fall for the meme like this guy apparently has.

[Anonymous No.18892792]

>>18892510
By killing whoever worships him.

[Anonymous No.18892798]

If you try to refute him, you already lost

[Anonymous No.18892844]

what if it is in my interest to be altruistic?

[Anonymous No.18892850]

>>18892510
Refutations are a spook

[Anonymous No.18892878]

>>18892510
Spooks are a spook

[Anonymous No.18892880]

This nigga named Big Forehead

[Anonymous No.18893361]

>>18892510
Refute what? It's a spiritual claim. It's the same thing as arguing with transvestites, which by the way are the only people who post about this guy on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.18893379]

>>18892510
You don't.

[Anonymous No.18893674]

>>18892514
>t. Max Stirner

[Anonymous No.18893689]

>>18892510
“The world says: "You have needs -- satisfy them. You have as much right as the rich and the mighty. Don't hesitate to satisfy your needs; indeed, expand your needs and demand more." This is the worldly doctrine of today. And they believe that this is freedom. The result for the rich is isolation and suicide, for the poor, envy and murder.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

[Anonymous No.18893938]

>>18892510
The physiognomy of his fan base refutes him

[Anonymous No.18894071]

>>18893361
>times
>semite
Holy shit

[Anonymous No.18894270]

>>18892510
Simply by adhering to any other belief system and getting some benefit from it.

[Anonymous No.18894272]

>>18892514
delete this

[Anonymous No.18894278]

>>18892514
There are some people who enjoy that and feel it would be in their best interest to act that way however

[Anonymous No.18894346]

>>18892510
I mean, he doesn't really argue logically for his beliefs—his main book is literally a shitpost—so, there's not really much to even refute. Psychological egoism is unfalsifiable, ad hoc, and basically empty of theoretical virtues. It's hard to see what you would even find attractive about it, besides its being a license for immorality. I guess the easiest way to refute him would just be to run a basic phenomenal conservatism argument for moral realism, and then the burden would be on Stirner to offer a defeater for moral realism.

[Anonymous No.18895430]

>>18892510
By growing up.

[Anonymous No.18895493]

>>18892510
_German Ideology_

[Anonymous No.18895580]

>>18894278
Okay but being mean makes me feel bad

[Anonymous No.18895584]

>>18895430
Growing up is realizing Stirner was right

[Anonymous No.18895750]

found this on google

https://www.reddit.com/r/fullegoism/comments/hmftzz/im_now_a_grimy_max_stirner/

i thought it was interesting

[Anonymous No.18895901]

>>18892510
>How do you refute him?
You don't have to, his philosophy would necessarily dictate you are completely in the right to disagree with everything he says.

[Anonymous No.18895908]

>>18894346
God I want to beat the shit out of this little faggot who actually refers to literature as "shitposts" like some ADHD-riddled internet addict teenager.

[Anonymous No.18895941]

>>18892514
It's a spook

[Anonymous No.18897155]

I do what I want, and I want to read the Bible

[Anonymous No.18897267]

>>18892510

>jew

[Anonymous No.18898084]

>>18895584
No it isn't.

[Anonymous No.18898287]

>>18895750
>antifascist action

lol, even "the egoists" are dupes for the establishment, what a joke

[Anonymous No.18898294]

>>18898287
>It can't be in peoples' self interest to serve the labor aristocracy or capitalism
Read Rand, retard.

[Anonymous No.18898312]

>>18898294
>It can't be in peoples' self interest to serve the labor aristocracy or capitalism

what if the people´s self interest in supporting the government contradicts the core of their ideology?

you can see the answer in that subreddit, what a bunch of cowards and hypocrites

[Anonymous No.18898337]

>>18898312
Why it would contradict their philosophy? You can an egotistical person and support capitalism. Stirner supported fucking capitalism over socialism. Nor did he support revolution. The man was about serving himself - his personal interest are put above your pious manichaeism and fetishization of the working class. The man wants to be lazy, and how more lazy can you get by letting the status quo continue if it doesn't harm you? You're be a dumbass to support anything else.

[Anonymous No.18898340]

>>18892510
By living.

[Anonymous No.18898359]

>>18898337
>You can an egotistical person

if you´re egotistical, why the fuck do you care if there are fascists running around your country? would you care? also supporting the status quo =/= egoistic person

[Anonymous No.18898387]

>>18898359
Not him, but it would only matter to care if/when it affects you. Supporting the status-quo isn't inherently egoistic, but if it benefits you, then it should be supported.

Is this too hard to understand?

[Anonymous No.18898400]

>>18898387
i understand, funnily enough their "league of egoists" it´s just another reddit circlejerk that spouses pro-establishment ideas, nothing rebellious about that

[Anonymous No.18898420]

>>18898400
Egoism doesn't have to be "rebellious" you fucking retard. Its about opportunism, not row row fight the power like a fucking populist dupe.

[Anonymous No.18898431]

>>18898420
i´m pretty sure 100% who joined that subreddit doesn´t benefit from what the establishment does (unless he/she is a POC nigga of course)

[Anonymous No.18898441]

>>18898431
>uh bro you just gotta be a revolutionary - just like me and die for my abstract cause! you just gotta - how dare you be an establishment lackie and not support me, revolutionary pHD
Get the fuck out of here with your retardation.

[Anonymous No.18898457]

>>18898431
How exactly? Biden gave them rent, healthcare, and food stamp subsidies under the American rescue plan that was passed and a check. There's another bill in the works to give them even more handouts, and you're telling me should instead support a fucking retard like you can't even pay their bills? Are you stupid nigga?

[Anonymous No.18898466]

what is the ego dependant on?

[Anonymous No.18898470]

>>18898441
i never claimed to be one lol, it´s infuriating seeing normies that want to feel rebellious while being the first bootlicker whenever they consumes the news media or learn whatever propaganda that comes from the academia

>>18898457
dude, if you´re dependant of the government to give you money and eat, i´m sorry to tell you but you´re just basically a slave for the state

[Anonymous No.18898471]

>>18898466
Your brain

[Anonymous No.18898497]

>>18898470
Its only infuriating because you're an autistic larper like them. You wouldn't be on 4chan crying about the establishment; you'd be actually treating politics seriously and organizing for causes. This is just a hobby for you because you're a part of the same labor aristocracy as them.
>ude, if you´re dependant of the government to give you money and eat, i´m sorry to tell you but you´re just basically a slave for the state
Why would they care if they benefit materially from it? Do you really think the average person gives a damn about anarchist, clerico-liberalism? No, most people don't care about your abstract moral ideas - they care about their immediate needs. There always be people like this, and they will make up the majority of people. Nobody has the time to care about your idealistic standards on what humans ought to be.

[Anonymous No.18898521]

>>18898470
They can do whatever the fuck they want. Its their life, not yours, who the fuck are you tell them how to live with your self righteous attitude?

[Anonymous No.18898536]

>>18898497
>Its only infuriating because you're an autistic larper like them. You wouldn't be on 4chan crying about the establishment; you'd be actually treating politics seriously and organizing for causes. This is just a hobby for you because you're a part of the same labor aristocracy as them.

i´m not an "egoist" to begin with, i mean, stirner ideas are interesting but i don´t take it as gospel

>>18898521
>nooooo you cant judge people that isn´t fair!!!!!

lmao

[Anonymous No.18898542]

>>18898470
The people who the most critical of the state are just envious they don't the same power to force people to live the way they want to live. As if you'd be any different if you held power. There is no incentive for people to change masters when the current one works out well.

[Anonymous No.18898578]

>>18898542
>The people who the most critical of the state are just envious they don't the same power to force people to live the way they want to live

that would apply to me if i was an liberal/conservative/fascist/etc.. but that isn´t the case, i´m critical of the establishment because their ideology is narcissistic, self-destructive, puritan, and nigger worshipping, and i don´t like any of that

i´m not in the search of power either

[Anonymous No.18898580]

>>18898536
No one is saying you can't judge. You act as if people are suppose to care how you feel about them. What the fuck are you do about it? Cry? You can't do anything about it; you're just virtue signaling like every idealistic cuck under the age of 18. Get a life.
>i´m not an "egoist" to begin with
You are an "egoist" though - you are a selfish person, are you not? Stirner's point is that everyone is selfish, and everyone is put on this Earthto serve to their interests the best way they can until death dissolves them into nothingness. Of course, you have a self interest against the establishment, and your opponents have a self interest to uphold it based on their circumstances. In this world, to Saint Max, it is dog eat dog. If you have a problem in this world - stop bitching and do something about it or just face the music. Its really that simple.

[Anonymous No.18898611]

>>18898578
>their ideology is narcissistic, self-destructive, puritan, and nigger worshipping, and i don´t like any of that
Because you're a moralizing idealistic cuck jealous of your lack of power, and inability to be an effective member of the public who can have their interest served. If they want to be all those things - they can be. Its their life. Your political labels are meaningless aesthetics and spooky abstractions. Nobody has to give a fuck what you call yourself - its what you do that matters.
>i´m not in the search of power either
Yes you are. Only nobodies are modest.

[Anonymous No.18898645]

>>18898580
>You are an "egoist" though - you are a selfish person, are you not? Stirner's point is that everyone is selfish, and everyone is put on this Earthto serve to their interests the best way they can until death dissolves them into nothingness.

i meant that i wasn´t a follower of stirner, but sure, i don´t have any problem with the natural law of the will to power

>>18898611
i don´t care if there are people following the ideology of establishment, maybe i had the notion that someone who was inspired by Stirner would be more self-aware about his position in the world and even say fuck you to the system


>Yes you are. Only nobodies are modest.

do you think wanting to be an artist is a search for power?

[Anonymous No.18898647]

>>18898471
and your brain is a box that takes external sensory data and internalizses it to stabilize the human body system.

so if the ego is dependant on the mind which is our filter for the environment.
take away that which the ego feeds on and it will starve.
re:all those horrible isolation experiments
seems like the environment has more power over the ego than the ego has over the environment.

[Anonymous No.18898701]

>>18898645
>i meant that i wasn´t a follower of stirner, but sure, i don´t have any problem with the natural law of the will to power
The fuck are you talking about? Stirner doesn't have followers, you retard. He wasn't a philosopher, nor was he interested in creating a movement. He just wrote a book the woman he loved. What is up with you retards who create these false idols? Can not you stop being a retard who worships great men for second in your life - is it really so hard for you to think for yourself? If you could, you'd stop being an idealistic retard. Smart people use whatever ideology they have to further their own interests. Followers are dupes and pious atheists.
>i don´t care
Don't care but you spend all your time seething about it - sure.
>e i had the notion that someone who was inspired by Stirner would be more self-aware about his position
Lmao, you actually believe this idealistic crap? What a fucking retard.
>do you think wanting to be an artist is a search for power?
Artists don't have political interests - are you retarded? Clearly, that's false, because you wouldn't be here screeching so much about muh establishment. People can't multiple interests now?
>>18898647
>"Does “the unique” demolish the thought process here? No! He lets it quietly run its course; but also doesn’t let it demolish his uniqueness, and he laughs at criticism as soon as it tries to force him to help solve a problem that he has not posed, laughing at your “earth-shattering thoughts.”"
Just pointless shit nobody has to care about

[Anonymous No.18898740]

>>18898701
>The fuck are you talking about? Stirner doesn't have followers, you retard. He wasn't a philosopher, nor was he interested in creating a movement. He just wrote a book the woman he loved. What is up with you retards who create these false idols? Can not you stop being a retard who worships great men for second in your life - is it really so hard for you to think for yourself? If you could, you'd stop being an idealistic retard. Smart people use whatever ideology they have to further their own interests. Followers are dupes and pious atheists.

i stated earlier that i wasn´t a follower of stirner, how dense can you be?

>Artists don't have political interests - are you retarded?

lmao, i told you and you don´t to believe it because it destroyed your pre-conceived notion about me, i´m speaking to a retard now, stay butthurted

[Anonymous No.18898753]

>>18898701
so if you dont care that the your ego is at the whims of the environment.
sounds like its a weak cowardly ego hiding behind all sorts of puffery.
how easy it must be to manipulate and gaslight an egoist.
may not troll them trough insults.
but if i were to dig a trench on his home his ego would have no choice to follow it to its lowest place like running water.

[Anonymous No.18898813]

>>18898740
Why do you care so much about "Stirner" and his so called "followers"- since when do you liking a philosopher means you follow them or live how they idealistically thought they would be - are you stupid?
>lmao, i told you
No, you're just an idiot lying on the internet to protect your fragile pride. Get over yourself, kid.
>>18898753
The philosopher is sophist who can twist words, and meaning, however they wish for any purpose they desire. Believe what you want to believe; your dialectical search for truth is a worthless endeavor you care too much about, you wannabe Socrates. Make up your own mind about it instead of seeking validity from me.

[Anonymous No.18898840]

>>18898813
>Why do you care so much about "Stirner" and his so called "followers

i clicked the link, i saw the subreddit, and i made a comment in this thread, is this your conception of caring too much?

>No, you're just an idiot lying on the internet to protect your fragile pride. Get over yourself, kid.

i want to be an artist and i´m not lying, i think you´re just projecting at this point

[Anonymous No.18898870]

>>18898813
i am not suprised or spooked in the slightest that an egoist thinks im trying to get validation from them.
when the unknown world required explorers to travel and bear witness to things not seen by human eyes.
so i try to do the same in cultivation of perspectives.
you only care about yourself and nothing else matters, good. i guess we can move on now.
or rather ill just leave you in your dark room with the door closed.
i'll be sure to knock next time i visit.

[Anonymous No.18899314]

>>18892514
Greetings fellow egoist.

[Anonymous No.18899338]

>>18892636
>No conversation is possible.
Does that mean he's wrong? No conversation with God is possible either. Maybe Stirner is the endgame of theology, and therefore right about everything?

[Anonymous No.18899364]

>>18893361
Any attempt to express truth is ultimately spiritual. That includes what you're doing right now. Grats on coming out of the closet.

[Anonymous No.18899396]

>>18899338
>No conversation with God is possible either
Wrong, read the Bible

[Anonymous No.18899412]

>>18899338
Belief is foundational to human rationality, so even if everything is a spook it's improbable to separate any human, including Stirner, from spookdom. Also if egoism is the default behavior of all humanity then it ultimately can't serve as a basis for hanging human behavior in any way. What people care about in the end isn't philosophy, but ideology.

[Anonymous No.18900734]

>>18895908
lmao the seethe

[Anonymous No.18900761]

>>18899412
Stirner calls Hegel, and all philosophers, sophists. To Sancho, philosophy is just a means to an end. Ultimately, the underlying system doesn't matter - its how you use it to your advantage. The problem is philosophers are too high on their own farts to understand their sophists in denial. You would think is the amount different splits in anarchism, Marxism, religion, and even within philosophical theories of virtue people would get the memo. No, they just waste even more of our time with their stupidity.

[Anonymous No.18900863]

>>18893938
>physiognomy
spook

[Anonymous No.18900870]

>>18894346
>easiest way to refute him would just be to run a basic phenomenal conservatism argument for moral realism
i just fucking know that you are a massive pseud because there is no moral realist arguments that can disprove him and i know that you know that and you are just afraid

[Anonymous No.18900943]

>>18900870
Have you actually read anything on moral realism?

[Anonymous No.18900989]

>>18892510
Stirner forgot that his “ghosts” were real in others eyes and therefore in inverse relation, real for himself.

His philosophy also doesn’t stop a transcendental interpretation or non-dual explanation of our “egos”.

His main point is still sound though. Imo he was the first philosopher to really interface with the idea of “social construction” like we find the po-mos doing in the next century. He’s the first (in the modern western tradition) philosopher to believe in nothing

>>18892510
Becket is to Joyce as Stirner was to Hegel