/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18891320]

I can't help but imagine Marcus Aurelius saying the same words when I see these videos, stoicism is the philosophy of slimy billionaires who want to look like hard working men to the public eye

[Anonymous No.18891358]

>Alpha Leaders
How the fuck these people can take this shire seriously?

[Anonymous No.18891375]

>>18891320
>Rich person lies
I'll believe it!
And even if he did, so what? My 100 hours won't get me anywhere without opportunity. I'd just be a cuck working for one of these people. I know plenty of workaholics who are literally killing themselves for a "career" that is nothing but a carrot on a stick.

[Anonymous No.18891378]

Except Marcus Aurelius was a military commander with a martial upbringing. He spent most of his life in severe austerity on campaign in a tent and on the battlefield.

[Anonymous No.18891399]

>>18891378
I wouldn't characterize MA as martial. He was much more interested in philosophy and learning. Reading about him it seems as if he actually disliked his military duty. Not that he would ever shirk responsibility. Gk

[Anonymous No.18891464]

>>18891378
>he spent most of his life on opium
Ftfy

[Anonymous No.18891480]

is Elon Musk known to be a stoic or something? I don't get this thread

[Anonymous No.18891490]

>>18891480
He's known to be a retard, and so are his fans.

[Anonymous No.18891492]

>>18891320
must be tough to put yourself out there knowing you have nothing but those diamond mines to fall back on

[Anonymous No.18891519]

>>18891375
You're a cuck that will never get anywhere in life because you're too pussy to put in some effort.

[Anonymous No.18891530]

>>18891519
how will cucks ever recover?

they know they are not willing to put it in, or only wirk harder instead of smarter, then cry if they are not bill gates by working 60 hours a week at a barista instead of trying to actually find a productive route. They want to bring all to the level of they in their mediocrety.

[Anonymous No.18891571]

I am alive for 168 hours a week, that's quite enough work

[Anonymous No.18891585]

>>18891320
For big industry leaders, "work" includes working lunches, dinners, and networking. In any case I don't think stoicism encourages over-indulgence in anything, including the generation of money.

[Anonymous No.18891852]

>>18891519
>you're either putting in 100 hrs of work or none
Wowee. Are both your parents lawyers, or are you still studying full time?
>>18891530
>they know they are not willing to put it in, or only wirk harder instead of smarter, then cry if they are not bill gates by working 60 hours a week at a barista instead of trying to actually find a productive route. They want to bring all to the level of they in their mediocrety.
Who are you talking about? Are you the top janitor at your company 10 years in a row? I heard mr. Goldberg will give you a raise in a few years.
>>18891585
Ye, I'm really not seeing the connection between this sterile accumulation of money and stoicism.

[Anonymous No.18891883]

>>18891378
That isn't even close to the case.

[Anonymous No.18891919]

>>18891852
>both your parents lawyers
> I heard mr. Goldberg will give you a raise in a few years.
the eternal wingding of those resigned to a self fulfilling prophecy. go out there and make contacts with those in the field you want to persue. destiny is out there, you just need to seize it. or accept that you yourself are not willing to do that.

[Anonymous No.18891927]

>>18891919
#trillionaire #grindset

shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.18891935]

lit that explores this obsession with work and the implication that idle time is somehow shameful?

[Anonymous No.18891953]

>>18891519
>>18891530
>>18891919
I don't get it. Since us losers are lazy and don't work hard, we'll get weeded out. Wouldn't that give you more opportunities? Shouldn't you happy? Why are you getting mad at us?

[Anonymous No.18891966]

>>18891320
>100 hour work week

Which is fine if you enjoy what you do or own a business. The rest should be working 24-40 hours a week. Don't let the kikes trick you into believing that working non stop is the proper way to live. People need time to themselves to purse hobbies and interact with people outside of work.

[Anonymous No.18891972]

>>18891919
God you're so fucking retarded. You just have to believe I'm some retard working a minimum wage for your entire world view to function. No, motherfucker.
>went through school while working, because my parents weren't rich
>worked hard at the beginning of my career
>got a stable job, and decent hobbies + friends
>still think the grind was BS, seeing retarded high school friends get put into high positions by their parents
>see gifted kids get bogged down by le actual grind (aka working minimum wage factory jobs to survive)
>a house is basically 40+ months of my wage (which is around 2x the average wage in my area)
Fuck you. You're too sheltered to see how the world works, or you're coping.

[Anonymous No.18891975]

Work 20 hours a week. Spend all my time reading and fucking, sometimes at the same time.

[Anonymous No.18891983]

the only reason to work hard and long hours is if you retain the profits of your labor rather than having it all leeched away by some (((owner))) above you

[Anonymous No.18891989]

>>18891975
>Work 20 hours a week. Spend all my time fucking
Bas-
>and reading
Almost had me. Nice LARP.

[Anonymous No.18891991]

>>18891966
>>18891585
These.
Working for yourself and working as an employee are so different they really should be different words to make the distinction clear. You’ll quickly burn out doing 100 hour weeks as an employee doing tasks.

[Anonymous No.18891993]

>>18891983
>the only reason to work hard and long hours is if you retain the profits of your labor rather than having it all leeched away by some (((owner))) above you
Sounds like communism to me, don't think that'll fly in this thread.

[Anonymous No.18892000]

>>18891966
Don't get why they keep pushing to increase work hours back to the start of the industrial revolution, most of the modern economy is based around people consuming mindless entertainment, cheap plastic toys and going to eat away. If most of the people will work 12-16 hours a day again with no weekends who will even consume to make this economy work?

[Anonymous No.18892012]

>>18892000
>If most of the people will work 12-16 hours a day again with no weekends who will even consume to make this economy work?
That'll get you tired easily and you'll seek for more instant pleasure, therefore more consumption.

[Anonymous No.18892019]

>>18892012
With what time? you will barely have time to transport home and sleep

[Anonymous No.18892031]

>>18891993
My understanding of communism is not that it allows you to retain the profits of your labor

[Anonymous No.18892035]

>>18891883
Point out which part is incorrect because of all it is historical fact.

[Anonymous No.18892039]

>>18891399
He was a military commander and had martial training since he was a child. Whether or not he liked his duty is irrelevant. He was actually there on the battlefield.

[Anonymous No.18892084]

>>18891927
>>18891953
>>18891972
Look how viscerally they react when I tell them the simple truth. Stop being a barista. try to get a job in your feild. My dads a public school teacher.

im sorry to break your nihilistic fantasy fellas. I know its fun to jerk off to tragedy. look at your available resources, and maximize their use. your defeatism chains you.

[Anonymous No.18892089]

>>18891320
There's a difference between some rich kid and Marcus Aurelius, OP. Aurelius wasn't just a dumb son.

[Anonymous No.18892103]

>>18891320
Why are people so shocked by this? Yeah, I'd never do it but there are some people who do work like this. My dad is a landlord, and owns a store. He unironically works up to 80 hours a week, probably even more. You guys are so salty that the system does work well like it or not. It's still flawed no doubt but it really does reward you for the effort and time you put in.

[Anonymous No.18892110]

>>18892103
>He unironically works up to 80 hours a week, probably even more.
And why isn't he as rich as Elon Musk?

[Anonymous No.18892116]

>>18892110
Because elon Musk is younger and has been able to profit from the tech boom of our times which is far more profitable than the old fashioned way.

[Anonymous No.18892120]

>>18892103
>>18892116
sounds like a cope

[Anonymous No.18892125]

>>18892103
>My dad is a landlord
How does it make you feel that your dad is a thief? He doesn’t produce anything of worth, he just collects rent because he owns a piece of land and sells the product someone else made.
Of course he’ll think the system is great, he gets to essentially sit on his ass and still benefit.
>works 80 hours a week
Going around collecting rent and working his register barely qualify as work. You belong to the labor aristocracy.

[Anonymous No.18892131]

>>18892103
Your dad works that much because otherwise he'd get bored and restless.
A system which requires you to give that much of yourself to have a decent life just isn't a good system.

[Anonymous No.18892145]

>>18892084
Again, explain why that bothers you?>>18891953

[Anonymous No.18892149]

>>18892084
>says something retarded
>haha look at people calling me a retard, i must be right

[Anonymous No.18892151]

>>18892145
i never said it bothered me.

[Anonymous No.18892158]

>>18892116
So you are saying that there is a factor such as opportunity influencing the returns from this "hard work", yes?
Would you also agree that there are many people who wouldn't change a thing with "hard work" because they have no opportunity? How do you have opportunity if you work to pay rent and you have no time to acquire new skills? Of course the people who are at the top are "hard working" although I imagine this isn't really the case for everyone, I mean Paris Hilton is rich as fuck and she doesn't do shit except sucking cock and she's dumb as fuck, but I will obviously concede that someone like Elon Musk is hard working. How does that "inspire" someone who's stuck in a dead end job? If you want to agree with this narrative you have to completely deny the existence of opportunity and that's a gigantically retarded way to be wrong.

[Anonymous No.18892163]

>>18892125
No. He works from open until close pretty much every single day, and does every job in the store, and literally works the hardest because he went in with no real partner. It isn't a franchise or something that big to where it's automated. Also if you can't buy a home, you rent, simple as.

[Anonymous No.18892168]

>>18891320
>by their fruits, ye shall know them
This faggot is a fraud

[Anonymous No.18892173]

>>18892163
>He works from open until close pretty much every single day
So do many shop owners who are struggling to get by.

[Anonymous No.18892179]

>>18892103
>ye my dad benefits from the system as a parasite
>the system is really good

[Anonymous No.18892195]

>>18892158
Of course there is. Opportunity is all around us though. Of course less of it if you don't live in a developed nation.

[Anonymous No.18892204]

>>18892151
Then, why are you so angry? Shouldn't you be happy that us lazy fucks won't make it, thereby giving you more opportunities?

[Anonymous No.18892205]

>>18891320
i do something similar
i ate 16 apples in a row when mom stopped buying junk food to prevent my "binge eating"

[Anonymous No.18892206]

>>18892173
He's a workaholic though. Because he has had to work like that most of his life, was broke for a lot of it. Btw I don't think the system is perfect by any means, I have read a little bit of theory, critique is valid.

[Anonymous No.18892210]

>>18891320
what a stupid comment, who or why would how long you work matter all that much? a fucking mule works hard and long. its about working efficiently, not hard and long. your coefficient of gain should not and does not equate directly with the amount of exertion, but how that exertion is applied.

[Anonymous No.18892211]

>>18892163
This just tells me he’s a cheapstake that doesn’t want to hire any employees because he’d have to pay them wages.
>Also, if you can't buy a home, you rent, simple as.
Tell that to the people who have to forfeit 50% of their salary on rent in the big city.
As a member of the labor aristocracy you enjoy a privileged position because you’ll likely inherit your dad’s store and property. Your tune would be different if you had to do things from scratch.

[Anonymous No.18892213]

>>18892206
no offense lad but u sound like a bit of knob

[Anonymous No.18892216]

>>18892213
Why?

[Anonymous No.18892219]

Imagine thinking you're a better person for spending your days finding new ways to hate anybody who's less successful than you are

spend some of that $$$ you're making on therapy

[Anonymous No.18892220]

>>18892204
I dont think i said I was angry, just that they seem like defeatists to me. thats not anger, thats an observation. if anything, thats sadness. or pity.

[Anonymous No.18892229]

>>18892211
It's genuinely very difficult to find manager level people. Also everyone is paid above the minimum. Not only that but the employee has leverage on the employer because it's not their business and they don't need to take on any risk or danger. So they'll skip out on work often not really needing to worry about consequences, they just find another job or ask to come back.

[Anonymous No.18892251]

>>18892206
>He's a workaholic though.
Have you written >>18892195
>Of course there is. Opportunity is all around us though. Of course less of it if you don't live in a developed nation.
If this is true then what do you think about Karoshi, the Japanese salarymen who literally die of overwork? They were obviously obedient to the "system" but they never made a career. They do not die rich. They just work themselves to death. Many people are workaholics but are not successful. I know a few personally and one will probably die soon because he's neglecting his own health to "work harder", expecting to be rewarded by the system. Not that he would be able to start a business because, perhaps you know this already, it's very difficult to start a business with a salaryman's savings. It's almost as if how much money you start with matters a lot more than how hard you work. And what is "hard work" anyway? I know graduates from prestigious schools who are functionally illiterate. What was their "work" like? Sure the curriculum hours are there and they probably put in the "hours" but where are their skills? I never see competency and merit as opposed to skill and talent, I always see this notion of "hard work" and it's every billionaire's favorite lie exactly because any retard can "work hard". Why do they never talk about acquiring skills? Why do they never talk about the competences they earned? Nope, they only talk about time. "I worked 100 hours a week". And? The sweatshop worked in Bangladesh works that much. Where's his career?

[Anonymous No.18892257]

>>18892220
Who was a defeatist, though? They were just pointing out objective flaws within the system, and you just said
>lol just work harder
as some catch-all prescription for it? I even specifically said I worked hard for most of my life >>18891972
, and you just ignored it, to keep pretending I'm some barista. And you did that because you know, that once you admit that semi-successful and hard working individuals don't share your views, your entire argument just falls on its head. But then again, your entirely individualistic approach to life should stay individualistic, and you'd let your results speak for you. In which case you'd spend 0% of your time on here.

[Anonymous No.18892259]

>>18892219
Rich people did not earn their wealth.
Silicon Valley companies get subsidies from the government, Bezos is a trillionaire even though Amazon didn’t turn a profit until the pandemic hit.
He makes his workers work during Covid and doesn’t give them hazard pay. Those workers don’t earn even 1/10 of what he makes even thought they are the one risking their lives doing all the work.

[Anonymous No.18892267]

>>18892251
>the Japanese salarymen who literally die of overwork? They were obviously obedient to the "system" but they never made a career.
anon, you can work yourself to death by beating a nail with a hammer nonstop. thats not finding opportunity, thats doing the same thing over and over.

[Anonymous No.18892278]

>>18892257
>>lol just work harder
i did not say this at all, stop projecting. every comment i posted was about working more efficiently, doing different things. finding an angle. not once did i say to just add 7 hours to your shift.

[Anonymous No.18892280]

>>18892259
>Bezos is a trillionaire even though Amazon didn’t turn a profit until the pandemic hit
He reinvested the profits to expand the business, they could have been profitable at any point if he chose to.

[Anonymous No.18892282]

>>18891320
Hard work is a virtue and I don't deny that Musk, Bezos, etc. worked hard for their money. But I have to say, people work much harder than they did and still languish in low-paying jobs and the like. You don't reach Elon status without good circumstances and good luck on top of your hard work.

[Anonymous No.18892294]

>>18892084
but we are maximizing their use.
I could work 168 hours a week so when im successful and fully self actualized ill be very happy. Or I can work less, and be happy... now. Even if one day I find some ideal that I dedicate my whole life to and literally live for it, right now I don't have one, so why should I waste life running for an ideal someone else told me about and I don't believe?
at the end, working harder to 'own a house' or something is just a bad management of my resources when there are a billion other needs I want to fulfill, and much more.

[Anonymous No.18892299]

>>18892282
based rational take. its the crossroads of effort, applying that effort smartly (don't retard run into a wall because its in the way of your goal and cry that you hit a wall that was obviously there), and opportunity.

[Anonymous No.18892301]

>>18892205
Damn, just wait till you need to poop it, that will hurt

[Anonymous No.18892302]

>>18892278
> working more efficiently, doing different things. finding an angle.
...so working harder???? Where do you think this angle presents itself. Holy shit. This is the point in the thread where you're honest about where you are in your life.
inb4
>6 figure job
>house
>10/10 supermodel gf
>started as a poor subsaharan child that swam across the atlantic and started a business shining shoes

[Anonymous No.18892315]

>>18891320
Spoken like a true loser

[Anonymous No.18892331]

>>18892294
and I don’t disagree. just being honest with the level of effort you are willing to commit how you commit it and why is they key.

Most bad situations are preminebtly easy to divine. its just that people dont and leave it to faith while working hard but in no real directed sense.

[Anonymous No.18892337]

HAHA JSUT WORK 100 HOURS A WEEK FOR CHUCKTESLA/AMAZON AND ULL BE THE RICHEST MAN ON EARTH TOO KEK
who falls for this bullshit?

[Anonymous No.18892339]

>>18892337
>who falls for this bullshit?
There's like 4 of them in this very thread...

[Anonymous No.18892351]

wasnt there a leak YESTERDAY about how bezos doesnt let his employees get promoted because he thinks theyre all lazy slobs?
and you still think they aint in cahoots?

[Anonymous No.18892364]

I will NEVER work a single day of my life. The second I will have to be employed in a company I will kill myself before I ever walk in there.
My way or nothing. I earn a living in my way or nothing. I was given this body and mind and this is myself and there are things I was meant to do, and they're humble things. I will not deny myself these things and wear some faggy company's uniform and do stupid useless shit I hate for a paycheck.
If there's a God may He forgive me, but I am doing this to deny evil people my time, mind, heart and soul.

[Anonymous No.18892375]

>>18892364
holy kek are you me

[Anonymous No.18892392]

>>18892364
What do you like to do, anon? I used to be like that, too. And it turns out I hate work just as much as I hate not working.

[Anonymous No.18892395]

>>18892364
I used to have this mindset when doing office work. You should do labouring jobs or work construction sometime, it’s far more satisfying and less women around.

[Anonymous No.18892404]

>>18892392
I've failed at a few things so far quite miserably but I'm learning an artisan trade. I'll probably fail that too. I don't care.

[Anonymous No.18892405]

>>18892337
What else can you do? You have your advantages /disadvantages from birth (health, parent's wealth, family dynamic, location, etc), and there's luck (health, opportunities, etc). All you can control is the development of your skills and your effort. You are free to NEET or to fantasize/plan about the fascist/Marxist/whatever revolution which is totally imminent and will improve your life, or you can do what you can in your current situation.

[Anonymous No.18892413]

>>18892405
I know what I WON'T be doing and that's wagecuck myself into an early grave for these demon worshipping pedophillic epstein island visiting porsche driving land monopolizing egghead fucking Roswell immigrants

[Anonymous No.18892421]

>>18892405
Work just enough to secure survival and not an inch more. Read Walden.

[Anonymous No.18892432]

>>18892421
*Waldun

[Anonymous No.18892433]

>>18892421
>Work just enough to secure survival
So all the time you have

[Anonymous No.18892443]

>>18892125
Cope rentcel

[Anonymous No.18892444]

>>18891852
OP was saying that stoicism is their professed philosophy. It doesn't mean all stoics are billionaires or are trying to be, nor does it mean that Elon Musl really believe what he is saying.

[Anonymous No.18892445]

>>18892405
>What else can you do?
So many things. You seem to be a broken buck. Possibly an urbanite.
>move to the country, and live off the land as much as you can (you'd be very very surprised at how little you actually need)
>join an amish-like community
>part time job, small little house, spend your time doing whatever you like to do
And countless other things which all start with:
>buy less things
Or you can do the epic route of
>study hard at college
>enter work force
>buy many things
>grow old and bitter or die young
There's only one aspect of money that feels good. And that's power, and the high tier wagie has none.

[Anonymous No.18892453]

>>18892302
> ...so working harder????
i guess??? depends how you portray it. if you are cognizant of the likely outcome of of a particular dedication of work, i dont see the problem. if you have decided on a collage with 50,000$ semester tuition and plan to pay it off working as a burger flipper, that seems like a lapse of judgement and an preeminently ineffeciant utilization of work. maybe instead of that, try to build a resume working intern jobs in the specialist proffesion at a lower level with a job on the side, thusly balancing credit with debit.and making your work go further.

if there is a very visable wall and you smash your face against it repeatedly asking why your work in smashing your face against it isn't doing much, maybe try not to do that.

what i think is more important is to have more focus on economic in public school.

[Anonymous No.18892488]

>>18892445
You can move to a rural setting if you want, but my thinking was more oriented to someone who lives in a city/suburb. That being said, rural life can certainly be hard work as well.

[Anonymous No.18892543]

Musk never had some meteoric rise based on gradual hard work. He basically got lucky in the world of venture capitalism since his failing and dysfunctional company merged with what became PayPal, which was bought by ebay. He only got to that point because his first faltering company had the help of his father's friend who brought in venture capitalists. "le 100 hours of work" is a good whip against all his corporate underlings, though.
https://youtu.be/c-FGwDDc-s8

[Anonymous No.18892574]

>>18892453
>just make good choices bro
>rich person can make 10 bad choices before they actually start feeling it in their own economical well-being
>poor person can ruin their life with a bad college decision
kek. While I agree with your general point, that in any given person, defeatism is worse than not giving up, it's still such a nasty thing to say, since you are quite literally just beating down on people who might have been you with 1 thing going worse when you were young.
>>18892488
>That being said, rural life can certainly be hard work as well.
Rural life is 2x more work than any job I've held. It's harder, you do actually get less out of it (given how cheap produce is), and you can get fucked by bad weather. But, let me tell you, it feels a lot better than any soulless office job. My factory job used to drain the life out of me, and my programming job does that to a lower extent, but after a hard's day work at the farm, I feel invigorated and fresh.

[Anonymous No.18892580]

>>18891320
You know you can’t take people seriously about stoicism if they can’t answer the question of who is the father of stoicism? If you’re critique of stoicism isn’t rooted in a critique of Zenos paradoxes your critique is worthless

[Anonymous No.18892584]

>it's another historylet shittalks Marcus Aurelius episode
getting tired of reruns

[Anonymous No.18892605]

>>18892084
Your dad is a loser and so are you. His job is to brainwash kids to be obedient wage slaves.

[Anonymous No.18892772]

>>18892580
Those are two different people. Zeno of Citium and Zeno of Elea. Zeno of Elea, known for the paradoxes, was not the founder of Stoicism.

[Anonymous No.18892822]

>>18892251
I'm not about to deny that we are slaves to the system, but I don't know if I exactly agree with the idea that people who own businesses and have a bit more are any less slaves than someone more poverty struck. Everyone is a slave to the system, my dad is just a slave to the bank. And the bank is not even a man, it's just made up of men. The bank, and the large corporations are their own entity. It doesn't really matter who is where in the grand scheme of things. The system still stands, it's just a game but no entity really controls it. This is why the revolutions were a failure, the hierarchy was just rearranged and more/different kind of tyranny installed. Merely working your ass off isn't enough you're right, you need to play the game, and play it smart if you want more. Elon Musk grew up way more privileged but I still believe he worked hard and continues to do so. Thing is if the kids get inheritance yet don't know what they're doing it can be likely they lose it all or fuck up big time. Usually the mega rich don't even completely trust their offspring to take the helm so easily. You guys should be supporting Musk. Maybe one day we can use robots for slave labor, but even then it might not be ideal or take work to get better. Problem is humanity, men itself, is flawed, violent, and seeks to dominate others. The system is actually good in a way because it gives the weak a chance. Without the system there would be more war and more oppression. Elon definitely works a lot, and working a lot is definitely key to getting more in life. As another anon mentioned in the thread it really is a virtue. You have to sacrifice your present for your future a lot of the time and some people don't want to do that, fine but you may not be where you want in life. You're never going to escape the games in life. It will inherently always be a battle, a game. People seem to think Musk is just pumping out propaganda of working hard and lying so his workers will do more. Lol I don't agree. I think they're retarded. Wealth itself isn't the best motivator either. He could have stopped a long time ago and been well off.

[Anonymous No.18892833]

>>18892822
We do use robots for slave labor. They're called the poor.

[Anonymous No.18892864]

>>18892019
So the tech bros will develop apps for road and bed rentals along with the extant car rentals. Remember, you don't have to be having fun to be forced into a pattern of consumption.

[Anonymous No.18892874]

>>18891320
yes

[Anonymous No.18892875]

>>18892084
>My dads a public school teacher.
Your dad has at least half of his labor stolen and is denigrated endlessly by our culture. He should quit and do literally anything else.

[Anonymous No.18892882]

>>18892163
>if you can't buy a home, you rent
So I can see my rent go up 30 percent every quarter? Why don't we just depose your leech dad and take his property?

[Anonymous No.18892885]

>>18892163
>if you can't buy a home, you rent
If you're a sucker, yes

[Anonymous No.18892902]

>>18892882
Man I bet the guy who posted this has a self-actualized life full of action

[Anonymous No.18892946]

>>18892822
>Problem is humanity, men itself, is flawed, violent, and seeks to dominate others

Dominating someone isn't an act of violence but a necessity in human relationships, remember humans were the ones who made the system. What you meant to say is that humanity is flawed because it seeks to exploit. And you are one of those people when you dont recognise the needed existence of a hierarchy that comes as a result of dominance. You simply ask us to rebuild a hierarchy that you like. Yet you said that yourself for some reason

> This is why the revolutions were a failure, the hierarchy was just rearranged and more/different kind of tyranny installed

Stop contradicting yourself. Yes the system is bad but your way of thinking is also flawed that if we were going to rebuild the system, we would have to filter you.

>and working a lot is definitely key to getting more in life. As another anon mentioned in the thread it really is a virtue.

It is not a virtue, it is just how you cope, when someone fails the system tells him that they can only blame themselves for their failure, next time dont just work harder but also smarter. The system has brainwashed people, thinking that money will buy them happiness, having the ability to consume all you can is in their mind the absoltue form of freedom. Live a life that requires you to make money, working 10 hours a day to make 30-50k a year. Of course that man will think that the only way of freeing himself will be through making more money. And that's actually true, sad but true and one of the many flaws.

[Anonymous No.18893083]

>>18892433
Exactly. Employers have seized almost all the power they lost in the various labor movements of the 19th and 20th centuries. Very soon "just enough to secure survival" will encompass 16 or more hours a day.

[Anonymous No.18893088]

>>18892902
No one who is not a billionaire has a self-actualized life, bug.

[Anonymous No.18893099]

If you measure all your self worth based on money and constantly chase it you will never be satisfied as there will always be people with more money than you. Just follow whatever it is that makes you feel fulfilled and be able to support yourself rather than thinking you have to strive to be a billionaire or entrepreneur.

[Anonymous No.18893113]

>>18893099
Materialism and consoomerism promotes basing your self worth on how much stuff you have.

[Anonymous No.18893123]

I was having a fine conversation with this man's girlfriend when after I spoke Musk's name he immediately derailed into a moral flogging. I mean it was a torrent of words that must of last 3-5 minutes of why Musk was immoral and intolerable. After he finished I just commented something like 'oh yeah he's just a guy who got real lucky' which started him up again and he finished with saying he was sorry for derailing the conversation so hard. It must have been embarrassing for his gf but I exited the conversation as soon as he made his last comment. Totally bizarre.

[Anonymous No.18893134]

>>18891935
Modern taoist and Buddhist literature. There's a bunch of it. Check out Tao of Pooh and stuff

[Anonymous No.18893145]

>>18892946
Domination comes in different forms. With less control by means of the system, the more that domination will express itself in violence upon the weak. Lookup the definition of domination because it very much does express itself in violence typically.
>You simply ask us to rebuild a hierarchy that you like. Yet you said that yourself for some reason
I never said that. I have only claimed the system is flawed, yet also necessary, and also that the flaws are derived from man itself and not exactly just the system. Did you even read my post? Basically I think humans are just shit. We have always waged war and always will, there will always be a slave class, so to speak. There will always be the weak who are taken advantage of by the strong. Am I wrong? It's a feature of man. You can never truly escape suffering in this lifetime.

Nowhere did I contradict myself either. You haven't done anything more than argue semantics and misinterpret my post, so I don't know what you're trying to get at here.

To your last points, fair. But also what I mean is that people who are willing and do work hard are going to get more out of the system. I don't believe money alone brings happiness either. But when some of these people have a purpose they can find, that can help bring more happiness too. Musk for instance, I think he has a purpose to which he's honed in on.

[Anonymous No.18893151]

>>18891983
if only it weren't for the jew posting, you'd be so based otherwise

[Anonymous No.18893180]

>>18891320
Actually a quite interesting observation

[Anonymous No.18893189]

>>18892031
> retain the profits of your labor
That's the point of socialism and Marxism. The USSR's revisionist and corrupted state capitalism is not indicative of the ideal goals of socialism as a whole

[Anonymous No.18893281]

CEOs say they work 100 hours a week but that includes flying from city to city and sitting at a desk just listening to people.

[Anonymous No.18893320]

>>18893145
> There will always be the weak who are taken advantage of by the strong. Am I wrong? It's a feature of man.

Now that's exactly where i wanted to get. For me Master-Slave relationship, established by a non violent dominance is actually healthy. The master shouldn't exploit the slave and the slave shouldn't blame his master for his condition. If the slave has enough to feel gratitude then is he really a slave? At least in his mind he won't be.

>You can never truly escape suffering in this lifetime.

Bullshit, life was always like that no matter what change you bring to the system, suffering will always be part of it, same as with joy, pleasure, satisfaction etc.

The problem is that those considered slaves now are heavily disoriented by the system. For the majority of the people, speaking from my +9personal experience, what i have gathered is that this is best age of being a slave. This goes for western countries.

The system is not something that we can easily change, even when you see the climate crisis and half the Europe being on fire. Leftists go on the streets and all they do is acting as lobbyists for green energy, that is not changing anything and in fact so far it is proven that it only makes things worse. So the system is cancer to the extend that it dissorients people, there will be no revolutions in the future simply because we are all too pleased with the current state of things and don't really care for the future. All the values that this system pushes are a half ass baked nihillism and yes, i do think that complete extinction is probably the only way to get rid of both System and Human.

[Anonymous No.18893405]

>>18891320
Aurelius was a fraud.

>Bro just have infinite patience, wisdom and motivation never have a negative thought ever
>never get angry or frustrated or tired just do the perfect thing every time at all times
>control and optimise your every thought, behaviour and action every day for the rest of your life bro what's the big deal

[Anonymous No.18893417]

>>18893405
Why cant anyone read his book?

Its really a simple read.

[Anonymous No.18893446]

>>18892364
This was Nietzche and Stirner's view of work funny enough

[Anonymous No.18893525]

>>18892163
>if you can't buy a home, you rent, simple as.
Hmmm, I wonder why houses cost so much. I couldn't be because of landlords buying up all the properties for themselves, could it?

[Anonymous No.18893722]

>>18893088
why do you guys even pretend to give a shit about the poor when all you do is larp that you're going to kill rich people

[Anonymous No.18893777]

>>18893320
>Bullshit, life was always like that no matter what change you bring to the system, suffering will always be part of it, same as with joy, pleasure, satisfaction etc.
Agree. When I said "in this lifetime" I don't mean just this century, lifetime in general. It doesn't matter what age you're born into. Although I do think today is at least a little better and less gruesome.

I think the system needs fine tuning, and changes do need to happen. It doesn't do well to be too stagnant or too progressive. We need a balance. But as you said climate change is obviously an issue, because we're destroying our planet. But that's a different discussion honestly. I think we're on similar pages here. I will say it would be nice to eliminate fossil fuel dependence by 2030 which is a serious goal.

[Anonymous No.18893790]

>>18892574
>rich boy gets into drugs, pushes, gets arrested multiple times, etc.
>rich family "fixes him" eventually and get him a nice job through family asspats, now doing fine and successful
>rich boy skips entire years of school to smoke weed and fuck around
>family buys back his lost years through private school, keeps feeding him money until he finally learns something and finds a job, now doing fine and successful
>rich guy tries 200 different businesses, all fail because he's retarded, family has infinite money so eventually he opens a business that works, now doing fine
>poorfag falls ill, drops out of great college career in order not to burden family, life ruined forever, zero chance of bouncing back, now doing like shit
sorry for the analogy but rich people start life with cheat codes on easy mode, you've got to be beyond retarded to fail if you are born rich

[Anonymous No.18894661]

>>18892580
>>18892772
Kek

[Anonymous No.18894837]

>>18891320
I work 120 hours a week. Where's my company?

[Anonymous No.18894853]

>>18891320
Whatever Musk has to do with Stoicism...

[Anonymous No.18894865]

>explains his entire life to win argument on anonymous shitpost board

[Anonymous No.18894868]

>>18891972
>explains his entire life to win argument on anonymous shitpost board

[Anonymous No.18894914]

>>18891320
But then again, so is every other philosophical system no? It makes them seem more virtuous, more human.

[Anonymous No.18895120]

>>18894868
Is that supposed be a bad thing?

[Anonymous No.18895125]

Real talk, you just hate Musk because he's white, if he was black all of you would be sucking his dick. This board is filled with leftists.

[Anonymous No.18895357]

>>18891320
instead of thinking about hard work you should think about sacrifices.

[Anonymous No.18895381]

>>18893151
people are noticing

[Anonymous No.18895382]

>>18891320
wow this Elon Musk dude must be a really inspirational self-made person!
>look who is his father
Oh ok...

[Anonymous No.18895407]

>>18892125
>He doesn’t produce anything of worth
He financed the production of a home, and continually finances its maintenance. Construction companies don't just build houses for no reason.

[Anonymous No.18895411]

>>18892125
>working his register barely qualify as work
great, then wagies have no cause to complain about "barely working" at Walmart

[Anonymous No.18896042]

The grifter mentality is a symptom of an unthinking, labour-deifying, corporatist world that necessitates production for-itself as a method of keeping a finite economy going. I believe that the whole orientation towards hard work and grifting is misunderstood entirely - these people aren't creating a world, they're actively destroying, making ordinary, homogenising. Grift mentality is a shrine to pure quantity and, as logically follows, ordinariness. In this way, an individual who turns down work because they disagree with its practice, the company, the product, its toll on personal life etc. are evil in the eyes of the grifting masses, because they are exercising a freedom they find impossible and shameful - that is, NOT to work merely for the sake of it, to indulge in the sparsity and the silence of existence. I am convinced that the reason average people grift is because they cannot stand being alone with their own thoughts - organised, mechanised labour is the method of existential distraction par excellence. Nietzsche was already on to this in the Gay Science:
""There are, if only rarely, men who would rather perish than work without any pleasure in their
work. They are choosy, hard to satisfy, and do not care for ample rewards, if the work itself is
not the reward of rewards... Otherwise their idleness is resolute, even if it spells
impoverishment, dishonour, and danger to life and limb. They do not fear boredom as much as
work without pleasure; they actually require a lot of boredom if their work is to succeed. For
thinkers and all sensitive spirits, boredom is that disagreeable 'windless calm' of the soul that
precedes a happy voyage and cheerful winds... Precisely this is what lesser natures cannot
achieve by any means. To ward off boredom at any cost is vulgar, no less work without
pleasure."

[Anonymous No.18896089]

>>18895411
Pretty much

[Anonymous No.18896421]

>>18892019
It doesn't necessarily matter if you consume what you pay for. Just because John Smith is paying for a Netflix subscription that doesn't mean he's using it. The infinite 'wealth' of content doesn't all have to consumed en masse. I bet you could take any series, even a hit one, and the drop-off rate per episode would look straight geometric. Like, as in the # of people who've seen 1-3 eps of GoT surely shits on the # that have seen em all. Not that it matters, cuz both consumers are paying the same rate for it.

Now that I think about it I don't know what the point I was getting at with all that. But I've already typed it out so somebody's gotta read it. Asdasdssf

[Anonymous No.18896708]

>>18891935
anything on weber's protestantism insight

[Anonymous No.18897557]

>>18892282
Musk didn't work hard. There's a YouTube video exposing his doings.
Bezos, on the other hand, is deserving of his own success even though he did it through walking over his employees. At least he didn't take over companies or stole ideas and then painted them as his own achievement and creation.

[Anonymous No.18897611]

>>18892364
Yes. I'm in my mid-twenties and never had a real job. I'm not ashamed of it either because it means I didn't sell my time, the most precious resource on earth, for meager gains. I still respect people who have practical jobs like tradesmen and wouldn't mind one being myself if I wasn't a financial speculator already.

[Anonymous No.18898634]

>>18892395
I wish I read this earlier

[Anonymous No.18899080]

>>18891399
That's a very common but ahistorical reading.

[Anonymous No.18899125]

>>18891378
>Dude Elon worked 100 hours! It's on his Twitter

[Anonymous No.18899129]

>>18893189
Have you heard the maxim "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need?" This is antithetical to the notion of retaining the profits of your labor. You will retain only what your needs require and the rest will be to distributed according to the needs of others.

[Anonymous No.18899181]

>>18891972
>a house is basically 40+ months of my wage (which is around 2x the average wage in my area)

Holy shit you have no idea how jealous I am.

[Anonymous No.18899419]

>>18891490
https://youtu.be/QT13kk8HDDo

true

[Anonymous No.18900858]

>>18891320
stoicism if for children who can't keep their emotions in check and don't have the mental capacity to focus on their work.

[Anonymous No.18901254]

>>18891320
It's true, slimy billionaires are more disciplined and hardworking than the working class, who only care about getting payed more for working less hours