Jünger on degradation of language and American lit

[Anonymous No.18876391]

HERVIER: Do you feel that the Americanization of Europe and the invasion of its languages by English share some of the responsibility [for linguistic degradation]?

JÜNGER: Léautaud, for example, would have preferred a German victory to an American one, for cultural reasons.
But certain facts point in the opposite direction. There are excellent novelists in America, better ones than here: Hemingway, Faulkner, and so many others. Their works are valuable for their subjects as much as for the great quality of their style. Even if [our ]language loses a great deal of syntactical richness through contact with English, we may nevertheless wonder why it is, that the British have such a remarkable poetry.

[Anonymous No.18876585]

Above all, I want to avoid being frozen in a static image. Perhaps I'll have different notions tomorrow. Despite everything, the course of thinking remains highly instructive: it's like a courtroom trial: "What? Was that your intention? What would have happened if such and such a thing ... etc." Total decadence is certainly possible. But it is still indispensable for man to intervene and make use of his freedom. He can always change everything. Take the Thirty Year's War, for instance: the German language was deteriorating. And then along came men like. Opitz and, much later, Klopstock. I would say the same thing about the linguistic degradation peculiar to our era.

[Anonymous No.18877365]

"And for posthumous literary glory, I don't set excessive store by it. I'm skeptical, for I've observed that such glory pales even in an author's lifetime. He then leads the life of a pauvre poete oublii [a poor forgotten poet]. Or else he behaves very sensibly, like Rimbaud, who, after producing an exceptional literary oeuvre in his youth, devoted himself to commerce in Africa; that was more important in his eyes. And sub specie aeternitatis, the day will come when even Homer will be totally unknown. Glory is like the blazing tail of a comet, which still sparkles for a while in the wake of the work. You may then wonder what the goal of writing is, assuming it has a goal. It is the creative instant itself, in which something timeless is produced, something that cannot be wiped out. The universe has affirmed itself in the individual, and that must suffice, whether or not anyone else notices it. In 1942, when I visited Picasso on Rue des Grands-Auguscins, he said to me: "Look, this painting, which I have just completed, is going to have a certain effect; but this effect would be exactly the same, metaphysically speaking, if l wrapped the painting up in paper and consigned it to a corner. It would be exactly the same thing as if ten thousand people had admired it." And he added something that I particularly liked: "If the two of us had the power to negotiate peace, Paris could be illuminated tonight." And that's always how it is: two people who meet on a street corner or in a bus know how to deal with the issue of disarmament and the atomic bomb. But on a higher level, there seem to be blockages that are almost impossible to overcome."

[Anonymous No.18877648]

>>18876391
Sort of a whitepill desu, I am trying to gain back my appreciation for the English language. I have come to see it as a tool for commerce and industry and science, but inferior for purposes of art.

[Anonymous No.18877751]

>>18877365
Where’s this from?

[Anonymous No.18877788]

Anyone who has watched old American films must admit that America was a highly vibrant and energetic society.

[Anonymous No.18877809]

>>18877788
> keyword: was
Besides, that will happen when you ride the wave of emerging forces, like 19th and 20th century America did with absolutely no holding back. Nazi Germany also appeared very vibrant to many.

[Anonymous No.18877817]

>>18877809
USSR was very vibrant too.

[Anonymous No.18877832]

Junger became a massive pseud some time in the 1950s.

[Anonymous No.18877982]

>>18877832
Fake and gay

[Anonymous No.18878000]

I read Jünger's 'Atlantic Voyage' recently, a travelogue detailing a multi-week cruise/trip to Brazil during the 1930s. He struck me as kind of a pussy, voicing a deep-felt alienation at the uncontrolled manner in which human society, but also the local flora and fauna at large, displayed itself in ever-new sprawling forms, conveying a (to him) Lovecraftian horror confronted with the sheer potency of the New World's natural world. At one point, he describes a plant in the rain forest that causes great distress in him, he goes so far as to liken it to a innately sexual display; a giant, colourful blossom calyx, splaying itself indecently, luring him in. Entertaining read, but his autism concerning the classification of the natural world and its failure in application in this new biome, (he refers to biological taxonomies like that of Linnaeus quite often, with a certain distress when encountering new fauna) do get somewhat annoying at times

[Anonymous No.18878026]

>>18877982
He became retarded after the 1950s. He edited his earlier works to tone down the violence and nationalism in them, instead of just leaving them as monuments of his youth. He started acting like a bourgeois.

I know you like to post your essays about him here so you're in love with him or something but the way 4chan threads work is people can post things you don't agree with.

[Anonymous No.18878035]

>>18877788
This desu. The problem is all these old continentals, and some High tory Anglo types, saw in early America the future, as aided by the economies of scale that a nation as large and populous as America could allow, and were frightened by it. But this is just normal, fear of the future. The fact is these early times, before the true rot of modernity set in, were perfectly fine, the only problem is what they were portents of.

[Anonymous No.18878069]

>>18877832
You sound like the pseud. Do you even understand his motivations for the change, why he made them, how they came about? Of course you don’t.

[Anonymous No.18878077]

>>18878026
You stole your critique directly from Julius Evola, who had not even read later Jünger and you haven’t either. Stop pretending.

[Anonymous No.18878086]

>>18878069
Feel free to enlighten me. I'm just commenting on the obvious bourgeois turn in his later writings. Some of them are good don't get me wrong.

>>18878077
What the hell

[Anonymous No.18878094]

>>18876391
America is mostly a spic continent
If whoever quoted were actually above 110 IQ he would correctly refer to the Jewish vassal between Canada and Mexico as Burgerland

[Anonymous No.18878113]

>>18878035
> perfectly fine
By what measure? What does it even mean to be perfectly fine? America, from its very inception, was a nation build around inversion of the ancien regime, previous order, and predicated almost exclusively on the revolution of materialistic society. Those founders and patriots that are so admired? Progressive revolutionaries. Largely atheists. Some of the masons. Overly concerned with labor and economy alongside the leveling of distinctions, especially religion and tradition. Sound familiar? So what about it was “perfectly fine”?

[Anonymous No.18878131]

>>18878026
Retard

[Anonymous No.18878140]

>>18878086
>bourgeois
Bait

[Anonymous No.18878146]

>>18878086
Stop it with your “obvious bourgeois” nonsense. It’s blatantly taken from Julius Evola. Don’t deny it. It’s also inaccurate. The man turned from active involvement in the politics and world wars of Europe after fighting the most brutal battle of world war 1 precisely because he felt that the forces that Julius Evola went on and on about, and later concluded could not be stopped, would in fact end in disaster and he was right. Around the time of World War 2 and immediately after, he realized that nothing could be done and that’s around the time he developed the concept of the anarch and around the time he started to live a manner which seems clearly identifiable with that which is prescribed by Julius Evola in Ride the Tiger. The critique that he became a “bourgeois” is not only nonsense but it’s predicated entirely on the fact that he merely shared no affinity with the Nazi order, and for obvious reasons. It’s the single most shallow critique of the man that exists and all you’re doing is regurgitating it back up because you read it once and want to offer a hot take as if you know what you’re talking about. You didn’t actually even read his stuff and you know it.

[Anonymous No.18878169]

>>18878146
All I know about Julius Evola is what I've read on /lit/. I'm not talking about Nazism. I can barely make sense of your post frankly. None of this has anything to do with him becoming a bourgeois flaneur after World War 2. Eumeswil and Forest Passage were good books but editing his younger books and becoming a shallow social commentator is the most bourgeois thing anyone could do.

>>18878140
>>18878131
Samefag.

[Anonymous No.18878186]

>>18878169
I can’t believe you got me to respond to your shitty bait.

[Anonymous No.18878208]

>>18878169
How do you samefag separate posts?

[Anonymous No.18878222]

>>18878186
Sure you can. You're only here to post your unread blog essays about Junger and reply psychotically to anyone who says anything contradicting your opinion of him. Stick to sanitized German writers recommended by the New Yorker since you love bourgeois trash so much.

>>18878208
By being equally butthurt at every one so just one butthurt reply isn't enough. This isn't twitter. Stop trying to find ways to downvote.

[Anonymous No.18878225]

>>18878146
Although your post would be entirely correct if addressed to the type of person you think you are addressing, anon is coming from a different angle. I like Junger but there is probably justice to the charge. It's something he was sensitive to himself.

[Anonymous No.18878226]

He doesn't even have books in English cause he hated Anglos.

[Anonymous No.18878236]

>>18878222
>This isn't twitter
Says the twitterfag

[Anonymous No.18878249]

wha dis whyboi be talin bou tho

[Anonymous No.18878318]

>>18878222
>I do the glownigger work for free

[Anonymous No.18878358]

>>18878169
>shallow social commentator
Do you read this shit before posting?

[Anonymous No.18878411]

>>18878222
No, I got baited into replying to a moron who clearly hasn’t even read the author he’s asserting things about.

>>18878225
There’s not. If you actually read his writing, there would be absolutely no mistake about it.

[Anonymous No.18878613]

>>18877751
Hervier interview

[Anonymous No.18878907]

Who's the anon that shits up every one of these threads?

[Anonymous No.18878922]

>>18878907
Seems like the OP freaking out and calling everyone glownigger nazi Julius Evola hitsquads and needing ten "woww just wowwwwwww" replies to everything he disagrees with.

>>18878411
I'm starting to think you've never read Junger except what you found in snippets online.

[Anonymous No.18878933]

>>18878000
Haha fart

[Anonymous No.18878949]

>>18878922
>freaking out and calling everyone glownigger
>ctrlf
Most of the posts are yours though and youre being a retard as usual

[Anonymous No.18879013]

>>18878922
I'm the OP. I never argued anything with you because you're the samefag who's been in these threads for years subverting them. I posted months ago about Evola and it seems you're still seething about it. But apparently no one reads my blog posts....
Pretty sad. Maybe you should just stop reading Jünger if he triggers your ptsd this much.

[Anonymous No.18879052]

>>18878026
>I know you like to post your essays about him here so you're in love with him or something
Holy fuck you are retarded. You realise that anyone posting here regularly knows who you are right?

[Anonymous No.18879054]

>>18879013
>you're the samefag who's been in these threads for years subverting them
Literal paranoid schizophrenia. I said Junger was bourgeois and you wrote half a novel about some /pol/ shit. Even another anon agreed that you are off base. You aren't even arguing with me you're arguing with someone you made up.

[Anonymous No.18879062]

>>18878907
Just go through the old threads. It will be obvious.

[Anonymous No.18879063]

>>18879052
Yea apparently I'm a glownigger Evolatard who gang stalks OP for years... because I said Junger is bourgeois for writing lame social commentary.

[Anonymous No.18879084]

>>18879054
>paranoid schizophrenia
Holy kek, you dumb cunt.

[Anonymous No.18879165]

>>18879063
There are 42 posts and at least 12 are yours. What do you think this means?

[Anonymous No.18879190]

>>18879165
I just counted and it's under 10. Let me guess another five people are also me and my glownigger friends coming to get you for posting shitty Junger threads lately.

[Anonymous No.18879265]

>>18878000
>kind of a pussy
Youre gay.

[Anonymous No.18879286]

>>18879190
>posting shitty Junger threads lately.
What threads? And why not just go read someone you like.

[Anonymous No.18879374]

>>18878026
I absolutely agree with this anon’s take.
It is absolutely disgusting that Jünger sanitized such an influential work because he had become geriatric, cozy in his comfortable living and disillusioned through living too long. The favt you can since mainly only get the Gymnasium child friendly version is such a disservice by himself regarding the work.

The argument that the existing sentiment would have only brought “great destruction” is absolutely no argument against the sentiment, it just shows the bourgeois and geriatric side he gained. The Anarch is only for anemics and infirm, dont deny this.

Read Futurists.

[Anonymous No.18879394]

>>18878226
This. You don't have any of his books.

[Anonymous No.18879498]

>>18879374
>sanitized
How?

[Anonymous No.18879537]

>>18879374
So which Jünger books have you read? Name all zero of them.

[Anonymous No.18879543]

>>18879537
More than OP and you.

[Anonymous No.18879544]

>>18879374
Just shut the fuck up and get out of the thread.

[Anonymous No.18879561]

>>18879544
Look at the Anglo schizo seething.

[Anonymous No.18879615]

>>18877832
Kek
Based

[Anonymous No.18879653]

>>18879537
>>18879394
In the other thread anon said his main works aren't even translated. Is that true?

[Anonymous No.18879664]

>>18879653
No. I’m looking at English copies of Storm of Steel, Eumeswil, and Copse 125 right now and that’s not even close to all I have from him in English.

[Anonymous No.18879682]

>>18879374
>this anon
lmao

[Anonymous No.18880153]

>>18879653
Plenty of them aren't

[Anonymous No.18880157]

Sad thread.

[Anonymous No.18880182]

>>18880153
Most of his non-fiction is not yet available in English, but a portion of it is and I would argue that it’s a portion that represents the core of him as a writer pretty well. All but 1 or 2 of his novels and short stories are yet to be translated.

[Anonymous No.18880805]

>>18879653
Is that the physiognomy thread? Mostly untrue.
Annäherungen. Drogen und Rausch is translated as Approaches: Drugs and Ecstatic Intoxication. The pdf is available as well as a softcover print of it (something I made just to have a hard copy).

That's probably not one of his major works, although it definitely ties in as it has most of his aesthetic thought and is one of the only major works on the philosophy of drugs.
His most important writings are Storm of Steel, The Worker, On the Marble Cliffs, The Forest Passage, Eumeswil, Visit to Godenholm, An der Zeitmauer, Die Schere, and his journals.

Of those only a few are untranslated, although with the journals that is a big chunk of writing, and An der Zeitmauer is incredibly important, maybe the only thing that surpasses The Worker, and is pretty much essential to understanding Eumeswil. It is what puts him on the level of the greatest thinkers.

[Anonymous No.18880879]

>>18879544
>>18879498
>>18879537
>>18879682
it is quite cringe how you respond to criticism desu.8

[Anonymous No.18880934]

>>18876391
interesting recommendation. always love reading the Germans' thoughts on America

[Anonymous No.18881002]

>>18878077
there's a couple of medicore "traditionalist" here that do that all the time, just use evola and guenon missinformed and medicore critics of junger, leibniz, spinoza etc to asure themselves of the schizo path they choose to take

[Anonymous No.18881057]

>>18880879
>asking for an explanation is cringe
>but not my samefagging
What you think is criticism is cringe desu

[Anonymous No.18881067]

>>18879190
Get help.

[Anonymous No.18881091]

Bros why did someone so athletic hate sport?

[Anonymous No.18881168]

>>18880805
Can you translate them?

[Anonymous No.18881497]

>>18881057
mate, there is at most one other anon beside me who has voiced criticism and beside that there is no attempt to samefag this criticism.
The 4 one line seething replies to tgis seem more like a samefag than anything else.

Why are you so hard to reject very young Jünger for the bug collector Jünger?

[Anonymous No.18881501]

>>18880879
This. There is at least one person in these threads who responds to every negative statement about Jünger like a girl in a cunty mood.

[Anonymous No.18881504]

>>18877788
The leftist jewification was its demise.

[Anonymous No.18881521]

>>18878113
And what is the Germanic Ancien Regime to the Romans of antiquity? Nothing but imposter barbarians.

[Anonymous No.18881551]

>>18879537
I've read 2 editions of Storm, Copse 125, On Marble Cliffs, The Forest Passage, The Worker, and Eumeswil. Not much really but it's not hard to see how his earlier work has a certain vitality that becomes muted in his later work. His earlier stuff is all about action and taking on society whereas his later work is about coming to terms with your impotence as an individual living in a system beyond your reckoning. Even just comparing the 1920 Storm edition to the post-war Penguin edition you can see it. He purposefully changed the tone of the book in a way that very clearly reflects an older man disapproving of his younger self's idealism.

[Anonymous No.18881556]

>>18881497
What criticism? Making shit up and lying is as cunt as it gets. Plus you admitted that no one besides you is criticizing anything. You're just dumb

[Anonymous No.18881571]

>>18881551
He still seemed to have it in Forest Passage to me but the anarch shit is cringe. At least Heidegger and Schmitt stuck to their guns and didn't try to make peace with the bourgeoisie so they could get lots of dick sucking interviews.

[Anonymous No.18881579]

>>18881556
Are you really so rabidly defensive that you can't imagine there's more than one person disagreeing with you? You are a brittle fragile little faggot

[Anonymous No.18881588]

>>18881551
>he wuz a twitter zoomer like me
>then he betrayed Hitler
You've made this criticism in every thread. It's baseless and retarded as several people have pointed out.
If you don't like him fine but why bitch about it in every thread. It's pathetic.

[Anonymous No.18881592]

>>18881579
You're the most obvious samefag.

[Anonymous No.18881598]

>>18881571
>bourgeoisie
Zero awareness.

[Anonymous No.18881599]

>>18881592
I am >>18881571 and >>18881579

How is that samefagging you seriously crazy nigger

[Anonymous No.18881623]

>>18881599
>talks about vitality and action
>sits on the internet all day taking twitter shit
Post a legit criticism or stfu.

[Anonymous No.18881634]

>>18881588
>everyone who disagrees with me is one person
What the fuck are you talking about nigger, if I didn't like him I wouldn't have read so many different works by him. Respond to what I said or don't but this autistic screeing about Hitler(?) is just gay.

>>18881571
Well those two works are like 25 years apart so it makes sense. Eumeswil is very clearly an old man's perspective on things. In the story there's even the one guy who's an advisor to the Condor that is explained as having taken a forest passage that ends up leading them all into the forest again at the end, Eumeswil is sort of Junger taking a step back from his previous work and looking at it from a more mature viewpoint. Eumeswil came out in the late 70s, he'd already been living in the post-war West for 30 years so it sort of makes sense that his attitude had shifted to the sort of resigned position that it did.

[Anonymous No.18881637]

>>18881623
I just told you I'm not the one who mentioned vitality or action... That was the other guy. Although I do agree with him. Does any conversation happen in your threads that you don't subject to this everyone's a samefag routine?

[Anonymous No.18881654]

>>18881497
How is it seething to ask for an explanation?

[Anonymous No.18881661]

>>18881637
What contribution have you made to the thread or any Junger thread? OP at least makes good threads.

[Anonymous No.18881667]

>>18881634
Ok so post what you like about him and his literature instead of this bullshit >>18877832

[Anonymous No.18881685]

>>18881667
Look at what happened because that guy posted some
criticism, actual discussion got sparked even with you and possibly others making one word or one line replies to everything you dislike. It's almost like that's how a thread is supposed to go and you don't control the content like a moderator.

You are the one who writes and thinks like Twitter users, that is why I called you brittle.

[Anonymous No.18881686]

>>18881556
>Making shit up and lying is as cunt as it gets
This. We used to have really good Jünger threads here so why turn it into this?

[Anonymous No.18881695]

>>18881685
>actual discussion
You have very low standards.

[Anonymous No.18881701]

>>18877648
That will change every language. A lot of languages are going gender neutral.

[Anonymous No.18881706]

>>18881686
They aren't usually that good, just some Twitter guy posting his midwit takes.

[Anonymous No.18881714]

>>18881685
>posted some criticism
Where?

[Anonymous No.18881727]

>>18881706
>seething this hard

[Anonymous No.18881737]

>>18876391
Not every american produces literature; I don't know why he used this argument. Quite a stupid one, infact.
>>18878069
>>18878077
>>18878131
>>18878140
>>18878146
>>18878186
>>18878208
>>18878236
>>18878358
>>18878411
>>18879498
>>18879537
>>18879544
>>18879682
>jüngerfags can't deal with criticism
>proceed to say "ummm, just leave sweety!!"
wow, great fucking thread

[Anonymous No.18881744]

>>18881091
kek

[Anonymous No.18881757]

looking at the archives the OP of these threads is a guy with several blogs he shills here, lots of samefagging in his threads going way back

[Anonymous No.18881758]

>>18881737
>Not every american produces literature
What the fuck are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.18881777]

>>18881757
Got him

[Anonymous No.18881815]

>>18881757
You're obviously creightonfag. I've never seen junger anon shill here.

[Anonymous No.18881833]

>>18881815
what? just search mandalietmandaliet blogspot on warosu, he's been doing it for years

[Anonymous No.18881835]

>>18881737
Post criticism first.

[Anonymous No.18881852]

>>18881833
Ok it comes up with five posts this year.

[Anonymous No.18881862]

>>18881833
>>18881852
And then August of last year. How is that shilling? lmao you're obsessed.

[Anonymous No.18881869]

>>18881852
most social media shills who come here only come occasionally, looks like he makes threads now and then and links his blog when possible, not illegal but explains the circlejerk and twitter atmosphere of the threads and the obsession with criticism

[Anonymous No.18881875]

>>18881862
he also shills his forum and 2 other blogs, you can find them easily by searching. his twitter is empty though so good for him lol.

[Anonymous No.18881884]

>>18881875
What are the other blogs?

[Anonymous No.18881886]

>>18881758
Jünger's retort to anglo linguistic invasion due to cultural hegemony is: "Uhh y'know they also have writer and write prose and poetry", which is not what Hevier was asking. Americanization and the expasion of their kind of techno-capital has infact degraded each countries unique form of expression. In my country, for example, from baby boomers to zoomers it is rarer and rarer to find any who, in their sentences,don't express themselves through some anglo term, which has a direct (and many times, even more profound), translation.

[Anonymous No.18881918]

>>18881869
I don't get it. Anon posts five times in a year and then samefags in other threads. And he doesn't use twitter but he's a twitterfag. What?

[Anonymous No.18881932]

>>18881918
only meant twitter loosely, people posting their blogs and obsessing like this are often some sort of social media thing, remember the accelerationism threads? or girardfag but he never shilled a blog from what i remember

[Anonymous No.18881936]

>>18881932
this onealso posts about that BAP twitter account alot, those BAP vs kantbot threads always bring out the twitter posters, same with podcasts and bunkertrannies

[Anonymous No.18881959]

>>18881932
The guy here doesn't seem like junger anon though. His writing style is different.

[Anonymous No.18881963]

>>18881932
>>18881959
Also this complaining about him started a few posts in >>18878026

[Anonymous No.18881974]

>>18881959
It's obviously him.

[Anonymous No.18882001]

>>18881833
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=yes&search_text=Mandalietmandaliet

Turns up based threads. Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.18882046]

>>18881974
Compare his btfo of Evola
>>/lit/thread/S16856649#p16879009

[Anonymous No.18882069]

>>18881875
Why do you know this?

[Anonymous No.18882122]

>>18878026
>the way 4chan threads work
>>18881685
>It's almost like that's how a thread is supposed to go
Incredibly cringe.

[Anonymous No.18882167]

>>18881886
Retard

[Anonymous No.18882509]

>>18878086
>obvious bourgeois
junger was alway anti-bourgeois you idiot

[Anonymous No.18882514]

>>18881757
Fake and gay

[Anonymous No.18882531]

>>18881886
If you would have read "A German Officer in Occupied Paris" you would know the he hated what was coming from americanisation after the second world war in terms materialism etc - that does not mean that junger acknowledges that the english language is 'beautiful' and some americans have "perfected" it.

[Anonymous No.18882571]

>>18881551
You need to be 18 to post here.

[Anonymous No.18882818]

I think this thread indicates most posters aren’t smart enough to talk about him and those that are don’t seem to be interested in him.

[Anonymous No.18882903]

>>18876391
>we may nevertheless wonder why it is, that the British have such a remarkable poetry.
This statement seems ironic today, I wonder if was also ironic when he made it.

[Anonymous No.18882931]

>>18881833
OP/Jünger anon here. No idea what you're thinking with this. Every time I've posted my blogs it was because someone either directly asked or they showed an interest in my writings.
All you did was make your autistic attempts at subversion clear to everyone. For the most part people ignore my posts, or one or two people respond, but the thought of even one person reading my thoughts on Jünger drives you completely insane for some reason, then you go off calling me a schizo and samefag.

Here you preemptively started seething so I must have wrote something that really got under your skin. Wonder what that would be...

[Anonymous No.18883016]

To get the thread back on track

"Every work ultimately perishes, even Homer will disappear. As the Greeks said, the universe periodically goes up in flames so that it may be resurrected. However, there is something in Homer that has no direct relationship to society: that is what I look for in an author. The longevity of a work is directly dependent on that. Voltaire will not survive as long as some of his contemporaries who possess that element of eternity. Thus, I am convinced that Rousseau will outlive Voltaire, people will continue to be excited by Rousseau, for he has that spark which, for me, symbolizes the eternal values or what are known as the eternal values—the only things that bestow true permanence."

[Anonymous No.18883067]

"HERVIER: So then you're generally hostile to a writer's committing himself politically?
JüNGER: It's also a question of age: literature and politics diverge to the extent that one is interested on the one hand, in the world as will, and, on the other hand, in the world as representation. In a young man, the forces issuing from will are still very powerful: remember the sympathy that our classical German writers initially felt with the French Revolution: you enter a situation, but then you're quickly disappointed. You know that Baudelaire originally hailed the Revolution of 1848 as a passionate spectator but he was rapidly disgusted. And the same thing happened to our [Theodor] Fontane. Young men, whose temperament is still highly active, are unable to resist political temptations,·even if it's one of our greatest poets, such as Hölderlin, who is now being drafted for politics. Yet politics plays a very ephemeral and subordinate role in him. Hölderlin expressed himself about politics, for instance, in his poem about the peace of Lunéville, and today they're making such a fuss about it. Upstairs in my library, I have the big edition of Holderlin: if you gather up the political portion, you won't even have one percent of the total number of pages. His exemplary aspect is of a completely different nature. The writer and, above all, the poet are less ideologues than men capable of uttering exemplary words and creating exemplary characters. Perhaps they have the right to try intervening in politics once: on a major occasion with important consequences, as was the case in the Dreyfus Affair, in which writers played a considerable role. One can then say: "That man was perfect politically." But whether he's a good writer is a completely different story."

[Anonymous No.18883091]

HERVIER: In the preface to your war journal, you write: ''The function of the poet is one of the highest in the world. When he transmutes a word, minds crowd around him; they have an inkling of the blood offering. The future is thus not only an object of vision; it is evoked and even conjured up.

JÜNGER: · It is my supreme conception of the function of the poet, who can transform the world. He, of course, does not profit from it at all, but he can utter the word, and to this extent, he performs a cultic function—he is not a mere entertainer. This intuition is inevitably very rare; but when you read the great classical and romantic poets, you come upon passages that seem to derive from inspiration in a pure state."

[Anonymous No.18883110]

And on Storm of Steel

"I recently received a statement, which says that The Storms of Steel, even though it first carne out in 1920, has been enjoying a lasting interest for over sixty years; and I believe that this is because I relate nothing but facts. I offer no opinion or ideology, I merely recount how the ordinary soldier lived through that war, which was the final war."

So in his own words, editing Storm of Steel was not a political decision, it was to remove any of the political excess, to purify it as a book of war - the importance of which is increased because it is the Last War.

[Anonymous No.18883112]

>>18882167
dilate
>>18882531
Ok, and I disagree with Jünger.

[Anonymous No.18883182]

>>18883112
>I disagree with Jünger
About what?

[Anonymous No.18883197]

>>18878000
>Atlantis fart

[Anonymous No.18883206]

>>18878069
Yes I know his motivations. It was to stay in the good graces of the post war literary community as a respected author and to avoid social ostracism. That's all. No intellectual principle behind it. A very German desire to swim with the current.

[Anonymous No.18883225]

>>18882931
I noticed this. Interesting tactics being used.

[Anonymous No.18883283]

>>18883206
Blatantly incorrect and even a less than focused reading of his fiction could indicate that plainly.

[Anonymous No.18883299]

>>18883182
I disagree with his answer to the question:
>Do you feel that the Americanization of Europe and the invasion of its languages by English share some of the responsibility [for linguistic degradation]?
simple as

[Anonymous No.18883356]

>>18883299
Cringe

[Anonymous No.18883387]

>>18883299
Then why are you speaking English right now?

[Anonymous No.18883388]

>>18882818
This thread indicates that you are retarded and most people will never get Junger.

[Anonymous No.18883416]

>>18883387
He literally did it for America. Read the book.

[Anonymous No.18883420]

>>18883388
Okay. Tell us how “bourgeois” he is again. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.18883454]

>>18883016
>However, there is something in Homer that has no direct relationship to society
Jüngerfag can please elaborate on this?

[Anonymous No.18883455]

>>18876391
How many people do you think Junger killed?

[Anonymous No.18883537]

>>18883110
Interesting. This clears up a lot of the arguments on translation.

[Anonymous No.18883820]

>>18883416
kek

[Anonymous No.18883840]

>>18878000
If you wanna read some Flora description book go read Euclides Da Cunha's Os Sertões.

[Anonymous No.18883841]

>>18881974
I don’t want to rule it out, but so far it has seemed like a cheap imitation of Jünger posting which is very sub par to his typical style of posting.
Also his attitude is so different to how usually he replies when someone voiced criticism of one even minute aspect. Replying to each critical post with 4 one line twitter tier (you)s I haven’t even seen him do before.

[Anonymous No.18883958]

>>18878226
>He doesn't even have books in English cause he hated Anglos.
Is it true?

[Anonymous No.18884098]

>>18881886
Post country. I'm curious.
Also, are the french the only ones still uncucked by the english language?

[Anonymous No.18884356]

>>18884098
>uncucked by the english language
>the french
is this a joke?

[Anonymous No.18884511]

>>18884356
>is this a joke?
I mean, the french are notorious pretentious fucks that I heard activelly avoid using english words in their daily speech. Plus, there are a lot of english words of french origin in the Queen's language so it's NOT like they didn't punch back.

[Anonymous No.18884542]

>>18884511
the french were the first anglophiles who started importing english words. (they dont even have their own word for week-end)
Their politicians today might be less inclined to use american words in their speech than others but their youth is just as cucked.

[Anonymous No.18884634]

>>18884542
>Their politicians today might be less inclined to use american words in their speech than others but their youth is just as cucked.
It's time for them to learn Arab. kek

[Anonymous No.18885902]

>>18883958
No

[Anonymous No.18886586]

>>18882818
>don’t seem to be interested in him.
Why is this?

[Anonymous No.18886737]

>>18879544
cope, junger is a faggot and old fart

[Anonymous No.18886760]

>>18881571
>Heidegger and Schmitt stuck to their guns
Try reading.

[Anonymous No.18886769]

i really have a disdain for old farts who want to lick the establishment´s boot, ernst junger is one of them

[Anonymous No.18886869]

>>18883841
I think anon's arguments are good, and he's probably more clear than I tend to be.

[Anonymous No.18887824]

I was trying to write a response for you but got caught up with other things. I'll get back as soon as I can.

[Anonymous No.18888381]

>>18882931
Based
>>18886769
Cringe

[Hodd Toward No.18888860]

>>18877365
Thanks OP that was nice.

[Anonymous No.18889590]

>>18887824
Meant for >>18883454

[Anonymous No.18889600]

>>18887824
>>18889590
Thanks
Still waiting bro

[Anonymous No.18889685]

>>18883454
Perhaps the simplest example of this is in all the trees which are cut down in the Iliad, the recurring image of the hero's death. Violence cannot be taken as man sees it himself, in all the blood and gore, but as a great part of a territory which formed and is now being cut away, freeing that which is underneath. It must be a type of metamorphosis.
In other words, the relation of time and law, where there is a great shift of eras, gives blood a force of renewal. One can see in it something beyond the tragic, yet it is not the type of violence which brings society to a standstill, which strikes fear into it - as with all of the blood without sacrifice, or the mere accident.
In the fighting of Diomedes there is also a return to the moment of creation, of the parting of seas. In this there is something beyond the societal order, and even what we understand as individualism or power. It is perhaps even beyond what we refer to as the highest laws, or noble character, and is close to Goethe's primordial plant.

Both man and state must be freed to their urcharakter, which is not only the impossible weight of the past, of tradition, but a teleology which freely gives way and carries one over the highest walls, as in death.

[Anonymous No.18889725]

>>18889685
Another possibility. I really like what Ortega says of hunting: that the source of the hunt is not to have killed, but to have killed so as to have hunted. Here we might say that the purpose of society is not to have justice, or any of the highest values, but to have justice so as to have a society.
In this both cause and end, the nomos and teleology, fall away from the form - yet are strengthened by it. In it we have a type of informality, but also something higher than law which elevates the activity. It is like the poetic word or sentence which undergoes a metamorphosis, and transmutes our very sense of the world in the process.

One may think of the Holy Grail, or the Kyffhäuser. There is a hidden territory of the state which acts as a great counterbalance to any hardening of law. Loss of this is perhaps the very source of the division of powers in liberalism.

[Anonymous No.18889842]

>>18889725
Carl Schmitt's short essay on Rousseau is interesting here, I think. In him we see the progressive revolutionary, the cultic worship of humanitarianism, even totalitarianism - but also something much greater. He is of course none of the representations bestowed upon him, and existed as something of a transmutation of the providential order, to which so few liberals or conservatives could.live up to.
He was the last man, but in the heroic sense as one who fights against the monstrous excess of civilisation - both solitary walker and partisan warrior.

In this is the theological and mythic take form, even in secular man. Society alone cannot determine his character. The last man is a divided figure, both in the highest and lowest sense, and deployed by the interested third party in place of law, iconography, flags. It has an earth character.

This is important to keep in mind, as it is something other than the image of decline, of winter as death. In it we see the modern period in its own form, with its own theological laws which govern it. What has changed is only a great shift, or metamorphosis, as in nature.
The great importance of this is that without it conservative sentiments can only give ground. They deny the dominion of the era, and cannot ever act upon its order. In its place they can only create their own illusory figures, or false Rousseaus.

[Anonymous No.18889863]

>>18889842
This would also counter marxism entirely, but such thinking seems lost to the right-wing.

[Anonymous No.18889889]

>>18889842
And of course, Socratic irony is another source. Its ease in the shifting of forms terrifies the modern man. This is counterintuitive to any interpretation of progress, constant change, or infinite becoming, yet it gets to the theology of it. The hardened and iron-principled man evokes constant change as a type of security in what must be unchanging, as a flak jacket which must be repaired in each moment within the eternal war.And
He reverses all laws of metamirphosis. More than anything he must behead all the sleeping kings, find the lost Kyffhäusers, rather than behead any living king.

[Anonymous No.18890438]

>>18880805
>Annäherungen. Drogen und Rausch
Has anyone read this?

[Anonymous No.18890448]

>>18890438
>Has anyone read this?
Seconding it. What does it say?

[Anonymous No.18890470]

>>18878000
>kind of a pussy,
says the man who never leaves his own town.

[Anonymous No.18890573]

>>18890438
Yes, I read it about 20 years ago. It is a "diary of a drug fiend" where a highly sophisticated "user" weighs in on the spiritual space of each drug he tries. One thing I remember is he was friends with Albert Hofmann, the inventor of LSD, and they take some of it together. Unfortunately, Hofmann is afraid of its possible effect on an "artist" (an unstable person) so he practically microdoses. Also, Jünger had already done mushrooms with Klett (the publisher) so he wasn't particularly overwhelmed. But it was still chill.

[Anonymous No.18890698]

>>18878146
Evola's charge against Juenger wasn't that he left politics or even his idea of the anarch (with the one exception that Evola considered it cowardly that Juenger was possibly involved in a plot against Hitler while he was serving in WWII), it was his rescinding of his earlier views given in Worker and Storms of Steel, and his turning to a lukewarm branch of Christian social democracy after the war. It was a purely intellectual charge levelled against him, not anything he did or didn't do practically.

[Anonymous No.18891282]

>>18881571
>>18880805
>>18878026
>>18890438
>>18880805

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/child7.htm

ernst junger started experimenting with LSD and mescaline in about 1949-50, and did this heavily for 15-20 years. this is one thing which transformed his worldview and writing style a lot

he was close friends and correspondent with hoffman, the man in switzerland (like a few hours drive from jungers house) , who invented LSD.

[Anonymous No.18891346]

>>18890698
I’m aware of that, but Evola also did not read very many of his writings and he fell into the broad generalization many fell into that Jünger, through his association with artists and writers in Paris and his rejection of both the Nazis and the Fascists, that he had grown soft and bourgeois, liberalized if not liberal. Evola was obsessed with being anti-bourgeois to a point of near absurdity and he was too quick on the trigger with Jünger. He even criticized his alleged pacific ism and claimed he had grown an anti-war stance which is ironic since Jünger saw combat, a lot of it, in the First World War and Evola didn’t. Even today, a lot of people misinterpret Junger’s Eumeswil as a sort of libertarian manifesto but piecing together his writings show he’s clearly not that. It’s merely most people don’t go deep enough in his writings. I should also add that it’s especially ironic considering Evola would later go on to develop this idea of riding the Tiger. But Jünger almost immediately developed ideas along the same lines and in fact lived it out. The point is, he didn’t engage with him enough to be making these accusations in confidence. That’s kind of a trend with Evola if you notice…

[Anonymous No.18892460]

>>18877365
sounds miserable. who wouldn't want to be remembered for all time?

[Anonymous No.18892483]

what is it about 20th century fascists and german schizos that attract the angriest autists on the internet?

[Anonymous No.18892511]

>>18877365
I don’t think that’s what Homer had in mind when writing the Iliad though and it’s certainly not what Alexander had in mind when mimicking Achilles

[Anonymous No.18892705]

>>18892483
Most likely trannies and leftists trying to turn people. Butterfly got caught posting without a trip in a recent thread.

[Anonymous No.18893154]

>>18881667
That wasn't even me faggot, everyone who disagrees with you isn't a single person.

[Anonymous No.18893185]

>>18892483
There's literally one guy on here who's showed up in every single Junger thread without fail for the past few years who spergs out at anybody who doesn't agree with him 100%. There's also definitely at lot of leftists like >>18892705 said who pop into any threads about vaguely right wing authors and start shit flinging.

[Anonymous No.18893213]

>>18893185
>20:34:25
>>18893191
20:35:56

[Anonymous No.18893240]

>>18892705
Hol up it's Butterfly shilling the 1929 translation? BASED

[Anonymous No.18893274]

>>18893185
Anon why do you post in upper case then lower case?

[Anonymous No.18893297]

>>18893213
>>18893274
Holy kek what a dumbass.

[Anonymous No.18893358]

>>18893213
Wait what's happening here?

[Anonymous No.18893487]

>>18893358
Some autist is trying to pull a #metoo on Junger poster.

[Anonymous No.18893498]

>>18893213
>>18893274
I don't understand either of these posts?

[Anonymous No.18893523]

>>18893498
It's a mystery.

[Anonymous No.18893554]

>twitterniggers are schizoposting
Classic Junger thread

[Anonymous No.18893588]

>>18893185
You Will Never Be A War Hero

[Anonymous No.18893607]

>>18893498
What is there to understand? The same guy who spergs about Tocqueville posts spergs about Junger anon.

[Anonymous No.18893638]

>>18893498
Junger was a Dumbocrat advocating Freedumb for Israel but not MIGA.

[Anonymous No.18893656]

>>18893523
kek

[Anonymous No.18893670]

>>18893588
Taliban are based don't know why you're replying to me with this though?

>>18893607
I haven't posted in that other thread, I literally made a single post here about the Jungerposter that isn't sperging out? He is constantly in Junger threads shitting them up. I don't think I have ever posted in a Junger thread without him being there in years now. I don't understand why you think I'm some random posting in a completely unrelated thread and I don't get what that has to do with what I said here.

[Anonymous No.18893696]

>>18893670
Poster count didn't go up, so this isn't your first post.

[Anonymous No.18893713]

>>18893185
>spergs out at anybody who doesn't agree with him 100%
Post quote

[Anonymous No.18893733]

>>18893696
Yeah no shit retard my first post was the one that you originally replied to, aka the post we're talking about.

>>18893713
Earlier in the thread he's clearly the guy calling everyone a nazi for saying the Junger's beliefs evolved as he got older.

[Anonymous No.18893734]

>>18893670
>Jungerposter that isn't sperging out
Who?

[Anonymous No.18893740]

>>18893733
>calling everyone a nazi
What?

[Anonymous No.18893741]

>>18893734
He's like the Guenonposter of Junger threads, incredibly autistic and stubbornly wrong.

[Anonymous No.18893744]

>>18893740
Yeah he's pretty retarded kek

[Anonymous No.18893763]

>>18878922
>Seems like the OP freaking out and calling everyone glownigger nazi
>>18893733
Wow you are fucking dumb. Just

[Anonymous No.18893772]

>>18893741
Who are you referring to? I can remember plenty of threads without the twitter nonsense.

[Anonymous No.18893773]

>>18893763

[Anonymous No.18893780]

>>18893733
>t. Creightonfag
You got caught samefagging in the old threads and nothing you said here corresponds with reality.

[Anonymous No.18893784]

>>18893772
It's not just the Twitter shit. He's not a namefag or a tripfag or anything he just shows up in every thread and spergs out at everyone and the thread always ends up derailing. I don't know how to describe it to you other than the fact that you can go back and read this thread and find examples of him. This chain is pretty good-
>>18881588
>>18881667
He's like a schizo or something because every thread he just starts shit flinging at everyone and when people argue with him he always thinks that everyone who disagrees with him is a single person. And it happens in almost every Junger thread.

[Anonymous No.18893788]

Here's the link
>>/lit/image/ie-H2XzklM9Kqa3RHNRgVQ

Obviously the same guy. And here you show the same mental illness stalking a guy and making up conspiracy theories about him.

[Anonymous No.18893793]

>>18893772
Like this shit >>18893780 I swear to God I've seen this mentally ill retard post this same type of shit across tens of Junger threads for years

[Anonymous No.18893794]

>>18893213
mate you are shitting up the board far more by sperging about this anon’s threads than his bump-line threads are.

Can you seriously just chill; you both react to each other like total autists in special ed class.
>>18893498
>>18893358
Newfags fuck off!
>>>/r/eddit

[Anonymous No.18893805]

>>18893784
One post asks you what you like about Junger. wtf is schizo about that? And the other one is complaining because your argument is baseless.
And if you just entered the thread why are you so worked up about it?

[Anonymous No.18893811]

>>18893788
But is he wrong? Are there any deleted posts bumping this thread in the archive?

[Anonymous No.18893825]

>>18893793
lmao look at this dude.

[Anonymous No.18893828]

>>18893825
Yeah and he posts it every single fucking thread

[Anonymous No.18893833]

>>18893793
Dude. Five posts in and you were sperging out about junger anon writing essays when all he did was post a quote. Get a grip.

[Anonymous No.18893836]

>>18893805
What do you mean? It exemplifies his posting style where he calls people Nazis for disagreeing with him then links together a bunch of unrelated posts and calls them all the same person. You can go look back at past Junger threads if you want and this shit happens every time.

[Anonymous No.18893843]

>>18893833
5 posts into what? My first post was like 150 posts into this thread.

[Anonymous No.18893849]

>>18893828
>creightonfag
>last posted in march 2020
Nice job dumbfuck.
>>18881833
>>18881852

[Anonymous No.18893860]

>>18893836
Just post where he called you a nazi. I see you accusing some anon of being a samefag doing this over and over but no one actually saying it.

[Anonymous No.18893861]

>>18893849

[Anonymous No.18893871]

>>18893811
What are you talking about? The point is some autist freaks out about tocqueville and junger threads and has been doing it for months.

[Anonymous No.18893876]

>>18893860
He's literally sperging out about Hitler for no reason in the post I linked what are you talking about? Did you even read the posts I linked before commenting on them? Someone disagreed with him and his only response is
>>he wuz a twitter zoomer like me
>>then he betrayed Hitler
>You've made this criticism in every thread. It's baseless and retarded as several people have pointed out.
If you don't like him fine but why bitch about it in every thread. It's pathetic.

Now he's pulling his classic schizo shit here >>18893849 where he just quotes random posts in the thread that disagreed with him and says they're all the same person

[Anonymous No.18893880]

>>18893523
When did he get banned from twitter?

[Anonymous No.18893887]

>>18893871
Tocqueville? I don't even think I've ever seen a Tocqueville thread on /lit/. I've never read him so even if I did see it I probably wouldn't pay attention to it. I can't comment on that. My question was whether the anime samefag was actually correct that the threads were being bumped with deleted posts though.

[Anonymous No.18893902]

>>18893876
You said that he is calling everyone nazis. Now you are saying he is sperging about Hitler. You're not making any sense.

[Anonymous No.18893906]

>>18893902
>saying someone supports Hitler isn't calling them a Nazi
am I having a stroke

[Anonymous No.18893908]

>>18893887
>never seen tocqueville thread
>takes antitocqueville spergs side
You're terrible at this.

[Anonymous No.18893919]

>>18893880
Back in March or something.

[Anonymous No.18893924]

>>18893908
I've never read Tocqueville I don't have any opinion of him because I don't know anything about his views.

[Anonymous No.18893937]

>>18893924
>samefag sperging and lying
>going to admit it
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[Anonymous No.18893944]

>>18893937
>thread has literally just devolved into me arguing with a schizo that the thread has a schizo in it

[Anonymous No.18893950]

>>18893876
>sperging out about Hitler for no reason
>>18893836
>calls people Nazis for disagreeing with him
>for years
>years

TAKE YOUR MEDS.

[Anonymous No.18893959]

>>18893944
Just post where he called you Hitler anon. Then 4chan will send you a certified non-schizo version of Jungers books.

[Anonymous No.18893998]

>>18893811
No bumps or deleted bumps in this thread
>>/lit/thread/S18876391

[Anonymous No.18894048]

>>18893919
look up threads from January and February on warosu no schizos or sperging. It got really bad the month after.
>>/lit/thread/S17561784

Here is a thread with a guy sperging out and a couple anons mentioned how it was a slide thread
>>/lit/thread/S17558008

from the effort thread here (with no sperging)
>>/lit/thread/S17544025

[Anonymous No.18894067]

I’m awfully confused

[Anonymous No.18894070]

>>18893741
I don't see anyone spamming Jünger, and nothing like guenonfag. Is it possible you are wrong or embellishing?
Tell us about your mom anon.

[Anonymous No.18894079]

>>18894048
>Junger withdrew into his imagination to become an acid-dropping, toothless bete noire of the establishment for 50 years and look where that got Germany. I wonder if we could go back and show Junger, while he was waxing all superior about the Nazis, images of his country repopulated by Turks and Muslims. Maybe he'd be so "imaginative" he could even "imagine" the death of the German people and still find a way to write a pretentious essay about how the Nazis were even worse than the liberals.

Good catch. Someone is definitely sperging about Nazis.

[Anonymous No.18894093]

>>18889725
>There is a hidden territory of the state which acts as a great counterbalance to any hardening of law. Loss of this is perhaps the very source of the division of powers in liberalism.
This is buried now but I wanted to say I appreciate the insights.

[Anonymous No.18894124]

>>18894079
yet, I unironically agree with that take.
Jünger would not recognize Stuttgart or Straßburg.

[Anonymous No.18894166]

Toasting in epic bread

[Anonymous No.18894186]

>>18894079
>Why didn't he kneel?
Americans reading Junger.

[Anonymous No.18894188]

>>18876391
>degradation
lmao if these shit cultures were worth anything they wouldn't be bent over by AMERICA

[Anonymous No.18894312]

>>18894188
It's not anti America.

[Anonymous No.18894705]

>>18894067
Really?

[Anonymous No.18894962]

>>18894048
Makes it pretty certain who is behind this.

[Anonymous No.18895279]

Sad thread but maybe we can stop the autism now.

[Anonymous No.18895522]

>>18893906
What?

[Anonymous No.18895700]

>>18876391
Hm, Jünger Bros, was he gay? I just started Eumeswil and the main character is wearing a "snug-fitting" suit with "no underwear". Wtf?

[Anonymous No.18895733]

>>18895700
You need to be 18 and not a nazi larper to post here.

[Anonymous No.18895799]

God damn. I only delete bump posts to keep a slow thread clean looking. And I wasn't even the original Tocqueville poster, he got banned and then jannies tried to ban me so I kept posting for the fun of it/ out of stubbornness.
Clearly others think it's funny too because this autist is getting trolled now. And it's exactly who I suspected it was.

[Anonymous No.18896346]

>>18893876
Just stfu.

[Anonymous No.18896482]

>>18895700
No but Jünger was a bit of a dandy.

[Anonymous No.18896780]

>>18893523

when wil bronze age pervert be discus on lit?

[Anonymous No.18896989]

>>18893906
>>18894079

[Anonymous No.18898279]

>>18896780
Who?

[Anonymous No.18898930]

And the schizoposting stops.

[Anonymous No.18898947]

Where can I read about Junger’s thoughts on art and literature?

[Anonymous No.18899759]

>>18898947
Mostly in The Worker, Approaches, and Autor und Autorschaft.

[Anonymous No.18899879]

>>18891346
i don´t get how you go blindly that Junger is perfect, i´m pretty sure he had ideas which were near to the truth and some that didn´t, don´t put him on a pedestal, read more books

[Anonymous No.18899967]

>>18894079
It's an interesting quote given that these people only feed on the death of Germany. To call them Nazis is an insult to the Nazis.

[Anonymous No.18899980]

>>18899879
No one ever said that. Stop making shit up.
And maybe you should post something to prove you have read instead of larping. Very feminine.

[Anonymous No.18900033]

>>18899980
ok, tell me an idea that junger had that you don´t think he´s right about

[Anonymous No.18900201]

>>18876391
Language is merely a reflection of social standing. An older dialect will typically imply an older mindset. A rural dialect implies a certain degree of social independence that has effects both on spoken language and cultural disposition. Sophisticated or educated speech also result from their respective forms of divergence from the common standard. Different countries of highly distant nature or origin will naturally have completely different languages, yet even if you and another person don't share a single word in common, so long as you were of common mind you would be able to establish a certain degree of understanding. Likewise, if you and another are of completely different mind, even if you speak the same language, any attempt to communicate will be doomed to failure.

Language is purely subjective and ultimately just an accessory to communication. You can't degrade something that doesn't have an ideal state in the first place. The pursuit of a widespread standard is mostly the effort of a ruler trying to spread and maintain influence, as a uniform language implies a uniform society, and a controlled language implies a controlled culture. In other words if one's concern is about the "degradation" of language is about a uniform standard dissolving into subjective dialects, then they're de facto complaining about the erosion of a previous stable order into an uncontrolled one.

[Anonymous No.18900232]

>>18900033
I don't play carrion games.

[Anonymous No.18900329]

>>18900232
such a shame you don´t want to intellectually excercise your own opinions towards the great authors, it shows the poverty of your mind, your lack of spine and your tendency towards collectivization and dogma

[Anonymous No.18900581]

>>18900329
Cringe

[Anonymous No.18900596]

>>18900581
refute my argument, jungerfag

[Anonymous No.18900655]

>>18896780
He's in the thread

[Anonymous No.18900896]

"To appreciate the dreadfully simple scene to follow, it takes the supernatural setting of the Rout. Above all, it requires the welcoming nature that even mediocre souls possess at the age of twenty-five—as well as the door, open wide, of a heart that is still young."

"The innocence and experience of elemental becoming keeps youth together, and binds them together so that only the greatest shock will tear them apart. This is the strength of titanic character, it is blind towards becoming until the end."

It is worth investigating the accusations of Jünger being geriatric. It is a strange claim given that the man aged gracefully and with vitality. In his last years one can still sense a great spark for life, and a clarity of mind lost to most youth today. One does not live through a century, let alone a century at the end of time, without having some deep well of youthful strength from which to draw.

The accusations are those of a curmudgeon, one who has grown old without ever knowing or experiencing youthful becoming. It is a striving which has grown old, and so can only take from other wills, draw from them. A type of power which only destroys, and in the end lives on death.

Jünger saw this in the lemurs, the youth who had experienced defeat and never recovered from it. At such a young age it is unnatural to know defeat, and it made monsters, demons, of many of the men.

Now the same occurs, but without any of the prospects for war. Boys are expected to live as women, or priests, in a false type of service. So the striving only grows, and they live like middle aged men, those who have never become but only strive and lament their unending defeat.

One must have sympathy for the victors, the allies and enemies, as well as the routed. It is a sign of one who has truly lived, of one who is not only a mediocre soul at twenty-five, but strong and just. It is only through such becoming - one which has a certain end like death, or even titanic punishment - that he may grow old naturally. Those who never do so are like the lost son, who may never return home for there is no prodigal return for him. He must spend until not only he nut the whole world finds itself in poverty.

He wants to see Zarathustra cut the gold out from his own mouth. The nostalgia for youthful purity is a distinctive trait of the half-dead - but here it wishes for all doors and hearts to be closed off.

[Anonymous No.18900934]

>>18900329
You could have posted a response to the anon you were arguing with, but you didn't. What does that show? They saw that you are disingenuous and stopped.
You should have read The Bible, especially about the neighbours and guests. Perhaps you would have seen the emptiness of your thoughts, something worse than poverty, early enough so that you would not have to be alone.
But now you are a non-entity, stuck with an addiction to the internet, trying to drag others down to your level. Just like the trannies.

[Anonymous No.18900997]

>>18900201
There is an ideal and perfect language, even if we do not always live up to it. This is clear in the perfect sentences and poetic words which are not only formally beautiful but speak to the depth of law and time.
The formalistic can be seen in Thersites words in The Iliad, a very persuasive call to a false beauty, thus why he had to be struck down immediately. Or those who curse Achilles as a traitor - and then Nestor who knowingly reassures that there will be a return in accordance with the law. He is like a paternal figure who knows heroism is to be sacrificed, and Achilles is a central figure in this.
Homer's perfection of the word and his enduring legacy continues on because he was able to communicate the great laws which exist beyond political ideologies, eras, or technical concerns. His words speak to the foreigner and enemy almost as well as to the Greek because of these laws.

[Anonymous No.18901018]

>>18900201
>Language is purely subjective and ultimately just an accessory to communication. You can't degrade something that doesn't have an ideal state in the first place.
More specifically on these comments. Doesn't Heidegger say that language is the very core or vessel of communication? Language is the house of being, or something like that. Is there not then an ideal house? I think we all know that there is, and even in the degraded homes of today, or the completely subjective, there remains something of the ideal.
At the same time you are saying that emojis and a woman swiping away on tinder are equal to Homer.

[Anonymous No.18901130]

>>18900934
i want someone to challenge Ernst Junger, not to worship him as a (false) god

[Anonymous No.18901151]

>>18899879
>i don´t get how you go blindly that Junger is perfect
I didn’t say that.

[Anonymous No.18901158]

>>18900596
Cringe

[Anonymous No.18901162]

>>18901151
>>18901158


see this >>18901130

[Anonymous No.18901775]

>>18901162
See>>18901151
>>18899980

[Anonymous No.18901908]

Is there anything more amusing than a bunch of papered 20-something hipsters on /lit/ accusing each other of being bourgeois.

[Anonymous No.18902074]

>>18891346
Ended up leaving the thread after I posted that, apologies.
>He even criticized his alleged pacific ism and claimed he had grown an anti-war stance which is ironic since Jünger saw combat, a lot of it, in the First World War and Evola didn’t
I personally think Evola's view of modern warfare might have been similar to Jünger's if he were actually allowed to be deployed, and assuming he survived to write about it (Evola applied to fight on the eastern front in WWII but was rejected for security reasons). Can't help but agree with you here. But I doubt it would be so much the combat and existential risk as it would be wearing down of the body and faculties due to the constant strain of daily life in those situations (I think I recall Jünger saying a similar thing in Storms of Steel). My hunch is that Evola would call this aspect of military life (which he once referred to as the "barracks" in one of his books) a degrading force on the personality, and he would've then rejected that type of modern military existence. This aspect alone of modern military operations is also what forces me not to be able to see much worthwhile in it. In the end this isn't so much a misunderstanding pf Jünger as it is a clash of understandings, in this case I'd agree that Jünger's understanding of modern war is more real and substantiated for the obvious reason you mentioned.

Apart from this, I think you've mischaracterized Evola's view of Jünger based on the other people in this thread. Evola lived a relatively bourgeois life as well (I guess you could argue he "had" to considering he was paralyzed from the waist down), and as you said the anarch is fairly similar to the "differentiated man." I don't recall him criticizing Jünger for any of these points. As I said, it was primarily Jünger's retraction of statements with regard to the transcendent possibilities of war. Achieving existential states which are above the thought of life or death through direct contact with the relativity of life and death on the battlefield. That was what Evola mainly meant by "pacifism", and as I said, if Evola ever actually had combat experience, I think he would also end up with the same view as Jünger on modern warfare.

[Anonymous No.18902874]

>>18900997
Your homoerotic attraction to greek historical celebs doesn't imply anything as ideal unless you're actually god for some reason.

>>18901018
You'd have to stretch language to the most redundant extremes possible to consider it the core of communication. Even animals can communicate with us without making any explicit effort to do so whatsoever, it's called understanding and empathy. Words are extremely exaggerated in their importance, mostly by extensions of the state and those loyal to it, because words are one of the biggest tools of said state.

[Anonymous No.18903807]

>>18899879
twitter

[Anonymous No.18904031]

>>18902874
Humans communicate with language.

[Anonymous No.18904933]

>>18901130
I would be willing to do that with someone I know, but not someone disingenuous with no real interest in discussion. Besides, critique is the very form of thought of liberalism and a disaster for any sort of 'traditional' or old methods of thinking.

And this is especially important in the case of someone like Jünger, who is largely unknown in the English language and has a lot of enemies in any language. Nothing would be gained from challenging him when his ideas are very much counter to liberalism and the weaknesses of the new right.
If you were sincerely interested you could also put forward ideas of your own, and explain why you want a counter? Why do you think a counter is important for someone whose ideas are mostly unknown and without a firm ground to begin with?
It's very clear that you only want to undermine any discussion.

[Anonymous No.18904953]

>>18902874
>greek historical celebs
Is this the power of pure subjectivity?
And what's wrong with the state?

[Anonymous No.18905290]

>>18889842
Schmitt liked Rousseau?

[Anonymous No.18906072]

>>18904031
Sure, when extending the definition to the most redundant extremes possible. If you consider torture a part of language then we might not necessarily be in disagreement, but you'd still have a hard time asserting an ideal language state when it's become that general. Also the important point here is that even when it comes to the spoken word, humans tend to communicate in languageS not "language". Not all languages are equal.

>>18904953
Inherently, nothing. The case of this conversation however is that being convenient to a particular state doesn't particularly mean it's philosophically ideal unless you philosophically believe the state's (and the particular states in this question that promote and operate in the english language being idealized by IE Junger) convenience is ideal.

Basically it's not even a matter of state good or bad, but a matter of your fondness of the authoritarian strength of british-english-speaking countries in particular, which should be considered plenty far into the realm of subjective opinion. Bemoaning the butchering of the english language is essentially just bemoaning the decline of anglosphere unity and whatever else that may imply. It's, frankly, closer to a political statement than an artistic one.

[Anonymous No.18906078]

>>18906072
Correction: Not unity, uniformity. The connotations of each are quite different.

[Anonymous No.18906846]

>>18900896
>The nostalgia for youthful purity is a distinctive trait of the half-dead
Good points here.

[Anonymous No.18907620]

>>18906072
>authoritarian strength of british-english-speaking countries
One moment I'm worshipping the 'homoerotic greek gods' and the next I'm a secularist Anglo.
This is why objective language is so important, it connects to the essential, the source of man and the soul of the world.
Without this we just make things up as we go along and blindly attack without any sense of the end. The words must increase in number of attacks to make up for what they lose iat their depth.

[Anonymous No.18907744]

>>18906072
>>18907620
"and this decline and beginning is like the language expression sign representation of a living, but particular whole, which precisely becomes that whole in its effects, and specifically in this way, that, as is the case with language, from the one side little or nothing living and existent seems to reside in it, whilst, from the other, everything does. In living existence, one kind of relation and kind of substance predominates; although all others can be discerned in it, in the transition the possibility of all relations predominates, but the particular one is to be extracted, to be drawn from it, so that through it as infinity the finite effect emerges."

[Anonymous No.18907978]

>>18907620
You don't even paraphrase correctly and yet you try to lecture others on verbal acuity? Kek. As I've said, even if I used the exact language you would prefer you still wouldn't understand, as cognitive dissonance would keep you from doing so. Inserting your arbitrary perspective into subjectivity doesn't suddenly make you objective, and neither does appealing to some mortal authority.

Fellate these old men all you want, time is leaving them behind all the same.

[Anonymous No.18908400]

>>18907978
You sound like the typical zoomer who doesn't read anything.

[Anonymous No.18908468]

>>18900329
>excercise your own opinions
Why does this sound familiar?

[Anonymous No.18908516]

Let this midwit thread die already
>>18908074

[Anonymous No.18909575]

>>18908516
That explains a lot.

[Anonymous No.18911160]

Bump