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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.18817420 [Reply] [Original]

can videogames be art?

>> No.18817434

>>18817420
Yes. On the level of literature or film there are very few though. Depends what your definition of art is really.

>> No.18817436

>>18817420
ive thought too much about this. there's two sides

art: they have a unique ability to manipulate the rules that govern reality. this ability to shape a world could be used for art. possible examples include majora's mask, psychonauts, and hylics

not art: user interactivity makes them a game, closer to uno or rugby than any form of art.

also: more financially motivated than any other potential art form

>> No.18817439

>>18817420
The more video games try to be art the less they become video games and vice versa.

>> No.18817442

>>18817439
>chess and go aren't art

>> No.18817448

How can a videogame be art if everyone could play it?

>> No.18817453

>>18817448
how can a book be art if everyone can read it?

>> No.18817472

>>18817420
>>18817434
>>18817439
>>18817442
>>18817448
>>18817453
g a y

>> No.18817475

>>18817453
Not everyone can read books properly but everyone can play videogames

>> No.18817478

>>18817420
yes but cringe

>> No.18817479

>>18817475
most people cant play certain games.

>> No.18817485

>>18817420
yes, in fact, all kinds of games are art

>> No.18817510

>>18817420
It obviously comes to how you define art. I tend to agree with the idea that something isn't artistic if it draws your admiration for the sole reason of having an allure beyond the artistry of it. Like, you can admire a painting of a woman, but if you only admire it because you are horny and wish you could fuck her, then your are not drawn to it as art. Therefore, when you have a medium that innately on a non-artistic draw, like a gacha game or an fps game, then it is as artistic as any activity you enjoy for reasons beyond the artistic experience. When you have a story game that has the same effect as a book, in evoking emotions you cant quite describe, that would be a game that is also art in my opinion. The issue is then you get something like the Last of Us, which ostensibly is a game, but its artistic elements occur in cutscenes. Is it then really the game that is art? It seems more like a game that uses art to make you enjoy the game more.

>> No.18817521

>>18817420
yes but not AAA titles
(ff14 is pretty nice though)

>> No.18817522
File: 1.20 MB, 1700x1051, HAIKU IMAGINE BEING.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
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>>18817420


NOT IN THE POETICAL SENSE OF THE WORD: «ART»; MERELY IN THE TECHNICAL SENSE, AS IT PERTAINS TO «THE LUDIC ART», «THE ART OF GAME ENGINEERING», «THE ART OF GAME DESIGN», ET CETERA.

AN ART OBJECT MUST REPRESENT AN IDEA OBJECTIVELY, INTELLIGIBLY, AND SENSIBLY; A GAME MAY BE REPRESENTATIVE OF AN IDEA, MUST ALWAYS BE INTELLIGIBLE, AND IT IS ALWAYS SENSIBLE, BUT IT EXISTS ONLY IF & WHEN IT IS BEING PLAYED, NOT BEFORE, NOR AFTER, THUS, IT CONTINGENT TO THE SUBJECT, OR SUBJECTS, THAT IS/ARE PARTICIPATING IN IT; AN ART OBJECT MUST NECESSARILY BE A FINISHED ENTITY IN ITSELF, NOT CONTINGENT TO THE SUBJECT —ID EST: OBJECTIVE: VIDEOGAMES IN PARTICULAR, AND GAMES IN GENERAL, CAN BE ARTFUL CREATIONS, BUT NOT ARTIFACTS.

>> No.18817523

>>18817475
If books taking a certain skill level to properly understand qualifies them as art, the same goes for video games. The vast majority of video games absolutely cannot be simply played without prior experience or instruction, as shown when old people try to play games and cannot operate even simple controls.

>> No.18817526

>>18817479
They are still being made for the lowest common denominator.

>> No.18817527

>>18817420
Video games are games and products first and foremost, and games (like chess and go) can be artful but not art. Think of a traditional board game. There's artwork involved, a lot of thought and care went into crafting the rules and design, and the game might provide an emotional experience but does that make it "art"? Maybe, but it's cheap art made primarily for the marketplace, not the expression of an artist.

>> No.18817529

>>18817526
same as 99% of literature.

>> No.18817535

>>18817522
>... THUS, IT [IS] CONTINGENT TO THE SUBJECT, OR SUBJECTS...

>> No.18817539

>>18817523
Anon Id go one step further and claim that while video games can be easily played without thinking, it takes a greater level of intelligence to appreciate the smaller details that all come together to make the game art.
8/10 gamers just mindlessly follow objectives. 2/10 attempt to fully immerse themselves in the world.

>> No.18817542

>>18817522
How does it feel to be the smartest mexican?

>> No.18817544

>>18817420
among interactive arts, they're pretty meh desu

>> No.18817545

>>18817529
You mean books?

>> No.18817550

>>18817545
90% of literature is crappy romance novels.

>> No.18817553

>>18817550
According to...?

>> No.18817560

Yes, but the vast majority is "low art" or "commercial art".

Art requires an artist, and AAA video games have too many contributors at different levels to be art on a personal level like a novel. If there is one director with complete creative control, then a video game would be art on the same level that a film is art. So sure, something like Death Stranding (haven't played it btw) would be art.

Elements of video games can more easily be defined as art. Music, character design, story, even something like level design could be art. The degree of cooperation and shared leadership between the various departments is crucial in determining whether a video game as a whole is a single work of art.

>> No.18817633

>>18817420
Single-player games are art, since you are interacting with the artwork, which has always been a thing to various degrees. Online multiplayer games are games, since you are interacting with other people, like football.

>> No.18817634

>>18817553
books sold

>> No.18817646

>>18817560
> AAA video games have too many contributors at different levels to be art on a personal level like a novel
How many people need to collaborate on something for it to stop being art?

>> No.18817670

>>18817633
The point of art is that you don't interact with it. Painting, architecture, sculpture, etc don't ask anything from you. But with videogames you are forced to play, to win or not. How can that be considered art?

>> No.18817672

>>18817420
videogames as a construct of multiple art forms are art, however artistic merit should be largely deduced from the child components (visuals, narrative, music). videogames that focus on gameplay can be seen as 'less artful' as they focus on pure dopamine achievement.
the history and creation of chess can be seen as art, the 'meta' of it is not.

>> No.18817674
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>>18817542
Jesus Christ anon, you didn't have to go that hard.

>> No.18817677

>>18817670
kinetic arts are interactive.

post modern literature is interactive.

>> No.18817682

>>18817420
Yes. I've thought that art exhibits might have the potential to become a bit more interactive in the future, thus far everything I've come upon has fallen short of what I might call ideal, although they didn't have the luxury of being an abstract digital landscape where just about anything could go and gravity wasn't a concern. That being said they could be constructed to bring about feelings that wouldn't be easy to facilitate otherwise; perhaps I don't regard it as art in its highest form, but that would mainly be due to the fact that a lot of people have to spend a lot of time to make them presently and thus are usually under the domain of massive software corporations.

That being said, the introduction of player choice into the games does have a quality, alluded to above, that would allow for expression of the patron of the story in such a way that would be difficult or nigh impossible otherwise, like tone and timbre does in musical works; colors are used to tell a story, such as the grey dullness in Papers, Please, and tonal inflection is something that's most expediently expressed by voice actors; as >>18817510 has said it has a lot to do with how one would define art, if defined as something that allows the artist to express themselves or makes people feel, then perhaps one could start to put forth the question of a continuum by which something could be judged as "art" or "not art," with the classification being something different than within the purview of a strict binary or even finitude.

>> No.18817713

>>18817672
>videogames as a construct of multiple art forms are art
A burger is a result of multiple disciplines and techniques but that doesn't make it scientific.

>> No.18817746

I don't see why not. I think people too often make the mistake of equating art with good.

>> No.18817833

>>18817420
>18817420
Art:
Take elements from reality, shape them the way you out in order to convey ideas and meaning, boom ART.

sports or chess and other similar are not art because they don't try to convey anything, video games are art if they have a story or a point to make.

>> No.18817879

>>18817420
No shit. Stupid question.

>> No.18817937

>>18817713
what makes a burger not scientific? food/culinary science is very much recognized, science isn't some elite term only used for nerd shit.

>> No.18818011

everything in a video games as individual components and combined together is called art the only difference is gameplay/interractivity so the question should be
can gameplay by itself be art?

>> No.18818168

>>18818011
Is fighting in a virtual war more artistic than fighting in a real war?

>> No.18818218

>>18817420
no

art is not a game

>> No.18818258

>>18817436
All art involves "user interactivity." In fact, books, paintings, music, etc. are all just really primitive / bad videogames.

>> No.18818275

>>18818258
Nope

>>18817522

>> No.18818370

>>18818275
I see no argument. All art is "played," and any other conception of art is outdated.

>> No.18818395

>>18818370
You’re retarded

>> No.18818413
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>/lit/ - General Media

>> No.18818431

>>18818395
Still no argument. Do you honestly think that the use of your eyes and brain to see and understand a painting isn't a form of interaction? Why do you think a single painting produces different impressions and effects? It's because all art is interactive, the subject always plays a part in the process.

>> No.18818434

>>18817420
We talk about books here sir

>> No.18818473

>>18818431
When you see an art object you see what there is, what the artist has made. When you play, you ACT within the game, under its rules to act out the game, INTERACTING with other players, if there are any. Nothing is being created in a game, there‘s no art object, no poetics (aristotelically) involved.

If playing was art in the aristotelic poetic sense (the sense meant when people talk about “the artistic”) then pretty much anything could be labeled as “art”, even life in the world itself.

>> No.18818494
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Video games are not art for a very simple reason. The better the game works, the more absorbed into it you are, the less you really think about it or experience it. The goal of any game is a kind of flow, a skillful aborption in the rules and the movement of the game, so much so that the rules and images disapear and withdrawal. The way we experience great art is basically the opposite of this absorption. The more a game is artistic, the less of a game it is. You can throw in cutscenes and disturbances to the gameplay that attempt to tell a sort of story, but this all distracts from the flow and absortion of a good game. Tetris is perhaps the greatest video game ever because the absortion is so absolute you couldn't even explain the specifics of the block shapes or how they fit together to someone but it clicks entirely once you begin playing. The more artistic a game is, the less of a game it is. The less "fun" it is.