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/lit/ - Literature


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[ERROR] No.18799926 [Reply] [Original]

Don't get me wrong, I love classic lit and it's obviously superior quality/IQ compared to even the best anime but still, it just doesn't affect me on the same emotional level where I get hype, cry, and get obsessed with the story like how anime makes me feel.

I used to be embarrassed about this fact but now i'm accepting it desu, can't help what you like to consoom.

>> No.18799936

>>18799926
They fulfill different purposes, I love both. That being said, if you want to read books which are like anime, people say Brandon Sanderson writes like that.

>> No.18799941

I like books more than manga but the manga I really like I like more than the books I really like. It just is what it is and you’re not a freak for it or anything if that’s what you’re getting at.

>> No.18799947

>>18799936
Funny enough I don't really like Sanderson books or other YA, they basically make me wish I was watching an animated series of them instead.
Things that should be books should stay books and things that should be anime should stay anime. Gotta utilize the strengths of your medium.

>> No.18799948
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>>18799926
>can't help what you like
wrong. recognize the value in something then pursue the tangible value rather than the frivolity that is a moment of second hand emotion about an illusion of a topic.

>> No.18799962
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>>18799926
I just enjoy anime booba too much. If Dosto had some descriptions of booba I would have a way easier time.

>> No.18799977

>>18799926
What anime would you recommend to a newbie?

>> No.18799985

>>18799947
What kind of anime do you tend to gravitate to and do you also like movies or live-action television series?

>> No.18799994

>>18799962
Sonia' feet scenes helped

>> No.18799997
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>>18799926
anime genuinely fucking sucks besides a few rare exceptions
i see both modern anime and marvel capeshit under the same mass produced media umbrella

>> No.18800007

>>18799977
Haibane Renmei

>> No.18800013
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>>18799926
Well done. Your brain is now rewired to require illustrations to enjoy reading. One step closer to artificial aphantasia.

>> No.18800018

>>18799926
I have the same thing, only with normal human interaction and sex with my girl.

>> No.18800022

>>18799977
Idk mane depends what you like, the go-to answer used to be Attack on Titan but then the manga had the worst ending i've ever seen in fiction so that's out the window.
>>18799985
I like pretty basic stuff I guess, my faves are Gurren Lagann, Madoka and the Monogatari series, hbu?
I like some older movies but for some reason cannot stand modern live action TV, there's something about the way the dialogue is written or something that makes me puke.
>>18799997
Eh, I feel like anime isn't great on average but there's still more variance and creativity than blockbusters, seeing as manga is a very individual endeavor like books and most are fairly faithful adaptations.

>> No.18800050
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>>18800022
>but there's still more variance and creativity than blockbusters
Not really, most anime follow a very tired and boring formula, using the same character archetypes, plots and worthless drama that relies on audience stupidity.
It's essentialy all the same shows but the girls change hairstyles and costumes.
The kind of anime worth watching gets released once every two or three years, I haven't even watched anything since 2018 since it's all so formularic and trash.

>> No.18800058

>>18800050
I don't really watch seasonal so maybe my impression of an "average" anime is skewed.
What's the few you consider worthwhile then? I'm betting Lain is going to be in there lmao.

>> No.18800105
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>>18799926
At this point books have almost totally eclipsed anime and manga as the main form of media I like, probably for the better as very few anime are "worthwhile". But I know what you mean, I still feel like it's so much easier for an anime to hit me emotionally than a book. Probably just my baby brain reacting to all the sounds and colors and music and shit.

>>18800007
Seconded, probably my favorite TV anime ever. Excellent music, comfy atmosphere/setting, emotionally resonant, and isn't totally overwrought and hamfisted like some other "deep" anime. Wish my friends would give it a shot but most of them only watch shonen, recommended it to my Lainfag friend but I don't think he ever watched it.

>> No.18800110

>>18800022
>Monogatari
Originally a book series just FYI.
>hbu?
I’m not as into anime as I’m into manga.

>> No.18800129

>>18799926
I only like the popular anime series that everyone likes such as Hunter x Hunter, Jujutsu Kaisen, Samurai Champloo, etc. The "intellectual" anime series are always shit.

>> No.18800132

>>18800022
>the manga had the worst ending i've ever seen in fiction so that's out the window
Filtered and confirmed some of my biases.

>> No.18800179

>>18800105
Yeah I know its just monkey brain like colors and sounds but it still gets me. I think it's actually the music I miss more than the visuals with books.
>>18800110
Yeah ik it is and okay what's your favorite mangos then?
>>18800132
Come on its almost like it's deliberately bad, had to wipe it and post-timeskip from my mind to still enjoy pre-timeskip.

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>>18799926
What?

BANIME NAAAOOO

>> No.18800332

>>18800179
>what's your favorite mangos then?
Tokyo Ghoul and Vinland Saga are tied for my favorite.

>> No.18800352

>>18799926
Any anime that I can watch on YouTube? Kinda like Vinland Saga or Cowboy Bebop. You can watch them on YouTube

>> No.18800359
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>>18800058
Shigurui, Samurai Champloo, Miyazaki movies, LOGH(it's still overrated I think and pacing sucks), Mononoke(Medicine seller), Kaiji....
Those are the ones I remember at the moment and which I would say stand above a lot of the trash.
Oh yeah and Kemono friend, but that's mostly due to my abnormaly high levels of testosterone.

>> No.18800360

>>18799962
>that subtle nipple outline on the booba
Marvelous. Gigantic anime tits really are one of the crowning glories of western civilisation.

>> No.18800388

>>18800360
>western civilisation.
???

>> No.18800697

>>18800388
Animation is an European art form

>> No.18800909

>>18800105
I think Lain is the most overrated of the ABe trilogy honestly. Haibane is beautiful, Texhnolyze is unironically a work of art, and Lain, although it has an interesting atmosphere, didn't hit me nearly as hard as the other two.

>> No.18800924

>>18800909
For me its Texh I don't get desu, got 9 episodes in and it was just badly animated mafia blokes killing each other.

>> No.18800962

>>18800924
Yeah this is a common criticism and it's understandable since the mafia subplot bores a lot of people. For me the OST and atmosphere largely compensated for the awkward-looking early 2000s digital animation, and the ending (last five episodes or so) is the best thing I've ever seen in the entire medium. The characters are also great (Yoshii is often memed on /a/ but Doc and Onishi are the most interesting imo). I would recommend you give it another try just in case.

>> No.18801258

What works of literature are like anime? Asking as a weeb wanting to get into reading.

>> No.18801434

>>18801258
The Mahabharata, especially if you like Type Moon

>> No.18801467

anime is mind-numbing trash. if you watch it, know that I am more intelligent than you.

>> No.18801581

>>18800050
One of the biggest complaints I have about anime is that its writers can't tackle issues from a non Japanese perspective. Even if the story takes place in Europe or space, the character will act and speak in a very apparent Japanese way. It's even more frustrating when entire plot points and conflicts only exist because of this ultra Japanese specific Faux pas.

>> No.18801641
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>>18799926
I was just thinking this today. I got really absorbed into the yosuga no sora anime and the end left me more emotionally impacted than anything I have ever read.

>> No.18802424

>>18799926
>it's obviously superior quality/IQ compared to even the best anime
nah

>> No.18802506

>>18799926
Because anime makes an active effort to present the beautiful to you. People don't like books because they focus on "meaning" at the cost of beauty, meaning which, relative to nonfiction, is shallow. Fiction books are for people who are filtered by non-fiction.

>> No.18802523

>>18801641
Because the fiction produced by books is garbage. Books are BORING. The ability for an author to write beautifully is EXTREMELY rare.

>> No.18802681

>>18799926
>Don't get me wrong, I love classic lit and it's obviously superior quality/IQ
There is nothing high IQ about reading fiction. The only true intellectual exhertion I could see someone would need in order to get it is to know a language. Other than that, complex mental operations are completely unnecessary. This idea that fiction is high IQ is a result of your environment while you were growing up always connecting books to intelligence. Added to this is the prestigious name "classic" (interest in anything historical is another artificial marker of intelligence).

Secondly, it's clearly not superior in quality to you, since you just said it didn't affect you on as great of an emotional level relative to literature.

>> No.18803062

>>18799926
Rarely do anime invest me emotionally since they hit tonal whiplash constantly. While failing to use gifts the medium can bring. Books have captured me in their stories usually. It's not an IQ thing if you enjoy the stories go for it. There will be more that enough readers choosing classical novels.

>> No.18804538

>>18801641
What have you read?

>> No.18804563

>>18801641
Have you seen Koi Kaze? It's outstanding, unironically

>> No.18804569

Check out Jigoku by F. Gardner. It’s literally written like an anime.

>> No.18804578

>>18801258
The Iliad

>>18799977
White Album 2. You don't have to (and shouldn't) see the original first

>> No.18804720

>>18799977
Corpse Party, the 4 episode series

>> No.18806170

>>18799962
>>18800360
based

>> No.18806286

>>18799926
Why not just start reading books about anime? It'll only enhance your anime watching experience while you learn something new. Highly recommend Otaku Database Animals by Hiroki Azuma. There's also a bunch of stuff like Japanese history, cultural studies and Nihonjinron that you can read up on, it's genuinely interesting stuff

>> No.18807411

>>18800962
The Strugatsky Brothers' Doomed City reminds me a bit of Texhnolyze

>> No.18807425

>>18806286
The only reason you like that stuff is because you're a weeb since it's just critical theory of media. It's the equivalent of reading Baudrillard to appreciate movies more.

>> No.18807629

>>18802681
Idk I feel my brain being worked more with a good book and there's objective measures of quality you can use to see that anime obviously doesn't have as much worth, with the historical importance being only one but a big factor.

>> No.18807723

>>18804578
>WA2
Phenomenal taste fren

>> No.18808403

>>18799977
Depends on what you're into. I would recommend you try an episode or two of Cowboy Bebop, Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Serial Experiments Lain, Toradora and K-on and then make a rec thread on /wsr/ saying which one you liked.

>> No.18808797

>>18807425
I mean sure. But I don't really like the implication that I'm only reading this stuff because I like anime kek. These are still interesting topics though. If you'd like some recommendations I can give you some

>> No.18809000

>>18807425
Your point?

>> No.18809034

>>18807629
>Idk I feel my brain being worked more with a good book and there's objective measures of quality you can use to see that anime obviously doesn't have as much worth, with the historical importance being only one but a big factor.
You get as much out of a story as you put into it. You can spend just as much time researching an anime's impact on the industry as the historical importance of a book. And what are these ''objective measures of quality'' you speak of? I only hear people say that when they're too insecure about liking something they can't come up with a reason for liking.

>> No.18809242

>>18809034
>You can spend just as much time researching an anime's impact on the industry as the historical importance of a book
Effect on an insular industry is not the same as effect on civilisation.
And by objective measures consider the fact that 90% of famous anime have dogshit endings and pretty much no great literature does, so just making it to the finish line first off is a start. That plus insanely more fleshed out and human character writing is probably lit's greatest advantage.

>> No.18809341

>>18809000
That it’s not good and you only like it because you like “Japan thing”.

>> No.18809391

>>18809242
>consider the fact that 90% of famous anime have dogshit endings
Watch more anime, this meme comes from A) popular anime mostly being long running adaptations where the aim isn't to make a complete story but to keep it going for as long as possible and B) popular anime mostly being adaptations of long running manga that don't get fully adapted. Also it strikes me as just fundamentally misunderstanding the serialized nature of a lot of these series, the aim isn't a complete narrative, it's to make a story that stays entertaining for as long as possible. If you said that you preferred one then far enough, but objectively more worth? No, it's just different.
>plus insanely more fleshed out and human character writing is probably lit's greatest advantage.
Granted, although by merely being a visual medium anime has a lot of merits that literature doesn't like voice acting, visual direction, artwork, visual design, music, etc. Using this as a reason for why there are '' objective measures of quality you can use to see that anime obviously doesn't have as much worth'' is just comparing two fundamentally different mediums, acknowledging the strengths of one while ignoring the strengths of the other.

>> No.18809401

>>18809341
I repeat, your point?

>> No.18809412
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Take the lainpill

>> No.18809445

>>18809401
That the statement “it will only enhance your watching experience” is not true. How are you not getting this?

>> No.18809457

>>18809391
Enough, cease this "everything is relative bro" shit, literature is superior because it obviously is, I just prefer anime because it gives me tingles which is not an objective measure of worth.
Also
>voice acting, visual direction, artwork, visual design, music, etc
This is actually a detriment and you don't realise it, good anime voice acting is far inferior to film movie acting, good anime scores are far inferior to good classical and jazz music, good anime artwork is far inferior to good art.
All the components are mediocre at best it's the mixing that makes it fun, but it still isn't "good".
Anyway i'm done arguing this, didn't realize cultural relativism had infected this place too.

>> No.18809465

>>18809445
I'm not him and I never said it would but it definitely helps you to understand the broader context of anime, its audience and its production

>> No.18809522

>>18809465
>I'm not him and I never said it would
Then why are you asking me for my point? I wasn’t even talking to you!

>> No.18809526

>>18809445
I'm the guy you were originally talking to here >>18808797. Why isn't it true? For me and others, learning about the medium is interesting. And by learning about it, my appreciation for it only deepens. If you don't find those topics interesting that's well and good. But it's silly to think that people who research things they're interested in wouldn't be interested in those topics otherwise.

>> No.18809544

>>18809457
>Enough, cease this "everything is relative bro" shit
It is. What reason do you have to believe otherwise?
>This is actually a detriment and you don't realise it, good anime voice acting is far inferior to film movie acting, good anime scores are far inferior to good classical and jazz music, good anime artwork is far inferior to good art.
While these are all subjective, I can be fairly sure that even on your own terms this is wrong and I'll repeat my previous command to ''watch more anime''.
>All the components are mediocre at best it's the mixing that makes it fun, but it still isn't "good".
If it gives you a positive reaction, which I would argue is the purpose of art, then it is good art. Arguing on any other arbitrary basis is absurd. And I don't see how you can acknowledge that anime has a unique attribute in that it can combine these elements while also not acknowledging that this is an ''objective'' strength as opposed to the individual elements which are ''objectively'' worse. You're not suggesting that we critique individual parts as opposed to holistically are you?
There is no ''good'' art, there is art that is statistically likely to evoke a positive reaction and art that you don't enjoy and still decide to attach arbitrary value to because ''it's just good okay??'' pretending to respond positively to art you don't like is nothing but masturbation of your intellect.

>> No.18809643

>>18809412
I'd replace the GITS manga with the 95' movie, since it's much more mature, atmospheric and cerebral

>> No.18809651

There are heavily powerful emotional works, but I understand. Anime and television works much more on the frontal cortex, they also are better for quick sentimentalism, getting hype and so forth in general. I believe there’s nothing wrong with appreciating different mediums of art and having the taste for one more than another, at the end of the day, reading is not an identity just a preference in your consumption. Now I will recommend that you try some of the greats and some of the pulp authors, dudes like Clark Ashton smith, Blackwood, MR James, but also dudes like Swinburne. Baudelaire and Ovid. Perhaps there’s qualities of lit you’d enjoy if you widened your consumption.

I also respect the desire of wanting to keep literature as literature and anime as anime, I’m actually working on a theory (using data I’ve collected and various studies) more or less demonstrating that older forms of lit mostly operated on the parietal lobe, whereas most media and contemporary prose operates on the frontal cortex, this is demonstrably by the fact that data shows contemporary poetry STILL affects the parietal lobe as does older prose works, as is the common opinion that the highest levels of prose and poetry have no real distinction. Whereas things such as cormac primarily operate without the parietal lobe, whereas purely sentimental emotional writers (including the worst, like rupi) are working the other parts of the brain more fixated on emotional empathy/sympathy. I believe plainly that film and tv work better on the frontal lobe. I also believe there are works which try to hit both (such as pulp works, or works that try to go for every part of the brain like Proust or Joyce.) it’s a fascinating thing, I need to continue developing the idea.

>> No.18809664

>>18809643
Well you can't really read a film. Also the manga has lots of the author's notes in the panel margins as well as endnotes

>> No.18809667

>>18809643
People always say that the GITS movie is just a heavily condensed version of the manga but the movie leans much more heavily into identity and what makes us a person than what it's adapting.

>> No.18809669

kek really? are you autistic? honestly anime is so shallow and mind-numbingly tropey, predictable, and unlifelike that i really don't see how you could. i just like cool/pretty animation bro.

>> No.18809677

>>18800022
dude you can watch anime from 30 years ago and it feels identical outside of the artstyle differences

>> No.18809682

>>18801581
don't mistake anime tropes as being 'japanese perspective' you retard. it has nothing to do with that. and all media does this. you never see anyone adopting the perspective and norms of another place. they are incapable and the audience wouldn't like it.

>> No.18809683

>>18809651
Pretty cool idea, make sure to post it on this board once it's fully formulated.
With diagrams preferably.
>>18809669
I am in fact, literally autistic.
Maybe that ties into anon's brain theory.

>> No.18809685

K-on turned me into a sobbing mess, no other piece of art has affected me emotionally the same that show about five cute moeblobs playing music.

>> No.18809715

>>18809669
>>18809683
i felt emotional from anime when i was a teenager who hadn't seen any. past that you have to be braindead to keep being guided into shallow emotion by such repetitive, dull writing.

>> No.18809721

>>18809669
>shallow
>tropey
>predictable
Not really. True, there's a lot of anime that fall into those trappings, but not all of them. You shouldn't be judging entire mediums, only the various trends within them. Anime has actually produced a good few "intellectual" and "artistic" works, you just don't hear too much about them since they're usually not too mainstream, save for maybe a few.

>> No.18809727

ITT: ''TROPES = BAD''

>> No.18809740
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>>18809715
Finally, a good time to use this meme

>> No.18809761

>>18809677
>30 years ago is the 1990s
Ok try 40-50 years ago. Shit I feel old. 80s' anime is dangerously kino. People who've never even seen it feel nostalgia looking at stills of it.

>> No.18809771
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How does this hold up?

>> No.18809819

>>18809771
Pretty well, but Kanashimi no Belladonna/La Sorciere, Tragedy of Belladonna should be added

>> No.18809825
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>>18809771
Royal Space Force is a masterpiece.

>> No.18809829

>>18809721
Compared to literature or nonfiction? No. It's, at best, style and listing references like a child. I like anime as mentioned but don't make it more than it is just because you like it. Hate it when people do that shit, weak-willed losers. I guarantee I know about them because I have hunted for anything of substance. The only 'substance' I have found is certain aspects of a series, often series that are not memed as good or deep (as those are largely trash from that perspective), that on closer inspection are still a surface-level pretence. Something that is there without knowledge or depth purely to be an effect (for style). If you probe deeper you find the writer's thought process begins and ends with trying to make a reference he doesn't understand to add stylistic weight rather than developing a coherent thought or philosophy which you might expect.

>> No.18809833

>>18809771
How are any of these /lit/? Because they're ''deep'' and ''adult''?

>> No.18809835

>>18809544
>>18809829
The duality of man
Who will win in OP's heart?

>> No.18809837

>>18809727
If all you've got are tropes and nothing else, yes.

>> No.18809856

There are too many posts about anime on /lit/. I say, please, take the discussion you have here to a board that properly fits the subject.

>> No.18809867

The problem with /lit/ folk saying there's much more good literature than anime is that there's also just much more literature than anime. Literature has been written for thousands of years, anime's been around since the 40's. There's also much more dogshit literature than there is dogshit anime purely because there is much more of it.

>> No.18809869

>>18809856
Unfortunately /a/ will kick any thread that is even slightly crossboardy

>> No.18809909

>>18809829
>calls me a child and a loser
>throws a fit because he has watched like 5 children's shows plus Eva and not found any deep commentary on Hegel
What I'm saying is that you shouldn't flaunt your ignorance. You clearly only watch modern or mainstream anime and have a rather shallow, stereotyped view on the medium as a whole, which is quite unsubstantiated outside of popular trends. Comparing it to literature and non fiction is childish when they're barely comparable as is - everyone knows that literature can be incomparably more in depth on most subjects, especially that of philosophy. Animation is a visual medium - watch something like Angel's Egg, Kanashimi no Belladonna, GiTS 1995, Metropolis or some 70's arthouse anime. It sounds to me like you want to watch literature instead of read it if that's what you seek in your visual media.

>> No.18809926

>>18809771
It doesn’t. /lit/ is literature. None of this is literature, by definition. It’s not even particularly pertinent to literature. Take Aku no Hana for example. The only thing /lit/ about it is that the kid mentions Baudelaire by name a bunch. That’s all. This is stupid.

>> No.18809931

>>18809909
Not him but it always annoys me when people try and postulate about how deep anime like Ghost in the Shell are when they're pretty simplistic explorations of their given themes. Anime works much better as a vehicle for communicating a theme in an interesting way than communicating a theme that is itself interesting. Presentation is far more important than content in this medium.

>> No.18809939

>>18809926
Isn't the Aku no Hana kid's entire schtick that he's a pretentious retard who doesn't know what he's talking about as well?

>> No.18809948

>>18809867
Anime isn't getting any better though, in fact it is dying quite hard

>> No.18809955

>>18809931
The problem there is not that anime and manga is incapable of having a theme that is itself interesting. It’s that the medium necessarily reduces it. In a novel, you can pretty much present any idea as you want and the appropriate audience can be sifted through until their eyes meet the pages. That’s not how it works with manga for example. If you made a super high brow manga that was extremely interesting in itself, the anime and manga community would totally hate it. They’d probably rag on it, talk about how it was shit for all sorts of reasons. In fact, that’s happened before. What you’re talking about is casting pearls before swine. That’s just how mass media products, and they are products first and foremost, tend to be.

>> No.18809965

>>18809939
No. And I would know because I just finished the manga last week.

>> No.18809978

>>18799926
>she doesn't imagine what she's reading as an anime her head
idk what to tell you sis

>> No.18809986

i’m convinced that the appeal to anime is entirely sexual, but i’ve never watched any. why else are all the anime pics posted here of (usually little) girls. the emotional appeal seems like a pretence for perversion. please prove me wrong

>> No.18809988

>>18809978
This is the only way I can read fantasy books desu

>> No.18809994

>>18809931
... Which is what that movie does. It's 95% presentation of theme and art. Granted, it's not Angel's Egg. But as you said yourself, interesting presentation of a theme is more important than the actual communication of that theme, and GITS does that pretty well. Yes, there's some rather non-subtle musings on the Soul and identity, but these are ultimately just questions that are given no definite answers. They give context to what the movie is trying to convey with its visual presentation, but they don't limit it, if that makes sense.

tldr I disagree

>> No.18810005

>>18809994
Disagree on your opinion of GITS, not necessarily the rest of your post*

>> No.18810019

>>18809955
>In fact, that’s happened before.
Which one?
>The problem there is not that anime and manga is incapable of having a theme that is itself interesting
You could raise ideas that are interesting in themselves, like the example I brought up before Ghost in the Shell, but this will only be interesting to you if you've barely thought about it and once you find literature about it, especially non fiction, you'll realise how a two hour movie or a four hour TV series just can't match the level of depth that concentrated prose can. Nor should it, it's a different medium and should strive for different things. The only possible thing advantage that anime has in this department is making life lessons we all already know we should be following more persuasive through its unique attributes.
>>18809994
If you're saying that themes can inform the presentation I would agree with you, I just don't think themes are an end in themselves with anime like they could be in literature.

>> No.18810023

>>18809965
I saw the anime, I'm pretty sure he goes on a monologue about it.

>> No.18810076
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>>18809986
The moe obsessed otaku arose from a disillusionment with the idealized Japanese male salary worker who works hard in school, gets a high paying job and a beautiful wife. The pull of cute little girls comes from a want to escape this and live vicariously through the innocence of characters who clearly haven't had to deal with male or adult pressures and live vicariously through them. Moe love is essentially the symbolic urge to become a little girl. Of course, with sexually repressed societal rejects there comes a lot of sexual wish fulfillment, but it isn't inherent to it.

>> No.18810077

>>18810076
I just realised I wrote ''live vicariously'' twice in the same sentence.

>> No.18810085
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>>18810076
Based Sakurachad
That's kind of the appeal for me with escapism and anime in general but not specifically with little girl shows