/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18777014]

>1 coat = 20 yards of linen
dropped

[Anonymous No.18777063]

>>18777014
The exact point is that 1 coat =/= 20 yards of linen. You did a commodity fetishism. You did a bad reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.18777175]

>>18777063
Is the labour transformation supposed to imbue the product with social significance post hoc? I don't think that follows.

[Anonymous No.18777195]

>>18777014
Filtered

It’s an economics book. Dont worry about the rest of the “social” stuff right now, just learn the economics he’s talking about.

[Anonymous No.18777196]

>>18777175
Not post-hoc but the productive forces at work in turning 20 yards of linen into a coat are of a social and material nature, yes

[Anonymous No.18777202]

>>18777195
>it works out, just trust me

[Anonymous No.18777214]

>>18777196
>a social and material nature,
So what? why is Marx's ontology on these matters more important than say Plato or Nietzsche?

[Anonymous No.18777236]

>>18777214
I’m not going to justify the value of Marx’s theoretical contributions to you if you’re not willing to go so far as even engaging with his critique at all.

[Anonymous No.18777241]

>>18777202
Oh I dont think it actually “works out” bc the LToV is a hige cope, but you still have to read it in order to understand what center-cut modern socialism is about, what its fundamental assumptions are, and what specific problems it’s trying to address. Not only that, but the first part of Capital is just a quality, reasonable explanation of how you get logically from independent production to currency exchange, and the value abstractions that occur along the way.

[Anonymous No.18777401]

>>18777236
If it all it takes to stop Marxism is to be ignorant of him; I'll take ignorance. I don't want read your shitty books from the 18th century that are irrelevant to the 21th century

[Anonymous No.18777430]

>>18777401
Okay buddy that’s your prerogative. I would personally never boast about my intellectual laziness and general lack of curiosity, but maybe that’s strange of me.

[Anonymous No.18777584]

>>18777401
>If it all it takes to stop Marxism is to be ignorant of him; I'll take ignorance.
That won't work. What would work is understand what he meant, and criticize it, in a coherent manner. But we both know, that you are not at that level.

[Anonymous No.18777586]

>>18777430
I mean, son, nobody would ever ask if you're smart because everyone knows you're fucking stupid. When you say, "I'm a communist' everyone already knows a fucking loser that you are, nigga.

[Anonymous No.18777593]

>>18777584
Fuck Marx and fuck communism.

[Anonymous No.18777596]

>>18777241
>LToV is a hige cope
From Adam Smith, to Anwar Shaikh, it's not.

[Anonymous No.18777600]

>>18777593
Okay i submit. Don't forget to take your third vaccine shot.

[Anonymous No.18777653]

>>18777401
>18th century
/pol/ at its finest

[Anonymous No.18777661]

>>18777593
but without socialism it's the same but more poor and no literacy or healthcare

[Anonymous No.18777716]

>>18777653
lel based

[Anonymous No.18777740]

Surplus labor is just the product of the boss's labor. No I will not expand.

[Anonymous No.18777755]

>>18777740
to the guillotine

[Anonymous No.18777760]

>>18777063
You can exchange 1 coat for 20 linen but that doesn't mean these things are the same. You're retarded.

[Anonymous No.18777766]

>>18777593
California neoliberals are so totally commie amr gueis

[Anonymous No.18777788]

>>18777755
Sorry, guillotine artisan Francois Garçon went broke due to industrial competition, what do you think about buying this exclusive iGuillotine for 9999,99$ instead? It even comes with a cool t-shirt, to per everyone know that you're a revolutionary!

[Anonymous No.18777798]

>>18777788
let everyone know*

[Anonymous No.18777871]

>>18777740
>Surplus labor is just the product of the boss's labor.
>Elon musk produced value worth billions of dollars.

[Anonymous No.18777878]

>>18777760
Filtered

[Anonymous No.18777882]

>1 coat = 20 yards of linen

[Anonymous No.18777925]

this whole thread is an embarrassment to economic thought, except for the one guy who pointed out to me that the labor theory of value is persistent despite being wrong. Every single one of you, socialist, liberal, libertarian, or whatever, needs to be better informed on all of this, and so do I. But for fuck's sake, stop approaching this discipline wrapped up in your ridiculous, tribal, primitive preconceived notions. Whether you like the current system of economic organization or not, you need to understand what it is and how it got there, and there is no single thinker or even a single tradition of thinkers who has all the answers. If you dont actually read around, and especially if you try to bypass the mathematical side of economics, which even for the Marxist and the Austrian is inescapable in terms of price discovery, organization, efficiency bounds, etc. (since all human activities happen on a nonzero quantitative timescale) then you are nothing but just another simpering, whiny normie flailing about in a darkness of self-chosen, self-complacent ignorance. Do better, all of you, and do better, me-- do better all of us together.

[Anonymous No.18777937]

>>18777014
I'm no tailor but I bet I could make a coat with only 10 yards of linen.

[Anonymous No.18777961]

>>18777593
Why are you posting an image of America to dunk on socialism?

[Anonymous No.18777988]

Marx was only right about guns and jews desu

[Anonymous No.18778001]

>>18777925
This is the most retarded reply in the entire thread

[Anonymous No.18778002]

>>18778001
K

[Anonymous No.18778004]

>>18777878
You were filtered from reality the moment you decided Marx was someone you should take seriously

[Anonymous No.18778022]

>>18777766
cry

[Anonymous No.18778036]

>>18777925
I respectfully disagree. I don't need to be informed on economic theory bullshit. Money printer goes brrrr and line goes up. That's all I need know and it serves me just fine.

[Anonymous No.18778051]

>>18777241
Just read Karl Marx and the Close of His System by Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

[Anonymous No.18778059]

>>18777925
>Expects me to read all that
Fuck Communism. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.18778066]

>>18777925
>mathematical side of human action
Actually read Menger, Mises

[Anonymous No.18778086]

>>18777871
Yes, through crazy amount of mental work, sheer luck and boldness, carrots and sticks for his workers and managers he created bilion dollar industries. He was even close to bankruptcy many a times.

[Anonymous No.18778090]

>>18778059
upvote my epic political
compass fren

[Anonymous No.18778116]

>>18777925
you are getting there anon, you've already figured out that if everybody thinks they and their tribe are correct, then nobody's thinking they are correct means anything in and of itself and everybody should be self-critical and willing to learn

now you must reach the next level of enlightenment: learning that only you and maybe 0.2% of the population are capable of comprehending this and acting from it

protip: for a while you're going to be applying this epistemic modesty to yourself even on the subject of why others are incapable of understanding epistemic modesty, catching you in the loop of thinking to yourself, half unconsciously, "but come on! i'm not some kind of genius for understanding that i don't know what i don't know! we're all better than this! maybe if i just try once more, they'll experience the same self-catalyzing process of realization that led inevitably to my own epiphany!" depending how nice and naive you are, you can spend years here spinning your wheels trying to herd cats.

save yourself time, give up and realize the other 99.8% is regurgitating shit they saw on youtube based on how it makes them picture themselves being accepted by a group they like

[Anonymous No.18778129]

>>18778116
>>18777925

[Anonymous No.18778176]

>>18778129
Im not a leftist so I dont care about this

but I do care about actually knowing what production is before I start making wild and universal claims about how it should be distributed
>>18778066
will do, is there anything shorter than the entirety of Human Action? I will read it if I have to. My major objection to what I have heard of Mises is that the "mathematics" he is arguing against is just systems of dynamical equations, as far as I know he was never exposed to graph theory, category theory, or other methods of choice modeling over discrete entities which we have now.