Calling on all Christcucks Pt. 2

[Anonymous No.18732489]

>Through no fault of their own they were born into the wrong culture where they got the wrong theology, and they missed the revelation. There are 1.2 Billion people in India at this moment with most being Hindu, so their polytheists. In Doctor Craig's universe, they are doomed. If you are praying to the monkey god Hanuman, you are doomed. You will be tortured in hell for eternity.
https://youtu.be/vSdGr4K4qLg?t=143
Please debunk this point and feel free to do so with the rest of the video if you so dare.

[Anonymous No.18732508]

Also refrain from attacking Sam Harris directly by mentioning his meditation app or any other personal details for that is not relevant to this discussion. Refute the point!

[Anonymous No.18732533]

>>18732489
There's only one answer.
>Baháʼu'lláh taught that religion is revealed in an orderly and progressive way by Manifestations of God, who are the founders of major world religions throughout history; Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad are noted as the most recent of these before the Báb and Baháʼu'lláh. Baháʼís regard the major religions as fundamentally unified in purpose, though varied in social practices and interpretations.

[Anonymous No.18732683]

>>18732533
Where is this from?

[Anonymous No.18732687]

>>18732489
Sam Harris can come up with a better Jewish wetlanschauung than Jesus with facts and logic and pulpil and I will gladly put a faggy bumper sticker on my prius tesla Bidenmobile when I hope on to the self driving highway listening to his temple of NPR.
Get rekt christkeks

[Anonymous No.18732688]

>>18732489
If the Bible is real, 99.9% of people are fucked. Christian or not. The Christians who actually have faith are a non existent minority.

[Anonymous No.18732705]

>>18732489
This debate was hilarious, Harris answered any question WLC had with
>well why did God do all those mean things
What a dumb fucking jew

[Anonymous No.18732753]

>>18732489
Being born in the "wrong culture" doesn't absolve them of their original sin. They yet have a debt to be paid. Not knowing about it a debt doesn't absolve one of it.
>missed the revelation
They didn't miss anything. If all humans are descended from Adam and Eve as many Christians believe then they would have had ancestors that knew.

[Anonymous No.18732785]

>>18732683
A main doctrine of the Baha'i faith.
https://www.bl.uk/sacred-texts/articles/an-introduction-to-the-bahai-faith

[Anonymous No.18732823]

>>18732489
Predestination is true and those who aren't saved are p-zombies.

[Anonymous No.18732830]

>>18732489
There is considerable debate about these points in Christian circles. My guess, based on my knowledge of God and the Holy Fathers, is that they will eventually be saved one way or the other. Also, nobody "goes to hell" until the Last Judgement, and Christians are encouraged to pray for the souls of every human being until that time, which does certainly count with God. There are plenty of instances in the Old Testament of God at least appearing to change his mind when a faithful person begs him to do so for mercy's sake.

We Christians are pretty strictly forbidden from judging others in relation to ourselves. St Paul tells us to discern right and wrong within ourselves and within the Church, but we are not to go around speculating on who ends up in hell and who doesn't. We must follow Christ's commands and pray frequently for those who don't. St Isaac the Syrian says

>What is a charitable heart? It is a heart that is burning with charity for the whole of creation, for men, for the birds, for the beasts, for the demons — for all creatures. He who has such a heart cannot see or call to mind a creature without his eyes becoming filled with tears by reason of the immense compassion that seizes his heart, a heart that is softened and can no longer bear to see or learn from others of any suffering, even the smallest pain, being inflicted upon a creature. This is why such a man never ceases to pray also for the animals, for the enemies of the Truth, and for those who do him evil, that they may be preserved and purified. He will pray even for the reptiles, moved by the infinite pity that reigns in the hearts of those who are becoming united to God.

and as Scripture tells us, the prayers of the righteous can accomplish much. Therefore we are called to be advocates for all mankind before the Divine Mercy, understanding that we alone deserve punishment, because we alone among all creatures are vile, despicable traitors and rebels before God.

[Anonymous No.18732870]

>>18732823
This is the only answer, but I would suggest that besides p-zombies, there is another class of sentient being - God incarnations. Matthew 25:45. This might include all of the great figures of the Bible, but many others who exist to help and guide the predestined.

[Anonymous No.18732883]

>>18732753
>They yet have a debt to be paid. Not knowing about it a debt doesn't absolve one of it.
So god is the robot in this meme? Nice

[Anonymous No.18732895]

>>18732883
Given the circumstances, he might as well be.

[Anonymous No.18732904]

>>18732870
This is why I respect Calvinism and Islam. They came closer to solving theological problems like this than anyone else. There's a brutal honesty there.

[Anonymous No.18733815]

>>18732489
Nothing to refute here. His argument is literally "It doesn't make me feel good about myself that I might be doomed"
>"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:14 (NKJV)

[Anonymous No.18733854]

>>18732489
>Refute this
No, he's got it right. Those people ARE wrong.
He's making an appeal-to-shame to coerce Christians into relenting so as not to offend Hindus. I'm sure Harris would have no problem saying the pre-scientific people were also born into the wrong culture.

[Anonymous No.18733860]

[Anonymous No.18733868]

>>18733815
His argument is more along the lines of: "why would God devise His creation so as to lead to the mass majority of His children suffering infinitely (disproportionately) in Hell, forever, without escape, despite His great mercy and love, keeping in mind that souls cannot repent while they are in Hell, or change their minds (thanks, added dogmas)." It is so easy to enter Hell; even idle words will condemn you, in the toll houses. Little things. Human things. His expectations are such that very few enter Heaven, and Satan avenges himself against God.

The better question is- when does the madness stop? How many people in Hell until it becomes unfair? What if only one man enters Heaven? Can you say that such a conception of God is alien to His mercy? Or is it just an "emotional non-argument." As if you, fellow Christian, have no emotions.

We are so little, and God so great. We do not deserve the punishment that human minds have devised for us. But the church would not be so universal and influential if it did not teach this.

Not that there are not Christian answers to these. But the church (the hierarchy of men, not the universal community of Christians) doesn't teach them.

[Anonymous No.18733889]

>>18732489
>If you are praying to the monkey god Hanuman, you are doomed. You will be tortured in hell for eternity.
No. You will be tortured for eternity in hell if you reject Christ in his second coming. Why do atheists always make arguments with a complete misunderstanding of scripture?

[Anonymous No.18733890]

>>18732705
Sam is a performer and that's his only trick.
>The Bible is wrong because it does not align perfectly with the distinct worldview of an early 21st century public Jewish intellectual STEM educated liberal """scientist""", ie me.

[Anonymous No.18733900]

>>18733860
>man in the sky
>needs money

[Anonymous No.18733909]

>>18733868
It's funny that such a god is indistinguishable from a misaligned AI.

[Anonymous No.18733919]

>>18733868
>God doesn't exist because I don't like how he does things
God is Wisdom itself, Harris should renounce his pride, thinking he knows better than God himself. The only madness is our own sinful action, which spit on God's free gift of Grace.
If the fish in your fish tank kept nagging you about how everything you do for him is wrong you'd get another fish. Through his Grace, God forgives our sins even if we don't deserve it.

>How many people in Hell until it becomes unfair?
As many as God decides.

>We do not deserve the punishment that human minds have devised for us.
We deserve everything God decides we deserve.

>>18733860
When your father tells you as a child to not only eat candy all day, he does it out of love, even if that's not obvious at first.

>>18733889
>>18733890
This

[Anonymous No.18733925]

>>18733860
>invisible man living in the sky
No one has thought this since bronze age Jews. The Christian view of God has always been extremely abstract and only describable using complicated philosophy. If anything Christianity suffers from being overly rationalistic, relying too much on logic and abstract metaphysics from people thinking way too much.

[Anonymous No.18733935]

>>18733919
My father didn't create a torture chamber for when I ate candy though.

[Anonymous No.18733952]

>>18733860
>alcoholic pill-popping cokehead degenerate
>rejects that which judges him
Hm, makes you think. People are so mysterious, huh? Like, there'd be no way to draw an obvious motivation here.

[Anonymous No.18733981]

>>18733925
Ah yes, kind of like how communists have their extremely abstract and complicated theories for why it all fails again and again. And I'm sure Jesus is coming back any day now.

[Anonymous No.18733992]

>>18733981
Jesus performed miracles by creating bread.
Communists cant make bread.
Great difference.

[Anonymous No.18734007]

>>18733952
If you want to play the psychoanalyzing game, religious people are deeply afraid of death. They latch onto that which promises eternal life to assuage their profound existential anxiety. As an added bonus, they get to act self-righteous and judge those who don't follow the rules they follow.

[Anonymous No.18734010]

>>18733919
>If the fish in your fish tank kept nagging you about how everything you do for him is wrong you'd get another fish.
If they could nag you, they would. Imagine being a pet fish. Because that's apparently your whole philosophy, that we are someone's pet fish who should be grateful he hasn't flushed us.

[Anonymous No.18734038]

>>18733992
And he got mad at a fig tree for being barren. Seems his miracles were unreliable.

Still waiting on his return though. He promised he'd be back quick:

“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

[Anonymous No.18734054]

>>18733919
So literally just "because I say so" but behind a bunch of purple prose.

[Anonymous No.18734058]

>>18734038
I wonder where the wandering jew lives and what he does for work.

[Anonymous No.18734064]

>>18734007
>religious people are deeply afraid of death
Everyone is afraid of death, stupid. There's more evidence that religious people are less afraid of death. Makes sense, doesn't it? Also, "death anxiety" is a weak hypothesis peddled by atheists who have no idea what being religious is like.

[Anonymous No.18734077]

>>18733919
All analogies fall flat when you realize that the father always wishes the best for his child, not justice without love.

>>18734007
Possibly. I am a religious man who does not fear death, save for the old biological aversion. Unless there is a very deep, refined, subconscious fear that only the instruments and theorems of scientists can capture. But in my mental life, in my experience, it is not there.

We all need something, it is not shameful to be vulnerable to psychoanalysis.

>>18733952
And yet you accept that which judges you. Perhaps humans are mysterious, after all. We are all sinners, from cokeheads to schoolmarms. We all have something to be judged for.

>>18733919
Harris rejects a dogma that the church created. He can't see past this dogma, and rejects God with it.

If the fish in my fish tank kept nagging? The fish is not my child, but we are creatures of God, made in His very image. If we are to forgive seventy times seven, how many more times can God forgive? And He forgives not that we may fall into further depravity, but rather that we may go and sin no more. That we may be perfect. I would nudge that fish towards the right direction and approach it with the same longsuffering I prescribe to it. But God's will be done.

>We deserve everything God decides we deserve.
And I suppose you know what God decides we deserve. Or perhaps not you, but church fathers and saints. That aside, I would like to see your or their arguments; they were philosophers, too. They did not merely say "I have inspiration from the Holy Spirit, this is what He tells me:..." and "You need to believe this because I say I have inspiration from the Holy Spirit" A heretic can do that, too.

[Anonymous No.18734085]

>>18734058
His name is Krim Rosu or Krim Jacob and he goes around doing the spiritual equivalent of the hand thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry7wPktpD18

[Anonymous No.18734116]

>>18734064
Some people fear death more than others. Some people truly cannot stomach the idea that when they die they will never be conscious again, or that their loved ones are gone forever. They will accept any story which enables them to live in a delusional, ignorant bliss.

[Anonymous No.18734126]

>>18734116
How simply put, anon! How beautifully you've simplified all of humanity- you, who cannot even actually put yourself in another's head. I wonder what more treasures of knowledge these scientists will uncover- I am dying to hear

[Anonymous No.18734131]

It's crazy how many religious fags are still in the world today. It just goes to show how effective their delusions are. People are filled with pure euphoria when they talk about and read about their God. But it's a spook and they're slaves.

[Anonymous No.18734143]

>>18734131
>you guys are slaves to a spook
>y-y-yeah, I can totally stop jerking off and eating meat for a week anytime I want

I would rather be a slave to Christ than to the passions anon, at least that way I have a chance of not being a despicable criminal before my fellow man

[Anonymous No.18734144]

>>18732489
>If you are praying to the monkey god Hanuman, you are doomed.
No, they still have time to repent.

[Anonymous No.18734152]

>>18734143
>atheists are despicable criminals
You're so compelling

[Anonymous No.18734156]

>>18734064
I'm not that other poster, but death anxiety is a large driving force in humanity. Religion, reproduction, materialism, entertainment, etc. etc. Humans do a lot of activities to take their minds off of death or to ease the idea of death.

It's not really a unique idea, however.

[Anonymous No.18734157]

>>18734116
You're not special, you know. In all likelihood, you will convert.

[Anonymous No.18734169]

>>18734131
>It just goes to show how effective their delusions are.
That's a convenient way to pigeonhole 80%+ of the entire world population. Or it shows something else. But you would not dare imagine.

[Anonymous No.18734172]

>>18732533
That's not new though, hindus always believed that.

[Anonymous No.18734177]

>>18734152
Thats actually not what I meant at all. Atheists are practically sinless compared to me.

Without Christ I was completely fucking worthless trash. Now I am worthless trash under the care of the Heavenly Physician.

[Anonymous No.18734178]

>>18734169
>80%+ of the entire world population
Such a herd animal you are. You have no cause for your haughtiness about who dares to think what.

[Anonymous No.18734188]

>>18734177
>heavenly physician
So you're a taoist now or something? I guess that's based.

[Anonymous No.18734197]

>>18732489
Poos are inferior like bugs, why should I give a fuck?

[Anonymous No.18734201]

>>18734188
the Orthodox see sin as a sickness more than strictly as a crime. There is that element to it but the emphasis is on healing through grace

[Anonymous No.18734209]

>>18734197
Yeesh

Christ cleanse you of this wicked and false belief brother

[Anonymous No.18734213]

>>18734156
"Denial of death" is always observed to be simply the other half of the affirmation of life. Of course there are negative motivations, but they are also tempered with positive motivations. "Denial of death" is only dominant in neurotic people. That book was over pessimistic, and Becker started with his own conclusions. It was good when it came out, but plenty of existential psychologists have complemented his work since. Also, "denial of death" is usually cited as THE singular religious motivation, only by people who have no familiarity of the psychology of religion.

[Anonymous No.18734221]

Sam Harris is a sophist little kike, his meditation app is fucking gay, and his argument is crude appeal to emotion.

[Anonymous No.18734226]

>>18734157
Keep coping.

[Anonymous No.18734235]

Why are there still believers? Higher criticism did away with the 'revelation' centuries ago

[Anonymous No.18734245]

>>18734235
Higher criticism is a gay German meme that was discredited a decade after it was introduced. Atheists just keep recycling arguments and fawning over their "novelty"

[Anonymous No.18734250]

>>18734235
Because not everyone accepts higher criticism, or at least it’s conclusion in this case.

[Anonymous No.18734253]

>>18732489
>Calls Christians "cucks"
>Posts a jew for support

[Anonymous No.18734269]

>>18734213
>Of course there are negative motivations, but they are also tempered with positive motivations.

I wouldn't frame death motivation as negative or positive: it just is. I'm not claiming you're doing this, but I don't frame it in that light.

If someone seeks religion to quell their fear of death, that's good for them. If someone pursues immortalization to quell their fear, that's good. Well, both are good contextually, but you understand what I mean.

Regardless of this, death motivation is simply a huge factor in human life. It's there and that's it. Neither good nor bad.

[Anonymous No.18734284]

>>18734201
Then let the Physician heal us, and leave us not in Hell.

[Anonymous No.18734297]

>>>/rel/
>>>/rel/
>>>/rel/
>>>/rel/
Please leave the other boards please religion debate should be banned outside of /rel/

[Anonymous No.18734302]

>>18734297
>>>/hel/

[Anonymous No.18734331]

>>18734269
Fine, except that explanation in regards to religious conversion is too simplistic. I have never observed anybody, nor ever heard of anybody, who went, "Well, I'm afraid of death, so now I will believe in immortality." See what I mean? Because too often that's framed as a coping mechanism on the part of the converter. But don't you see, that's impossible. You cannot simply choose to believe in something.

I'm far more inclined to believe that religious people have "figured something out", rather than simply choosing to believe something new. Because otherwise you can choose to not be anxious about any number of fears. Take agoraphobia. Well, with this framework, wouldn't it be possible for these people to simply decide, "Well, I will now choose to solipsistic, hence my social fears are now gone."

So, my question is why does it work with religion? It suggests to me that it's because something about the religious view of death is true.

[Anonymous No.18734353]

Why doesn't Sam Harris apply his criteria to Eastern religions, but instead only attack the traditional religion of Europeans?

Because The Jews hate and fear Christ, and Eastern mysticism is a way to control yuppies and boomers.

[Anonymous No.18734375]

>>18734353
Because Christianity has been dominant in the West, so is the most salient religion to criticize.

>Eastern mysticism is a way to control yuppies and boomers.

I assume the irony of using this type of argument is lost upon you.

[Anonymous No.18734376]

>>18734353
>Christianity is wrong because it's not scientifically accurate
>B-b-but Buddhism is okay because it's psychologically correct! Even though I will not apply this generosity to the psychology of Christianity
Incidentally, Harris is okay with lying precisely because Jews rejected the Word.

[Anonymous No.18734385]

>>18734353
The traditional religion of europeans?

[Anonymous No.18734414]

>>18734375
What irony? Every masonic movement from the French Revolution onwerds has attacked Christianity as an enemy because it is a threat to establishing a new world order.

[Anonymous No.18734422]

>>18732753
>original sin

[Anonymous No.18734447]

>>18734143
What's so despicable about being a criminal?

[Anonymous No.18734456]

>>18733919
cringe read kant please

[Anonymous No.18734460]

>>18734375
>Because Christianity has been dominant in the West
Wow, great contribution

[Anonymous No.18734468]

Seems to be some orthobros in here. I'm a catechumen currently looking to get baptized. I'm wondering why you guys still stick around on 4chan? I'm pretty much addicted to it but plan to leave soon ad I think its mostly a lost cause and down right a spiritual attack everytime I view it so I'm curious why you guys are around?

[Anonymous No.18734474]

>>18734468
Habit, mostly.

[Anonymous No.18734497]

>>18734414
Christianity has long been used to control the masses, often explicitly collaborating with autocrats under the guise of 'divine right.' Movements like the French Revolution targeted the church because they were the equivalent of the media today, little more than sniveling quislings working to maintain a corrupt status quo.

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." Ephesians 6:5

[Anonymous No.18734500]

>>18734468
Aside from habit, I browse for stories of people's experiences as well as all sorts of arguments, information, and interesting stuff. /x/, /ck/, and a few others.

That, and trying to help out fellows. I don't know if I'm any good at it, or if my advice is catching on, but I do it nonetheless. Some people here need someone to listen to them.

[Anonymous No.18734509]

>>18734497
Are you actually retarded enough to think the French revolution financed by bankers, merchants and freemasons was a populist, underdog movement?

[Anonymous No.18734515]

>>18734509
It's always spooks and their underlings fighting spooks and their underlings. Controlled opposition

[Anonymous No.18734521]

>>18734468
/fit/ /lit/ and /mu/ are still worth it for me, you should be fine if you stay off of the NSFW boards. If it is a problem for you it would be wise to give it up though.

[Anonymous No.18734523]

>>18734509
Are you so much of a cuck that you'd support the monarchy because god said so?

[Anonymous No.18734524]

>>18734474
>>18734500
Fair enough I feel that. I'll admit some ortho posts on 4chan did help lead me to begin looking into the church but the way Christianity is treated here makes me feel like its best I just leave for now. Still good to see orthodox responses to questions though especially when people are willing to listen. The orthodox church really does clear up a lot of dogmatic problems I feel led people to atheism who grew up in a religious family to begin with.

[Anonymous No.18734542]

>>18734353
He actively misrepresents Hinduism to the West by conflating fringe beliefs to mainstream thought. I don't know what his stance on Buddhism and Sikhism is but he dick rides Jains a lot

[Anonymous No.18734545]

>>18734524
I'll be frank with you, anon. As of late, I've begun to question the validity of the church fathers and saints; it is the only way to salvage the idea that all will be saved. I do not hold this idea because of a fear of mine, but rather horror at the idea of the majority of men (living and dead) going to the worst torments for not having been perfect. And how could they have been? Every day, I grow further apart- it's all toll houses and damnation with these fellows.

But I'll always be an Orthodox. Here on 4chan, Christianity is poorly treated, but I can't blame them for it. The best thing to do is to practice patience and humility here. But we are also humans, and we need company and conversation, so that, too, is why I'm here

[Anonymous No.18734547]

>>18734497
I dont have a problem with being both orthodox and a libertarian. Some anons in here will spit their coffee at that but the two positions are consistent to me. My Christianity and the freedoms I give up to practice it are voluntary, but no point making this world worse than it has to be for the non believers.

[Anonymous No.18734552]

>>18734547
I'm sure you're a decent person. I just find it funny how Christianity is so endlessly malleable that it's compatible with near every ideology. Pretty obvious that people are just making it up as they go along.

[Anonymous No.18734587]

>>18734552
Its not so much that its malleable as that its highly, highly general. You can be a good Christian in any set of circumstances. some things, like the availability of pornography, make it harder, but at the end of the day the sphere that ideologies belong to is several steps removed from the sphere that faith belongs to. Faith rests in the heart, ideology rests in the mind, and in a pretty easily malleable portion of the mind. Most other religions are honestly like that too from what I have seen

[Anonymous No.18734627]

>>18734545
I oddly see it more as those who will reside in hell will have chosen it based of orthodox dogma. I felt orthodoxy has a more just way of looking at judgement where those who didn't know of christ are judged by the law in their hearts and having Christ save all those prior to his ressurection in hades including Adam and eve.

Prayers for the dead and God's love being a burning flame to those who hate them really makes the most sense to me that if someone has reached a point where the absolute good of all burns them its based on their own dislike of good.

[Anonymous No.18734629]

>>18734523
Are you so much of a faggots that you let the jews ruin you because they let you pick between the blue team and the red team?

[Anonymous No.18734650]

>>18734629
I am aware that elections are an illusion for the masses, just like god. I am also quite wealthy and far from ruined. Sorry to hear that being a good little boy didn't work out for you.

[Anonymous No.18734701]

>>18732489
God has no obligation to save a sinner it is by immense grace that even one of us makes it to heaven. Why God elects those he does for salvation is a matter beyond our understanding

[Anonymous No.18735023]

>>18734007
Maybe oldfags that were non-religious in their youth

[Anonymous No.18735051]

don't care. the bible still remains one of the most powerful literature in the world

>For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

[Anonymous No.18735550]

>>18732489
Pretty easy to debunk because it's not true at all. Unless by christianity you mean some heterodox nonsense.

[Anonymous No.18735559]

>>18732489
>You will be tortured in hell for eternity.
I am 100% sure this is a meme. Literally zero reason for a benevolent god to do this.

[Anonymous No.18735679]

>>18733860
I love midwit's and philistines so much. They're always the best source of entertainment.

[Anonymous No.18735929]

>>18734701
Then if God saved no one, you would not object? The only issue is that those He did not choose to save did not choose to be apart from Him, either. How can you choose that when you do not even know Him?

[Anonymous No.18736964]

>>18733860
>all of that coming from someone who worships the "grand architect"

[Anonymous No.18736983]

>>18732533
>major religions as fundamentally unified in purpose, though varied in social practices and interpretations.
This is just fucking blatantly not true if you spend any amount of time studying the "major" religions.

[Anonymous No.18738617]

>>18734422
Yes

[Anonymous No.18738633]

>>18735929
This is why we say the Akathist for the Departed, before I came across that prayer I also had a lot of trouble with this issue but Im going to try to pray it every night. The Holy Fathers assure us that prayers for the dead do have a definite effect

[Anonymous No.18739008]

>>18732489
>I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

[Anonymous No.18739233]

>>18732489
Sam Harris is such a Guenonlet.
Why are atheists such midwits?

[Anonymous No.18739539]

>>18732489
Take this shit to /his/.