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/lit/ - Literature

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18715483 No.18715483 [Reply] [Original]

Do you /lit/rarians here believe in a God?

Why, or why not?

>> No.18715488

>>18715483
I don't, religion is 100% fake. It's created too much in the image of humans to be real.

>> No.18715499

>>18715483
agnostic

>> No.18715505
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18715505

I'm a Lutheran.

>> No.18715509

>no
>maybe
>yes

>> No.18715529

yes

>> No.18715535

>>18715483
If there is a god, he should ask for MY forgiveness.

>> No.18715543

>>18715483
I believe in Allah and I obey Him in all things.

>> No.18715552

>>18715543
Mashallah, brother

>> No.18715566

>>18715483
I’m a self-identified Neoplatonist, so no.

>> No.18715572

>>18715483
Yes.
A combination of argument, direct experience, and a serious examination of the monastic Holy Fathers. You dont spend decades reciting the Jesus Prayer thousands of times a day if it does nothing to you.

>> No.18715611

>>18715483
Sure. Why not?

>> No.18715616

>>18715483
The existence or non-existence of Gods is a matter of conjecture and empirical investigation. Should there be Gods they will also have the problem of consciousness, and will not necessarily be better equipped to deal with the instantiation of consciousness nor the existence of desire.

So too is the question of hell.

A buddha in heaven is equally unattached to their desire and suffering in heaven as a buddha in hell.

>> No.18715617

no because something about dead babies and me being an ugly virgin blah blah

>> No.18715626

>>18715483
A god or god-like thing, yes.
A god that gives any thought to humans and their morality, no.

>> No.18715640
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18715640

>>18715483
Depends on how you define God.
The creator of the universe? Maybe.
The Gestalt of all life? Sure.
An omniscient, omnipotent arbiter of all that is good and just? Not a chance.

>> No.18715667

>>18715483
I think that the existence of a “divine being” is plausible.

>> No.18715723

>>18715483
All of the offered models of God suffer from various degrees of believability. Islam being by far the stupidest with Christianity not far behind.

Perhaps the best way to think about the question is to imagine what God would be like given what we know about the Universe.

>> No.18715925

>>18715483
I can believe in the concept of a God, but I don't think any gods really exist. I read Durkheim's "Elementary Forms of the Religious Life" and the idea of religion became very appealing to me from a social standpoint.
I find the fact that there is Life very curious though. And the laws and physics of the universe... It's hard to think about why things are the way that they are. Does anyone know of any books about this? I read once that the fact that there's life in the universe (us) means that there's meant to be life in the universe. Like, why should a bunch of microscopic particles come together and create an organic, independent thinking machine?

>> No.18715926

>>18715483
of course not

if god exists why do bad things happen? what kind of idiot would believe in god when kids get cancer and starve to death and get raped

>> No.18715974

>>18715483
No

Problem of evil/suffering .
Why? Why? Why?
Shitty design of human beings.
If everything is finite then how God can be infinite?
Who created God? If he came out of nothing then so too can universe.
If God works in mysterious ways then how we know God? Why call God a God then? Why worship him if we don't know him?

>> No.18715995
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18715995

No - religion is just another system of control. In all religions, although not equally, there are people that enforce it and are given power for enforcing it.

>> No.18716034

>>18715483
Yes.

>> No.18716038

>>18715488
>>18715617
>>18715926
>>18715974
>>18715995
Define the thing you do not believe in and you will understand that you believe.

>> No.18716082

>>18716038
Define the thing you do believe in and you will understand that you don't believe.

>> No.18716112

>>18716082
God's consciousness is the thing that made the universe at first, immutable laws, and the urge that makes atoms become molecules and molecules DNA - which is love.

>> No.18716123

>>18716112
Ah, so you believe in love and not in God.

>> No.18716129

>>18716123
Kierkergaard would tell you those are the same.

>> No.18716152

>>18716112
>which is love.
You mean taṇhā and duḥkha - insatiable and demonic desire might look like love to the unknowing.

>> No.18716165

>>18716152
I do not.

>> No.18716178

>>18716129
>Love is God.....because it is

>> No.18716202

>>18716178
What best describes the force that causes progenation? Force? Beauty? Lust? Hardly. Love. We are a part of the world, what drives us is what drives the world - as love is the most powerful force for humanity so too is it for the universe.

People don't appreciate how obvious this is. Could Bill Gates get a wife by force? How difficultly compared to by love? Moreover, has there ever been a major political movement in history based on the destruction of its country or always with the goal of a better future in mind?

>> No.18716213

>>18716178
1 John 4:8
>But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:16
>We know how much God loves us, and we have put our trust in his love. God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them.

>> No.18716253

>>18716165
The closest human conception of God is pure balanced equanimity, completely liberated from all emotional instability, passion, and irrational striving, He possesses everything within himself. I'm not sure why Hegelians and Christians started getting the idea that God was "love", when "love" is quite clearly irrational, possessive and often even destructive. It is driven by the baser passions which is to possess exclusively at the cost of other people or things. For example, when one loves someone or something, even if one cannot have that person in direct possession, one wills their mere existence at the cost of all that is required to keep them in existence. Extend this principle to everything that is loved and you will find it is a projected craving for existence and perpetuity. Just another illusion cast onto man by Mara.

>> No.18716257

>>18716253
Love is the permanent relation between the persons of the Trinity, and it was out of this abundance of love that all things came to be.

>> No.18716258

>>18716253
I love you, anon.

>> No.18716288

>>18716257
Your "God", out of his infinite love, will allow you and me to die, everything we know and love will dissolve into the winds of time, never to be seen again. This is because your "God" is love, not love of you or me, but love of that eternal unreachable reality that it so desperately desires (loves). That is what God loves, and that is why we are sacrificed for God in his eternal struggle to possess that which he does not and will never possess. Through God's love we are sacrificial lambs, put to the slaughter through the tumult of eternity.

>> No.18716290

>>18716253
Love is essentially other-directed in a way that equanimity can never be. Read some Kant, some Schopenhauer and then do Zen practice for about a year. You will understand that the attainments of Buddhism are basically just about surveying the inside of your skull, and you will think it is an unbelieveable miracle that any relation with the ding an sich is possible. But once you find that out, and once you find out that the correct relation to the ding an sich is pure, selfless, unconditional love, then I think you will believe in a loving God.

>> No.18716319

>>18716288
The eternity is a test and God gives you a choice, either A) Love the eternal and the Good and he will take your or B) Do not love the eternal and he will let you go.

>> No.18716334
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18716334

>On this question, the pronouncements of highly learned men are so varied and so much at odds with each other that inevitably they strongly suggest that the explanation is human ignorance, and that the Academics have been wise to withhold assent on matters of such uncertainty; for what can be more degrading than rash judgement, and what can be so rash and unworthy of the serious and sustained attention of a philosopher, as either to hold a false opinion or to defend without hesitation propositions inadequately examined and grasped?
—Cicero, The Nature of the Gods

The only reasonable option, in my view, is non-assent and suspension of belief.

>> No.18716335

>>18716290
>Love is essentially other-directed in a way that equanimity can never be.
That was implied by what I stated, it doesn't change anything else, in fact it just further confirms my statements.
>You will understand that the attainments of Buddhism are basically just about surveying the inside of your skull
I'd prefer to take lessons from Buddha himself, not your interpretation mixed with naive modern philosophy. Zen, for starters, has far more to do with discipline and equanimity than any "love of God" (which is totally foreign to Zen).

>> No.18716340

>>18715483
>Do you /lit/rarians here believe in a God?
yeah
>Why, or why not?
direct experience that I can't communicate properly in writing

>> No.18716342

>>18716334
I had this viewpoint until I had a direct experience

>> No.18716343

>>18716342
Can you tell us about your direct experience?

>> No.18716344

>>18715483
Yes, I believe Lord Brahma creates the universe, Lord Vishnu sustains the universe, and Lord Shiva destroys the universe.
To support my belief, I have reports of ancient rishis performing miracles, and I have various forms of the cosmological and ontological arguments.

>> No.18716345

Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God.

>> No.18716346

I am racist

>> No.18716378

I believe in Spinoza's "God" or something approximating it.
But that's something quire different from whatever it is people normally mean when they say God in the west.

>> No.18716399

>>18716343
I was reading The Ladder of Divine Ascent by St John Climacus, when I came across this passage.

>So then, keep running, brother athletes, and again I say to you, keep running. Listen to the cry of wisdom: "The Lord has tried them like gold in a furnace," or, rather, in a community, "and he has received them as burnt offerings into his bosom"( Wisd. l:6).Glory and eternal dominion are His, in company with the eternal Father and the holy and adorable Spirit. Amen.
>This step is of equal number with the evangelists. Keep running, athlete, and do not be afraid.

When I read that my heart was filled with fiery longing for God, and I started praying, and I could feel the prayers changing me. Looking back on my life I realized that by God's grace, I had never stopped loving Christ, and I couldn't imagine God without the richness and fullness of the Trinity.

>> No.18716420

>>18716319
Every ordinary person already clings to eternity, whether the person who chooses to keep living (and wills eternity in life), or the person who takes his own life and wills eternity in death - the love of eternity is the easy, and default, choice. I choose to love neither. I don't want eternity, I choose a full, single moment which encapsulates everything within itself.

>> No.18716525

OP here.

You guys are so fucking stupid and schizoid it's not even funny. Comparing /sci/'s answers to this board is like comparing stone markings by a chimpanzee to a PhD paper.

God, I knew I should've stuck to /sci/, I guess its true brainlets who want to appear smart pretentiously go to /lit/

>> No.18716533

>>18716525
And?

>> No.18716537

>>18716525
Only idiots talk about religion on /lit/. Knowledge anons prefer to keep quiet.

>> No.18716542

>>18716537
>he says as he unsheathes his katana

>> No.18716546

>>18716525
/his/ is the board you want for religion you dickless cunt.

>> No.18716566

>>18716537
True
>>18716542
False

>> No.18716569

>>18716542
I only jingle the hilt. The blade remains sheathed.

>> No.18716588

>>18716525
Let me rephrase my answer, "I don't believe in God because there is no scientific evidence for God's existence."
Is this intelligent now and worthy of /sci/?

>> No.18716592

>>18716546
But /his/ is full of fascists who never read scholarly material.

>> No.18716594

I don’t believe in a god or higher being simply because it would be unreasonable to do so. Believing in god is the equivalent of thinking you can pull another ace out of a deck when you already have four on hand. It would’ve been nice to have a big daddy that cares about us but nothing speaks for it. Literally nothing.

>> No.18716596

I believe that everything that occurs in life is predestined and unchangeable, so yes.

>> No.18716616
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18716616

>>18716592
>scholarly material.

>> No.18716620
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18716620

>>18715925
Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit priest, is the most well-known for making the point that
> the fact that there's life in the universe (us) means that there's meant to be life in the universe.
He describes his philosophy of the increasing complexity of life and its implicit teleology (Omega Point) in The Phenomenon of Man. The Omega Point theory was also taken up by physicists, notably Frank Tipler in The Physics of Immortality, and has (I think to a lesser degree) some similarities with Roger Penrose’s cosmology. I’d also recommend looking into Henri Bergson and his idea of élan vital (“vital impetus”), an idea he describes in Creative Evolution as a non-Darwinian explanation for
> why should a bunch of microscopic particles come together and create an organic, independent thinking machine?

Outside of Christianity, Sri Aurobindo makes similar arguments in The Life Divine, that just as matter became alive, and just as life became conscious, we too will become something else, and we can accelerate our approaching this new frontier on our existential horizon by guiding our becoming/evolution toward the eventual end of divinity (paraphrasing here, someone correct me if I’m misrepresenting his ideas).

If you’re interested in exploring this more I’d recommend looking into emergentism, and to a lesser extent vitalism and panpsychism.

>> No.18716621
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18716621

>>18716592
>>18716616
>scholarly material

>> No.18717164

>>18715483
God = Universe, and by Universe I mean the entirety of reality. Being the set of all sets, U is constrained only by itself, and is therefore not deterministic, but self-determined. Whatever U decides to be becomes true, it has free will.

>> No.18717721

>>18715543
>>18715552

Allahu akbar. May Allah swt guide us.

>> No.18717848

>>18716399
>I started praying, and I could feel the prayers changing me
What you're describing is self-hypnosis. It's like those little chants you can say to yourself that put you in a desired mood/frame of mind. I bet it felt like overwhelming positive emotion and a sense that everything is right in the world. You'd be surprised how intense the power of suggestion can be sometimes.

>> No.18717865

Believe in? No. I've never really felt anything spiritual.

Is it possible God, or gods, exist? I don't dismiss it.

>> No.18717893

>>18715483
Cognition, tautology, and truth are literally impossible without some kind of God.

>> No.18717899
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18717899

>>18715483
This universe is a dreamlike holographic manifold crystallized into what we perceive to be reality. As the illusion erodes during the process of death, the veil lifts and true reality is revealed. This is God.

>> No.18717913

>>18715483
god is real as seen in the power that he has over people.
god doesn't need to actually exist, just needs people to believe that he does.
simple as.

>> No.18718079

>>18716525
Go back to /sci/ then, and don't forget to take the vaccine on the way there, goy

>> No.18718099

>>18716525
Oh its a /sci/mpanzee feeling threatened again.
Go back to your board im sure your shitty madeup data can help you feel any less hollow

>> No.18718179
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18718179

>>18715483
God is a metaphor for the Cosmos. I believe in the metaphor as a metaphor; I think it's a valid one. So Yes.

>> No.18718323

>>18716202
>We are a part of the world, what drives us is what drives the world - as love is the most powerful force for humanity so too is it for the universe.
How do you know you aren't just projecting human desires onto everything? I don't see why there needs to anything "driving" everything. Or even if there is that this drive would be the same for humans as for the inanimate world.

>> No.18718331

>>18716334
>>On this question, the pronouncements of highly learned men are so varied and so much at odds with each other that inevitably they strongly suggest that the explanation is human ignorance, and that the Academics have been wise to withhold assent on matters of such uncertainty; for what can be more degrading than rash judgement, and what can be so rash and unworthy of the serious and sustained attention of a philosopher, as either to hold a false opinion or to defend without hesitation propositions inadequately examined and grasped?
>—Cicero, The Nature of the Gods
Extraordinarily based.

>> No.18718383

>>18715483
Lean to unlikely but we cannot know what occurs beyond reality. Unable to see what is not--if we saw nothingness we would not be seeing it--we cannot hope to understand the nature of anything. We only can understand what something is by contrast to what something isn't but lacking such a contrast for the nature of our perception and of all existent things, we are unable to truly know anything about reality. As such any claim to know of the existence of gods is arrogant delusion.

>> No.18718392

I am a God; this is not hyperbole, or exaggeration. Read my words carefully; decipher them; meditate on them; and finally, understand them. I am a living God. I was sent not by a divine, but by my own mind's eye. There is nothing about me that would surprise you; except that I am a God; a reincarnation; Do You Understand?

>> No.18718550

I am a NIGGER; this is not hyperbole, or exaggeration. Read my words carefully; decipher them; meditate on them; and finally, understand them. I am a living NIGGER. I was sent not by a NIGGER LOVER, but by my own mind's eye. There is nothing about me that would surprise you; except that I am a NIGGER; a reincarnation; Do You Understand?

>> No.18719543

I firmly believe that there might be things which are beyond our understanding, for we are just a super evolved hairless ape, thus, we can't possibly unlock the secrets of the universe based simply on our limited senses or reason.
I don't consider myself a christian, but I've found myself into the teachings of Christ either way.

>> No.18719599

>>18719543
This, there may well be a god but his nature is certainly far beyond our understanding and all our religions are most definitely utter bullshit.
That however doesn't mean you can't believe in the morals and principles written in religion. Just don't believe some dumb shit written about a schizophrenic by a bunch of ancient scholars to be a universal truth.

>> No.18719680

>>18716123
I believe in life after love

>> No.18720178

I WANT to believe in Christianity. But, its metaphysics are hard to accept and there are other philosophical problems like the problem of evil and divine hiddeness. There are also some historical problems like how Jesus seems to have preached an imminent second coming that didn't come. Even with all these issues I think it can rationally be believed.

Maybe one day I'll be able to put these issues aside and take a leap of faith.

>> No.18720195

>>18720178
Isn't your reasoning backwards, shouldn't you try to find something for which belief feels natural rather than trying to find reasons to believe in something you find unlikely?

>> No.18720201

I believe in many Gods, that Jesus was a God. That I will be a god eventually.

>> No.18720202

>>18720195
I think I misspoke. I intuitively believe that God exists, but when I look to the philosophy it feels that it's not true.

>> No.18720206

>>18720202
"God" doesn't have to be Yahweh you know

>> No.18720530

>>18719599
>his nature is certainly far beyond our understanding
Why

>> No.18720539

>>18720201
Holy shit its a Latter Day Saint

>> No.18721390

>>18718392
Aren't we all?

>> No.18721395

>>18718392
Praying for you

>> No.18721509

>>18718323
> I don't see why there needs to anything "driving" everything.
it is a logical deduction
>this drive would be the same for humans as for the inanimate world.
>I haven't thought this matter through, therefore its wrong

>> No.18721550

>>18715974
>Who created God? If he came out of nothing then so too can universe.
thoughtless non-sequitur
the material universe possesses observable qualities that disqualify as a potential first cause
that which fulfills logically deduced criteria of the first cause is what we understand to be God.

>> No.18722206

>>18715488
this makes no sense anon

>> No.18722686

>>18715483
deist i guess...for now

>> No.18722826

>>18715488
all religions are transcendental otherwise you wouldnt have a religion holy fk

>> No.18723311

>>18722826
Backwards reasoning
>assuming all religions are transcendental because you believe transcendence to be a condition for the existence of religion rather than the (much more likely) explanation that religion is simply man-made