/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18710046]

>Become an atheist and stop going to church
>But also download my meditation app!
What's this Jew's endgame?

[Anonymous No.18710055]

>>18710046
Eternal life, anon

[Anonymous No.18710062]

There isnt one, he’s just deceived. It’s sad, we should pray for him.

[Anonymous No.18710063]

>>18710046
>Implying meditation has anything to do with spirituality or religion
Uninitiated fool.

[Anonymous No.18710067]

>>18710046
Lel. I was listening to a podcast of his once (against my will) and he described a blindfolded 5gram mushroom trip in which he 'felt the holy ghost' but ignored it because he doesnt believe in God. Like what the fuck.

[Anonymous No.18710068]

>>18710062
Amen

[Anonymous No.18710069]

[Anonymous No.18710085]

>>18710063
>uninitiated
Yes, tell me about how the truckers initiated you in the rest room, faggot.

[Anonymous No.18710115]

>>18710085
Typical christcuck, incapable of thought so you immediately go to an ad hominem. Child.

[Anonymous No.18710125]

>>18710115
Oh, it's one of those. Some old faggot in a bathrobe telling you to say some magic pajeet words doesn't make you special.

[Anonymous No.18710200]

>>18710046
>"Wha- No, you can't just live a fulfilling life without the church! You must come and pay into the collection plate and follow the mandates set by our power structure!"
It's long since time to dump the corrupt sham of organized religion

[Anonymous No.18710208]

>>18710200
t. Rootless Cosmopolitan.

[Anonymous No.18710220]

>>18710046
Jews hate Christ. This is not controversial. Sam Harris wants to demoralize Christians because he has a disgusting Jewish spirit that has to demoralize and destabilize everything around him. These ulterior motives become more clear when you actually read his books and watch his interviews. He is not a serious intellectual. He does not take his own "issues" with religion seriously. It's not about philosophy, or "muh secular ethics". It's all about getting the Christians to be just and depraved as they are. That's it. Christ is the light, and (((they))) cannot stand it.

[Anonymous No.18710230]

>>18710200
I am willing to do this for Christ's sake. We are all healed together, from the newest catechumen to the most ancient and venerable elder monks, nuns, and bishops. Our humility can heal these people when they stumble, just as their wisdom and resolve can heal us when we stumble.

[Anonymous No.18710237]

>>18710067
This is good example of how he's not honestly interested in consciousness, spirituality, religion, etc. He works from an a priori assumption that there is no God, no matter what, so then anything that contradicts that axiom must be hand-waved away. Yet he calls himself a "moral philosopher". This means Harris is fucking liar, and it suggests that he actually believes in God -- he just hates Him.

[Anonymous No.18710241]

>>18710115
That's not what ad hominem means.

[Anonymous No.18710243]

>>18710062
Amen

[Anonymous No.18710279]

>>18710063
What delineates that which occurs during meditation from spirituality?

[Anonymous No.18710304]

>>18710046
it is a bit puzzling, chapter 5 of that book describes his nepal boat acid trip which is kind of interesting. he dropped out of stanford to be a guru groupie of poonjaji with other california guru groupies like gangaji, and has some amusing stories about it. then went back to stanford for the ridiculous 'neurology phd' credential he got by playing around with a fancy PET scanner. now seems pretty much into scientism. smart guy, no sense of humor, probably autistic.

[Anonymous No.18710353]

>>18710279
not the same guy you replied to, but meditation is basically just a transcendental examination of cognitive and meta-cognitive processes. It has a definite starting point: our current experience. It has a definite end point: the place where there is no day or night. That end point is not a spiritual realm, it's just the direct experience of thinking nothing. It is the starting point and ending point of thought, the fundamental ground of lived experience.

Actual spirituality is fundamentally external to us. It is God's grace reaching down to enfold and permeate us in the midst of prayer. it goes beyond what we are capable of producing in ourselves by ourselves. In fact, it requires surpassingly great humility, patience, and love for God. Notice how all three of these emotions are essentially other-directed: though we may reason, rightly I think, that we are transcendentally forbidden from accessing the ding an sich through the senses or reason, we have faith that people and God exist, that other spirits of incomparably greater worth, virtue, and excellence are really there despite our reason and our meta-cognition. This realization, and our acting on this realization through prayer, charity of material things, time and effort, taking advice and even our obedience both to God and man, the refusal of evil or self-directed thoughts, and a limited, healthy set of ascetic practices to refuse the passions, expand our spirit beyond its subjective limitations, and by God's grace, enable us to live a life outside our own skull.

At least, this is what I have understood from reading the Holy Fathers, mixed with some Kant, and several years of Zen practice. I could very well be wrong, in which case God forgive me.

[Anonymous No.18710449]

>>18710063
>Probably doesn't realise that prayer is a form of meditation

[Anonymous No.18710452]

>>18710449
I disagree, see
>>18710353
They are fundamentally engaged with different things.

[Anonymous No.18710611]

>>18710353
>this is what I have understood from reading the Holy Fathers, mixed with some Kant, and several years of Zen practice.
good mix. Add some Vasubandhu Yogacara too.

[Anonymous No.18710618]

>>18710067
In his defense it's probably unwise to convert to anything just because of a sick drug trip.

[Anonymous No.18710638]

>>18710353
>I could very well be wrong, in which case God forgive me.

[Anonymous No.18710639]

Why is it either atheist physicalism or Christianity with you retards
Plenty of people are not materialist golems yet have no interest in Christianity

[Anonymous No.18712229]

>>18710639
We call those people "useful idiots"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=f_gJYxM6cMA

[Anonymous No.18712244]

>>18710115
So this has nothing to do with the truckers then? Fair enough

[Anonymous No.18712252]

Eastern mysticism for the most part left asian nations backwards and destitute, and it's populace easy to control. It's easy to see why the jews would find it an appealing means to subdue the goyim.

[Anonymous No.18712258]

>>18712229
Retarded dogmatist

[Anonymous No.18712264]

>>18712252
>judging the value of a religion by how much it allows the populace to consoom
More proof that tradlarpers are just crypto-physicalists who pretend to be religious because it's the new edgy

[Anonymous No.18712348]

>>18712258
Hippie faggot.

[Anonymous No.18712360]

>>18712264
I judge a religion based on the standard of living it creates and to the extent it promotes the interests of it's pratitioners. Christianity has created the most advanced society in the world, while buddhists live in huts and eat bugs and hindus defecate in open streets and live in diseased hovels.

[Anonymous No.18712434]

>>18712348
Wrong, retarded dogmatist.

[Anonymous No.18712441]

>>18712360
Yes, your criteria for what constitutes truth in religion are based on material standards of technological advancement and economic prosperity; as I said, a crypto-physicalist.

[Anonymous No.18712453]

>>18712360
This is a bad metric.

t. Christian

[Anonymous No.18712457]

>>18712441
Religion must address the totality of existence, including material. Christianity has by and large fostered successful, happy and intellectually curious society. Eastern mysticism has not.

[Anonymous No.18712464]

>>18712453
How so? The closer one is to God's plan, the more he will be able to apply that knowledge to practocal concerns.

[Anonymous No.18712550]

>>18712457
>Christianity has by and large fostered successful, happy and intellectually curious society
You mean spiritually barren?

[Anonymous No.18712614]

>>18712550
No, I don't. Christianity is far spiritually richer any fatalistic Eastern tradition.

[Anonymous No.18712679]

>>18712614
>entire religion is predicated on specific, arbitrary events that are supposed to have happened at some point in history to a few tribes somewhere in the desert
This was always utterly nonsensical to me and will always remain so. The Gospels were a good read but I'll stick to Platonism.

[Anonymous No.18712708]

>>18712679
>muh desert
Christianity is the story of God's Revelation gradually being known to more and more until his plan is finally made known to the Empire to spread around the world. Only a fool would consider that arbitrary. There's a reason the Platonists degraded into witch doctors before the academies were abandoned.

[Anonymous No.18712738]

>>18712708
>>muh desert
Not a rebuttal or an argument.
>gradually being known to more
This is fine, it's the case for all religions. Buddhism is revealed cyclically, coming across it is considered a blessing. I don't care for Buddhism, for other reasons, but revelation in itself is fine.
It is arbitrary however in the case of Christianity because it was, conveniently, only revealed once in a single point in history, the events that surround that revelation are also as arbitrary as can get, since they were originally intended solely for a single tribe of people in bumfuck nowhere. This does not make sense. The absolute truth of existence is not something that pops up at a specific point in time to be revealed to a specific group (until it's not). The implications on the linearity of history and the existence of only one universe are similarly nonsensical to me.

[Anonymous No.18712805]

>>18712738
>only revealed once in a single point in history
You're either being disonginuous or you simply have a poor grasp of history. The point of the covenants was to create a people who could serve as the stock for Messiah, at whick point hecwould make himself known to the rest of the world. This Revelation is on going today.
The multiverse is a meme for popsci faggots.

[Anonymous No.18712816]

Lot of people in this thread who have never meditated before. Sit down, close your eyes, and try to focus on your breath for 10 minutes. You'll see how fucked up you really are.

[Anonymous No.18712822]

>>18710208
It's sad that humanity (white people) cant bond together and value their own nation and race without attending antination antirace church where they bond and thus feel prorace pronational sentiment.

[Anonymous No.18712826]

>>18712360
>Christianity gave me muh vidya

[Anonymous No.18712827]

>>18712805
You're dodging. The covenants illustrate this linear progression perfectly. The revelation came through Jesus about 2000 years ago. It's a singular truth that culminated at a single point in time; there was no time before Jesus where the good news were revealed because they depend on his sacrifice to even make sense. Only after his death can the truth of Christianity be revealed, which makes no sense because time is not linear. Any genuine revealed truth is perennial, not in the retarded larpy trad sense but in the sense that it is continuous, constant, available at any singular point and not through a progression of arbitrary events.
>The multiverse is a meme
Yes, a meme present in all religions except Christianity and Islam. An infinitude of higher, equal and lower realms is not a novel take let alone a popsci oen, you have a poor grasp of history.

[Anonymous No.18712828]

>>18712816
>Just turn your mind off, bro

[Anonymous No.18712837]

>>18712822
>antination, antirace church
The opposite is true, you moron. The attack ob the church is an attack on identity. It's why Jews promote meditation.

[Anonymous No.18712841]

>>18712826
And muh schools and muh civilization. What do we have to learn from brown savages in mudhuts?

[Anonymous No.18712843]

>>18712828
No, turn your mind... ON!
>doves fly out out sleeves

[Anonymous No.18712850]

>>18712738
Actually Abraham’s people were supposed to be a blessing on all peoples through their righteousness and get converts, but they fucked it up the first time people asked to join (slaughtered them) and it’s been hard enough to get them to follow the Law in even the most minimal way.
I struggle too sometimes with the historical revelation, but it does make some sense. There is no such thing as a human outside time, so any incarnation necessarily means historical incarnation. However, the principles that are expressed by Christ are universal and universally applicable. Not only that, but the Church upholds that God, this time the person of the Holy Spirit rather than the Son, has remained with the Church and spoken through the Fathers and Saints.

[Anonymous No.18712862]

>>18712841
Good point. There's no trannies or influencers or methheads in the huts.

[Anonymous No.18712863]

>>18712827
That's what natural revelation is for.
>time is not linear
Says who?
The idea of multiple realms reflects the degredation of belief as it strays farther from God. That's also why savages tend towards polytheism

[Anonymous No.18712868]

>>18712862
Lots of suicides, though.

[Anonymous No.18712884]

>>18712850
>a people being a blessing
To me the idea of a singular people, or any perishable worldly concept that is subject to alteration, being a blessing or the key to truth is not acceptable.
If a truth is dependent on the particularities of the imperfect and fallen world which it saves from, something's wrong. Truth comes from outside of the world, it is always alien to it.
>There is no such thing as a human outside time, so any incarnation necessarily means historical incarnation
Revelation doesn't necessarily imply incarnation. But if you want it to be that way, incarnations can be cyclical as well.
>the principles that are expressed by Christ are universal and universally applicable.
Yes, this is why I don't bash the Gospels in themselves, but the surrounding theology.
>>18712863
There being a hierarchy to revelation makes little sense. What are revelations if not natural? If humanity is still present in billions of years, will they still be refering to the revelation of Jesus that happened eons before their era? Doubtful.
>Says who?
The flow of time is illusory. This was understood by many during various historical periods. We perceive time as linear, but it is inherently cyclical (or nonexistent, depending on how you interpret it).
The rest of your post is just stupid and doesn't need to be addressed. There are models of multiple realms within some strands of Christian mysticism by the way.

[Anonymous No.18712906]

>>18712884
>This can't be right because it makes me uncomfortable

[Anonymous No.18712909]

>>18712868
No benzos for mudhutters lol

[Anonymous No.18712915]

>>18712906
No, it can't be right because it makes no sense if you cease the mental gymnastics.
I accept your concession, though.

[Anonymous No.18712946]

>>18712915
>I accept your concession, though.
Every one of your objections can be categorized as either sophistry or an emotional response.
You want revelations to come from the outside, yet be natural? You doubt that Christ will be spoken of in the future, while we speak of even older events today?
You declare time cannot be linear based on nothing but your addled subjectivity.
Your mind has been been clouded by obfuscation and mystification, and you don't know what you want.

[Anonymous No.18712973]

>>18710046
The essence of his depression is that he believes the Universe itself is deterministic, and thus that we are merely deterministic machines with illusions of self-control. And the confusion happens when he meditates and gets in touch with Nature, a Nature which is in reality free, that is, able to self-configure, because there is nothing else to configure it. This is all tautological and he misses it. He loves meditation, but hates his own theory, and resolves the cognitive dissonance with "Life is hard" and "Give me money and I will teach you more about how to deal with the depression that I induced on you".

[Anonymous No.18713005]

>>18710046

[Anonymous No.18713015]

>>18712946
Yes, everyone who disagrees with your religion is a soi drinking feminized faggot. I'll address your points though:
>sophistry or an emotional response
Mysticism isn't rational. Theology attempts to confine the divine to rationality but by its own admission cannot fully encompass it. I could say the exact same of you, everyone thinks they believe in their religion because it makes the most sense out of all religions. This isn't an argument.
>You want revelations to come from the outside, yet be natural?
By "natural revelations" I was referring to the experience of God as revealed through one's own investigations, i.e. from within. The object of this revelation is what is alien. As opposed to it being "revealed" that a specific tribe is God's chosen people (yes I know, new covenant, doesn't change the fact that it used to be like that), which is arbitrary, nonensical and meaningless.
>You doubt that Christ will be spoken of in the future
I hypothesized that if humanity were to survive for billions of years, then yes, the events that happened two millennia ago from our current era's viewpoint will be mere historical data and dismissed as such. That is assuming our history isn't simply lost to time, which erodes all things, and is the reason why I'm more sympathetic to the idea of a perennial, continuously available and/or cyclical revelation.
>You declare time cannot be linear based on nothing but your addled subjectivity.
If I were to quote physicists, you'd (rightly) call me a bugman. If I were to quote religious texts or philosophies that contradict your personal philosophy, you'd say that's not an argument.
>you don't know what you want.
That much isn't completely wrong since I'm still searching, questioning, and not entirely sure of myself. But anyone who isn't blinded by pride would probably say the same.
I'll just say this: Christianity is an ideal system that works as a story. It presents the events of creation as a linear progression, confined to a very small parcel of time, during which various things happen to an extremely restricted microcosm of tribes and peoples, in an extremely restricted conception of the world (a single world, a single time, etc). Seeing that I find the notion of a single world, a single linear time, and divine revelation confined to a single people absolutely ridiculous, I can't feasibly believe in Christianity. Of course it's a subjective stance, as is yours, but I base mine in somewhat reasonable arguments.

[Anonymous No.18713865]

>>18710063
>calls mundos uninitiated
>can't even keep a vow of silence
kek

[Anonymous No.18714020]

>>18713015
>Yes, everyone who disagrees with your religion is a soi drinking feminized faggot.
As has been demonstrated.
>Mysticism isn't rational.
God is order. Therefore true mysticism must be rational.
Anybody outside the Hebrews could know God, the Bible even says as much, but they could not be part of the covenant.
The Incarnation of Christ is the most significant even in history. The fact that we know as much about about it as we do so long after is remarkable in and of itself. To rely on your own questionable speculation is absurd.
Time is linear regardless of perception. It marches on, irreversible.
You lean on nothing but your own flawed understanding, and are too proud to move beyond your pet theories.

[Anonymous No.18714064]

>>18714020
>As has been demonstrated.
And yet you call me prideful.
>true mysticism must be rational
The greatest mystics had an apophatic understanding of divinity. Their experiences were transcendent and not confined to our understanding of rationality.
>they could not be part of the covenant
Preposterous, arbitrary and trite. The rest of your points I have addressed, and you're reiterating them while covering your ears. I have no interest in pursuing this discussion with you. You accuse me of pride because this is what Christians like to invoke when faced with people who simply disagree with their religion: that they are too prideful to accept it. I don't accept your religion not because my pride prevents me from seeing its truth, but because my lack of pridefulness prevents me from accepting such obviously false dogma as the unquestionable and final truth of existence.

[Anonymous No.18714908]

>>18710452

[Anonymous No.18715325]

>>18713015
I take it you reject perennialism, giving your disparaging comment about it earlier. The perennialist view, that the contingent aspects of a religion are just how the eternal, immutable truth reveals itself in a particular place to a particular people, in a manner they can understand, makes sense to me. Do you take issue with this?

[Anonymous No.18715337]

>>18712360
Dude youre a fucking materialist bugman.

[Anonymous No.18715380]

>>18712360
>Christianity has created the most advanced society
Secularism created the most advanced society. Christian dominion is the joke of history, especially when compared to the Islamic golden age.

[Anonymous No.18715391]

>>18715380
pls be bait

[Anonymous No.18715415]

Jews are liars. Their only goal is to distract and confuse.

[Anonymous No.18715416]

>>18715391
>>18715380
You know what would be bait? Claiming that the religion that endorses flat earth is a prosperous religion.

[Anonymous No.18715421]

>>18712614
Christianity is quite literally a dead religion.
No one takes it seriously anymore.
Spiritually barren perfectly describes it.

[Anonymous No.18715431]

>>18712360
Christianity allowed secularism to arise, and secularism created the most advanced society in the world

[Anonymous No.18715433]

>>18715421
The spiritually barren west is a result of secularism.

[Anonymous No.18715563]

>>18715421
t. has never heard of Mt Athos

[Anonymous No.18716100]

>>18715433
Secularism is a result of Christianity. Checkmate, theist.

[Anonymous No.18716144]

>>18715380
Secularism literally fucked up healthy Christian society by prioritizing faggots and brown people.

[Anonymous No.18716158]

>>18716144
Were you actually filtered by St Paul
>Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

[Anonymous No.18716162]

>>18715416
Biblical Cosmology does not teach a flat earth.
https://www.scribd.com/document/450199245/Sungenis-Robert-Flat-Earth-Flat-Wrong-An-Historical-Biblical-and-Scientific-Analysis-001-308-pdf

[Anonymous No.18716170]

>>18715421
No one in your derascinated liberal shithole, maybe.

[Anonymous No.18716179]

>>18716100
Secularism is the result of Jews and their freemason goons attacking the Christian foundations of the West.

[Anonymous No.18716191]

>>18716179
Christianity is literally the result of Jews as well

[Anonymous No.18716205]

>>18716158
Doesn't mean borders are meaningless. The nation state is a Christian idea as God divided the nations.
>>18716191
Judaism did not exist until after the temple was destroyed.

[Anonymous No.18716911]

>>18710046
cant you get his app for free tho?

[Anonymous No.18717124]

>>18710046
eternal life is the free gift of God. if you wish to receive it and have the 100% assurance that you'd go to heaven, watch this short gospel video.

it's very easy to get to heaven /lit/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUO5o4YmTbA