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/lit/ - Literature

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18704137 No.18704137 [Reply] [Original]

Humans don't talk like that.

>> No.18704166

why was this jackass always so sad and mopey? like just lighten the fuck up bro

>> No.18704211

>>18704137
What are you an expert on 19th century Russian dialect? At any rate the practicalities of a fictional book is kind of irrelevant.

>> No.18704231
File: 15 KB, 559x423, 1609375482906.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18704231

>Nastenka,” I answered in a stern and dignified voice, hardly able to keep from laughing, “dear Nastenka, I know I describe splendidly, but, excuse me, I don’t know how else to do it. At this moment, dear Nastenka, at this moment I am like the spirit of King Solomon when, after lying a thousand years under seven seals in his urn, those seven seals were at last taken off. At this moment, Nastenka, when we have met at last after such a long separation — for I have known you for ages, Nastenka, because I have been looking for some one for ages, and that is a sign that it was you I was looking for, and it was ordained that we should meet now — at this momenta thousand valves have opened in my head, and I must let myself flow in a river of words, or I shall choke. And so I beg you not to interrupt me, Nastenka, but listen humbly and obediently, or I will be silent

>> No.18704242

In general, nobody talks like book characters.

>> No.18704245

>>18704137
You clearly haven't heard my mother.

>> No.18704254
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18704254

Humans don't talk like that.

>> No.18704266

>>18704137
Russians aren't human.

>> No.18704312

>>18704242
What book has the most releastoc dialogue?

>> No.18704324

>>18704312
my diary desu

>> No.18704337

>>18704137
I read his complete works in high school and now Im stuck talking like this. I wish I was joking, people think Im insane.

>> No.18704339
File: 35 KB, 521x319, 1626932037730.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18704339

>>18704266
>Russians aren't human.

>> No.18704352

>>18704337
How exactly? give us your best dosto impersonation.

>> No.18704412

— Я бы нe тo eщe мoг-c, я бы и нe тo eщe знaл-c, ecли бы нe жpeбий мoй c caмoгo мoeгo cыздeтcтвa. Я бы нa дyэли из пиcтoлeтa тoгo yбил, кoтopый бы мнe пpoизнec, чтo я пoдлeц, пoтoмy чтo бeз oтцa oт Cмepдящeй пpoизoшeл, a oни и в Mocквe этo мнe в глaзa тыкaли, oтcюдa блaгoдapя Гpигopию Bacильeвичy пepeпoлзлo-c. Гpигopий Bacильeвич пoпpeкaeт, чтo я пpoтив poждecтвa бyнтyю: «Tы, дecкaть, eй лoжecнa paзвepз». Oнo пycть лoжecнa, нo я бы дoзвoлил yбить ceбя eщe вo чpeвe c тeм, чтoбы лишь нa cвeт нe пpoиcхoдить вoвce-c. Ha бaзape гoвopили, a вaшa мaмeнькa тoжe paccкaзывaть мнe пycтилacь пo вeликoй cвoeй нeдeликaтнocти, чтo хoдилa oнa c кoлтyнoм нa гoлoвe, a pocтy былa вceгo двyх apшин c мaлыим. Для чeгo жe c мaлыим, кoгдa мoжнo пpocтo «c мaлым» cкaзaть, кaк вce люди пpoизнocят? Cлeзнo выгoвopить зaхoтeлocь, тaк вeдь этo мyжицкaя, тaк cкaзaть, cлeзa-c, мyжицкиe caмыe чyвcтвa. Moжeт ли pyccкий мyжик пpoтив oбpaзoвaннoгo чeлoвeкa чyвcтвo имeть? Пo нeoбpaзoвaннocти cвoeй oн никaкoгo чyвcтвa нe мoжeт имeть. Я c caмoгo cыздeтcтвa, кaк ycлышy, бывaлo, «c мaлыим», тaк тoчнo нa cтeнy бы бpocилcя. Я вcю Poccию нeнaвижy, Mapья Кoндpaтьeвнa.
— Кoгдa бы вы были вoeнным юнкepoчкoм aли гycapикoм мoлoдeньким, вы бы нe тaк гoвopили, a caблю бы вынyли и вcю Poccию cтaли бы зaщищaть.
— Я нe тoлькo нe жeлaю быть вoeнным гycapикoм, Mapья Кoндpaтьeвнa, нo жeлaю, нaпpoтив, yничтoжeния вceх coлдaт-c.
— A кoгдa нeпpиятeль пpидeт, ктo жe нac зaщищaть бyдeт?

>> No.18704438
File: 65 KB, 645x960, 23231280_1929202433984808_1669925984489946726_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18704438

>>18704412
>Я вcю Poccию нeнaвижy

>> No.18705525

>>18704137
No shit, it's literature.

>> No.18705532

>>18704312
unironically simpler stuff like stephen king and shit

>> No.18705535

>>18705531
>people verse. What's wrong?
What are you trying to say Ivan?

>> No.18705536

>>18704231
Beautiful verse. What's wrong?

>> No.18705541

>>18705536
It sounds shit for one, although admittedly it fits the character; a creepy incel who becomes infatuated with a woman he met 1 day earlier.

>> No.18705543

>>18705541
>It sounds shit for one
that's subjective. I found it pretty

>> No.18705549

>>18704137
This! especially the way porfiry talks. I'm surprised more anons don't address it on here. Tolstoy writes better dialogue.

>> No.18705552

>>18704231
fucking awful lol

>> No.18705554

>>18705543
I guess some people are easily impressed.

>> No.18705555

>>18705554
what's shit about this? explain pls

>> No.18705556

>>18704137
Just like people in Movies and Anime Characters. It’s over romanticized

>> No.18705565

>>18704242
>>18704254
>>18705525
>>18705556
This is what happens when you critique dosto on /lit/

>> No.18705575

>>18705555
Would you speak like that to a woman you were trying to impress?

>> No.18705582

>>18705575
no, but why does the verse have to be realistic to be beautiful?

>> No.18705598

>>18705582
It doesn't. But calling it beautiful is a bit ridiculous. The character in the novel is a loser and a weirdo though, so it's nothing if not fitting.

>> No.18705624

>>18704137
They actually used to, but moderns can't handle sentences with more than one clause in real life.

>> No.18706096

>>18705598
>it's nothing if not fitting
Shut the fuck up about it then retard

>> No.18706310

>>18704312
JR

>> No.18706514

>>18704337
doubtful, seeing as you dont even type like that.

>> No.18706940
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18706940

people don't talk like that

>> No.18706961
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18706961

>subjectivity, Adorno thought, was a bourgeois product, and Russia was still largely prebourgeois, or, as he circumspectly presents it: “in essentially prebourgeois Russia, the category of the subject was not quite so firmly fitted together as in the Western countries.” That explains, Adorno remarks, why “not one of the brothers Karamazov is a ‘character’.”

>> No.18708219

>>18705565
Because "people don't talk like that!" isn't an actual critique worth taking seriously to begin with. If you're gonna critique a great author, then do so with something that actually sticks the landing and can be taken seriously, not some knee-jerk "I have nothing better to say so I'm gonna use this instead" bullshit tier argument.

>> No.18708226

>>18704137
T. Never met a Russian girl

>> No.18708236

>>18704137
He wrote back when theatricality was way more common, nowadays attempted realism is just en vogue but that is relatively modern

>> No.18708237

>>18704266
True their women are angels sent by the devil

>> No.18708239

So what?

>> No.18708250

>>18708236
Besides, when reading Crime and Punishment, that's exactly how I could picture a worried mother and a sister talking to their son who is in a world of shit. The Idiot or Notes From Underground are no different, neither are Brothers K or Demons. Yeah, theatricality is present, but saying "they wouldn't talk like that" means nothing, really.

>> No.18708260

>>18704231
Words like these would make a woman melt.

>> No.18708266

>>18704137
Dostoyevsky was deep down a Shakespearean author, akin to the Tragedy, to the tragic, more appropriate for the Theater. If you hear his dialogues as it was a scene sometimes it works just fine. I think I heard this criticism before.

>> No.18708268

>>18704166
he had a visceral life-changing encounter with death when he was pardoned from execution seconds from the firing squad. that combined with his epilepsy, his gambling addiction, the loss of his children, and the nihilist, materialist society in which he lived, naturally led to his hysterical, passionate, sometimes ridiculous, style.

>> No.18708271

>>18704231
>nastenka
>imagine the smell

>> No.18708284

>>18708266
Did they make plays out of him? Im sure they did

>> No.18708292

>>18708219
I understand where Nabokov is coming from when he talks about Dosto but I think he was a bit harsh. Hemingway put it much better imho: “I've been wondering about Dostoyevsky. How can a man write so badly, so unbelievably badly, and make you feel so deeply?” Anyways it is a known fact that Dosto's prose is quite shit. If you don't realize this you ought to read more.

>> No.18708309

>>18708292
>How can a man write so badly, so unbelievably badly, and make you feel so deeply?”
Maybe im dumb but isnt that the only metric?0jnh8

>> No.18708374

>>18704137
yes they do, dostoevsky wrote salon-talk and high society women perfectly

>> No.18708394

>>18704166
You are mistaken. Even in serious works like House of the Dead, and Crime and Punishment, Dostoyevskty has passages that really leave you ROLFing

>> No.18708407

>>18704137
In House of the Dead, they actually do. You’re a cocky-locky

>> No.18708437

>>18708292
Nabokov's takes on Dostoevsky are largely the same as that of Tolstoy's on Shakespeare, horrendous.

>> No.18708441

>>18708284
Camus directed a production of The Idiot that's on YouTube.

>> No.18708534

>>18708441
Nice! But I have to say i basically stopped reading plays after going seeing them 3 or 4 times. I used to go with a girl and then we parted ways. So im kinda allergic to it now. Still interested in a sense

>> No.18708599

>>18704137
realistic dialogue isn't kino unless done by a proper kinonaut. "humans don't talk like that" is shitty criticism if you don't explain why realistic dialogue is superior

>> No.18708700

>>18704312
Salinger

>> No.18709174

>>18704166
if you can't see the humor in Dostoyevksy, you need to learn how to read better

>> No.18709341

>>18704137
Friendly reminder that Dosto was a literal raving lunatic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschwind_syndrome

>> No.18709344

>>18709341
So? Normfags are boring.

>> No.18709353

>>18709174
humor often fails to carry over in translations

>> No.18709429

>>18704137
That's why his dialogue is good. It is more concerned with expressing the ideals of the characters than coming off as realistic

>> No.18709537

>>18709429
Seems like hack writing.

>> No.18709569

>>18709537
>more concerned with ideas than prose
>hack writing
And you are a pseud

>> No.18709571

>>18709569
Read a textbook then.

>> No.18709597

>>18709571
Why? Ideas manfiest themselves in Literature with the actions of the characters. The narrator can be an aid on that.

>> No.18709676

>>18709597
The word youre looking for is can.

>> No.18709786

>anyone who disagrees with me is WRONG and I am RIGHT which you can clearly see in the fictional worlds I that I wrote it to be that way and it's TRUE - YOU'LL SEE THAT IF QUESTION ME YOU WILL GO INSANE LIKE IVAN OR REGRET IT AND REPENT LIKE RASKOLNIKOV!!!!

>> No.18709898

>>18704137
Yeah, they're Russian

>> No.18709939

I unironically mimic dialogue from the most recent book I've read until it fades from memory
I have no control over this and it sometimes makes me look like a jackass

>> No.18710556

>>18708441
Post link. Can't find it on YouTube.

>> No.18710566

>>18704312
Hemingway.

>> No.18710582

>>18704137
They should.

>> No.18710614

>>18704137
You're reading a bad translation

>> No.18710635

>>18705565
>critique popular author
>people disagree with you
Wow. This could only happen on le /lit/

>> No.18710675

>>18704312
No country for old men

>> No.18710701

>>18710614
no, he’s reading a bad author

>> No.18710864

>>18710701
That's your uneducated opinion. There are plenty of flamboyant people in my town who attempt to talk just like the society people you see in his books, and they're just as fuckin annoying IRL as in the book, just so you know

>> No.18710899

>>18709353
idk when dmitri asks his friend what he should do with the money he stole from his father in tbk I burst out laughing. TBK has won from me more laughs than most other books, Kafka excluded.

>> No.18710903

low IQ neurotypical detected

>> No.18710968

>>18710899
Kafka incidentally loved dosto

>> No.18710974

>>18710899
>That moment when Dmitri muggs Aliosha, jumping from the darkness, just for the lulz.

>> No.18710979

>>18710903
Yeah, only retards think Slavs are human.

>> No.18710997

Dosto was a degenerate pulp fiction writer who was paid by the word to fuel his insatiable gambling addiction. If you like his books, you are the literary equivalent of a soccer mom picking up a harlequin romance novel in the check out line at the super market.

>> No.18711005

>>18710997
Nah the life of elder Zosima is leagues beyond dime-store tier writing. That, and the entire book in TBK about the pretentious ten year old kid who learnt about socialism in the papers. Hilarious stuff. That's more like dime-store tier, I guess, and I don't even care. I enjoyed reading it once. I enjoyed reading it a second time.

>> No.18711056

>>18710997
Tfw James Joyce was the literary equivalent of a soccer mom reading harlequins because he liked an author you're mad at for some reason

>> No.18711074

>>18711056
>Implying Joyce was any better

>> No.18711120

>>18710864
nah they're actually interesting people and you're a sodomite

>> No.18711289

this place makes me depressed

>> No.18711360

>>18711289
yeah the blind dosto worship is insane

>> No.18711375

>>18711360
It's the hatred that's blind, the people praising him just say why they like him, there is no idolizing going on, the haters are absolutely obsessed and get actually angry that people like an author they dont like, it's simply bizarre

>> No.18711382

>>18711360
>>18711375

>> No.18711401

>>18711375
This but the opposite of what you said.

>> No.18711439

>>18711375
>there is no idolizing going on
lol

>> No.18711466

>>18704231
it's a comedy

>> No.18711477

>>18711466
When does the funny part begin?

>> No.18711543

>>18711477
when he finishes his monologue and the first part ends

>> No.18711612

>>18704137
>Reads a translation from rich Russian to primitive English of the writer from 19th century
>Doesn't understand it
No shit, OP. What else is new?

>> No.18711621

>>18711439
Link a post showing 'worship'

>> No.18711630

>>18711621
’link’ my balls

>> No.18711644

>>18711612
>from rich Russian to primitive English
Tolstoy?

>> No.18711670

>>18711612
Nothing about Russia will ever be rich, despite their centuries long delusions.

>> No.18711696

>>18711670
Cope.

>> No.18711700

>>18711696
Upper Volta with Missiles. You are Africans at heart.

>> No.18711714

>>18711700
Still coping?
What country you're from then?

>> No.18711728

>>18711714
Coping with what? An average lifespan 10 years below Europe? Aids on par with Africa? Krokodil addiction? An inability to accept you will never be a great power of the world?

>> No.18711743

>>18711728
>An average lifespan 10 years below Europe?
How is it better for Europe? Why wpuld anyone want to live 10 years longer if you would have to see your sons become faggots and your daughters fuck blacks?
>Aids on par with Africa?
Another cope, we simply test more for it than Europe does. If you were testing for it in the same amoints - you would have had the same numbers if not more.
>Krokodil addiction?
What the fuck is this even?
>An inability to accept you will never be a great power of the world?
Already are, compared to most of the world, including Europe, lmao.

What country are you from, you didn't answer?

>> No.18711753

>>18711743
>your sons become faggots and your daughters fuck blacks
rent free

>> No.18711763

>>18711743
Now this is real cope.

>Already are, compared to most of the world, including Europe, lmao.
LOL no, your pidorashka gangs couldn't even conquer Ukraine. Russia will be an Islamic State in 10 years though. Enjoy your sons and daughters getting fucked by churkas though.

>> No.18711764

>>18711743
Not him
>this fucking delusion
Anon Russia is a fucking hell hole. A joke. No one takes it in the slightest bit seriously. Take a look at your population figures; your suicide figures; your alcoholism level—it's pathetic!

Also your navy's a complete joke; a hilarious one but still it's not a good or impressive thing.

>> No.18711788

>>18711763
>couldn't even conquer Ukraine
Why would we? We have Crimea, a port, plus we have a part of the country flaming the ongoing conflict there, preventing Ukraine from joining NATO. The country will destroy itself within a generation and we will simply have to walk over it to conquer it. So why conquer it now?
>Russia will be an Islamic State in 10 years though
Cope. Nowhere near the situation any other country has with migrants.
>>18711764
Doing pretty well, keep looking at the figures and numbers anon. I'm sure nothing wacky and not-ordinary will happen, kek.

>> No.18711829

>>18711764
Yeah but look at your semicolon addiction levels

>> No.18712060
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18712060

>>18705541
>reading translation
Russian is just simply more complex and flowy and fluid and beautiful. English could never capture that, it will always sound awkward and clunky. Sorry nigga!!!

>> No.18712518

>>18704137
>>18704242
>>18704254
>>18704312
>>18704337
>>18705556
>>18708219
>>18705624
>>18706940
>>18708236
>>18708599
>>18709537
>>18709939
A staple of Creative Writing 101 is to 'listen to how people really talk', which is terrible advice. A transcript of any conversation will be so full of repetition, half-thoughts, and non-specific words ('stuff', 'thing') as to be incomprehensible--especially without the cues of tone and body language. Written communication has its own rules, so making dialogue feel like speech is a trick writers play. It's the same with sudden character deaths: treat them like a history, and your plot will become choppy and hard to follow.

>> No.18713372

>>18712518
This >>18704231 is still pretty bad though

>> No.18713669

>>18704231
I've read notes from underground twice in my native language and in russian, and this monologue is better in both, english is just shit

>> No.18713693

>>18713669
2/10 bait

>> No.18713818

>>18704137
Americans aren't human.

>> No.18714714

>>18713669
i've heard that it flows quite well in french. is that your mother tongue by any chance ?

>> No.18715867

>>18704231
>a coombrained zoomzoom with adhd spergs that people are capable of speaking in sentences in excess of 7 words
drink a gallon of bleach

>> No.18715880

>>18713669
i've read crime and punishment in polish, and the dialogue seemed way more natural in that translation than english versions i've seen. going to read notes from underground in english to see what it's like, but i think you're right

>> No.18715923

>>18715867
Can you say that in English instead of 4chanese?

>> No.18716151

>>18715923
u a dum
read a forking book

>> No.18716698

>>18704312
Stoner

>> No.18716702

>>18705565
>vague unsubstantial shitposting
>critique
Don't flatter yourself, OP

>> No.18717409
File: 178 KB, 750x460, 1626964205848.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18717409

>>18711670
> *mericans actually think this

>> No.18717422

>>18708268
>visceral life-changing encounter with death
>still becomes a gambling addict
lol
why do people take this retard seriously