/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18666039]

I want to learn how to practice Shinto. Are there any books you would recommend to help me?

[Anonymous No.18666057]

>>18666039
Leave their religion alone you filthy gaijin

[Anonymous No.18666058]

>>18666057
No

[Anonymous No.18666069]

you can't practice shinto if you are not japanese. their gods aren't responsible for you

[Anonymous No.18666075]

>>18666069
You can’t stop me

[Anonymous No.18666079]

is there any non-weeaboo reason you have for wanting to actually practice it as opposed to just learning about it?

[Anonymous No.18666086]

>>18666079
I’m not a weaboo. I don’t care about the Japanese language (though I’d be willing to learn it), I don’t watch anime, I don’t listen to their music, etc. I’m just interested in Japanese spirituality, particularly Shinto and Zen Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.18666109]

I read half of Yamakage's Essence of Shinto and got so fucking bored I never picked it up again. I've never been religious but holy shit listening to someone ramble on about the numinous quality of a rock on a mountain just does not get through for me.

[Anonymous No.18666123]

>>18666109
Does it talk about how to actually practice Shinto ?

[Anonymous No.18666135]

>>18666039
It's a waste of time. Shinto is a dead religion with less genuine followers than an uruguayan hardcore band. The average jap knows jack shit about shinto, they go to temples to pray because it's a "japanese thing".
I live in Japan,I've tried to talk about this with many of them (my retarded wife included) and I always get the same answers: "I don't know", "never thought about it", "it's what we do".

[Anonymous No.18666144]

>>18666135
That’s how it is with most religions. I grew up in New England as a Roman Catholic, and the people here are the exact same way. They don’t know anything about Catholicism, they just go to church because it’s what they were raised to do. 90% of people that take communion don’t even know about transubstantiation; they just think the bread and wine are supposed to be symbolic of the body and blood of Christ.

[Anonymous No.18666145]

Praise your ancestors, build a kamidama and put things that remind you of them. Read the Nihonshoki, the Kojiki and classic japanese literature to understand what are the kamis. Then praise the kamis in your kamidama (but don't forget your ancestors too!). And you will be a western shinto. Don't listen to >>18666057, you can be a shinto even if you're not japanese though some rituals might require you to travel to some shinto shrine.

[Anonymous No.18666149]

>>18666145
Thank you for the advice, fren

[Anonymous No.18666161]

>>18666149
Your welcome! :-DDD

[Anonymous No.18666379]

I can drop my discord if you're interested in Buddhism, but there's really not a lot of reason to study Shinto.

[Anonymous No.18666406]

>>18666144
Absolutely false. I'm from a Catholic European country and can guarantee you that the people that still go to mass do care about religion, obviously you can't talk about the filioque with a random Catholic trucker, but they will still care deeply about religion, try to lead a life according to the Catholic model.
The people like you describe stopped going to church or even identifying as religious.
Shinto on the other hand is indeed a dead religion. I wouldn't be surprised if even the priests did it as a way to keep a family tradition and not out of devotion.

[Anonymous No.18666423]

>>18666406
>I wouldn't be surprised if even the priests did it as a way to keep a family tradition and not out of devotion.
Shinto shrines are a big family business, I live in Sakurashinmachi and I've seen some priests in Futakotamagawa, Todoroki, Sakurashinmachi, etc, driving expensive imported cars.

[Anonymous No.18666452]

>>18666135
Why is the amount of active followers a deciding factor on whether or not one should practice it?

[Anonymous No.18666476]

>>18666039
If you can't read Modern and Classical Japanese, you will have trouble getting into Shinto. It's also not possible to practice outside of Japan, since you will not have access to shrines. This is why the Japanese Empire built shrines in Korea and on Taiwan.
>>18666135
>The average jap knows jack shit about shinto, they go to temples to pray because it's a "japanese thing".
You can thank the Meiji government for that. Shrines were not allowed to teach doctrine during the prewar era, and only a version of Shinto perverted to nationalist purposes was taught to children. There's nothing wrong with that, though.
>(my retarded wife included)
Why would you marry a woman who you consider "retarded" and then insult her behind her back on the internet?
>>18666144
"Religion" is dead, my dude. Modern thought killed it.
>>18666406
The people who still go to mass might "care" about religion, but that doesn't mean that they believe in it the same way their ancestors did. How many of them think that adulterers should be punished both socially and by law?

[Anonymous No.18666477]

>>18666452
Don't listen to him, fren. Religion for them is just a way to utilize their hoard mentality, not about religion itself

[Anonymous No.18666502]

>>18666149
Shinto has no foundational text like other religions so it's very loose. It is built around ritual practice more than anything. So this >>18666135
is just normal. I recommend the best way to practice is to either visit japan or join a Shinto community like Tsubaki Grand Shrine of America (assuming you're from the states).

[Anonymous No.18666506]

>>18666502
Shinto has doctrine, my dude. People used to take this stuff quite seriously. Look into Ito Jinsai and Hirata Atsutane, for instance. In the Edo period there was even serious controversy over whether Amaterasu Oomikami was a man or a woman.

[Anonymous No.18666516]

>>18666423
This is true. Few years back there was a murder case within a familiy to determine who was to become the head priest.

[Anonymous No.18666544]

>>18666039

[Anonymous No.18666552]

>>18666039
What do you seek to gain from Japanese ancestor worship that you don't think you can get from more universal beliefs?

[Anonymous No.18666570]

>>18666135
>my retarded wife
kek'd at this
be nice to your wife you faggot

[Anonymous No.18666590]

>>18666039
Become Japanese

[Anonymous No.18666600]

>>18666144
Catholics actually seem to understand and practice their religion much better than Protestants, relatively speaking. Catholics are more privy to instruct their kids to be Catholic whereas Protestants let their kids all become atheists.

You can see this in how traditionally Protestant countries like Switzerland and the Netherlands now have Catholicism as the denomination with highest affiliation. I suspect that even Britain is going to start becoming majority Catholic, or at the very least be on equal footing with Anglicanism in the next few decades.

[Anonymous No.18666674]

>>18666600
>I suspect that even Britain is going to start becoming majority Catholic
That might have to do with the whole women and tranny priests debacle lmao

[Anonymous No.18666892]

>>18666600
Proper protestants know their children are elect or sinners and it is doubly simultaneously determined by Christ.

[Anonymous No.18666928]

>>18666086
here you go!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mvyqPHvhhwc

[Anonymous No.18666933]

>>18666039
Look into Shugendo. Visit Mount Omine someday. You'll learn what you need there.

[Anonymous No.18666982]

>>18666069
Use western Gods, duh.
>>18666145
If you have no shinto shrine, go visit the graves of your ancestors. Say prayers and offer incense and such.
>>18666476
Religion is probably dead or dying yes. Not necessarily bad though. The spirit can now live again in those who are able to channel it.
>>18666039
I think your much better of using a more open approach OP, like general animism, polytheism and ancestor veneration. That said Shinto has some good points, like the clap thing they do, writing they're prayers and leaving them in places considered sacred, their lightning paper things. I can see the appeal. Good luck. Keep reading and learning. Oh yeah. If you are interested in western polytheism I highly recommend Sallistius' On the Gods and the Cosmos.

[Anonymous No.18667006]

>>18666982
SDM suck. Eintei > SDM. WESTERN TOUHOU A SHIT. I SAID THAT ABOUT MELISSA CHRISTMAS.

[Anonymous No.18667115]

>>18666135
I remember a guy interviewing Japanese about religion and there was a Japanese girl who was shocked when the interviewer told her that Shinto was a native Japanese religion. I mean WTF. How does one not know that?

[Anonymous No.18667141]

>>18666039
You're not invited. It has no meaning to people outside their culture.

[Anonymous No.18667323]

>>18667115
Tokyo is hell. Don't go there.

[Anonymous No.18667670]

If you don’t at least live in Japan or a former Japanese colony you can’t practice Shinto.

[Anonymous No.18667692]

>>18666570
I'm nice to her, but sometimes she isn't very clever, likely when she told me that stars were dust.

[Anonymous No.18667699]

>>18666058
That's not even the right finger

[Anonymous No.18667721]

>>18667115
Women are stupid

[Anonymous No.18667798]

>>18667692
Who cares, man? Everyone has weird beliefs of that sort. Do you think you've never told her anything that made her think you're dumb?

[Anonymous No.18667818]

>>18666452
Because he's a trend hopping loser. First it was STOICISM, then it was EASTERN ORTHODOXY, then it was SEDEVACANTISM, now it's TRADITIONALIST CATHOLICISM. Next year, it will be SANTA MUERTE, and after that it will be IGBO PANTHEISM. Why would he want to LARP as a religion that isn't popular?

Which is sort of besides the point as Shinto is incredibly popular in Japan, it suffuses every aspect of life. The Japanese just understand that their view of religion is radically different than an Abrahamic's, so to spare the Abrahamic the headache of actually thinking about religion they just say that they're "Atheists" or "spiritual", because as far as the Abrahamic is concerned they actually are. The Japanese believe that their Gods are immanent in world around them, an Abrahamic believes that Yahweh only exists inside a book.

But the Kami are of Japan. Japan is the center of the world, from where all reality and spirituality flows (see: Motoori Norinaga). There's zero point in converting outsiders, the Kami either are not outside of Japan or don't care about not-Japan. This too is completely alien to the Abrahamic, who is attempting to unite the world under one race, creed, language, government, culture, and religion.

It's completely alien in every way.

[Anonymous No.18667827]

>>18667818
No one believes any of this today, dude. That was all obliterated at the end of the war.

[Anonymous No.18667839]

>>18667818
>Next year, it will be SANTA MUERTE, and after that it will be IGBO PANTHEISM
Honestly it will be fun to see /lit/ users hop on those, kek. Those would be some interesting threads

[Anonymous No.18667841]

>>18667818
Stop talking shit. Japanese just don’t care about religion. And the Japanese certainly don’t believe that their Gods are immanent in world around them. This is what Japanese have to say about religion: https://youtu.be/7gZHuFtuzdg

Which is they don’t care and don’t know.

[Anonymous No.18667867]

>>18666039

[Anonymous No.18667869]

>>18666039
Shinto is exotericism. You have to start Zen.

[Anonymous No.18667893]

>>18667818
>Abrahamic, who is attempting to unite the world under one race, creed, language, government, culture, and religion.

Is that why Europe despite being Christian for nearly 1500 years has the most diverse ethnicities and cultures within a small continent e.g. Russians, French, Germans, Spanish, Italians, Dutch, English, Danes, Swiss than any other parts of the world.

[Anonymous No.18667949]

>>18667818
Everything you said is wrong lmao.
They don't believe there are only kami in Japan. Every single river is imbued with the spiriy of a river God, every forest, every mountain, etc. Otherwise they wouldn't have extended the cult and shrines to their colonies overseas. They simply focus on Japan because it's where they live, not because there is anything necessarily unique about the place (other than them being the inhabitants and thus developing the creation myths around it's geography and such).
Besides, you would be hard pressed to find an actual Japanese that could articulate the religious feeling you describe. They are some of the most infanile, unthinking, materialist, complacent and content peoples on Earth.
For most of them Amateratsu is just a cool character from Naruto, nothing more.
Japanese imperialism was kinda fucked up, but what came after is a literal cultural hellscape akin to post Cultural Revolution China.

[Anonymous No.18668015]

>>18666039
Shinto is a fluid hard to define religion and more importantly one of practice more than doctrine. It's like Eastern Paganism. The word Kami translates to God but is more than just Gods, Kami is also the energy which flows throughout the universe and energy could be emotions we experience or events which happen throughout the day are brought by Kami. What's important is to observe and respect the Kami we experience throughout our daily lives. Visit a shrine, bow at the gate, visit the alter, bow twice, clap twice, throw a coin, ring the bell, then bow once more. Regularly salt your home grounds to purify uninvited Kami.

Most importantly, we are infused with Kami and a projection of the Kami which follows us through our lineage. Kami is the world in which we are part of and a reflection of our world. There are as many Kami as there are people in the world and Kami live and die the same way humans do. We are Kami and Kami is us.

[Anonymous No.18668028]

>>18667949
The Japanese tried to encourage and impose Shinto on Korea, so Korean nationalists adopted Christianity as an act of defiance against the Japanese.

> Shinto's rise in Korea is directly associated with the Japanese government's ideological use of the traditional folk practices of Japan, later described as "State Shinto." As Japan expanded its control of Korea, it also expanded the number of shrines, with the aim of one national shrine in each province. By 1945, attendance at shrines was in many cases compulsory.

[Anonymous No.18668031]

>>18668015
>The word Kami translates to God but is more than just Gods, Kami is also the energy which flows throughout the universe and energy could be emotions we experience or events which happen throughout the day are brought by Kami. What's important is to observe and respect the Kami we experience throughout our daily lives
sounds alot like the Tao desu

[Anonymous No.18668059]

>be me
>unhappy with religion
>research religion
>Hinduism is gay, Gnosticism is turbo gay, Zorothroatism is dead, Buddhism hates the world, Islam hates the world even more, Jews are selfish
>Shintoism is pretty cool
>research it
>honor traditions and your ancestors, there is a bajillion local gods
>logically seen it makes no sense to revere their gods from halfway across the world
>Shinto leads to local paganism
>be germ
>Germanic paganism is social suicide because of Mr Hitler

what do?

[Anonymous No.18668060]

>>18668031
Very much so, a lot of influence was shared when our ancestors observed the world around them and shared their observations. As I said, it's a lot easier to understand Shinto if one is willing to understand it as if it's like Eastern Paganism.

[Anonymous No.18668066]

>>18668059
>what do?
turn into pic rel eventually?

[Anonymous No.18668070]

>>18668060
How much would you say Shinto is distinctly Japanese in character, as opposed to wider 'Eastern Paganism' as you put it?

[Anonymous No.18668081]

>>18668059
Hitler wasn’t even a pagan. He detested people trying to bring paganism and regarded it as foolish to worship long dead gods. Also he thought polytheism was inferior to monotheism which is why he was a deist instead.

[Anonymous No.18668084]

>>18668070
Well, it is distinctly Japanese because no other culture practices Shinto the same way the Japanese do but there are other Paganistic religions in East Asia but really, is there a point in trying to draw a line and separate a hard to define school of thought? Even within Shinto, there's many different practices, observations, and rituals. It's quite tribal, like Paganism is naturally

[Anonymous No.18668099]

>>18668059
What’s wrong with Hinduism? It’s the only major indo-european religion that survives till this day.

[Anonymous No.18668214]

>>18667818
>Not Igbo Judaism
You had one job
>>18666039
>when OP realizes some of his most ensouled objects are stuff he wanked to
Good luck with those kami

[Anonymous No.18668228]

>>18668099
It is a fucking mess of interwoven religious practises that I would have to comb first to even see which statements of it are central and which are optional. Also I dislike Indian culture. Maybe I dig deeper into it and really become >>18668066 pic rel tho. Not a huge fan of caste system.
Entertainingly on one forum I frequent there is an Indian with a few screws loose who adamantly believes that half of their gods are demons in disguise.

>>18668081
The problem is more that White Guilt is our main cultural export, and many people can not seperate between using a rune as an expression of religious belief and using it as expression of support for a nationalist dogma.

[Anonymous No.18668239]

>>18667867
Smallpox is coming back?

[Anonymous No.18668276]

>>18668228
>half of their gods are demons in disguise
yes?

[Anonymous No.18668319]

>>18668228
>half of their gods are demons in disguise.
>anon's religion never had a tournament arc
C'mon man, get it together, even Christianity has that shitty in the desert face off

[Anonymous No.18668374]

>>18667949
It seems that, wherever Marxists end up in control of culture, what follows is a degraded parody of what came before.

[Anonymous No.18668573]

>>18668374
Are you retarded? Marxism has never had any relevance in Japan. Not even in a collateral way.
What we see today is simply an accelerated form of liberal democracy with a strong conservative character.
Even the Chinese hold more reverence for their ancestral ways after 80 years of communist dystopia than the Japs.

[Anonymous No.18668662]

>>18666039
Step 1: be born Japanese in Japan.

There is no step 2.

[Anonymous No.18668852]

>>18666039
Essentials of Shintō by Stuart Picken, Greenwood Press, as well as

[Anonymous No.18668865]

>>18668852
I'm retarded. As well as a basic history of Japan.
Sadly I can't recommend other books specifically on Shintō because I didn't study them in English.

[Anonymous No.18668944]

>>18668573
You are very poorly informed. The entire Japanese intellectual and cultural establishment is Marxist. Almost all history, for instance, is written by Marxists. The best you can expect out of mainstream historians is a Marxian-Weberian synthesis such as Maruyama Masao represents. Almost everyone else, e.g. Toyama Shigeki, Inoue Kiyoshi, Yasumaru Yoshio, Nagahara Keiji, Ienaga Saburo, Amino Yoshihiko, is explicitly and avowedly Marxist. Japan has had Communist Supreme Court Chief Justices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisaburo_Yokota, but the information is only in Japanese https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%A8%AA%E7%94%B0%E5%96%9C%E4%B8%89%E9%83%8E where it says that he participated in Marxist reading groups and was known as a legal scholar "sympathetic to socialism") and if you buy an electronic dictionary, it will come with Marx on it.
I am not kidding when I say that the immense power of Marxism in Japan is that country's greatest kept secret.

[Anonymous No.18669096]

>>18668852
>>18668865
Helen Hardacre's Shinto: A History is more recent and more comprehensive.