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/lit/ - Literature

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1865998 No.1865998 [Reply] [Original]

Howdy /lit/!
I've become obsessed with this book. I'm absolutely in love with it; does anyone know of any similar books?
Also, I don't want to spoil anything but did anyone that has read it come to a definite answer about the end of it?
I've read Less Than Zero and enjoyed it as well but not as much as American Psycho, I'm dying for more characters/narrative such as that of Patrick Bateman.
Cheers /lit/!

>> No.1866003

>>1865998
OP here,
I think there is a bit of Patrick Bateman in all of us.

>> No.1866004

>>1865998

I don't really have a definite answer for the ending. I'm pretty sure Bateman will just continue to pull the same shit over and over again and get away with it. I think the novel does a great job in criticizing materialism and white collar workers, and my interpretation of the ending serves the fact that these excesses are unstoppable and universal

>> No.1866009

The Rules of Attraction, one of the main characters is Bateman's brother, Sean. Doesn't kill anyone but its good.

>> No.1866013

>>1866004
I just question the reality of all the events that took place, I mean there's grounds for them being both true and false at the same time and I think that was set up beautifully by the author. I'm fairly certain if they were real Bateman will keep doing them for as long as he can, it's just his nature.

>>1866009
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll pick it up tomorrow, if there is anymore I'm more than glad to hear them. I actually didn't find the violence/sex all that disturbing; from what I was reading in review some people couldn't even finish the book because of it.

>> No.1866020

>>1866003

I shan't hope so.

The narrative of this book is very simple and straight forward. You might enjoy some of Hemingways work.

>> No.1866022

>>1866013

That's an interesting point. If I recall correctly, Patrick would go through spells of dizziness/disorientation in the middle of the book. Maybe the earlier events (eg. the murder of Paul Owen/beating up hobos) were real and the more gory events (the whole rat pet thing/killing police officers) was fake. I don't believe he could really get away with it. I feel like the police were really baring down on him at the end though.

SPOILER WARNING:

Wasn't the last words about there being no way out or something? It could indicate his own mental entrapment or imminent physical entrapment (being arrested).

>> No.1866035

>>1866022
SPOILERS BELOW PROCEED WITH CAUTION:

The last words were: "This is not an exit." Which an EXIT sign previously existed. And if I'm not mistaken during the police scene the narrative briefly switches to 3rd person but don't quote me on that.
Also the problem with the hobo killing and with Paul Owen is that Bateman sees the hobo near the end of the novel (though both the hobo and dog appear to be disgruntled and afraid of him) and Bateman's lawyer is insistent that he had dinner with Paul Owen in London. Bateman (or so the reader is lead to believe) replaces the greeting on the answering machine of Paul Owen's place stating that he had gone to London. Again another problem is that throughout the book characters mistake each other for other characters due to to their similar aestictics and clothing styles (Bateman being mistaken for Marcus Halberstram by Paul Owen).
It just annoys me that I am the only one of my friends to have read this and they cannot seem to understand the depth and level of the questions this novel has left me with. I feel I have no one to discuss it with, so I've come to you /lit/ and you sure as shit haven't let me down!

>> No.1866043

You could read "Play it as it Lays" by Joan Didion. "Less Than Zero" is pretty much its spiritual successor, especially in style. Even though "Play it as it Lays" came first, I much prefer "Less Than Zero;" Didion's book felt dated and lacked the sense of humor that "Less Than Zero" had. I also love reading books blatantly set in the 1980s, music references and all, so I might be biased.

>> No.1866044

Ellis was actually annoyed with the film version for not making it more clear that the murders did indeed happen, and the reason people claim they've seen Paul since is that they're so self-absorbed and unobservant that they thought they were having dinner with Paul, when really it was someone else.

People idolizing this book scares me. Patrick Bateman is certainly an interesting character, but the obsession some people have with it kind of puts me at an unease.

>> No.1866053

>>1866044
Didn't know that about Ellis, I actually left the book unsure of whether they did or not with all the things that happen but I'm sure that is likely what Ellis had intended. But upon reading that he wanted the murders to be known that they were committed seems a bit strange to me. Also what about Paul Owen's apartment being for sale/cleaned up. Bateman stored the body there. But then again there is the real estate agent that warns him to "never come back here again." God this book is such a mindfuck.

>> No.1866070

>>1866053
The answer to the apartment is that the murder happened. She was selling the place and didn't want to lose money, as no one will buy an apartment where someone was murdered. She covered it up and cleaned the place. Then when Bateman returns she realizes that he's the murderer, and rather than bring the case to light and risk losing the sale, she just tells him to never come back.

Remember, the whole thing is an allegory for the ruthless and inhuman nature of 1980's business and a send up of the selfish and greedy lifestyle that came with it. People in American Psycho care about two things, money and themselves. It's the 'Dog Eat Dog' mantra taken literally.

>> No.1866081

>>1866070
Never even thought about that. Thanks for the insight, so is that to say that it is likely that the rest of the murders did happen? Also what about Patrick's inability to murder Jean (my secretary who loves me)? Being a psychopathic serial killer I figured she would have been the first to be killed seeing as she was so vulnerable and naive to Patrick's ways. Or perhaps he did have a shred of emotion within him and did have some sort of connection with her which prevented him from being able to murder her.

>> No.1866090

I believe all of the murders take place..

>> No.1866099

>>1866090
How can you be so sure? I mean the police officer stand off Bateman has seems so unrealistic to have taken place. Just the idea of him getting away with all this and no one noticing at all just seems a wee bit unrealistic.

>> No.1866121

>>1866081
Well hes so self absorbed that, not only would he be killing someone who boosts his ego, but it would cause him some fuss getting a new assistant.
>>1866099
I'll agree, how can that be real? (I've only seen the movie but how would the cars blow up...)
I find it ironic that Ellis made this book to foreground excessive greed and a lack of individual identity in 1980s America yet so many readers idolise Bateman

>> No.1866140

>>1866121
In the novel if I'm not mistaken I shoots the gas tanks of the cruisers but as I stated earlier I'm pretty sure the narrative switches to 3rd person for some strange reason.
Also about Jean that seems pretty genius now that I look at it; I also noticed that most of the people he murdered either annoyed him (well he tried to kill Luis but that didn't work out all that well), were in a position better then him (Paul Owen) or that he had no emotional attachment to like the prostitute but then again he really cannot create an emotional connection to anyone.
I think the reason people idolize Bateman is because he did what he wanted, he had no guilty about anything and I believe that most people wish to be able to do that. He was a very controlling individual and I found that he was often the man that everyone else looked up to or asked for fashion advise and having that status is what most readers that idolized him like wish they could achieve. Having that sense of superiority and lack of care/concern for others. But that is just my two cents.

>> No.1866147

>>1866090
Also Bateman acknowledges that he is insane, so that makes me question the reality of the murders even more. I think perhaps he's a schizophrenic as well as a psychopath. That would explain a lot of the story.

>> No.1866157

>>1866140
>I shoots the gas tanks
Hurr durr,
meant he shoots the gas tanks
Damn fingers are faster then the ol' brain.

>> No.1866246

I read an article about the end of Inception, and it covers the exact same ground as the discussion regarding the end of this novel. Which is to say that it's intentionally ambiguous. There is no answer and it's meant to be like that. One of the points that Ellis is trying to make is that the men of this era are interchangeable and hardly missed. They're all the same, so one could pretend to be the other and get away with it entirely. Their identities are masks, something Bateman makes explicit. Their identities are mercurial due to shifting trends, but they're also things that can be worn like clothes. The difference between everybody else and Bateman is that there is nothing beneath his mask. HOWEVER, Ellis starts pointing to the idea that since all of these men are interchangeable and the same, then therefore, there is nothing beneath the mask of any of these men.

The reality of the murders doesn't matter to the interpretation of the text. They're real in Bateman's mind, or real enough. His tenuous link with reality is never severed but merely challenged, and in true yuppie fashion, when challenged with the idea that his reality isn't privileged, he ignores such a claim and continues with his business. Bateman hasn't changed by the end of the novel: that's the point Ellis succeeds in making.

Any discussion about the reality of the murders is missing the point of the novel. You may as well argue about the integrity of the 2+2=5 element of Orwell.

>> No.1866262

>>1866246
I think I see what you're getting at but it doesn't seem that all the rest of the yuppies in the book are capable of doing what Bateman does within it. There just seems to be something about him that states out from the rest of him, I didn't really see Bateman as another member of the yuppie culture. What about the "Die Yuppie Scum"? Or when Evelyn asks him why he is still working at Pierce & Pierce and he says, "I just want to fit in." That just doesn't make sense that all the men in the novel were just like Bateman were.

>> No.1866281

Re: the apartment where Bateman stored the body
Does anyone else think that the whole thing as covered up by Patrick's rich, powerful father?

>> No.1866290

>>1866281
How would he know though?
He's only briefly mentioned in the novel and I don't think he realizes what his son is truly doing. But that isn't to say it isn't entirely plausible.