Just read "The Swimmer" by John Cheever

[Anonymous No.18655642]

Why do Americans like to shit on suburbia so much? It seems comfy to a European like me. What am I missing here?

[Anonymous No.18655652]

Suburbia was arguably one of the most mediocre developments in American city planning. It's boring yet idyllic, pretty without actually being beautiful, nothing to do, etc. Writers are very much downtown-city types. Line of thought to think about: how did novelistic and short story storytelling change in conjunction with the way cities were being developed? As cities started being built farther apart, how did that change writing?

[Anonymous No.18655674]

>>18655652
Hmm that's interesting. Without sounding cringe this whole thematic of distance ties in with the stereotype of the distance Americans feel between them, or at least that's what I was told in school. Though you're right that suburbia is kind of disconnected from the city but doesn't that reflect the vast expanse that America was/is? As for the way writers changed their storytelling in conjuction with the ,at the time, emerging city planning I am not quite sure to be honest. Though thank you for your take, it made me think a bit more in depth about suburbia

[Anonymous No.18655698]

>>18655674
Part of my thinking behind this is I subscribe to a newsletter by Patrick Tanguay, who links to a bunch of interesting reading that's thematically curated every week. One of his topics is city development. Cities used to be built with a closer internal proximity to each other i.e. houses in downtown areas instead of apartments, etc.. and the development of tech like cars and better roads led to us building things farther apart. It's interesting to think about how new modes of travel and distance have affected novels. Joan Didion's Play It As It Lays, for example, is ostensibly a road novel that collapses in the desert, after the emergence of the major highway system. The highway turns it into a novel of distance and isolation. Whereas think about 1920s lit like Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest. It takes place in an entire city, but the city and the novel has a closed off, urban grid feel, city-as-mazelike warzone

[Anonymous No.18655775]

>>18655698
Really interesting anon
> Patrick Tanguay
Just checked the guy out. Is he more focused on technology? I like the idea of a weekly thematic newsletter. Seems like a good find, ty anon
Your explanation about the change in city planning and how that affected writing is really eye opening and I am starting to feel how things developed in America, the expanse vs the closed off feel of cities and the final conclusion of suburbia.
On that note, ppl here say that we're cursed to stay here foerever but for me it's a blessing as long as I keep stumbling on anons like you. Cheers

[Anonymous No.18655780]

>>18655775
Yeah technology in general, with extra lines of thinking added in. It's good

[Anonymous No.18655788]

>>18655642
>suburbia
>It seems comfy to a European like me
Seems hell to a euro like me

[Anonymous No.18655802]

>>18655788
Why tho? You have the pool, the kids and the white fence. Just because "muh city centre" is a bit further away doesnt mean your existence is hell

[Anonymous No.18655810]

>>18655802
Do you have HOAs in Europe? They're basically a part of suburbs now and they're gross. It's basically someone else letting your neighbors tell you how you can live your life

[Anonymous No.18655837]

>>18655642
The people are superficial socialites who only accept the main character as long as he has money and status. Once he loses that he becomes an interloper in their world, making them turn on him instead of offering help.

Did you even read the story, anon?

[Anonymous No.18655855]

>>18655802
Too much hypocrisy, homes all identicals, wash the car on sunday before going to church, having to be smile to neighbours, driving miles to get anywhere... that's just not for me

[Anonymous No.18655861]

>>18655810
>HOAs
Just read on them and it seems like a shitty deal. Have you lived in one yourseld? As far as my city goes, from what I gather we dont have HOAs. Though we do have a lite version of suburbs and they are quite nice and posh
>>18655837
Sure but that has to do with a class thing not suburbia in itself.
>socialites who only accept the main character as long as he has money and status
Again that's a class thing. Moreover that's not how it works in real life. Just like any other class there are friends who will help you in time of need and acquaintances who you just happen to party with from time to time

[Anonymous No.18655885]

>>18655861
I lived in an HOA until recently. Watched my neighbors get fined for not cutting their grass every week, or having a boat in the driveway, because it ruined the 'aesthetics'

[Anonymous No.18655892]

>>18655885
>Watched my neighbors get fined for not cutting their grass every week
No thanks

[Anonymous No.18655904]

>>18655885
>fined for not cutting their grass every week
Here we have these rules set by the commune and I think it has to do with the height of the bush fence, I am not too sure what the rules are for grass. Tbqh I am all for it because it affects the beauty of the neighbourhood
>having a boat in the driveway, because it ruined the 'aesthetics'
Yeah, thats bullshit. The real sin though is owning a boat, yikes

[Anonymous No.18655975]

>>18655904
>I am not too sure what the rules are for grass. Tbqh I am all for it because it affects the beauty of the neighbourhood
Fuck off, tall grass has SOVL

[Anonymous No.18655981]

>>18655975
>tall grass has SOVL
Yeah, if you live in the countryside

[Anonymous No.18656032]

>>18655981
i don't

[Anonymous No.18656036]

>>18655698
Interesting connection to make, considering Frank Perry directed film adaptations of both The Swimmer and Play It As It Lays

[Anonymous No.18656053]

What are some other short stories and films that hone in on this feeling? I've been reading a lot of Carver lately and it's got me fiending. Bonus points if it's summery.

[Anonymous No.18656059]

>>18656032
>Mountains in the background
>Balcony shades
>Semi mediterranean house style
Let me guess, south Italy or somewhere in the Balkans
>>18656053
OP's book has a movie adaptation

[Anonymous No.18656060]

>>18655642
my favorite short story. absolutely amazing. to this day ive read nothing like it

[Anonymous No.18656068]

>>18656059
Already watched the movie, actually why I specified "summery."

[Anonymous No.18656079]

>>18656059
>Let me guess, south Italy or somewhere in the Balkans
You can do better than that
I'm not gonna say though

[Anonymous No.18656090]

>>18655642
> It seems comfy
are you german by any chance op? you must be

[Anonymous No.18656096]

>>18656079
>You can do better than that
Is that an invitation? Okay last shot, France or Spain. Just yes or no if I its one of the two

[Anonymous No.18656103]

>>18656096
No

[Anonymous No.18656109]

>>18655802
It’s an isolating experience. You live in the suburbs to get away from other people and have space, but as a consequence the sense of community is a hard thing to build. Even then it comes in the form of “neighborhood associations” which are just bureaucratic bullshit to make sure people are cutting their grass at the same times and shit.
Not to mention the whole “keeping up with the Joneses” phenomenon where suburbanites become so obsessed with keeping up their appearance of wealth to their neighbors that they spend in ways they shouldn’t, and rarely truly enjoy what they already have.

[Anonymous No.18656129]

>>18655674
Read Big Rock Candy Mountain. It deals with a lot these themes unique to America: the sense of constant dislocation, movement, and emigration always in search for a better life that evades.

[Anonymous No.18656131]

>it looks comfy
if this doesn't look like absolute hell to you I'm sorry

[Anonymous No.18656143]

>>18655885
Yeah but this is everywhere. There are always some bothersome cunts who care too much about trivial bullshit.

[Anonymous No.18656146]

>>18655861
M8, suburbia was born out of a desire for class separation. You can’t have a suburban life without the problems that come with being a part of that social class.

[Anonymous No.18656159]

>>18656131
>Oh no, our houses look kind of the same from an aerial picture
>Oh no, I can's stand having a nice house with enough space for all our kids and a garden for them to play
Just kys

[Anonymous No.18656185]

>>18656159
>nice house with enough space
>literally as wide as two cars

[Anonymous No.18656202]

>>18656185
Size is not everything anon

[Anonymous No.18656719]

>>18656131
>>18656185
>ARE THOSE HOUSES NEXT TO.....NEXT TOOOOOOO................OTHER H-H-HOUSEEEEEEEEES AAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'M GOOOOOOOOOOOOING INSAAAAAAAAAAAAANEEEEEEEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.18656805]

>>18656719
>missing the point so hard
Have you taken your prescriptions?

[Anonymous No.18656822]

>>18656805
>THE WALLS...THE WAAAAAAAAAAAALLS ARE PARALLEL WITH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WITH-WITH-WITH THE WALLS OF THE ADJACENT HOOOOOOOOUSEEE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA THE UNSPEAKABLE GEOMETRY AAAAAAAAAAAA I'M GOOOING INSAAAAAAAAAAAAANE AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.18656885]

>>18656822
THE ROADS SPACE FILLING CURVES
THE LAWNS CUT AND SQUARE
MONOPOLYMONOPOLYMONOPOLY
NIGGER NIGGER DIE THERE

[Anonymous No.18656886]

>>18655642
It basically makes you totally trapped to your parents. Imagine not being able to get food without going in a car. Imagine not being able to go anywhere your parents don't endorse of until you're 17. Imagine having zero privacy or independence because the accoustics are terrible.

They're hellish cardboard boxes.

[Anonymous No.18656916]

>>18656886
This. Suburbs are boomer fiefdoms for autocratic amerilards to rule over.

[Anonymous No.18656927]

>>18656916
Not only that, imagine your dad is actually a good dad for American terms. He doesn't have a religion, really, he doesn't have a hobby, nor mostly does he have friends, and so you get someone that is literally just a business made human at worse or a very kind person whose main moral compass is efficiency and the market.

I love my parents deeply - but the flaws that the suburbs let fester are surreal.

[Anonymous No.18656931]

>>18656032
South Germany, Switzerland or Austria?

[Anonymous No.18656946]

The grass is always greener.
Suburbia may look great from the outside, but inside it's very cage-like and suffocating. Imagine for just a second that you need a car to go literally anywhere--the store, a park, to visit family or friends, etc. Not only do you need a car, but you end up driving over 30 minutes just to get anywhere worth going.

>just get a car, no problem
Yeah, great, but imagine being a kid who can't drive and basically has to beg his parents to drive him anywhere. It's not fun. It's very suffocating, it's very claustrophobic. I grew up in a suburb and photos like >>18656185 look like a row of cages, to me.

[Anonymous No.18656955]

>>18656931
No

[Anonymous No.18656973]

>>18656946
This