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/lit/ - Literature


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18654708 No.18654708 [Reply] [Original]

Maiden of Freezing Edition

Previous Thread:>>18643398

>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ

>Archive
>>https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg

>Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg

>A link to the ultimate colossal science fiction and fantasy collection torrent
>>>/t/1023504

>Discord
Never going to be created.

>> No.18654715

Any good novels with a little girl protag?

>> No.18654716

Repost from previous thread: why do people keep saying Bakker is "hard" or "challenging? I mean this without arrogance, but the first book wasn't difficult to follow at all. Just use the character and faction glossary in the back.

>> No.18654718

>>18654716
It's challenging if you compare it to Sanderson.

>> No.18654719

>>18654716
Because fantashit readers operate on a lower level.

>> No.18654721
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18654721

>>18654716
>>18654709

>> No.18654764
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18654764

>>18654716
Oh you fantasy fucking shits.

>> No.18654786

>>18654715
I am very sick of you and your paedophilic ways, anon.

>> No.18654792

>>18654721
I'm going to read it because of this review alone.

>> No.18654798
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18654798

>>18654792
Keep us posted.

>> No.18654811

>>18654716
I didn't have trouble with it either. There was the usual temporary mild confusion that comes with any epic fantasy work until you get a better sense of the world, where everything is, etc. (as you said, use the glossary). My only guess is that the prose is better than usual in this genre and they can't deal with it.

>> No.18654828

>>18654721
A common trend seems to be getting filtered within the first 100 pages. There have been two anons in the past few days like that (>>18646508 >>18628546). I honestly don't get it. The book had me hooked by the time Kellhus encountered the Nonman in the prologue.

>> No.18654837
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18654837

>>18654798
>"this is probably the most difficult book to get into that i've ever encountered"
>go to her profile
>She's reading Sanderson

>> No.18654867

>>18654716
I am gonna assume it is people who have no knowledge of his inspirations. A lot of Bakkers writings clicks because he is literally using DnD tropes. Everything Kellhus does is a Monk class feature turned up to 11. His fantasy races use weird names, but they are all just spins on classical Tolkien races in the end. The way Kellhus is framed is literally just an inferior version of the Golden Path from Dune. His human civilisations all draw from history.

The average reader of Bakker will know Tolkien, Herbert, Gygax and a little bit of history to boot, making it a very smooth read (apart from the excessive rape and random Giger body horror). But the more of those sources you lack, the harder it gets I assume.

>> No.18654877
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18654877

I loved this, especially the first 70% or so.
After two books in the series where the reader gets to really know the protagonist this takes the pov away from him and puts the reader in the eyes of an everyman type who hasn't seen any of the brilliance or intrigue of the first two books.
This leads to a novel which plays off of the contrast between this characters impression of the protagonist as a hated idiot and the reality that the reader knows where they're a brilliant schemer.
Slows down a bit in the end because this dynamic is pulled away and we get a bit of character work to end but it's still a fantastic read.

>> No.18654900

>>18654828
>The book had me hooked by the time Kellhus encountered the Nonman in the prologue.
I felt the exact same. I'm not even sure, but I reckon that's way before page 100.

>> No.18654901

>>18654867
You admit within this post that people don't like him because he applies nonsense names that have absolutely no internal logic to everything but then decide you can't admit this and make up an excuse about having to be well read to get past the terrible naming scheme lol

>> No.18654905

>>18654901
Anon people don't like him because he is an excessive masturbator with clinical depression, not because of his naming schemes.
I was thinking of why people get filtered by him, being filtered and disliking something are very different things.

>> No.18654908

>>18654900
Indeed, the prologue is only around 30 pages.

>> No.18654910

>>18654901
You're retarded.
>>18654905
>not because of his naming schemes.
You would be surprised. I also don't understand why so many native English speakers have issues with fantastical names.

>> No.18654911

I like Bakker's names. It helps with the Byzantine-type setting.

>> No.18654912

>>18654905
>being filtered and disliking something are very different things.
yeah in that the former is a cope screamed on here to defend bad writing

>> No.18654920

>>18654912
You can't even write properly.

>> No.18654925

Bakker's character names are dümb and beyond pretentiöus. Each society seemingly has no conventions or patterns to their names.

>> No.18654926

>>18654920
filtered

>> No.18654927
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18654927

>>18654901
>>18654912
Filtered ESL detected.

>> No.18654932

>>18654926
I accept your defeat.

>> No.18654934

>>18654912
>a cope screamed on here to defend bad writing
Which has no application to Bakker. Even if you dislike his stories, his prose is objectively good.

>> No.18654942

>>18654925
Umlauts are grim and kvlt. I'm sorry you have bad taste.

>> No.18654944

>>18654934
>his prose is objectively good.
no it fucking isn't

>> No.18654949

Can we just rename this general /bakker/? There are almost 30 posts ITT, and only 3 are not about R Scott Bakker?

>> No.18654950
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18654950

>>18654944

>> No.18654954

>>18654944
Yes it is.

>> No.18654956

I don't mind his naming conventions, but i wish the glossary would at least elaborate on his titles.
Like what the fuck is a Sapatishah? A count? A king? A mayor? How important is he?

>> No.18654961

/gfg/ is happening
this general has lost steam
literally the same group of people spamming the same shit every thread

>> No.18654963

Didn't ask.

>> No.18654965

>he couldn't even work out what a Sapatishah was
NGMI

>> No.18654979
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18654979

>>18654965
Shut up Bakker you didn't even know what the fuck it was when you first wrote it.

>> No.18654999

>>18654961
The thread's going faster than ever and there's zero disucssion of stuff because the active posters don't fucking read they just reply to themselves all day.
Look at this baby shit like
>>18654934
>even if you think the one author I've read in the last 3 years is bad you actually have to admit he's good
meaningless drivel that's only being posted because they don't have anything else to talk about

>> No.18655055

>>18654999
>meaningless drivel that's only being posted because they don't have anything else to talk about
I'm capable of distinguishing between the quality of someone's writing and whether or not I personally enjoy reading it. Perhaps this is something you could learn yourself?

>> No.18655084

>>18655055
stop picking fights and actually talk about something

>> No.18655112

Are LitRPG books worth reading, or is thr sub-genre just trash?

>> No.18655126

>>18655112
Mostly trash someone might have done something interesting with it but I don't know of them if they have. Even Sarah Lin, who has done really interesting stuff with cultivation novels, has a series that isn't interesting.

>> No.18655131

>>18654999
>>18655084
Reading through your ESL posts is hilarious.

>> No.18655182
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18655182

Brandon Sanderson Brandon Sanderson

>> No.18655183

>>18654715
The Slow Regard of Silent Things.
Probably makes zero sense if you do not know the rest of Rothfuss writing, but it is a pretty fun book. Very short too. It is all just about this poor girl living in the sewers who has premier autism, so she gave names to all sorts of rocks, rooms and random pieces of furniture standing around there.

Also Momo is a good novel, and I think it fits in the general.

>>18654961
The general really isn't good right now, too many insults and assumptions instead of just recommending fucking books. A lot of people need to get their shit together or be driven off.

>> No.18655187

>>18654961
I vote yea for /gfg/ by the way, not even memeing anymore, I'm so sick of the discord posters

>> No.18655262
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18655262

Lads I l'm loving this setting but the main characters are putting me off. Vinge took such a refreshing tangent on the way civilizations might interact and be created in the first place, but he fails to flesh it out. He invented a new game, but he doesn't know how to play it. Any other works that have such an interesting take on the worldbuilding and the physics, but with actual operators to play in them?

>> No.18655265
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18655265

>>18654798
It's still used as an insult among men now, go back even 50 years and even men in civilized countries will call each openly womanish exactly the same way the barbarians in Bakker's work do.

>> No.18655274

>>18654716
where have you read that, goodreads or something? i haven't seen that sentiment here.

>> No.18655276

>>18655112
It depends. I liked the System Apocalypse series, He who fights with monsters and Defiance of the fall. I liked the blend of technology and magic because in most novels those two are kept separate.

>> No.18655279
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18655279

>>18655182
Since you asked.

>> No.18655293

>>18654956
The similitary to "padishah" should give you a vague notion as to the importance of the office.

>> No.18655358

ANOTHER great Cyberpunk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti1DtNuXFoE

I told you faggots

>> No.18655426
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18655426

>try to read some random self-published haremshit
>for some reason the author elected to have the first conversation with the female romance lead involve the protagonist pretentiously correcting her grammar (in a second-language, not even her first language) while grinning and being smug about it
What the fuck? Who thought this was a good idea? It's like he wanted to write a smart character but he could only conceive of intelligence through the lens of pedantic grammar correction.
I'm getting especially analpained because it's clear the author has no grasp that it's important to understand the intent behind words moreso than the structure themselves. Who the fuck would reject communication and ignore what the other speaker is saying just to needle non-standard speech?
Jesus. You go into these things expecting the power fantasy to be about strength and charisma, but really it's the author's fantasy of smugly criticizing the grammar of others, which is presumably a fantasy because nobody talks to them anymore IRL after they smugly criticize their grammar.

>> No.18655489

>>18655183
That description of Slow Regard makes me think of the sewer scene in Dragons of Babel by Swanwick.
Even though it's completely different.

>> No.18655504

>>18655426
> Who thought this was a good idea?
Maybe the giant is written like a smug douche on purpose?

> it's the author's fantasy of smugly criticizing the grammar
Is the giant the self-insert, or just a character separate from the author?

On a tangent, does the author of Last Exit to Brooklyn glorify rape in your eyes?
(Chapter "Tralala" if you want to know what I'm asking about)

Then again, since it's haremshit I can give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the author is just a jackass.

>> No.18655509
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18655509

>>18654708
Children of Dune, Dune #3 - Frank Herbert (1976)

In the edition I read there's a foreword by his son, Brian, which provided some interesting facts. This was the first ever science-fiction hardcover bestseller and was the top-selling work of science fiction ever up to that point. When measured by that standard, it certainly doesn't live up to the hype today, though I'm certainly glad for what it did to popularize SF sales.
The Dune series is absurd, though in an enjoyable way. There's just something about that it makes me reluctant to criticize it and to simply accept it for what it is. None it of it should really work for me, yet it does. The godlike preteen protagonists who have access to the genetic memories of their ancestors dating back millions of years are preposterous, yet so very interesting in their presentation. The treatment of its characters from the past and present often cross the line into the unbelievable, yet they resonated with me all the same. Considering how relatively sparse the worldbuilding is in some ways, I shouldn't feel so immersed in it yet, did I did. There's just something that eludes my understanding about this series and I prefer it to remain that way.
The epigraphs were especially enjoyable and I appreciated them all, though some much more than others. Their political content remains relevant today. Several of them warned against charismatic authoritarianism even when, or perhaps especially when, it comes from those we consider allies working for our own interest. However, my favorite was "When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.” This illustrates the foolishness that is the thought that treating others fairly will result in them treating you fairly as well. Tolerance ought to have very specific and unyielding limits. So goes the paradox of tolerance.
Although I was concerned that after the relative disappointment that was the second book that continuing would be inadvisable this third book has mostly allayed those concerns. Even if that may yet be the case, I've decided to read all of the ones written by Frank.

Rating: 3.5/5

>> No.18655524

>>18655504
Ah, a reasonable reply from a man of literature. Naturally it is wrong to blindly project the actions/dialogue of characters onto the author, with the basic example being that a villain saying villainous things does not mean the author believes in villainous things.

However, I can more or less glean the author's intention and mindset from this chapter of the book. What's unseen is t he girl quickly falling in love with him, admiring his intelligence and quick wit, etc. The intention of the scene is to establish the barbarian as more intellectual than he may appear, which earns the admiration of women on top of his physical form. So I can glean that the author thinks correcting grammar is a "smart" thing to do; it's an implicit bias, rather than the dude being characterized as a smug douche. (Subsequently, regardless of the barbarian being a self-insert or not, it's clear he's trying to write an appealing / likeable protagonist for his harem story, so we can see what he considers appealing/likeable).

>> No.18655530

>>18654798
>Vivid descriptions of men having their heads bashed in, prisoners of war being tortured and starved to death, children being killed
Meh
>Women get raped anywhere in fantasy
Nooo! Not the heckin holerinos! You can't just take the holes!!!! If you write about it or even mention it you support it. Taking the holes is worse than death. Sexist! Sure, the male characters get raped too but their holes aren't special like ours. Our holeorino peppipinos!

>> No.18655555
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18655555

Thus trilogy is fucking kino.

>> No.18655560
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18655560

>>18655262
Can you give more detail about the world? It sounds vaguely like what was done in Mass Effect, and I've been trying to find books that capture that feeling.

>> No.18655568

>>18655555
Quints of truth. Disturbingly though, I remember being in middle school and coming across an erotica fan fic on Totse of a 13 year old Mara Jade getting raped by some sort of gross alien with an inhuman BAC... :-(

>> No.18655603
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18655603

Post Sanderson kino

>> No.18655610
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18655610

>>18655603
Better not.

>> No.18655623

>>18655279

At least he doesn't tout his work as being a philosophical masterpiece unlike a certain fellow, you know who I'm referring to.

>> No.18655626
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18655626

>>18655623
Does it trouble you?

>> No.18655632
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18655632

>>18655509
The feeling I get from discussion online is that while CoD is relatively weak, you have now unlocked God Emperor, (in my opinion) the best and densest entry in the series. If you like the philosophy in this book you'll love Dune 4. After that it really goes off the rails, but still remains "Dune".

>> No.18655666
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18655666

>At least he doesn't tout his work as being a philosophical masterpiece unlike a certain fellow, you know who I'm referring to.

>> No.18655668

>>18655632
That does seem to be the popular narrative. I'll be reading at least one book from the series per month until I've finished the Frank books.

>> No.18655714

Anyone read the twelve kings in sharakhai series? I saw that the first was well regarded, never got round to it and now I see there's 5 more books in the series

>> No.18655741

what are the indian buddhist aesthetics in Earthsea? someone mentioned in the previous thread but i don't remember anything like that in the series

>> No.18655755

>>18655741
it's more indonesian in setting, dunno why they were calling it indian

>> No.18655770

>>18655426
>Who the fuck would reject communication and ignore what the other speaker is saying just to needle non-standard speech?
plenty of people would, and sometimes for good reason. maybe the author wanted to use this as a way to describe the characters, through their actions

>>18655755
how the fuck is it indonesian?

>> No.18655782

>>18655770
>how is the giant archipelago of small islands with brown people indonesian?

>> No.18655795

>>18655770
>plenty of people would, and sometimes for good reason.
Name 1 good reason for ignoring the intended meaning and focusing on the specific verbiage. Note that it can be acceptable to give speech lessons productively while still responding normally.

>> No.18655849

>>18655782
that's just the setting, not the aesthetics. when i read it i got the vibe of a mediaval world with magic that is mostly small islands but i didn't think about indonesia at all. and i barely registered that they were brown, leguin did a good job not making it matter. isn't Ged dark black by the way?

if anything the setting would have made me think about the caribbean islands after colonization

>> No.18655852

>>18655509
What parts of Messiah didn't jive with you?
And yeah, just like the other anon said, you have walked the golden path to catch a glimpse at the wondrous peak that is GEoD

>> No.18655964

>>18655603
first stormlight book > first mistborn book >>>>>>>>>>>> shit > rest

>> No.18656022

>>18654223
you can tell this dude's books are shit because he focuses on something completely unimportant

>> No.18656130
File: 374 KB, 1280x1782, 0514073cb1f7aaaf3fcebfc1a373f94f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18656130

>—Before there stood gods upon Olympus, or ever Allah was Allah, had wrought and rested Māna-Yood-Sushai.

>> No.18656154

>>18656130
jesus i would never have imagined Skarl like that

>> No.18656189

>>18655852
I don't particularly remember now. It's been a couple years. Probably how much was skipped between books and how it was entirely different in general. I don't mind what happened with Paul in the 2nd or 3rd book. It's a rather bold move, though possibly ill-advised in terms of reader reception, especially in our contemporary times.

>> No.18656292

What are some romance scifi/fantasy that's actually readable

>> No.18656305

Wheel of Time is fucking shit, my goodness.

>> No.18656333

>>18656305
Books 3 and 4 are great, 3 in particular got me back into reading books so I'll always be thankful to it.
But god damn the series really makes you never want to read it again

>> No.18656356

>>18656189
Frank Herbert never really nails good pacing whereas his general prose gets much better as the series goes on. A lot of the plotting through books 1-3 hits points where it becomes a many, many page slog. GEoD doesn't suffer from this so much though.

>> No.18656381

>>18656333
For me Books 1-3 were enjoyable and I think Book 1 in particular will always be special to me. But goddamn, Jordan has no clue how to write characters, especially female ones. I swear they're all the exact same personality with their constant whining and general bitchiness.

>> No.18656396

>>18656292
Kate Daniels by Ilona Andrews. (writers are a husband/wife combo)
World constantly shifts between ages of science and magic.
Very enjoyable read.

Like Anita Blake series, but without the silly gangbang erotica shit after 6 books.

>> No.18656399

>>18656292

A Brother's Price

>> No.18656404

>>18656292
I also liked Kate Daniels, takes them a few books to get together though

>> No.18656406

>>18656396
>>18656399
>>18656404
Thanks for the actual recs, will definitely check these out :D

>> No.18656407

>>18656381
Well, you can hardly criticize someone for writing realistic characters.

>> No.18656432
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18656432

>>18656154
that's how he appeared in the first edition illustrations

>> No.18656517

Any good sci-fi books written by authors primarily known for writing fantasy, and vice versa?

>> No.18656531

>>18656517
GRRM unironically

>> No.18656588

>>18654721
How anyone can make it through Gardens of the Moon and yet be unable to understand The Darkness is mind boggling. Don't get me wrong, I love Malazan but GotM is by no means an easy introduction to a universe

>> No.18656610

>>18655276
>He who fights with monsters and Defiance of the fall
I've been following both of these for quite some time. He Who Fights is without a doubt the more well written of the two but I can't help but enjoy Defiance's take on the cultivation story. The author somehow manged to include all of the things I like about cultivation and deftly avoid so much of the things I hate. Feels like it was written for me personally

>> No.18656615

>>18656531
This. Sandkings is great

>> No.18656620

>>18656292
>What are some romance scifi/fantasy that's actually readable
My answer to this from last thread >>18646277

>> No.18656653

Fuck E William Brown
Fuck Pay Pigs
Fuck Pay Walls
Fuck Delays
Fuck Lies
Fuck No Releases
Fuck You

>> No.18656659
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18656659

I really enjoyed the "biopunk" elements in The Windup Girl (as well as the rest of the novel). Favorite biopunk books?

>> No.18656697
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18656697

>>18656659
>"-punk"
I cringe.

>> No.18656742

>>18656659
Rather than favorite it's more like, "what others exist?" as it's very niche.

>> No.18656755

>>18656697
I agree. Everything should be suffixed with -trad. Cybertrad. Steamtrad. Biotrad. Dieseltrad. Then there's tradscience and tradfantasy.

>> No.18657031

>>18656755
Sperg out if you want, I just meant that they're all microscopic sub-sub-subgenres trying to cash in on the success cyberpunk built up as if it was a franchise of its own before being swallowed and consumed as part of the wider iconography of fiction by having a similar name and really being the same thing, except that they're "not like the other girls" because they have clockwork instead of computers. It seems, to use a /tv/ meme, dishonest.

>> No.18657161

>>18657031
You say that out of ignorance.

>> No.18657163

>>18657031
who asked

>> No.18657182

>>18657031
Why do you sound like as Asspie autist sperg?

>> No.18657303

>>18655623
Clearly the idiot has a far too high of an opinion about his schlock when he feels the need to make terrible lectures about it.

>> No.18657321

>>18656588
Because Malazan fans are all delusional, pretentious idiots. The actual, unironic epitome of Dunning-Kruger effect.

>> No.18657359

>>18656333
>got me back into reading
Never has there been a surer sign to avoid reading something. It's always some idiot that's, by their own admission, read barely anything or it's been so long, they've completely lost any sense of taste or criticality they might have otherwise had. Unsurprisingly, you hear this about Sanderson's shit writing all the damn time.

>> No.18657431

>>18657359
who cares shut up

>> No.18657475

>>18655265
Women have their faults as do men. Why is it so hard for the poster to see that?

>> No.18657595
File: 1.78 MB, 1482x750, throne-of-glass.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18657595

Best series ever?

>> No.18657607

>>18657595
I see advertising spambots have figured out how to beat the new captcha.

If this series is so great, why does no one seem to care? If the story and characters are so great, why aren't there any memes about it?

>> No.18657744

>>18657607
Hide Maasfag posts.

Ignore Maasfag posts.

Do not respond to Maasfag posts.

>> No.18658070

>>18657321
Malazan is dogshit. Masturbatory level of World-building clouding the fact that the simplistic plot and non-characters read like a ripoff of The Black Company (which also isn't well written, but is at least fun to read) The Chronicles of Amber, Game of Thrones and some dweeb's years-long RPG campaign.

Ultra delusional fanbase that confuses the fact that the books are super detailed, with being super complicated or deep. It's basic-ass epic fantasy. The prose and dialogue are terrible.

>> No.18658127
File: 154 KB, 991x320, received_394642475203606~3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18658127

Had an illustrator create a blind piece for me, that is, he read a part of a book I'm working on and made an illustration 100% his way. What does everyone think?

>> No.18658135
File: 793 KB, 1703x2048, received_513842453293758.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18658135

>>18658127
Image got fucked up. Reposting

>> No.18658537
File: 1.64 MB, 2388x1718, 2w4t5eghhpl21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18658537

>>18658127
>>18658135
>>18658135
Unless your book is as incomprehensible and surreal as the illustration itself, I'd say they did a shit job. I struggle to recognize a single thing in it aside from some weird two-walled buildings. If that's just his style, not sure why you asked that guy in particular. I will be honest and admit that this sort of art isn't really my thing, I prefer my stuff far more representational, but I try to critique art by consistent standards.

For my criticism of the piece itself, there's very little thought put into composition, specifically in the values. The whole image is more or less evenly valued, no contrast. What I assume to be the focal point of the piece, the top left shape that could be interpreted as some black beast if I look at it hard enough, is completely drowned out by the shapes around it. If the rest of the piece was just a little bit darker, it would have read much better. Color also would have made it significantly easier to look at.

It's not a bad piece per se. It's got a lot of soul, but I'm not getting any clue of what your book is about other than a general vibe.

>> No.18658941

I'm writing a story. Part of it has the MC walk through a "haunted", foggy forest. I wrote a song that the children of the nearby town sing, can you critique it for me?

Beware
The Fog Maker, gold taker
In the forest dense,
Fire lighter, flint and steel work not in the mists.

Moon dimmer, dew shimmer
Rose water may aid
With no oil lantern you will find your grave

Bone creaker, blood leaker
Skulks in the wood
From this creature, comes nothing good


I feel like the last stanza is a little weak. Any ideas?

>> No.18658956

>>18658941
Also the reason I out haunted in quotes in because the creature is really a shitty sorcerer leading a pack of bandits.

>> No.18659062

>>18658941
I dunno man, do the specifics of the song matter to the story (or anything else) or are you just including the song for the sake of it?

>> No.18659198

>>18659062
Yeah the specifics do matter a bit. The forest is covered in fog and mist, year round. It's hard to light fires because it's so wet and cold, so you have to bring oil lantern in with you. Rose water is used by the priests in the area to bless items and houses.

I'm including the song as a bit of world building. It's the kind of song children sing, like Ring Around the Rosie being a out the black plague, or at least that was what I was going for. It seems a bit lacking to me though. It feels like it starts off strong and then slowly gets worse.

>> No.18659210

>>18659062
I'm toying with the idea of a kid singing the song in the woods and it summoning the real creature, playing the tune on the pipes. I want music to have a small role in the story, but I'm not sure how to go about that.

>> No.18659537
File: 41 KB, 333x500, 51xWJo3fudL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18659537

Finished up pic related. Jack Vance's vocabulary is absolutely fantastic.
Some of the Dying Earth short stories were included, and my god they are depressing with their anti-heroes and general world. I'm surprised that that series is more popular than the Lyonesse trilogy.

>> No.18659558

>>18654798
Now I really want to read it.

>> No.18659648

>>18654798
For all its faults at least PoN triggers the holes something FIERCE. I mean yea they get triggered over everything to begin with, but it's especially funny with PoN since Bakker is a liberal leaf faggot himself and these dumb cunts have no idea what 'context' is.

>> No.18659671

>>18657607
it isn't an advertising spambot, it's Maasfag. Maasfag is a long and enduring tradition of these threads. there are many origin stories.

>> No.18659693

>>18654798
>>18654721
they make some dumb points but they arent completely wrong. his female characters are unbearable

>> No.18659697
File: 686 KB, 606x1060, andreth-and-aegnor____by_ekukanova-d9jc9hz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18659697

>be me
>be elf-lord, Galadriel's older brother
>see girl bathing
>she's human
>love_at_first_sight.jpg
>can't marry because reasons
>forswear marriage to any elf-maiden for human gf's love
>she grows old while I stay eternally youthful
>battle-of-sudden-flame.gif
>die unmarried and alone
>go to halls of mangos
>never see human QT again
>mow

>> No.18659701
File: 219 KB, 521x700, Elena_Kukanova_-_Dagor_Bragollach.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18659701

>>18659697
*Mandos
*mfw
stupid autocorrect

>> No.18659717

>>18654798
My face hurts from laughing. It has been a long time since I’ve enjoyed myself this much. Thank you, Anon.

>> No.18659726

>>18659693
So they're the most realistic female characters ever written is what you're saying.

>> No.18659729

>>18659697
There's one thing that sort of confused me reading the Silmarillion. Elves, when they get killed, will always go to the Halls of Mandos and reincarnate right?
So why is it that Feanor is so pissed when Melkor kills his dad? Just wait maybe a dozen years and he'll be back. I guess you can argue he was more angry about the Simarills being stolen.
But then there was also stories of Elves being kept prisoner or giving up information for their lives/loved one's lives who are also elves. Why don't they just commit suicide or just let their loved ones die? They'll come back to life inevitably.

>> No.18659757

>>18659729
Anon, the vast majority of elves do not return from the Halls of Mandos. It's not like they have instant respawn. The only elves who were allowed to return to Middle-Earth, from what I know, were Lúthien and Glorfindel, both exceptional heroes.

AFAIK, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Finrod and all the rest are in deep cryo-sleep in Mandos, to be reawakened at the world's ending (an idea Tolkien felt ambivalent about. Death was a very big deal for the Elves.

>> No.18659781

>>18659757
>The only elves who were allowed to return to Middle-Earth, from what I know, were Lúthien and Glorfindel, both exceptional heroes
That's specifically Middle Earth, though isn't it?
From what I gathered, when an elf died in Middle Earth, or anywhere really, they'd go to the Hall, wait a few years, then be reborn in Valinor, but they would never be able to return to Middle Earth again because the Valar forbade it.

>> No.18659808

>>18659781
Tolkien changed his mind about this a lot, but it sounds like they could be detained by Mandos to reflect on their deeds for up to an entire Age, thousands of years of the Sun. And then they would be reincarnated, either as babies or into full-grown bodies (Tolkien never made up his mind on this).

>> No.18659864

>>18659726
do you enjoy being an incel?

>> No.18659870
File: 87 KB, 1024x680, 1623247413907.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18659870

>>18659864
>do you enjoy being an incel?

>> No.18659929

>>18659870
get off 4chan for a bit dude. go outside

>> No.18660373

Anything new this year on your list, /sffg/?

>> No.18660458

>>18654798
sounds brilliant!RWHJ

>> No.18660489

>>18659929
Did I upset you?

>> No.18660496
File: 37 KB, 422x422, words_of_radiance.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660496

Anyone read brandon sanderson series? The first book in this stormlight archive was amazing, but this second one, pic related, was so disgustingly mediocre. Don't even want to really continue.

I remember similarly with elantris, it was so good cause it was a one off. Are all of sanderson series works terrible?

>> No.18660502

>>18660496
>Are all of sanderson series works terrible?
Yes.

>> No.18660535

>>18660496
You read his best work, it will never get better than this. Every second installment of a series he writes is half as good as the first.

>> No.18660606
File: 1.02 MB, 1239x788, I_VE SEEN FINGS YOU PEOPLE WOULD NAY BELIEVE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660606

>>18660535
>>18660502
so disappointing. Some of the character(s) are well written, and have so much depth. But I don't really want to read multiple +1000 page books for a couple chapters of said character(s). Maybe when I'm done school, read the main books on my priority list, and have a bunch of time to kill.

>> No.18660608

is /lit/ really an underage board?

>> No.18660611

>>18660608
no, everyone's just retarded

>> No.18660644

>>18660608
The secret of why /lit/, which is dedicated to one of the most enjoyable and enlightening pastimes in life, is at the same time clinically retarded, aggressive and insufferable is lost to the ages.

>> No.18660657
File: 309 KB, 1594x641, 1607444898314.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660657

>>18660496
You thought that one was bad? It's the best one in the four he has written to far. And I enjoyed the first as well. The third and forth books are absolute trash. Don't even bother.

>> No.18660663

>>18660606
The characters have no depth whatsoever, and you will understand this if you continue to read the books. Kaladin just keeps bitching on every book in order to unlock new ideals, and Shallan is the cringiest female character I've ever read, unironically.

>> No.18660669
File: 485 KB, 799x1010, 1614093714006.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660669

>>18659693
>>18659864
>>18659929
>Same shitty punctuation.
>Same shitty grammar.

It's so easy to identify filtered shitters.
You will never be able to read Bakker.

>> No.18660699

>less that two months until Perhaps the Stars drops
I have not looked forward to a book like this for more than a decade.

>> No.18660709
File: 549 KB, 1571x2560, 1625827737416.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660709

>>18660663
yea, I don't really like shallan, sometimes she's ok, sometimes completely insufferable. And the romance was so dull. So awfully written, read better romances in children books.

Also something I've noticed is that sanderson frequently emphasizes strong female protagonist. But funnily, they are all written the same, just cringy. Shallan, jasnah, navani, that girl in elantris. They all have this, I can do everything, don't need a man vibe. Like they are trying to prove something. Literally all of them are essentially the same character. The girl in elantris is the only one who's ok.

>>18660657
damn, guess I'll start pic related then.

Fuakkkk bros, I wanna know what happens to kaladin and his family. That's honestly it, don't care about anyone else. Also did you guys get like a really gross feeling from dalinar and navani's relationship? Just such cuckish/beta behaviour. Letting your bro take your love, then taking her back after he dies, and she has kids. felt so gross to me.

>> No.18660728
File: 1.96 MB, 720x1280, 1606850512640.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660728

>>18660709
literally the entire romance, is just shallan going 'gosh he's so handsome'. just awful. One thing i did like was the parallel between kaladin/tien(brother) and dalinar/elhokar(nephew).

>> No.18660730

>>18657595
>>18657607
>>18657744
I had zero interest in this series, but seeing you lot chimp out over it made me order a copy.
>If the story and characters are so great, why aren't there any memes about it?
All of the best stories have no memes, because they filter cumbrains too much.

>> No.18660742

>>18660709
Navani is the single worst female character I've ever read in fantasy. You will understand this when you read the 4rth installment.

>> No.18660746
File: 29 KB, 220x380, Patrick Gnomefuss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660746

Patrick gnomefuss

>> No.18660768
File: 1.31 MB, 658x1000, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660768

I liked it, it was a lot of fun.
I particularly enjoyed how not all the time was spent on being like an ayylmao version of Terminator and running away from the big scary thing, but instead focused a lot more on the principles and issues that are raised by the plot.

>> No.18660785
File: 413 KB, 640x576, 1626391905959.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660785

>>18660746
whens this fag releasing doors of stone bros, it's been over 10 years, and why is kvothe such a simp? only complaint I have.

>> No.18660845

>>18660785
>when
Nobody, not even him, knows
>why is kvothe such a simp
Because he's a dumb teenager and Kvothe is not a reliable narrator

>> No.18660951
File: 195 KB, 1024x1005, rothfuss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18660951

>> No.18661052

>>18654708
Give me the least intelligent but still above high school levels of writing that you know off.
I want to kill some braincells, but subtly.

>> No.18661054

>>18661052
>that you know off.
>I want to kill some braincells, but subtly.
I don't think that's a good idea, anon, especially considering how little you have left...

>> No.18661057

>>18661052
Snow Crash

>> No.18661074
File: 29 KB, 741x568, af2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18661074

>>18660951
Which Harry Potter lizard begins with 'drac'..?

>> No.18661084

>>18660951
>>18661074
At least he didn't name his dragon Drogon.

>> No.18661085

>>18661052
Sanderson...

>> No.18661088

>>18661085
He said above highschool

>> No.18661090

>>18661088
probably above his highschool

>> No.18661096

>>18658135
Looks like your main character is a piece of swiss cheese.

>> No.18661154

I dont know why I fucking hate you so much /sffg/
fuck you all

>> No.18661163

>>18661154
I love you too

>> No.18661208
File: 132 KB, 1024x1028, 1605665427115.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18661208

>>18654708
Any recs for fantasy books about a haughty princess falling from grace and getting raped into submissiveness?

>> No.18661263

>>18661208
I have stumbled upon at least a couple of VNs with this premise, although I cannot say how many of them ever got translated.
I'm pretty sure Mangagamer released a fantasy-themed game with a similar conceit, the queen and the princess being heroines. Kuroinu something?

>> No.18661288

>>18661263
that screenshot actually hails from Kuroinu

>> No.18661481

>>18661208
Friday by Heinlein

>> No.18661542
File: 206 KB, 510x195, A_Court_of_Thorns_and_Roses_series.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18661542

Is this better than Throne of Glass?

>> No.18661552
File: 30 KB, 597x559, 1622836458362.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18661552

>>18661542
>wom*n

>> No.18661625
File: 71 KB, 636x1000, 61XM7mwETdL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18661625

Bear Head, the sequel to Dogs of War was a let-down.
I don't think Adrian Tchaikovsky had an actual plot planned. He just wanted to play with some ideas. I guess you could technically say there was a plot, but it was so disjointed and devoid of any real motives or messaging.

The main character was this archetype that I hate: That guy who is resistant to any good sense, and all he knows how to do is be combative and belligerent for no good reason. No redeeming qualities at all. He's just "leave me alone! I don't want any part of this!" the WHOLE way through the book. It gets so tiresome.

The returning character Honey gets cut down into a generic wordy scholar archetype.

It kept re-explaining simple concepts, while not doing much with them. There's this politician character who is pretty much a Trump strawman. And he has an assistant who is fitted with a chip that forces her to do whatever he says. And Adrian spends paragraphs and paragraphs reinforcing the fact that she's powerless to this man due to the chip. And it's like "yeah, we get it. Charismatic politician is a misogynist. Boys club, rape culture, toxic masculinity, all that stuff... Please move on now." Or at least DO something with it. He did more telling than showing.

The pacing was terrible, because he didn't have a goal with the story, just let it meander. It was HALF WAY into the book, when Honey gets stuck in Jimmy's head. That should have happened in the first third of the book. Then, the second third should have been finding Bees, and negotiating with her. Then the third part should have kicked off with the takeover of Mars. But all of that stuff happened in the end of the book and wrapped up so quickly. In a blink it's all over. Very unsatisfying.

>> No.18661686
File: 56 KB, 647x432, 146345324_10218915529782603_5011605161679026266_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18661686

>>18660785
Don't worry, it will be released right after "The Winds of Winter" comes out. Both books will be written by Brandon Sanderson

>> No.18661723

A lot of books posted in the thread have only ever been read by a single other person who has ever come to this thread.

>> No.18661731

>>18661723
That's untrue, these threads only ever talk about normie core books that literally everyone has read.

>> No.18661835

>>18661731
You're very wrong about that. Literally no matter which book you pick, a majority hasn't read it, and by that I mean 50%.

>> No.18661865

>>18656659
The Mechanical
(The series isn't biopunk so much at the start, but give it time)

>> No.18661876
File: 856 KB, 852x893, 1432932731677.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18661876

>>18661208
Have a better stitch

>> No.18661903

>>18661835
Sounds like you're looking for a book club. Yeah, sure, we're all not reading the same books together and having a mass shared experience. But that's because we're all a bunch of rando with varying tastes. Seeking 50% or greater familiarity in any community regarding any thing is asking for a lot.

>> No.18661929

>>18661903
I'm not. I'm saying it's closer on average to "only one person has read" versus "literally everyone has read".

>> No.18661936

>>18661929
>>18661903
>>18661731
By which I mean, all the most talked about books, some much more than others, have far less people reading them. It's closer to say that it's a few dedicated people always going on about their preferred book regardless of how popular it is or how many in the thread have read it.

>> No.18661950

>>18661731
In summary, everything about this post is wrong and the only possible defenses are "I was only exaggerating/it's hyperbole!/I was just meme'ing!/don't think things so seriously/you're no fun/AUTISM!" and so on.

>> No.18662013

>>18661936
> waaahhh why don't you talk about sanderson

>> No.18662032
File: 54 KB, 1096x423, 1623825830329.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18662032

>>18661052
This is according to his own fans.

>> No.18662043

There's no need for bait when the fish eagerly jump onto your boat.

>> No.18662349

>>18662032
>all his adult books read at a YA level, and the level of his YA books is insulting to the supposed literacy of young adults
I don't think this problem is specific to Sandon Branderson in the current year.

>> No.18662638

>>18662349
Because pop writers have to operate in reality. The median adult reads at an 8th grade level, and most high schools think reading proficiency is a white supremacist benchmark.

>> No.18662984

Just finished Cry Pilot and Kill Orbit by Joel Dane. Fantastic stuff. Probably the best Science Fiction I've read all year. Actually that isn't true, I read Blindsight in earlier. Even so. I adore this sort of pulpy stuff. Reminded me a lot of Scott Westerfeld's Risen Empire stuff. Always wished he'd done more than two books in that series.

Any recommendations on what to read next? I was planning on finally reading the last book in Alex White's Salvagers series but I really ought to reread the first two first, so a little aperitif between might be in order.

>> No.18663163

>>18662984
Liked Cry Pilot got kinda bored in the sequel on reading the part where he starts listing off deaths.

>> No.18663180

>>18663163
Which part? I'm trying to think of what you're talking about but there are several different sections in the book that could be described as 'listing off deaths' but I think the longest is at most a page long.

>> No.18663187

Hard science fiction setting where everything is deeply rational but then there's a ghost or something supernatural like that as opposed to an alien encounter?

>> No.18663234
File: 77 KB, 500x500, fireuponthedeep.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18663234

Reading pic related and it's VERY good. I'm surprised I don't see it mentioned more often on /lit/. It has so many cool and unique ideas in it's world, more so than other space operas like Dune and Hyperion which seem way more popular.

>> No.18663243

>>18663234
What's it about anon?

>> No.18663244

>>18663234
>more unique ideas than dune
I don't even like dune but come on
Dune was incredibly unique at the time it's just that so much of it has been copied or "inspired" other works since

>> No.18663268
File: 106 KB, 500x471, map1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18663268

>>18663243
It's a typical AI gone wrong story, but the galaxy is structured in a way that the farther you are from the galactic core, civilizations become exponentially more advanced and FTL technology becomes possible. There's also tons of bizarre aliens that think and operate in hive minds and such. I'm only ~130 pages in, so I can't say a whole lot but it is very charming.

>> No.18663394

>>18660785
Most teenagers are simps to be fair. However I have a bone to pick with everyone that says he's a Gary Stu. He does fuck up constantly.

Also I think Bredon is his father. Or at least I know Arliden is not his true father. How good was the chapter about him in The Eld?

>> No.18663427

>>18663234
It's a really cool world, but the series is absolute garbage.

>> No.18663467
File: 73 KB, 576x1024, 1607979040488.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18663467

I've been reading lots of edgy shit lately. What are some good light hearted and fun books? Preferably stand alone novels and not a series.

>> No.18663470

>>18659697
so much celebration of the "star-crossed love" trope between elves and men in Tolkien's mythos whilst so much coded scorn of miscegenation with the half-orcs, jeez make up your mind, are you racist or not!

>> No.18663532

>>18663467
Goblin Emperor is exactly what you need.
Through heritage shenanigans the enstranged relative of the elven king, a mere goblin, gains the crown. Despite the elves being pretty racist against him and political turmoil threatening the kingdom he tries his best to be a good sovereign. Two sidekicks help him, a warrior elf and a mage elf as his bodyguards.
Short, light hearted, unusual, satisfying, and while I havn't read it in English the prose was decent in translation aswell.
Imo it is the best Fantasy written by a women, beating out stuff like Earthsea.

>> No.18663551
File: 41 KB, 334x500, 51wJBF+LbKL._AC_SL1500_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18663551

>>18663532
forgot pic

>> No.18663562

Growth Hero is such a bad book, holy shit. How can it even have positive reviews.

>> No.18663572

>>18663532
Sounds good. I'll give it a look.

>> No.18663594

>>18654721
I can accept that, I can't read books with a female MC either, why should the whore be able to read books with male MCs?

>> No.18663599

>>18663467
Neil Gaiman's older novels like Neverwhere and Stardust are all pretty chill like that. I usually pick up a higher end YA series and read until I get bored when I need a palate cleanser.

>> No.18663668

>>18655555
Only kino Star Wars novel is Shatterpoint.

>> No.18663693

>>18655112
If you want self-published power fantasy stories then try Beware of Chicken (it's xianxia not gamelit so technically not what you want).

>> No.18663711

>>18663470
is this bait

>> No.18663730

>>18663711
yes, thank you

>> No.18663737

>>18663467
how much fun? fun like The Three Musketeers or like High Crusade?

>> No.18663750

>>18654708
retarded pic, ice doesn't crack that perfectly and that far away from the pressure point OP i expected better of you

>> No.18663775

>>18660709
Just read a plot summary of the books. It's what I did with The Wheel of Time after the second book.

>> No.18663792

what do you like more?
>fantasy world with normal animals like bears and horses
>fantasy world with creatures that fall into more-or-less the same niches as normal animals like bears and horses
>fantasy world with a completely alien bestiary

>> No.18663796

>>18663792
well it depends on the story you want to tell in the world doesn't it.
last is obviously the best for standing out but hardest to do convincingly

>> No.18663819

>>18663551
>>18663532
Based. Gobbo Emperor is really well done and relatively unknown

>> No.18663822

>>18663750
It's a fantasy you dip

>> No.18663986

>>18663792
If you're going to eschew regular animals for made up ones you'd better not half-ass it or else what's the point? You might as well stick to regular animals and plants if you don't have the wherewithal to go full imaginary ecology. But there is a point where you're gilding the lily on world building though. I don't care how well realized your fantasy biosphere is if you can't write an engaging plot or characters.

>> No.18664020

>>18663819
>relatively unknown
The Goblin Emperor received the 2015 Locus Award for Best Fantasy Novel.[8] It was nominated for the 2014 Nebula Award for Best Novel,[9] the 2015 Hugo Award for Best Novel[10] and the 2015 World Fantasy Award for Best Novel.[11]

>> No.18664021

we should do book of the week/month shit

>> No.18664033

>>18664021
there's a whole reading group but the autist running it tries their hardest to take all discussion out of the thread

>> No.18664035

>>18663986
>there's no point in creating your own fantasy ecology if you don't go pointlessly in-depth
>also it's a bad thing if you go pointlessly in-depth
Excessive world-building in place of actual story and characterization is a problem that has been plaguing genre fiction for years and years now, but it's just as stupid saying you might as well not create a fantasy ecology if you you're not going to spend a lot of pointless time world-building it. When you read a fantasy story that takes place in a realistic ecology do you expect the writer to devote page after page describing and explaining the plant life and animals? No. That would be retarded. Same shit applies to fantasy ecology.

>> No.18664039

>>18664033
if it's not in the thread, it's not part of the thread

>> No.18664040

>>18663819
>>18664020
It's also constantly shilled here.

>> No.18664124

>>18655555
I read this after reading his never Gary Stu Thrawn dualogy and didn't care all that much for it. Honestly this trilogy misses the sense of adventure and over the topness of the original trilogy. These novels aren't bad, but they really are nothing special and don't deserve the hype.

>> No.18664143
File: 250 KB, 1600x1200, Demon insect.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18664143

>>18654708
What are some interesting ways to handle things like demons that you’ve seen?

>> No.18664179

So Worth the Candle's last chapter hit Patreon today, and it feels like it ended with a whimper and not a bang. The last couple chapter batches have definitely felt like the author decided it was time to end the story and was just speed-running getting to the ending, but god damn is the ending a disappointment.

The last chapter breaks that fourth wall and has the DM admit that the whole adventure is literally just a story being written so the author can emotionally process events from his life. That's it. No grand reveals, no emotional conversations. Just an in-universe retelling of that blog post that Alexander Wales put up a few months ago explaining that Juniper was basically a self-insert. None of the cast other than Juniper is there...except for a copy of Fenn that shows up at last minute to reveal that she's fucking somebody else. Man, this story had the weirdest fucking relationship with sex.

>> No.18664184

>>18664179
oof, okay
glad I only got on the ship last month

>> No.18664206

>>18664179
Authors think that ending their books with some deep philosophical meanings will take their work above the rest.

>> No.18664209

>>18664184
It's been a strange ride. It might work better if you're reading it all at once instead of getting stuff drip-fed, but it might just make some of the changes at the end more severe. A lot of the stuff that drove the early and middle parts of the story the game mechanics, conversations with the companions, exploring the strangeness of Aerb start atrophying, and what's left ends up feeling really self-indulgent. The extent to which the last few chapters have Juniper just talking to himself in his head feel like a big regression character wise.

>> No.18664296

>>18664035
Half-assed world building is worse than no world building.

>> No.18664350

>>18664296
No it isn't. In fact "half-assed world building" should be the preferred method of world-building since then you would be forced to focus on the plot, characters, and overall style of your story which are far, FAR more important than world-building.

>> No.18664360

>reading ASOIAF
>get to a feast for crows
>literally so fucking boring its taken me like 2 months to finish it

>> No.18664506

>tfw someone is downloading all your ERB books on soulseek
Beyond based.

>> No.18664515

>>18664360
I found ASOIAF as a whole, but especially in last two books, most enjoyable being read in small bits at a time. I was reading them two or three chapters in a day then putting it down. The books felt much more like a marathon where I had to pace myself than other books I've read. Try reading another book on the side and don't worry about finishing them fast.

>> No.18664569

>>18664506
Epic Rap Battle Books?
They wrote books?

>> No.18664580

>>18664506
ERB?

https://youtu.be/0N_RO-jL-90

>> No.18664666

>>18660730
Spending money on a book written for preteen girls just to spite random anons in sffg seems kinda dumb to me, but you do you.

Let us know what you think once you're done.

>> No.18664720

>goodreads recommending new becky chambers book before I can even find it on pirate sites
>I've got one of her books logged with a bad rating
lol, I was actually gonna try it before seeing this but they must have some bias in the recommendation alithogram for new books by well known authors/publishers for it to pop up immediately

>> No.18664740

I'm jealous of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Stands are a great magic system because you have a second body to represent their inner face and power.

>> No.18664777

Just finished up the first draft of a sword-and-sorcery novella heavily inspired by Conan, Elric and the Hyperborean saga. Couple questions since this is where most of my projects die.

>What's the best place to look for alpha/beta readers and get legitimately good feedback?
>If I wanted to self-publish my work online serially (with plans to later anthologize and sell traditionally), what's the best site for that?
>FWIW sword-and-sorcery is a pretty dead genre save for DMR books and Goodman Games, anywhere else to look for that sort of material to build my palette? I already have Kane on my list, what else should I check out?

>> No.18664779
File: 70 KB, 803x688, 1620652003765.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18664779

>tfw you didn't get into Wolfe until after the general was flooded by midwit Bakkerfags who have some weird fixation with Sanderson
>tfw Gene Wolfe's masterworks are overshadowed by a mediocre mishmash of LotR, Dune, and the NTR rape doujins Bakker touches himself to
>tfw you will never get to discuss the Solar Cycle on /sffg/

>> No.18664781

>>18664777
why would we know lol

>> No.18664798

>>18664779
>LotR
>mediocre
>Wolfe
>masterworks
Anon, I…

>> No.18664809

>>18664781
I dunno I have a pretty aescetic approach to creativity where I shun most modern/contemporary communities/scenes to avoid becoming derivative, so whenever I finish a draft I need to basically come crawling out of my cave to look for what to do next.

>> No.18664812

>>18664798
I said what I said. The Second Apocalypse is mediocre at best.

>> No.18664828

>>18664779
>tfw you'll never get to discuss one of the most circlejerked series here, one that even outer /lit/ started talking about once they realised wolfe was conversative
what the fuck are you talking about.

If you want to discuss something start discussing it instead of moaning that you 'won't be able to'

>> No.18664843

>>18660746
You’ll never fuck Denna, fatboy

>> No.18664847
File: 147 KB, 1000x717, Blurring the Lines.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18664847

>>18654708
Hey, I'm working on a setting where everything has a corresponding spirit, a bit like a combination of Plato and Shinto, with a hierarchy where each spirit is aligned with at least one of several spirits at the top of the hierarchy, who are essentially the gods of the setting. The thing is, I'm stuck on what aspects of existence should get a spirit at the very top of things, and I don't want to have too many to keep things from getting too complicated. I'm thinking that there'd be at least one that came into being relatively recently, corresponding to mortal thought and emotions as they grew to prominence and new spirits corresponding to them sparked into existence, but besides more abstract things like time, space, gravity, and so on, do you have any ideas on how I can divide things please?


In the last thread I asked this in, someone suggested 6-15 major spirits, what do you think, should I do more or less, and do you have any suggestions for their natures besides the one(s) related to thoughts and emotion? What about making things increasingly abstract as they get more powerful?

>> No.18664849

>>18664580
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1rNncd_7A

>> No.18664856

>>18664847
>a bit like a combination of Plato and Shinto
yeah or that phillip pullman trilogy

>> No.18664872

>>18664812
Wolfe isn’t bad, but his insistence on “muh liminality, muh indeterminacy” gets annoying after awhile. His fragmentary narrative reads like a series of somewhat disconnected sketches. It’s ponderous and lacks the stakes of Tolkien and Bakker.

I like the world he built, though.

>> No.18664878

>>18664039
>>18664033
It doesn't matter. When it was in the thread no one read together let alone discussed anyway. This is one of things where it sounds nice, but no one wants to do it in practice.

>> No.18664894

>>18664777
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, but make sure you read the stories in published/written order since the later stories are nowhere near as good as the earlier stories for the most part. If you want to check out some decent dindu S&S then read the first Imaro book by Charles Saunders. I can't comment on the other Imaro stories since, what I've read, they do unfortunately feature some WHYPEEPO BAD nonsense, but the stories in the first Imaro book are free of that shit and quite good. And you can never go wrong with some Clark Ashton Smith S&S.

http://leogrin.com/CimmerianBlog/the-sword-and-sorcery-legacy-of-clark-ashton-smith/
http://darkworldsquarterly.gwthomas.org/the-sword-sorcery-of-clark-ashton-smith/

And as far as modern S&S worth checking out you definitely need to read everything by Schuyler Hernstrom. He is the BEST modern writer of short S&S. He's also the best modern writer of Vancian short fiction.

>> No.18664926

How will I be notified when I receive a reply?

>> No.18664938

>>18664872
Can't really agree with you, teasing out details in Wolfe's writing through rereads never gets old for me. Could never really feel "stakes" in Bakker's writing since I don't really care about any of his characters.

Thinking about it now Garth Ennis has a lot of the same issues for me. Extreme edge and grittiness, if not done with care, often makes the world and characters feel artificial. It feels like the author doesn't really understand people and oversimplifies the complex reasons why they do such horrible things in real life.

>> No.18664982

>>18664779
sffg was BotNS circlejerk central for a solid year, Anon. Just hang around until Bakkerfags wear themselves out and we can go back to being /memewolfe/ again.

>> No.18664986

>>18660768
Ok Lindsay Ellis' girlfriend

>>18660785
1. Never. You really think he's still "working on it?" topkekekekekekekekekekekek. 2. Because Fat Rothfuck is a beta who's writing what he knows

>> No.18665016

>>18664938
>Could never really feel "stakes" in Bakker's writing since I don't really care about any of his characters.
Did you enjoy the books at least? I actually cared about Proyas, Achamian and Esmenet.

>> No.18665031

>>18654877
>female author

>> No.18665034

>>18664894
I've read all Smiths' Hyperborean work, it's some of my favorite stuff. And honestly Imaro looks perfectly tolerable in its racial politics, I'm getting a fun, funky, blaxploitation vibe from those stories. And Hernstrom is on my list as a DMR guy, but speaking of them, how is J. Christopher Tarpey's work? I'm a fan of his band Eternal Champion and I'm looking forward to seeing them live in September, but I'm curious to see if his prose is as good as his lyrical work.

>> No.18665036

>>18664847
> I'm thinking that there'd be at least one that came into being relatively recently, corresponding to mortal thought and emotions as they grew to prominence and new spirits corresponding to them sparked into existence
Maybe self-awareness, "being"?

>> No.18665044

>>18665016
I enjoyed the prose. I also enjoyed some of Bakker's ideas about consciousness and philosophy of mind, I think I'd rather just read a nonfiction book where he states his ideas plainly instead though.

>> No.18665064

>>18664894
>what I've read, they do unfortunately feature some WHYPEEPO BAD nonsense
what this retard is referring to is literal slavers appearing to buy slaves lol

>> No.18665069

>>18663234
I remember not liking Fire as much as True Names or Brin's Earth but it was ok

>> No.18665074

What is the best Fantasy or Scifi epic ever written? Best, not the most important or influential.

>> No.18665081

>>18655560
>It sounds vaguely like what was done in Mass Effect, and I've been trying to find books that capture that feeling.
It’s not really at all like Mass Effect other than large, Godlike spacecraft. The plot runs back and forth between some kids trapped on a world in its Medieval-like period and an ancient god-being bent on destroying/consuming everything taking over parts of the galaxy. The most interesting aspect is that stellar density and location in the galaxy affect the ability to think which divides the galaxy into zones of thought. You can get godlike AI way far out but it all fails as you get deeper into the galaxy.

>> No.18665105

>>18664777
Trad publishers rarely pick up work posted online. Unless you get yuge you're more likely to end up making it print on demand

>> No.18665115

>>18654798
>>18654721
Just read a sanderson book, gonna read bakker's ' The Darkness That Comes Before ' just from these reviews lool.

>> No.18665121

>>18665115
Good luck.

>> No.18665125
File: 37 KB, 320x498, sword and sorceress 3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18665125

Today I bought this. From the introduction:
>[. . .] I constantly receive stories that are perfectly good but the plot is obselete: a strong woman successfully challenges an anti-feminist society and is finally allowed to take up her place as a warrior or wizard.
>now there is nothing wrong with this story except - that it should now be taken for granted; yet I still receive many stories where the writer drags out all the old perfunctory anti-feminist arguments ("in this society/town/county we don't send a girl to do a man's work." . . . "Who ever heard of a woman warrior" . . . etc. etc. - for equally perfunctory rebuttal. The conclusion is all too predictable, especially by now, and in this particular anthology we know she'll win; there's no suspense, no real conflict.
>After three years of strong-female-protagonist stories we should be able to take our heroines for granted, in fantasy if not in real life.
The more time passes the more we regress.

>> No.18665131

>>18665016
>>18665044
Thinking about it I did like Achamian somewhat, Esmenet suffered many of the issues of Bakker's female characters where the biggest defining feature about them is that they are women before anything else. Some people on here mention this is a problem even in Neuropath where it's a contemporary novel, though I haven't read it. Didn't give a shit about Proyas though.

>> No.18665143

>>18665131
>Esmenet suffered many of the issues of Bakker's female characters where the biggest defining feature about them is that they are women before anything else.
>"Oh no! Women being women just like in real life is a big NO NO!!!"

>> No.18665145

>>18665125
That book came out like 40 years ago

>> No.18665163

>>18665143
If all the women in your life are exactly as Bakker portrays them then I completely understand not caring about them in any way. Doesn't make Bakker's characters less shitty though.

>> No.18665168

>>18664926

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8FiTSgP7ig&t=158s

>> No.18665177

>>18664035
>When you read a fantasy story that takes place in a realistic ecology do you expect the writer to devote page after page describing and explaining the plant life and animals?
No, but the reason why is that readers can reasonably be expected to already know how a realistic ecology works, given that they're living in one.
The same cannot be said for a fantasy ecology.

>> No.18665179

>>18664926
Install 4chanx, fagget

>> No.18665187

>>18664740
I don't know that there's anything for /lit/ to be jealous of. It's not something that would work outside of a cartoon or graphic novel. Imagine trying to write the novelization and describing what stands look like - it'd be a train wreck.

>> No.18665197

>>18654721
>It's compared to the Malazan Book of the Fallen but Ericson is light years ahead of this.
This is a true statement.

>> No.18665202

Didn't ask.

>> No.18665279

>>18665074
probably some autistic dude's labor of love that he never published

>> No.18665280

>>18665163
If you think Bakker women are beyond the pale, you're either very sheltered or deluded. Every Podunk shithole in America has at least a few hundred worse than Esmenet.

Glen Cook's women make me jealous as fuck though. I wish I could see the world like he does.

>> No.18665290

>>18665280
>Every Podunk shithole in America has at least a few hundred worse than Esmenet.
Americans aren't human so that makes sense. Can't really comment about Glen Cook since I've only read the first of the Black Company series.

>> No.18665292

>>18665279
What is the best Fantasy or Scifi epic ever published? Best, not the most important or influential

>> No.18665300

>>18665290
Nice try, chinky.

>> No.18665311

>>18665300
>No u
Thank you for illustrating my point, Amerimongrel.

>> No.18665343

>>18665177
>The same cannot be said for a fantasy ecology.
The reader would LEARN how it works through the characters interactions with it; not devoting pages and pages to explaining the how and why of it. This is the problem with the zoomer generation; they need EVERYTHING explained to them within a realistic context or else they simply can't use their imaginations otherwise. Why would a writer need to explain WHY a character is using a giant butterfly that farts fireballs as a mount instead of the reader simply accepting that giant butterflies that fart fireballs are used as mounts in this world?

>> No.18665354

>>18665064
I could have explained that better, but what I meant to say is I have ONLY read the first Imaro book and it doesn't feature any WHYPEEPO BAD bullshit. But I have read comments and reviews from other people who have read the Imaro stories I have not that say that shit does show up. So fuck off, faggot.

>> No.18665357

>>18665311
You're welcome, yellow rice penis.

>> No.18665363

>>18665354
Never happened.

>> No.18665376

>>18665034
>how is J. Christopher Tarpey's work?
His S&S is definitely decent, but the influence of RPGs is pretty obvious. The first story I read of his felt like I was almost reading WoW fan fiction, but it was still fine.

>> No.18665381

>>18665363
Prove it.

>> No.18665385

>>18665354
>I actually was just making shit up
thanks, really glad you're the one spouting off about books to people here

>> No.18665390

>>18665343
It's obvious that Sanderson's popularity is responsible for the current trend of fantasy autistically explaining every facet of the world building but after seeing how many of his fans either weren't big fantasy readers and/or exclusively read YA fantasy I guarantee they didn't like fantasy before because they couldn't understand the worldbuilding without it being spelled out for them

>> No.18665408

>>18665385
What did I make up? I explained myself better, you retard. I said I enjoyed the first Imaro book, but haven't read any of the other stories, but what I've read ABOUT them said that Sanders does dip his toes into the racial shit. I would be perfectly happy if that wasn't the case so calm down, dummy.

>> No.18665418

>>18665408
Anon, just stop, it's pathetic.

>> No.18665420

>>18665390
That's the worst part of the focus on world-building; all the actual 'fantasy' gets sucked right out of it. When you focus so much on the world-building you end up anally explaining everything away to where nothing comes across as fantastical and mysterious. Magic systems are the worst culprits.

>> No.18665424

>>18665418
It's not my fault you can't comprehend what I'm posting. Please go be triggered somewhere else; you're obviously too sensitive to post here.

>> No.18665428

>>18665424
Anon, no need to get defensive.

>> No.18665430

New thread
>>18665429

>> No.18665436

>>18665125
yikes imagine reading this shit

>> No.18665438

>>18665428
You're seething.

>> No.18665452

>>18665438
now you're just projecting.

>> No.18665489

>>18665290
Cook's waifucraft in his later works is severely underappreciated, and it only seems to get sharper as he ages.

>> No.18665543
File: 11 KB, 480x118, adamantforeskinleddit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18665543

Anyone here know of any good fantasy yaoi?

>> No.18665546

>>18665543
Prince of Nothing.

>>
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