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File: 177 KB, 755x755, Article319418_21-no-violence.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1865209 No.1865209 [Reply] [Original]

Is violence ever justified?

I think it can be in certain situations.

Like for example, when a person refuses to reason or listen to the truth (that is, recognize the most probable cause and effect relationships).

For example, your a busy father whom has recently discovered that your daughter/son has been developing a cocaine addiction. You confront him/her in a loving manner and attempt to bring him/her back to the person they used to be.

You try everything: reasoning, pleading, begging, affection, love, reverse psychology, intervention, negative punishment, positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, but nothing seems to work.

What do you do? How much do you love your offspring? Enough to hurt them in order to help them?

You're then left with positive punishment.

You've heard the expression before "spare the rod and spoil the child": also "this hurts me much more than it hurts you".

Well, I've given it some thought, and after I heard this quote "Parents who punish their children love their children much more than permissive parents, because they do what is best for the child".

If my daughter/son developed a cocaine addiction, I would try my best to use my knowledge of psychology to get to the root of the problem.

But if the problem is simply that they are following a fad, or being rebellious simply for the sake of it, what choice are you left with other than to slap them silly if all else fails?


I now open the floor.

>> No.1865211

I think it's justified if it is to stop a greater act of violence.

>> No.1865214

I only think it's ok to torture religionisticals. But not so they die fast, they need to suffer a litle as well.

I think this is reasonable and completely justified. But it's just my opinion. Maybe it costs too much to hunt them down and kill their children..I don't know.

>> No.1865242

I think violence is justified in stopping violence. If some guy jumps you on the street and demands your money while pointing a knife at you, you'll either give him your money or hit him.

>> No.1865248

>>1865209
You really think beating your kid would discourage them from continuing using cocaine?

If anything this would likely have the opposite effect...

>> No.1865255

I asked a question like this last night(?) and I was basically told to shut the fuck up, stop samefagging, go away, and do my own homework.

>> No.1865257

>>1865248
Associating positive punishment (pain) with a certain undesirable behaviour, has been proven time and time again (classical conditioning).

Operant-conditioning is another way to go, but that fails when your patient refuses to reason or recognize the truth.

>> No.1865267

>>1865257

>implying people in broader society work the way rats and children do

>> No.1865268

>>1865209
Something similar to this happened down my street earlier this month.
A young girl, around 17 had formed a meth habit and tried to steal from her 40year old mother, her step-dad restrained her and her mother duct taped her hands and ankles to stop her leaving. the girl got a hold of a mobile and phoned the police, now her step-dad is up for assault and her mom for kidnapping and intent to harm. thats ridiculous, violence can be justified.

>> No.1865274

>>1865268

Why didn't they just call the cops on her?

>> No.1865279
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1865279

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
You're incompetent if you use it as a LAST resort.

There are some outcomes that Violence should be chosen in preference to. These are very bad outcomes that historians will love to lecture you about.

>> No.1865283

>>1865274
They wanted to get her clean, not jailed.

>> No.1865287

>>1865283

Why wasn't she smoking the shit she had on her?

>> No.1865303

Anytime it'll prevent some greater harm, respects the autonomy of non-others-harming individuals, and actually makes sense to do.

Your example's iffy on the second point and makes no sense at all on the third. You could make a case for kidnapping her to a rehab clinic, but slapping her?

>> No.1865304
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1865304

>>1865267
>implying people in broader society do not work the way rats and children do

>> No.1865311

>>1865283
>jailed

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/drugs/Pages/Drugtreatment.aspx

>> No.1865321

Any interaction with another human being involves exerting your will over them in some way - starting or ending a conversation, the choice of language you use, persuasive body language, etc. Violence can be considered as another way of exerting your will upon someone, in which case any moral qualms you have with violence you should have with the very nature of communication itself. No one ever asks if talking with someone is ever justified, do they.

>> No.1865326
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1865326

>people itt think they, or anyone, are worthy of being violent utilitarianist authorities.

fucken psychopaths.

>> No.1865329

Your response for cocaine addiction is physical harm?
Thats just objectively wrong

>> No.1865341

>>1865329
This.
>>1865209
I don't understand why you chose cocaine addiction as your example. Imposing your will on an addict by forcing them to rehab is a violent action. And I thought maybe this was where you were going.
>what choice are you left with other than to slap them silly if all else fails?
Physical violence, specifically beating someone, is another thing.
>Is violence ever justified?
Gandhi himself did not even make the claim that violence could never be justified. (I will try to find the source for this, but) In one of his writings he said that if a madman was going around murdering people in a town, you can't just let them.

>> No.1865343
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1865343

>>1865329
What do you think strapping someone down to a bed in a rehab clinic is doing? Giving them pleasure or causing them pain?

Yeah, thought so.

>> No.1865350

>>1865343

uh there's actually nothing in the post you quoted that advocates mandatory rehab for addicts but good work kicking that strawman's ass i guess

>> No.1865358

I have sworn a solemn vow never to harm another living creature unless it annoys me in some way.

>> No.1865361
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1865361

>>1865350
You're cute.

>> No.1865362

>>1865341
Does anyone else know what I'm referencing here?
We were studying Gandhi's philosophy and the concept of ahimsa. There was one hypothetical similar to what I mentioned but I can't remember exactly what it was. I think he was conceding that violence could hypothetically be necessary to stop an individual, versus advocating social change with violence.

>> No.1865473

Of the possibly thousands of codes of Justice in History, many of them had methods for delivering punishment, often in violent forms.

I think the bigger question is there a code of Justice that is relevant, outside of its authority and ability to punish.

>> No.1865477

>your a busy father whom has
wtfamireading.jpg
Learn 2 grammar, OP.

>> No.1865515

>>1865477
want to be my editor?