/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18642414]

When did you realise Hedonism is correct?

[Anonymous No.18642420]

Each time when I blow my load

[Anonymous No.18642429]

>hedonism is degenerate... why... because... uhhh.... it just is okay!?!?

[Anonymous No.18642440]

>>18642414
I will say hedonism/naturalism helped me a lot to organize my life and understand how motivation works on an analytical level. But hedonism lacks the understanding of potentiality and the spiritual component of the human psyche

That is why reading Spinoza and the existentialists are the perfect combo

[Anonymous No.18642442]

>>18642414
Constant pleasure and gratification actually downregulates the dopaminergic system in the brain, leading to a lessened ability to experience pleasure and anhedonia. "Hedonism" turns out to not be hedonistic at all, since more pleasure can be had overall by delaying gratification.

[Anonymous No.18642448]

>>18642442
/thread

[Anonymous No.18642466]

>>18642442
>>18642448
this would be taken into consideration by hedonists at the outset

[Anonymous No.18642469]

>this would be taken into consideration by hedonists at the outset

[Anonymous No.18642475]

>>18642469
Hedonism is the mental equivalent of being addicted to cigarettes

[Anonymous No.18642478]

>>18642440
>I will say hedonism/naturalism helped me
how

[Anonymous No.18642484]

>>18642478
there is nothing wrong with relying on logic from time to time. I never settle for a single world view

[Anonymous No.18642485]

>>18642466
>tmw you realize that the most fun to be had is to become a saint

[Anonymous No.18642486]

>>18642442
This is complete broscience lol, there's literally zero scientific evidence humans experience tolerance to dopamine, in fact there's plenty of evidence to the contrary.

[Anonymous No.18642499]

>>18642475
Kind of. It's the philosophical equivalent of doing MDMA; it feels great while your at it, but the time following that will be hell.

[Anonymous No.18642502]

>>18642414
When I realised that belief in afterlife is simply hedonism postponed until after death hence the phrasing like "eternal unity with God is eternal happiness" etc. Even cuckstianity couldn't rid itself of the obvious observation that pleasurable = good

[Anonymous No.18642507]

>>18642442
Yeah but Epicurus didn't deny this. He explicitly advocated for moderation when it comes to pleasure precisely because constant pleasure makes you insensitive to experience further pleasure

[Anonymous No.18642509]

>>18642486
Not true. Hypothetically, a hedonistic society wouldn't sustain constant pleasure, nor would that be possible. Fluctuation of emotions is more pragmatic for an endearing life. Pleasure is subjective and socially get moulded to the normal, therefore a tolerance is built by sheer life experience.

[Anonymous No.18642512]

Yet another thread where people literally don't know what hedonism means.

[Anonymous No.18642514]

>>18642442
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4425246/
Dopamine elevations produce higher ‘wanting’ without higher ‘liking’?
Conversely, dopamine stimulations do not reliably cause pleasure. Dopamine elevations in NAc fail to enhance ‘liking’ for sweetness, despite increasing motivational ‘wanting’ to obtain the same rewards (e.g., higher runway performance of hyper-dopaminergic mutant mice; higher peaks of cue-triggered effort to obtain sucrose reward, increases in reward consumption, and higher peaks of neural firing in NAc-VP circuits that encode cue-triggered ‘wanting’)(Pecina and Berridge, 2013; Peciña et al., 2003; Smith et al., 2011; Wyvell and Berridge, 2000). In people, L-DOPA-evoked surges in brain dopamine levels do not increase subjective pleasure ratings (Liggins et al., 2012). The intensity of dopamine NAc surges even when evoked by addictive drugs (e.g., amphetamine) correlates rather poorly with subjective liking ratings - but correlates much better with wanting ratings (Evans et al., 2006; Leyton et al., 2002). Examples of ‘wanting’-without-‘liking’ induced by dopamine stimulation also come from compulsive motivations induced in Parkinson’s patients treated with high-doses of dopamine agonists, especially direct D2/D3 receptor agonists (O'Sullivan et al., 2009). Those intense motivations range from gambling to shopping, pornography, internet, hobbies, addictive drugs, or taking excessive medication in addictive fashion (Callesen et al., 2013; Friedman and Chang, 2013; Ondo and Lai, 2008; Politis et al., 2013). Yet these cases typically do not report intense pleasure.

[Anonymous No.18642520]

>>18642486
Wrong, coomer:
>Dopamine receptors are typically stable, however sharp (and sometimes prolonged) increases or decreases in dopamine levels can downregulate (reduce the numbers of) or upregulate (increase the numbers of) dopamine receptors.[41]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor

[Anonymous No.18642532]

>>18642520
So explain heroin addicts and grossly obese people then anon. If dopamine tolerance was a thing, these people would literally not exist because the pleasure they received from constantly engaging in that behavior would stop.

[Anonymous No.18642578]

>>18642532
Simple. Their dopamine receptors get downregulated with each hit of heroin. They end up needing more and more heroin to feel the same high, because of desensitized receptors. Then when they're unable to sustain their addiction, they experience massive withdrawal and anhedonia, because their endogenous dopamine is not nearly enough.
A similar thing which most will be able to relate to is caffeine tolerance. Caffeine is an adenosine receptor antagonist. Drink coffee the first time, it sends you to the moon. Keep drinking it every day, and your brain will start upregulating adenosine receptors to preserve homeostasis. You need to drink more and more caffeine every day to achieve the same effect, until eventually, it no longer has an effect, all it does it bring you to baseline. Abstain from caffeine for a few months, then have some espresso shots, it will be like that first time again, you'll be a jittery mess (I did this, took 200 mg caffeine in the morning after 3 months of abstinence, and I couldn't even sleep that NIGHT).

[Anonymous No.18642644]

>>18642578
You're conflating two things grossly. I never said people don't develop a tolerance towards a substance, I said they didn't develop a tolerance towards dopamine, meaning a person who is normal psychologically and physically, will never not experience pleasure from an orgasm or from eating chocolate.

[Anonymous No.18642677]

>>18642414
Yes, but of the Epicurean kind where it's actually closer to asceticism.

[Anonymous No.18642685]

>>18642644
>meaning a person who is normal psychologically and physically, will never not experience pleasure from an orgasm or from eating chocolate.
They will experience less pleasure, because of less dopamine receptors. I mean I've experienced this myself. Cooming after a month of abstinence feels amazing and mind-blowing, whereas it was so meh when I coomed 3 times a day.
Anyway, the bottom line here is that constantly shooting heroin, drinking and eating pizza all day leaves you feeling worse, at baseline, than if you weren't doing that stuff.
>According to one study,[44] cocaine, heroin, amphetamine, alcohol, and nicotine cause decreases in D2 receptor quantity. A similar association has been linked to food addiction, with a low availability of dopamine receptors present in people with greater food intake.[45][46]

[Anonymous No.18642705]

>>18642685
>They will experience less pleasure

No they won't, they will just need more of the drug to experience the pleasure, but that doesn't mean they become incapable of experiencing pleasure at all. If what you are saying was true, this would mean that heroin addicts would need to eat 50 kilos of chocolate to experience the same pleasure from it as a normal person.

[Anonymous No.18642724]

This thread was moved to >>>/his/11537503