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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.18604759 [Reply] [Original]

>you'll own nothing and you will be happy

>> No.18604761

>>18604759
Marcus Aurelius totally didn't own anything as an emperor. You're right OP. You're not a retard or anything.

>> No.18604772

Stoicism is an aristocratic perspective. Although veneered in asceticism and a poverty of desires, its true character is altogether lofty and magnanimous. One turns away from the world and to the divine- that's not a tendency of the vulgar masses, outside of romantic stereotypes. It's a tendency of the rich, heeled, and well-to-do. Aurelius was an emperor, Seneca was carried around in a sedan between estates by teams of slaves, Epictetus ran a school for the privileged to study philosophy. Today its advocates are executives, pro athletes, venture capitalists. And people think this is a worldview for coping with hard times! On the contrary its advocates have never truly known hard times. They are so showered in fortune they need a framework to transcend the hierarchy they've already summitted. Stoics are not struggling with setbacks, they're struggling with success. The philosophy of aloof detachment from externals they espouse serves to lengthen the distance between them and the common man. A king is not only not distressed by the lives of the peasants, he cannot even relate to them, theyre as inconsequential to him as beasts in the field. This is the exact perspective of stoicism toward everything in the world. What kind of commoner can afford that kind of detachment? Only men of wealth and means can pay the costs incurred by caring for nothing but their personal virtue. The more resources you have, the less you need fear loss. The more options you have, the less you need fear chance. Normal people by definition have only a normal amount of these things. Having a huge surplus of them is what makes one an elite, an outlier at the top. And this is why it's the rich and powerful who you find pushing stoicism, contrary to its facade of folksy humility. It is the philosophy of the 1%, and not fit for common people.

>> No.18604879

Try reading them

>> No.18605167

>>18604772
Good post.
Have a bump for this shit thread.

>> No.18605180

>>18604772
based

>> No.18605251

>>18604772
But isn't there something disingenuous about it? They put on a folksy facade of humbleness, and they speak of stoicism as some kind of miracle philosophy that will help you get through the struggles and deal with the pain of achieveing what you desire, the process of "making it". But in actuality nobody struggling adopts it, it only comes after the truely hard times are past.

>> No.18605279
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>>18604759
and..? next OP will detail to the board how the masses are better suited in determining the technician role despite being ill suited to the post of the judge, of the decider and ultimately of the consequence receiver. not the glossy, pseudo-science they push out to the masses, but true consequences.
the aristocracy, hidden from plain sight, are born in the assuming position for that role. not only have their genes been held to a standard above the masses and with the help of undisclosed biotech, are now capable of being genetically modified from egg to birth with the most favorable of traits; their education, their upbringing is that of a ruler.
One thing must be made clear..technology or the motive, technique, needs no technician, it develops on its own; however, to leave it alone for just anyone's hands would mean chaos...Don't tell me u like chaos? I hate fkn chaos. Fuck chaos. and this is why the technician role is better suited for the steers of history; as it should, as it will be and as it will remain.

>> No.18605351

>>18605251
>nobody struggling adopts it
I can say from my case, that although I struggle as fuck with nearly everything and found stoicism helped me distance myself from my failures and preconceptions about myself and others.

>> No.18605368

>>18604772
nice post

>> No.18605378

>>18604772
This is a complete misinterpretation.

>> No.18605438

>>18604772
Seriously? How could you type this all up when Seneca was banished and then told to kill himself, Epictetus was abused by his slaver who broke his leg leaving him cripped and Marcus died in a filthy legion camp in Serbia after campaigning for nearly 12 years.

>> No.18606854

>>18604772
> stoics are like X
> X did Y
> therefore, stoics do Y

fuck off

>> No.18606898

>>18604772
This is so based I suffered through the captcha to reply. Anecdotal evidence: stoicism is big in Silicon Valley. They think it's about personal improvement - mindfulness they call it at Facebook - but it certainly sounds like justifying their bubble of existence.

>> No.18606967

>>18604772
Retarded pasta. Epictetus was literally born a slave.

Stoicism is something that trancends class and status. It evolved from the teachings of the Cynics which was essentially preaching the same thing, It was after all practiced by many wealthy Greeks. You may be right in the sense that it is a philosophy for an aristocrat, so would Diogenes, Crates, and Hipparchia, the cynics be nobility as well? That's what sets the stoic apart from the the hedonist, he is a king, a king under God, while the epicurean is just a damned fool.

But somehow the better alternative, the philosophy for the common man was founded by a Epicurus who justified his entire lifestyle of throwing symposiums off of daddy's money as the chief goal in life. You all have no sense of self-awareness.

>> No.18606976

>>18604772
irreducibly based

>> No.18607021

>>18605438
I concur.

>> No.18607036

I bet most stoic critics haven't even read any stoic material and just judge it based on preconceived notions of "le reddit philosophy".

>> No.18607062

>>18604772
This is proof you can post something factually incorrect, contextless, or just dumb and regards will still give (You)s saying based

>> No.18607117

>>18607062
Based

>> No.18607130

>>18604759
Wasn't Seneca really rich despite being a stoic as well?

>> No.18607209

>>18607062
>One turns away from the world and to the divine- that's not a tendency of the vulgar masses, outside of romantic stereotypes. It's a tendency of the rich, heeled, and well-to-do.

explain how this is
>factually incorrect, contextless, or just dumb

>> No.18607253

>>18607209
Where in meditations does it say to 'turn away from the world and the divine'? I believe it says quite the opposite actually.

>> No.18607265
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>> No.18607299

>>18607036
based.
terrible that Stoicism is hijacked by fags now.

>> No.18607455

>>18607253
>Where in meditations

Fucking midwit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia
>Eudaimonia (Greek: εὐδαιμονία [eu̯dai̯moníaː]; sometimes anglicized as eudaemonia or eudemonia, /juːdJˈmoʊniə/) is a Greek word commonly translated as 'happiness' or 'welfare'; however, more accurate translations have been proposed to be 'human flourishing, prosperity'[1] and 'blessedness'.[2]

>In the work of Aristotle, eudaimonia (based on older Greek tradition) was used as the term for the highest human good, and so it is the aim of practical philosophy, including ethics and political philosophy, to consider (and also experience) what it really is, and how it can be achieved. It is thus a central concept in Aristotelian ethics and subsequent Hellenistic philosophy, along with the terms aretē (most often translated as 'virtue' or 'excellence') and phronesis" ('practical or ethical wisdom').[3]

https://iep.utm.edu/stoiceth/
>Stoicism is known as a eudaimonistic theory, which means that the culmination of human endeavor or ‘end’ (telos) is eudaimonia, meaning very roughly “happiness” or “flourishing.” The Stoics defined this end as “living in agreement with nature.” “Nature” is a complex and multivalent concept for the Stoics, and so their definition of the goal or final end of human striving is very rich.

>The first sense of the definition is living in accordance with nature as a whole, i.e. the entire cosmos. Cosmic nature (the universe), the Stoics firmly believed, is a rationally organized and well-ordered system, and indeed coextensive with the will of Zeus, the impersonal god. Consequently, all events that occur within the universe fit within a coherent, well-structured scheme that is providential. Since there is no room for chance within this rationally ordered system, the Stoics’ metaphysical determinism further dictated that this cosmic Nature is identical to fate. Thus at this level, “living in agreement with nature” means conforming one’s will with the sequence of events that are fated to occur in the rationally constituted universe, as providentially willed by Zeus.

Meditations doesn't begin to explain the breadth of Greek culture.

>> No.18607577

>>18607209
>explain how this is
Because the impression that post gives is that all three of those stoics lived in detached comfort -- when even just skimming their Wikipedia entries will tell you the opposite.

>> No.18607857

>>18604761
the fuck is that post? it's irrelevant what Marcus Aurelius owned. the point is not that stoicism forbids owning things but that it promotes status quo. to a wage slave, stoicism still recommends to not require much (i.e. accept low wages) and to do his work for the capitalist without complaints. literal cuck morality.

>> No.18607863

>>18606967
>Epictetus was literally born a slave.
Who sucked the cocks of elite his whole life

>> No.18607886

>>18607130
Yes he was multi millionaire

>> No.18607894

>>18607857
Stop projecting your own behavior into stoicism.

>> No.18607940

>>18604772
None of those people (Seneca, Epictetus, Marcus) lead easy lives at all. Marcus had to deal with encroaching Germanians and Sarmatians, accompanying his troops on campaign, while simultaneously dealing with a plague ravaging his empire. He died of plague in a tent on the outskirts of the empire. Epictetus was LITERALLY A SLAVE.

But watch the cattle lap up your uninformed post.

>> No.18608013

It amuses me that people simp for Epictetus by pointing out the, I think, universally understood fact that he was a slave for some time, but they seem unwilling to come around and admit that by the time of what we read in the Discourses and Enchiridion, he was a free man running a school for wealthy elites, the equivalent of a president of Harvard nowadays. Do you feel like you have much in common?

>> No.18608030

>>18608013
would he have achieved that if he wasn't stoic (pronounced stoyk)?

>> No.18608042

>>18607940
So if anything, your average gibsmedat ghetto trash living on government benefits, or anyone in a European country with free healthcare, is living a far easier life than any of those three Stoics.

>> No.18608070

>>18608013
>Early in life, Epictetus acquired a passion for philosophy and, with the permission of his wealthy enslaver, he studied Stoic philosophy under Musonius Rufus.[11] Becoming more educated in this way raised his social status.[12] At some point, he became disabled. Origen wrote that this was because his leg had been deliberately broken by his enslaver.[13]
He was a Stoic even while still an abused slave.

>> No.18608081

>>18607894
if this described my behaviour, then I wouldn't oppose it. stoicism is a product for people who seek to reconcile themselves with the current social order, because they can't bear the negative emotions it generates in them, they lack the motivation to deal with its demands, and they gave up on confronting it and contributing to changing it. granted, this is very understandable: one can't do much about the situation and little will probably change in one's lifetime no matter what one chooses, so why not just brainwash yourself into becoming content with the state of cuckoldry?

Jordan Peterson's stuff works similarly, by the way, but it grew more popular than stoicism because it takes a slightly different route to reconciliation: it reinforces and reignites the belief in the promise that if you learn the rules for life and work hard, you might rise in the hierarchy. he still skillfully uses a stoicism-like play though and lowers the expectations by reminding that life is suffering.

>> No.18608090

>>18608013
Who was freed by tradition after his master died, and then was expelled from Rome by Domitian.

>> No.18608091

>>18608070
He became what he was due to the generosity of his wealthy enslaver. Wealth was clearly involve here

>> No.18608111

>>18608091
So because his owner was wealthy, that invalidates his philosophy?

>> No.18608119

>>18607455
Still doesn't tell me where in stoicism one 'turns away from the world and the divine.'

>> No.18608133

>>18607863
>sucked elite cock
>somehow remembered more than his master
>founded his own school after being freed
>rubbed elbows with Roman emperor
>More people have read his work than people who know more than 5% of the Roman senators
>Sucking elite cock

If anything, the elite were sucking his cock.

>> No.18608142

>>18608081
Cuck this, cuckold that. You blind yourself with bring unable to frame reality as it is.

There are things that are in your control, and there are things not in your control. This isn't just a Stoic thing. That's just the way it is.

>> No.18608147

>>18608142
>bring
*being

>> No.18608168

>>18608111
Of course.
The aristocratic environment of his enslaver impacted him. There is no Epictetus without his wealthy and generous slave master.

>> No.18608176
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>>18604772
turning away from the world and to the divine (capital)

>> No.18608198

>>18608119
filtered. ngmi. but i'll respond for the audience's sake

>“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.”
>“Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together,but do so with all your heart.”
>“Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself in your way of thinking.”
>“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

Pulled directly from Meditations. Learn from this encounter or don't-- it makes no difference to me.

>> No.18608201

Every time there is a stoic thread, dozens of people who have never read any of the literature come out and start arguing against some retarded version of stoicism they made up in their heads. Why does this happen?

>> No.18608219

>>18608168
This is the same argument that tries to discredit Buddha for his wealth. Let the idea stand on its own, there are plenty of people in real struggles who stoicism has helped, I can attest to that.

>> No.18608220

>>18608198
What the fuck are you talking about? Is loving the people around you turning away from the world? You're completely misinterpreting the text. And not even some advanced level of it, but just the bare minimum surface meaning. Dumb fucker

>> No.18608232

>>18608198
In accepting his fate he is doing the opposite of turning away from the world and the divine. He is accepting of his divine given lot. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

>> No.18608251

>>18608201
It's like a single guy who is obsessed with misrepresentating Stoicsm. Just check the archive, this type of thread that portrays Stoicism as cuck or s*y happens every few days.

>> No.18608261

>>18608220
>>18608232
He is accepting Zeus' reign of the cosmos instead of trying to control it to satisfy his own desires. Eudaimonia comes from submission, not willed effort. Accept reality as it is without complaint.

>> No.18608273

>>18608261
>Accept reality as it is without complaint.
Kek
Why the fuck Epictetus became a student of a Stoic teacher? He should have remained a slave.

>> No.18608282

>>18608273
>Why the fuck Epictetus became a student of a Stoic teacher? He should have remained a slave.
I don't give a fuck about Epictetus' soul and neither should you. Accept his faults for what they are and worry about your own.

>> No.18608295

>>18608282
Stop complaining about my post retard and accept that shit as it is.

>> No.18608302

>>18608261
Then what I said at first was right, stoicism is not then 'going against the divine' according to what your saying it's the exact opposite.

>> No.18608309

>>18608295
Where's the complaint? You asked a question on a open forum.

>> No.18608311

>>18608302
...I will admit that I misread your post entirely. Stoicism is entirely about turning toward the divine. I've led us in circles, my mistake. Forgive me.

>> No.18608315

>>18608309
Me not worrying about my faults is a complaint about myself to myself from yourself.

>> No.18608317

>>18608311
Thanks for admitting when you're mistaken.

>> No.18608321

>>18608315
I am a different Anon from >>18608282 . I was just asking a question.

>> No.18608323

>>18608317
>One turns away from the world and to the divine
In my defense, the original quote we were referencing was
>One turns away from the world and to the divine
and not,
>turns away from the world and the divine.'
That said, I should've caught that. Cheers

>> No.18608332

>>18608323
goodness I can't quote for shit. you get what I meant-- carry on

>> No.18608334

>>18608323
Ah, it seems I misread the original post. Still don't agree with it however.

>> No.18608352

>>18607857
>stoicism still recommends to not require much
Yes.
>i.e. accept low wages and to do his work for the capitalist without complaints. literal cuck morality.
No.

You clearly do not understand Stoicism.

>> No.18608356

>>18607857
That's not stoicism is at all retard. Holy fuck, you leftists should just stop posting. You people are mentally retarded, and think everything is an anti-communist plot. Go outside.

>> No.18608390
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[ERROR]

It seems the main reason people are filtered by Stoicism is because they do not understand Fate.

How do you guys think one knows his own fate?

>> No.18608399

>>18608334
I think its a translation issue desu. Westerners tend to think of divinity as this anthropomorphic figure like the God of Judaism/Christianity/Islam. The Greeks viewed it more abstractly, and the bulk of their Philosophy is an attempt to define it. If I were to try my best to salvage "turn to the divine" I would rephrase it as "turn to the virtues of the mind," because your character(or mind) is at least entirely within your control. No one can take away your patience, or kindness, unless you allow it. This alone, in my opinion, makes it the highest good one can possess, as all others can be taken away by external factors.

I'll admit though that there are illnesses or circumstances that can make practicing virtue difficult, like an accident leaving you in a vegetative state. I'm not entirely sure if the whole virtue thing holds up metaphysically, but its a better way to live than chasing consumerist culture.

>> No.18608412

>>18604772
Absolutely retarded. Comparing current day Silicon Valley McMindfulness and pseudo stoic drivel with the only purpose of extracting more productivity from their miserable human cattle with the actual stoic philosophy is so retarded I don't even know where to begin.

>> No.18608417

>>18608042
I mean, yeah. The majority of people today lead vastly more comfortable lives than those from Ancient Greece, that should go without saying

>> No.18608424

>>18608356
it's ironic for you to claim that I'm misrepresenting it and then to attribute a made-up view to me. I don't claim it to be an anti-communist plot. I explained here >>18608081 that it is an intellectual device for individual reconciliation. it's renaissance isn't due to any secret plot but is a natural consequence of the need for reconciliation having increased because of capitalist stagnation in the West paired with the continued decline of grand narratives following the end of the Cold War

>> No.18608429

>>18605251
>But in actuality nobody struggling adopts it
And what makes you so sure of that?

>> No.18608441

>>18607857
>but that it promotes status quo
What is the Stoic Opposition?
What Was the Roman Civil Wars and Caesar's assassination?
Stoicism is not about standing with the status quo, it's about being unwavering and obstinate within your own code.

>> No.18608469

>>18608441
all power struggles within the elites that happened regardless of the content of stoicism

>> No.18608477

>>18604772
>The more resources you have, the less you need fear loss. The more options you have, the less you need fear chance. Normal people by definition have only a normal amount of these things.
Dumbass poorfag the more you have the more you can lose. If you are miserly about every last thing you own, something you are probably familiar with, of course you won't understand the stoic mindset of equipose. Imagine if you actually had vast resources and were attached to them the way a "normal" person is. You'd go insane—it's too much to singularly cling to each and every possession. The stoic takes these things as they are, knowing they are both asset and burden, and views them with indifference. And this is really the only stable, "virtuous," means of "ruling," whether it is a household or an empire, to know it's all just stuff and not The Precious.

>> No.18608492

>>18608417
They're all obese and a quarter of them or more are celibate despite being atheists. A roman peasant's life was much more kino, he had more women, more gods, more wine, more land, more everything except shiny gadgets.

>> No.18608507

>>18604772
too based for /lit/

>> No.18608515

>>18608469
The nigger that stabbed him Brutus, was a stoic. Brutus' wife Portia, daughter of the stoic Cato who waged war against Julius, was also a stoic and went bat-shit insane when Brutus wouldn't tell her that he was going to kill Julius. She stabbed herself in the leg to prove that she deserved to know.

Niggas really out here thinking stoicism doesn't affect events and that it's a philosophy of inaction.

>> No.18608531

>>18605279
Meds or /x/

>> No.18608541

>>18608515
>thinking stoicism doesn't affect events and that it's a philosophy of inaction.
Yes it's another episode of irony-poisoned bugmen thinking everything everyone else does is a cope; this is why the United States fought the Taliban for twenty fucking years and lost, because other people couldn't possibly have values.

>> No.18608556

>>18608477
>Dumbass poorfag the more you have the more you can lose.
retardedly wrong. if you have a lot, you have a big safety net and in 99.99% of the situations all you will lose is super-comfortable life, remaining with just "comfortable". that's a smaller loss than losing a place to live, or your life itself because you can't afford an expensive operation

>>18608515
about as relevant as Hitler being a vegetarian

>> No.18608561

>>18604759
>you can own nothing and still be happy
fixed

>> No.18608570

>>18608390
People shit on Stoicism because it's been a fad for over a decade and is now peak plebbit. If you wanted to hype Stoicism up as something cool, you should go with the angle of everything being made of fire therefore you should worship multiple Gods because MUH IDEALISM MUH MIND OF ZEUS MUH RATIONAL MATTER.

Instead you go with ebin tradcath zoomers LARPing on twitter and redditors babbling about how dude... like... what if... you don't let sh!t... f*cking get to you... b@d@ss, dude...

>> No.18608576

>>18608561
unironically based.

>> No.18608581

>>18608477
>stupid nigger autist who probably makes like $60k a year tops doing coding or something similarly autistic doesnt understand the all too real concept of "too big to fail" that applies to literally every oligarch in existence

>> No.18608598

>>18608570
Meds or /x/ please, you delusional leftists.

>> No.18608612

>>18608556
Once again that's the point of view of a poor person. The loss of what makes you powerful is a greater loss than what makes you poor. You lose nothing in poverty compared to a wealthy person in absolute value. If we look at imperial Rome what sort of people have become the elite by the time of Marcus Aurelius? All the old patrician families have died out—this is what Augustus had tried to legislate against through natalist policies. In other words all these people who were nothing a few generations ago now command vast wealth, resources, slaves, etc. and the risk of returning to being poor is great. An aristocrat could never imagine being poor, no one has ever been as far as his family mythology is concerned. But the elite imperial Roman is no longer a natural-born aristocrat. He is peasant-born or an army officer. He needs to get rid of all this stress from aquisition that those who inherit never have. And that methodology is stoicism.

>> No.18608620

>>18608598
>calls himself a stoic
>doesn't even know what stoics believed
Typical.

>> No.18608621

>>18608570
I'm not a christcuck. Take your meds.

And yes, a stoic should be a polytheist.

>> No.18608634

>>18608621
>And yes, a stoic should be a polytheist
shouldn’t they be agnostic sonce we can’t know for certain and it’s out of their hands abyways

>> No.18608642

>>18608634
That's skepticism sweatie. The Roman emperor isn't going to tell you to be an atheist since then you can't worship him.

>> No.18608684

>>18607857
>>18608081
this comment >>18608570 prompted me to take a glance at stoicism on leddit, and boy does it prove my point

leddit OP:
>we are all wage slaves
stoic cuck #1 (+8):
>We need not be slaves TO the wages, though. If you aren’t content with little, you won’t be content with a lot.
stoic cuck #2 (+3)
>So what? you have to work or “wage slave” as you call it. You’re a human, are you not doing what a human was intended to do? We all have roles to play.
I still understand this attitude, but I have to say actual cuckolds are less pathetic than this. unless of course those people are small entrepreneurs employing cheap labour themselves (not that most of them won't ultimately get cucked by big capital anyway).

>>18608612
>You lose nothing in poverty compared to a wealthy person in absolute value.
I already explained why absolute value is irrelevant. a $100 bill for someone with an empty pocket saves his life for a couple of days. a $100 bill for Bezos is not even worth the dignity (and by far!) of helping him to clean his shitty asshole.
I don't disagree that the powerful can also adapt stoicism to help them cope with other things though. but today I'd guess they have other alternatives that work better for them

>> No.18608701

>>18608642
how could a Roman emperor be an atheist? His soldiers would slaughter him as their victory depended on the favour of the sky, as did the well being of the state.
Fuck off with this I'm smarter than someone who lived 2000 years ago, even the lowliest of slaves would overpower you mentally and physically

>> No.18608711

>>18608634
>>18608621
>>18608570
True stoics as in the Greek and Romans are panentheists.

>> No.18608722

>>18608711
What is your point?

Panentheism, Monism, non-dualism, Eleatic Being are just various forms of metaphysics for polytheists.

>> No.18608729

>>18608684
>I already explained why absolute value is irrelevant.
It is irrelevant if you are poor. The original Stoicism comes from a society so anti-humanist that you could own people, and the people you didn't own you bribed. So with that in mind who has more to lose? A slave or someone who literally owns other people and buys others off to maintain his position?

>> No.18608734

>>18608556
>"stoicism doesn't do anything
>stoicism does something
>"Stoicism didn't do anything, people did something"

Concentrated cope.

>> No.18608739

>>18608701
I don't think you understood me ESL-kun. I said agnosticism isn't stoicism, certainly not in a society with a state religion.

>> No.18608775

>>18608722
bro stfu, you're embarrassing yourself. By your definition, there are no monotheist religions. What would monotheistic metaphysics look like?

>> No.18608780

>>18608739
yeah I got you wrong, sorry

>> No.18608787

Why are leftists so utterly retarded bros?

>> No.18608794

>>18608775
Not him but usually with abrahamoid monotheism you get some variety of dualism.

>> No.18608814

>>18608729
I'm talking about today. on the other hand, many slaves still had a lot to lose: one with a decent master could in one day become a property of someone who tortures and rapes him every day or become useless for any work and starve. but I acknowledge that it was also easier back then for a powerful person to lose their power (now power can be easily distilled into money and taken with you to the other side of the world)

>>18608734
>Concentrated cope.
says the one coping by just repeating "stoicism did something!!" in order to convince yourself

>>18608787
yes, say the mantra out loud and wait for everyone to pat you on the shoulder. it's fitting for a thread about stoicism to be the coping central of /lit/

>> No.18608818

>>18604759
Stoicism is boring then you die. That's why it had to develop into something more sophisticated.

>> No.18608827

>>18604772
Absolutely based. This is true to this day. Upper middle class redditoids become stoic to cope with their first world problems and natural lack of masculinity.

>> No.18608828

>>18608581
>Stupid white trash dyke believes that Rome, the most large and expansive Oligarchy in Civilization could not have possibly have collapsed.

>> No.18608866

>>18608794
dualism refers to the perpetual change within the one. Yin and Yang cannot exist without each other, they are as one. Monism and dualism are essentially the same. If you were to defend one, you would also indirectly prove the existence of the other. An in Abrahamic faith would be the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Notice how the it is not the tree of good nor evil but both Good and Evil. Even though Christianity kinda fucks this up, Islam does a better job at presenting this.

>> No.18608880

>>18608866
You know Taiji exists, right? The undifferentiated state before ying & yang. But yes, dualism plus time integrates it, Evil dialectically produces Good by clarifying ambiguity into error & showing itself as refuted.

>> No.18608887

>>18608424
>capitalist stagnation in the West
Stop smoking crack - you honestly have no idea what you're talking about, and are trying to shoehorn your autistic worldview into Stoicism. Just stop, kid. Just stop posting.

>> No.18608899

>>18608684
>I went to reddit to understand Stoicism isntead of reading it so I know what it is now
Holy fucking shit leftists are retarded. And you keep going.

>> No.18608912

>>18608684
>stoicism is reddit tier
>I will affirm my beliefs by going to r/stoicism instead of referencing stoic texts
ngmi

>> No.18608915
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>I'll fill my shelves with funkopops and anime figurines and then I'll finally be happy
>I'll take the girl pills and develop gyno and then I'll finally be happy
>I'll spend 16 hours a day as a twitter crusader for trans rights and communism and then I'll finally be happy
>I'll cut off my dick and then I'll finally be happy
>I'll own the stoic chuds on /lit/ and THEN I'LL FINALLY BE HAPPY

>> No.18608965

>>18608915
The reddit tranny you're responding won't get the implication here since they think "happiness" isn't a ephemeral goal. Although, it is ironic they so harsh consumerism, yet, the same profligates are its greatest contributors.

>> No.18608966

>>18608866
Taoism is a non-dualism, so that's not really getting the point. With monotheism as it is traditionally (not autistoguenonically) understood you have a transcendent god apart from creation, divine separated from nature. It's dualism. Christian missionaries initially had difficulty preaching to the Chinese because they had no word for a single transcendent god.

>> No.18609248

>>18608966
If God, an all powerful being, were to exert his will onto his creation, would that creation not be an extension of his will and thus himself?

>> No.18609362

>>18609248
If I am an extension of God now you are basically a Spinozist and disqualified from conventional monotheistic tradition.

>> No.18609436

>>18604772
>Rich people don't suffer
Filtered
Go back, try to understand better the origins of Stoa and stop ignoring pic rel bio facts

>> No.18609526

>>18609362
Spinoza has yet to be debunked. What other form of monotheism is ontologically viable?

>> No.18609543
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>>18609526
Monotheism is counter-religion. Read Assmann