Louis de Maistre and Rene Guenon

[Anonymous No.18593028]

The fruit of ten years of research, drawing from a large number of French and foreign sources (English, American, German, Polish, Russian, etc.) which include both scholarly journals and modest occultist publications and works that have become Extremely rare, this book is not intended to be the account of a secret history - a contradictory expression in itself - but the history of certain secrets which form an important part of history itself. It is also an illustration of what some have called the "occult war". Leaving aside the doctrinal part of René Guénon's work as well as that devoted to symbolism, the study focuses on all the points which pose a problem in the career of the esotericist and which absolutely contradict the legend of a man who would have led a "simple life": Gnostic Church, enigmatic collaboration under the pseudonym of the Sphinx in Antimasonic France, affairs of the Order of the Renovated Temple and of the Poles, polemics with the International Review of Secret Societies, circumstances of its installation in Cairo, without forgetting the central question of its supposed “oriental masters”, not unrelated to the themes of Agartha and the King of the World. The criticism, carried out according to the criteria taught by Guénon himself, makes it possible to demonstrate that notions such as secrecy, conspiracy, “counter-initiation”, “wandering influences” and “psychic residues” made their appearance. very early in the career of the esotericist and strongly conditioned his later work.

If anyone knows or has anything to say about this book(and others from the same author, related to Guenon), please feel free to do so. Btw, the book has like 900 pages...

I want to make it clear from the start that I appreciate Guenon's work, and we should not mix his personal life with it, even he told us to do so. But this book seems very interesting and can't be ignored.

[Anonymous No.18593150]

>>18593028
By God, I need to learn frog

[Anonymous No.18593238]

>>18593150
Do it. It is probably the most important european language when it comes to occultist and esoteric works.

[Anonymous No.18593391]

>>18593028
Sounds absolutely fascinating. Is there a pdf floating around?

[Anonymous No.18593492]

>>18593391
I don't think so, you have to pay around 125$ on it.

[Anonymous No.18593524]

Such a book highlights the improtance of making a distinction between the person and thier work, It sounds fascinating. From what iv heard of it, it argues that guenon (whom the author is fond of) was influenced by the crypto-manichean tendancies of the sabbatian and frankist movements, and that this can be best shown in guenon interest in the 'myth of Agarttha'. I hope it gets translated into english

[Anonymous No.18593536]

>>18593524
>Such a book highlights the improtance of making a distinction between the person and thier work,

In most cases this division is a cope.

[Anonymous No.18593633]

>>18593524
Really? Does Guénon ever express fondness a kind of holiness through sin, libertine gnosticism? This kind of 'impure/left-sacred' seems like something he'd usually have denounced as satanic

[Anonymous No.18593646]

>>18593536
Guenon said that he would prefer to publish only anonymously but he couldn't because of the circumstances of our age, and that his personal life concerns only him. In a way we are violating his privacy but we must do it only for the sake of truth and his work.
>>18593524
I haven't read the book but there doesn't seem to be a lot of ideas which I didn't knew before, just a lot of details and information which is welcomed. It is true that Guenon was into topics which were popular among the occultists, like "Agartha", "Lemuria"(this terms are probably modern) or Atlantis and Hyperborea(this aren't modern terms), but there seems to be some truth about all of this so we should not reject them because of the "westernized" language or popular fantasies. We should also make a difference between the young Guenon and the older Guenon, in some of his early articles found in "Miscellanea", he used terms such as "gnostic" or "Demiurge", but the concepts are still non-dualistic, so again, is just a question of language and terms. An interesting thing, IIRC, was that in the introduction to the King of the World, Guenon said that some people criticized him for saying too much but he didn't believed so, and it sounded like he knew more which he didn't write in that work.
Anyways, it is probably an interesting book but it should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous No.18593650]

>>18593633
This would be also my impression of Guenon, but without being able to read french I cant assess the arguments made by this person for myself. I found a review of it by someone called Mircea A. Tamas, which just says that the book autistically obsesses over details of Guenon's personal life, which Guenon said was not related to his outlook.

[Anonymous No.18593659]

What do we think of Guénon’s obvious dualism expressed in his Reign of Quantity?

[Anonymous No.18593660]

>>18593028
pbuh

[Anonymous No.18593690]

>>18593659
We remember how Guenon told us to put each thing in its place, so we accept a certain dualism(tradition vs anti-tradition) but subordinated to non-dualism.

[Anonymous No.18593697]

>>18593690
The anti-tradition being that purely quantitative realm, matter and the movement toward this realm. But how does this fit non dualism?

[Anonymous No.18593717]

>>18593697
Why would not fit? The manifested world is related to matter. I don't understand your point and it just feels confused.

[Anonymous No.18593723]

>>18593650
>I found a review of it by someone called Mircea A. Tamas
post it, please

[Anonymous No.18593724]

>>18593717
Does evil have a reality or not? Does it follow that evil is not evil or what?

[Anonymous No.18593736]

>>18593724
Evil is real but only in the manifested world which is dualistic, the goal of all spirituality is liberation which is above the manifested world and is non-dualistic.

[Anonymous No.18593748]

>>18593736
So dualism exists only in the manifested world? Is there anything beyond the manifested world? In case of an affirmative response, we will still have a dualistic ontology of manifested and unmanifested, no?

[Anonymous No.18593762]

guenon and his plan of getting diluted into the primordial LCL has been refuted by the anime evangelion.

[Anonymous No.18593764]

>>18593723
https://regnabit.com/EN/member/files/download.php?ID=467&enabled=1

[Anonymous No.18593766]

>>18593748
In a certain sense yes and the aim of non-dualism isn't to reject dualism at all levels, since that would imply that is irrelevant if you are a degenerate or a sage who achieved liberation because we are all one and there is no evil. No non-dualist claims that lol.

[Anonymous No.18593815]

>>18593748
>we will still have a dualistic ontology of manifested and unmanifested, no?
In order for an ontology to be dualistic it has to set up at least two equally real realities. In Guenon's metaphysics, based on Advaita Vedanta, nothing else is eternal and completely real like the Supreme Principle, Brahman, is; so it's not dualistic.

[Anonymous No.18593824]

>>18593764
I read it, very based.

[Anonymous No.18593832]

>>18593524
Agartha is clearly real though, while Atlantis is not. Just very clean feeling when thinking about agartha

[Anonymous No.18593909]

>>18593659
I haven't read the book, which kind of dualism? Mind/matter, body/psyche, self/world, or another entirely?

[Anonymous No.18593914]

>>18593815
So what is manifestation?

[Anonymous No.18593922]

>>18593909
Yeah, quality vs quantity, spirit vs matter etc

[Anonymous No.18593990]

>>18593922
Does he place matter in the realm of quantity? Is it similar to the phenomenological distinction between the lived and objective body?

[Anonymous No.18594016]

>>18593697
Quantity proceeds from Pure Quality. Two sides of one coin. Like Purusha and Prakriti. There is only matter bc Spirit is aware of it. There can not be one without the other. They're interdependant and, at higher levels of manifestation, not distinct.

[Anonymous No.18594030]

The sinister implications exist even without this book, simply by reading Les sept tetes du dragon vert (Seven Heads of the Green Dragon) and its connection to Martinist order and Papus and what Yrjö von Grönhagen has written about the Green Dragon

https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/the-green-dragon-society-pulp-fiction-or-real-secret-society/
> It bears a cryptic inscription: S.I.M.P. The Green Dragon. You were absolutely right. Too late.

>S.I.M.P stood for Superieur Inconnu, Maitre Philippe, ‘Unknown Superior, Master Philippe’. Was Master Philippe one of the 72 secret masters? Regardless, Philippe was a French occultist, and an early spiritual guide of the Empress Alexandra. Her later adviser, the infamous Grigori Rasputin, was also linked to a mysterious group called ‘The Greens’.

[Anonymous No.18594035]

>>18593914
It's explained briefly in here

https://iep.utm.edu/adv-veda/#SH2a

[Anonymous No.18594041]

>>18594016
I agree, but that is a kind of dialectical monism. There cannot be any kind of difference-identity relation in nondualism as nondual consciousness cannot be anything other than this incomprehensible oneness that is somehow conscious.

[Anonymous No.18594045]

>>18593762
Retroactively refuted by the rebuilds.

[Anonymous No.18594050]

>>18593748
Dualism exists as delusion. When we mistake a rope for a snake, the snake doesn't cease to exists when we learn that it is just rope. Or we could say dualism doesn't exist at all and delusion is just error- incapable of description as existing.
These are largely matters of how the individual circumstances of a living being condition it in it's metaphysical journey.

[Anonymous No.18594056]

>>18594035
So Maya is responsible for difference, Maya also being different from brahman. Does Maya come from brahman or not?

[Anonymous No.18594058]

>>18594030
SIMP

[Anonymous No.18594065]

>>18594050
So where is the mistake?

[Anonymous No.18594069]

>>18594030
>>18593028
This is the early Rosicrucian symbol of Blavatsky she adopted as her personal seal

On the bottom right you can see the Dragon's Head, or Caput Draconis Lunae symbol.

Golden Dawn talk of this being the head of the "Stooping Dragon".

The 8th head of the Stooping Dragon was "blasted off" in the Golden Dawn system of the Fall and Aleister Crowley deals of this symbolism in his Liber 418.

Crowley also associated it with the Demon Choronzon of John Dee:
>For Choronzon is as it were the shell or excrement of these three paths, and therefore is his head raised unto Dath, and therefore have the Black Brotherhood declared him to be the child of Wisdom and Understanding, who is but the bastard of the Svastika.

The Three points are also referenced in the name "A∴A∴" who someone have misunderstood as being only a Masonic reference to Three Point Brothers, when it refers to the Supernals.

Freemasons are still called in French: 'Les Frères Trois Points (The Three Point Brothers)

[Anonymous No.18594082]

>>18594069
>>18594030

The relevance to Teddy Legrand's account in the Yrjö Grönhagen's book 1948 version is pic related

If you look closely, the Swastika is cut up in to 8 parts to signify the Seven Heads of the Green Dragon after the "A.N.P" and the most Secret Head, the 8th head of the Stooping Dragon.

The Eight Head is the Stooping Dragon.
https://coronzon.com/choronzon.htm
>The Fall is reproduced showing an eight-headed dragon/serpent

In Golden Dawn symbolism you can see the Eight Headed Dragon, it is said that it is the "leader" of the Seven or the intelligence of it

The text on that pic related page reads the same as on this page:
>https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/behold-the-green-dragon-the-myth-reality-of-an-asian-secret-society

>In the book, brother spies Nobody and Legrand are inspired by their common curiosity about the fate of the Russian Imperial family. The chief object of fascination is an icon on St. Seraphim, supposedly found on the Tsarina Alexandra’s body, which bears a puzzling inscription, in English: “S.I.M.P. The Green Dragon. You were absolutely right. Too late.”25 They quickly determine that the first element, which is accompanied by a six point “kabbalistic” symbol, stands for “Superieur Inconnu, Maitre Philippe” [Unknown Superior, Master Philippe], a French Martinist mystic who was an early guru to the Tsarina Alexandra.26 They also note the Tsarina’s predilection for the “Tibetan” Swastika as a good luck symbol. The rest of the story follows the duo’s efforts to discover who or what constitutes the Green Dragon.

Also it is interesting that in the newer versions of this book the Swastika is not cut into eight parts, only the old 1948 show this small detail (I have reissues of this book)

[Anonymous No.18594096]

>>18594082
>>18594069
>>18594030

It is heavily related to Nazi party through Karl Maria Wiligut and the Tibetan myth of Rahu/Ketu, the Demon Snake of Hinduism/Vedic traditions

>The myth of the “Black Sun” which was able to win a central place in the neo-fascist movement and displays similarities with the Tibetan Rahu myth from the Kalachakra Tantra, can be traced to the inspiration of Wiligut and his milieu among others

Wiligut, pic related, was the who installed the "Black Sun" murals to Wevelsburg. Yrjö von Grönhagen also details Wiligut in his book. The Secret King, the 8th Head was also related to him and the Nazi Swastika through Wiligut

Read the "Shadow Of the Dalai Lama"
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-1-08.htm

>Rahu plays such a prominent role in the philosophy of the Kalachakra Tantra that according to Helmut Hoffmann the events associated with him form a “darkness theology” of their own (Hoffmann, 1964, p. 128). The epithets of the dark demon alone have much to say about his psychology and proclaim his comprehensive mythic program. He is known, among other things, as the “enemy of the moon, subduer of the moon, darkling, flesh-devourer, lion’s son, the roarer, but also [as the] lightgiver of the heavenly paradise” (Petri, 1966, p. 141). He is also called “dragon”, “snake”, “eclipser”, and “lord of the darkness”. In the Hevajra Tantra it is still said that it is solely the consciousness of the yogi which brings the sun and moon under control. But in the Kalachakra Tantra, the Vajra master in league with Rahu pronounces the sentence of destruction over the two heavenly bodies. It becomes the task of the “darkling” (Rahu) to destroy the two shining orbs as autonomous forces, that is, to bring the masculine and feminine energies to a standstill.

Wiligut, who also called himself Ara-Hari Weisthor, was considered the "Secret King" of Germany (a title he conferred himself) and this Black Sun consisted of 12 Sig Runes

Wiligut inner circle (according to Yrjö von Grönhagen) consisted of 12 members. These included Rudolf Hess and Himmler among other nazi members.

Wiligut told Grönhagen:
>I am the last Jarl, Weise (meaning wise) Thor, the descendant of the great God Thor who is called Ara-Hari or Wiligôt. I have founded The Nordic Ring of Wisdom - Der Nordische Ring Des Wissenden - that includes 12 of my greatest disciples. Reichsführer Himmler is one of them. Another one of them is the dear friend of our Führer, Rudolf Hess.

(This is found in the Book by Grönhagen)

Wevelsburg was supposed to be an initiatic center remiscient of primordial center, or immovable center. This account is given:

[Anonymous No.18594099]

>>18594030
>>18594069
>>18594082
Its good to see you again green dragon anon

[Anonymous No.18594104]

>>18594096
The full implications of this Wiligut's identification of Thor is not also properly understood by many Nazi occultists

Pic related is the famous scene of Thor fishing the Jörmungandr/ Midgard Serpent or World Serpent is a direct reference also to Stooping Dragon and the Leviathan or the Seven Headed Dragon.

Both the Beast's head is an Ox head, and so is the Ox head used to fishing it. This might relate to counter-clockwise and anti-counterclockwise swastikas found on Wiligut's seal so as to activate the potencies

Both are fished up by Ox Head, now, the letter Aleph in Hebrew is also associated with the Swastika. It is also the counterwise and clockwise Swastikas that are represented in the Wiligut seal. In the occult traditions, they are sometimes considered the Active and Passive potencies

Wiligut and other occult forces were activating the Enochian Apocalypse of John Dee and Stooping Dragon, especially the Nazi Wiligutian Black Magicians, but I cannot prove this. Just my speculation when it comes to Wiligut's seal and certain other symbolism of his

What is sure that Stooping Dragon was aroused and bloodshed ensued, even Grönhagen ends his novel with the following words:
>Hitler is dead. Himmler has killed himself. All the others have met their Doom.

>But what about Weisthor? And the Wise Ring of the North? (Der Nordische Ring Des Wissenden)

>Is he still alive?

>Is he still spreading those teachings of madness to unsuspecting students or some other political parties?

>Will the World ever know who was his principal employer who wanted Men to destroy each other so fervently?

>The Green Dragon.

[Anonymous No.18594105]

>>18594030
As far as I know, Guenon broke up with Papus after the later made a speech on reincarnation or something like that. You could say that in order for Guenon to refute the counter-initiation, he had to be related to it, and he was indeed in his early life.

[Anonymous No.18594110]

>>18594041
> in nondualism
I question this notion. I don't see there being an inside/outside of Brahman. It seems more correct to say there is inside/outside of delusion. Inside delusion there is multiplicity, when delusion is corrected with insight union is realised.

[Anonymous No.18594130]

>>18594110
In (the doctrine of) nondualism. The problem is whence difference.

[Anonymous No.18594145]

>>18594082
To me this feels like exactly the sort of counter-initiation and degradation of sacred symbolism Guenon was against. The swastika I always took as a symbol for the 4 noble truths, the 8 fold path, the four castes, four yugas, the wheel of samsara in general, and the turning of that wheel.
In this respect I think Gueno's treatment of Buddhism is lacking.

[Anonymous No.18594163]

>>18594145
You don't understand the Revolutionary implications Green Dragon has and what it had to do with Revolution in Russia and even America for it also implies certain secret connection between East and West.

Counter-initiation indeed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dragon_Tavern
>On this spot stood
>THE GREEN DRAGON TAVERN
>The secret meet place of the
>Sons of Liberty,
>And in the words of Webster, the
>Headquarters of the Revolution.
>To mark a site forever as
>Memorable as the birthplace of American freedom,
>this tablet is placed by the
>Massachusetts Society of the Sons of Revolution.

For these Revolutions related to Green Dragon do not only concern America, but also Russia

>From the eternal sea he rises, creating armies on either shore, turning man against his brother, until man exists no more

[Anonymous No.18594168]

>>18594130
As I conceive it, non dualism (Brahman) is not a doctrine. It is the absolute reality that underlies all consciousness (from which (erroneously¿) proceed human doctrines).
Difference in the sense of multiplicity (¿) is a result of the error of mistaking anything as independent of Brahman.

[Anonymous No.18594178]

>>18594163
Help me out my schizo sounding brother.

[Anonymous No.18594198]

>>18594168
You can’t understand anything I’m saying apparently.

[Anonymous No.18594213]

>>18594145
>>18594178
Swastika is related to the symbolism of the Pole, Guénon writes about this in Traditional Forms & Cosmic Cycles. More than anything, Swastika is related to the Symbolism of Pole.

The thing with counter-tradition and counter-initiation is that it cannot be disconnected from the Primordial Tradition itself. Posters here have weird ideas about the nature of initiation and traditional religions and they claim things (that are in direct contradiction with Guénon's views) that counter-initiation has to be some sort of New Age pseudo-religious cult formed by Egyptomaniacs in the 20th century - or something along that lines.

In their opinion, anything traditional, like Catholicism, cannot be subverted or infiltrated from 'inside' since they are 'traditional' (even disregarding reforms such as Vatican II) and thus immune to counter-initiation.

In terms of Primordial Tradition, or what remains of it in more modern times, is according to Guénon and many other traditionalists still the well preserved in Shamanism and Shamanistic beliefs (especially, the Siberian and Mongolian Shamanism for its geographical considerations). This does not mean that Shamanism itself is the mantlebearer of Primordial Tradition in modern times.

Guénon writes:
>If we consider 'shamanism' properly so called, the existence of a highly developed cosmology becomes apparent, of a kind that might suggest concordances with other traditions in many respects, and first with respect to a separation of the 'three worlds', which seems to be its very foundation. 'Shamanism' will also be found to include rites comparable to some that belong to traditions of the highest order: some of them, for example, recall in a striking way the Vedic rites, and particularly those that are most clearly derived from the primordial tradition, such as those in which the symbols of the tree and of the swan predominate.

As for the degeneration itself in Mongolian shamanistic tradition, we can find some echoes of chapter VI of Genesis. Various legends speak of beings coming from the constellation of the Pleiades with the daughters of men. At the beginning the cosmology mentions only the Sky, the Earth and the Man conceived as mediator. Men must consecrate the appropriate places as "navels" of the Earth so that these are in the axis of the "navel of the symbolized by the Polar Star (a theme Common in Shamanistic Siberian cosmogony); this one being called the "Golden Pillar" and the Iron Mountain. If there are no real apocalyptic traditions in shamanism, there are however allusions to the the destruction of this world due to cracks in the Earth, but below the the Earth, and underneath the Earth are the Underworld the domain of Erlik-Khan

The inversion takes place precisely how Shamanism degrades into Sorcery, for in regards to the Three Worlds the communication to the 'divine', upper regions is severed and the communication assumes the one coming 'from below', through the cracks

[Anonymous No.18594223]

>>18594213
Guénon associates the agencies of the Counter-Initiation as the ‘Saints of Satan that are in Sufism/Islam known as (awliyāʾ al-shaytān) and they are the inverse hierarchy in contrast to All-Merciful’ (awliyāʾ al-Rahmān)

The master of these "Saints of Satan", is the Antichrist, Al-Dajjal.

Guénon elsewhere in his letters attributes certain geographical regions, traditions, to these counter-initiatic centres (that are for example dealt in the book "Seven Towers of Satan" ((René Guénon et les Sept Tours du Diable))

These Seven "Satanic Saints" are also associated with the Big Dipper (which is also known in India as the constellation Saptarishi = Seven Sages).

Big Dipper itself is associated with Swastika (because of the movement in the night sky) and their immovable center is the Qutb and the "8th head" of the Stooping Dragon (in the case of Saints of Satan, it is the Antichrist, al-Daijal.

In regards to counter-initiation, it is futile to understand what Guénon meant by it if one is not versed in mythology and certain geographical centres and for example how Voodoo itself was brought from to Haiti.

The Big Dipper and their locatins being the historical centres, but one should also provide insight how the Pleiades as the Seven Daughters of Atla play the role and the quite concerning symbolism how the Star Sirius and the the Blazing Star of American Freemasonry are also associated with Pleiades play certain role in these later counter-initiatic centres. One of the main centres was by Guénon suspected to be in California.

Many people here are totally oblivious to Masonic symbolism and especially how certain counter-initiatic oraganizations may adopt Egyptian relics and other psychic religious objectives to produce their Aims, as Guénon suspects in Reign of Quantity.

Even the American Revolution was conceived in the "Green Dragon Tavern"

Sirius is the 8th head of Stooping Dragon and any Hermetic Qabalist will agree. America is founded on counter-initiation, at least American masonry implies such.

[Anonymous No.18594233]

>>18594223

But to understand what Guénon means by certain transference from Great Bear to Western counter-initiatic center, we must also consider Guénon's other writings and especially America as the "Land of the Sun" or House of the Sun

>“Logos”, that is, God, and the idea of Light. As to the name of Avalon, it is clearly the same as Ablun or Belen, that is, the Celtic or Hyperborean Apollo, so that the Isle of Avalon is only another name for the “Land of the Sun”, which, moreover, was at a certain period transported symbolically from the north to the west, a movement that is in conjunction with one of the principal changes that occurred in the traditional forms in the course of our Manvantara.

But this is Hyperborean Symbolism, but the Catasthrope that struck Atlantis concerns West Island, and Atlas is in the West and America is a heir to such Catasthrope. Guénon writes:
>This transference, like that of the sapta-riksha from the Great Bear to the Pleiades, corresponds notably with a change of the starting-point of the year: at first the solstice, and then the equinox.

(these quotes are from The Land of the Sun[1]
by René Guénon)

The Pleiades, in Greek mythology were the seven daughters/heirs of the Titan Atlas

"House of the Rising Sun" = New Orleans = O.N

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliopolis_(ancient_Egypt)

>ts native name was I͗wnw ("The Pillars"), whose exact pronunciation is uncertain because ancient Egyptian recorded only consonantal values. Its traditional Egyptological transcription is Iunu but it appears in biblical Hebrew as ʔÔn (אֹ֖ן

Anybody knows this 101 Masonic Symbolism

But Heliopolis, as understood by etymology, also means the City of Destruction.

>They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).

[Anonymous No.18594238]

do not read Guénon

[Anonymous No.18594243]

>>18594238
retroactively refuted by Guenon himself, pbuh

[Anonymous No.18594247]

>>18594233
>https://issuu.com/astronomicalbookofrevelation/docs/heliopolis_pillars

> Two Pillars exist that have come from Heliopolis These twin pillars were placed in England and America.

There is also very fucked up counter-initiatic symbolism with this Heliopolis symbolism. Considering Bush was associated with the Destruction of these two towers

Bush was also associated with the New Orleans Floods of Hurricane Katrina.

New Orleans = O N = Heliopolis

The symbolism is too vivid to ignore. America is counter-initiation.

[Anonymous No.18594266]

>>18594247
>America is counter-initiation.

Guénon implies this, but this started who argument last time "GUÉNON NEVER SAID THAT! AMERICAN MASONRY IS BASED! THE FREEMASONIC TRADITION IS AUTHENTIC! IT'S THE COUNTER-INITIATION SHILL TRYING TO SOW DISCORD AMONG THE BRETHREN! HE IS BEWITCHING THE /TRAD/ BRETHREN!"

In my opinion, Guénon most certainly implies this even in Reign of Quantity by this passage:
>10. Before leaving the subject of the Great Pyramid, attention should be drawn to another modern fantasy connected with it: some people attach much importance to the fact that it was never finished; the summit is in fact missing, but all that can be said for certain about it is that the most ancient authors whose evidence is available, but who are nevertheless relatively recent, all describe it as truncated, as it is today; but it is a long step from this to the claim, as expressed word for word by an occultist, that 'the hidden symbolism of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures is directly related to events that took place in the course of the building of the Great Pyramid'; indeed, this is another assertion that seems singularly lacking in plausibility on all counts! It is a strange fact that the official seal of the United States bears the truncated pyramid, and over it is a triangle with rays, separated and isolated from it by a surrounding circle of clouds, but apparently intended to replace the summit. There are other decidedly strange details in this seal as well, and the 'pseudo-initiatic' organizations rampant in America try to make good use of them by interpreting them in conformity with their own 'doctrines'; they certainly seem to indicate an intervention by suspicious influences: thus, the number of the courses of the Pyramid is thirteen (this number reappearing somewhat insistently in other features, notably that of the letters of which the motto E pluribus unum is composed) and is alleged to correspond to th.e number of the tribes of Israel (the two half-tribes of the sons of Joseph being counted separately), and no doubt this has some connection with the real origin of the 'prophecies of the Great Pyramid', which, as we have seen, tend to treat the Pyramid as a sort of 'Judeo-Christian' monument, for reasons that are somewhat obscure

This is a footnote from the Chapter 37.

We can certainly talk about this topic, but as I said, last time I tried to talk about it the discussion was killed instantly by "Guénon was a (ex)-Freemason and held Masonry in high regard, therefore it is Good and cannot be counter-initiatory. Pbuh" or something along those lines.

[Anonymous No.18594283]

>>18594266
Guénon says in that passage:

>There are other decidedly strange details in this seal as well, and the 'pseudo-initiatic' organizations rampant in America try to make good use of them by interpreting them in conformity with their own 'doctrines'; they certainly seem to indicate an intervention by suspicious influences: thus, the number of the courses of the Pyramid is thirteen (this number reappearing somewhat insistently in other features, notably that of the letters of which the motto E pluribus unum is composed) and is alleged to correspond to th.e number of the tribes of Israel (the two half-tribes of the sons of Joseph being counted separately)

This is most likely reference to Mormonism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Freemasonry

Not only that, the similarities in symbolism and ritual of the Mormons and Freemasonry is extremely well documented and their reference to Tribes of Israel in America.

Aleister Crowley described Mormonism and the "revelation" of Joseph Smith and the angel Mormon this way:

>It was an insignificant face and form; but the attributions of him filled all heaven. In his sphere was primarily a mist which Iliel instinctively recognized as malarious; and she got an impression, rather than a vision, of an immense muddy river rushing through swamps. And then she saw that from this man's brain issued phantoms like pigeons.

>They were neither Red Indians nor Israelites, yet they had something of each in their bearing. And these poured like smoke from the head of this little man. In his hand was a book, and he held it over his head. And the book itself was guarded by an angelic figure whose face was extraordinarily stern and unbeautiful, but who scattered with wide hands the wealth of life, children, and corn, and gold. And behind all these things was a great multitude; and about them were the symbolic forms of exile and death and every persecution, and the hideous laughter of triumphant enemies. All this seemed to weigh heavily upon the little man that had created it; Iliel thought that he was seeking incarnation for the sake of its forgetfulness. Yet the light in his eyes was so pure and noble and magnetic that it might have been that he saw in a new birth the chance to repair his error.

In my opinion, this poetic description seems quite a spot-on considered in the light of Denver airport murals and other Globohomo-art and vision for the "Race to come" in America. Of course not all Americans might agree, but seems like the globohomo melting pot and more optimistic visions of channeling the future of America.

Theosophy's root races?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_race#The_emergence_of_the_sixth_subrace_of_the_Aryan_root_race

Personally I think this is disgusting. But this is what they want.

[Anonymous No.18594287]

>>18594283
Notice also the visions of Denver murals which are connected to it. If you look the picture, the children are mourning extinct animals such as Auk etc. And soon-to-be extinct animals

This is also a reference to soon-to-be extinct Root Race and the new race is to emerge in America, according to various Theosophical authors.

The American Race is soon to be dead-and-replaced by the new Emerging Globohomo Erectus

[Anonymous No.18594319]

>>18593646
shut the fuck up, guenonfag

[Anonymous No.18594331]

>>18594238
Thanks for the rec.

[Anonymous No.18594354]

>>18594283
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/3/18/22338011/salt-lake-temple-angel-moroni-dropped-trumpet-one-year-ago-today-where-is-it-now-lds

Just as the eartquake shook Utah in 2020 and the trumpet dropped from the hands of the Angel Moroni that is situated on the The Salt Lake Temple (probably the most famous of LDS temples)

It heralded extreme social chaos during summer (corona restriction and BLM riots, Trump losing, storming of the Capitol etc) in America. It certainly was as if the fifth trumpet had sounded for American continent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Freemasonry

The highest grades or well, organizational structure in Mormonism is also extremely similar to Masonry and it perhaps is/was a certain Masonic reconstruction of Christianity in an American setting. Also the masonic elements in Temple ceremonies of Mormons. It is interesting to note that many high level U.S Politicians are Mormons, but this just might be a statistical reality of the popularity of Mormons in America.

The Last Trumpet has sounded. Doom over America.

AMERICA - THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC 2.0
https://www.bitchute.com/video/dgsVgv2bf6Ia

Remember: Wiligut also rose from the ruins of Weimar republic >>18594096

Hope we do not see history repeating itself, somehow this current situation of 2021 in terms of "occult war" seems awfully similar to the milieu that happened in Europe during the early 1900s and what led to WW1 & WW2

But I do hope I am wrong

[Anonymous No.18594367]

>>18594056
>Does Maya come from brahman or not?
Yes, maya is the power of Brahman that is contingent upon Brahman and is considered Brahman's power which Brahman has been wielding beginninglessly, from outside of and beyond time. It is not an internal power that can be considered a part of or extension of the Brahman who devoid of parts, but rather it's more like the energy of maya that Brahman is projecting effortlessly and naturally. Brahman is considered to be omnipotent by able to project the universes, time, space etc via maya as an appearance that is non-identical to Brahman, and this omnipotence whereby Brahman projects the maya power/energy is non-different from Brahman's nature and is unalienable from Brahman, whereas the maya and all that it constitutes viz time, space, objects etc are never identical to Brahman and the things in maya and the experience of it are all non-eternal unlike Brahman and his nature which is eternal.

Attempts to mentally envision maya as somehow materially emerging from Brahman or as otherwise being spatially and temporally related to Brahman using analogies from observed experiences in the world are by nature never able to form an complete theoretical understanding of how it works because maya itself is the source of the perception of things like time, the three dimensions of space etc; and so the exact relation of maya to That which is ontologically above and transcendent to time, space, etc cannot be grasped in these spatial and temporal terms which themselves are only valid within and only characterize maya but not what is above maya and the way in which maya is contingent upon It.

[Anonymous No.18594427]

indian metaphysics is not refined or logical at all, it is just exotic. if you adopt it you are outing yourself as a pseud

[Anonymous No.18594440]

>>18594367
How can a thing’s power (its energy/activity) be contingent on itself?

[Anonymous No.18594456]

>>18593764
>https://regnabit.com/EN/member/files/download.php?ID=467&enabled=1
>“De Maistre” thinks that it is necessary to conduct a deeper study of the “problematic aspects of Guénon’s activity” (la nécessité d’approfondir les aspects problématiques de l’activité de Guénon), without telling us for whom these aspects are problematic and
why should we be interested in Guénon’s “activity,” an activity that, as René Guénon stated so many times, has nothing to do with his work

The problematic aspect is "Les sept têtes du dragon vert" of whom Guénon himself considered extremely sinsiter document for its implications

The problem rises that Guénon himself most likely was connected to the allusions and powers presented in that book

[Anonymous No.18594475]

>>18594198
Try again. How have i misunderstood?

[Anonymous No.18594493]

>>18594427
>indian metaphysics is not refined or logical at all, it is just exotic
Out of the hundreds or thousands of people, namely western scholars and autodidacts, who have both learned Greek/Latin and read the Greeks and other western metaphysics, and who also learned Sanskrit and studied the Indian metaphysical writings too, none of these people have ever said that the Indian texts did not contain writings, thinkers etc which were refined and logical, they tend to say the opposite.

"It is impossible to read the Vedanta, or the many fine compositions in illustration of it, without believing that Pythagoras and Plato derived their sublime theories from the same fountain with the sages of India."
- Sir William Jones ( 1746 – 1794)

[Anonymous No.18594515]

>>18594247
>America is counter-initiation.
You don't need all this astrological stuff and esoterics to see this. Most of the people who founded it were Protestants.

[Anonymous No.18594521]

>>18593764
It's funny how ignorant Mircea Tamas seems to be of the "Occult War" aspect that is alluded by Louis de Maistre in this introduction by OP

>>18593028
>but the history of certain secrets which form an important part of history itself. It is also an illustration of what some have called the "occult war".

Even Guénon reminds of this Occult War aspect

>The Revue Internationale des Sociétés Secrètes (n° of July 1) publishes, under the title
the title Occult War, an article devoted to two books: The Key of Dreams, of which
which we reported here a few months ago, and The Seven Heads of the Green Dragon
The Seven Heads of the Green Dragon, a story of espionage which we did not have to talk about, but where we did not have to speak about, but where we noted, when we read it, many suspicious details; on the one and on the the other, while starting naturally from a different point of view, we find ourselves, or once, quite in agreement with the appreciations of the R.I.S.S. - The number of July 15

It is impossible to understand the implications of the L Enigme René Guénon and the "Unknown Superiors" without reading Les sept tetes du dragon vert/Seven Heads of the Green Dragon.

I personally would also recommend Aleister Crowley's Moonchild novel that also deals with the Occult War that lead to the crisis of WW1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonchild_(novel)
>Moonchild is a novel written by the British occultist Aleister Crowley in 1917. Its plot involves a magical war between a group of white magicians, led by Simon Iff, and a group of black magicians, over an unborn child

The actual War soon followed. While both of these books are "fiction" there are actual persons involved from the European occult scene.

Mircea Tamas seems to treat this whole thing as pulp fiction, while those who have eyes to see understand the symbological value of these documents and the veiled manner it is presented to the reader

[Anonymous No.18594526]

>>18594493
>Sir William Jones
who????

this happens all the time. grecophiles will say greeks did not learn from anyone, indologists will say pythagoras, plato and plotinus learned from indians and some others will say they learned from egyptians or moses. numenius says plato is moses speaking greek. some others will say the brahmins learned from moses as well. you just pick your culture of choice and say it is the source.

[Anonymous No.18594535]

>>18594283
Why concern ourselves with the counter-traditional forces? I thought they're simply deluded. Its not like there is anything they can do against the will of the All-Mighty anyway.

[Anonymous No.18594551]

>>18594427
Good job outing yourself as a pseud who doesn't read.

[Anonymous No.18594562]

>>18594551
cope! my mumbo jumborayanavidinparauma

[Anonymous No.18594585]

you think exotic sanskrit words make up for wisdom as trump cards

[Anonymous No.18594586]

>>18594535
I am concerned about counter-initiation and counter-tradition because I agree with this view that Evola gives about initiatic and spiritual centers in later stages of Kali Yuga.

This Evola quote is from "Ride the Tiger"
>Since the West truly finds itself today ίη the soulless, collectivistic, and materialistic phase corresponding to the closing οf a cycle οf civilization there can be ηο doubt that the great majority οί facts interpreted as the prelude to a new spirituality simply belong to this "second religiosity." They represent something promiscuous, fragmented, and subintellectual;

>They resemble the fluorescence that appears when corpses decompose. Thus the currents ίη question should not be seen as counteracting our present twilight civilization, but as its counterpart, and ίί they take hold, they might even be the prelude to a more acute phase οί regression and dissolution. This is so particularly when it is not merely a matter οf states οf mind and theories, but when a morbid interest ίn the sensational and
the occult is accompanied by practicing evocations and opening υρ the underground strata οί the human psyche-as happens not infrequently ίη spiritualism and even ίη psychoanalysis. Here one may well speak, with Guenon, οί "fissures ίη the Great Wall," dangerous faults ίη that protecting barrier that, despite everything, protects every normal and sound-minded person ίη ordinary lίfe from the action οί genuine dark forces that are hidden behind the faςade οί the sense-world and beneath the threshold οί sound and conscious human thoughts. From this point οί view, neospiritualism appears even more dangerous than materialism or positivism, whose primitivity and intellectual myopia at least serve to reinforce that "wall" which, while limiting, also protects.

>Ιη another respect, nothing is more indicative οί the level οί this neospiritualism than the human mat~rial οί the majority οί those who cultivate it. While the ancient sciences had the prerogative οί a superior humanity drawn from the royal and priestly castes, today's new antimaterialist gospel is bandied about by mediums, popular "maguses," dowsers, spiritists, Anthroposophists, newspaper astrologers and seers, Theosophists, "healers," popularizers οί an Americanized yoga, and so forth, accompanied by a few exalted mystics and extemporizing prophets. Mystification and superstition are constantly mingled ίη neospiritualism,

I agree with these views fully. Especially about the counter-initiatic "false light" which Evola tells of:
>"They resemble the fluorescence that appears when corpses decompose"

People in the West (and maybe in the East too) thirst so much for True Spirituality that they will accept False Dawn. http://www.leepenn.org/FalseDawn_np.pdf

>"O ye who dwell in the Dark Night of the Soul, beware most of all of every herald of the Dawn!"

[Anonymous No.18594594]

>>18594586
evola was himself counter initiatic

[Anonymous No.18594657]

>>18594594
There is no basis to say that. It's like people accuse Guénon being an agent of counter-initiation for his early years in French occult scene.

Same way, Evola also dabbled in UR Group, Dadaism etc. and was even employed by Nazis. All this at first sight might seem counter-initiatic, but Evola was not some sort of agent of counter-initiation and understood what false spiritualism and pseudo-religion is, for most part.

Especially his observations concerning the (modern) world in Ride the Tiger are extremely lucid.

You can argue that Evola himself was not perhaps part of any genuine initiatic chain like Guénon was later in life through Sufism, but that is just smearing shit and trash talking about Evola if you say he was some sort of agent of counter-initiation despite his extremely hostile views towards neospiritualism, theosophists, astrologers, anthroposophists, popularizers of western yoga etc. etc.

He was true to the 'Hyperborean' ideals he cultivated most of his career. And hyperborea cannot be removed from the consideration of Primordial Tradition, that is Perennialism and what Traditionalist school itself is about.

[Anonymous No.18594659]

>>18594440
>How can a thing’s power (its energy/activity) be contingent on itself?
Because a thing is not different from its essential nature, but energy =/= essential nature. Advaita Vedanta partially agrees with Eastern Orthodox Christian theology in that they both hold that something's essential nature has to be treated as different from energy in an important way or there are too many contradictions that result, as opposed to Thomist theology whereby energy and essence are regarded as non-different.

Something like maya which is distinguished from what produces or irradiates it is contingent on that which produces it because the type of relative existence maya has is completely dependent on the sentient Entity who projects it. Without that Entity being there, there would be no maya. One thing that is dependent on another can never be identical with it. If a thing's power isn't contingent on itself but is instead non-different from itself, then you would end up arriving at all sorts of contradictions like the energy *that is* the world being comprised of non-eternal things subject to change, while God who is supposed to be non-different to that power qua world is eternal and hence necessarily unchanging, and so you'd be violating the law of non-contradiction by ascribing mutually exclusive things at once to the same being by saying God is both eternal and non-eternal, changing and unchanging.

>According to Vladimir Lossky of the neopatristic school, if we deny the real distinction between essence and energy, we cannot fix any clear borderline between the procession of the divine persons (as existences and/or realities of God) and the creation of the world: both the one and the other will be equally acts of the divine nature (strictly uncreated from uncreated). The being and the action(s) of God then would appear identical, leading to the teaching of pantheism.[28]

[Anonymous No.18594669]

>>18594657
are you telling me someone who writes on sex magic and pagan revival is a legit herald of tradition

[Anonymous No.18594670]

>>18594585
>nooo stop talking about anything I don't like, especially not anything that transcends the petty concerns of mine!

[Anonymous No.18594676]

>>18594670
>muh exotic sanskrit words are wisdom in themselves!!!! trust me bro!!!

[Anonymous No.18594700]

>>18594676
that's a strawman, nobody has said that, and in any case, what is the problem with discussing wisdom?

[Josef Pieper No.18594708]

>>18594700
wisdom is knowledge of principles, it is not the same as dogmatic axioms from indian schools. it also demands clarity and not obfuscation by foreign terms.

[Anonymous No.18594742]

>>18594657
He advocated a strange form of tantra and some of his writings seem to suggest something pointing towards blatant Luciferianism.

[Anonymous No.18594750]

>>18594456
>The problem rises that Guénon himself most likely was connected to the allusions and powers presented in that book
So the guy who spams the counter-initiatic stuff is now implying that Guenon was part of the counter-initiation... I think this was his goal from the start, firstly he tried to impress us with his knowledge so we can fall for this shit! Guenonbros, ignore this poster, he is an agent of the counter-initiation!

[Josef Pieper No.18594777]

>>18594750
the counter initiation spammer is counter initiating guenonfag's counter initiation spam

[Anonymous No.18594789]

>>18594669
If you cannot approach European pagan myths and especially Uralic shamanism without able to unlock the Hyperborean elements in them, I honestly feel sorry for you.

>If we consider 'shamanism' properly so called, the existence of a highly developed cosmology becomes apparent, of a kind that might suggest concordances with other traditions in many respects, and first with respect to a separation of the 'three worlds', which seems to be its very foundation. 'Shamanism' will also be found to include rites comparable to some that belong to traditions of the highest order: some of them, for example, recall in a striking way the Vedic rites, and particularly those that are most clearly derived from the primordial tradition, such as those in which the symbols of the tree and of the swan predominate.

Finno-Ugrian traditions comes to mind. Sami Shamanism is another.

I genuinely feel sorry for those 'traditionalists' whose only reference to Perennialism is Abrahamic traditions. Be it Christianity, Islam or Judaism, for even Guénon writes of their subordination to 'Hyperborean Elements' and those who consider the 'Vedic' as being the most closest to Primordial Tradition, when even Guénon reminds that the Vedic tradition had the beginning in:
>The current coming from the West was joined with another current descending from the North and proceeding directly from the primordial tradition, a junction from which was to result the constitution of the different traditional forms proper to the last part of the Manvantara.

And like Guénon reminds us concerning Hinduism and Vedic traditions:
>This is in any case not a matter of reabsorption pure and simple in the primordial tradition of what went forth from it at an earlier epoch; it is a matter of a sort of fusion of forms previously differentiated to give birth to other forms adapted to new circumstances of time and place; and the fact that the two currents then appear in a way to be autonomous can further support the illusion of the independence of the Atlantean tradition.

This is precisely how many do not understand the West-North influence that gave birth to Vedic tradition, and this confusion has led to the ignorance that some people here consider the Hindu traditions (as seen by many posters in this thread) as superior to 'Western', while the Hyperborean element should be the most chief and most dire concern to any perennialist. For even the Vedic ones consider 'historical' periods and subordination to the true 'primordial' center that is Hyperborea and it was in itself most originally from West-to-East with those elements mixed of what was left of the true Hyperborean traditions.

But then again, there is no point to argue with posters here since they cannot understand the difference between Brahmin and Druid and they would go to logical fallacies as to think that such influence has come from East to West. While it is case of West and North fusion in the East.

[Anonymous No.18594794]

>>18594777
Sacred trips confirm the presence of counter initiation

[Anonymous No.18594801]

>>18594789
and i feel sorry for anyone who reads evola. the poor man's guenon

[Anonymous No.18594803]

>>18594708
>it is not the same as dogmatic axioms from indian schools.
Where is the basis for your claim that the principles denoted by wisdom are any different from what is spoken of in the Indian writings, in those texts those teachings are debated and defended rationally with a great logical rigor. As part of his refutation of the Nyaya attempt to build a realist system akin to logical empiricism for example, the 12th century Advaita philosopher Sriharsa pointed out the 'Gettier problem" that bedevils such attempts almost a millennium before Gettier would in 1963.
>it also demands clarity and not obfuscation by foreign terms.
Nothing said here has been obfuscating, if you're confused, nobody is stopping you from asking questions or from reading online about it yourself. Your ignorance of what is being spoken of is not a good reason to ask two other people to stop having a back and forth, one should not try to impose the limits of ones own ignorance onto others.

[Anonymous No.18594804]

>>18594777
>>18594750
Now I am not arguing that. It is like saying Evola is counter-initiation because of his earlier association in early life

Guénon's paranoia about 'sorcerers' and 'black magicians' tell of different story to what degree he might have been involved in a such "Occult War" as alluded by OP and other posts here.

[Anonymous No.18594813]

>>18594750
kek

[Anonymous No.18594923]

>>18594586
Dude. I don't know why I'm detecting this tone of concern. Yes as time goes on things will continue to decay, both intellectually and physically until what the physicists call the big rip. This is of so little importance to the eternal journey of the soul that it should not concern you in the least. I don't know why you'd care about the inevitable breakdown of an impermanent, imperfect shadow of reality when behind the veil of (ego)death the Lord promises eternal good for those who seek.

[Anonymous No.18594949]

>>18594801
It really seems that way from what I've read. Evola just seems like a less intellectual, more mystical, irrational political being. Evola seems like a warrior posing as a priest. Guenon is pure sage/high priest.

[Anonymous No.18594982]

>>18594923
>I don't know why I'm detecting this tone of concern. Yes as time goes on things will continue to decay, both intellectually and physically until what the physicists call the big rip. This is of so little importance to the eternal journey of the soul that it should not concern you in the least.

What is there wrong to identify those influences of deviation which are presently seeking to, as it were, invade from below, through the "cracks", the spiritual domain of Tradition and create false centres of negation to disorientate and misguide contemporary man and lure him downward toward the inferior antipodal realm of the infra-human, the infra-psychic and the infernal, preparing the ground for the `great parody' of `inverted spirituality' which will hold sway in the Last Times?

Not all of these centres or 'true hierarchy' or spirituality are yet decayed totally (which is why the world still exists), for if they were, the world as we know it would cease to exist. But when they do: the world as we know will End.

[Anonymous No.18595012]

>>18594949
>>18594801
>Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

I've never seen any good critique of Evola here, most of the stuff concerns his 'persona' or making memes about him being in a wheelchair.

Evola has never been "refuted" in these threads, most likely people have read few passages here and there. Some people also like to liken the letter exchange between Guénon and Evola as some sort of 'Kshatriya vs Brahmin' confortation while it was a case of some French Sufi convert (Guénon) sending mail to an actual aristocrat (Evola)

Keep on making those memes.

[Anonymous No.18595051]

>>18595012
evola is a man concerned with transformation of the world. he is a crypto revolutionary. counter initiatic.

[Anonymous No.18595089]

>>18594982
>The world as we know it will end.
So? That will only mean a return to the golden age. Don't concern yourself with helping other people's souls. Thats their problem. Do your duty to help their body and cultivate your own soul's purity. You can purify anyone else. That said though, I suppose if your motives are compassionate theres nothing wrong with wanting to expose error.

[Anonymous No.18595109]

>>18595012
>I've never seen any good critique of Evola here
There is nothing to refute in empty mysticism. Its basically masculine hysterics. Where there is no reason there is no refutation.

[Anonymous No.18595389]

Maistre de Pizza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e5gTx1fVU4

[Anonymous No.18595631]

>>18595389
what would Evola think about that pizza?

[Anonymous No.18595634]

>>18595012
Probably because the single best critique of Evola is his willful ignorance. I’ll remind people that this is a man who was utterly obsessed with restoring “Tradition” and yet had no interest and wrote very little on the Orthodox form of the religion he was born into and which dominated his entire continent for thousands of years. There’s no real excuse for it but there’s also nothing there to refute as a result.

[Anonymous No.18595727]

The virgin orientalist author begging you to ignore his personality and the chad Buddhist attributing his works to Maitreya

[Anonymous No.18595738]

>>18595012
>I've never seen any good critique of Evola here
Because the thinking on /lit/ goes that 1. You need to read him to disagree with him but 2. No one who has read and understood him can disagree with him.