Studying Classics at university

[Anonymous No.18591312]

Hey guys. I'm about to go back to college after dropping out and NEETing it up for two years. I'm going to study Classics (classical philology, to be exact) for my bachelors (there's going to be less than ten of us, from what I've seen) and English-German translation for my masters.

What are your experiences like with Classics? I imagine it's not going to be the exact same thing as in my central euro country but it's probably moving along the same general lines, so maybe you could chime in if you have any experience or advice, I'd appreciate it.

[Anonymous No.18591418]

American here. I found it to be an enormous waste of time and didn’t even indulge my classics interest so I switched out. My only regret is that I didn’t drop out entirely.

[Anonymous No.18591419]

>>18591418
>I found it to be an enormous waste of time
How come?

[Anonymous No.18591424]

>>18591419
Because I dont know how to network or make friends.

[Anonymous No.18591428]

>>18591419
There was just no point to it. It became clear that there was no faculty position waiting at the end of it, there was no position at all waiting at the end of it, the education wasn’t even particularly good, and it’s not like I was getting to read what I wanted to anyway. All of that came at a pretty steep price.

[Anonymous No.18591450]

>>18591428
In my country university education is practically completely free as long as I work a handful of years in my country afterwards and my masters in translation should allow me to secure a decent living.

With these in mind, would you still say it's not worth it for someone in my position?

[Anonymous No.18591476]

>>18591450
If college were free or nearly free I might’ve stayed in classics. It’s not like there was a better option. It’s that in my country you have to treat college like an investment vehicle if you’re paying for it.

[Anonymous No.18591483]

>>18591450
>With these in mind, would you still say it's not worth it for someone in my position?
Honestly your Masters choice is pretty solid, it will probably land you some career for now. If you can get into that with a Classics bachelor, I'd say to go for it.

I am curious though. I am under the impression that in Germany, German is being phased out for English in most spheres. Do you think a English-German translation job is something you can make a long-term career out of?

[Anonymous No.18591514]

>>18591483
>I am curious though. I am under the impression that in Germany, German is being phased out for English in most spheres. Do you think a English-German translation job is something you can make a long-term career out of?

Sorry, I should have clarified. I'm Hungarian. Translation as a masters degree here works on the basis of you choosing two foreign languages that you're going to specialize in as a translator, for me that's English (my forte, I'd say), and German (which I'm better than average at). I could have chosen something like English studies as a significantly easier major for my bachelor's but it includes a lot of fluff that I don't particularly care for, like English and US history/culture. I feel like with Classics I can indulge in my personal interests much better while also having something of a specialty up my sleeve, and choose a major that is still decidedly focused on language acquisition, exegesis of texts, and the translation of those texts rather than superfluous cultural studies.

[Anonymous No.18591532]

>>18591514
Also, for the record, translation as a master's degree here includes both legal and economic translation modules for both languages chosen, so I'd say it would give me a pretty well-rounded skillset.

[Anonymous No.18591562]

>>18591532
And I personally doubt that unsupervised machine translations are going to make us obsolete in my lifetime, especially when concerning a language like Hungarian that machines have a lot of problems with still due to the grammatic difference and the significantly lesser flow of data in either direction compared to something like English-German or English-French.

Even if such a thing does come to pass - I don't doubt that it will, in due course - there's a not insignificant demand for dubbing-related translation, and translation of literature, which though is quite cheaply paid, will hardly be replaced by machine translations even when machines will be capable of translating texts reasonably well - I can't see fields with an "artistic" tinge to them like dubbing or translation of literature becoming automatized even when such a thing becomes an option.

[Anonymous No.18591602]

>>18591419
Different anon but I had a similar experience.

At the undergraduate level, your professors aren't experts in the classes they're teaching. They rotate between different topics under the 'Classics' umbrella, which as you're probably aware, is quite large. They often lack the context to explore and elaborate on the nuance of certain authors like Ovid.

If you insist on pursuing this, ask your professors difficult questions that you already know the answer to. If they answer, great-- get them to elaborate further and see where it goes. If they can't answer but can provide a starting point for finding the answer yourself, that's also great. If they cannot answer, provide a starting point, or god forbid give you an incorrect answer-- drop the course.

[Anonymous No.18591634]

>>18591562
One final thought. Unlike English, there's a significant amount of works from classical antiquity and medieval times that were never translated, like Plotinus, Libanius, Corippus, the lesser-known Latin epics, medieval chronicles and works of philosophy, etc. that I think deserve better than to be ignored. The works that have been translated are often versions without any helpful apparatus, with very antiquated language, made from old (like a century old) critical texts, etc. so it's hardly like there's nothing to really do with the Classics in Hungarian. Fucking Virgil and Ovid have been out of print since the communist days.

>>18591602
Thank you for taking the time. I see, that makes sense, though in our case I feel like the people I will study under are there due to being passionate about their subject - why else would they choose classical philology of all things? It's not a rite of passage for the well-to-do to study Classics like it is in the more old-school parts of the Anglosphere. Us students being less than a dozen in number per year is also going to significantly help with the individual amount of attention we receive, I think.

[Anonymous No.18591667]

>>18591312
Currently doing my Phd in classics in a frog university and I have to say it has been very rewarding. During undergrad we had to focus a lot on grammar, linguistics, and the literature of the time, and so we had little contact with contemporary political influences. As a result, we have been trained to think analytically and literary in the sense of the text, unlike my other colleagues in English or French majors who produce subpar articles on sociology applied to literature.

[Anonymous No.18591705]

>>18591667
Oh yeah, I did hear that your Classics (and History departments, especially the ones concerning themselves with medieval studies) are absolutely top notch.

>unlike my other colleagues in English or French majors who produce subpar articles on sociology applied to literature.

Yeah, that's a significant part of why I don't care for English Studies even though it would be a significantly easier major for my bachelor's studies. From what I've read, our Classics departments are still, for the most part, in the tradition of that good old prussian system of thoroughness and drilling of fundamentals - I'd much rather put in the work into something like that than write papers about the contemporary culture of the US or something banal like that.

Would you mind telling us a little more about what Classics have been like for you? Anything that comes to your mind, I'd appreciate it - what you study, how you study it, what your teachers and fellow studentsa are like, etc.

[Anonymous No.18591727]

>>18591705
>I'd much rather put in the work into something like that
I should have said that I'm much more willing to put in real work if it's for something like that than to engage in play-pretend sociology and MFA 101-tier work with literature that does not really interest me, that I'd find dull and meaningless.

[Anonymous No.18591784]

>>18591705
>Would you mind telling us a little more about what Classics have been like for you?
I hate to sound cliché but my professors, even the women, placed us deep into the Latin and Greek tradition and made us formulate the literary and rhetorical reasons with which the classical authors produced their messages. Of course there were a few young woman who had their heads shaved on the sides and men who agreed with anything a woman said in order to be laid but for the most part we were directed to the analytical reasons a classical author said such and such. I find it fascinating that you point out the Prussian influence on the Grammar Translation method. I suppose you have been studying and reading outside of you courses reading list? Nihilominus, you are correct in your judgement.

[Anonymous No.18591800]

>>18591634
>I feel like the people I will study under are there due to being passionate about their subject - why else would they choose classical philology of all things?

You can be a gifted art historian and anthropologist regarding the 5th century BCE Greeks and still have absolutely no idea what Homer meant when Ajax spurned the Olympians' help at Troy and was subsequently damned for it. Sophocles' Ajax plays off tropes the audience would've been familiar with, like the best of all men falling short of a weaker man who submits before and is favored by the Gods. I've had archaeology/anthropology focused professors teach literature and it was miserable.

You'll have a few peers who match your intensity and make the experience enjoyable, but if what you want is a thorough understanding of the Classics, you could spend a year or two reading primary sources yourself and then skim secondary sources. If what you're looking for is wisdom, this is my recommendation.

That said, I imagine being a uni professor is a comfy job. There are worse ways to make a living and pass the time.

[Anonymous No.18591937]

>>18591784
>I hate to sound cliché but my professors, even the women, placed us deep into the Latin and Greek tradition and made us formulate the literary and rhetorical reasons with which the classical authors produced their messages.

That's my dream scenario. God willing, it will be the same for me, too. I certainly hope so.

>Of course there were a few young woman who had their heads shaved on the sides and men who agreed with anything a woman said in order to be laid

That I can manage, I think. It's significantly less predominant here, though it's still somewhat present, especially in the humanities, of course. I know better than to not let sleeping dogs lie, in any case.

>I find it fascinating that you point out the Prussian influence on the Grammar Translation method. I suppose you have been studying and reading outside of you courses reading list?

I've been dabbling in it alongside my more plebeian backlog of reading material, so yes, and I'm having a blast with it.

I feel like it would be irresponsible to come in completely green when the semester kicks off in September. Even if it might be overkill, one can never be too prepared - I want to make a good impression (or should I say that I don't want to come off as a slacker) and I also want to ensure that I won't fall behind like I did when I studied biology (my original major before I dropped out - long story).

>>18591800
Oh, I see what you mean now. That can certainly be the case but from the online introduction the department had on facebook (due to the virus, the "open days" meant for people considering the major were held online) it seemed like the teachers had a good all-around knowledge of linguistics and history. They aren't super experts with worldwide fame but they did not come off as a department kept around solely for vanity.

>You'll have a few peers who match your intensity and make the experience enjoyable, but if what you want is a thorough understanding of the Classics, you could spend a year or two reading primary sources yourself and then skim secondary sources. If what you're looking for is wisdom, this is my recommendation.

Call me autistic, but I already have a massive backlog of Classics-related material that includes almost every author and the best editions of their works and history books that contextualize them, the best secondary literature concerning them (for the most part stuff that other anons recommended and what seemed to be popular and "standard reading" according to amazon), and just a lot of material that seemed as if it was too important to ignore or not read up on. Were it not for this board I wouldn't have heard about Werner Jaeger, for example, or Giovanni Reale. Thank god I have a kindle and can get most of it for free.

>That said, I imagine being a uni professor is a comfy job. There are worse ways to make a living and pass the time.

Certainly lol.

[Anonymous No.18591987]

>>18591937
If I may add something, I've recently read St. Augustine's Confessions and even though I'm not really religious it struck such a chord with me that I think I might just make his Confessions my focus when the time comes for me to work on my bachelor's thesis. He's so fascinating! He's at the crossroads of so many of my interests (late antiquity, Rome, Greek philosophy, the passage of time, introspection and soul-searching in literature, the inbetween world of declining paganism and emerging christianity), so beautifully written yet nevertheless philosophically dense, that I certainly feel like there's some interesting work to be done on him.

[Anonymous No.18592004]

>>18591312
How was your experience for two years as a NEET?

[Anonymous No.18592219]

>>18592004
There were certainly ups and downs to it. The best thing probably is that my family situation got significantly better, we're more financially stable than ever, with none of the toxic (unironically using that word) influences that plagued us beforehand. Home situation doesn't feel like walking on eggshells nowadays, it's more of a slow burn, not perfect, but nothing that I can't manage myself.

Another positive would be the time it left to me to consider myself, my vision of the world, and where I see myself in it right now and in the future. Solitude in the best sense of the word. I've read a good amount, learned a good deal, kept myself in decent shape, and I have a much clearer vision of what it is that I want to do, what I want to strive towards, and how I should go about it.

A negative would be, of course, the solitary nature of it - not to get into things too deeply, but I've hardly ever felt too connected to my milieu, nowadays that connection is all but severed. Nevertheless, that severance, that experience of being mentally unbound made me learn to be at peace with myself when I'm by myself, for the most part : it's not that I don't plan to establish connections in the future, after all, they are what make life truly worth living, but that I am significantly less needy, and that is a positive thing after all, I'd say.

Another negative would be the sheer time spent in such a way that I imagine most would see as practically pissing away one's most important years, and the disadvantage it put me at compared to my original peers. Since then I've made peace with this, too : I realized that hurrying to become another cog in the machine is not something that I feel the need to shed a tear over. This disconnection from most of my peers, I think it helped me develop a perspective that is unlike most other's, which I don't regret gaining : normalcy was probably never in the cards for me, anyway. Now, I feel the vague idea, or impulse of something in my mind churn, gather, and crystallize, as images, sounds, and tracks of various thoughts buzz by each other - if I'll have my way, I'll give them shape, through words or visuals.

I don't mean all that in a schizophrenic way, of course, it's just that I didn't mind the chance for contemplation, the stilling of my mind that NEET life gave me, because it brought me to be more attuned with various aspects of myself. Regardless of whether anything comes of it, or if what comes of it will be successful or a worthless failure, I feel glad that I've been given the ability and the opportunity to create something, too, something that others might find interesting or touching. All I need to figure out now is how to realize it. And make something of myself on the way there, both as a normie and as something of an "artist".

Now that I think about it, all that sounded kinda nonsensical, didn't it? Sorry. I really ought to become better with words if I am to ever use them as a medium of expression.

[Anonymous No.18592234]

I’m in a PhD program in Canada for classics. You probably already better read than I am lol. Anything useful has been largely self directed or studying languages with peers.

Saves me from finding a real job though so I’m comfy

[Anonymous No.18592324]

>>18592234
do not get me wrong, but is there any job you can do after graduating besides staying at the university?

[Anonymous No.18592332]

>>18591312
One bigmac with fries and a large soda please!

Honestly op, don't spend your time on or money on that degree, it is borderline worthless. You can read all the classics you want in your freetime. You're going to regret it big time.

[Anonymous No.18592424]

Translators get paid pretty bad wages though, it's close to McDonald's. Why would you get a master's degree just to be paid so little

[Anonymous No.18592430]

OP is obviously a plumber who has been fucking women in Ibiza for the last two years and bored wishes to translate Wagner into English.

[Anonymous No.18592433]

>>18592424
Where do you live? They're paid pretty okay wages here. Not IT level but certainly above McDonalds tier.

[Anonymous No.18592468]

>>18592433
I haven't worked at McDonald's but I have worked as a cook assistant and I made $11.50 an hour. Translators get paid per word or per minute of video, depending on the medium, but if you look at the rates, $0.10/word or $5/minute and think about how much time it takes you to do the work, it's not that much higher

[Anonymous No.18592480]

>>18592468
Since you specified dollars, am I right to believe that you're from the US?

[Anonymous No.18592485]

>>18592480
Yes, that's right

[Anonymous No.18592486]

You're gonna get a boring as fuck job with that degree m8

[Anonymous No.18592786]

>>18591428
How capable are you of learning Greek and Latin on your so that you are capable of translating yet to be translated texts and analyzing texts in the language in which they were written?
If you can't learn languages to this degree on your own, then you need a college education to get you there. Otherwise, you aren't a classicist.

[Anonymous No.18592860]

>>18591634
>One final thought. Unlike English, there's a significant amount of works from classical antiquity and medieval times that were never translated, like Plotinus, Libanius, Corippus, the lesser-known Latin epics, medieval chronicles and works of philosophy, etc. that I think deserve better than to be ignored. The works that have been translated are often versions without any helpful apparatus, with very antiquated language, made from old (like a century old) critical texts, etc. so it's hardly like there's nothing to really do with the Classics in Hungarian. Fucking Virgil and Ovid have been out of print since the communist days.
This is an excellent reason for getting into classics, anon. Unfortunately, there isn't great demand for these texts, or the demand is unrealized. Personally, I think it is unrealized demand. The classics are great pieces of literature that have proven themselves to be great by the fact that they have survived. People should read the classics first and foremost, and then, in a smaller part of their time, they should read newer works that have yet to prove themselves to be as timeless. I think it is the opposite is happening these days because the dominant culture teaches people to hate whites and white culture. In many people's eyes, there's nothing whiter than the classics, hence why it isn't pushed anywhere near as hard as Maya Angelou or Toni Morrison.

Regarding my comment earlier about unrealized demand, I think the perfect niche for someone to get into is classics hype man, something that I am pursuing tangentially. However, if someone can get in on this completely, that would be awesome. The way to be a hype man of the classics is not in the style of Mary Beard (let's talk about Roman streetshitters) but rather to be an unapologetic elitist who appeals to unrealized tastes within a section of the masses. You don't have to get them all to make millions. Remember that.
How the perfect hype man would function is not to be a translator or fulltime classicist. You want to be a publisher of print, visual, and audio media. You can do more than make your publishing house the one-stop shop for classics for the masses; you can host a podcast and do all sorts of promotion. Grow the classics, and by being the primary grower, you will have people primarily coming to you for content.

[Anonymous No.18592889]

>>18591800
>what Homer meant when Ajax spurned the Olympians' help at Troy and was subsequently damned for it.
Other anon here. Where do I learn these stuff? I mean this in-depth explanations.

[Anonymous No.18592986]

>>18592889
probably going to college and going to classics classes

[Anonymous No.18592994]

>>18592860
RC Waldun does this, or used to do this, or used to pretend to do this, but now he's more into the Dark Academia stuff

[Anonymous No.18593062]

>>18591312
I'm doing classics right now and its fucking bad. I could've learned half the stuff on my own. I should've known that when Latin/Greek proficiency wasn't required.

[Anonymous No.18593068]

>>18591312
>go back to college after dropping out and NEETing it up for two years
>to study Classics (classical philology
Universities are institutions of suppression of knowledge. The only thing they'll give you is some fucking credentials toilet paper.

If you want to learn something, Internet (libgen and youtube, more precisely) is the only true answer. That's how I learned philosophy, maths, programming, etc.

[Anonymous No.18593071]

>>18593068
Wrong. You need to go to university to learn how disciplinarity works. Once you've got that you can self-educate.

[Anonymous No.18593073]

>>18591532
>legal and economic translation
That honestly sounds like one of the most tedious jobs imaginable.

[Anonymous No.18593086]

>>18592889

[Anonymous No.18593109]

>>18592860
>How the perfect hype man would function is not to be a translator or fulltime classicist. You want to be a publisher of print, visual, and audio media. You can do more than make your publishing house the one-stop shop for classics for the masses; you can host a podcast and do all sorts of promotion. Grow the classics, and by being the primary grower, you will have people primarily coming to you for content.
This is an interesting idea, would you mind expanding on it a bit? How would someone compete with a more established publisher such as Penguin, that offers most classics already? I do like the idea though. Especially I think if such a publisher kept a consistent cover design (similar to Adelphi Edizioni, as opposed to NYRB for example) and extensive footnotes. It would be a very patrician and time consuming venture though.

[Anonymous No.18593124]

>>18591312
It's only worth studying if you learn Greek and Latin, which given you've specified classical philology, I assume you will be.

I found my language classes great. Small size, so you get good discussion and you actually get to know your lecturers. Stupid/unmotivated people drop out early too, so you end up with studying with good people in general.

Didn't really like my lectures for Roman history, lit in translation etc. after studying the languages - you just don't learn as much and the content is pitched lower. The lit in translation courses especially were a waste of time - it ended up mostly being the lecturer summarising the plot because they knew only half the class would do the readings.

[Anonymous No.18593133]

Sorry, you are too late. The Classics has been found by Grand Committee to perpetuate notions of white supremacy as has been eliminated.
The Classics curriculum now consists of black lesbian poetry.

[Anonymous No.18593581]

>>18593109
Hey, man. I was typing up my thoughts and realized that I was rambling too much. Plus, I stumbled onto some nuggets, if I do say so myself. I'm not sure how much I want to share openly because it could jeopardize my future success. I know this all sounds cunty and is not in the spirit of free exchange of information, but if you want to talk more, you can email me. From there, we can talk on Discord, if you like.
[e-mail]

[Anonymous No.18593651]

>>18591312
After dropping my original major, I was only planning to minor in classics, was told I couldn't cut it with the languages. But what do you know, I am pretty fucking good at them and am majoring in classics. I'm not the most classically focused student, also doing biblical studies, but I have enjoyed my classes. Just stay away from the blatantly lefty classes when you can. I've found that I can laugh off most SJW shit, which is always going to be frequent at a university like the one I attend (massive state school in the US).

I don't see why you are trying to pursue the English-German translation master's. Why pursue classics then? I know you said that you didn't want to take English or US history classes, but if that's the case, couldn't you find a more palatable master's degree? As someone else said, translation doesn't pay well. You can only make good money if you get lucky and find a company who sees it as a perk and has you doing some other job completely unrelated to translation or classics. I'm not trying to be a professor but rather an unaffiliated academic. When I see the students in my classes who are just taking the classes to get the degree, they don't seem to be having as good of a time as I am. I can't believe they're doing it. Why not do something else? Plus, I usually do better in the class than all of them.

Here's the summary. If you seek training/education, find something that is actually going to be meaningful for your career. If you choose to go down the classics path, be sure to learn the languages; they are the most important.

[Anonymous No.18593741]

>>18592786
I already knew latin and greek from high school.

[Anonymous No.18593833]

>>18591312
you can do all that shit for free with a library card you dense retard

[Anonymous No.18593921]

>>18591312
>>18592219
>dropping out of uni
>being NEET
>being alone
>for two years
>going to study Classics
>and English-German translation
I don't remember starting this thread.

[Anonymous No.18594070]

>>18591312
An aside but, STEM-fag here. Glad to see you got onto a course after dropping out. I've been wanting to do my msc but I've been too nervous to apply because I dropped out of my previous masters program after having a total breakdown and trying to kill myself.

[Anonymous No.18594153]

>>18591424
Same. I thought I could just enjoy the learning at least and then kill myself at the end but watching other people grow around me is the worst.

[Anonymous No.18594252]

>>18592324
Probably end up doing what two of my teachers did (who were adjuncts and unable to get work): go into analyst positions for the government

[Anonymous No.18594359]

>>18594153
I'm trying to on archaeology and on the digital humanities but I just seem to be left behind increasingly...

[Anonymous No.18594439]

>>18591937
Could you please share your backlog of Classics-related material or at least the most interesting ones as I have starting reading the Greeks and would like to know more. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.18594444]

>>18594359
>Are you an archaeologist? Come take a look at this bone for me.

easy as

[Anonymous No.18594459]

>>18594444
My preferred pick up line is, with the same set up, but different punch line:

"I have a large bone for you to inspect"

[Anonymous No.18594479]

>>18594459
Damn, that's good

[Anonymous No.18594486]

>>18594479
Digging with different bros (and chill girls) over the summers we came up with a bunch... nothing else to really do as your sweating away lol

[Anonymous No.18595758]

>>18592332
Imagine being born into a middle class family that views education as a means to be employed

[Anonymous No.18595887]

>>18591312
The Classics are a hobby, not a viable university degree field.

[Anonymous No.18595991]

>>18592332
>>don't spend your time doing what you love
>>get a job you hate just for the money
>>then you can read all the classics late at night when you have returned from you soulsucking business job

[Anonymous No.18596423]

>>18592889
>>18593086
No one teaches it. Those perspectives require a lot of context and appreciation that spans genres. Epic and Tragedy are often taught in separate courses and rarely do you get a Professor willing to explain context outside of whats required to meet the requirements on the syllabus at the undergraduate level. I'll lazily sum up what I meant with using the wikipedia summary for Ajax the Greater-- please read the associated works for yourself.

>Most notably, Ajax is not wounded in any of the battles described in the Iliad, and he is the only principal character on either side who does not receive substantial assistance from any of the gods (except for Agamemnon) who take part in the battles, although, in book 13, Poseidon strikes Ajax with his staff, renewing his strength.

>As the Iliad comes to a close, Ajax and the majority of other Greek warriors are alive and well. When Achilles dies, killed by Paris (with help from Apollo), Ajax and Odysseus are the heroes who fight against the Trojans to get the body and bury it with his companion, Patroclus.[8] Ajax, with his great shield and spear, manages to recover the body and carry it to the ships, while Odysseus fights off the Trojans.[9] After the burial, each claims Achilles' magical armor, which had been forged on Mount Olympus by the smith-god Hephaestus, for himself as recognition for his heroic efforts. A competition is held to determine who deserves the armor. Ajax argues that because of his strength and the fighting he has done for the Greeks, including saving the ships from Hector, and driving him off with a massive rock, he deserves the armor.[10] However, Odysseus proves to be more eloquent, and with the aid of Athena, the council gives him the armor. Ajax, distraught by this result and “conquered by his own grief”, plunges his sword into his own chest and commits suicide.[11]

>In Sophocles' play Ajax, a famous retelling of Ajax's demise, after the armor is awarded to Odysseus, Ajax feels so insulted that he wants to kill Agamemnon and Menelaus. Athena intervenes and clouds his mind and vision, and he goes to a flock of sheep and slaughters them, imagining they are the Achaean leaders, including Odysseus and Agamemnon. When he comes to his senses, covered in blood, he realizes that what he has done has diminished his honor, and decides that he prefers to kill himself rather than live in shame. He does so with the same sword which Hector gave him when they exchanged presents.[14]

continued

[Anonymous No.18596468]

>>18596423
I'll quote from Ajax directly now:

~Lines 750-784
This much I know—I happened to be near:
for Calchas rose and left the kingly circle
and came to speak with Teucer separately
without the Atridae; gently he placed his hand
in Teucer’s own, and urged and pled with him
to use all means to keep his brother safe
under his tent roof, and confine him there
throughout the length of this now present day,
if ever he wished to see him alive again.
Only for this one day, the prophet said,
will the goddess Athena drive him with her anger.
“Wherever men forget their human nature,
thinking thoughts too high, they are not helped
by bodily bulk and stupid° boldness; no,
they fall, through heavy disasters sent by Heaven.
Ajax, even when he first set out from home,
proved himself foolish, when his father gave him
his good advice at parting. ‘Child,’ he said,
‘Resolve to win, but always with god’s help.’
But Ajax answered with a senseless boast:
>‘Father, with god’s help even a worthless man
>could triumph. I propose without that help
>to win my prize of fame.’ In such a spirit
>he boasted. And when once Athena stood
>beside him in the fight, urging him on
>to strike the enemy with his deadly hand,
>he answered then, that second time, with words
>to shudder at, not speak: ‘Goddess,’ he said,
>‘go stand beside the other Greeks; help them.
>For where I’m stationed, no enemy will break through.’
>With such words as these that kept no human measure
>he won from the goddess hatred and fierce anger.
But if he lives this day out, then perhaps,
with god’s help, we may be his saviors still.”
This was the seer’s message. Teucer rose
at once and sent me off, bearing you these
instructions, with strict charge to keep them. But
if things already have deprived us of our hopes,
then Ajax’s life is done—or Calchas knows nothing.

Athena had it out for him after he refuses the Olympian's help in the Iliad. She takes further revenge by intervening on Odysseus' behalf to award him the armor. She intervenes again to save Odysseus from Ajax's rage. Ajax doesn't like, nor asks for, divine intervention in his life. So the Gods break him.

continued

[Anonymous No.18596501]

>>18596468

~Lines 665-675

For never, since I took it as a gift
which Hector, my great enemy, gave to me,
have I known any kindness from the Greeks.
I think the ancient proverb speaks the truth:
an enemy’s gift is ruinous and no gift.
Well, then,
>from now on this will be my rule: Give way
>to the gods, and bow before the sons of Atreus.
>They are our rulers, they must be obeyed.
>I must give way, as all dread strengths give way,
in turn and deference. Winter’s hard-packed snow
cedes to the fruitful summer; stubborn night
at last withdraws, so white-horsed day can shine.
The dread blast of the gale slackens and gives
peace to the sounding sea; and Sleep, strong jailer,
>in time yields up his captive. Shall not I
>learn place and wisdom? Have I not learned this,
only so much to hate my enemy
as though he might again become my friend,
and so much good to wish to do my friend,
as knowing he may yet become my enemy?
Most men have found friendship a treacherous harbor.
Enough: this will be well.

Ajax's suicide is, IMHO, terribly misunderstood. He doesn't kill himself out of shame or remorse. He submits to Zeus' rule of the cosmos, having previously rejected it in favor of his own mortal strength. He realizes that a divinely favored person will always triumph over men who forge their own path, and in one final act of will, takes his own life to deny the Gods' will.

if you said any this in an undergraduate class you would be politely ignored or labeled schizo.

the end

[Anonymous No.18596531]

>>18595991
Yeah but what is life when you only make $40,000 a year, especially with wife and children? Yeah you could get a lawyer doctor finance wife who makes the big bucks but it's the same situation, just fobbed onto someone else

[Anonymous No.18596824]

>>18594070
How'd the breakdown happen, chief? Regarding applying again, if you have work experience since then, applying might not be so difficult, especially if you explain you had unique problems that are no longer an issue. If it was recent, try reconciling with the program you dropped out of. Explain what happened and apologize.

[Anonymous No.18596851]

>>18591562
>And I personally doubt that unsupervised machine translations are going to make us obsolete in my lifetime, especially when concerning a language like Hungarian that machines have a lot of problems with still due to the grammatic difference and the significantly lesser flow of data in either direction compared to something like English-German or English-French.
It's not machine translators I wonder about. But considering that Hungary is a EU state and the EU is pushing for political unification and the usage of English as a lingua franca, how much longer will the non-English European languages be used? Will there be a need for translation in a Europe where everyone is already a (functionally monolingual) Anglophone?

[Anonymous No.18596862]

>>18596501
Uhh. In my undergraduate class we covered the basics of tragedy and epic. I don’t know where you went for classics but an 80 year old Sanskrit scholar who had tried to seduce my father 30 years before tried to seduce me and then my brother. They also gave out free wine. VQDTP

[Anonymous No.18597118]

>>18596862
>basics
Depends entirely on the quality of the Professor. OP is considering undergraduate study in the Classics...they'll be better served learning the material on their own and just answering the softball questions in undergrad for an easy A before moving onto the actual study of the Classics in grad school. Preferably outside of the U.S...

[Anonymous No.18597379]

>>18596851
Isn't the EU kinda on its way out nowadays? It certainly seems over the hill as it is right now. It may have started as an economic union but nowadays it's perceived as an institution that sees its primary role in quelling anti-globohomo sentiment and strongarming countries that don't follow the party line with economic and political sanctions rather than anything else.

[Anonymous No.18597392]

>>18597118
That’s why they allow high Ds (US high Bs) entry to doctoral programmes because they know some cunts think

[Anonymous No.18597468]

>>18597379
>Isn't the EU kinda on its way out nowadays?
I wish

> It may have started as an economic union but nowadays it's perceived as an institution that sees its primary role in quelling anti-globohomo sentiment and strongarming countries that don't follow the party line with economic and political sanctions rather than anything else.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they aren't powerful. And they are certainly pushing globohomo, and replacing languages with English is a part of that.

[Anonymous No.18597574]

>>18591312
The only reason to go to college now is to get job credentials. Study on your own time instead of wasting so much money.

[Anonymous No.18599041]

>>18596824
Happened at the end of 2019, bad time to leave university in retrospect. I had a few issues at the time, some related to money, health and others to relationships. The entire thing resulted in increasing mental health issues, lack of eating and failing to get any sleep which made studying incredibly difficult and obviously made all my stress and mental health issues worse. I passed the mid-terms but dropped out shortly before the end of first semester because my family were worried for my well-being. Thankfully I've found some relevant work to do during the pandemic, career-wise it's not where I want to be but it's better than nothing and it's sorted my money issues out at least.

[Anonymous No.18599237]

>>18596501
I really appreciate this. Fuck the people not thanking you for your insight. I actually read Ajax a few days ago (I'm reading all the plays for fun) and I didn't think much of it. Especially the end when he kills himself. I thought it was just a kind of Japanese-style "gonna kill myself cause honor" type thing.

I think what makes the plays so insane is how simple they are (especially in English) and yet so subtly complex. You really have to be an intelligent person in order to really get them. I'm really scared about how much I've probably missed in all the other plays I've read. QH0

[Anonymous No.18599748]

>>18594444
Checked

[Anonymous No.18600651]

>>18599237
Thanks, I appreciate it!

[Anonymous No.18600928]

>>18593581
No problem, I understand completely.
Sent you an email.

[Anonymous No.18601342]

>>18591937
>I studied biology (my original major before I dropped out - long story).
oh please do tell
t. majored in bio, masters in biotech and pondering going back to college to study philosophy since working here is terrible

[Anonymous No.18601509]

>>18593068
>philosophy, maths, programming, etc
I can only imagine to what level of competency (if any).

[Anonymous No.18601544]

>>18596851
EU resident here, English won't replace the local languages anytime soon.

[Anonymous No.18601668]

>>18601509
"Schopenhauer has argued that the university is inextricably compromised by the interests of the state, that this necessarily involves it in the perpetuation of the monotheistic dogmas that serve such interests, and that the consequent subservience to vulgar superstition completely devastates it; degrading it to a grotesquely hypocritical sophistry, fuelled by a petty careerism spiced by an envious hatred of intellectual independence, and articulated in a wretchedly obscure and distorted jargon that allows its proponents both to squirm away from the surveillance of the priests, and to hypnotize a gullibly adoring public <...>
This distaste has been fully reciprocated. One need only take note of Heidegger’s remarks on Schopenhauer to get a taste of the university’s revenge upon its assailants <...> What is at stake in both cases is not argument, however rancorous, but the relation of mutual revulsion between the academy and a small defiant fragment of its outside. Neither recognizes the legitimacy of the other’s discourse; for the university considers its other to be incompetent, whilst the part of this other—admittedly a very small part—that has seized and learnt to manipulate the weaponry of philosophical strife, considers the voice of the university to be irremediably tainted by servility"

[Anonymous No.18602671]

can any UK fags give me some advice. I hate being at Swansea and I want to reapply to go somewhere else (I know it's late, clearing just opened). I have some question and I can't find the answers online. Will I lose my place at Swansea for applying somewhere else? I hate Swansea but I don't want to stop my study for a whole year. Please help me guys, this year has been awful for me. I need some advice. How do I go about transferring or reapplying or whatever it is I need to do.

[Anonymous No.18602777]

>>18601544
Maybe in the case of French or Spanish, but I don't see German, Dutch, or the Scandinavian languages surviving as the main languages of their nations by 2050, and at all by 2100. English will take over.

[Anonymous No.18602879]

>>18602671
not sure this is the place for advice on that kind of thing. It would probably be best to talk to some sort of administrators at your uni

https://www.ucas.com/undergraduate/student-life/getting-student-support/changing-or-leaving-your-course